United States of America, Inc.
October 23, 2024 5:22 AM Subscribe
Elon Musk can never be president. Born in South Africa, he is constitutionally ineligible for the job of chief executive. But there is a role he can take: CEO of United States of America Inc. Earlier this month, Elon Musk quietly incorporated “United States of America Inc” at the address of his family office in Texas, news first reported by Sarah Emerson in Forbes and confirmed by a search of Texas corporate records. While Musk’s precise plans for “United States of America Inc” aren’t yet known, it doesn’t take much of a squint to see the outlines of his vision. (Why Elon Musk's million-dollar presidential lottery is ominous, by Sam Butler)
Remember that this fascist shit is brought to you by the profits from SpaceX and Tesla.
Enjoy your cheap reusable rockets and fully self driving cars. I hope they're worth it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on October 23 [35 favorites]
Enjoy your cheap reusable rockets and fully self driving cars. I hope they're worth it.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on October 23 [35 favorites]
Elon Musk can never be president.
Born in South Africa, he is constitutionally ineligible for the job of chief executive.
Relying on the Constitution at this juncture isn't the flex you think it is.
posted by chavenet at 5:54 AM on October 23 [69 favorites]
Born in South Africa, he is constitutionally ineligible for the job of chief executive.
Relying on the Constitution at this juncture isn't the flex you think it is.
posted by chavenet at 5:54 AM on October 23 [69 favorites]
I had this feeling I shouldn't open Metafilter this morning. And yet.
posted by Glinn at 6:05 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 6:05 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
Looking for a solution, Land and New Right thinker Curtis Yarvin—a blogger and software developer, who developed many of the ideas of the New Right writing under the pseudonym "Mencius Moldbug"—envisioned a new form of government: a corporation. (Yarvin at times uses “monarchy” and “corporation” interchangeably—describing a corporation itself as “absolute monarchy,” and has recently leaned more toward monarchism than corporatism, if there’s a difference.)
Instead of being citizens of a state, Americans would be customers of a corporation—run by a CEO, accountable to shareholders who would own the corporate government outright. Those shareholders would be the lobbyists and political insiders who hold informal political power today. By formalizing their power, and making their incentives transparent, Land and Yarvin argue it would make government more efficient.
How Silicon Valley Billionaires Became Trump's Biggest Donors - "Elon Musk and a group of Silicon Valley allies have built a shadow campaign to put Donald Trump back in office."
also btw...
From the Black Panthers to Trump: A Tech Billionaire's Family Saga - "Venture capitalist Ben Horowitz shocked many in Silicon Valley when he endorsed Trump for president. Those who know his father, a onetime '60s radical who turned sharply right, were less surprised."
and fwiw, free-market monarchists also seem to fetishize singapore and hong kong.[*]
posted by kliuless at 6:07 AM on October 23 [16 favorites]
Instead of being citizens of a state, Americans would be customers of a corporation—run by a CEO, accountable to shareholders who would own the corporate government outright. Those shareholders would be the lobbyists and political insiders who hold informal political power today. By formalizing their power, and making their incentives transparent, Land and Yarvin argue it would make government more efficient.
How Silicon Valley Billionaires Became Trump's Biggest Donors - "Elon Musk and a group of Silicon Valley allies have built a shadow campaign to put Donald Trump back in office."
As the internet blossomed, Thiel began to encourage a new set of even more provocative thinkers. At their center was an ex-programmer named Curtis Yarvin, who blogged under the nom de plume Mencius Moldbug, sketching out the framework for a nascent reactionary movement — later called the new right — aimed at deposing the cabal of liberal elites running the country. Yarvin saw democracy as a “destructive” form of government, instead proposing a techno-monarchy run by a national chief executive. Americans, he said, had to “get over their dictator phobia.” He and Thiel grew close; Yarvin stayed in Thiel’s homes, and they watched the 2016 election returns together.JD Vance thinks monarchists have some good ideas - "Taking inspiration from neoreactionary bloggers, Vance has suggested doing away with the federal bureaucracy."
As Thiel became wealthier and more powerful, he continued to help like-minded men accumulate their own wealth and power. They included a lot of Stanford Review alumni, like Josh Hawley, now the 44-year-old senator from Missouri, but also others who came to him via different routes — most prominently JD Vance, who has cited Yarvin as an influence himself...
also btw...
From the Black Panthers to Trump: A Tech Billionaire's Family Saga - "Venture capitalist Ben Horowitz shocked many in Silicon Valley when he endorsed Trump for president. Those who know his father, a onetime '60s radical who turned sharply right, were less surprised."
and fwiw, free-market monarchists also seem to fetishize singapore and hong kong.[*]
posted by kliuless at 6:07 AM on October 23 [16 favorites]
You know, if this were a James Bond movie plot (foreign-born villain incorporates United States of America under stooge president for control and profit), you'd say it was simply too far fetched. But here we are…Corporate Mandate.
posted by jabah at 6:19 AM on October 23 [9 favorites]
posted by jabah at 6:19 AM on October 23 [9 favorites]
I'm going to plug "Neoreaction a Basilisk: Essays on and Around the Alt-Right" again because despite being seven years old and therefore the alt-right having moved on to somewhat different terminology these days, it's still timely and well worth the read if you want insight into the mindset these people have.
It's nothing new, of course. Conservatism has always been about trying to preserve, or ressurect, aristocracy. Edmund Burke, one of the foundational thinkers of conservatism was quite explicit about that, and it stayed pretty explicit until the mid 1800's and early 1900's at which point the aristocratic yearnings of conservatism started being somewhat less openly stated (though never repudiated or denied).
It's back to the quetsion of what shape society should be and how to justify that shape. Conservatism says society should be pyramid shaped and justifies it by any number of often conflicting or mutually incompatible means.
Except, they're not. On the surface the divine right of kings seems to be incompatible with meritocratic competition via the free market and both seem to be incompatible with racist/eugenic/genetic claims. But they all acutally fit together pretty well because they're all just excuses for justifying a pyramid with the current top players as the eternal and perfect top playes.
All the various excuses for a pyramid can be, and are, mangled and twisted to fit with one another becuase they all share the same objective: keeping Musk and his ilk at the top. So sure, they have superior genes that let them do really good at business because God wanted them at the top! See? Perfectly rational and no conflicts at all!
But since it's clearly bullshit, they are always in the market for more people to spin out pseudo-philosophy and make up excuses for them. None of the excuses really satisfy, they're the philosophic/social equivilent of a donut: appealing to those who like it but not really satisfying. There's always a need for more.
And therefore we get a class of would be philosophers who make thier money and maintaint their position just below the top by constantly making up new excuses, new memes, new philosophies, new words, new slogans, new whatever so the people at the top can continue to feel morally justified in their immoral position and to try to convince the people below them that the pyramid is justified and valid.
But it's always, at core, the same: reasons why the people currently at the top should stay there and get even more powerful.
