So Listener Discretion is Advised
October 15, 2024 1:06 PM Subscribe
The mountains of Appalachia, in an alternative timeline, were never meant to be inhabited, but served as the prison for eldritch horrors from a time before memory. However, as stone gives way to eons and elements, darkness leaks, and a conflict resumes between the Old Gods of Appalachia, with humanity caught in the middle.
A horror anthology podcast, Old Gods of Appalachia (OGOA) is approaching its fifth anniversary telling seasonal storylines and stand alone scares. The creation of Appalachians Cam Collins and Steve Shell, OGOA draws upon the history, culture, and geography of Appalachia as its setting and inspiration. If a fan of punk and hardcore bands from Appalachia, you may recognize Shell's voice, or you may recognize it from his hosting of The Moth Story SLAM or competing in slam poetry. Collins' voice may likewise be familiar to listeners of the Appalachian Arcana podcast, which she produced and cohosted.
Its stories of granny witches and dark voids filled with horror have even spun out into a successful tabletop game that is currently crowdfunding an expansion.
OGOA's storylines are separated between those available to all (approximately 70 episodes) and those tucked away under Patreon (quite a bit, too!). Knowledge of the latter isn't required to enjoy the former. The show has also enjoyed two years of live touring shows that have peppered the country with its enthusiastic vocal cast and foot tapping musicians. The timeline for the show range from the early 19th Century through to the 1930s, though standalone episodes have jumped in time to the 1980s to the 1990s.
Storylines have included a young girl desperate to survive the destruction of her mining town after its coal miners dug too deep (Sarah Avery and the story of Barlo, KY); a powerful matriarch who has a vision that dark forces will destroy her family and sets off to save her children with three days to do so ("Build Momma a Coffin"); a young man who finds himself in the employ of a man named Jack, who trades in deals and promises, rarely to anyone's benefit but his own (city of Paradise storyline). Stand alone stories include two high school boys who discover their school is quickly being swallowed up by a hungry darkness, a haint who just wants to have an enjoyable Valentine's Day, and the mystery that surrounds a door beneath the floor in a family mountain homestead.
A horror anthology podcast, Old Gods of Appalachia (OGOA) is approaching its fifth anniversary telling seasonal storylines and stand alone scares. The creation of Appalachians Cam Collins and Steve Shell, OGOA draws upon the history, culture, and geography of Appalachia as its setting and inspiration. If a fan of punk and hardcore bands from Appalachia, you may recognize Shell's voice, or you may recognize it from his hosting of The Moth Story SLAM or competing in slam poetry. Collins' voice may likewise be familiar to listeners of the Appalachian Arcana podcast, which she produced and cohosted.
Its stories of granny witches and dark voids filled with horror have even spun out into a successful tabletop game that is currently crowdfunding an expansion.
OGOA's storylines are separated between those available to all (approximately 70 episodes) and those tucked away under Patreon (quite a bit, too!). Knowledge of the latter isn't required to enjoy the former. The show has also enjoyed two years of live touring shows that have peppered the country with its enthusiastic vocal cast and foot tapping musicians. The timeline for the show range from the early 19th Century through to the 1930s, though standalone episodes have jumped in time to the 1980s to the 1990s.
Storylines have included a young girl desperate to survive the destruction of her mining town after its coal miners dug too deep (Sarah Avery and the story of Barlo, KY); a powerful matriarch who has a vision that dark forces will destroy her family and sets off to save her children with three days to do so ("Build Momma a Coffin"); a young man who finds himself in the employ of a man named Jack, who trades in deals and promises, rarely to anyone's benefit but his own (city of Paradise storyline). Stand alone stories include two high school boys who discover their school is quickly being swallowed up by a hungry darkness, a haint who just wants to have an enjoyable Valentine's Day, and the mystery that surrounds a door beneath the floor in a family mountain homestead.
This was included in one of my weird podcast roundups and recommended in an earlier one, but it’s good to see it get a solo FPP.
It is well worth a listen. If I have a complaint about it, it is that it’s grown somewhat haphazardly, with call-backs to storylines from years back, which makes things occasionally hard to follow if you don’t relisten to the back catalog every few years. On the other hand, that makes the whole thing a bit like a meandering tale told by an older relative, which is very on point.
If you like this, you might check out Hello from the Hallowoods and vice versa. Their approaches to a slowly unfolding multi-stage story are pretty similar.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:49 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
It is well worth a listen. If I have a complaint about it, it is that it’s grown somewhat haphazardly, with call-backs to storylines from years back, which makes things occasionally hard to follow if you don’t relisten to the back catalog every few years. On the other hand, that makes the whole thing a bit like a meandering tale told by an older relative, which is very on point.
