Elevate Me Later
September 26, 2024 7:59 AM Subscribe
Highbrow horror cinema has won respectability—but sold its soul. (slTheBaffler)
Horror fans, get ready to rumble with this article!
Also, Longlegs was perfectly fine but not the scariest movie of the year. Not by a long shot.
Horror fans, get ready to rumble with this article!
Also, Longlegs was perfectly fine but not the scariest movie of the year. Not by a long shot.
Yeah, "elevated horror" is such a ridiculous distinction for a subgenre. It assumes that most horror has nothing on its mind, no subtext, is just teens having sex and getting killed--something that was never the whole of the genre and hasn't even been the prominent form for years.
Night of the Living Dead was about xenophobia and racism. Nightmare on Elm Street was about monsters of the subconscious. Halloween was about the nature of human evil.
At the very least we have to reckon with "elevated" not necessarily meaning "good." Frequently it means "too artsy to stoop to being scary."
posted by skullhead at 8:17 AM on September 26 [12 favorites]
Night of the Living Dead was about xenophobia and racism. Nightmare on Elm Street was about monsters of the subconscious. Halloween was about the nature of human evil.
At the very least we have to reckon with "elevated" not necessarily meaning "good." Frequently it means "too artsy to stoop to being scary."
posted by skullhead at 8:17 AM on September 26 [12 favorites]
Not seeing a lot in TFA other than the author's nostalgia for the uncomplicated gorefests of their childhood/young adulthood.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:18 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:18 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]
Somewhere, someone is sitting down to pen an essay about how postmodern film criticism has crawled up its own ass and died, and just ruined it for everyone else.
posted by dragstroke at 8:24 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]
posted by dragstroke at 8:24 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]
I think there's room for "elevated" horror and fun gory horror. I mean, In a Violent Nature was definitely one of the most gory horror movies I've seen this year and it kept getting nudged as "elevated" because it's from the killer's POV. I mean, I guess?
Anyway, we can have both!
posted by Kitteh at 8:28 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Anyway, we can have both!
posted by Kitteh at 8:28 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
As I've said before: Horror, as a genre, is incredibly broad and always has been. There has always existed "elevated" horror (I do like how he mentions Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist but then sort of shrugs them off like they don't count. Also no mention of The Shining) and there are still plenty of low-budget gorefests out there (there are probably more of those than there are "elevated" horror).
I'm not sure what the point of this was, other than to say "These critically-acclaimed movies aren't what I'm looking for in a horror movie." And fair, but that doesn't make them bad. There are plenty of things I don't like that other people consider good. There's room for all of it.
posted by edencosmic at 8:30 AM on September 26 [16 favorites]
I'm not sure what the point of this was, other than to say "These critically-acclaimed movies aren't what I'm looking for in a horror movie." And fair, but that doesn't make them bad. There are plenty of things I don't like that other people consider good. There's room for all of it.
posted by edencosmic at 8:30 AM on September 26 [16 favorites]
Sort of hilarious that "respectability" could be an aspirational thing in Hollywood terms. As if anything except money has ever counted for anything in that world. Horror cinema was and is respectable inasmuch as it's cheap to make and bankable. This is a well-written article but the kind of respectability being discussed is a Potemkin village... it's pure PR without any real structure underneath.
Feels like highbrow horror is a category (much like Folk Horror) that is created after-the-fact, through the lens of some contemporary aesthetic. You can try to consciously make a film that lands there, but success will be more luck than judgement. If modern horror falls short or feels soulless, I'd argue it is like any other type of modern movie... Hollywood has their own terms for success, and quality as we think of it is simply not part of their equation. It's an accidental outcome now.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:31 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Feels like highbrow horror is a category (much like Folk Horror) that is created after-the-fact, through the lens of some contemporary aesthetic. You can try to consciously make a film that lands there, but success will be more luck than judgement. If modern horror falls short or feels soulless, I'd argue it is like any other type of modern movie... Hollywood has their own terms for success, and quality as we think of it is simply not part of their equation. It's an accidental outcome now.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:31 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
What on earth is this guy's problem? Like, I had my complaints about Hereditary, but who praises fucking Rob Zombie?
Putting Funny Games in the same sentence as Cabin in the Woods and calling them both "winking, postmodern, meta-textual horror"--he literally can't tell the difference between a fun date-night horror and a grinding existential implication-of-the-viewer horror? They both wink, I guess, but one nudges and the other shoots you in the face; they're going for entirely different kinds of effect.
And can I just say this? I grew up reading Fangoria, and 99% of the movies they salivated over just sucked. Horror is really, really hard. Much of it doesn't hold up at all, years later--tons of it can't hold up during run-time of the movie. There isn't a golden age of horror, because of this. The great horrors hold up because they do more than try to scare you. They try to engage your whole being, all your emotions. We may love Tom Savini, but can we really say his special effects stay with you on an emotional level? Meanwhile, Friday the 13th is laughable nonsense at this point, while I still find myself caring and worrying about the characters in Nightmare on Elm Street (maybe not many of the characters in the sequels). The torture porn movies got this wrong, too. Elevated Babadook deserves to last a long time, because it deals with people who feel real, emotions that feel real--tension and worry are so much more effective in horror than disgust or shock.
posted by mittens at 8:40 AM on September 26 [22 favorites]
Putting Funny Games in the same sentence as Cabin in the Woods and calling them both "winking, postmodern, meta-textual horror"--he literally can't tell the difference between a fun date-night horror and a grinding existential implication-of-the-viewer horror? They both wink, I guess, but one nudges and the other shoots you in the face; they're going for entirely different kinds of effect.
