Time to go beat up Ganondorf

September 18, 2024 6:19 AM

A new Zelda game is reminding everyone to finish the last one [Polygon] There is so much any given player can do in The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. You can become the architect of the world’s largest bridge, engineer crimes against Koroks, or, if you want, you can just turn the sloping hills of Hyrule into Link’s personal skate park. It’s a giant game with plenty to do, so I’d forgive any player who, I don’t know, just so happened to not have completed the game yet. But now, with the impending release of The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom, anyone still playing Nintendo’s last Zelda title might be rushing to beat the game before the next mainline Zelda game comes out. Bonus link: Zelda is going full horse girl in her next game.
posted by Fizz (44 comments total)

Oh jesus I still haven't beaten Breath of the Wild. I have failed the muse of gaming many times but she always welcomes me again.
posted by jy4m at 6:41 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]

Thing with this game is that I don't find the story the most compelling part, so finishing is still far away. I started playing again recently, but I ended up spending time building the perfect hovercraft.
posted by lookoutbelow at 6:53 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]

I got hung up making houses for Link & never finished the game, might have to go... make more houses for Link
posted by taquito sunrise at 6:53 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]

finally, they made Zelda a girl
posted by Merus at 7:12 AM on September 18 [17 favorites]

The amount of grinding it takes to get enough batteries to do cool stuff in TotK turned me off to the game as a whole. At least the new game features Zelda as a playable character and isn't another re-skin of BotW.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:30 AM on September 18

finally, they made Zelda a girl

Breath of the Wild was (I think) the first Zelda game where you couldn't make Zelda a girl. The previous games you could name the protagonist Zelda or Arwen or anything else you wanted.

They only started making you use the ridiculous placeholder for the player's link to the game as the protagonist's actual name when they switched to intelligible voice acting. I guess we're lucky they didn't wind up making us use "Horse" for the player's horse.
posted by straight at 7:44 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]

>The amount of grinding it takes to get enough batteries to do cool stuff in TotK turned me off to the game as a whole
Did you do the Kohga questline? Are you exploring the depths? I feel like i accumulated batteries as part of playing the rest of the game, especially the depths.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 7:49 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]

Yeah I didn't know about the batteries for the longest time and once I figured out what to do with all of the stuff I collected I had enough for seventeen battery charges, since I had spent a lot of time methodically exploring the depths to reveal everything. Oops. I just thought that the devices only working for a short time was part of the challenge of the game.

I hated the depths at first because they were so dark and the music was so creepy so that made me want to light the whole danged space up.
posted by urbanlenny at 8:18 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]

Spoiler.
posted by signal at 8:31 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]

I've played like 200 hours of TotK and have no desire to complete the actual ending. I really like exploration and problem solving, so I've wandered everywhere, done all the shrines, done all the side quests, wandered some more... Like, 200 hours worth of that. But I'm not really interested in combat, so the only real task I have left to do is to go down into the depths and do the final boss fight. And I've been down to where I need to go, but I'm just not going to do the fight. It won't be fun, and it just means the game is over. That's the least interesting and fun part of the game, so I'm skipping it. I did exactly the same thing in BotW.

So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to the new Zelda game, but it's reminding me to do anything. :D
posted by mrphancy at 8:38 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]

And I've been down to where I need to go, but I'm just not going to do the fight. It won't be fun, and it just means the game is over.

I mean, it is a pretty satisfying cinematic experience you should experience at least once, IMO.
posted by pwnguin at 8:44 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]

I am so looking forward to playing this new game. I did "complete" TOTK, though I never could find all the caves. I think I was missing 5--I used all the aids, but still could not find them which meant I didn't get all the bubble gems so I couldn't see the final outcome for Koltin. I am a completist so that was driving me crazy. I did get all the wells and I fully lit up the depths (I'm retired, I have looooots of time on my hands). I wasn't that into building stuff but I did get all the batteries. I have been playing the Zelda games for around 25! years--started as a way to entertain my nephews and goddaughter. I love the franchise. The kids are all grown, but we all still play and share tips and stories.
posted by agatha_magatha at 8:45 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]

I literally just finished a playthrough of BOTW--although I had a sort of clear idea of the things I didn't want to do--like, I wasn't going to try to get all the shrines, was going to stay out of the castle, didn't want to do the final battle. I focused on getting the motorcycle so I could zoom around and race off cliffs and stuff. It was great to immerse myself in the game, although I found I really missed Ultrahand--I kept wanting to put things together. Meantime another family member is doing a TOTK playthrough and I'm realizing that though I miss Ultrahand and the sky islands, I do not miss trying to get through the depths, and several of the side quests. So I'm not sure I'll do another round of TOTK (or maybe I'd just jump into my last save?).

