The Fuck Around And Find Out Queen
October 4, 2024 7:39 PM Subscribe
Former Colorado county clerk, conspiracy monger, and election denier Tina Peters has been sentenced to 9 years incarceration for providing pillow and conspiracy peddler Mike Lindell access to Dominion voting machines in the wake of the 2020 election along with using her position to push baseless claims.
Of particular note is the utter dressing down Judge Matthew Barrett gave Peters in his sentencing remarks, noting her defiance, lack of contrition, and pursuit of fame on the right wing grievance circuit along with the damage she did to trust in democratic systems as why he was choosing incarceration for her.
Of particular note is the utter dressing down Judge Matthew Barrett gave Peters in his sentencing remarks, noting her defiance, lack of contrition, and pursuit of fame on the right wing grievance circuit along with the damage she did to trust in democratic systems as why he was choosing incarceration for her.
Betrayal of the public trust should always carry a heavy penalty.
posted by SPrintF at 8:21 PM on October 4, 2024 [14 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 8:21 PM on October 4, 2024 [14 favorites]
Tina Peters tried to argue she can't go to prison because she needs to sleep on a magnetic mattress.
Are magnetic mattresses even a thing?
posted by orange swan at 8:37 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
Are magnetic mattresses even a thing?
posted by orange swan at 8:37 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
That arrest video. She has no fucking idea how lucky she is to be wealthy and white with that behavior.
posted by Ickster at 8:41 PM on October 4, 2024 [26 favorites]
posted by Ickster at 8:41 PM on October 4, 2024 [26 favorites]
... and for a supreme ironic note: the Beatles "Let It Be" playing in the background of her arrest as she refuses to face the situation as an actualized adult .
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 9:33 PM on October 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 9:33 PM on October 4, 2024 [9 favorites]
Now I'm no mouth-reading expert, but that woman in the beginning she was trying to whisper to appears to be either related to her or a close friend or something, and you can see while she's just outside the LE-SUV she is clearly mouthing (so the woman could translate from afar) something like "get .... (can't tell) ...and keys... (can't tell) and grab the ... (can't tell) ... out of my car" and then minute later looks over to the same area and says "SILVER!", as if she's clarifying a question the woman off-camera is asking.
I think she was trying to tell that woman to get her keys and get the iPad she keeps saying "isn't mine" out of her car?
Eh, doesn't matter. She never gets to vote, or be any part of the voting process on any level, ever again and she gets at least a few comfy years behind bars to sit and think about how she threw it all away for the one of the most odious of Americans - nay people! - we've still got to endure as a public figure.
Hope it was worth it, entitled conspiracy lady!
posted by revmitcz at 9:34 PM on October 4, 2024 [19 favorites]
I think she was trying to tell that woman to get her keys and get the iPad she keeps saying "isn't mine" out of her car?
Eh, doesn't matter. She never gets to vote, or be any part of the voting process on any level, ever again and she gets at least a few comfy years behind bars to sit and think about how she threw it all away for the one of the most odious of Americans - nay people! - we've still got to endure as a public figure.
Hope it was worth it, entitled conspiracy lady!
posted by revmitcz at 9:34 PM on October 4, 2024 [19 favorites]
Are magnetic mattresses even a thing?
If they are, then Mike Lindell is selling them.
posted by TedW at 9:51 PM on October 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
If they are, then Mike Lindell is selling them.
posted by TedW at 9:51 PM on October 4, 2024 [10 favorites]
The judge was great, but if Trump wins she's back home by Presidents Day.
posted by Marky at 10:13 PM on October 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by Marky at 10:13 PM on October 4, 2024 [4 favorites]
There are a lot of bad things that happen if Trump becomes president, but holding off on celebrating the good things now only makes that more likely, not less.
posted by It is regrettable that at 10:22 PM on October 4, 2024 [21 favorites]
posted by It is regrettable that at 10:22 PM on October 4, 2024 [21 favorites]
There are absolutely magnetic mattresses ... or mattress pads, at least.
In this instance, the name of the site seems oddly appropriate.
posted by lhauser at 10:34 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
In this instance, the name of the site seems oddly appropriate.
posted by lhauser at 10:34 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
I did a bit of googling, and while magnetic mattresses/mattress pads definitely exist, they seem to be one of those "wellness" products that haven't been scientifically proven to have actual medical benefits. Which is only par for the course with someone like Tina Peters. She simply does not know how to evaluate reality.