I've no idea what Musk plans with "The United States of America, Inc". Maybe he's just fucking around with sovcits or he thinks it sounds cool like he thinks X sounds cool. Maybe he thinks he can pull some fuckery and get a sympathetic Supreme Court to agree that he found a loophole and in a there's no rule that says dogs can't play basketball sort of moment declare that the Constitution never SAID it meant the US govenrment not a corporation name "the United States of America, Inc" when it said certain things. I don't know.
But i do know it's all a symptom of two problems:
1) Sam Vimes is right, humanity has a design flaw in that it tends to bend at the knee.
and
2) Billionaires should not exist.
posted by sotonohito at 6:26 AM on October 23 [37 favorites]
It's nothing new, of course. Conservatism has always been about trying to preserve, or ressurect, aristocracy. Edmund Burke, one of the foundational thinkers of conservatism was quite explicit about that, and it stayed pretty explicit until the mid 1800's and early 1900's at which point the aristocratic yearnings of conservatism started being somewhat less openly stated (though never repudiated or denied).
It's back to the quetsion of what shape society should be and how to justify that shape. Conservatism says society should be pyramid shaped and justifies it by any number of often conflicting or mutually incompatible means.
Except, they're not. On the surface the divine right of kings seems to be incompatible with meritocratic competition via the free market and both seem to be incompatible with racist/eugenic/genetic claims. But they all acutally fit together pretty well because they're all just excuses for justifying a pyramid with the current top players as the eternal and perfect top playes.
All the various excuses for a pyramid can be, and are, mangled and twisted to fit with one another becuase they all share the same objective: keeping Musk and his ilk at the top. So sure, they have superior genes that let them do really good at business because God wanted them at the top! See? Perfectly rational and no conflicts at all!
But since it's clearly bullshit, they are always in the market for more people to spin out pseudo-philosophy and make up excuses for them. None of the excuses really satisfy, they're the philosophic/social equivilent of a donut: appealing to those who like it but not really satisfying. There's always a need for more.
And therefore we get a class of would be philosophers who make thier money and maintaint their position just below the top by constantly making up new excuses, new memes, new philosophies, new words, new slogans, new whatever so the people at the top can continue to feel morally justified in their immoral position and to try to convince the people below them that the pyramid is justified and valid.
But it's always, at core, the same: reasons why the people currently at the top should stay there and get even more powerful.
I've no idea what Musk plans with "The United States of America, Inc". Maybe he's just fucking around with sovcits or he thinks it sounds cool like he thinks X sounds cool. Maybe he thinks he can pull some fuckery and get a sympathetic Supreme Court to agree that he found a loophole and in a there's no rule that says dogs can't play basketball sort of moment declare that the Constitution never SAID it meant the US govenrment not a corporation name "the United States of America, Inc" when it said certain things. I don't know.
But i do know it's all a symptom of two problems:
1) Sam Vimes is right, humanity has a design flaw in that it tends to bend at the knee.
and
2) Billionaires should not exist.
posted by sotonohito at 6:26 AM on October 23 [37 favorites]
On a futurist paranoid note...
I saw an idea for a horrible future presented, oddly enough, by a true Rand/Heinlein fanatic who wrote a webcomic devoted to Randian/Heinleinian ideals.
Shitty comic, but it had a corporate dominated Earth society in which the executives and peoons were genetically engineered. The executives were engineered to be conventionally attractive, tall, and to smell good. The peons were engineered to be ugly, short, and not just smell bad but theoretically have pheramones that made them seem unlikable. Of special note is that the looks, stink, and pheramones worked on the peons too, so they had an instinctive dislike of themselves and each other which helped keep them from organizing to change the system.
I don't think that's actually possible IRL, pheramones don't really work like that, but I can definitely see the Musks of the world trying it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that Thiel, or Musk, or whoever was secretly funding deodorant and soap imbued with what their scientist employees assure them are "hate me" pheramones and marketing them to the lower classes right this second.
It's exacly the sort of pseudoscientiic quackery they'd love.
posted by sotonohito at 6:37 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
I saw an idea for a horrible future presented, oddly enough, by a true Rand/Heinlein fanatic who wrote a webcomic devoted to Randian/Heinleinian ideals.
Shitty comic, but it had a corporate dominated Earth society in which the executives and peoons were genetically engineered. The executives were engineered to be conventionally attractive, tall, and to smell good. The peons were engineered to be ugly, short, and not just smell bad but theoretically have pheramones that made them seem unlikable. Of special note is that the looks, stink, and pheramones worked on the peons too, so they had an instinctive dislike of themselves and each other which helped keep them from organizing to change the system.
I don't think that's actually possible IRL, pheramones don't really work like that, but I can definitely see the Musks of the world trying it. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that Thiel, or Musk, or whoever was secretly funding deodorant and soap imbued with what their scientist employees assure them are "hate me" pheramones and marketing them to the lower classes right this second.
It's exacly the sort of pseudoscientiic quackery they'd love.
posted by sotonohito at 6:37 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Billionaires should not exist.
No worries, he's on track to be a trillionaire by next year.
posted by archimago at 6:41 AM on October 23 [5 favorites]
No worries, he's on track to be a trillionaire by next year.
posted by archimago at 6:41 AM on October 23 [5 favorites]
NPR about Musk's million-dollar petition lottery, and whether it's legal (spoiler: it's not, but when the penalty is a fine, it's only illegal for poor people).
posted by box at 6:50 AM on October 23 [17 favorites]
posted by box at 6:50 AM on October 23 [17 favorites]
Behind the Bastards did a Yarvin set of episodes recently. Very helpful for me, as I was just having a Vancian panic attack a few months ago.
posted by cobaltnine at 6:55 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
posted by cobaltnine at 6:55 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
It’s like Google Will Eat Itself, but for the US government.
Weirdly, when Ubermorgen created a fake ebay for Americans to auction their votes, they were banned from travel to the US and criticised endlessly. Now, the equally non-eligible yet humourless Musk can do the same thing, for real, but without any issues or repercussions at all. I guess Citizens United really permitted complete corruption of the political system.
posted by davemee at 7:06 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
Weirdly, when Ubermorgen created a fake ebay for Americans to auction their votes, they were banned from travel to the US and criticised endlessly. Now, the equally non-eligible yet humourless Musk can do the same thing, for real, but without any issues or repercussions at all. I guess Citizens United really permitted complete corruption of the political system.
posted by davemee at 7:06 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
No worries, he's on track to be a trillionaire by next year.
My hope is that TFG loses the election despite all the money Elroy has been pouring into it, Twitter basically crashes and burns and/or is bought for pennies on the dollar, and EM finds his net worth considerably diminished with nothing to show for it but everyone on the planet having realized he's a useless tool.
posted by orange swan at 7:10 AM on October 23 [24 favorites]
My hope is that TFG loses the election despite all the money Elroy has been pouring into it, Twitter basically crashes and burns and/or is bought for pennies on the dollar, and EM finds his net worth considerably diminished with nothing to show for it but everyone on the planet having realized he's a useless tool.
posted by orange swan at 7:10 AM on October 23 [24 favorites]
You know, if this were a James Bond movie plot (foreign-born villain incorporates United States of America under stooge president for control and profit), you'd say it was simply too far fetched.