I wonder, of people who came to the Zelda games through these two, will it be weird to go to the new Zelda game? Like, I never played any of them before the Switch, and I'm not sure if I'd like a non-open-world as much?
posted by mittens at 8:47 AM on September 18

I much preferred BotW to TotK. I just hated building things. I don't play Minecraft either. There were some tweaks to TotK that I liked but adding that aspect ruined what I liked about BotW. I hope the new gameplay elements in Echoes of Wisdom aren't as tedious. I'd prefer just a game like Link's Awakening or Link to the Past where you play as Zelda instead of what I've seen but I'll probably still get it.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:49 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]

I recently replayed BOTW and segued into a replay of TOTK. Both are amazing games, but I have to say that BOTW just has more replay value for me. After the Great Plateau, at least, the game is nonlinear in a way that means you can do things in almost any order and it still feels "correct". And because the overall difficulty and to some extent your abilities (through the Champions' powers) vary depending in what order you do things in, replaying and doing things in a different order feels like a fresh experience to me. You also can easily decide, "This time I'll beat Ganon without any Champions" and it is both doable and a very different experience of the game and story. Add in Master Mode and you have a choice between two very different replay experiences: chill and relaxing, or challenging and strategic. I also just fundamentally enjoy the story and characters of BOTW.

On the other hand, TOTK, despite also being a totally open world, feels like it's trying to keep you on a linear track for much more of the storyline. I think you *can* do things in different orders, but there's a pretty clear "correct" sequence for most of the game, and replaying it feels more like repeating my previous playthrough rather than experiencing something new. Some of the story elements are great (I'll avoid spoilers for those still playing through), but some of it feels really flat to me, especially the Sages from the past who are literally faceless and nameless. And some of the most interesting bits of characterization are written in a Middle-English-inspired pastiche, to be intentionally hard to read. That said, the world itself is tremendous fun to explore, especially the overworld's cave systems. Having a posse travel around with you can be pretty fun, though I mostly prefer playing with them dismissed most of the time, and seeing the people of Hyrule trying to take a more active role in shaping their own destiny rather than leaving everything up to Link and Zelda is fun, even if most of them get their butts kicked by lowly bokoblins.

Anyway, needless to say, I'm really looking forward to Echoes of Wisdom. I was a little worried from the early gameplay footage that the first Zelda game with her as the player character would be a highly simplified, less-significant game, similar to how the Mario franchise usually treats Peach. But it really doesn't look that way now: it looks like it's going to be a great return to Zelda's 2D overhead roots while preserving the gameplay and story complexity of recent years. This should be very much my jam.
posted by biogeo at 8:59 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]

Yeah I feel like TOTK is more directed and linear, and somehow at the same time I also prefer to just tool around on side quests and little fights and stuff more in TOTK than I did in BOTW. I really felt playing BOTW that I was creating the story the way that I do in real life! Some of that was novelty. I do feel like building in TOTK is more boring and I lose patience when my design doesn't work on the first try.
posted by latkes at 9:45 AM on September 18

Nintendo will be releasing Echoes of Wisdom for Nintendo Switch on Sept. 26.

That's sooner than I realized! Exciting. But... is Echoes of Wisdom going to be a full featured game on the scale of BoTW / TotK? I got the impression it was going to be smaller.
posted by Nelson at 10:11 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]

I got the impression it was going to be smaller.

The non-spoilery previews I saw seemed like it was more akin to Link's Awakening, and probably uses an upgraded version of that engine? And I think I saw a scenic panorama showing Zelda on a cliff with Hyrule behind her that looked very Link to the Past in layout and size.

You ask if Echoes of Wisdom will be "full featured" but I think part of the realization here is that BoTW sized maps are just too damn big to push out one every other year. Hence ToTK reusing BotW's map -- twice! ToTK is like, a double feature AAA title. But they can't really keep pulling that trick and keep the franchise's trademark atmosphere of exploration and surprise, so it's gonna be a real problem for Switch 2 that they don't have a flagship Zelda in place for launch.
posted by pwnguin at 10:28 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]

I find it too heartbreaking to finish Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom (for reasons). Then I play random things on Game Pass for awhile with growing dissatisfaction (Assassin Creed Viking.... fine fine.... Far Cry 5... was this written by 15 year olds... Far Cry 6... I hope Giancarlo Esposito got some of the back end... Callisto Protocol.... why didn't they just give us a Dead Space game... etc). So what happens instead is I start playing all the retro games I haven't played in 40 years and you know, it feels good. But yes I need to finish those Zelda games (get off my back Polygon).
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:00 AM on September 18

I've played like 200 hours of TotK and have no desire to complete the actual ending.

