"...but Threads offered no hope."

October 9, 2024 4:29 AM

Tonight - for the first time since 1985 - the BBC are broadcasting Threads, a gritty northern drama showing family life before, during and after a nuclear war. Brutal lessons of 1984 nuclear bomb drama Threads (BBC): "One young woman told the BBC’s Look North news programme: “When I was doing it, it was just a good laugh, you know? I didn't really think about what it would likely be like to see it, and when you see it it's a lot different - it's very disturbing.”" Related: Film's traffic warden found after plea by documentary makers, and the Threads Traffic Warden Action Figure.
posted by Wordshore (75 comments total)

A bit of nostalgia for our old-fashioned nuclear doomxiety as the actual climate apocalypse bears down upon us. It will be interesting to see how people react to the show this time around, with the nuclear threat less present but so much else wrong in the world. I will pass, though.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 4:49 AM on October 9 [5 favorites]

I watched in in 1985. "Disturbing" is an understatement.
posted by pangolin party at 5:39 AM on October 9 [13 favorites]

threads! that delightful light comedy film about sewing, where a plucky bunch of kids get together live laugh and love over a stitch or two

right?

right ?
posted by lalochezia at 5:55 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

(For those of us in the States that want to watch Threads: it's available on Shudder and (possibly) Kanopy.)
posted by Gygesringtone at 5:58 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

One of the darkest films ever made. Impressively so. And as it should be.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:07 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

I saw this in high school. I firmly believe every man, woman, and teen* alive should see this.

I, however, never want to see it again in my life.


* No kids because SERIOUSLY
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:08 AM on October 9 [8 favorites]

Threads is so fucking good. I saw that a while ago. It was very dark and very doomful. I feel like American depictions apocalypses usually have an undercurrent of "and then our post-apocalyptic adventure begins." This? Not so much.
posted by rmd1023 at 6:08 AM on October 9 [5 favorites]

"The Day After" was a walk in the park compared to "Threads".
posted by briank at 6:10 AM on October 9 [20 favorites]

"and then our post-apocalyptic adventure begins" This? Not so much

Survival is insufficient highly unlikely.
posted by CynicalKnight at 6:11 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

I feel like American depictions apocalypses usually have an undercurrent of "and then our post-apocalyptic adventure begins."

Yeah, if you watch The Day After it's also pretty grim, although not to this extent. There's a disclaimer at the end right before the credits, saying that the actual outcome of a nuclear assault would be way worse in real life and had to be toned down to make it to air. But odds are many people missed that little note.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:12 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

It will be interesting to see how people react to the show this time around, with the nuclear threat less present
Winnie the Proust

I feel like you may have missed some recent events in Ukraine and the Middle East (appropriately enough, the same thing that sparks the nuclear war in Threads).
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:15 AM on October 9 [10 favorites]

So this is of a feather with Aniara in terms of just how far it will go to emphasize how hopeless the situation is, eh?
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:22 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

At least in Aniara there's a planet Earth still thriving behind them. sidebar: did you know Aniara is an epic poem and opera?
posted by condour75 at 6:24 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

Oof. I was eight in 1985, so have not seen it. From time to time I've felt I missed out by being too young for it... but now that the BBC is calling my bluff by re-screening it, I don't think I can face watching it.

I might actually have handled it better as a kid than I would now, judging by how I feel about Children of the Dust by Louise Lawrence, which I read several times in my early teens but can't bear to reread properly now.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 6:25 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

I was partially inoculated after seeing The War Game (1966) at the Glastonbury CND Festival in '82. As a thirteen-year-old, I was terrified and couldn't sleep for weeks.
posted by Tarn at 6:32 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

For those of us in the States that want to watch Threads: it's available on Shudder...

Shudder -- the all-horror streaming service? That makes sense, actually.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:33 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

sidebar to my sidebar: I forgot that in Aniara the Earth is in pretty bad shape too, which is why they're headed to Mars.
posted by condour75 at 6:40 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

It's so damned upsetting because of its realism. Like Ken Loach decided to make an apocalypse film.