And can I just say this? I grew up reading Fangoria, and 99% of the movies they salivated over just sucked. Horror is really, really hard. Much of it doesn't hold up at all, years later--tons of it can't hold up during run-time of the movie. There isn't a golden age of horror, because of this. The great horrors hold up because they do more than try to scare you. They try to engage your whole being, all your emotions. We may love Tom Savini, but can we really say his special effects stay with you on an emotional level? Meanwhile, Friday the 13th is laughable nonsense at this point, while I still find myself caring and worrying about the characters in Nightmare on Elm Street (maybe not many of the characters in the sequels). The torture porn movies got this wrong, too. Elevated Babadook deserves to last a long time, because it deals with people who feel real, emotions that feel real--tension and worry are so much more effective in horror than disgust or shock.
posted by mittens at 8:40 AM on September 26 [22 favorites]
Yeah, that essay was a lot of words to say "Get off my lawn!"
posted by mrphancy at 8:41 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
posted by mrphancy at 8:41 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
I mean, I got to the part where they describe "The Stepford Wives" as a remake of "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" and... I just... what? That's such an incredibly weird thing to get so very wrong. They're based off of preexisting works, one a 1950s straight sci-fi novel and the other a 1970s horror novel by the same guy that wrote "Rosemary's Baby". I mean, yeah both deal with replacing people with simulacrum, but boy howdy are they doing different things with that. Also, it's a weird comparison because at its heart "Get Out" is a possession story anyway, which is the inverse of what changeling horror is about. Although, there are some pretty solid parallels between it and "Stepford Wives" about how the dominant power structure (patriarchy in Stepford, whiteness in Get Out) views those it considers below it in the hierarchy, I don't think that's what the author's getting at with the comparison.
I think that's my basic problem with this. The author likes a specific type of horror, but doesn't like the rest of it enough to do any research further than "is this fun for me to watch?", which is a valid approach for choosing movies, but not for writing think pieces about the history of a genre with tons of scholarly work out there about it.
(Also I think about "I Saw the TV Glow" almost daily since I saw, and all I can say is that there are different ways to be scared. Oh and the director did an earlier film "We're All Going to the State Fair", it's well worth watching).
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:41 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]
I think that's my basic problem with this. The author likes a specific type of horror, but doesn't like the rest of it enough to do any research further than "is this fun for me to watch?", which is a valid approach for choosing movies, but not for writing think pieces about the history of a genre with tons of scholarly work out there about it.
(Also I think about "I Saw the TV Glow" almost daily since I saw, and all I can say is that there are different ways to be scared. Oh and the director did an earlier film "We're All Going to the State Fair", it's well worth watching).
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:41 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]
Oh! Oh! I would like to add that, for me anyway, horror movies regardless should be enjoyable. Like, I just can't with the torture porn genre (I haven't seen the Terrifier films because my fave gay-hosted horror podcast watched the first one and couldn't get past what sounds like a VERY misogynistic kill and yeah I don't wanna see that).
As much as I do love Midsommar (the very long director's cut was worth it to see in a theatre, imo), Hereditary, and the like, those are the kinds of horror movies that people who don't generally see horror movies go to because it doesn't feel like "bad taste" to them.
posted by Kitteh at 8:41 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
As much as I do love Midsommar (the very long director's cut was worth it to see in a theatre, imo), Hereditary, and the like, those are the kinds of horror movies that people who don't generally see horror movies go to because it doesn't feel like "bad taste" to them.
posted by Kitteh at 8:41 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
"Welp, the thing I liked is different now, so it's bad. Time to bury it." is an evergreen op-ed format.
The best horror movie I have seen this year is Oddity.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:42 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
The best horror movie I have seen this year is Oddity.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:42 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
Longlegs failed on every single level for me so I'm VERY skeptical of hype surrounding horror flicks.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:45 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:45 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Oh, and the fact that neither "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" or "Barbarian" are brought up seems like a big omission considering the theme of "violence and gore" vs "having a message".
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:47 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:47 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
The best horror movie I have seen this year is Oddity.
DOT, tell me where you think it would fit in with Shepherd's October watch calendar over in FanFare chat. I would like to see it too!
posted by Kitteh at 8:48 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
DOT, tell me where you think it would fit in with Shepherd's October watch calendar over in FanFare chat. I would like to see it too!
posted by Kitteh at 8:48 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Trying to explain the Terrifier films to people who haven't seen them as not being "torture porn" trash is like trying to recount an Anthony Jeselnik joke to someone who doesn't know who he is or what his deal is. There's such an easy path to finger wagging that so often, it's just not worth even explaining the actual sophistication of what's happening and why it's not what people who do not get it say that it is.
(Someone just got mad that I suggested Anthony Jeselnik might not be trash, too. Guaranteed.)
Certain transgressive art lends itself to being evaluated with maximum moral absolutism and zero nuance for some folks. It's just not worth the expenditure of energy to even push back against. Just let folks go watch something else.
If they want to believe I spend part of my time like watching Criterion films and part of my time cheering misogynist butchery, and that makes more sense to them than "Maybe I missed something" it's no skin off my back.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:55 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
(Someone just got mad that I suggested Anthony Jeselnik might not be trash, too. Guaranteed.)
Certain transgressive art lends itself to being evaluated with maximum moral absolutism and zero nuance for some folks. It's just not worth the expenditure of energy to even push back against. Just let folks go watch something else.
