Inevitably our time in government will come to an end
December 16, 2024 8:59 AM Subscribe
Canadian Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland resigns from cabinet hours before delivering a fiscal update for the Liberal party minority government and sets up a political crisis. Full text of her resignation letter here [Reuters]. More coverage: Reuters, BBC, The Guardian.
Context from the CBC link:
Context from the CBC link:
It's a disastrous development that throws the government's economic agenda into a tailspin and leaves a huge gap on Trudeau's front bench at a time when Liberal Party support has collapsed in the polls.From her resignation letter:
Freeland's jaw-dropping move to leave just before tabling the economic statement — the government's fiscal road map at a time of great uncertainty, as Canada stares down president-elect Donald Trump's tariff threat — is unprecedented.
Our country today faces a grave challenge. The incoming administration in the United States is pursuing a policy of aggressive economic nationalism, including a threat of 25 per cent tariffs.
We need to take that threat extremely seriously. That means keeping our fiscal powder dry today, so we have the reserves we may need for a coming tariff war. That means eschewing costly political gimmicks, which we can ill afford and which make Canadians doubt that we recognize the gravity of the moment.
That means pushing back against 'America First' economic nationalism with a determined effort to fight for capital and investment and the jobs they bring. That means working in good faith and humility with the Premiers of the provinces and territories of our great and diverse country, and building a true Team Canada response.
I know Canadians would recognize and respect such an approach. They know when we are working for them, and they equally know when we are focused on ourselves. Inevitably, our time in government will come to an end. But how we deal with the threat our country currently faces will define us for a generation, and perhaps longer. Canada will win if we are strong, smart, and united.
I can't see how Trudeau can possibly survive this. Freeland takes with her the majority of the Liberal government's remaining gravitas. Sean Fraser resigning likewise sounds like a coffin nail being pounded very firmly.
posted by senor biggles at 9:13 AM on December 16, 2024 [12 favorites]
posted by senor biggles at 9:13 AM on December 16, 2024 [12 favorites]
WHOA
This is big. I did not expect her to do that but how could she not? The Liberal party has turned into a gong show, what with deploying Conservative tactics (severe cuts to immigration, GST/HST break, that $250 cheque Trudeau wants to send out to most Canadians) in order to prevent the Cons coming into power with the next election.
posted by Kitteh at 9:17 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
This is big. I did not expect her to do that but how could she not? The Liberal party has turned into a gong show, what with deploying Conservative tactics (severe cuts to immigration, GST/HST break, that $250 cheque Trudeau wants to send out to most Canadians) in order to prevent the Cons coming into power with the next election.
posted by Kitteh at 9:17 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I have to wonder what's really going on here. This kind of resignation has all the hallmarks of Freeland being forced to report something in her economic statement that she didn't want to (according to dramatic tropes). Even assuming that's the case, I don't know enough about Freeland or the Trudeau policies to know whether the government or her principles are the bad actor here (could be both!).
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:24 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:24 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
It sounds like she was both fighting against the latest "let's just buy votes with nonsensical tax rebates it works for Doug Ford" moves that Trudeau is pushing, as well as deciding to get ahead of being replaced as the rumour mill has the Libs trying to get former Bank of Canada/England head Mark Cerney to join their ranks and his obvious role would be Finance.
Freeland is my MP. She's both seen as the adult in the room in the Liberal caucus and is deeply, deeply unpopular amongst conservatives. I can see her being party leader but never PM. Protesters from both sides, protesting a variety of issues that she doesn't even have a portfolio over (she hasn't been Foreign Minister for years!) gravitate to her office.
posted by thecjm at 9:24 AM on December 16, 2024 [14 favorites]
Freeland is my MP. She's both seen as the adult in the room in the Liberal caucus and is deeply, deeply unpopular amongst conservatives. I can see her being party leader but never PM. Protesters from both sides, protesting a variety of issues that she doesn't even have a portfolio over (she hasn't been Foreign Minister for years!) gravitate to her office.
posted by thecjm at 9:24 AM on December 16, 2024 [14 favorites]
"I can't see how Trudeau can possibly survive this."