Threads is indeed on Shudder, but it seems to be the famously bad Severin transfer, which Blu-Ray.com gives uncommonly terrible scores of 2.5/5 for video and a 3/5 for audio. It's watchable, but pretty rough looking.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 AM on October 9 [4 favorites]

It's true nuclear war would've terrible consequences for those near detonations, including those wealthy enough to make movies, as well as worldwide from supply chain disruptions. Yet globally, nuclear war is basically negligable next to the mid-term damages caused by climate change.

This being a UK production, and all the major UK population centres being in the firing line at the time it was made (and potentially now?) it did and does actually feel quite apt to consider the impact of nuclear war. "Sure it sucks for the people next to the bombs" it's a geek if a way to dismiss the scale of horror it would inflict on those people, and just how many people it is we're talking about.
posted by Dysk at 6:51 AM on October 9 [12 favorites]

Winnie the Proust: I hear you. At least people believed in nuclear war. You didn’t get people telling you it was a hoax to start a Great Replacement or make us all live in little bunkers.

I have not seen Threads and probably won’t, since I could barely handle When the Wind Blows. Somehow I got my hands on the comic version as a kid, which did not go well for me.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:08 AM on October 9 [9 favorites]

go forward four years and there's james burke's after the warming, for a different currently apocalyptopical worry.
posted by Clowder of bats at 7:17 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

I had a friend who grew up in Sheffield, and early one summer him and his classmates were asked to be extras in a BBC film shooting in the city. They were excited to be part of a film - some sci-fi, they thought. They came back to school in autumn, shortly before the film was broadcast, and they were excited to see their roles in the new BBC sci-fi film. The day after the screening had a lot of traumatised kids
posted by The River Ivel at 7:27 AM on October 9 [4 favorites]

"Nuclear war wouldn't be that bad" is peak Metafilter, 10/10, no notes

It's almost worse than that - why are you, the people in the path of the bombs, worrying about it? You all dying is a rounding error anyway, geez!

Well, they’re not saying we won’t get our hair mussed…
posted by azpenguin at 7:28 AM on October 9 [24 favorites]

Mod note: Comment and several responses removed. Please avoid doomerish aka "everything is terrible and we're all gonna die"
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:28 AM on October 9 [4 favorites]

rhymedirective: ""Nuclear war wouldn't be that bad" is peak Metafilter, 10/10, no notes"

That's not what they said. They said that nuclear war, while clearly bad, is less of an existential danger to life on Earth than climate change, and that media pays disproportionate attention to the big dramatic threat to society than to the slow-burn systemic threat to the biosphere. Which is broadly true!

As dystopian and horrific as the conclusion of Threads is, it's clearly more hopeful than, say, The Road, the only piece of media I've seen that seriously contemplates the death of the biosphere absent total planetary destruction (and even then it's implied to be through an asteroid, not climate change).
posted by Rhaomi at 7:47 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

Tarn: I believe I watched Watkins' The War Game in the mid 70s at the university film society, which I had joined for, like, films with subtitles. As a 20-something-and-will-live-for-ever it sort of washed over me and I didn't lose sleep. I don't have the carapace for that now, or for Threads.
posted by BobTheScientist at 7:59 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

Memory tells me that I saw Threads and another post-apocalyptic movie, Testament relatively close in time.

Both movies absolutely gutted me. Threads was very grim, and large in scale. Testament is smaller in scale, but equally devastating.

I watched Threads late one night on (I think) TBS. In an absolutely genius programming move, after Threads, they showed Harvey, the most perfect unicorn chaser possible. I stayed up to watch the whole movie just to help wash the horror of Threads out of my mind.

After Testament, I just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed.
posted by Archer25 at 8:07 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

with the nuclear threat less present

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has certainly raised the perceived level of threat higher than it's been in quite some time.

A useful resource: Bret Devereaux, Nuclear Deterrence 101
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:13 AM on October 9 [5 favorites]

As far as the nuclear threat being less present now: people who weren't alive during the cold war may not understand what it felt like to live under the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction. I wasn't a particularly anxious kid, but when I was growing up, pretty much every time I saw a contrail being formed in the sky I wondered if it was an inbound ICBM and that the world was going to end. Those things were actively pointed at us.