If they want to believe I spend part of my time like watching Criterion films and part of my time cheering misogynist butchery, and that makes more sense to them than "Maybe I missed something" it's no skin off my back.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:55 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
That was a weirdly aggressive comment towards me for some reason.
posted by Kitteh at 9:01 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:01 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
In conclusion, horror is a land of contrasts.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:03 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
posted by slimepuppy at 9:03 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
That was a weirdly aggressive comment towards me for some reason.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean it to be. I mean that it gets old having it explained to me why liking this movie or that one seems like something is wrong with me. I get how people form different opinions on movies (seen or unseen) than I hold myself. I wish I still had the energy to try and change their minds when we land that far apart but I just don't anymore.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry. I didn't mean it to be. I mean that it gets old having it explained to me why liking this movie or that one seems like something is wrong with me. I get how people form different opinions on movies (seen or unseen) than I hold myself. I wish I still had the energy to try and change their minds when we land that far apart but I just don't anymore.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Well, the author is implying that, for sure. I am not. Some movies aren't my bag and some movies I love aren't others' bag so I dunno?
posted by Kitteh at 9:10 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:10 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Also, I bet this guy would HATE The Substance. I liked it but it was sooooo unexpectedly gory.
posted by Kitteh at 9:12 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 9:12 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Gygesringtone, I thought the same thing on my first reading, but I believe you're experiencing a parsing error. Adding bullet points to the comma-list in the sentence in question:
"Get Out was a wickedly funny satire drawing equally from
* Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956) and its 1978 remake,
* The Stepford Wives (1972), plus
* that Eddie Murphy joke about how black people would react if plunked into a haunted house movie (“I got the fuck out”)."
posted by Blorg at 9:18 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
"Get Out was a wickedly funny satire drawing equally from
* Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956) and its 1978 remake,
* The Stepford Wives (1972), plus
* that Eddie Murphy joke about how black people would react if plunked into a haunted house movie (“I got the fuck out”)."
posted by Blorg at 9:18 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
Also, big ups to the page title, Kitteh. My kiddo and I just saw Pavement at Riot Fest this weekend and experienced a singalong father/son nerd bonding moment like few others outside of, well, horror movies.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:23 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:23 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
Yeah, that essay was a lot of words to say "Get off my lawn!"
Yeah, it does feel that way. The author has this idea of "real" horror being what they like and "fake" horror being what they don't, and it all feels so snobbish it reminds me of Mean Girls ("you can't sit here"). What purpose does an article like this serve, being exclusionary in a genre which has traditionally been looked down upon? (In a perfect world fans would be more welcoming.)
In horror there's room for everything from Cannibal Holocaust and Terrifier to Rosemary's Baby and The Menu. It's not all for everyone, and that is fine. There are entire aisles in the grocery store I never go down. It's still there for a reason, serving someone.
posted by johnofjack at 9:39 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Yeah, it does feel that way. The author has this idea of "real" horror being what they like and "fake" horror being what they don't, and it all feels so snobbish it reminds me of Mean Girls ("you can't sit here"). What purpose does an article like this serve, being exclusionary in a genre which has traditionally been looked down upon? (In a perfect world fans would be more welcoming.)
In horror there's room for everything from Cannibal Holocaust and Terrifier to Rosemary's Baby and The Menu. It's not all for everyone, and that is fine. There are entire aisles in the grocery store I never go down. It's still there for a reason, serving someone.
posted by johnofjack at 9:39 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
who praises fucking Rob Zombie?
Hellbillys.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:39 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
Hellbillys.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:39 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
(I do think, more than a lot of other genres, people have hard lines when it comes to horror. My issues are not your issues and the things that disturb me aren't always going to be the things that disturb you. There are definitely horror movies I'm sure are great but fall into the category of "not for me." I never give blanket recommendations for things anyway, but when it comes to horror, I'm extra careful to make sure the person will enjoy it rather than come away upset.)
posted by edencosmic at 9:43 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
posted by edencosmic at 9:43 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
I've tried watching the first two Halloween remakes by Rob Zombie and I will say this: I respect the passion he has for horror movies but his versions just don't land with me very well.
posted by Kitteh at 9:44 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:44 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
The byline points out the author also wrote Hater: On the Virtues of Utter Disagreeability: "Hater begins from a simple premise: that it's good to hate things. Not people or groups or benign belief systems, but things. More to the point, it's good to hate the things everyone seems to like."
That seems a bit on the nose here, but I agree with DOT's recommendation of Oddity (2024)--loved it. Its structure reminded of classic ghost stories, you know, with a frame story and some sting to them and whatnot, like E. Nesbit's "The Shadow" or Edith Wharton's "Afterward"--except modern and scary.
Re: other recent horror movies that are just pretty nice but good if you're into very morbid situations handled with very understated comedy, the title of Humanist Vampire Seeking Consenting Suicidal Person (2023) had me worried it would be gut-wrenching but no--it's sweet low-key comedy-horror basically along the lines of an episode of What We Do in the Shadows.
I also liked The Vourdalak (2023), which I thought was significantly better than the 1839 short story it's based on, "The Family of the Vourdalak." It's a low-key historical film yet also nearly a parody of historical films: a young French noble in a tricorne hat lodges with an eastern European family and falls in love with a young woman, and that much gives 'arthouse historical' vibes. But then there's the very creepy and almost smart-alecky old vampire patriarch of the family ...
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:48 AM on September 26 [9 favorites]
That seems a bit on the nose here, but I agree with DOT's recommendation of Oddity (2024)--loved it. Its structure reminded of classic ghost stories, you know, with a frame story and some sting to them and whatnot, like E. Nesbit's "The Shadow" or Edith Wharton's "Afterward"--except modern and scary.
Re: other recent horror movies that are just pretty nice but good if you're into very morbid situations handled with very understated comedy, the title of Humanist Vampire Seeking Consenting Suicidal Person (2023) had me worried it would be gut-wrenching but no--it's sweet low-key comedy-horror basically along the lines of an episode of What We Do in the Shadows.
I also liked The Vourdalak (2023), which I thought was significantly better than the 1839 short story it's based on, "The Family of the Vourdalak." It's a low-key historical film yet also nearly a parody of historical films: a young French noble in a tricorne hat lodges with an eastern European family and falls in love with a young woman, and that much gives 'arthouse historical' vibes. But then there's the very creepy and almost smart-alecky old vampire patriarch of the family ...
posted by Wobbuffet at 9:48 AM on September 26 [9 favorites]
Re: other recent horror movies that are just pretty nice but good if you're into very morbid situations handled with very understated comedy, the title of Humanist Vampire Seeking Consenting Suicidal Person (2023) had me worried it would be gut-wrenching but no--it's sweet low-key comedy-horror basically along the lines of an episode of What We Do in the Shadows.