I've been browsing Twitter. MAGA is big mad over Peters' sentencing, and is threatening Judge Matthew Barrett.
posted by orange swan at 10:42 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
I've been browsing Twitter. MAGA is big mad over Peters' sentencing, and is threatening Judge Matthew Barrett.
posted by orange swan at 10:42 PM on October 4, 2024 [6 favorites]
"MAGA is big mad over Peters' sentencing," I think this is the propoganda-messaging they've come up with. Instead of answering to January 6th and criminal election denial, message with "what about censorship" that you saw at the VP Debate: "But Biden did become President on January 20th... what about censorship!?" and gather all of RFK Jr & COVID denial under that umbrella while you're at it. "Did Kamala Harris censor Americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 COVID situation?" @1:31:47
posted by rubatan at 11:28 PM on October 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by rubatan at 11:28 PM on October 4, 2024 [3 favorites]
Are magnetic mattresses even a thing?
Magnetic mattresses, how do they work?
posted by Relay at 11:31 PM on October 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
Magnetic mattresses, how do they work?
posted by Relay at 11:31 PM on October 4, 2024 [1 favorite]
The judge was great, but if Trump wins she's back home by Presidents Day.
When Trump started running for President, I never realized it was for President of Colorado.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 12:30 AM on October 5, 2024 [15 favorites]
When Trump started running for President, I never realized it was for President of Colorado.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 12:30 AM on October 5, 2024 [15 favorites]
Why the extremely long explanation from the judge during sentencing?
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:34 AM on October 5, 2024
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:34 AM on October 5, 2024
Are magnetic mattresses even a thing?
Unrivalled in Zero-G!
posted by fairmettle at 4:15 AM on October 5, 2024
Unrivalled in Zero-G!
posted by fairmettle at 4:15 AM on October 5, 2024
Oh good. I hope we can convict the folks involved in the same scheme in Georgia next (along with all their co-defendants who tried to overthrow our state election results).
posted by hydropsyche at 4:18 AM on October 5, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 4:18 AM on October 5, 2024 [9 favorites]
Mod note: One removed. Don't accuse people of being Russian agents (or similar). Don't concentrate on insulting / attacking fellow members, period. Read the Guidelines or the handy note below the comment window.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:48 AM on October 5, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 4:48 AM on October 5, 2024 [6 favorites]
Why did they let her walk away? Wouldn’t they need to take her to the station if she was under arrest?
posted by waving at 5:04 AM on October 5, 2024
posted by waving at 5:04 AM on October 5, 2024
Why the extremely long explanation from the judge during sentencing?
Watching Tina speaking to the judge I’m guessing the judge had it with her.
posted by waving at 5:26 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Watching Tina speaking to the judge I’m guessing the judge had it with her.
posted by waving at 5:26 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
The Tina Peters Wikipedia page is one heck of a read.
posted by R. Mutt at 5:45 AM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by R. Mutt at 5:45 AM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
HA-ha! < /nelsonmuntz>
Trump will never pardon her or any of the J6 freaks should he steal this election. Little people always suffer for him and his sociopathic ass doesn't care or indeed even notice.
The "censorship" thing isn't about stolen elections IMHO. It's about neo-Nazis and Qanon people being kicked off social media platforms for being Nazis or making death threats. When Vance went on about it near the end of his debate with Walz, it seemed clear that what he wants is our entire social media sphere and public square (not just Shitter) to be a place where neo-Nazis' ideas have to be debated and taken seriously. Because only then can they raise up a cohort of Gen Z white boys/men to be the next generation of misogynist gun nuts.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:55 AM on October 5, 2024 [11 favorites]
Trump will never pardon her or any of the J6 freaks should he steal this election. Little people always suffer for him and his sociopathic ass doesn't care or indeed even notice.
The "censorship" thing isn't about stolen elections IMHO. It's about neo-Nazis and Qanon people being kicked off social media platforms for being Nazis or making death threats. When Vance went on about it near the end of his debate with Walz, it seemed clear that what he wants is our entire social media sphere and public square (not just Shitter) to be a place where neo-Nazis' ideas have to be debated and taken seriously. Because only then can they raise up a cohort of Gen Z white boys/men to be the next generation of misogynist gun nuts.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:55 AM on October 5, 2024 [11 favorites]
Why the extremely long explanation from the judge during sentencing?