So, yes, Putin is rattling his nukes. But it's not the same as living in a world where one of those things could drop on you any minute of any day.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:16 AM on October 9 [15 favorites]

That Testament movie poster is something else.
posted by gottabefunky at 8:22 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

As far as the nuclear threat being less present now: people who weren't alive during the cold war may not understand what it felt like to live under the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction.

*chuckle* The first time I officially Felt Old was when, despite my better judgement, I got into an online debate with some kid who was trying to argue that MAD was a smart military tactic. At one point I said that he probably didn't know what it was like growing up in the Cold War and tried to explain the creeping existential terror that MAD had on regular citizens.

His response was: "I do too remember the Cold War! Why, my very first memory was seeing the Berlin Wall come down!"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:22 AM on October 9 [23 favorites]

Our teacher made us watch where the wind blows, and (the first half) of threads when I was 12/13.

He told us he wasn't allowed to screen the second half because it was too adult, so I went home and torrented it. Grim, and powerful, I'm glad more people get to see it.
posted by Braeburn at 8:27 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

Why now? Because Putin outlines new rules for Russian use of vast nuclear arsenal?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:31 AM on October 9

(For those of us in the States that want to watch Threads: it's available on Shudder and (possibly) Kanopy.)

Or in the Internet Archive
posted by Rash at 8:45 AM on October 9 [4 favorites]

You’ll be wanting [checks] The Annihilation Mix of Two Tribes (the one with a reminder to tag your granny’s body before you put it outside) - with a side order of “I Melt with You” - finally The Quiz Broadcast (remain indoors)
posted by rongorongo at 8:54 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

(For those of us in the States that want to watch Threads: it's available on Shudder and (possibly) Kanopy.)

Can confirm it's available to me on Kanopy through the Los Angeles Public Library.
posted by sigmagalator at 9:03 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

Also on Tubi
posted by Mogur at 9:09 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

My favorite part of Threads is not at all focused on nuclear winter or the bleak ending of generations crushed by famine and birth defects. It's the beginning, where officials tasked with jumping into action scramble to read binders of instructions, of all things, while rubble and fire surge around them. But there's no phones to call for help with. There's no road for a fire service to arrive on.

They are ready. So eager to begin what they've been trained to do when this happens. And it's all pointless and hopeless.

Duck! And cover! A turtle, is all they can be. Until death arrives.
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:21 AM on October 9 [7 favorites]

I'm pretty sure I remember watching this back in the day. Wikipedia says it was on US TV and I would have made a point of seeing it, given my interest in the topic. I kind of vaguely remember it being forcefully horrible, in a way worse even than the American show The Day After which was made around the same time.

I feel like these films are an example of how a topic can be "in the air" at a particular time. The previous 4 years, of Reagan I, had been such a shitshow of Cold War bluster and posturing and competitive penis display, with ICBMs as the proxy for penis length, that people genuinely... well, "woke up" would be too generous, but "stirred in their sleep" with unease about the prospect of the Doomsday Machine actually getting used. That was the climate that made these films.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 9:35 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

A new article from Duncan Campbell, who was a programme adviser on Threads, has just been published by Byline Times (no paywall).

A small excerpt from the introduction:
Byline Times writer Duncan Campbell, a member of the 1984 Threads team that created the scenarios seen in the film, exclusively reveals here never-before-reported secret documents that unravel a deadly faultline in British politics.

For 70 years, the British political class has known but cannot face, and has strenuously tried to prevent the public from understanding the consequences of thermonuclear weapons. Threads, Campbell explains, uniquely put the consequences of their policies in everyone’s face.

The article is mainly about why Threads is arguably still relevant today, along with fresh new historical research about what the UK government knew and when. I can understand people preferring to skip it, as it's not reassuring reading.

