FOOD POISONING FOR THOUGHT
October 6, 2024 9:34 AM Subscribe
Former President Donald J. Trump vividly recounted how the audience at his climactic debate with Vice President Kamala Harris was on his side. Except that there was no audience. The debate was held in an empty hall. No one “went crazy,” as Mr. Trump put it, because no one was there.
Anyone can misremember, of course. But the debate had been just a week earlier and a fairly memorable moment. And it was hardly the only time Mr. Trump has seemed confused, forgetful, incoherent or disconnected from reality lately. In fact, it happens so often these days that it no longer even generates much attention...Trump’s Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Age
Yes, a single New York Times article but with multiple links to transcribed speeches that are terrifying in accumulation. Even more scary is the thought he could die in office and leave us with President JD Vance to be dictator on day one and on and on... Scylla meet Charbydis, Marcos meet Duterte.
Also, compare and contrast to the self-swareness of this man whose favorite movie is Citizen Kane...
In fact, it happens so often these days that it no longer even generates much attention...
WereAllTryingToFindTheGuyWhoDidThis.gif
posted by Frayed Knot at 10:05 AM on October 6 [32 favorites]
WereAllTryingToFindTheGuyWhoDidThis.gif
posted by Frayed Knot at 10:05 AM on October 6 [32 favorites]
How’s about we reignite the question of honour, intelligence, grace, poise, leadership, trust, courage, humility, consideration, empathy, positiveness, or community.
Because to his supporters, all of these things are weaknesses.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:06 AM on October 6 [33 favorites]
Because to his supporters, all of these things are weaknesses.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:06 AM on October 6 [33 favorites]
uspol tag, please, mods?
posted by humbug at 10:08 AM on October 6 [10 favorites]
posted by humbug at 10:08 AM on October 6 [10 favorites]
the right wants a new Reagan but this one's gonna have to do
posted by torokunai at 10:15 AM on October 6 [1 favorite]
posted by torokunai at 10:15 AM on October 6 [1 favorite]
Now if only we could get the right on board with the fact that the crazy old man yelling at clouds shouldn't be president.
posted by evilDoug at 10:19 AM on October 6 [7 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 10:19 AM on October 6 [7 favorites]
Some of Mr. Trump’s cabinet secretaries had a running debate over whether the president was “crazy-crazy,” as one of them put it in an interview after leaving office, or merely someone who promoted “crazy ideas.”
posted by doctornemo at 10:35 AM on October 6 [8 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 10:35 AM on October 6 [8 favorites]
As with Joe Biden, I am floored by the idea that anybody ever thought Trump was a stunning intellect of some kind. He was a buffoon eight years ago and he's an older buffoon now. He's always been a rambling, meth-mouthed shithead.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:36 AM on October 6 [56 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:36 AM on October 6 [56 favorites]
Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak. (John Adams via Gisnep)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:41 AM on October 6 [14 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:41 AM on October 6 [14 favorites]
He didn't try to overthrow the government because he's old. He doesn't want to be made immune from the law because of cognitive decline. He's not a fawning admirer of murderous dictators because he's confused.
He is what he's always been, a serial abuser of power. If he was young, healthy, and mentally sharp, he'd still be a catastrophe in human shape, and possibly even more so.
If this is what makes people think twice about him, so be it. But the reasons why he's a disaster for the whole world have nothing to do with the fact that he's old.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:47 AM on October 6 [80 favorites]
He is what he's always been, a serial abuser of power. If he was young, healthy, and mentally sharp, he'd still be a catastrophe in human shape, and possibly even more so.
If this is what makes people think twice about him, so be it. But the reasons why he's a disaster for the whole world have nothing to do with the fact that he's old.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:47 AM on October 6 [80 favorites]
I am suddenly angry all over again about what the media did to Biden.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:52 AM on October 6 [38 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 10:52 AM on October 6 [38 favorites]
some experts consider
can be another indicator
Mr. Trump’s complexity level has remained relatively steady and has not diminished in recent years, according to the analysis. But concerns
This article is kind of a mishmash of “Donald Trump is losing it more than ever” and “Let’s make 78 the new 100”. It feels like a weirdo op-ed fusion that wants to be a list of Trump falsehoods and incoherent rambles but has to be cloaked in trivia and generalities about age. This is the best The New York Times can do, and it’s mid.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:08 AM on October 6 [8 favorites]
can be another indicator
Mr. Trump’s complexity level has remained relatively steady and has not diminished in recent years, according to the analysis. But concerns
This article is kind of a mishmash of “Donald Trump is losing it more than ever” and “Let’s make 78 the new 100”. It feels like a weirdo op-ed fusion that wants to be a list of Trump falsehoods and incoherent rambles but has to be cloaked in trivia and generalities about age. This is the best The New York Times can do, and it’s mid.
posted by Going To Maine at 11:08 AM on October 6 [8 favorites]
What the media did to Biden? You mean save him and his party from a defeat even more humiliating and catastrophic than the long belated graceful exit he had to be bullied into? Just be grateful the GOP happens to have backed itself into supporting a similar loser that they can't do the same thing with.