This movie was fantastic! And if you understand Quebec French, it's even funnier!
posted by Kitteh at 9:56 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
This movie was fantastic! And if you understand Quebec French, it's even funnier!
posted by Kitteh at 9:56 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
I, for one, am happy to have horror films which are about actual devils and witches and not just a metaphor for trauma.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:01 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:01 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I, for one, am happy to have horror films which are about actual devils and witches and not just a metaphor for trauma.
Garth Marenghi put it best.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:13 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
Garth Marenghi put it best.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:13 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]
Ishana Night Shyamalan' The Watchers captures the curious needy side of "evil", even has a hatch. The Strangers chap.1 is so predictable I'm thinking the masks are are less scary then if Tamara was home.
posted by clavdivs at 10:34 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 10:34 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
One thing I will say for Longlegs is that it took huuuuuuuuuge swings. It did not land all of them and I'd rate it as good not great on the whole. But it was a fair bit more ambitious than most horror that makes it to the mainstream and I can see how that made people so excited, even if the resulting film is imperfect.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:47 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:47 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Looking things over, I think my highest rated (personally) horror film of 2024 may be the Indonesian film Grave Torture by Joko Anwar. When it comes to Joko, IYKYK. He does not fuck around.
I don't think I've seen anyone mention The Coffee Table yet, which is both darkly hilarious and traumatizing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:49 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
I don't think I've seen anyone mention The Coffee Table yet, which is both darkly hilarious and traumatizing.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:49 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
I also thought well of (from recent to earlier in the year) All You Need Is Death, Sting, Milk & Serial, Cuckoo, In a Violent Nature, I Saw the TV Glow, Infested, The First Omen, Late Night with the Devil, Stopmotion, and Out of Darkness, to various degrees for various reasons.
The new Speak No Evil, The Front Room, Alien Romulus, MaXXXine, A Quiet Place Day One, Abigail, Arcadian, Immaculate, and Lisa Frankenstein were things I enjoyed and either thought were good but a tier below the first batch or good, but with qualifiers about to whom I would actually recommend it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:53 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
The new Speak No Evil, The Front Room, Alien Romulus, MaXXXine, A Quiet Place Day One, Abigail, Arcadian, Immaculate, and Lisa Frankenstein were things I enjoyed and either thought were good but a tier below the first batch or good, but with qualifiers about to whom I would actually recommend it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:53 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]
Apropos of pretty much nothing, I gave up on the first A Quiet Place movie when incidental music started. It seemed to miss its own point.
posted by Billiken at 10:57 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
posted by Billiken at 10:57 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
Few things are more enjoyable than watching a scary movie at a festival screening full of rowdy genre nuts.
That's elevation for ya.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:13 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]
That's elevation for ya.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:13 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]
DirtyOldTown, I'm impressed by your capacity for being frightened. Jump scares alone would have buried me watching all those.
I can only watch horror movies if I have a mute button to engage when I know the scary part is coming. The eerie sound is a huge element of the experience, and as a coward, I remove it.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:15 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
I can only watch horror movies if I have a mute button to engage when I know the scary part is coming. The eerie sound is a huge element of the experience, and as a coward, I remove it.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:15 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
One thing I will say for Longlegs is that it took huuuuuuuuuge swings. I
I'm curious what you mean about that...the only thing I can identify would be Cage's appearance, which was also not explained at all.
(And what was up with the NAME?!?!? Why the long legs there were no long legs, no long legs ANYWHERE 😫)
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:16 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
I'm curious what you mean about that...the only thing I can identify would be Cage's appearance, which was also not explained at all.
(And what was up with the NAME?!?!? Why the long legs there were no long legs, no long legs ANYWHERE 😫)
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:16 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Few things are more enjoyable than watching a scary movie at a festival screening full of rowdy genre nuts.
As a teenager, I used to go pretty far out of the way to the downtown St Louis movie theater to watch horror and action movies with a predominantly African American crowd. By predominantly, I mean everyone but me and my friend Brian. Crowd participation was a huge part of the movie, and a great group experience!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:18 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
As a teenager, I used to go pretty far out of the way to the downtown St Louis movie theater to watch horror and action movies with a predominantly African American crowd. By predominantly, I mean everyone but me and my friend Brian. Crowd participation was a huge part of the movie, and a great group experience!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:18 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Why the long legs there were no long legs, no long legs ANYWHERE
They were slowly creeping up behind you the entire time.
I suddenly want to release a box full of Daddy Longlegs into a showing.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:19 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
They were slowly creeping up behind you the entire time.
I suddenly want to release a box full of Daddy Longlegs into a showing.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:19 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
the real long legs were the limbs we made along the way
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:22 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:22 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]
Slenderman: pfffft, you call those long?
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:36 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:36 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]
Ok I will say that the only reason to watch Longlegs is the always amazing Alicia Witt but I also felt bad that her character could have been more fleshed out. I hope she made bank off of it at least.
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:38 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 11:38 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]
I'd define good horror as both characters and monsters behaving resonably, not sure if his "elevated horror" films qualify.
John Carpenter's The Thing qualifies though, hence The Things by Peter Watts, which retells the story from the alien's point of view.
I think really good horror should be existential though, which works fine in books but poorly in movies.
Anything like devils, witches, vampires, etc should be considered horror-fantasy, which works but fantasy is fantasy.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:15 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
John Carpenter's The Thing qualifies though, hence The Things by Peter Watts, which retells the story from the alien's point of view.
I think really good horror should be existential though, which works fine in books but poorly in movies.