(Obligatory disclosure of spousal interest: Duncan is my husband.)
posted by BuxtonTheRed at 9:45 AM on October 9 [31 favorites]

I recently re-watched Testament, and it gutted me. I didn’t remember it being so powerful, and then I thought I really should see Threads because I’ve never seen it, and rhen I started to look to see if it was available anywhere and then I just stopped and I thought naahhh, because there was no way I was gonna be able to handle that. I’d like to watch it but also I think that would be a bad idea for my mental health right now
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:57 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

Threads on Fanfare
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:14 AM on October 9

Both Threads and The Day After shared a single message:

Those of you in the middle of your country, who think of yourselves as far from the international posturing going on in the Big Cities and The Coasts and the National Government, take note. Nuclear war will not spare you. You are, if anything, more of a target due to the nearby military assets in the countryside around you. The damage will make life miserable for those of you who survive.

I keep thinking of John Lithgow in the barber chair at the beginning of The Day After talking about all the ICBM silos in the area, and saying "That's a lotta' bullseyes!" And then in Threads we see people in Sheffield trying to ignore the jets flying over their heads from the nearby RAF base. Both films spoke to the demographic that had managed to elect Reagan or Thatcher, and who had come to see anti-war protests as something of a fringe position sensible people shouldn't associate with.

They both broke the taboo of not wanting to have nukes dropped on your country.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 10:20 AM on October 9 [4 favorites]

When the Wind Blows was a couple of years earlier, though I wonder how much the film was influenced by Threads.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:23 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

I was in college during the 80s, and our school had a large "freeze movement" and such. When The Day After came out, they put a TV in the student center, and watched it. It was a pretty quiet crowd when it was over.

And given everyone says Threads is much much harder/darker, don't think I will watch.

All these rich people and their fucking bunkers. Good luck with that.
posted by Windopaene at 10:29 AM on October 9 [1 favorite]

My favorite part of Threads is not at all focused on nuclear winter or the bleak ending of generations crushed by famine and birth defects. It's the beginning, where officials tasked with jumping into action scramble to read binders of instructions, of all things, while rubble and fire surge around them. But there's no phones to call for help with. There's no road for a fire service to arrive on.

They are ready. So eager to begin what they've been trained to do when this happens. And it's all pointless and hopeless.

One of the most poignant moments that I remember: in a montage of people preparing for the looming war (building shelters, runs on food and supplies, etc.), there's a brief shot of three or four curators in a museum, taking paintings off the wall and painstakingly packing them into protective boxes. You know it's ultimately going to be futile, but they're still doing it anyway; it's only a few seconds, but it's heartbreaking.

And speaking of heartbreaking - this is the saddest IMDB credit in the world.

All these rich people and their fucking bunkers. Good luck with that.

I think there's a brief scene in Threads where some time after the attack, a rescue team finally breaks into the bunker where the Sheffield government sequestered themselves to find that the collapse of the surrounding building cut them off from exiting, and they all suffocated anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:38 AM on October 9 [6 favorites]

Man, Threads. It's one of those films that I want to recommend to people but also can't, because it will mess up your day. If you do decide to watch it, try to watch it on a warm, sunny day where you have plans with other people afterwards. Do not watch it in the cold dark night when you're alone with your anxiety.

The part I do enjoy about Threads is that it is one of the only times that the UK's "Protect and Survive" civil defense series was ever utilized, shown on television in the background of a couple scenes. This was a collection of PSAs intended to be broadcast on TV if the British government determined nuclear attack was likely within 72 hours, but you can watch the whole set on YouTube now. It's a nice bit of historical accuracy in Threads and shows how well they did their research. "Protect and Survive" is also known for one of the most unsettling musical outros ever composed, by Roger Limb of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, who also did quite a bit of music for Doctor Who.
posted by castlebravo at 10:45 AM on October 9 [3 favorites]

It's a lot different than the old FDCA films, where prepping starts with smoking a cigarette while reading a pamphlet with your wife who isn't entirely sure you know what the hell you are doing, then when the time comes simply emerge from your basement and wash the radiation out of your child's hair
posted by credulous at 10:55 AM on October 9

I was partially inoculated after seeing The War Game yt (1966)

yeah, Threads is probably more EVERYTHING than The War Game, but I saw The War Game first, so that's where my the majority of my reservoir of apocalyptic horror went. By the time the Day After and Threads came along, I was just glad the message was getting out to more people.