Tina Peters is still trending on Twitter, partly because it's extremely satisfying to see a narcissistic asshole who tried to help steal an election and who refuses to demonstrate any honesty or accountability for what they did be confronted with the truth and face real consequences for what they did, and partly because of Judge Barrett's fantastic, and cathartic, speech. He is all of us! Only far more eloquent and knowledgeable about the law! And in a position of authority to send Tina Peters' entitled ass to prison for a considerable amount of time!
posted by orange swan at 6:19 AM on October 5, 2024 [21 favorites]
Tina Peters is still trending on Twitter, partly because it's extremely satisfying to see a narcissistic asshole who tried to help steal an election and who refuses to demonstrate any honesty or accountability for what they did be confronted with the truth and face real consequences for what they did, and partly because of Judge Barrett's fantastic, and cathartic, speech. He is all of us! Only far more eloquent and knowledgeable about the law! And in a position of authority to send Tina Peters' entitled ass to prison for a considerable amount of time!
posted by orange swan at 6:19 AM on October 5, 2024 [21 favorites]
Why did they let her walk away? Wouldn’t they need to take her to the station if she was under arrest?
From her Wiki page, it looks like they were after the iPad, which she had used to record court proceedings and then of course, lied about:
"On March 3, 2023, Peters received a Mesa County jury trial for charges related to her recording the court proceedings of Knisley with an iPad on February 7, 2022, and for obstructing investigators who tried to execute a search warrant to seize her iPad with the video footage the next day. During the trial, testimony and statements from Peters' attorney revealed that Tammy Bailey was an alias that Peters had created for herself; during the time of the search warrant, Peters had repeatedly told investigators that the iPad did not belong to her and that she could not provide the password because it belonged to someone else named Tammy Bailey. "
posted by R. Mutt at 6:30 AM on October 5, 2024 [9 favorites]
From her Wiki page, it looks like they were after the iPad, which she had used to record court proceedings and then of course, lied about:
"On March 3, 2023, Peters received a Mesa County jury trial for charges related to her recording the court proceedings of Knisley with an iPad on February 7, 2022, and for obstructing investigators who tried to execute a search warrant to seize her iPad with the video footage the next day. During the trial, testimony and statements from Peters' attorney revealed that Tammy Bailey was an alias that Peters had created for herself; during the time of the search warrant, Peters had repeatedly told investigators that the iPad did not belong to her and that she could not provide the password because it belonged to someone else named Tammy Bailey. "
posted by R. Mutt at 6:30 AM on October 5, 2024 [9 favorites]
Now do Lindell... sounds like he could be charged with bribery or election tampering.
posted by kokaku at 7:06 AM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 7:06 AM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
I bet Lindell's future fellow inmates will have some fun stealing or otherwise messing with his pillows.
posted by orange swan at 7:28 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 7:28 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Watching Tina speaking to the judge I’m guessing the judge had it with her.
Was going to post that - Jesus, forced myself to endure that yesterday and wow, only a sociopath could somehow consider that use of time likely to improve her odds, but she played every angle.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 8:27 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Was going to post that - Jesus, forced myself to endure that yesterday and wow, only a sociopath could somehow consider that use of time likely to improve her odds, but she played every angle.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 8:27 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
During the trial, testimony and statements from Peters' attorney revealed that Tammy Bailey was an alias that Peters had created for herself; during the time of the search warrant, Peters had repeatedly told investigators that the iPad did not belong to her and that she could not provide the password because it belonged to someone else named Tammy Bailey.
I suspect that Peters is a narcissist rather than a sociopath. Narcissists know the difference between right and wrong, but they'll say or do anything rather than admit fault, and fight like hell to keep their actions from coming to light even as they claim those actions are perfectly innocent. If Peters genuinely thought, as she has claimed, that she's innocent and that she was trying to preserve the integrity of the election out of loyalty to her country, why the alias? Why the lies?
She knew all along that she was doing legally wrong and still felt entitled to do it for the short-term gains it would bring her: the adulation from MAGA, the Warrior for Truth tour of the country, the wining and dining and private plane rides, and the potential for a run for office, book deals, and other opportunities.
posted by orange swan at 9:09 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
I suspect that Peters is a narcissist rather than a sociopath. Narcissists know the difference between right and wrong, but they'll say or do anything rather than admit fault, and fight like hell to keep their actions from coming to light even as they claim those actions are perfectly innocent. If Peters genuinely thought, as she has claimed, that she's innocent and that she was trying to preserve the integrity of the election out of loyalty to her country, why the alias? Why the lies?