posted by jy4m at 11:22 AM on October 6 [44 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 11:22 AM on October 6 [44 favorites]
He's always been a rambling, meth-mouthed shithead
Now that is just unfair. He does have really good veneers.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on October 6 [6 favorites]
Now that is just unfair. He does have really good veneers.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on October 6 [6 favorites]
Since Donald Trump advocates for kristallnacht and lebensraum, anyone who votes for him is literally a Brownshirt.
posted by JohnFromGR at 11:32 AM on October 6 [5 favorites]
posted by JohnFromGR at 11:32 AM on October 6 [5 favorites]
Yeah, Biden dropping out of the race was own of the most impressive and principled decisions I've ever seen from a politician. It honestly made me proud.
posted by constraint at 11:40 AM on October 6 [64 favorites]
posted by constraint at 11:40 AM on October 6 [64 favorites]
In fact, it happens so often these days that it no longer even generates much attention...
If only there were a way of correcting that.
posted by DanSachs at 12:07 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
If only there were a way of correcting that.
posted by DanSachs at 12:07 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
In contrast to Trump, who has no ideology except accumulating power and wealth for himself and taking revenge on those who would deny these to him, Vance does have an ideology. He’s the emerging leader of the anti-democracy movement in the US
...
The first step, as Vance offered in a 2021 podcast, is to replace “every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state … with our people. And when the courts stop you, stand before the country, and say” – as did Andrew Jackson – that “the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
Vance has been anointed by Thiel and the rest of the anti-democracy movement as the post-Trump president, tasked with replacing the US establishment with an authoritarian regime.
Make no mistake: the foundation for the US’s first anti-democracy president is being laid right now. - The Guardian
posted by Lanark at 12:08 PM on October 6 [25 favorites]
...
The first step, as Vance offered in a 2021 podcast, is to replace “every single midlevel bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state … with our people. And when the courts stop you, stand before the country, and say” – as did Andrew Jackson – that “the chief justice has made his ruling. Now let him enforce it.”
Vance has been anointed by Thiel and the rest of the anti-democracy movement as the post-Trump president, tasked with replacing the US establishment with an authoritarian regime.
Make no mistake: the foundation for the US’s first anti-democracy president is being laid right now. - The Guardian
posted by Lanark at 12:08 PM on October 6 [25 favorites]
I would have put Robert Reich rather than the Guardian because Robert Reich was the person who said that.
posted by y2karl at 12:12 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 12:12 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
Yeah, if Trump wins in november, I wouldn't be terrrribly shocked if he accidentally injects some bleach on the advice of some close advisor, giving the full four years to the pro-dark-ages wing of the republican party.
posted by kaibutsu at 12:12 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 12:12 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
NYTimes: Too little, too late, dollar short, etc.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:22 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:22 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
Make no mistake: the foundation for the US’s first anti-democracy president is being laid right now.
Which is ironic, as every keyboard warrior on the right will happily scream at you that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY, "50%+1 mob rule" as they describe it, but a REPUBLIC dedicated to ensuring that the voice of the minority is also heard and represented.
While working hard to return America to a state in which their minority assumes firm control and the majority's voices, including those of all of the minorities amongst them, are never heard or represented.
posted by delfin at 12:25 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Which is ironic, as every keyboard warrior on the right will happily scream at you that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY, "50%+1 mob rule" as they describe it, but a REPUBLIC dedicated to ensuring that the voice of the minority is also heard and represented.
While working hard to return America to a state in which their minority assumes firm control and the majority's voices, including those of all of the minorities amongst them, are never heard or represented.
posted by delfin at 12:25 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Also from the article:
....The Times analysis found that Mr. Trump speaks at a fourth-grade level, lower than rivals like Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, who speaks at an eighth-grade level, which is roughly average for modern presidents.
Apart from the fact that is a slur upon fourth-graders everywhere, I happen to know second-graders who are more articulate and coherent than TFG.
posted by y2karl at 12:26 PM on October 6 [13 favorites]
....The Times analysis found that Mr. Trump speaks at a fourth-grade level, lower than rivals like Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, who speaks at an eighth-grade level, which is roughly average for modern presidents.
Apart from the fact that is a slur upon fourth-graders everywhere, I happen to know second-graders who are more articulate and coherent than TFG.
posted by y2karl at 12:26 PM on October 6 [13 favorites]
Do people still read the NY Times? They've been awful since the Judith Miller days and that was 20 years ago.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:26 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:26 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
Not only do people read it, people here defend the NYT on the regular.
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:28 PM on October 6 [7 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:28 PM on October 6 [7 favorites]
Not sure about that tiny frying pan...
I have certainly seen more "look how terrible the NYT is, cancel your subscription" posts than anyone standing up for the NYT on the blue.
People do post a lot of things linked to them but...
posted by Windopaene at 12:31 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
I have certainly seen more "look how terrible the NYT is, cancel your subscription" posts than anyone standing up for the NYT on the blue.
People do post a lot of things linked to them but...
posted by Windopaene at 12:31 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Do people still read the NY Times?