At least the James Bond villain would have a good chance of being cool.
We don't even get that. We get an idiot who's so desperate for validation that he makes the staff of Twitter tweak the algorithm to promote his content. Who, when he lost a twitter poll, announced that he was going to restrict voting in twitter polls to people who like him.
I'm reminded of the Kendrick Lamar diss toward Drake: "Oh, you thought the money, the power or fame would make you go away?" None of that has made Elon cool. The man is jumping around on stage behind Trump, who once bragged that he could make him "drop to his knees and beg." It's not exactly kneeling but I guess Trump was right, and Elon is just that hungry for an audience who doesn't see him for who he really is.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:19 AM on October 23 [7 favorites]
At least the James Bond villain would have a good chance of being cool.
We don't even get that. We get an idiot who's so desperate for validation that he makes the staff of Twitter tweak the algorithm to promote his content. Who, when he lost a twitter poll, announced that he was going to restrict voting in twitter polls to people who like him.
I'm reminded of the Kendrick Lamar diss toward Drake: "Oh, you thought the money, the power or fame would make you go away?" None of that has made Elon cool. The man is jumping around on stage behind Trump, who once bragged that he could make him "drop to his knees and beg." It's not exactly kneeling but I guess Trump was right, and Elon is just that hungry for an audience who doesn't see him for who he really is.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:19 AM on October 23 [7 favorites]
re: "whether it's legal"
@peter@thepit.social: "the problem is, when you frame something as the opinion of 'experts', the implication is that there is some debate or uncertainty about what is going on here. in the case of Musk paying voters to register (or a man keeping a woman tied up in basement for six months), there is no uncertainty. you don't need an expert. it is **clearly** illegal. what's uncertain is whether the American legal system will be able to enforce the law on the richest man in the world."
@dangillmor@mastodon.social: "It amazes me that essentially NONE of the news articles that say anything about Trump's fascist plans also note key context: The Supreme Court wrote a new amendment to the Constitution that gives him a get-out-of-jail-free card for the crimes he's planning to commit. Zero accountability for crimes against democracy, adversaries, immigrants, and so much more -- not to mention even more rampant corruption than the unparalleled amount he engaged in the first time around."*
> But it's always, at core, the same: reasons why the people currently at the top should stay there and get even more powerful.
the purpose of the system is the projection of power.
@interfluidity@zirk.us: "the main case people make for capitalism is that it gets incentives right to encourage people to act, to produce. but a capitalism under which the key to wealth is riding number-go-up by owning the right assets engenders very different incentives than to act, to produce."
Chris Dillow on rentier capitalism: "We're handing so much money over to owners of prime residential or commercial land, to owners of oil and gas fields, intellectual property and infrastructure that there isn't enough left to create enough demand for dynamic sectors of the economy."
-Rule-of-law is incompatible with a sharply polarized two-party system
-A Westphalian order is project enough
posted by kliuless at 7:26 AM on October 23 [17 favorites]
@peter@thepit.social: "the problem is, when you frame something as the opinion of 'experts', the implication is that there is some debate or uncertainty about what is going on here. in the case of Musk paying voters to register (or a man keeping a woman tied up in basement for six months), there is no uncertainty. you don't need an expert. it is **clearly** illegal. what's uncertain is whether the American legal system will be able to enforce the law on the richest man in the world."
@dangillmor@mastodon.social: "It amazes me that essentially NONE of the news articles that say anything about Trump's fascist plans also note key context: The Supreme Court wrote a new amendment to the Constitution that gives him a get-out-of-jail-free card for the crimes he's planning to commit. Zero accountability for crimes against democracy, adversaries, immigrants, and so much more -- not to mention even more rampant corruption than the unparalleled amount he engaged in the first time around."*
> But it's always, at core, the same: reasons why the people currently at the top should stay there and get even more powerful.
the purpose of the system is the projection of power.
@interfluidity@zirk.us: "the main case people make for capitalism is that it gets incentives right to encourage people to act, to produce. but a capitalism under which the key to wealth is riding number-go-up by owning the right assets engenders very different incentives than to act, to produce."
Chris Dillow on rentier capitalism: "We're handing so much money over to owners of prime residential or commercial land, to owners of oil and gas fields, intellectual property and infrastructure that there isn't enough left to create enough demand for dynamic sectors of the economy."
- An Epic Dystopia - "How a near-monopoly gained control of most of the nation's electronic medical records, to the detriment of medical practice and doctor morale."
- Confidential Files Detail PBMs' Backroom Negotiations—and Their Role in the Opioid Crisis - "PBMs are under the microscope for allegedly inflating drug prices. New Barron's reporting raises broader questions about the industry—and its role in the opioid crisis."
No matter who wins the presidency, the nation is going in two different directions. That’s because more states have fallen under one-party control — either Republican or Democrat — than at any time in modern US history. The shifting dynamic is suppressing competition in elections, discouraging voter engagement and, in too many places, enabling the party in power to ignore perspectives outside of their base. In short, political choice is vanishing.-The New York Times' first article about Hitler's rise is absolutely stunning
In 40 “trifecta” states — where both chambers of the legislature and governor’s office are controlled by a single party — compromise has lost its luster, and large groups of voters are being sidelined with little influence over the decisions that affect their lives.1
The result is representative democracy’s steady erosion, in which geography determines destiny for 82% of the American population — 41% live under Democratic control in 17 states and 41% under Republicans in 23 states. This divide is clear in a trove of state-level data on elections and legislation that reveals a nation not only splitting along party lines but also over the importance of democratic representation itself.
-Rule-of-law is incompatible with a sharply polarized two-party system
-A Westphalian order is project enough
posted by kliuless at 7:26 AM on October 23 [17 favorites]
"This government will commence in a moderate aristocracy; it is at present impossible to foresee whether it will, in its operation, produce a monarchy or a corrupt oppressive aristocracy: it will most probably vibrate some years between the two, and then terminate in the one or the other." -George Mason
posted by credulous at 7:45 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 7:45 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
This place is not safe anymore; there are too many billionaires running around on the loose.
posted by notyou at 7:54 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
posted by notyou at 7:54 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
The Drudge Report's front page at the moment has a picture of Hitler & the headlines: TRUMP: 'HITLER DID SOME GOOD THINGS' & BLAME THE JEWS IF I LOSE
Surley this... &c
posted by chavenet at 7:56 AM on October 23 [8 favorites]
Surley this... &c
posted by chavenet at 7:56 AM on October 23 [8 favorites]
*sigh* One more time...Jennifer Government was not an instruction manual.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:00 AM on October 23 [10 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:00 AM on October 23 [10 favorites]
The way people simp for billionaires I just don't get. It's got huge "SENPAI PICK ME" energy.