If you like this, you might check out Hello from the Hallowoods and vice versa. Their approaches to a slowly unfolding multi-stage story are pretty similar.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:49 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
I just got into OGoA! And I'm currently running a D&D campaign that's getting close to winding down, looking for what's next.
Does anyone have experience with the RPG? I've read a few reviews. Sounds like people have wildly diverging views about the Cypher system, particularly how good a match it is for a horror RPG.
This review asserts: The era and themes of the game mirror those of the Cthulhu Mythos, though without the racism and other elements that can make celebrating Lovecraft challenging.
Cheers to that! But Alternate Appalachia isn't entirely free of elements that can be problematic in an RPG. I've been listening to the podcast and thinking about how I'd run a game in the setting. The roles of men and women seem roughly as constrained as they were in the real world in similar times and places. I suppose at the end of the day that's all up to the discretion of the GM, but some of it seems pretty baked in.
posted by gurple at 2:15 PM on October 15 [2 favorites]
Does anyone have experience with the RPG? I've read a few reviews. Sounds like people have wildly diverging views about the Cypher system, particularly how good a match it is for a horror RPG.
This review asserts: The era and themes of the game mirror those of the Cthulhu Mythos, though without the racism and other elements that can make celebrating Lovecraft challenging.
Cheers to that! But Alternate Appalachia isn't entirely free of elements that can be problematic in an RPG. I've been listening to the podcast and thinking about how I'd run a game in the setting. The roles of men and women seem roughly as constrained as they were in the real world in similar times and places. I suppose at the end of the day that's all up to the discretion of the GM, but some of it seems pretty baked in.
posted by gurple at 2:15 PM on October 15 [2 favorites]
It’s funny to me to think about Appalachia as a site of ancient horror like Lovecraft’s New England, because I grew up here, and I’m back here again.
There was a tweet of a map, with Garrett County, MD circled in red, and captioned “I want to know what happens here” and the reply “no you don’t”
And like, my feelings about having grown up in No You Don’t mesh nicely with the idea that there are horrors beyond comprehension here, because I certainly felt that way, even though those horrors I experienced here were entirely ones of human behavior.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:21 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
There was a tweet of a map, with Garrett County, MD circled in red, and captioned “I want to know what happens here” and the reply “no you don’t”
And like, my feelings about having grown up in No You Don’t mesh nicely with the idea that there are horrors beyond comprehension here, because I certainly felt that way, even though those horrors I experienced here were entirely ones of human behavior.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:21 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
(Yeah Western PA is in Appalachia too but moving from Pittsburgh back to No You Don’t is a jarring difference)
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:22 PM on October 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:22 PM on October 15 [2 favorites]
(Yeah Western PA is in Appalachia too but moving from Pittsburgh back to No You Don’t is a jarring difference)
There's a town in Western PA that is part of one of the storylines, if I remember correctly. (Granted, the vast majority of the stories occur in that next of TN, VA, KY, NC, and WVa).
posted by Atreides at 2:30 PM on October 15
There's a town in Western PA that is part of one of the storylines, if I remember correctly. (Granted, the vast majority of the stories occur in that next of TN, VA, KY, NC, and WVa).
posted by Atreides at 2:30 PM on October 15
I’m considering spinning up my own Appalachian horror game using some variation of the Symbaroum rules and calling it No You Don’t.
The Savage River Reservoir area looks like a Shadow of the Colossus arena in a way that gives me chills, and I hope to figure out how to get that feeling down in a ttrpg book.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:49 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
The Savage River Reservoir area looks like a Shadow of the Colossus arena in a way that gives me chills, and I hope to figure out how to get that feeling down in a ttrpg book.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 2:49 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
I started listening thanks to GenjiandProust's original post! I'm not current on the podcast (too many podcasts, not enough time, and I'm not always in the mood for the OGoA vibe), but the vibes are in fact impeccable, and it's basically always an unmitigated delight to listen to Steve Shell's voice. The rhythm of his storytelling is irresistible. It's a very good listen for the spooky season!
posted by yasaman at 2:51 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
posted by yasaman at 2:51 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
Never understood the use of 'discretion' in this context. Shouldn't it be listener discrimination?
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:37 PM on October 15
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:37 PM on October 15
Does anyone have experience with the RPG?