You have not read the Seattle Times, have you? It's like the difference between that and the NYT compares to the difference between the PBS Newshour and the scummiest if it bleeds, it leads local FOX station news.
posted by y2karl at 12:37 PM on October 6
You have not read the Seattle Times, have you? It's like the difference between that and the NYT compares to the difference between the PBS Newshour and the scummiest if it bleeds, it leads local FOX station news.
posted by y2karl at 12:37 PM on October 6
What the media did to Biden? You mean save him and his party from a defeat even more humiliating and catastrophic than the long belated graceful exit he had to be bullied into? Just be grateful the GOP happens to have backed itself into supporting a similar loser that they can't do the same thing with.
Let's not pretend the New York Times was some lone voice crying out in the wilderness in a noble quest to draw attention to Biden's shortcomings and save the country. NYT and other outlets devoted a frankly irresponsible and absurd amount of coverage to excoriating every minor slip-up Biden made while simply ignoring or sane-washing Trump's often even worse behavior. Biden mixing up the President of Mexico and the President of Egypt was headline news a few months ago. Around the same time, Trump stopped mid-speech at a rally, stammered, and then moaned. I mean, just straight up lost control of his mouth and moaned. It was so poorly covered I couldn't even find a news article to link.
Even now, after years of this brain-dead moron getting even more brain-dead and moronic in front of our eyes, the best the NYT can do is a milquetoast "he's rambling more and getting angrier." It took Biden dropping out for them to even go that far. And it's not like outside of the age issue they've been perfect-- just compare the small column they dedicated to the initial release of evidence from Jack Smith's indictment against Trump this week with the wall-to-wall front page coverage Hillary Clinton's emails got a few days before the 2016 election. Or the fact that there's been headline after headline about Tim Walz misstating when he was in Hong Kong 30 years ago by two months-- and not nearly as much attention to the Trump campaign amplifying conspiracies and misinformation around Hurricane Helene that has legitimately made it harder for survivors to access desperately needed aid.
So no, I'm really not inclined to be grateful to the NYT for being the metaphorical stopped clock that happened to get it right once. They and other major news outlets like WSJ and Washington Post have still completely failed-- maybe even refused-- to learn any lessons from the last 8 years about how to cover a demagogue threat to democracy like Trump and the modern GOP. Biden proved he wasn't up to the task of running again, that doesn't mean the NYT and the broader media ecosystem didn't indeed do something pretty scummy to him.
Which is ironic, as every keyboard warrior on the right will happily scream at you that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY, "50%+1 mob rule" as they describe it, but a REPUBLIC dedicated to ensuring that the voice of the minority is also heard and represented.
God, the whole "we're a republic not a democracy!" schtick is such a tired, stupid trope. Not that it's typically used in good faith, but anyone who does bring it up out of ignorance, or who seems they might be persuaded of it, should be reminded of its roots-- from far-right segregationists in the 50s fighting tooth and nail against civil rights for black Americans. That's what "we're a republic not a democracy" really means. It is always, always, whether knowingly or unknowingly, a tool to silence people and take away their rights.
posted by Method Man at 12:49 PM on October 6 [36 favorites]
Let's not pretend the New York Times was some lone voice crying out in the wilderness in a noble quest to draw attention to Biden's shortcomings and save the country. NYT and other outlets devoted a frankly irresponsible and absurd amount of coverage to excoriating every minor slip-up Biden made while simply ignoring or sane-washing Trump's often even worse behavior. Biden mixing up the President of Mexico and the President of Egypt was headline news a few months ago. Around the same time, Trump stopped mid-speech at a rally, stammered, and then moaned. I mean, just straight up lost control of his mouth and moaned. It was so poorly covered I couldn't even find a news article to link.
Even now, after years of this brain-dead moron getting even more brain-dead and moronic in front of our eyes, the best the NYT can do is a milquetoast "he's rambling more and getting angrier." It took Biden dropping out for them to even go that far. And it's not like outside of the age issue they've been perfect-- just compare the small column they dedicated to the initial release of evidence from Jack Smith's indictment against Trump this week with the wall-to-wall front page coverage Hillary Clinton's emails got a few days before the 2016 election. Or the fact that there's been headline after headline about Tim Walz misstating when he was in Hong Kong 30 years ago by two months-- and not nearly as much attention to the Trump campaign amplifying conspiracies and misinformation around Hurricane Helene that has legitimately made it harder for survivors to access desperately needed aid.
So no, I'm really not inclined to be grateful to the NYT for being the metaphorical stopped clock that happened to get it right once. They and other major news outlets like WSJ and Washington Post have still completely failed-- maybe even refused-- to learn any lessons from the last 8 years about how to cover a demagogue threat to democracy like Trump and the modern GOP. Biden proved he wasn't up to the task of running again, that doesn't mean the NYT and the broader media ecosystem didn't indeed do something pretty scummy to him.
Which is ironic, as every keyboard warrior on the right will happily scream at you that America is NOT A DEMOCRACY, "50%+1 mob rule" as they describe it, but a REPUBLIC dedicated to ensuring that the voice of the minority is also heard and represented.