Trudeau is becoming Wile E. Coyote just exploding, and falling, and self-anvil-ing (possibly not a word). And yet he stands up with an exploded ACME cigar in his mouth and hair slightly aflame, and announces a 2 cent rebate on Zyn pouches or something.
posted by joelhunt at 9:28 AM on December 16, 2024 [21 favorites]
Trudeau is becoming Wile E. Coyote just exploding, and falling, and self-anvil-ing (possibly not a word). And yet he stands up with an exploded ACME cigar in his mouth and hair slightly aflame, and announces a 2 cent rebate on Zyn pouches or something.
posted by joelhunt at 9:28 AM on December 16, 2024 [21 favorites]
Listen, I am not blanket Trudeau is the Worst, but man, there comes a time to step down, y'know? Right now nothing is going to salvage his reputation. I just don't want to have PP be the PM at the exact time the US has solidified its commitment to fascism.
posted by Kitteh at 9:30 AM on December 16, 2024 [20 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:30 AM on December 16, 2024 [20 favorites]
???
I've generally been a soft Trudeau defender, if only because so much of the anti-Trudeau sentiment feels very manufactured, and his government has navigated a number of crises.
But this is nuts. I hope for the sake of the country he agrees not to lead in the next election.
Who are even the alternatives though? Is there anyone who could step up? Or we hope the party utterly implodes and the NDP rises again? Well now that I think about it...
posted by Alex404 at 9:34 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
I've generally been a soft Trudeau defender, if only because so much of the anti-Trudeau sentiment feels very manufactured, and his government has navigated a number of crises.
But this is nuts. I hope for the sake of the country he agrees not to lead in the next election.
Who are even the alternatives though? Is there anyone who could step up? Or we hope the party utterly implodes and the NDP rises again? Well now that I think about it...
posted by Alex404 at 9:34 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
Alex404, I agree that a lot of it has been manufactured but he certainly hasn't been helping himself. I have said before in previous Cdn Poli FFPs, who is most likely to be the new Liberal party leader? Whomever they are, it will be a long long road to recovery for that party's image.
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on December 16, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:40 AM on December 16, 2024 [6 favorites]
Who are even the alternatives though? Is there anyone who could step up? Or we hope the party utterly implodes and the NDP rises again? Well now that I think about it...
IF the NDP somehow stepped up—and that is a huge IF—that would seem to be one of the better outcomes. But at that point I might as well wish for a unicorn that farts money.
I actually wonder if this move helps to bolster Freeland's credentials as a future Liberal leader. I don't follow politics nearly as closely as I used to for various reasons, but my impression of Chrystia Freeland has always been someone who could very well be next in line for the leadership and that her biggest problem was that she was too close to the Trudeau camp to separate herself from the failings of that administration. Which is still true today despite all this news, but her doing everything she can to put distance between herself and the Trudeau government does start to address that weakness in my mind.
posted by chrominance at 9:44 AM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
IF the NDP somehow stepped up—and that is a huge IF—that would seem to be one of the better outcomes. But at that point I might as well wish for a unicorn that farts money.
I actually wonder if this move helps to bolster Freeland's credentials as a future Liberal leader. I don't follow politics nearly as closely as I used to for various reasons, but my impression of Chrystia Freeland has always been someone who could very well be next in line for the leadership and that her biggest problem was that she was too close to the Trudeau camp to separate herself from the failings of that administration. Which is still true today despite all this news, but her doing everything she can to put distance between herself and the Trudeau government does start to address that weakness in my mind.
posted by chrominance at 9:44 AM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
who is most likely to be the new Liberal party leader
Interim, someone safe and safely not part of the shitstorm to come. Freeland was an obvious choice ironically. Not sure who could do it now. Possibly one of the Senators.
In the medium term Joly and Anand are both sniffing around. Carney might be in the wings, or might now.