Anybody who can see any of these movies and walk away from them imagining that anything remotely good or useful could come from even a minor exchange of nuclear weaponry has a catastrophic (for all of us) lack of imagination.
posted by philip-random at 11:34 AM on October 9 [2 favorites]

Russell Hoban (who wrote Riddley Walker, a clear influence on the last 20 minutes or so of Threads) reviewed it in The Listener - link to a pdf.
He was very impressed by it.
(I still miss The Listener - it was a really excellent magazine)
posted by thatwhichfalls at 11:37 AM on October 9 [6 favorites]

Russell Hoban (who wrote Riddley Walker, a clear influence on the last 20 minutes or so of Threads) reviewed it in The Listener - link to a pdf.

Gulp
posted by lalochezia at 11:49 AM on October 9

Hoban also wrote Emmet Otter’s Jug Band Christmas. What range!

I suppose you could say the same about an ICBM, to keep it on topic.
posted by dr_dank at 12:35 PM on October 9 [6 favorites]

The War Game, When the Wind Blows, Threads, Day After. to which I'll add Thirteen Days and Dr Strangelove. They hold up terribly well.

No way to compare the odds between nuke war and climate change, and no need. the odds of existential climate change are 1. The odds of nuke war could also be one but we will never know because if it happens, you either die immeadiately, or soon after, or survive in the wreckage not knowing what happened elsewhere until your group of survivors and offspring dies from long term radiation effects.

We are closer than ever in history to nuke war, with more different nuclear armed agents, engaged in wars, including conventional and cyber and autonomous incursions onto the territory of a niclear state, two other nuclear states are occassionaly directly exchanging conventional ballistic attacks, etc.

There's no reward for doubly ensuring there is no future. I think people in the west are downplaying the current threat of nuclear war because it seems to be supportive of Putin's rhetoric and adverse to NATO strategy, but one can support Ukraine without needed to downplay the stakes. We've seen how the temptation to escalation is very hard to avoid. Russia can end the threat of that nuclear war by ending the attack and occupation of Ukraine. China can not attempt to seize Taiwan. India and Pakistan and China can keep skirmishes limited to small arms. The Koreas can maintain the cease-fire. Israel and Iran can keep skirmishes limited to conventional and proxy forces. The odds of nuclear war aren't 1, but they are closer than we should like to admit.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 12:44 PM on October 9 [5 favorites]

Ah, Threads. A deep cut for my Cold War generation (X).
posted by doctornemo at 12:45 PM on October 9 [4 favorites]

If you're interesting in atomic war threats in the present day, I recommend Annie Jacobsen's very clear and stark Nuclear War: A Scenario. Her story starts with one nuclear missile launch and... goes from there.

The audiobook is even more powerful, as the author narrates it. Her voice sounds a bit hoarse, as if she's been hollering at people.
posted by doctornemo at 12:47 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

Emmet Otter’s Jug Band Christmas

Don't forget my childhood favorite, Bread and Jam for Frances. Russel Hoban had some range.
posted by pullayup at 1:01 PM on October 9 [8 favorites]

"The Day After" was a walk in the park compared to "Threads".

I was about 9 when I saw The Day After and it scared the shit out of me. I saw Threads many years later as an adult and can only imagine how terrifying it would have been for British kids when it aired.
posted by zardoz at 1:31 PM on October 9

Don't forget my childhood favorite, Bread and Jam for Frances.

Whoa - the Riddley Walker (which I found unreadable) guy wrote Bedtime For Frances?
posted by Rash at 1:48 PM on October 9 [4 favorites]

Four of my Druid friends are two thirds through a triple bill of:

1. The War Game
2. Grave of the Fireflies (as apparently some animation would offer relatively light relief, sandwiched in the middle)
3. Threads

They were enthusiastically messaging about this at the start, but have gone largely quiet since.