God, the whole "we're a republic not a democracy!" schtick is such a tired, stupid trope. Not that it's typically used in good faith, but anyone who does bring it up out of ignorance, or who seems they might be persuaded of it, should be reminded of its roots-- from far-right segregationists in the 50s fighting tooth and nail against civil rights for black Americans. That's what "we're a republic not a democracy" really means. It is always, always, whether knowingly or unknowingly, a tool to silence people and take away their rights.
posted by Method Man at 12:49 PM on October 6 [36 favorites]
I wish people could just discuss the content of a NYTimes article (or just ignore the thread) rather than turn every FPP that links to the NYTimes into an excuse to let everyone know how much they hate the NYTimes. It's getting pretty tiresome.
posted by coffeecat at 12:51 PM on October 6 [66 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 12:51 PM on October 6 [66 favorites]
He was a buffoon eight years ago and he's an older buffoon now.
Again I must humbly differ. To my mind there is a world of difference between the younger Citizen Kane fan and the present day buffoon. Or a Martian moon of difference than today's version at the very least. While the clip is edited, the younger TFG can speak in complete sentences and has more than a shred of self-awareness compared to the current edition.
posted by y2karl at 12:58 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
Again I must humbly differ. To my mind there is a world of difference between the younger Citizen Kane fan and the present day buffoon. Or a Martian moon of difference than today's version at the very least. While the clip is edited, the younger TFG can speak in complete sentences and has more than a shred of self-awareness compared to the current edition.
posted by y2karl at 12:58 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
What the media did to Biden? You mean save him and his party from a defeat even more humiliating and catastrophic than the long belated graceful exit he had to be bullied into? Just be grateful the GOP happens to have backed itself into supporting a similar loser that they can't do the same thing with.
Nobody has been saved from any defeat; the election has yet to happen.
But, more broadly, not really, no. I mean treating age as Biden’s defining feature up until the moment he stepped aside. I mean the token gesture that the article makes to how Trump mysteriously avoided most of that earlier scrutiny because he’s a physically bigger figure. All of these issues of incoherence and hatred have been present in Trump, and have been, for years. I am angry that a significant number of Americans think “orange man bad, older man worse”, and the role that the media has continuously played in making that their belief. And I am angry about the nature of the narrative as well. I’d rather it be focused on capacity than age, even if only as synecdoche, since ageism is pretty dang real. I do not want to learn that we briefly escaped this particular flavor of fascism for a few years because old is worse than middle-aged.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:04 PM on October 6 [12 favorites]
Nobody has been saved from any defeat; the election has yet to happen.
But, more broadly, not really, no. I mean treating age as Biden’s defining feature up until the moment he stepped aside. I mean the token gesture that the article makes to how Trump mysteriously avoided most of that earlier scrutiny because he’s a physically bigger figure. All of these issues of incoherence and hatred have been present in Trump, and have been, for years. I am angry that a significant number of Americans think “orange man bad, older man worse”, and the role that the media has continuously played in making that their belief. And I am angry about the nature of the narrative as well. I’d rather it be focused on capacity than age, even if only as synecdoche, since ageism is pretty dang real. I do not want to learn that we briefly escaped this particular flavor of fascism for a few years because old is worse than middle-aged.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:04 PM on October 6 [12 favorites]
For another reminder of what a weird, nonsensical alternate universe rich people's publication the NYT really is, please enjoy hate reading this Sunday magazine piece:
Our son hates eggs. Could a dozen French chefs change that? (Archive)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:06 PM on October 6 [17 favorites]
Our son hates eggs. Could a dozen French chefs change that? (Archive)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:06 PM on October 6 [17 favorites]
I wish people could just discuss the content of a NYTimes article (or just ignore the thread) rather than turn every FPP that links to the NYTimes into an excuse to let everyone know how much they hate the NYTimes. It's getting pretty tiresome.
Blame McLuhan.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:06 PM on October 6 [10 favorites]
Blame McLuhan.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:06 PM on October 6 [10 favorites]
Also “graceful exit that he was bullied into” is a heck of a phrase, not a wrong one but one that encompasses a lot of the awkwardness of the whole sordid affair.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:09 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 1:09 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
I wish people could just discuss the content of a NYTimes article (or just ignore the thread) rather than turn every FPP that links to the NYTimes into an excuse to let everyone know how much they hate the NYTimes. It's getting pretty tiresome.
I mean, if you think what's being said is in no way colored or impacted by who is saying/publishing it, sure, that isn't something that should matter.
If you think it matters whether it's part of a disingenuous, ultimately destructive agenda, yeah, it probably is important.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:10 PM on October 6 [10 favorites]
I mean, if you think what's being said is in no way colored or impacted by who is saying/publishing it, sure, that isn't something that should matter.
If you think it matters whether it's part of a disingenuous, ultimately destructive agenda, yeah, it probably is important.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:10 PM on October 6 [10 favorites]
Trump has evolved from "rich, skeezy dickhead" to "rich, skeezy fascist dickhead" to "rich, skeezy, fascist, senile dickhead."
posted by Foosnark at 1:17 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 1:17 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
That eggs piece was hilarious dumbassery.