She knew all along that she was doing legally wrong and still felt entitled to do it for the short-term gains it would bring her: the adulation from MAGA, the Warrior for Truth tour of the country, the wining and dining and private plane rides, and the potential for a run for office, book deals, and other opportunities.
posted by orange swan at 9:09 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Why the extremely long explanation from the judge during sentencing?
Because the judge was pissed. That speech is what it looks like when a judge has officially had it with a defendant who has flaunted their orders and has remained defiant in the face of overwhelming evidence of their crimes.
The "censorship" thing isn't about stolen elections IMHO. It's about neo-Nazis and Qanon people being kicked off social media platforms for being Nazis or making death threats.
Which is in part because "censorship" has been warped to meaninglessness, in order to counter the freedom of association - the fact that people have the right to tell you "fuckety-bye" in response to your comments. And sadly, that has been a bipartisan affair.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:17 AM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
Because the judge was pissed. That speech is what it looks like when a judge has officially had it with a defendant who has flaunted their orders and has remained defiant in the face of overwhelming evidence of their crimes.
The "censorship" thing isn't about stolen elections IMHO. It's about neo-Nazis and Qanon people being kicked off social media platforms for being Nazis or making death threats.
Which is in part because "censorship" has been warped to meaninglessness, in order to counter the freedom of association - the fact that people have the right to tell you "fuckety-bye" in response to your comments. And sadly, that has been a bipartisan affair.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:17 AM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
Sometimes consequences are a beautiful, beautiful thing
posted by gottabefunky at 10:29 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:29 AM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
Because the judge was pissed.
He has just listened to her ramble for forty-two minutes about how he had obviously never read any of her reports or he would be agreeing with her now, how God punishes those who harm his children and she is a child of God, how all of her evidence proving that there was rampant election-tipping fraud was denied unjustly, and so on. One reporter described it as "she thinks she can't be sentenced as long as she just keeps her speech going indefinitely."
It was so unjust and rigged and criminal that she was even there, but he could fix it all by simply releasing her to the custody of a specified religious community, and...
If she wanted to be a martyr and get as long of a sentence as she could, she followed that plan perfectly.
posted by delfin at 12:23 PM on October 5, 2024 [7 favorites]
He has just listened to her ramble for forty-two minutes about how he had obviously never read any of her reports or he would be agreeing with her now, how God punishes those who harm his children and she is a child of God, how all of her evidence proving that there was rampant election-tipping fraud was denied unjustly, and so on. One reporter described it as "she thinks she can't be sentenced as long as she just keeps her speech going indefinitely."
It was so unjust and rigged and criminal that she was even there, but he could fix it all by simply releasing her to the custody of a specified religious community, and...
If she wanted to be a martyr and get as long of a sentence as she could, she followed that plan perfectly.
posted by delfin at 12:23 PM on October 5, 2024 [7 favorites]
> one of those "wellness" products that haven't been scientifically proven
> The Tina Peters Wikipedia page is one heck of a read.
In the top "baseball-card stats" section of her Wikipedia page:
> Education Clayton College of Natural Health[2] (non-accredited)[3]
posted by Rat Spatula at 12:57 PM on October 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
> The Tina Peters Wikipedia page is one heck of a read.
In the top "baseball-card stats" section of her Wikipedia page:
> Education Clayton College of Natural Health[2] (non-accredited)[3]
posted by Rat Spatula at 12:57 PM on October 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
yeesh, that's near the worst way to get arrested. see, the arrest is going down. You can only make it worse.
posted by j_curiouser at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 1:00 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
A certain campaign slogan ringing in my ears.
posted by lock robster at 2:37 PM on October 5, 2024
posted by lock robster at 2:37 PM on October 5, 2024
Nine years is a long time when one is 69.
posted by R. Mutt at 3:05 PM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
posted by R. Mutt at 3:05 PM on October 5, 2024 [5 favorites]
I keep seeing Peters, who had two children, described by MAGA accounts as a "Gold Star mother". Her son, Remington J. Peters, a combat veteran serving in the US military as a Navy SEAL, died in 2017 at age 27 in a parachute accident performing at an air show in New York City. From what I understand, Gold Star mothers are those whose children have died in active service of any kind, not just in combat, so Peters is one, but if she's implying her son gave his life for his country or anything like that... it's false.