Honestly, were I Carney I would not be able to see any upside to getting into government now.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on December 16, 2024
Interim, someone safe and safely not part of the shitstorm to come. Freeland was an obvious choice ironically. Not sure who could do it now. Possibly one of the Senators.
In the medium term Joly and Anand are both sniffing around. Carney might be in the wings, or might now.
Honestly, were I Carney I would not be able to see any upside to getting into government now.
posted by bonehead at 9:48 AM on December 16, 2024
Sean Fraser, also, was one of those possible interim people. He's out today too of course.
posted by bonehead at 9:50 AM on December 16, 2024
posted by bonehead at 9:50 AM on December 16, 2024
I admire her greatly. I wonder if she's enraged not to get another shot at negotiating with Trump and team.
I'm sorry but it would be a mistake to have her as Liberal leader. You can see it in all of the gendered attacks across social media. Like the US, Canada isn't ready for a female prime minister.
posted by kitcat at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry but it would be a mistake to have her as Liberal leader. You can see it in all of the gendered attacks across social media. Like the US, Canada isn't ready for a female prime minister.
posted by kitcat at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
I would be surprised if Freeland ever put herself forward as Liberal leader. I don't think she's got the charisma, and I'm pretty sure she knows that. She's a great executive and uber-competent as a minister, but I think she'd be looking for something more technocratic as a third career. The UN or the IMF seemed perfect for her.
posted by bonehead at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
oh for fuck's sake
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:52 AM on December 16, 2024 [6 favorites]
i did not have "canadian political shitshow" on my bingo card for this holiday season
i guess someone somewhere said "let's find a new, interesting and creative way to deal with the threat of us fascism and a possible trade war" and the monkey's paw curled (leaving the middle finger rigid of course)
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:59 AM on December 16, 2024 [16 favorites]
i guess someone somewhere said "let's find a new, interesting and creative way to deal with the threat of us fascism and a possible trade war" and the monkey's paw curled (leaving the middle finger rigid of course)
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:59 AM on December 16, 2024 [16 favorites]
Freeland's resignation letter is a wonderfully-crafted Fuck You.
I don't see how Trudeau survives. Before, he could dismiss dissent as being anonymous or from backbenchers, but this is his most important minister. The call is coming from inside the house. Freeland was Trudeau's most stalwart and able lieutenant -- if this is how her loyalty is repaid, why would anyone support him?
Plus, if the claim is true that she was asked to move over to make room for Mark Carney -- it's Trudeau asking the most prominent woman in government to move over for a well-connected man, and that is Not A Good Look, and maybe he's not the supporter of women he claims to be.
We still have to hear his side of the story, but... what could he say to overcome this?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:08 AM on December 16, 2024 [18 favorites]
I don't see how Trudeau survives. Before, he could dismiss dissent as being anonymous or from backbenchers, but this is his most important minister. The call is coming from inside the house. Freeland was Trudeau's most stalwart and able lieutenant -- if this is how her loyalty is repaid, why would anyone support him?
Plus, if the claim is true that she was asked to move over to make room for Mark Carney -- it's Trudeau asking the most prominent woman in government to move over for a well-connected man, and that is Not A Good Look, and maybe he's not the supporter of women he claims to be.
We still have to hear his side of the story, but... what could he say to overcome this?
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:08 AM on December 16, 2024 [18 favorites]
Holy Moses, that’s a bomb. BOOM!
I have been a gentle Trudeau defender but this, this is hard to defend and impossible to recover from. There was perhaps (but not really) the slimmest of chances that the Libs could pull out a minority government at the next election. Pfft! Gone.
What the hell is going on in there?
posted by ashbury at 10:10 AM on December 16, 2024
I have been a gentle Trudeau defender but this, this is hard to defend and impossible to recover from. There was perhaps (but not really) the slimmest of chances that the Libs could pull out a minority government at the next election. Pfft! Gone.