The game's finale is there to give players something to build their state towards defeating. Looked at one way, the Ganon fight is there to give a reason for getting all the hearts and upgrades. But you don't actually have to do anything like that, if you don't care about winning. And I thought TotK had an annoying ending. For an "ending," it'd be nice if you could just roam around Hyrule with Zelda (along with Zelda) beating up monsters and finding all the secrets you missed before fighting the dang last boss. Maybe accompany Zelda on diplomatic missions. The two of you helping Hudson construction with funding and some construction. Tending the horses. I want a cozy Zelda endgame!

P.S.: Not to bring attention to anything, but it's nice to see Fizz back!
posted by JHarris at 11:49 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]

I haven't finished TOTK* but my kid has and I thought it was like BOTW where after you finish the game you restart just before the final battle and can go around and do whatever you want and maybe there's additional things to do now.

* I've completed more of the game than him but he's much better at fighting than me, oh how times have changed, so he went ahead and defeated Ganon. He's still creeped out by the Depths though and still has barely explored it.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:55 AM on September 18

I tried pretty early on to beat the final boss but realized I didn’t have enough stuff so I went back to collecting and sidequests and haven’t tried to finish it since…
I prefer the BOTW & TOTK design to this cuter, Game Boy, Lego-game kinda animation that this game seems to have but I’m sure I’ll get it anyway!
posted by chococat at 12:00 PM on September 18

I keep meaning to finish ToTK, but every time I start getting ready for the last fight, I get distracted and forget what I was supposed to be doing or remember something I wanted to do before the end. Most recently I decided to finish upgrading my battery and then head to the final battle, but then I was in the depths and happened to see Colgera, which is my favorite boss fight so of course I had to do that one last ("last") time, and then I had to cook a new meal to replace the one I ate during the fight so I went home to cook, and then I remembered that a few hundred hours ago I had decided to cook every recipe before finishing the game so I needed some ingredients for that, but THEN-

The best part is that this is my second playthrough. I did this exact thing the first time! I will never see the ending of this game!
posted by birthday cake at 12:00 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

engineer crimes against Koroks

What a double standard. Nobody bats an eye when Link orders cruise missile or drone strikes on Bokoblin encampments.

And then there's whatever treaty this low earth orbital strike mission violates.
posted by pwnguin at 12:27 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

I think you *can* do things in different orders

You certainly can! Because I'm bad at stories and following a path, I progressed to a point where one of the "quest givers" basically laid out what I was supposed to do next, and I'd already done it, "oh you did this!" Then they laid out what was supposed to happen after that aaaaannnd, "Oh you already did this!" This repeated three times. It was great!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:09 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

Youtube animation: Zelda and Link drive irresponsibly in Hyrule.
posted by JHarris at 1:12 PM on September 18

"Oh you already did this!"

Authority figures in Zeldaland wonder why they're even needed when the player goes out and does everything ahead of time. It's good that Hyrule has this elf person who goes out and does it all, considering how their ruler keeps getting kidnapped or goes missing all the time.
posted by JHarris at 1:15 PM on September 18

Seconding that the ending of ToTK is really excellent and worth doing, or even just watching a video. It has a stomach dropping lead up, some very cool mechanics, and even a couple laugh out loud moments.

I'm curious to see how Echoes of (The) Wisdom works to avoid the Scribblenauts problem of just using the same convenient item for everything despite your infinite toolkit. I've been enjoying the memes.
posted by lucidium at 1:16 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]

Dissapointing that Echoes isn't using the same engine and gameplay from Tears.
posted by Catblack at 2:00 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]

Maybe I should find a rom file of this game and get the Switch emulator running on my Steam Deck, I dunno, the only Zeldas I ever played were the Gamecube one and an emulated copy of the Gameboy one and that was before my "no more big budget games that make me be a white dude" and as far as I can tell you're stuck as a white elf dude?
posted by egypturnash at 2:20 PM on September 18

white elf dude

White elf twink. It makes a difference.
posted by mittens at 3:08 PM on September 18 [4 favorites]

I haven’t finished TOTK because I’m bad at video games and boss fights give me huge anxiety. But holy shit do I love some low stakes grinding. If winning consisted of getting to 999 baked apples I could turn pro.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:09 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

> I haven't finished TOTK* but my kid has and I thought it was like BOTW where after you finish the game you restart just before the final battle and can go around and do whatever you want and maybe there's additional things to do now