I haven't played it, but I have not been impressed with what I've seen of the Cypher system. I am getting to a point where finding the balance of storytelling and system is pretty critical in an effective horror game. One of my general rules is that, if you have more than a page of combat rules, you've probably badly missed the point. Horror games I have enjoyed include Dead of Night (a UK game that's really hard to find in print, but available on DTRPG), Cthulhu Dark, which is great but maybe too systems lite for many, and the Carved from Brindlewood system from the Gauntlet, which did a very solid adaption of The Silt Verses recently. The latter was notable for really maintaining the tone of the original podcast while not trying to recreate the specific story from the show.
I'm fairly dubious about both the Old Gods and the Magnus Archives RPGs, but that may be misplaced.
If you are curious about Carved from Brindlewood, Brindlewood Bay (Murder She Wrote meets a sinsiter cult) is out physically and on DTRPG, and they are currently crowdfunding The Between (Penny Dreadful the RPG, sort of) on Backerkit, if you want to check it out.
I also look askance at the idea that the Mythos (for some variety of Mythos) has to be irredeemably tied to Lovecraft's racism. Hell, you can argue that his largest failing was to not realize that, in the face of cosmic horror, human prejudice is just dumb. There are a lot of scenarios for Call of Cthulhu and Trail of Cthulhu that grapple with racism -- Chris Spivey's Harlem Unbound is a notable example).
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:40 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
I haven't played it, but I have not been impressed with what I've seen of the Cypher system. I am getting to a point where finding the balance of storytelling and system is pretty critical in an effective horror game. One of my general rules is that, if you have more than a page of combat rules, you've probably badly missed the point. Horror games I have enjoyed include Dead of Night (a UK game that's really hard to find in print, but available on DTRPG), Cthulhu Dark, which is great but maybe too systems lite for many, and the Carved from Brindlewood system from the Gauntlet, which did a very solid adaption of The Silt Verses recently. The latter was notable for really maintaining the tone of the original podcast while not trying to recreate the specific story from the show.
I'm fairly dubious about both the Old Gods and the Magnus Archives RPGs, but that may be misplaced.
If you are curious about Carved from Brindlewood, Brindlewood Bay (Murder She Wrote meets a sinsiter cult) is out physically and on DTRPG, and they are currently crowdfunding The Between (Penny Dreadful the RPG, sort of) on Backerkit, if you want to check it out.
I also look askance at the idea that the Mythos (for some variety of Mythos) has to be irredeemably tied to Lovecraft's racism. Hell, you can argue that his largest failing was to not realize that, in the face of cosmic horror, human prejudice is just dumb. There are a lot of scenarios for Call of Cthulhu and Trail of Cthulhu that grapple with racism -- Chris Spivey's Harlem Unbound is a notable example).
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:40 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
I did a bunch of Moth Storyslams with Steve Shell (the co-creator) and a bunch of the voices on the podcast are friends of mine. Old Gods is fantastic and I’m super proud of everyone involved.
posted by thivaia at 3:40 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 3:40 PM on October 15 [5 favorites]
For Season 1, should I listen to Episodes 0 and 0.5 before Episode 1, or are those like... Whenever kind of things?
posted by papayaninja at 3:56 PM on October 15
posted by papayaninja at 3:56 PM on October 15
I also look askance at the idea that the Mythos (for some variety of Mythos) has to be irredeemably tied to Lovecraft's racism.
Much ink has been spilled on this topic, and there's boatloads of Neolovecraftian antiracist fiction that I absolutely love. So, point taken -- you can absolutely roleplay in the Mythos (broadly speaking) without having to engage with (certainly not agree with) its most problematic elements. Taking a half-step away might help with recruiting players, though.
My current preference for an emphasis on the Neo in Neolovecraftian is much more about where I happen to be at aesthetically right now, and OGoA happens to be that.
posted by gurple at 4:20 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
Much ink has been spilled on this topic, and there's boatloads of Neolovecraftian antiracist fiction that I absolutely love. So, point taken -- you can absolutely roleplay in the Mythos (broadly speaking) without having to engage with (certainly not agree with) its most problematic elements. Taking a half-step away might help with recruiting players, though.
My current preference for an emphasis on the Neo in Neolovecraftian is much more about where I happen to be at aesthetically right now, and OGoA happens to be that.
posted by gurple at 4:20 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
Apropos of nothing, I'm playing in a Brindlewood Bay game that just started. Old lady sleuth fun times!