Anything like devils, witches, vampires, etc should be considered horror-fantasy, which works but fantasy is fantasy.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:15 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
IDK what the right and proper horror movies are, but I will say "it's not scary" is the least illuminating thing you can say about a horror movie. Movies used to scare you because you were a kid. Now you're an adult who makes a living off this stuff. If you're still genuinely scared by anything short of snuff I'd recommend an MRI.
posted by jy4m at 12:23 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 12:23 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
The golden age of horror is 16.
Movies we saw when we were young have an outsized space in our hearts and minds, because when you are young, every experience is a new, unjaded miracle. You can try to keep that feeling by only watching those movies again (doesn't work, everything fades over time), or by asking Hollywood to remake the same experience in a new package (Disney makes bank off this).
Myself, I chase down weird movies from around the world, my dopamine hit comes from seeing some weird Hungarian trasngenerational horror film about competitive eaters (Taxidermia), or a Czech New Wave film about a creamtorium owner who...eh, none of these descriptions are remotely accurate, it's call The Cremator, it's amazing. IMO, if you want to experience things like you did as a child, seek out new, novel experiences, because that was what was amazing about being a child.
posted by chromecow at 12:37 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]
Movies we saw when we were young have an outsized space in our hearts and minds, because when you are young, every experience is a new, unjaded miracle. You can try to keep that feeling by only watching those movies again (doesn't work, everything fades over time), or by asking Hollywood to remake the same experience in a new package (Disney makes bank off this).
Myself, I chase down weird movies from around the world, my dopamine hit comes from seeing some weird Hungarian trasngenerational horror film about competitive eaters (Taxidermia), or a Czech New Wave film about a creamtorium owner who...eh, none of these descriptions are remotely accurate, it's call The Cremator, it's amazing. IMO, if you want to experience things like you did as a child, seek out new, novel experiences, because that was what was amazing about being a child.
posted by chromecow at 12:37 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]
If I were Semley’s editor, I’d suggest they go back and include a take on LATE NIGHT WITH THE DEVIL (my favorite horror this year) instead of devoting so much space to LONGLEGS - which probably merited at least some reference to THE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS.
posted by edithkeeler at 1:03 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
posted by edithkeeler at 1:03 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
You know, I was super disappointed with Late Night with the Devil! Like, the vibes and tone and acting were there but I dunno. It just didn't land for me. I was bummed.
Actually, now that I think about it, that movie was how I felt about Longlegs too: immaculate vibes, but a plot that doesn't quite hold together for me. Mind you, neither film sucked, they just didn't give me the chills and thrills I was looking for.
posted by Kitteh at 1:07 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
Actually, now that I think about it, that movie was how I felt about Longlegs too: immaculate vibes, but a plot that doesn't quite hold together for me. Mind you, neither film sucked, they just didn't give me the chills and thrills I was looking for.
posted by Kitteh at 1:07 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
Kitteh, I totally respect your view. It’s fun to discuss where otherwise decent horror films missed the mark.
posted by edithkeeler at 1:08 PM on September 26
posted by edithkeeler at 1:08 PM on September 26
I watched I Saw the TV Glow after seeing it mentioned here, and hoo boy, what a heartbreaking movie. Good stuff.
I'd already seen We're All Going to the World's Fair.* That one didn't hit me quite as strongly, but I figured that might be because I'm an Old.
Taking notes on some of the other movies listed here that I haven't seen also. Thanks!
*World's fair, not state fair
posted by Archer25 at 1:36 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I'd already seen We're All Going to the World's Fair.* That one didn't hit me quite as strongly, but I figured that might be because I'm an Old.
Taking notes on some of the other movies listed here that I haven't seen also. Thanks!
*World's fair, not state fair
posted by Archer25 at 1:36 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I Saw the TV Glow was one of my faves this year. It strikes deep nostalgia chords for me as a 90s teen. And that soundtrack? SO GOOD.
posted by Kitteh at 1:44 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 1:44 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
Anything like devils, witches, vampires, etc should be considered horror-fantasy, which works but fantasy is fantasy.
whoah whoah whoah whoah
whoah
a good chunk of the horror movies I have enjoyed over the years is precisely this gaping chasm of uncertainty: What If, witches, devils, vampires, etc. I take your point, but it seems reductive somehow.
posted by ginger.beef at 1:54 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
whoah whoah whoah whoah
whoah
a good chunk of the horror movies I have enjoyed over the years is precisely this gaping chasm of uncertainty: What If, witches, devils, vampires, etc. I take your point, but it seems reductive somehow.
posted by ginger.beef at 1:54 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
If you're still genuinely scared by anything short of snuff I'd recommend an MRI.
come onnnn
i wanted to think of a more insightful, cutting response to this (bait?) but all i can muster is: really? really?? come onnnnnnnnnn
meanwhile, author of TFA should have reconsidered his entire take as soon as he found himself lumping GET OUT into a category he chose to describe as "gentrified"
c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
posted by a flock of goslings at 2:05 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]
come onnnn
i wanted to think of a more insightful, cutting response to this (bait?) but all i can muster is: really? really?? come onnnnnnnnnn
meanwhile, author of TFA should have reconsidered his entire take as soon as he found himself lumping GET OUT into a category he chose to describe as "gentrified"
c'monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
posted by a flock of goslings at 2:05 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]
I misread that and thought an MRI was being described as scary (procedure wise it's not unless you're claustrophobic but depending on what they're looking for, could be!) I love how insults go over my head sometimes. 😄
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:13 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:13 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
(Also, not being scared by ANY movie? Reminds me of Pete Holmes' bit about being a "hard laugh." That's not good! Let yourself feel something!)