Back on topic, Teflon Trump truly can't do anything without somehow getting away with it. I keep thinking of Greg Stllson in The Dead Zone and how there seems to be nothing like that that works on him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:22 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
Back on topic, Teflon Trump truly can't do anything without somehow getting away with it. I keep thinking of Greg Stllson in The Dead Zone and how there seems to be nothing like that that works on him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:22 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
Do people still read the NY Times?
Well, Wikipedia says they've got 296,330 print subscribers and 8.3 million digital subscribers, so yeah.
And besides that, other journalists definitely do. One of the points regularly being made by leftist/left-leaning people wary of the current "mainstream media" is that even if the big name legacy papers like the NYT and the Washington Post don't necessarily get directly read much by regular folks, they can drive the narrative because 1) their stories get disseminated through other outlets (your morning Google/Apple/Yahoo News roundup) and 2) other journalists will take their cues for their own stories from what these papers are covering.
So a dozen NYT "stories" about "Harris's campaign is big on vibes but short on policies" spreads that idea far beyond the actual readership of the Times.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:25 PM on October 6 [17 favorites]
Well, Wikipedia says they've got 296,330 print subscribers and 8.3 million digital subscribers, so yeah.
And besides that, other journalists definitely do. One of the points regularly being made by leftist/left-leaning people wary of the current "mainstream media" is that even if the big name legacy papers like the NYT and the Washington Post don't necessarily get directly read much by regular folks, they can drive the narrative because 1) their stories get disseminated through other outlets (your morning Google/Apple/Yahoo News roundup) and 2) other journalists will take their cues for their own stories from what these papers are covering.
So a dozen NYT "stories" about "Harris's campaign is big on vibes but short on policies" spreads that idea far beyond the actual readership of the Times.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:25 PM on October 6 [17 favorites]
Teflon Trump truly can't do anything without somehow getting away with it
I mean, it’s a different definition of “get away with.” Trump will be the main character of American politics for the rest of his life and probably for years after his death, but not because he’s beloved — he’s a subject of fascination, a source of can’t-look-away bizarre depravity, of continuous berserk outside-the-code behavior. He doesn’t so much “get away” with transgressions as he does get larger and more impossible to believe with each one.
The original definition of “enormous” was “outside the norm.” Trump is enormous in that way and would become nothing if he calmed down — and he knows it.
posted by argybarg at 1:29 PM on October 6 [6 favorites]
I mean, it’s a different definition of “get away with.” Trump will be the main character of American politics for the rest of his life and probably for years after his death, but not because he’s beloved — he’s a subject of fascination, a source of can’t-look-away bizarre depravity, of continuous berserk outside-the-code behavior. He doesn’t so much “get away” with transgressions as he does get larger and more impossible to believe with each one.
The original definition of “enormous” was “outside the norm.” Trump is enormous in that way and would become nothing if he calmed down — and he knows it.
posted by argybarg at 1:29 PM on October 6 [6 favorites]
The New York Times endorses Harris.
The NYT must have some pretty compelling web analytics if they're betting the house like this.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 1:34 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
The NYT must have some pretty compelling web analytics if they're betting the house like this.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 1:34 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
(The last time the NYTimes endorsed a Republican for president was 1956.)
posted by nobody at 1:52 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
posted by nobody at 1:52 PM on October 6 [14 favorites]
Embarrassingly for the machine learning expert author the 'computer analysis' seems to have mostly used the highly sophisticated and technical algorithm known as counting words.
posted by srboisvert at 2:04 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:04 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
This off-the-cuff interview from 9/13/2001 is a good comparison for what he was like before the cognitive decline.
He was able to answer the reporter's questions coherently back then but can't even follow a teleprompter now.
Everything that the GOP said about how it was "elder abuse" to allow Biden to run again applies even more to Trump.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:59 PM on October 6 [7 favorites]
He was able to answer the reporter's questions coherently back then but can't even follow a teleprompter now.
Everything that the GOP said about how it was "elder abuse" to allow Biden to run again applies even more to Trump.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:59 PM on October 6 [7 favorites]
Teflon Trump truly can't do anything without somehow getting away with it
There was a time when people said that about Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein (albeit for different reasons).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:06 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
There was a time when people said that about Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein (albeit for different reasons).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:06 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
“Untethered to truth.”
posted by bunderful at 3:34 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 3:34 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
When Trump became president in 2016 I was like "wow, this Trump thing is going to certainly test the indelible right-wing loyalties that always emerge" and... it didn't test things.
I actually admire those few whose policy I radically disagree with and who I would never vote for - Justin Amash, Liz Cheney, Paul Ryan and hell, Mitt Romney - for standing up to this shambolic fascist. I admire your principles, even if I disagree with you.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 4:08 PM on October 6 [8 favorites]
I actually admire those few whose policy I radically disagree with and who I would never vote for - Justin Amash, Liz Cheney, Paul Ryan and hell, Mitt Romney - for standing up to this shambolic fascist. I admire your principles, even if I disagree with you.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 4:08 PM on October 6 [8 favorites]
The New York Times endorses Harris.