As for her daughter Cayce... it doesn't sound as though Cayce has a great relationship with her mother. According to Wikipedia, "Peters legally separated from her husband in June 2017 and filed a decree of legal separation in January 2018. At the time, she had power of attorney over her husband's affairs for health reasons. The couple officially divorced in November 2021. On October 2, 2021, Tina Peters filed a quit-claim deed for a home that Thomas Peters had purchased separately eight months after the couple separated. A civil complaint filed by Thomas Peters, which later included his sister, Katherine Egan, alleged that Tina Peters filed the quit-claim deed 'through deceit and deception'. Thomas Peters' daughter Cayce joined Egan as a plaintiff in a civil suit against Tina Peters on behalf of the estate of her father as his personal representative, alleging the quit-claim deed was filed, placing the house in her own name, on the same day her power of attorney over Thomas Peters was rescinded. Thomas Peters died on December 31, 2023." In other words, Peters is trying to lay claim to a $400K house that her dying ex-husband bought after they separated and that he intended their daughter to inherit.
posted by orange swan at 3:20 PM on October 5, 2024 [7 favorites]
As for her daughter Cayce... it doesn't sound as though Cayce has a great relationship with her mother. According to Wikipedia, "Peters legally separated from her husband in June 2017 and filed a decree of legal separation in January 2018. At the time, she had power of attorney over her husband's affairs for health reasons. The couple officially divorced in November 2021. On October 2, 2021, Tina Peters filed a quit-claim deed for a home that Thomas Peters had purchased separately eight months after the couple separated. A civil complaint filed by Thomas Peters, which later included his sister, Katherine Egan, alleged that Tina Peters filed the quit-claim deed 'through deceit and deception'. Thomas Peters' daughter Cayce joined Egan as a plaintiff in a civil suit against Tina Peters on behalf of the estate of her father as his personal representative, alleging the quit-claim deed was filed, placing the house in her own name, on the same day her power of attorney over Thomas Peters was rescinded. Thomas Peters died on December 31, 2023." In other words, Peters is trying to lay claim to a $400K house that her dying ex-husband bought after they separated and that he intended their daughter to inherit.
posted by orange swan at 3:20 PM on October 5, 2024 [7 favorites]
Colorado judge who sentenced election denier Tina Peters to prison receives threats
I wish I was surprised.
posted by Frayed Knot at 5:36 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
I wish I was surprised.
posted by Frayed Knot at 5:36 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
In other words, Peters is trying to lay claim to a $400K house that her dying ex-husband bought after they separated and that he intended their daughter to inherit.
How Sov-Cit of her.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:44 PM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
How Sov-Cit of her.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:44 PM on October 5, 2024 [4 favorites]
I'm not a fan of the carceral state, but damn that was satisfying.
And, again, not a fan of the carceral state, but her arrest was about exactly how things should go in situations of that nature. Minimal force, polite, but doing the job. If only they'd use that approach for people who aren't rich white women I'd be a lot happier.
But she.... wow. It was like no one had ever said no to her in her entire life. Or like Thorzdad says she was living in some sovcit fantasy where since she said the magic words it was impossible for the police to arrest her and yet, somehow, the universe was acting wrong and she was under arrest despite her repeated orders to tell them to stop arresting her. And, I've gotta admit, I thought that was fairly satisfying too.
I can't even say I wish they actually had truly arrested her for obstruction, resisting arrest is such a frequently abused charge it should be eliminated even if it does let assholes like her go.
I also love how she did EXACTLY what any lawyer would advise against except for one single thing. Any lawyer would have told her from the outset to be polite, cooperative, refuse to answer any questions without her lawyer being present not acted like supreme queen of the universe and as if the police are below her notice, nor to throw a tantrum and scream insults at them while making them carry her across to the cop car.
And then on camera she instructed a third party to destroy or conceal the very thing for which the search warrant was being executed. ON CAMERA! I'm no lawyer but I know damn well that as a general rule destroying evidence is a really terrible idea; and telling someone to do it while the police were watching is a whole new level of dumb.
I will give her points, at the very last, for doing the right thing and refusing to unlock the iPad, at least without her lawyer present. Never volunteer information. Of course I'm sure she wasn't thinking, just being her contrarian sovcit self, but it was the right thing even if she did it for the wrong reasons.