What the hell is going on in there?
posted by ashbury at 10:10 AM on December 16, 2024
it's Trudeau asking the most prominent woman in government to move over for a well-connected man, and that is Not A Good Look, and maybe he's not the supporter of women he claims to be
And it's also the third woman in his gov't to have issued this kind of bombshell Fuck You, I have principles and I'm done with this game. It's wild.
posted by kitcat at 10:19 AM on December 16, 2024 [13 favorites]
And it's also the third woman in his gov't to have issued this kind of bombshell Fuck You, I have principles and I'm done with this game. It's wild.
posted by kitcat at 10:19 AM on December 16, 2024 [13 favorites]
Unimaginable until it happened, inevitable in retrospect. Hoping this takes down Trudeau not because I hate the guy (I’m a soft defender like Alex404 above) but because a new party leader is the only chance at this point of holding PP to a minority next year. Gotta hope.
Having a hard time believing Mark Carney is witless enough to grab the carrot now, but stranger things have happened.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:33 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
Having a hard time believing Mark Carney is witless enough to grab the carrot now, but stranger things have happened.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:33 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
The thing about Freeland as party leader is that I have no idea what her stance is on domestic policies like civil rights. And she's my MP! Her focus on first the foreign ministry and now finance shows she can run a government but how would she do with leading a country and standing up to PP's culture war.
posted by thecjm at 10:43 AM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by thecjm at 10:43 AM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Did JT run the Carney thing past Katie Telford? I wonder if/when she’s going to leave the PMO. Is he listening to anybody?
posted by ashbury at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 10:44 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
I'm just saying that I am not prepared for another potentially devastating election.
posted by Kitteh at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:50 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
As a federal public servant, the Values and Ethics guidelines advise me not to comment publicly on political matters. I am not commenting so hard right now. I am not sure I have never so emphatically not commented on anything in my life.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:59 AM on December 16, 2024 [48 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:59 AM on December 16, 2024 [48 favorites]
I tried watching CBC for some comment on this bombshell and was disappointed that the discussion seemed to center on her selfishly doing this because she didn't like an impending demotion.
Freeland is smart, competent, principled, and a great team player. She is also very plugged into Ukraine/Russia and knows what it means to deal with someone like Putin == Oligarch which seems kind of relevant given things south of the border.
I am kind of flabbergasted at the gymnastics people are doing to not take her at her word and instead be confused about what this is about.
posted by mazola at 11:07 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
Freeland is smart, competent, principled, and a great team player. She is also very plugged into Ukraine/Russia and knows what it means to deal with someone like Putin == Oligarch which seems kind of relevant given things south of the border.
I am kind of flabbergasted at the gymnastics people are doing to not take her at her word and instead be confused about what this is about.
posted by mazola at 11:07 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
I suppose an election is inevitable. Singh may not want an election, but he can't very well say that he has confidence in this government when the finance minister quit.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:10 AM on December 16, 2024
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:10 AM on December 16, 2024
In related news, deck chair shuffling has been going on behind the scenes as well: "Following the departure of Mohammad Hussain last month, Jenna Ghassabeh has been promoted to PMO lead press secretary, while Simon Lafortune has made the switch from National Defence Minister Bill Blair’s office."
I will say that I can't recall another historical moment like this one where the Minister of Finance has departed on the day of a budget/economic statement reading. That's certainly one for the textbooks. I guess he Trudeau wanted to totally blow up his government and reputation and legacy, at least he did so in a dramatic and memorable fashion.
posted by sardonyx at 11:12 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I will say that I can't recall another historical moment like this one where the Minister of Finance has departed on the day of a budget/economic statement reading. That's certainly one for the textbooks. I guess he Trudeau wanted to totally blow up his government and reputation and legacy, at least he did so in a dramatic and memorable fashion.
posted by sardonyx at 11:12 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I tried watching CBC for some comment on this bombshell and was disappointed that the discussion seemed to center on her selfishly doing this because she didn't like an impending demotion.I usually have have Power and Politics on in the background while making dinner. I am thinking the the talking heads that make up their panel segments are going to be especially nattering today.