Once again following the impeccable moral compass of dick fucking cheney. Has really been 20 years?
posted by stet at 4:11 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
Once again following the impeccable moral compass of dick fucking cheney. Has really been 20 years?
posted by stet at 4:11 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
I really hope he isn't developing dementia so we can lock him up. If he's going senile, that's pretty much an automatic don't-go-to-jail-free card.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 5:16 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 5:16 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
The Upshot.
Kane needs to look taller, the camera must be lower.
dig a hole so the camera is lower, and Kane looks taller,
posted by clavdivs at 5:23 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
Kane needs to look taller, the camera must be lower.
dig a hole so the camera is lower, and Kane looks taller,
posted by clavdivs at 5:23 PM on October 6 [1 favorite]
Do people still read the NY Times? They've been awful since the Judith Miller days and that was 20 years ago.
Yeah. There's some good stuff in it. People here whine that it's too right wing, people on the right whine that it's too left wing.
posted by Liquidwolf at 5:33 PM on October 6 [6 favorites]
Yeah all those anti trans people pieces do make me whine
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:36 PM on October 6 [41 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:36 PM on October 6 [41 favorites]
"disconnected from reality lately"
Lately? How about, always? This is nothing new, why are we pretending he is anything but a liar and confabulator of the greatest measure?
posted by symbioid at 6:13 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Lately? How about, always? This is nothing new, why are we pretending he is anything but a liar and confabulator of the greatest measure?
posted by symbioid at 6:13 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
The New York Times: NYT Endorses Harris-Walz; Why This Will Doom Democrats /s
posted by runcifex at 6:46 PM on October 6 [11 favorites]
posted by runcifex at 6:46 PM on October 6 [11 favorites]
This SNL short from 7 years ago is still waiting to fill in the blank.
posted by jonp72 at 7:17 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 7:17 PM on October 6 [4 favorites]
The NY Times is increasingly terrible. Parts of it want to be somewhat liberal, other parts are all about how great Peak Capitalism is, and how old Biden is, and then Oops, Biden left, and some of the columnists should be exiled to a small isolated island.
There was an article in the last 45 days or so detailing/listing how Bad and Wrong Trump is. anybody remember and have a link?
Trump rambles about Hannibal Lecter and a Canadian faucet. It's bizarre how little attention is being paid. He's addled. and Vance is really a fucker, so I keep working on ;local campaigns and telling people to vote.
posted by theora55 at 10:44 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
There was an article in the last 45 days or so detailing/listing how Bad and Wrong Trump is. anybody remember and have a link?
Trump rambles about Hannibal Lecter and a Canadian faucet. It's bizarre how little attention is being paid. He's addled. and Vance is really a fucker, so I keep working on ;local campaigns and telling people to vote.
posted by theora55 at 10:44 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
I thought the NYTimes is an elite white collar professionals newspaper and basically writes for that audience, i.e. rich elite Democrats.
The way to understand the paper is through its paying audience, that will explain why it is bad
posted by polymodus at 11:45 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
The way to understand the paper is through its paying audience, that will explain why it is bad
posted by polymodus at 11:45 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
"nobody defends the NYtimes on the blue!"
...followed by a whole bunch of people running defense for one of the largest sources of laundering right-wing bigotry in the United States
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:59 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
...followed by a whole bunch of people running defense for one of the largest sources of laundering right-wing bigotry in the United States
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:59 PM on October 6 [9 favorites]
Do any of y'all write to the New York Times on the regular about how terrible they are?
(I'm just saying, I hope you do! Frequently and passionately! It might not do any good but I believe it is likely to do more good than gnashing your teeth about it here, if at all. Or do both. But definitely not just here?)
posted by verbminx at 12:53 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
(I'm just saying, I hope you do! Frequently and passionately! It might not do any good but I believe it is likely to do more good than gnashing your teeth about it here, if at all. Or do both. But definitely not just here?)
posted by verbminx at 12:53 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
Mmm, sure, it's the responsibility of those affected to fix the thing, not the bigots preaching bigotry. Got it.
posted by Dysk at 1:15 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 1:15 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
SFGATE's Drew Margery writes, "The Times cares more about its place in the power structure than in actually affecting that power structure"
Also, "It gladly cedes prominent column space to bad faith politicians who would like to eradicate whole demographics of the American population. It dabbles in trans panic as a sort of weird hobby. And it scoffs at criticism from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party while going out of its way to heed criticism from a Republican Party that would drop a load of napalm on Times headquarters if ever given the authority."
Oolon Coluphid would proably quote Margery in his book, Well That About Wraps It Up For Earth's New York Times Newspaper, which the NYT would be ass-headed enough to list as a best-seller in the interest of appearing unbiased.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:25 AM on October 7 [15 favorites]
Also, "It gladly cedes prominent column space to bad faith politicians who would like to eradicate whole demographics of the American population. It dabbles in trans panic as a sort of weird hobby. And it scoffs at criticism from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party while going out of its way to heed criticism from a Republican Party that would drop a load of napalm on Times headquarters if ever given the authority."