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:14 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:14 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I mean yes if you consider yourself a Real Horror Fan and also academic expert on the subject and you've seen hundreds of scary movies, to the extent that you watch them by picking out and picking on the overdone tropes and genre conventions, and you deride artsy fartsy outsiders for coming around to them only recently, yes I think it's normal, expected, to be jaded.
posted by jy4m at 2:32 PM on September 26
posted by jy4m at 2:32 PM on September 26
Bouncing off what Ebert noted in his review of Cabin in the Woods, no-one over-analyses films quite like horror fans.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 2:38 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 2:38 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
tl/dr: these movies that I had not one hand in conceiving/creating are not to my liking and because I am the main character I need them to not exist anymore.
posted by haplesschild at 2:54 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by haplesschild at 2:54 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
This reminds me of Jenna Stoeber's video on why jumpscares are good. She also talks about appreciating "cheap" genre horror vs elevated horror.
posted by extramachine at 3:21 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by extramachine at 3:21 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
I have been watching horror films for decades, and I still look for that shudder, that sense of uneasiness, that bit of fright coming back in the night. It's a good feeling, in it's way.
I think films like Hereditary and Get Outaren't scary because that isn't what the creators are trying to do. They are deploying horror tropes for other purposes. I think the former largely fails while the latter largely succeeds, but your mileage, as always, may vary.
The author of the piece seems contemptuous of both "prestige horror creators" and "horror fans." While their are "meathead, surface only" fans, horror fans in general are capable of extreme nuance and finding interesting things to discuss in deeply flawed films. I still treasure the podcast that discussed Sleepaway Camp 2, where a host said "Angela doesn't kill people because she's trans; Angela kills people because she thinks they're assholes."
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:25 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]
I think films like Hereditary and Get Outaren't scary because that isn't what the creators are trying to do. They are deploying horror tropes for other purposes. I think the former largely fails while the latter largely succeeds, but your mileage, as always, may vary.
The author of the piece seems contemptuous of both "prestige horror creators" and "horror fans." While their are "meathead, surface only" fans, horror fans in general are capable of extreme nuance and finding interesting things to discuss in deeply flawed films. I still treasure the podcast that discussed Sleepaway Camp 2, where a host said "Angela doesn't kill people because she's trans; Angela kills people because she thinks they're assholes."
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:25 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]
I want more films like: The Autopsy of Jane Doe, The Conjuring 2, It Follows, Under the Shadow, The Others, The VVitch, Drag Me To Hell, The Skeleton Key, and The Sixth Sense.
posted by edithkeeler at 3:27 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
posted by edithkeeler at 3:27 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]
Wait, wait, wait. Get Out isn't scary? In what universe.
Sometimes I wonder if a "not scary or scary" designation has to do with a person's level of empathy for the characters, the ability to actually imagine what if this was actually happening right now? Which means that things that take people out of the narrative can ruin it. But...yeah, disagree on that one.
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:30 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
Sometimes I wonder if a "not scary or scary" designation has to do with a person's level of empathy for the characters, the ability to actually imagine what if this was actually happening right now? Which means that things that take people out of the narrative can ruin it. But...yeah, disagree on that one.
posted by tiny frying pan at 3:30 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
Y'all, my sister is watching Sleepaway Camp for the first time and I have to admit: I am a little jealous that she gets to experience for the first time.
posted by Kitteh at 3:33 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 3:33 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
Wait, wait, wait. Get Out isn't scary? In what universe.
It undercuts it's horror with humor too much, and certain scenes (notably where Chris is tied to the chair) are presented as obstacles rather than traumas/horrors by their relatively easy resolution. Note that I am not saying it's a bad film, by any means, it is very effective. But, what starts in a horror mode shifts to a thriller, which has different rules and beats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:38 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
It undercuts it's horror with humor too much, and certain scenes (notably where Chris is tied to the chair) are presented as obstacles rather than traumas/horrors by their relatively easy resolution. Note that I am not saying it's a bad film, by any means, it is very effective. But, what starts in a horror mode shifts to a thriller, which has different rules and beats.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:38 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by es_de_bah at 3:45 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I'm a big believer in Wes Craven's adage: "Horror films don't create fear; they release it."
I have so much anxiety and I worry about everything. Horror is a chance to deal with fear and anxiety in a closed environment. It's not only not too much for me, I sort of depend on it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:55 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]
I have so much anxiety and I worry about everything. Horror is a chance to deal with fear and anxiety in a closed environment. It's not only not too much for me, I sort of depend on it.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 3:55 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]
But, what starts in a horror mode shifts to a thriller, which has different rules and beats.
I judge my horror by how actually horrific it is, is my deal, I guess.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:19 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I judge my horror by how actually horrific it is, is my deal, I guess.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:19 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Apparently this writer isn't aware that Last House On The Left was a deliberate remake of The Virgin Spring, and Jaws cribbed its first act from An Enemy Of The People. Oh well.
posted by queensissy at 4:36 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
posted by queensissy at 4:36 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]
this post is great timing, i'm actually throwing an "elevated horror" movie night this week. we're showing devil (2010), elevated (1996) and de lift (1983)
posted by _earwig_ at 4:51 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]
posted by _earwig_ at 4:51 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]
Last House On The Left was a deliberate remake of The Virgin Spring
Obviously Craven did well for himself, and made a lot of good movies, but holy hell I hope to never, ever see Last House on the Left ever again.
posted by mittens at 5:07 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
Obviously Craven did well for himself, and made a lot of good movies, but holy hell I hope to never, ever see Last House on the Left ever again.
posted by mittens at 5:07 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
I watched The Hills Have Eyes recently and was disappointed to find that I thought it kind of sucked. I mean, good on Wes for stringing together enough exploitation markers to make bank at the drive-in or whatever, but it is not a good movie. He did take the money/acclaim and get higher budgets and up his game though, so ... cool.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:26 PM on September 26
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:26 PM on September 26
I found Get Out extremely discomforting, but I think it's mostly for the same reasons that cringe comedies of the sort that were popular two decades ago (There's Something about Mary, Kingpin, Meet the Parents, etc., etc., etc.) will drive me screaming right out of the room: I cannot deal with social awkwardness. I've made my peace with it in the months since I first saw it, but this is why I had such a viscerally horrible reaction to the original Speak No Evil, which to me felt like nothing so much as a 90-minute episode of I Think You Should Leave, perhaps (to me) the most disturbing show on television. I don't know how much of Get Out frightened me, but a lot of it actively distressed the hell out of me.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:58 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:58 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
_earwig_ . I just dl'ed the 2 of those I could find, they sound great. I love these threads for that!