I decided not to join them, and am watching Carry On Camping instead.
posted by Wordshore at 2:04 PM on October 9 [6 favorites]

one of the only times that the UK's "Protect and Survive" civil defense series was ever utilized, shown on television in the background of a couple scenes.

The beginning of 'When The Wind Blows' shows Jim acquiring the 'Protect And Survive' booklet. He follows its instructions to build an inner core or refuge in the living room, and 'Threads' has scenes of someone building one, too. This was a lean-to you were to construct with the inner doors of your house, and then pile cushions & mattresses on top of that, followed by spending two weeks inside of it until the fallout subsided.
posted by Rash at 2:07 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

"The Day After" was a walk in the park compared to "Threads".

I haven't seen either movie and I'm curious about both. Which one should I watch first? I'm thinking The Day After because if I watch Threads first The Day After might not have as much impact.

This will be my most depressing double feature since Fail Safe and Dr. Strangelove (in that order so at least there are some laughs).
posted by kirkaracha at 3:00 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

The trouble is, none of the people who need to see Threads will.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:42 PM on October 9

I was working on Boomers for the USN in the day. I remember when the nukes were targeted away from cities. The sky was really blue, and the bird songs really nice and chirpy that day. Wish we could go back to that.
posted by pdoege at 3:51 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

What, no love for A Short Vision?
posted by Don.Kinsayder at 3:52 PM on October 9

With all the stuff coming out recently out about tactical nukes, Russia, Ukraine and Lloyd Austin's line to Shoigu after Shoigu asked if the US was threatening the Russians. "Mr. Minister, I am the leader of the most powerful military in the history of the world. I don’t make threats."

all of this feels way more relevant than I ever wanted it to be again.
posted by drewbage1847 at 4:09 PM on October 9 [2 favorites]

Currently the climate is 160,000,000 hiroshima bombs per year, or 2,400,000,000,000 tons of tnt but spread around the world. A nuke war where all sides accomplish all launches and no intercepts would be 350,000,000,000 tons but concentrated into 1 hour and focused on the buts ofnland where people are.

As the Philosopher K. West once said "no one man should have all that power".
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 4:40 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

It's the beginning, where officials tasked with jumping into action scramble to read binders of instructions, of all things, while rubble and fire surge around them. But there's no phones to call for help with. There's no road for a fire service to arrive on.

This part of the film is not unlike New Orleans in Katrina, or Asheville in Helene. The initial bureaucratic messages from those situations should be studied...you know it s going to be bad when there is that silence

The way the film treats character death is also so brutal and clean and awful, and real. The sudden absence.

The beginning of Shin Godzilla also has some of this, but only a plucky protagonist who is there to put your false hope back, so it s more darkly comic in that way, because you don't empathize with the useless bureaucrat

Kudos, Threads. I think I have watched dozens of post apocalypse movies since Katrina, including some really weird ones. Some are more despairing, but none are as cruel and real as Threads.
posted by eustatic at 6:32 PM on October 9 [2 favorites]

The trouble is, none of the people who need to see Threads will.

I'm not really sure that's true. As an American, I didn't encounter Threads until many years after its release (sometime in the early '00s), and the context I learned about it in was Most Fucked Up Movies EVER!!! or some such list that probably included Salo, The Baby of Macon and the most extreme films of Takashi Miike. I certainly understood that Threads was not an exploitation movie, but it was nevertheless a film that seemed like a dare to watch. So I think that a number of people who watch it expecting to be shocked will be shocked, but not in a way they expect. Well, not only in a way that they expect.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:24 PM on October 9

kittens for breakfast, I think the people who should see this being implied were politicians, not Americans.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:36 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

When Threads was shown on TBS back in the 80s, I watched the first half of it. It was all I could handle and I have no appetite to go back for more. It was all my worst nightmares brought to life on the screen. Every time there was a test of the Emergency Broadcast System and I heard that tone, my blood would run cold. I remember once when the tone went off without the “this is a test” message. All I could think was “is this it?” Our city would have likely been hit by three or four warheads at the least.