posted by Kitteh at 8:23 AM on October 23 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:23 AM on October 23 [7 favorites]
wow metafilter has a real problem with class genocidal attitudes against billionaires
but yes, they shouldn't exist. nothing brings into stark relief better that some people are more equal under the law than others than the fact billionaires can commit crimes with impunity, twist rhetoric and language to act as if they are the oppressed class, and deliberately shatter the foundations of government all in the name of cancerous "economic growth at all costs"
if only high-impact radiotherapy were approved for that lot
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:27 AM on October 23 [11 favorites]
but yes, they shouldn't exist. nothing brings into stark relief better that some people are more equal under the law than others than the fact billionaires can commit crimes with impunity, twist rhetoric and language to act as if they are the oppressed class, and deliberately shatter the foundations of government all in the name of cancerous "economic growth at all costs"
if only high-impact radiotherapy were approved for that lot
posted by i used to be someone else at 8:27 AM on October 23 [11 favorites]
"SENPAI PICK ME" energy is the point. Some people will always simp for billionaires and respond to authoritarianism because they do not look at themselves as exploited proletariat but as temporarily demoted alphas striving to be uplifted.
(also customary previously to the FPP on "Who Goes Nazi?")
posted by bl1nk at 8:33 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
(also customary previously to the FPP on "Who Goes Nazi?")
posted by bl1nk at 8:33 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Elon supports Trump because he can't run for president himself.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:35 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:35 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
Why Elon Musk's million-dollar presidential lottery is ominous
I mean, it’s not like that sounds dystopian or anything
posted by mubba at 8:36 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
I mean, it’s not like that sounds dystopian or anything
posted by mubba at 8:36 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
Given his level of business acimen, it’ll probably be broke and on life support within a year. After all, look how (not) well Xitter is doing under his stewardship. All he has to do is open his mouth and he’ll piss someone off.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 8:38 AM on October 23
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 8:38 AM on October 23
Also note that Elon's quieter friend who has also been the sponsor for such MAGA-heads as Josh Hawley and JD Vance, Peter Thiel, was born in Frankfurt, Germany and is also ineligible to be President but has essentially treated Trump as his authoritarian project. Thiel ran Palantir when it hacked Facebook to swing social media in favor of Trump.
Elon is the jester with a puppet who thinks himself the puppet master. Thiel is running the circus.
posted by bl1nk at 8:41 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Elon is the jester with a puppet who thinks himself the puppet master. Thiel is running the circus.
posted by bl1nk at 8:41 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
i used to be someone else
Please don't be maliciously obtuse.
The method of ending the existence of billionaires is to tax any wealth over, say, $500,000,000 at 100%. No genocide required.
posted by sotonohito at 8:45 AM on October 23 [22 favorites]
Please don't be maliciously obtuse.
The method of ending the existence of billionaires is to tax any wealth over, say, $500,000,000 at 100%. No genocide required.
posted by sotonohito at 8:45 AM on October 23 [22 favorites]
Please don't be maliciously obtuse.
Yes, that would be a titanic mistake.
posted by mittens at 9:01 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
Yes, that would be a titanic mistake.
posted by mittens at 9:01 AM on October 23 [6 favorites]
Where is all the slack coming from?
Trump is (and always has been) over-leveraged and has huge court costs and legal fees. Musk not only wildly overpaid for Twitter with other people's money, but he's since destroyed billions of dollars in value and he's impacting the share price of his one publicly-traded company. Who the fuck is enabling these guys?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:08 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Trump is (and always has been) over-leveraged and has huge court costs and legal fees. Musk not only wildly overpaid for Twitter with other people's money, but he's since destroyed billions of dollars in value and he's impacting the share price of his one publicly-traded company. Who the fuck is enabling these guys?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:08 AM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Who the fuck is enabling these guys?For Trump, it's his donors. He has been able to raise so much by sending out emails making himself a martyr to democracy. Some of that is grassroots but the rest are the Adelsons and Kochs and Marc Andreseens who either love him or are loyal donors to the Republicans; and Trump's takeover of the RNC allows him to leech off of it like a vampire squid.
For Elon and Thiel, it's the stock market. Sure they have a bunch of equity in the companies that they own but as any investor knows, diversification is key. So even if Twitter tanks, SpaceX, Tesla, PayPal, etc can keep Elon buoyed up.
And besides Elon has only chipped in like, what, $300 million? $500 mill? for the America PAC? His net worth is $242 billion. This whole experiment of fucking our democracy is making a dent in his net worth the way a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant hits our pocket books.
posted by bl1nk at 9:31 AM on October 23 [13 favorites]
Somewhere, sovereign citizens are doom dance celebrating because their paranoid fables are suddenly an inch closer to being real.
posted by Atreides at 10:06 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 10:06 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
Thiel is also funding the redpilled Palmer Luckey and his LotR-themed drone armies.
posted by credulous at 10:07 AM on October 23 [1 favorite]
posted by credulous at 10:07 AM on October 23 [1 favorite]
It's a seriously scary bunch of people. That Verge article above links to this 2022 Vanity Fair article about the new right if you'd like a long read on it. The worst thing about it is that they're on the verge of power, and are probably going to be pretty effective at implementing their ideas. For example, the "Schedule F" plan is basically a starter version of Yarvin's RAGE plan, and will be pushed much further in that direction by Elon's DOGE. I don't think a bunch of monarchists have any intention of peacefully reliquishing power once 2028 rolls around.
posted by netowl at 10:09 AM on October 23 [5 favorites]
posted by netowl at 10:09 AM on October 23 [5 favorites]
Please don't be maliciously obtuse.
sorry not sorry, it's one of my favorite memes from this place
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:12 AM on October 23 [15 favorites]
sorry not sorry, it's one of my favorite memes from this place
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:12 AM on October 23 [15 favorites]
The method of ending the existence of billionaires is to tax any wealth over, say, $500,000,000 at 100%. No genocide required.
as far as the second half of this, i'm wholly in agreement. but i also stand by the notion that most, if not all, silicon valley billionaires are the cancerous terminus of techbro capitalism and provide no value or benefit, but rather only destruction to society as a whole.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:17 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
as far as the second half of this, i'm wholly in agreement. but i also stand by the notion that most, if not all, silicon valley billionaires are the cancerous terminus of techbro capitalism and provide no value or benefit, but rather only destruction to society as a whole.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:17 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
Remember that this fascist shit is brought to you by the profits from SpaceX and Tesla.