posted by hap_hazard at 6:03 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
posted by hap_hazard at 6:03 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]
For 'elevated horror' (thanks, I hate it), I have a few directors/movies I love:
Panos Cosmatos: Mandy
Ben Wheatly: High Rise
Yorgos Lanthimos: Killing of a Sacred Deer
Alex Garland: Annihilation, Men
Robert Eggers: The VVitch, The Lighthouse
Jordan Peele: Get Out
Boots Riley: Sorry to Bother You
Andrzej Żuławski: The Possession
Jonathan Glazer: Under the Skin, Zone of Interest
Todd Field: Tár (Is it Horror? Comedy? I settled on Horror Comedy)
The OG, John Carpenter: The Thing, They Live
On the TV side, Mike Flanagan's stuff, Midnight Mass, House of Usher
As a group of movies, the common thread is that they are great movies, that they are horror is secondary (to me). Another common thread: They all have a strong metaphorical/allegorical layer.
I also like a bunch of movies that are fun horror flix, that they are genre films is a more important selling point. They are generally light on the metaphorical layer:
Psycho Gorman
Dude Bro Massacre III
Sam Rami: Evil Dead II, Army of Darkness
Don Coscarelli: Phantasm, John Dies in the End
etc, etc.
In the end: watch what you love. If what you love is pointless arguments, there's always film Twitter.
posted by chromecow at 6:50 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]
Panos Cosmatos: Mandy
Ben Wheatly: High Rise
Yorgos Lanthimos: Killing of a Sacred Deer
Alex Garland: Annihilation, Men
Robert Eggers: The VVitch, The Lighthouse
Jordan Peele: Get Out
Boots Riley: Sorry to Bother You
Andrzej Żuławski: The Possession
Jonathan Glazer: Under the Skin, Zone of Interest
Todd Field: Tár (Is it Horror? Comedy? I settled on Horror Comedy)
The OG, John Carpenter: The Thing, They Live
On the TV side, Mike Flanagan's stuff, Midnight Mass, House of Usher
As a group of movies, the common thread is that they are great movies, that they are horror is secondary (to me). Another common thread: They all have a strong metaphorical/allegorical layer.
I also like a bunch of movies that are fun horror flix, that they are genre films is a more important selling point. They are generally light on the metaphorical layer:
Psycho Gorman
Dude Bro Massacre III
Sam Rami: Evil Dead II, Army of Darkness
Don Coscarelli: Phantasm, John Dies in the End
etc, etc.
In the end: watch what you love. If what you love is pointless arguments, there's always film Twitter.
posted by chromecow at 6:50 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]
"Horror films used to feel like my emotions were unburdened and easy to access, but horror films these days feel like I have a mortgage."
posted by AlSweigart at 6:52 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 6:52 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]
i'm actually throwing an "elevated horror" movie night this week. we're showing devil (2010), elevated (1996) and de lift (1983)
Don't forget Hellevator: the Bottled Fools.
I have my disagreements with this (in particular, it's weird to laud In A Violent Nature as an antidote to this when it contains many of the attributes of the elevated-horror trend he's describing), but I do understand where the author is coming from. Horror trends tend to come in waves, and just as Blair Witch spawned a million found-footage horror films and Halloween / Black Christmas spawned a million slashers, I do think we have been through (or are still in) a wave of "horror as an explicit exploration of trauma" movies.
It's complicated, IMHO, because a lot of horror isn't consistently good. I think the vast majority of Hereditary is amazing, but then it kind of falls apart in the final act, and I agree with the author that the ending gets overly literal and winds up cheapening the themes of the rest of the movie. I sort of think the same thing about It Follows. I still think those are both good movies, but it's very common for horror movies not to stick the landing. (Although I'd say that of the author's examples, Get Out, The Witch, and The Babadook are all unusual in that their endings are all well-done and provide satisfying thematic conclusions.)
But it's not like inconsistency is unique to elevated horror either. None of those Rob Zombie movies stick the landing, either, except maybe The Devil's Rejects, which as far as I can tell is the only good movie he's ever made. And I like the Terrifier movies as goofy fun, but I'm not really sure you can "do" anything with them any more than the meta-horror films the author calls out. What can you "do" with Friday the 13: Part III?
posted by whir at 8:59 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
Don't forget Hellevator: the Bottled Fools.
I have my disagreements with this (in particular, it's weird to laud In A Violent Nature as an antidote to this when it contains many of the attributes of the elevated-horror trend he's describing), but I do understand where the author is coming from. Horror trends tend to come in waves, and just as Blair Witch spawned a million found-footage horror films and Halloween / Black Christmas spawned a million slashers, I do think we have been through (or are still in) a wave of "horror as an explicit exploration of trauma" movies.
It's complicated, IMHO, because a lot of horror isn't consistently good. I think the vast majority of Hereditary is amazing, but then it kind of falls apart in the final act, and I agree with the author that the ending gets overly literal and winds up cheapening the themes of the rest of the movie. I sort of think the same thing about It Follows. I still think those are both good movies, but it's very common for horror movies not to stick the landing. (Although I'd say that of the author's examples, Get Out, The Witch, and The Babadook are all unusual in that their endings are all well-done and provide satisfying thematic conclusions.)