And for really great Lovecraftian fictiion, check out The Ballad of Black Tom by Victor LaValle, and The Dreamquest of Vellitt Boe by Kiy Johnson
posted by canine epigram at 7:07 PM on October 15 [3 favorites]
And for really great Lovecraftian fictiion, check out The Ballad of Black Tom by Victor LaValle, and The Dreamquest of Vellitt Boe by Kiy Johnson
posted by canine epigram at 7:07 PM on October 15 [3 favorites]
I've been listening to the series off and on, and really enjoyed it. I think that I'm somewhere in season 2. I like that it's individual stories, rather than trying to draw one narrative out endlessly.
The Ballad of Black Tom is based on The Horror at Red Hook, one of Lovecraft's more racist stories. (Let that sink in for a moment.) Another really good Lovecraftian work is The Litany of Earth by Ruthanna Emrys.
I haven't played the RPG, but I've read a discussion of it on RPGNet, and the consensus was that the Cypher system wasn't a good fit.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:35 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
The Ballad of Black Tom is based on The Horror at Red Hook, one of Lovecraft's more racist stories. (Let that sink in for a moment.) Another really good Lovecraftian work is The Litany of Earth by Ruthanna Emrys.
I haven't played the RPG, but I've read a discussion of it on RPGNet, and the consensus was that the Cypher system wasn't a good fit.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:35 PM on October 15 [1 favorite]
Very cool. Western PA blurs into Appalachia in curious ways—I don't know how it is these days, but twenty-odd years ago, it wasn't too long a drive from Pittsburgh to truck stops with bare-knuckle boxing and other dubious entertainments just over the WV state line. Now, mountaintop-removal coal mining, gritty truck stops, old dark woods with underground rivers, the opioid epidemic, the National Radio Quiet Zone, and limestone cave systems plus Lovecraft—throw me in some Karl Edward Wagner's "Sticks" and Thomas Ligotti's "Gas Station Carnivals" and I'm digging this mythos.
Hell, that's a short story begging to be written. Why am I still typing this comment?
posted by vitia at 1:58 AM on October 16 [3 favorites]
Hell, that's a short story begging to be written. Why am I still typing this comment?
posted by vitia at 1:58 AM on October 16 [3 favorites]
Charles Carr, the college student hired driver of that famous corpse in the blinding midnight snowstorm outside of Beckley in 1953, might have been Nyarlathotep. Just sayin.
posted by vitia at 2:06 AM on October 16 [1 favorite]
posted by vitia at 2:06 AM on October 16 [1 favorite]
I haven't played it, but I have not been impressed with what I've seen of the Cypher system.
Well, that was a bad typo! I meant to say that I'm unimpressed with the Cypher system -- it seems like a decent approach for a D&D-style game, which is really not for me (except, occasionally, as a one-shot). So, maybe I'm a bad source, but I strongly believe that a system needs to match the genre, and things like classes, collecting loot, and powering up don't really meet the storytelling needs of Old Gods. If you think about the show, very few characters get "better" at what they do -- they might be a little wiser (and a lot sadder) at the end of a story, but it's not like they are a better railroad worker or farmhand or witch than they were at the beginning. The few exceptions are those that have made bargains with more powerful beings, and, while they get power, they tend to lose on self-direction.
Add to this that the magic people have access to tends to be badly suited to "adventuring." It's mostly protection and maybe a bit of foresight, plus stuff that would be useful to people trying to scrape a living in an unforgiving land (like, say, finding a lost mule or easing childbirth). Not really "adventure story" fare. The haints and other magical beings that appear can do more, but I don't think they should be playable if you want any horror element at all (and I don't think the game makes than an option).
Additionally, the podcast leans so heavily into family and community, and the way that bad decisions by characters fall most heavily on the people closest to them, and it's a rare RPG system that models any of that (Bubblegumshoe, which is kind of Nancy Drew/Veronica Mars the game, is one of the few systems I've seen where the players spend as much time protecting/repainng their social ties as getting into scrapes).
It's hard to maintain a sense of horror and dread at the gaming table; having a system that works actively against it is just asking for trouble.
Which is a pity as the podcast is a phenomenal setting that is evocative of both old occult evil and modern industrial evil and has a large cast of interesting, flawed characters who are often trying to do "good" by their lights (even if they are selfish, evil, and/or in thrall to terrible powers), that, beyond being a good listen, is a rich source of ideas for characters , settings, and stories.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on October 16 [1 favorite]
Well, that was a bad typo! I meant to say that I'm unimpressed with the Cypher system -- it seems like a decent approach for a D&D-style game, which is really not for me (except, occasionally, as a one-shot). So, maybe I'm a bad source, but I strongly believe that a system needs to match the genre, and things like classes, collecting loot, and powering up don't really meet the storytelling needs of Old Gods. If you think about the show, very few characters get "better" at what they do -- they might be a little wiser (and a lot sadder) at the end of a story, but it's not like they are a better railroad worker or farmhand or witch than they were at the beginning. The few exceptions are those that have made bargains with more powerful beings, and, while they get power, they tend to lose on self-direction.