It is, that's what I've done.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:11 PM on September 18

I love love love BotW and TotK, they're pretty much the only games I play. This new one looks like it's made out of plastic and doesn't appeal to me at all -- I'm all about exploring and finding mushrooms, and this doesn't look like it will scratch that itch.
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:18 PM on September 18

It does look like it's hearkening back to a more traditional Zelda game formula, with a smaller overworld, discrete dungeons as progress milestones, and collecting things (in this case echoes) to use throughout the world. The look particularly hearkens to the remake of Link's Awakening for Switch from a few years ago. (The original Link's Awakening was only the 4th Zelda game made!) There's still differences though, it doesn't look like equipment plays a role in Echoes of Wisdom.

I think there's room for both styles of game. And how weird would it be if traditional Legend of Zelda games ended up staring the main girl exclusively, while the sprawling Breath of the Wild-style games became the new domain of TwinkLink?
posted by JHarris at 4:17 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

I want a cozy Zelda endgame!

Yeah, I would love a game where it basically starts out as normal LoZ, and then after you defeat Ganon it turns into Stardew Valley in Hyrule. Rebuild towns, permanently clear out Bokoblin encampments (with no more blood moon respawn), date all the various people that clearly want a piece of Link...
posted by biogeo at 8:06 PM on September 18 [10 favorites]

Authority figures in Zeldaland wonder why they're even needed when the player goes out and does everything ahead of time. It's good that Hyrule has this elf person who goes out and does it all, considering how their ruler keeps getting kidnapped or goes missing all the time.

This is basically canon in TotK - rumours of Zelda's personal bodyguard, Link, and his many accomplishments, are always ahead of the player character, who is often unfavourably compared to said bodyguard. On vary rare occasions, people actually know who he is.

Yeah, I would love a game where it basically starts out as normal LoZ, and then after you defeat Ganon it turns into Stardew Valley in Hyrule.

I kind of suspect this won't happen because Nintendo are not a company that puts any store on narrative - the Zelda games have excuse plots, and Hyrule is not a world - but I can definitely see then deciding that there's an audience for Animal Crossing-but-high fantasy.
posted by Merus at 5:27 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]

It's a bit infuriating.... Nintendo is a company that has a strong culture based around doing things their own way. I've described it as them having a bias against things they didn't invent, which I recently had confirmed by Kit and Krysta, two ex-Nintendo employees, who talk about why Nintendo platforms don't have an achievement system.

So if they end up seeing it as doing Stardew Valley in Zelda, it might actually decrease the chances they'd do it.
posted by JHarris at 6:32 AM on September 19

> I want a cozy Zelda endgame!

Man yeah, with all the quest lines that have people talking about the stuff they were halfway through doing with Zelda, I half convinced myself we were going to get an epilogue or DLC with her going about being Science Zelda. Hell, re-use the map again in a spin-off, let us tool about investigating the archeology and wildlife like it was teased in that one memory from BoTW.
posted by lucidium at 7:45 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]

The real Final Boss of BOTW is managing to get close enough to photograph every type of sparrow before they fly away.
posted by biogeo at 7:51 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I would love a game where it basically starts out as normal LoZ, and then after you defeat Ganon it turns into Stardew Valley in Hyrule!

Arguably in BoTW Tarry Town was your rebuilding / postgame content. The entire Tarry Town arc is basically a celebration of unity, peace and love across Hyrule. It could have been a real swords to plowshares moment, as Link explores his career options after obsoleting himself by ending The Great War.

And technically nothing stops you from playing ToTK the post game that way. You could become Hyrule's greatest chef, and master all the recipes in the game. You could become a biologist and photographer, documenting the natural world of Hyrule (but maybe don't think too hard about the hydrology). Sounds like most of you chose disgruntled Vet link, kind of lost in the post-war economy without a central government telling him what to do or who to kill anymore.
posted by pwnguin at 8:54 AM on September 19 [4 favorites]

But it’s not (if I understand correctly) any better after the final battle; everything that was wrong with Hyrule because of the great evil you just vanquished still is. That makes it possible to still play the game like you were before, but it seems like it would feel very hollow.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:54 PM on September 19

I still enjoy it. I'm powerful enough that I can beat most of the monsters who are getting in my way, so they're not a big deal. I, too, would like A Short Hike but set in BotW Hyrule without all the scary guys, though.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:03 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]

In the meantime, some people have been getting their 2d Zelda fix with a fan-made rougelike Dungeons of Infinity. Based on ripping off the artwork and music this one seems unlikely to live long though 😭
posted by pwnguin at 3:13 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]