Still, given the tantrums, lies, failure to instantly contact her lawyer when the police arrived and let them know you'll cooperate as soon as your legal representative is present, trying to destroy/hide evidence they had a literal warrant to look for I deem her to be a twit on balance.
I hope her lawyers billed her a lot, because I don't envy them the job she created for them.
posted by sotonohito at 6:48 PM on October 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
And, again, not a fan of the carceral state, but her arrest was about exactly how things should go in situations of that nature. Minimal force, polite, but doing the job. If only they'd use that approach for people who aren't rich white women I'd be a lot happier.
But she.... wow. It was like no one had ever said no to her in her entire life. Or like Thorzdad says she was living in some sovcit fantasy where since she said the magic words it was impossible for the police to arrest her and yet, somehow, the universe was acting wrong and she was under arrest despite her repeated orders to tell them to stop arresting her. And, I've gotta admit, I thought that was fairly satisfying too.
I can't even say I wish they actually had truly arrested her for obstruction, resisting arrest is such a frequently abused charge it should be eliminated even if it does let assholes like her go.
I also love how she did EXACTLY what any lawyer would advise against except for one single thing. Any lawyer would have told her from the outset to be polite, cooperative, refuse to answer any questions without her lawyer being present not acted like supreme queen of the universe and as if the police are below her notice, nor to throw a tantrum and scream insults at them while making them carry her across to the cop car.
And then on camera she instructed a third party to destroy or conceal the very thing for which the search warrant was being executed. ON CAMERA! I'm no lawyer but I know damn well that as a general rule destroying evidence is a really terrible idea; and telling someone to do it while the police were watching is a whole new level of dumb.
I will give her points, at the very last, for doing the right thing and refusing to unlock the iPad, at least without her lawyer present. Never volunteer information. Of course I'm sure she wasn't thinking, just being her contrarian sovcit self, but it was the right thing even if she did it for the wrong reasons.
Still, given the tantrums, lies, failure to instantly contact her lawyer when the police arrived and let them know you'll cooperate as soon as your legal representative is present, trying to destroy/hide evidence they had a literal warrant to look for I deem her to be a twit on balance.
I hope her lawyers billed her a lot, because I don't envy them the job she created for them.
posted by sotonohito at 6:48 PM on October 5, 2024 [1 favorite]
Riffing on the Wilhoit quote ("Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.")...
... it seems to me there is a class of person who believes that they are a respectable, solid citizen and therefore whatever they do IS ok, and all you need is for people to understand that you are a Good Person not a Bad Person. As soon as you have explained things to the cops/judge or talked to the manager, they'll get it and you'll be good. Because for them "law and order" is about the order, which is not just orderliness but a genuine social order with the Good People on top, and not about the law. Or rather they think that's what law is. The legal system is a filtering mechanism that will let them go about their business while catching "real" criminals. She's an extreme case but there are a lot of people like her.
These people are actually not wrong either, in that up until they do something too outrageous they can often get through life without ever being disabused of this outlook, which IS how society works to some degree. The biggest threat to and opponent of rule of law is not the ordinary criminal, but the respectable citizen who thinks they are special.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:47 PM on October 5, 2024 [14 favorites]
... it seems to me there is a class of person who believes that they are a respectable, solid citizen and therefore whatever they do IS ok, and all you need is for people to understand that you are a Good Person not a Bad Person. As soon as you have explained things to the cops/judge or talked to the manager, they'll get it and you'll be good. Because for them "law and order" is about the order, which is not just orderliness but a genuine social order with the Good People on top, and not about the law. Or rather they think that's what law is. The legal system is a filtering mechanism that will let them go about their business while catching "real" criminals. She's an extreme case but there are a lot of people like her.
These people are actually not wrong either, in that up until they do something too outrageous they can often get through life without ever being disabused of this outlook, which IS how society works to some degree. The biggest threat to and opponent of rule of law is not the ordinary criminal, but the respectable citizen who thinks they are special.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:47 PM on October 5, 2024 [14 favorites]
.. it seems to me there is a class of person who believes that they are a respectable, solid citizen and therefore whatever they do IS ok, and all you need is for people to understand that you are a Good Person not a Bad Person.