Add to this that the magic people have access to tends to be badly suited to "adventuring." It's mostly protection and maybe a bit of foresight, plus stuff that would be useful to people trying to scrape a living in an unforgiving land (like, say, finding a lost mule or easing childbirth). Not really "adventure story" fare. The haints and other magical beings that appear can do more, but I don't think they should be playable if you want any horror element at all (and I don't think the game makes than an option).
Additionally, the podcast leans so heavily into family and community, and the way that bad decisions by characters fall most heavily on the people closest to them, and it's a rare RPG system that models any of that (Bubblegumshoe, which is kind of Nancy Drew/Veronica Mars the game, is one of the few systems I've seen where the players spend as much time protecting/repainng their social ties as getting into scrapes).
It's hard to maintain a sense of horror and dread at the gaming table; having a system that works actively against it is just asking for trouble.
Which is a pity as the podcast is a phenomenal setting that is evocative of both old occult evil and modern industrial evil and has a large cast of interesting, flawed characters who are often trying to do "good" by their lights (even if they are selfish, evil, and/or in thrall to terrible powers), that, beyond being a good listen, is a rich source of ideas for characters , settings, and stories.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on October 16 [1 favorite]
For Season 1, should I listen to Episodes 0 and 0.5 before Episode 1, or are those like... Whenever kind of things?
Episode 0 is more of an introduction by the co-hosts on what the podcast is about. Episode 0.5 "The Witch Queen" is worth listening to prior to Episode 6 of Season 1. I didn't listen to it before then, and while it didn't affect my enjoyment of that episode, I think I would have appreciated it a little more at least.
I feel compulsion will drive any choices here, but the Patreon stories are pretty dang good. They aren't required at all to enjoy the non-patreon stories, but they provide a context and sometimes, introduce characters in a deeper way, that makes knowing them more fulfilling as you go along.
I did a bunch of Moth Storyslams with Steve Shell (the co-creator) and a bunch of the voices on the podcast are friends of mine. Old Gods is fantastic and I’m super proud of everyone involved.
I've never had the chance to meet either co-creator, but the Patreon was such a success that they were both able to quit their day jobs (I believe). Which is great, but what is really awesome, is that it was so successful, they chose to direct some of that incoming money to charity benefiting other Appalachians.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 AM on October 16 [2 favorites]
Episode 0 is more of an introduction by the co-hosts on what the podcast is about. Episode 0.5 "The Witch Queen" is worth listening to prior to Episode 6 of Season 1. I didn't listen to it before then, and while it didn't affect my enjoyment of that episode, I think I would have appreciated it a little more at least.
I feel compulsion will drive any choices here, but the Patreon stories are pretty dang good. They aren't required at all to enjoy the non-patreon stories, but they provide a context and sometimes, introduce characters in a deeper way, that makes knowing them more fulfilling as you go along.
I did a bunch of Moth Storyslams with Steve Shell (the co-creator) and a bunch of the voices on the podcast are friends of mine. Old Gods is fantastic and I’m super proud of everyone involved.
I've never had the chance to meet either co-creator, but the Patreon was such a success that they were both able to quit their day jobs (I believe). Which is great, but what is really awesome, is that it was so successful, they chose to direct some of that incoming money to charity benefiting other Appalachians.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 AM on October 16 [2 favorites]
Paging Mefite ursus comiter to the blue courtesy phone, please...
posted by wenestvedt at 8:04 PM on October 16 [1 favorite]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:04 PM on October 16 [1 favorite]
On the topic of TTRPGs, The Gauntlet just finished a ridiculous crowdfunding campaign where the campaign which reached the last stretch goal of Blood & Coal, a Carved from Brindlewood campaign set in the coalfields of Appalachia not too long after the union action at Matewan. So not a replacement for the OGoA TTRPG, but something of a cousin.
In the interests of full disclosure, I’m a supporter of The Gauntlet and the CfB system, but I honestly think this will be a great game.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:50 PM on November 3
In the interests of full disclosure, I’m a supporter of The Gauntlet and the CfB system, but I honestly think this will be a great game.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:50 PM on November 3
Here's the trailer for Season 5, "Run Like Hell." It comes December 5, 2024. I'll toss the first episode on over on Fanfare for those who may want to chat as the season progresses!
posted by Atreides at 2:25 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Atreides at 2:25 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]
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