But it's not like inconsistency is unique to elevated horror either. None of those Rob Zombie movies stick the landing, either, except maybe The Devil's Rejects, which as far as I can tell is the only good movie he's ever made. And I like the Terrifier movies as goofy fun, but I'm not really sure you can "do" anything with them any more than the meta-horror films the author calls out. What can you "do" with Friday the 13: Part III?
posted by whir at 8:59 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]
I just RTFA (well, skimmed. Life is too short). I get why the guy must like slasher movies, he brutally murdered one strawman after another.
posted by chromecow at 10:24 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]
posted by chromecow at 10:24 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]
horror films these days feel like I have a mortgage
One of the subtexts of Poltergeist was that the Freelings are living in a new development, Dad is a realtor, and the house is literally going to hell. The financial cost to the family is part of the terror.
posted by SPrintF at 7:38 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
One of the subtexts of Poltergeist was that the Freelings are living in a new development, Dad is a realtor, and the house is literally going to hell. The financial cost to the family is part of the terror.
posted by SPrintF at 7:38 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
One of the subtexts of Poltergeist was that the Freelings are living in a new development, Dad is a realtor, and the house is literally going to hell. The financial cost to the family is part of the terror.
That's something that gets brought up on Sarah Marshall's podcast "You Are Good" a lot, that a lot of haunted house movies from that era onward are about the cost of real estate. As opposed to like "The Changeling" which is about grief and generational guilt.
I blame the Warrens.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:16 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
That's something that gets brought up on Sarah Marshall's podcast "You Are Good" a lot, that a lot of haunted house movies from that era onward are about the cost of real estate. As opposed to like "The Changeling" which is about grief and generational guilt.
I blame the Warrens.
posted by Gygesringtone at 8:16 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
I blame the housing market. If I owned the house in Amityville, the ghosts would have to do WAY more fucked up shit than that to get ME out of there!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:31 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:31 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]
I've tried watching the first two Halloween remakes by Rob Zombie and I will say this: I respect the passion he has for horror movies but his versions just don't land with me very well.
I think he fundamentally gets different things from the genre than I do.
Every Rob Zombie movie is just about more more more louder louder louder. No subtext, no subtlety, just angry people from broken homes shouting at each other. It feels a little like punching down since a lot of the families he portrays are kind of living in a horror movie to begin with.
Part of the subtext in Halloween and other genre films were that these were "safe" middle class families whose circumstances were revealed to be precarious when it comes right down to it.
Rob Zombie gets none of that. Just stereotypically broken people doing stereotypically broken people things. His movies would be better if they left out any supernatural element and just were a social commentary on what poverty can do to people and the value of some kind of social safety nets.
posted by mikesch at 10:46 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]
I think he fundamentally gets different things from the genre than I do.
Every Rob Zombie movie is just about more more more louder louder louder. No subtext, no subtlety, just angry people from broken homes shouting at each other. It feels a little like punching down since a lot of the families he portrays are kind of living in a horror movie to begin with.
Part of the subtext in Halloween and other genre films were that these were "safe" middle class families whose circumstances were revealed to be precarious when it comes right down to it.
Rob Zombie gets none of that. Just stereotypically broken people doing stereotypically broken people things. His movies would be better if they left out any supernatural element and just were a social commentary on what poverty can do to people and the value of some kind of social safety nets.
posted by mikesch at 10:46 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]
I'd date the golden age of horror a bit earlier, like 5-9. At least in my experience. That's when I first came across Bava's Planet of the Vampires.
posted by doctornemo at 2:23 PM on September 27
posted by doctornemo at 2:23 PM on September 27
Oddly, I just saw Halloween H20 tonight and it's very much about Laurie Strode's trauma, so that's not exactly a new thing, or restricted to elevated horror. Offhand I'd say that Pet Sematary and Misery both dealt with more recent trauma, as do Last House on the Left and I Spit on Your Grave. And a lot of ghost stories are explicitly about trauma, often the ghost's (The Changeling, Stir of Echoes, Beloved--hell, even Hamlet) and sometimes the humans' (The Haunting, The Innocents (1961)).... I don't know how many of these film would count as elevated horror, but it seems like a strange thing to complain about.
I still have this idea of the author of the article cherry picking data to arrive at a pre-selected conclusion.
posted by johnofjack at 7:26 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
I still have this idea of the author of the article cherry picking data to arrive at a pre-selected conclusion.
posted by johnofjack at 7:26 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
I think the problem with Elevated Horror is not the films themselves, but that the tropes of A24 horror films have begun the inevitable process of calcifying into a house style, and one that has spread to competing studios. Ten years ago, films like this were more likely to represent fresh artistic visions. Now it's just a respectable gloss to slap on your low budget horror movie. That's predictable and dull, and those are things no artist wants to be; that's how you become irrelevant. It's no surprise that Ari Aster made a weird horror-fantasy phantasmagoria about middle age after Midsommar, or that Robert Eggers did a weird Conan-by-way-of-Hamlet riff after The Lighthouse -- these are real filmmakers who resisted the box their own successes threatened to put them in, and even if their new films were unsuccessful (neither was fully baked, IMO), they at least showed that their creators wouldn't be reduced to making the same hits over and over again.
Of course, most filmmakers -- and all studios -- would be thrilled to make the same films over and over again, provided they could rely on a consistent audience for them. What is artistic death is financial freedom, and I think most of us are much more worried about making money than achieving transcendence, the latter a goal of, usually, only the very young and the very old. So, basically, I expect Elevated Horror -- or, more specifically, the house style that is now Elevated Horror -- to stick around for as long as it takes for audiences to lose interest, plus three to five more years.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:33 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
Of course, most filmmakers -- and all studios -- would be thrilled to make the same films over and over again, provided they could rely on a consistent audience for them. What is artistic death is financial freedom, and I think most of us are much more worried about making money than achieving transcendence, the latter a goal of, usually, only the very young and the very old. So, basically, I expect Elevated Horror -- or, more specifically, the house style that is now Elevated Horror -- to stick around for as long as it takes for audiences to lose interest, plus three to five more years.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:33 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
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posted by thivaia at 8:09 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]