posted by Clever User Name at 11:13 AM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
Freeland was an obvious choice ironically
Not to step in after Trudeau but pre-election, she wasn't. None of the major cabinet members are because whoever takes the job to contest the election would be the new John Turner or Kim Campbell: a sin-eater who will get hammered and become a political non-entity afterwards.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:15 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
Not to step in after Trudeau but pre-election, she wasn't. None of the major cabinet members are because whoever takes the job to contest the election would be the new John Turner or Kim Campbell: a sin-eater who will get hammered and become a political non-entity afterwards.
posted by The Notorious SRD at 11:15 AM on December 16, 2024 [11 favorites]
I think this kind of puts Freeland in a better position to avoid being the next John Turner or Kim Campbell, which she absolutely would have been. If atrudeau digs in his heels, as he seems deternined to do, she can stage a coup and be the next Paul Martin, instead. If she dethroned Trudeau instead of having him pass the torch she can run against him. This might actually be our best hope for keeping PP out of the PMO.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:31 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:31 AM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
In other news, the CIRB has ordered Canada Post workers on strike to end the strike and return to work tomorrow:
“While the terms of the existing collective agreements will be extended until May 22, 2025, we also put forward an offer to implement a wage increase of five per cent for employees, which was proposed in the company’s last global offer,” Canada Post said.posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:33 AM on December 16, 2024
The wage hike will be retroactive to the day after each collective agreement expired, which was Dec. 31, 2023, for rural and suburban mail carriers (RSMC) unit and Jan. 31, 2024 for the urban unit. There was no immediate comment from CUPW to the CIRB order.
I've rage quit before.
This has been building for awhile. Probably with the appointment of Carney as a special advisor.
Justin should have quit long ago, and the obvious replacement was her.
Now it looks like internal warfare in the Liberal party is the future.
A leadership convention would be a helluva thing.
posted by yyz at 11:36 AM on December 16, 2024
This has been building for awhile. Probably with the appointment of Carney as a special advisor.
Justin should have quit long ago, and the obvious replacement was her.
Now it looks like internal warfare in the Liberal party is the future.
A leadership convention would be a helluva thing.
posted by yyz at 11:36 AM on December 16, 2024
I’ve never been a huge fan of Trudeau, ever since he was leader of the opposition. But like others have said, much of the anti-Trudeau ire is misplaced and just manufactured rage farming, and he’s been the better choice out of the choices we have. I do like Singh well enough, but I don’t think the NDP will ever break out of their third party status.
But I do wish that he had stepped down (or announced such) earlier in this term. With PP waiting in the wings, and incumbents generally doing poorly after repeat elections, he should have seen already that the writing is on the wall. But I think he’s just going to dig his heels in.
Right now I’m afraid PP is going to be PM and is going to complete Harper’s vision of turning us into something more like the United States. And, no offence to the US folks on the board, I don’t want that.
posted by eekernohan at 11:50 AM on December 16, 2024 [12 favorites]
But I do wish that he had stepped down (or announced such) earlier in this term. With PP waiting in the wings, and incumbents generally doing poorly after repeat elections, he should have seen already that the writing is on the wall. But I think he’s just going to dig his heels in.
Right now I’m afraid PP is going to be PM and is going to complete Harper’s vision of turning us into something more like the United States. And, no offence to the US folks on the board, I don’t want that.
posted by eekernohan at 11:50 AM on December 16, 2024 [12 favorites]
I mean the beauty of a parliamentary system is that he can dig his heels in and still be kicked out. Though whether that will happen (maybe) and whether it will be too little too late (probably) is unknown.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:00 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Scuttlebutt is that prorogation or even an election call are being considered. But Ottawa loves gossip as much as middle-schoolers.
posted by bonehead at 12:07 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 12:07 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
Why is Singh calling on Trudeau to resign? I would think Trudeau in charge of the Liberals would be the best hope for the NDP. Unless theyre realists and care more about keeping PP about winning themselves.