The knuckleheads out side of St. Louis.. State Rep? Congressperson and wife? Something like that. But they pulled AR-15s on some protestrs a few years back? They come to mind.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 10:30 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
The knuckleheads out side of St. Louis.. State Rep? Congressperson and wife? Something like that. But they pulled AR-15s on some protestrs a few years back? They come to mind.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 10:30 PM on October 5, 2024 [2 favorites]
Voting in the USA in 2024, a truly democratic experience.
posted by DJZouke at 5:10 AM on October 6, 2024
posted by DJZouke at 5:10 AM on October 6, 2024
i_am_joe's_spleen It's comic book morality.
The idea that good and evil are attributes possessed by people rather than actions taken by people. If a person is good, then at worst they're misguided or over zealous or something. But if a person is evil then the most innocent actions they take are also evil.
It's a category error to say that Adolph Hitler was evil, he DID evil. It is for the actions we judge him not for some innate property of evilness that exists independent of his actions.
They think they simply ARE good and therefore their actions are, by definition, good. After all, they're good people right?
Wrong.
There's no such thing as a good person. Or a bad person. There is only good and bad action. Colloquially, we describe a person who habitually does bad things as being a bad person, but I argue that's misguiding.
Smedly, Butlerian jihadi They were Mark and Patricia McCloskey, and they were lawyers, not elected to any position (though given how MAGA is I'd be surprised if they don't both get elected somewhere soon). They got low level misdemeanor charges, their law licenses are intact, and later they even got the record expunged.
Which is especially annoying because they maintained through the entire trial that they were 100% correct, that if they hadn't "stood their ground" the "mob" would have burned their mansion down, and Mark snarked:
posted by sotonohito at 10:21 AM on October 6, 2024 [7 favorites]
The idea that good and evil are attributes possessed by people rather than actions taken by people. If a person is good, then at worst they're misguided or over zealous or something. But if a person is evil then the most innocent actions they take are also evil.
It's a category error to say that Adolph Hitler was evil, he DID evil. It is for the actions we judge him not for some innate property of evilness that exists independent of his actions.
They think they simply ARE good and therefore their actions are, by definition, good. After all, they're good people right?
Wrong.
There's no such thing as a good person. Or a bad person. There is only good and bad action. Colloquially, we describe a person who habitually does bad things as being a bad person, but I argue that's misguiding.
Smedly, Butlerian jihadi They were Mark and Patricia McCloskey, and they were lawyers, not elected to any position (though given how MAGA is I'd be surprised if they don't both get elected somewhere soon). They got low level misdemeanor charges, their law licenses are intact, and later they even got the record expunged.
Which is especially annoying because they maintained through the entire trial that they were 100% correct, that if they hadn't "stood their ground" the "mob" would have burned their mansion down, and Mark snarked:
"It's kind of humorous for me at any rate, the charge they finally settled on for me, because it's exactly what I did do. That's the whole point of the Second Amendment. We stood out there with guns, and that placed them in imminent fear of physical injury, and they back off."Not exactly contrition or an acknowledgement of wrongdoing, but they were rich and white so of course their records will be cleared, the minor little misdemeanor charge will be wiped away, and they can still buy all the guns they want.
posted by sotonohito at 10:21 AM on October 6, 2024 [7 favorites]
This is fascinating, and I hope we get to hear about (or watch) many more. Here's a 2-hour video of statements by witnesses and affected parties, both pro and con Tina, followed by the sentencing (I think). The judge is level-headed and asking good questions in a form that might make for poor ratings but shows hope for the country.
posted by morspin at 3:38 PM on October 6, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by morspin at 3:38 PM on October 6, 2024 [2 favorites]
A MAGA-netic mattress, you say?
posted by mattgriffin at 4:34 AM on October 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by mattgriffin at 4:34 AM on October 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
I commend the judge for not saying "are you shitting me, ma'am?" when she gave him multiple opportunities.
Also, pretty rich to hear her complain about vile anger in court after watching her get arrested.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:38 PM on October 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
Also, pretty rich to hear her complain about vile anger in court after watching her get arrested.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:38 PM on October 7, 2024 [2 favorites]
Sentencing video:
You are no hero. You abused your position – and you’re a charlatan who used, and is still using your prior position to peddle a snake oil that’s been proven to be junk time and time again. Your lies are well-documented and these convictions are serious. I’m convinced you’d do it all over again if you could. You’re as defiant as a defendant as this court has ever seen.posted by kirkaracha at 12:41 PM on October 7, 2024 [3 favorites]
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posted by awfurby at 8:01 PM on October 4, 2024 [15 favorites]