Is it just me, or are Teslas kind of shitty? Their design is either boring or ugly. The door handles look slim and fragile and I'm afraid I'll break them off. I've had a couple of Teslas on Uber/Lyft rides, and the back seat is cramped and uncomfortable. What's the appeal?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
Is it just me, or are Teslas kind of shitty? Their design is either boring or ugly. The door handles look slim and fragile and I'm afraid I'll break them off. I've had a couple of Teslas on Uber/Lyft rides, and the back seat is cramped and uncomfortable. What's the appeal?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:44 AM on October 23 [4 favorites]
Boycott the bastard. Enough is enough.
posted by elmono at 10:49 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
posted by elmono at 10:49 AM on October 23 [3 favorites]
James Carville: Three Reasons I’m Certain Kamala Harris Will Win
posted by chavenet at 10:52 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 10:52 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
>Their design is either boring or ugly. The door handles look slim and fragile and I'm afraid I'll break them off
they're more prongs than handles yes. My Model Y looks quite ugly next to a RAV-4, but alas Toyota doesn't offer a full-electric SUV any more (they used to sell a Tesla powertrain BEV RAV-4 in California 10 years ago, but it was a compliance car).
I'd really love a BEV Audi A5 coupe, or even better, a BEV Nissan Z . . . but nobody makes that either.
This Saturday I drove the 400 miles down to Lompoc and back to catch a rocket landing, for a total cost of $20 at the superchargers . . . access to NACS is a prerequisite, and I also like Tesla's "auto-pilot" lane-keeping, though I haven't tried competitors' to see how that stacks up.
Legacy's inability to get their act together with all-electric is really something. Guess it's harder than it looks.
posted by torokunai at 11:37 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
they're more prongs than handles yes. My Model Y looks quite ugly next to a RAV-4, but alas Toyota doesn't offer a full-electric SUV any more (they used to sell a Tesla powertrain BEV RAV-4 in California 10 years ago, but it was a compliance car).
I'd really love a BEV Audi A5 coupe, or even better, a BEV Nissan Z . . . but nobody makes that either.
This Saturday I drove the 400 miles down to Lompoc and back to catch a rocket landing, for a total cost of $20 at the superchargers . . . access to NACS is a prerequisite, and I also like Tesla's "auto-pilot" lane-keeping, though I haven't tried competitors' to see how that stacks up.
Legacy's inability to get their act together with all-electric is really something. Guess it's harder than it looks.
posted by torokunai at 11:37 AM on October 23 [2 favorites]
If Trump steaks were actually good, would people be stanning them as much as Tesla and SpaceX get stanned?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:44 AM on October 23
posted by RonButNotStupid at 11:44 AM on October 23
Trump’s gift is not selling steaks (or vodka, or even crypto). Trump’s gift has always been selling Trump.
posted by Eikonaut at 12:17 PM on October 23 [5 favorites]
posted by Eikonaut at 12:17 PM on October 23 [5 favorites]
its calvin ball all the way down, law is just a game powerful use to make the guilible more predictable/controllable, like saying if you sit wuietly on the train work hard at the camp, Auschwitz will set you free and give you a pension. No need to stammer "but but the rules said..." there are no rules for powerful people, and its apparently rude to even advocate bringing them to account for their actions.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 12:22 PM on October 23 [2 favorites]
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 12:22 PM on October 23 [2 favorites]
Justice Department warns Elon Musk that his $1 million giveaway to registered voters may be illegal
Ooh, a strongly-worded letter! Gotcha now!
posted by credulous at 12:54 PM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Ooh, a strongly-worded letter! Gotcha now!
posted by credulous at 12:54 PM on October 23 [12 favorites]
Here's a question. Let's say it's February 2025. Kamala Harris kicks up her heels at Rutherford B. Hayes' desk having eked out a 25,000 vote victory in Pennsylvania and US institutions having withstood the massive legal--and hopefully just minorly physical--onslaught of people trying to overturn the election.
Is Kamala Harris reckoning with her party's role in creating the billionaire class whose standard-bearer just tried to literally buy votes by lottery? Because this is the thing I don't understand. I know the Democratic Party is full of individual actors with a variety of things hampering their collective ability to govern (including not having durable majorities). But I also just feel like the party's various mascots live in a different epistemic reality where the worship of wealthy people, the dismantling of organized labor, and the hollowing out of entire regions has NOT compromised their ability to gain and hold power, or OUR ability to keep a fragile democracy in place. I just don't get it.
posted by kensington314 at 1:20 PM on October 23 [13 favorites]
Is Kamala Harris reckoning with her party's role in creating the billionaire class whose standard-bearer just tried to literally buy votes by lottery? Because this is the thing I don't understand. I know the Democratic Party is full of individual actors with a variety of things hampering their collective ability to govern (including not having durable majorities). But I also just feel like the party's various mascots live in a different epistemic reality where the worship of wealthy people, the dismantling of organized labor, and the hollowing out of entire regions has NOT compromised their ability to gain and hold power, or OUR ability to keep a fragile democracy in place. I just don't get it.
posted by kensington314 at 1:20 PM on October 23 [13 favorites]
One thing that gives me hope that Trump is utterly cooked is the absolute desperation of the actions his surrogates are making to drive people to vote for him.
Do you think having Elon Musk buying votes or the McDonald's stunt are the behaviors of a campaign that is confident in their ability to drive turnout or confident that ratfuckery and legal maneuvering will give them a path to victory?
I do not. They're desperate and they're flailing.
posted by SansPoint at 1:33 PM on October 23 [9 favorites]
Do you think having Elon Musk buying votes or the McDonald's stunt are the behaviors of a campaign that is confident in their ability to drive turnout or confident that ratfuckery and legal maneuvering will give them a path to victory?
I do not. They're desperate and they're flailing.
posted by SansPoint at 1:33 PM on October 23 [9 favorites]
James Carville: Three Reasons I’m Certain Kamala Harris Will Win
I was depressed by this even before I realized reason number three is "it's just a feeling". If James Carville thinks Harris is going to win that's an indicator that she's moved far enough right to lose people on the left and I don't believe it will pick up enough (any) right-wing votes to make up the difference (I could of course be wrong about this but if James Carville is allowed to make predictions based on "just a feeling" then I feel like I should be able to say whatever I want too).
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:48 PM on October 23 [7 favorites]
I was depressed by this even before I realized reason number three is "it's just a feeling". If James Carville thinks Harris is going to win that's an indicator that she's moved far enough right to lose people on the left and I don't believe it will pick up enough (any) right-wing votes to make up the difference (I could of course be wrong about this but if James Carville is allowed to make predictions based on "just a feeling" then I feel like I should be able to say whatever I want too).
posted by an octopus IRL at 1:48 PM on October 23 [7 favorites]
You could be wrong about that--some fraction of the people who voted for Nikki Haley in Republican primaries will probably vote for Harris in the general.