Anyone else remeber when a debate moderator asked Jack Layton which of the other two candidates he wanted to see as PM and poor Jack Layton was like "WTF???"
Anyway unless we want PP as PM, Trudeau absolutely needs to be out before an election. Not because I dont like him -- I'm pretty neutral on everything except his lack of self-awareness -- just because he can't win.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:16 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Anyone else remeber when a debate moderator asked Jack Layton which of the other two candidates he wanted to see as PM and poor Jack Layton was like "WTF???"
Anyway unless we want PP as PM, Trudeau absolutely needs to be out before an election. Not because I dont like him -- I'm pretty neutral on everything except his lack of self-awareness -- just because he can't win.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 12:16 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
"That means eschewing costly political gimmicks ..."
"[Canadians] know when we are working for them, and they equally know when we are focused on ourselves."
Wow. Multiple stab wounds.
posted by Kabanos at 12:18 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
"[Canadians] know when we are working for them, and they equally know when we are focused on ourselves."
Wow. Multiple stab wounds.
posted by Kabanos at 12:18 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
I wonder if Freeland considers the recent $1 Billion pledge for border security as one of the 'costly political gimmicks' (because it probably is).
Andrew Coyne had an excellent column in the Globe and Mail recently (reprinted here; no paywall) saying among other things:
Andrew Coyne had an excellent column in the Globe and Mail recently (reprinted here; no paywall) saying among other things:
The whole idea is so insane that everyone assumes it must be a negotiating tactic – that when Donald Trump ties the tariffs to the two countries’ alleged failure to stem the flow of fentanyl and illegal aliens into the United States, he means he would lift the tariffs if they somehow achieved this. Or if they did something else, or something in addition. But no one knows. He also likes tariffs for their own sake. For that matter, he likes issuing threats for their own sake.posted by mazola at 12:27 PM on December 16, 2024 [9 favorites]
And he’s not even president yet.
…
I think we have to look at the current crisis, then, not through the lens of trade or diplomacy or even extortion, but through the psychology of a deeply disturbed man. Grovelling before him, for example, as some of our Premiers seem inclined to do, is unlikely to assuage him: It’s the sort of thing he lives for.
Caving to his demands, likewise, is futile: not because he will rationally conclude that our willingness to accept a first demand suggests we might concede to others, but because the dopamine high he experiences from dominating others will take control of him, demanding to be supplied with further hits.
Freeland's story should serve as a cautionary to any woman with brains and conviction considering a role in federal politics in this country
On paper I thought she was lightning in a bottle. I think a combination of the times, not to mention her own missteps, have contributed to making her unable to continue serving at the federal level and certainly not at the executive (cabinet) level. The resignation letter she has served to the public is probably one of her smartest acts of late, and magnitudes smarter than the incomprehensible nonsense she rendered on US election night.
I'm sorry we won't see a Prime Minister Freeland, it's not that I think she'd have been a particularly good PM but that never stopped this stupid fucking country from electing Justin Trudeau then deciding PP was a good change of pace
posted by ginger.beef at 12:29 PM on December 16, 2024 [7 favorites]
On paper I thought she was lightning in a bottle. I think a combination of the times, not to mention her own missteps, have contributed to making her unable to continue serving at the federal level and certainly not at the executive (cabinet) level. The resignation letter she has served to the public is probably one of her smartest acts of late, and magnitudes smarter than the incomprehensible nonsense she rendered on US election night.