Oolon Coluphid would proably quote Margery in his book, Well That About Wraps It Up For Earth's New York Times Newspaper, which the NYT would be ass-headed enough to list as a best-seller in the interest of appearing unbiased.
posted by zaixfeep at 1:25 AM on October 7 [15 favorites]
I can give you one enormous example of how ridiculous the NYT is these days, by just mentioning one name: George Santos. That was one of the biggest political stories of recent years, with all variety of compelling and cringeworthy details. It was right in their backyard. They totally muffed it.
The reason to check on what the NYT is saying is not because it's a consistently reliable source of information. It's because it's a window into what a subset of ruling-class types is thinking about or dwelling on, which might be rational or delusional, moral or immoral, depending on the topic. At some point, that subset of influential people might migrate away and find another media partner, and the NYT would fade into a shadow like a lot of other 20th century media brands, but for now, it's alongside other publication organs like Politico, a way for regular people to engage in a kind of open source Kremlinology, a way to see what people and ideas are hot fashion trends among the upper class and which ones don't get past the velvet rope anymore.
I'd never, ever pay for it, of course.
posted by gimonca at 4:53 AM on October 7 [6 favorites]
The reason to check on what the NYT is saying is not because it's a consistently reliable source of information. It's because it's a window into what a subset of ruling-class types is thinking about or dwelling on, which might be rational or delusional, moral or immoral, depending on the topic. At some point, that subset of influential people might migrate away and find another media partner, and the NYT would fade into a shadow like a lot of other 20th century media brands, but for now, it's alongside other publication organs like Politico, a way for regular people to engage in a kind of open source Kremlinology, a way to see what people and ideas are hot fashion trends among the upper class and which ones don't get past the velvet rope anymore.
I'd never, ever pay for it, of course.
posted by gimonca at 4:53 AM on October 7 [6 favorites]
I actually admire those few whose policy I radically disagree with and who I would never vote for - Justin Amash, Liz Cheney, Paul Ryan and hell, Mitt Romney - for standing up to this shambolic fascist.
With the exception of Liz Cheney who is actually campaigning with Harris, those other clowns do not deserve admiration or respect. Mitt Romney is apparently withholding his endorsement because
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:53 AM on October 7 [8 favorites]
With the exception of Liz Cheney who is actually campaigning with Harris, those other clowns do not deserve admiration or respect. Mitt Romney is apparently withholding his endorsement because
Romney has questioned the value and impact of his endorsement and expressed a desire to preserve his ability to rebuild the Republican Party in a post-Trump world, said three people familiar with those conversations and his thinking who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private deliberations.I suspect the same is true for Amash and Paul Ryan because those selfish fuckers want to have their cake and eat it too. They want Trump gone but they also want Democrats to do the hard work of getting rid of him so they can skate in and assume his mantle.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:53 AM on October 7 [8 favorites]
The New York Times represents upscale contrarianism. They don’t advocate for change so much as present contrarian talking points for that sector of the population that having an MBA is a huge deal.
posted by coldhotel at 6:42 AM on October 7 [5 favorites]
posted by coldhotel at 6:42 AM on October 7 [5 favorites]
..followed by a whole bunch of people running defense for one of the largest sources of laundering right-wing bigotry in the United States
Up until this comment there was a single comment “defending” the Times. There’s a second comment pointing out that they haven’t endorsed a Republican in almost 70 years which could very charitably be called a defense.
posted by Captaintripps at 6:54 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
Up until this comment there was a single comment “defending” the Times. There’s a second comment pointing out that they haven’t endorsed a Republican in almost 70 years which could very charitably be called a defense.
posted by Captaintripps at 6:54 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
The NYT article doesn't mention it, but this same basic analysis was previously validated using press conference transcripts from Reagan and George HW Bush when he was Reagan's VP. Reagan went on to develop Alzheimer's, whereas Bush did not, and there was a detectable decline in Reagan's speech patterns, which Bush did not have. This was all based on previous, larger-scale studies aimed at detecting cognitive decline and dementia risk in writing and speech patterns.
I was part of a multi-disciplinary team that applied the same approach to Supreme Court oral argument transcripts, and the results were interesting, but we haven't been able to find a journal willing to touch it.
posted by jedicus at 7:28 AM on October 7 [12 favorites]
I was part of a multi-disciplinary team that applied the same approach to Supreme Court oral argument transcripts, and the results were interesting, but we haven't been able to find a journal willing to touch it.
posted by jedicus at 7:28 AM on October 7 [12 favorites]
Sorry to those who think criticizing the almighty guardians of democracy if old amd wrong - but did you ready any of the sanewashing links provided by box above.
Those are such an indictment of trump that there’s no point is trying to convince the defenders of the NYT of their vile behavior in their implicit advocacy of trump and hostility toward Harris (eg every right wing dickhead politico propagandist getting to debate each other on WHAT HARRIS MUST DO TO WIN THEIR VOTE - which is to basically turn into non-maga republican).