Or, if you prefer a more timely reference, Liz Cheney yesterday: “I would just remind people, if you’re at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody. There will be millions of Republicans who do that on November 5.”
posted by box at 2:26 PM on October 23 [6 favorites]
Or, if you prefer a more timely reference, Liz Cheney yesterday: “I would just remind people, if you’re at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody. There will be millions of Republicans who do that on November 5.”
posted by box at 2:26 PM on October 23 [6 favorites]
James Carville: Three Reasons I’m Certain Kamala Harris Will Win
Ah, shit, I was feeling really confident about Harris's chances but now that Carville's certain about it I'm starting to get worried.
posted by jackbishop at 2:44 PM on October 23 [5 favorites]
Ah, shit, I was feeling really confident about Harris's chances but now that Carville's certain about it I'm starting to get worried.
posted by jackbishop at 2:44 PM on October 23 [5 favorites]
i used to be someone else Well, I can't speak for anyone else but I don't want anyone to be killed. Heck, I don't even want anyone to be hurt and even the more humane types of prison seems excessive in many cases.
I don't even want Trump, for example, to go to prison. I don't want Musk to even get punched, much less be sent to prison or killed.
I want what they probably think is vastly worse: I want to make them non-billionaires by taxing everything above $500 million at 100%.
That's it. I'm not even being punitive and demanding they be reduced to poverty and forced to actually work for a living like everyone else does.
So maybe save your moral scolding for them and leave me alone?
posted by sotonohito at 2:45 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
I don't even want Trump, for example, to go to prison. I don't want Musk to even get punched, much less be sent to prison or killed.
I want what they probably think is vastly worse: I want to make them non-billionaires by taxing everything above $500 million at 100%.
That's it. I'm not even being punitive and demanding they be reduced to poverty and forced to actually work for a living like everyone else does.
So maybe save your moral scolding for them and leave me alone?
posted by sotonohito at 2:45 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
I think Liz Cheney deserves some a lot of respect because there have been times when she's been particularly frank when addressing conservatives about the need to grow up and accept that Democrats will have different priorities and that the fate of the nation and democracy is more important than tax cuts.
There are so many other Republicans who are cowering while hoping to have their cake and eat it to.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:46 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
There are so many other Republicans who are cowering while hoping to have their cake and eat it to.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:46 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
kensington314: Is Kamala Harris reckoning with her party's role in creating the billionaire class whose standard-bearer just tried to literally buy votes by lottery? Because this is the thing I don't understand. I know the Democratic Party is full of individual actors with a variety of things hampering their collective ability to govern (including not having durable majorities). But I also just feel like the party's various mascots live in a different epistemic reality where the worship of wealthy people, the dismantling of organized labor, and the hollowing out of entire regions has NOT compromised their ability to gain and hold power, or OUR ability to keep a fragile democracy in place.
It was "we the people" before, it's not going to work without being "we the people" again*. Revolutions start with disaffected rich people breaking norms -- the checks and balances. barely checked and didn't balance the 45th president. The range of ideas that are plausible on the R side of USA politics needs some counterweight in the D side willing to think collective and communal thoughts with some vision for "we the people" to check and balance the power of capital in the hands of the ultra-rich. Politics may have always been a crisis of one kind of another, but this crisis is great and it needs to be resolved before it grows greater.
*: I'm not a US person, nor am I in the USA.
posted by k3ninho at 3:15 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
It was "we the people" before, it's not going to work without being "we the people" again*. Revolutions start with disaffected rich people breaking norms -- the checks and balances. barely checked and didn't balance the 45th president. The range of ideas that are plausible on the R side of USA politics needs some counterweight in the D side willing to think collective and communal thoughts with some vision for "we the people" to check and balance the power of capital in the hands of the ultra-rich. Politics may have always been a crisis of one kind of another, but this crisis is great and it needs to be resolved before it grows greater.
*: I'm not a US person, nor am I in the USA.
posted by k3ninho at 3:15 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
Looking for a solution, Land and New Right thinker Curtis Yarvin—a blogger and software developer, who developed many of the ideas of the New Right writing under the pseudonym "Mencius Moldbug"—envisioned a new form of government: a corporation. (Yarvin at times uses “monarchy” and “corporation” interchangeably—describing a corporation itself as “absolute monarchy,” and has recently leaned more toward monarchism than corporatism, if there’s a difference.)
As a Usenet talk.bizarre veteran of old, I continue to shudder quietly.
Yarvin was a prominent figure in t.b in the early nineties, before the crack in his psyche became visible from orbit. He was the keeper and overlord of its most commonly shared scorefile, a tool for threaded newsreaders to separate the interesting posters and subjects from mind-boggling cavalcades of excrement (and soon, from AOL, which was worse.)
So it's amusing that the alt-right drive for corporate monarchism that has so inspired the likes of Musk, Thiel and Vance -- Musk in particular -- has a distant but slow-leaking link to the newsgroup whose FAQ of old namedrops its fictional "omnipresent corporation that everyone's been programmed to fear and love, which has been "making the world safe for TECHNOLOGY" for an undisclosed amount of time..."
...X Industries.
murmurs There is no Cabal. There is no Cabal. There is no Cabal. quietly to himself
posted by delfin at 4:59 PM on October 23 [6 favorites]
As a Usenet talk.bizarre veteran of old, I continue to shudder quietly.
Yarvin was a prominent figure in t.b in the early nineties, before the crack in his psyche became visible from orbit. He was the keeper and overlord of its most commonly shared scorefile, a tool for threaded newsreaders to separate the interesting posters and subjects from mind-boggling cavalcades of excrement (and soon, from AOL, which was worse.)
So it's amusing that the alt-right drive for corporate monarchism that has so inspired the likes of Musk, Thiel and Vance -- Musk in particular -- has a distant but slow-leaking link to the newsgroup whose FAQ of old namedrops its fictional "omnipresent corporation that everyone's been programmed to fear and love, which has been "making the world safe for TECHNOLOGY" for an undisclosed amount of time..."
...X Industries.
murmurs There is no Cabal. There is no Cabal. There is no Cabal. quietly to himself
posted by delfin at 4:59 PM on October 23 [6 favorites]
> "A trove of legislative and electoral data reveals that when one party secures control, voters get ignored."
