Look Ma! No hands!
September 24, 2024 3:15 PM Subscribe
Leonard Bernstein conducts the Vienna Philharmonic without using his hands, via the always entertaining Futility Closet.
I would say an orchestra of the Vienna Phil's talent and character doesn't really need a conductor a lot of the time, especially when playing something in the standard repertoire. I would also say Bernstein was probably gripping his arms really, really tight to resist waving his baton around, especially considering the verve with which the orchestra was playing.
posted by lhauser at 5:38 PM on September 24 [3 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 5:38 PM on September 24 [3 favorites]
Reminded me how and why I miss FC podcast.
posted by charlesminus at 6:07 PM on September 24 [2 favorites]
posted by charlesminus at 6:07 PM on September 24 [2 favorites]
He did this all the time. I remember being struck (it must have been on PBS or something) when I was in high school by this section of Overture to Candide where he just kind of dances for a while. I can't find a clip on youtube but there's another performance of the overture where he slowly turns in a complete circle, back to the orchestra, while he's jamming out during the extended 3/2 section at the end.
It is 1000% true that in a piece like that Haydn movement the conductor is not there for time - there's nothing the conductor could possibly do that would be more precise than the orchestra using excellent chamber music skills to stay lined up (eg: baton makes no sound; bow of concertmaster makes sound; therefore play with concertmaster). At that level, at the concert, the conductor is there to egg on the orchestra to take chances and do something cool live (and maybe sometimes in music with more rubato than that Haydn, be traffic cop).
posted by range at 7:47 PM on September 24 [1 favorite]
It is 1000% true that in a piece like that Haydn movement the conductor is not there for time - there's nothing the conductor could possibly do that would be more precise than the orchestra using excellent chamber music skills to stay lined up (eg: baton makes no sound; bow of concertmaster makes sound; therefore play with concertmaster). At that level, at the concert, the conductor is there to egg on the orchestra to take chances and do something cool live (and maybe sometimes in music with more rubato than that Haydn, be traffic cop).
posted by range at 7:47 PM on September 24 [1 favorite]
(eg: baton makes no sound; bow of concertmaster makes sound; therefore play with concertmaster)
...except an orchestra is large enough that the difference between hearing the concertmaster play the downbeat, and seeing the baton hit the bottom, is just enough to make your Haydn sound fine but sloppy.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:18 PM on September 24 [1 favorite]
...except an orchestra is large enough that the difference between hearing the concertmaster play the downbeat, and seeing the baton hit the bottom, is just enough to make your Haydn sound fine but sloppy.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:18 PM on September 24 [1 favorite]
Hey I recognise that guy, the bearded cello player! From watching Bernstein conduct Sibelius Symphony No.4 approximately 67,000 times on YouTube.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:35 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:35 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
...except an orchestra is large enough that the difference between hearing the concertmaster play the downbeat, and seeing the baton hit the bottom, is just enough to make your Haydn sound fine but sloppy.
I mean, a modern full symphony is, but from the video this looks to be a parred down chamber orchestra, but it's hard to tell because there's no shot of the whole thing. But it sounds like one and makes sense as an artistic choice, because that's what Haydn was writing for. In fact, a really important thing to remember is that for a large chunk of Haydn's life there wouldn't have been a conductor standing in from of the orchestra waving their arms, it was largely the principle violinist's role which they would do while playing. A large part of what we think of as "what a symphony orchestra looks like" post-dates Haydn by quite a bit.
But honestly, a very large chunk of the conductor's work is done before and during the rehearsals anyway. Before the rehearsal they're making all sorts of decisions about tempi, articulations, etc. depending on their personal preferences and historical information and traditional performance practice, etc. There's a lot of research. During rehearsal they're communicating those decisions to the musicians and making adjustments based on the real world implementation of them.
That said, Bernstein's eye contact cues are right on, and he's being a hell of a showman for the camera, and all of that's part of what makes a great performance. I bet he spent a fair bit of time practicing in front of a mirror to get those cues and facial expressions visible and just right.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:43 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
I mean, a modern full symphony is, but from the video this looks to be a parred down chamber orchestra, but it's hard to tell because there's no shot of the whole thing. But it sounds like one and makes sense as an artistic choice, because that's what Haydn was writing for. In fact, a really important thing to remember is that for a large chunk of Haydn's life there wouldn't have been a conductor standing in from of the orchestra waving their arms, it was largely the principle violinist's role which they would do while playing. A large part of what we think of as "what a symphony orchestra looks like" post-dates Haydn by quite a bit.
But honestly, a very large chunk of the conductor's work is done before and during the rehearsals anyway. Before the rehearsal they're making all sorts of decisions about tempi, articulations, etc. depending on their personal preferences and historical information and traditional performance practice, etc. There's a lot of research. During rehearsal they're communicating those decisions to the musicians and making adjustments based on the real world implementation of them.
That said, Bernstein's eye contact cues are right on, and he's being a hell of a showman for the camera, and all of that's part of what makes a great performance. I bet he spent a fair bit of time practicing in front of a mirror to get those cues and facial expressions visible and just right.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:43 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]
Also a good principle player gives all sorts of visual cues with their body while playing as well, and a good section player knows to watch them, as well as who to listen to and watch across the orchestra. Not just for tempi, but dynamics, articulation, and phrasing. By the time a musician is playing in a symphony at a high level there's been a lot of work done on ensemble skills.
Yeah, modern symphonies have a conductor for a reason, the music they're expected to play is super complex, and somebody is needed to steer the ship around corners, but a musician in a prestigious organization is expected to be REALLY in tune with what's going on around them, nobody is going to care if you're playing technically perfect if you're not blending in with the whole orchestra.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:54 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]
Yeah, modern symphonies have a conductor for a reason, the music they're expected to play is super complex, and somebody is needed to steer the ship around corners, but a musician in a prestigious organization is expected to be REALLY in tune with what's going on around them, nobody is going to care if you're playing technically perfect if you're not blending in with the whole orchestra.
posted by Gygesringtone at 10:54 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]
Yeah just to be clear you follow the bow, not the sound. This is actually an good example of what I referred to as excellent chamber skills - performers with good chamber skills use visual skills a lot especially as spacing grows, all over the place. In big orchestras I'm regularly watching the bows and body language of the principal strings and the backs of the woodwinds' heads to know where to put stuff exactly.
One of my favorite examples of that is Paul McCartney at the Concert for George where you can see him staring at the mouth of unnamed-problematic-lead-singer from halfway across the stage for basically the entire performance of a song he had every right to check out of but instead he's doing his damnedest to get the harmony line synced up with the semi arbitrary placement in the lead line.
posted by range at 6:18 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
One of my favorite examples of that is Paul McCartney at the Concert for George where you can see him staring at the mouth of unnamed-problematic-lead-singer from halfway across the stage for basically the entire performance of a song he had every right to check out of but instead he's doing his damnedest to get the harmony line synced up with the semi arbitrary placement in the lead line.
posted by range at 6:18 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]
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