Who gives a shit about their ‘endorsement’. It’s just cover for their pretend both sides-ism. IMO. The politico - media complex drives the narrative and they’re salivating over the prospects of all….those….Pulitzers…. Resulting from “groundbreaking coverage of the immigrant deportations of Trump 2”
While I understand you find the criticisms of one of the greatest causes of harm in American life tiring. The rest of find telling us critics to STFU about the NYTs failings also tiresome.
Call me when they call for the jailing of a coup plotting traitor”. Until then let them choke on Hillary’s podesta risotto recipes till the end of time
posted by WatTylerJr at 8:19 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
Those are such an indictment of trump that there’s no point is trying to convince the defenders of the NYT of their vile behavior in their implicit advocacy of trump and hostility toward Harris (eg every right wing dickhead politico propagandist getting to debate each other on WHAT HARRIS MUST DO TO WIN THEIR VOTE - which is to basically turn into non-maga republican).
Who gives a shit about their ‘endorsement’. It’s just cover for their pretend both sides-ism. IMO. The politico - media complex drives the narrative and they’re salivating over the prospects of all….those….Pulitzers…. Resulting from “groundbreaking coverage of the immigrant deportations of Trump 2”
While I understand you find the criticisms of one of the greatest causes of harm in American life tiring. The rest of find telling us critics to STFU about the NYTs failings also tiresome.
Call me when they call for the jailing of a coup plotting traitor”. Until then let them choke on Hillary’s podesta risotto recipes till the end of time
posted by WatTylerJr at 8:19 AM on October 7 [2 favorites]
God, the whole "we're a republic not a democracy!" schtick is such a tired, stupid trope... anyone who does bring it up ... should be reminded of its roots-- from far-right segregationists in the 50s..."
As far as I can tell, it's the exact same people with the exact same agenda. If you did remind them, their reaction would be, "Well, duh."
posted by panglos at 8:46 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
As far as I can tell, it's the exact same people with the exact same agenda. If you did remind them, their reaction would be, "Well, duh."
posted by panglos at 8:46 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
Sorry to those who think criticizing the almighty guardians of democracy if old amd wrong - but did you ready any of the sanewashing links provided by box above.
Maybe you and the person you're criticising can hash it out over some delicious risotto.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:31 AM on October 7
Maybe you and the person you're criticising can hash it out over some delicious risotto.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:31 AM on October 7
The politico - media complex drives the narrative and they’re salivating over the prospects of all….those….Pulitzers…. Resulting from “groundbreaking coverage of the immigrant deportations of Trump 2”
Honestly, I don't think this is the case. There's plenty of material to cover now, but they're choosing not to do it, and major publications like the NYT had no qualms about sanewashing during Trump's presidency.
I think the Times is just a small-c conservative outlet whose preference for Harris is only surpassed by their desire to have a close election. As the Romney story above indicates, Republicans think they can just pick up the pieces post-Trump and continue winning elections as if nothing happened. Outlets like the Times are working to make this possible by ensuring Trump keeps enough legitimacy to not risk exiling Republicans to a multi-decade stint in the political wilderness. And they're just insulated enough from the consequences to not care if they accidentally go to far and actually enable a victory for Trump.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:32 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I don't think this is the case. There's plenty of material to cover now, but they're choosing not to do it, and major publications like the NYT had no qualms about sanewashing during Trump's presidency.
I think the Times is just a small-c conservative outlet whose preference for Harris is only surpassed by their desire to have a close election. As the Romney story above indicates, Republicans think they can just pick up the pieces post-Trump and continue winning elections as if nothing happened. Outlets like the Times are working to make this possible by ensuring Trump keeps enough legitimacy to not risk exiling Republicans to a multi-decade stint in the political wilderness. And they're just insulated enough from the consequences to not care if they accidentally go to far and actually enable a victory for Trump.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:32 AM on October 7 [1 favorite]
I mean, yes, there are vastly better reasons than his age that Trump shouldn't be President.
But if that's what prevents enough Republicans from voting for him that Harris wins, I'll take it.
And since he and his followers kept harping on and on about Biden being old, there's a certain meanspirited satisfaction in turning that back on them.
But ultimately I don't think it will matter. His voters already know he's too old. They're voting for him anyway. They vote for him not because they think he's a really energetic young fella who is brilliant and capable. They vote for him becuse he hatest he same people they do.
posted by sotonohito at 9:56 AM on October 7
But if that's what prevents enough Republicans from voting for him that Harris wins, I'll take it.
And since he and his followers kept harping on and on about Biden being old, there's a certain meanspirited satisfaction in turning that back on them.
But ultimately I don't think it will matter. His voters already know he's too old. They're voting for him anyway. They vote for him not because they think he's a really energetic young fella who is brilliant and capable. They vote for him becuse he hatest he same people they do.
posted by sotonohito at 9:56 AM on October 7
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posted by whatevernot at 10:01 AM on October 6 [40 favorites]