Wow, that's beautiful, thanks kliuless. You'd expect two-party system, or even first-past-the-post, mean voters get ignored, but now I'm curious whether secondary tendency like this drive more of this.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:10 PM on October 23
Wow, that's beautiful, thanks kliuless. You'd expect two-party system, or even first-past-the-post, mean voters get ignored, but now I'm curious whether secondary tendency like this drive more of this.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:10 PM on October 23
See how your neighborhood is giving to Harris and Trump (WaPo gift)
posted by box at 5:43 PM on October 23 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:43 PM on October 23 [1 favorite]
We ought neither be maliciously obtunded. The billionaires do not hesitate to murder those who stand in their way. Violence is risky and problematic but so is fighting fire with marshmallows.
posted by Richard Saunders at 5:58 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
posted by Richard Saunders at 5:58 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
if only high-impact radiotherapy were approved for that lot
I’d settle for radioactive levels of taxation.
posted by notyou at 6:06 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
I’d settle for radioactive levels of taxation.
posted by notyou at 6:06 PM on October 23 [3 favorites]
Don’t call it a “wealth tax;” call it an “illth tax:”
posted by notyou at 6:16 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
Wealth, therefore, is "The possession of the valuable by the valiant"; and in considering it as a power existing in a nation, the two elements, the value of the thing, and the valour of its possessor, must be estimated together. Whence it appears that many of the persons commonly considered wealthy, are in reality no more wealthy than the locks of their own strong boxes are, they being inherently and eternally incapable of wealth; and operating for the nation, in an economical point of view, either as pools of dead water, and eddies in a stream (which, so long as the stream flows, are useless, or serve only to drown people, but may become of importance in a state of stagnation should the stream dry); or else, as dams in a river, of which the ultimate service depends not on the dam, but the miller; or else, as mere accidental stays and impediments, acting not as wealth, but (for we ought to have a correspondent term) as "illth" causing various devastation and trouble around them in all directions; or lastly, act not at all, but are merely animated conditions of delay, (no use being possible of anything they have until they are dead,) in which last condition they are nevertheless often useful as delays, and "impedimenta," if a nation is apt to move too fast. (Unto This Last, Essay IV, p. 182, 1860)Those big piles money are Illth, and ought to be eradicated, for the safety of the community.
posted by notyou at 6:16 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
As a free man on non-US land, I hereby formally reject any implied offer of USA, Inc corporate identity.
posted by flabdablet at 8:24 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:24 PM on October 23 [4 favorites]
ontopic: I didn't say first time that I'd heard other chatter say that Thiel and Musk want to recreate Feudalism, but it's here, now. I deplored this piece and urge you to deplore this state of affairs.
Richard Saunders: fighting fire with marshmallows
I'm not fighting for with marshmallows but kumbayah. That gets us collective action -- they're proposing city-states wth killbots, and I'm proposing something not far from Zapp Brannigan's "The killbots had a preset kill limit, so I sent wave after wave of soldiers at them until they reached their limits and shut down."
posted by k3ninho at 11:40 PM on October 23 [2 favorites]
Richard Saunders: fighting fire with marshmallows
I'm not fighting for with marshmallows but kumbayah. That gets us collective action -- they're proposing city-states wth killbots, and I'm proposing something not far from Zapp Brannigan's "The killbots had a preset kill limit, so I sent wave after wave of soldiers at them until they reached their limits and shut down."
posted by k3ninho at 11:40 PM on October 23 [2 favorites]
as much as i would love to see definitive fates befall musk and thiel and the like, i don't think this would address the root of the problem, which is that america is and always has been a country built on the idea that the wealthy not only are more powerful, but deserve to be; that a person's liberty and their influence on the government is directly proportional to their wealth by design
there are so many examples of this from the colonial settler period to present day that they all kind of blur together into a norm so pervasive that even the most powerless, trodden-upon folks in america not only accept it but applaud it as a sign of the country's greatness. there will be no escaping vapid billionaire shitbishops and their ludicrous designs for the american experiment until the core principles of the country are radically changed, and unfortunately i don't see that happening any time soon, so even severe legal consequences for these autocrats won't solve the problem so much as bring the fever down for a little while. and maybe that's the best we can hope for right now
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:23 AM on October 24 [3 favorites]
there are so many examples of this from the colonial settler period to present day that they all kind of blur together into a norm so pervasive that even the most powerless, trodden-upon folks in america not only accept it but applaud it as a sign of the country's greatness. there will be no escaping vapid billionaire shitbishops and their ludicrous designs for the american experiment until the core principles of the country are radically changed, and unfortunately i don't see that happening any time soon, so even severe legal consequences for these autocrats won't solve the problem so much as bring the fever down for a little while. and maybe that's the best we can hope for right now
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:23 AM on October 24 [3 favorites]
Is Kamala Harris reckoning with her party's role in creating the billionaire class whose standard-bearer just tried to literally buy votes by lottery? Because this is the thing I don't understand.
She's not, because she has her own billionaires, number one, and number two, if she wins the last thing she's going to do is worry about all the losers. Because she won, and surely she was supposed to, right? Anyone who disagrees is a hater! It's "fuck you, I got mine" all the way down. That's the American way, baby!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:34 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
She's not, because she has her own billionaires, number one, and number two, if she wins the last thing she's going to do is worry about all the losers. Because she won, and surely she was supposed to, right? Anyone who disagrees is a hater! It's "fuck you, I got mine" all the way down. That's the American way, baby!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:34 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
yeah, I didn't want to engage on "will Kamala have a reckoning with billionaires" because it feels like it would be a depressing discussion. Also, this is a thread on Elon's fascist tendencies, and we should resist the urge to form the circular firing squad while we're talking about that asshat.
Anyway, I agree that Kamala has her own billionaires, who she will work with, but given that blue billonaires are supportive of paying more taxes, fighting climate change, and support reproductive health. Then if we must choose between neo-feudal states of plutocrats then better those trying to make the world better and address inequality, to the ones who want to accelerate inequality and create an authoritarian state that keeps the population repressed while they fantasize about colonizing Mars.
posted by bl1nk at 7:00 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
Anyway, I agree that Kamala has her own billionaires, who she will work with, but given that blue billonaires are supportive of paying more taxes, fighting climate change, and support reproductive health. Then if we must choose between neo-feudal states of plutocrats then better those trying to make the world better and address inequality, to the ones who want to accelerate inequality and create an authoritarian state that keeps the population repressed while they fantasize about colonizing Mars.
posted by bl1nk at 7:00 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
Around electric trucks: Two years after buying my $2,000 electric truck from China, here’s how it looks now
posted by jeffburdges at 8:01 AM on October 24 [3 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 8:01 AM on October 24 [3 favorites]
We ought neither be maliciously obtunded. The billionaires do not hesitate to murder those who stand in their way. Violence is risky and problematic but so is fighting fire with marshmallows.
Do you have a list of people Elon Musk has had killed?
posted by hermanubis at 11:10 AM on October 24
Do you have a list of people Elon Musk has had killed?
posted by hermanubis at 11:10 AM on October 24
Wealthy Americans, including billionaires, overwhelmingly support Kamala Harris for president.
posted by hermanubis at 11:12 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
posted by hermanubis at 11:12 AM on October 24 [4 favorites]
Do you have a list of people Elon Musk has had killed?
In the concrete rather than abstract where no one becomes a billionaire with out hammering the "press the button and you recieve a million dollars but someone you don't know dies" as often and as hard as they can sense there is the spacex employee who died because Musk is too cheap to buy a fucking rope. He didn't pull the trigger but it's a direct line from the anti safety culture he pushes and that man's death.
posted by Mitheral at 12:32 PM on October 24 [2 favorites]
In the concrete rather than abstract where no one becomes a billionaire with out hammering the "press the button and you recieve a million dollars but someone you don't know dies" as often and as hard as they can sense there is the spacex employee who died because Musk is too cheap to buy a fucking rope. He didn't pull the trigger but it's a direct line from the anti safety culture he pushes and that man's death.
posted by Mitheral at 12:32 PM on October 24 [2 favorites]
I don't hate billionaires as a class. I do hate the ones who treat their wealth as some sort of indication that they're better/smarter/whatever than everyone else, but that's a problem with people.