The threat of nuclear war is still real, but the dynamics have changed. In the Cold War, the worry was itchy trigger fingers in the US and USSR. Now, the threat is more distributed. Sure, the old Cold War powers could start flinging nukes. Or Israel might decide it’s finally time to use theirs and strikes Iran. Or North Korea says “screw it” and sends a few warheads into the south. Or the real big worry, what if India and Pakistan have a scuffle that turns into a battle that turns into a war that turns into a nuclear exchange? Meanwhile, China, England and France still have their arsenals. A big part of the current nuclear world order is that the value of having nukes has been demonstrated many times now. Ukraine gave theirs up (in reality they likely would not have been able to maintain or deliver them) and you see what happened. North Korea has an extra layer of protection now because they present a nuclear threat. I still remember the cartoon where a general is asked why it’s OK that Israel has nuclear weapons, and he answers “You can’t invade a country with nuclear weapons.” Then he’s asked why it’s not OK for Iran to have nukes. His answer again was ”You can’t invade a country with nuclear weapons!” Russia is still in Ukraine in large part because of their nukes - if they didn’t have the ability to attack the US with nukes, the US would likely have intervened in Ukraine long ago. As it is, the Russian nuclear threat plays into US decisions on how to aid Ukraine. Any country that has nukes would be giving up a ton of security if they disarmed. This is the epitome of “thanks, I hate it.”

(From what I’ve read, the US operates under the assumption that Russia’s nuclear weapons are operational and that they will work as intended. That’s the smart assumption to make. With no inside info on this, my suspicion is that some will work but a sizable percentage will not. There’s still enough to really fuck things up. I’m confident that the vast majority of the US arsenal will work and can be put on target as intended. Even if most of the Russian arsenal didn’t work, the radioactivity from US weapons exploding in Russia would wreak hell across much of the globe.)
posted by azpenguin at 7:36 PM on October 9 [4 favorites]

Yeah, it doesn't take many nuclear weapons to fuck things up.

Given how terribly Russia's military has done fighting Ukraine, I have doubts about how many warheads they could actually deliver. But again, doesn't take many working to fuck things up. I think it would be suicide for Russia to do this, (I think ours will work better), but, desperate leaders do stupid things.
posted by Windopaene at 7:42 PM on October 9 [1 favorite]

Adding to the list of similar works: Sir John Hackett's book/novel The Third World War (1978). Hackett was a then-retired British general, who had commanded NATO forces in Europe, and was very definitely on the hawkish political Right. The description at the end of the book of a nuclear exchange, especially the disaster of emergency services being themselves destroyed, all coming from someone with expertise, who had themselves been in a position to order the use of nuclear weapons, is extremely detailed and extremely disturbing.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:55 PM on October 9

Catching up on overnight posts, after an evening watching something a little different to what my friends watched.

@htw.bsky.social‬: News report: Remain Calm. (Mass looting erupts)

@johnpackwood.bsky.social‬: Nothing like a door and mattress to protect you from the apocalypse.

@unfortunatalie.bsky.social‬: They might be about to live through nuclear holocaust but at least they've got affordable property for young people.

@alkennedy.bsky.social‬: So much of my timeline is watching Threads tonight. It's like a particularly bleak Eurovision.

@fubsyshabaroon.bsky.social‬: I was waiting for the gag reel during the credits.
posted by Wordshore at 11:55 PM on October 9

Currently the climate is 160,000,000 hiroshima bombs per year, or 2,400,000,000,000 tons of tnt but spread around the world. A nuke war where all sides accomplish all launches and no intercepts would be 350,000,000,000 tons but concentrated into 1 hour and focused on the buts ofnland where people are.

How is the climate so many kilotons of TNT? It doesn't explode.
posted by Dysk at 2:11 AM on October 10

Seconding the recommendation of Sir John Hackett's The Third World War (1978), it's like Red Storm Rising (1986) without the fabulistic technofetishism elements.
posted by Molesome at 4:00 AM on October 10