What I really fucking hate is the resurrection of the Gilded Age system that allows for businesses to become so goddamn large that they generate such large wealth for such a small group of people by monopolizing markets, colluding with supposed competitors to act as a cartel, and abusing workers and consumers.
I hate that we have let things get so bad over the past 40-50 years that the only viable options to fix the problem are confiscatory tax policy or outright violence. That one I hate a little less because the billionaires and their sycophants brought it on themselves, but I still find it distasteful. Unfortunately, being an adult sometimes requires that you do or support things you find distasteful because they have proven necessary to meet the moment.
posted by wierdo at 1:29 PM on October 24
What I really fucking hate is the resurrection of the Gilded Age system that allows for businesses to become so goddamn large that they generate such large wealth for such a small group of people by monopolizing markets, colluding with supposed competitors to act as a cartel, and abusing workers and consumers.
I hate that we have let things get so bad over the past 40-50 years that the only viable options to fix the problem are confiscatory tax policy or outright violence. That one I hate a little less because the billionaires and their sycophants brought it on themselves, but I still find it distasteful. Unfortunately, being an adult sometimes requires that you do or support things you find distasteful because they have proven necessary to meet the moment.
posted by wierdo at 1:29 PM on October 24
hermanubis: 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot from the Washington Post last year.
posted by SansPoint at 1:50 PM on October 24 [4 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 1:50 PM on October 24 [4 favorites]
→
That would be nice, except that Tesla's market cap is so huge that if it were to fall, it would take a big chunk of the US economy with it
posted by scruss at 6:57 PM on October 24
EM finds his net worth considerably diminished
That would be nice, except that Tesla's market cap is so huge that if it were to fall, it would take a big chunk of the US economy with it
posted by scruss at 6:57 PM on October 24
Just pointing out what we got when the UK had a 90% top tax rate in the 1970s:
* George wrote the first protest song to appear on a Beatles Album
* Exile on Main St.
* AIR Montserrat
* Bowie's Berlin Trilogy
posted by credulous at 7:55 PM on October 24
* George wrote the first protest song to appear on a Beatles Album
* Exile on Main St.
* AIR Montserrat
* Bowie's Berlin Trilogy
posted by credulous at 7:55 PM on October 24
I do not mean that billionaire-on-humanity violence is perpetrated in the abstract, or that the products they sell us are deadly, though both of those statements are obviously true and, at present, responsible for a great proportion of humanity's suffering.
I mean something narrower and crucial for any strategy involving redistribution of wealth: that the billionaire buys the politicians who arm the police that kill the activists. When they can get away with it, they kill more directly. Given enough leeway, this murder machine grows exponentially.
A wealth tax would be great. We underestimate the violent potential of its opponents at our peril as we consider what tactics may effect it.
posted by Richard Saunders at 9:17 PM on October 24 [4 favorites]
I mean something narrower and crucial for any strategy involving redistribution of wealth: that the billionaire buys the politicians who arm the police that kill the activists. When they can get away with it, they kill more directly. Given enough leeway, this murder machine grows exponentially.
A wealth tax would be great. We underestimate the violent potential of its opponents at our peril as we consider what tactics may effect it.
posted by Richard Saunders at 9:17 PM on October 24 [4 favorites]
Tesla's market cap is so huge that if it were to fall, it would take a big chunk of the US economy with itTesla's market cap fell by 42% in the first few months of this year, and the US economy did just fine.
And two years ago, Tesla's market cap fell more than 70% and still hasn’t fully recovered, while US stocks as a whole are up significantly over the same period.
posted by mbrubeck at 10:42 PM on October 24 [6 favorites]
One thing that gives me hope that Trump is utterly cooked is the absolute desperation of the actions his surrogates are making to drive people to vote for him.
Do you think having Elon Musk buying votes or the McDonald's stunt are the behaviors of a campaign that is confident in their ability to drive turnout or confident that ratfuckery and legal maneuvering will give them a path to victory?
I do not. They're desperate and they're flailing.
If you think the outrageous stunts being used to buy votes are desperate flailing, you should think again. From outside the arena, all those stunts look exactly like winning the farce that has become pretty much any election anywhere these days. For every sane person that sees the stunts as ridiculous, there are two that think they're hilarious and/or fabulous and will vote for the perpetrator in a heartbeat.
posted by dg at 11:22 PM on October 24 [1 favorite]
Do you think having Elon Musk buying votes or the McDonald's stunt are the behaviors of a campaign that is confident in their ability to drive turnout or confident that ratfuckery and legal maneuvering will give them a path to victory?
I do not. They're desperate and they're flailing.
If you think the outrageous stunts being used to buy votes are desperate flailing, you should think again. From outside the arena, all those stunts look exactly like winning the farce that has become pretty much any election anywhere these days. For every sane person that sees the stunts as ridiculous, there are two that think they're hilarious and/or fabulous and will vote for the perpetrator in a heartbeat.
posted by dg at 11:22 PM on October 24 [1 favorite]
wow metafilter has a real problem with class genocidal attitudes against billionaires
I have yet to meet anyone with serious wealth ie >$50M (and I've met a few), who was a honest and b a caring human. I'd have zero problem if they ceased to exist, and that taxation needs to be written that rises exponentially beyond a million or so.
posted by unearthed at 1:03 AM on October 25 [3 favorites]
I have yet to meet anyone with serious wealth ie >$50M (and I've met a few), who was a honest and b a caring human. I'd have zero problem if they ceased to exist, and that taxation needs to be written that rises exponentially beyond a million or so.
posted by unearthed at 1:03 AM on October 25 [3 favorites]
See how your neighborhood is giving to Harris and Trump (WaPo gift)
I was delighted to see my suburb had more frequent donations to Harris; this place was overwhelmingly republican in the past.
Right wing media is pushing early voting so hard right now. That’s a good sign they desperate given their admonishment of early voting during the last election. I never understood why they wanted to make it more difficult for the elderly to vote given they have a lot of support there. Were they only thinking that poor urban folks would be affected?
posted by waving at 9:15 AM on October 25 [2 favorites]
I was delighted to see my suburb had more frequent donations to Harris; this place was overwhelmingly republican in the past.
Right wing media is pushing early voting so hard right now. That’s a good sign they desperate given their admonishment of early voting during the last election. I never understood why they wanted to make it more difficult for the elderly to vote given they have a lot of support there. Were they only thinking that poor urban folks would be affected?
posted by waving at 9:15 AM on October 25 [2 favorites]
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posted by GenjiandProust at 5:33 AM on October 23 [15 favorites]