I'm sorry we won't see a Prime Minister Freeland, it's not that I think she'd have been a particularly good PM but that never stopped this stupid fucking country from electing Justin Trudeau then deciding PP was a good change of pace
posted by ginger.beef at 12:29 PM on December 16, 2024 [7 favorites]
If Trump loves people who'll grovel, I guarantee PP's cabinet will happily oblige. Old Milhouse Without Glasses has a spine of Jell-O. He is no strongman like Trump and he will soon fuck around and find out. The tragedy is that we will have to find out alongside him.
posted by Kitteh at 12:44 PM on December 16, 2024 [14 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:44 PM on December 16, 2024 [14 favorites]
As a federal public servant, the Values and Ethics guidelines advise me not to comment publicly on political matters. I am not commenting so hard right now. I am not sure I have never so emphatically not commented on anything in my life.
“Holding my tongue with both hands and getting finger cramps” I hear you friend
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:05 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
“Holding my tongue with both hands and getting finger cramps” I hear you friend
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:05 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
Right now I’m afraid PP is going to be PM and is going to complete Harper’s vision of turning us into something more like the United States. And, no offence to the US folks on the board, I don’t want that.
Speaking as an American-Canadian, no offence taken, and I completely agree.
posted by eviemath at 1:20 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
Speaking as an American-Canadian, no offence taken, and I completely agree.
posted by eviemath at 1:20 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
I really don't know who would be the top contenders to replace Trudeau, but I wish we could have Marc Miller? From the little I know about him he's scrappy and straight-talking he's maybe the 'vibe' that's needed to go up against Poilievre. I wonder what other think about this.
posted by kitcat at 1:21 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by kitcat at 1:21 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
As an American who has always lived near the US/Canada border but doesn't follow Canadian news as closely as I probably ought.. is the slide in the CAD relative to USD a significant factor here, a secondary symptom of other things that are going on, or mostly unrelated?
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:31 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:31 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
The slide in CAD currency is likely due to the impending trade war / tariffs, because if Canada has less exports to the US, Canada is pretty fucked, because our economy is propped up by sending truly vast quantities of things south in exchange for vast quantities of money coming north.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
complete Harper’s vision of turning us into something more like the United States
More like join it.
"Donald Trump’s remark about Canada becoming the 51st U.S. state with Justin Trudeau as its Governor was laughed off by those attending the recent dinner at Mar-a-Lago.
“In a three-hour social evening at the president’s residence in Florida on a long weekend of American Thanksgiving, the conversation was going to be light-hearted. The president was telling jokes, the president was teasing us, it was, of course, in no way a serious comment,” said Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc.
Was it really just a joke? If so, it’s wearing pretty thin, as Mr. Trump keeps repeating it. He also posted an AI-generated picture of himself standing by a Canadian flag overlooking a mountain range that was supposedly the Rockies. In fact, it was the Swiss Alps. But never mind. Truth has never been one of Trump’s strengths.
Last week, he encouraged the audience at a Fox News event to chant “Fifty-one, fifty-one, fifty-one”. What’s up with that?
Mr. Trump is not known as a great wit. So, when he fixates on an issue, as he is here, laughing it off is a bad idea.
Consider the situation. Mr. Trump is about to start his second term. That means he is a lame duck President. Unless he tries to attempt a coup d’état in 2029, his time in office will end under the rules of the U.S. constitution, which does not permit a third term.
But what if Mr. Trump has something even more ambitious in the back of his mind? This is a man with a huge ego. He wants to be remembered as the greatest president in U.S. history. His actions over the next four years will be calculated to achieve that goal. Exerting complete U.S. dominance over the economies of his country’s two closest neighbors would be a good start for him.
Perhaps he believes that by bludgeoning Canada’s economy into a recession/depression, he can force us to come begging, hat in hand, for admission to his land of milk and honey. He could then be remembered as the president who doubled the geographic size of the U.S. and brought it a treasure trove of petroleum, minerals, agricultural land, hydroelectricity and skilled workers. That would certainly impress historians.
So far, Canada’s response has been disappointing and disunited. Everyone now agrees the threat is real and imminent. But no one agrees on what to do about it. Team Canada is dysfunctional and divided. Ontario Premier Doug Ford talks of cutting off power supplies to northern states. Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says no way. Ottawa hasn’t said anything definitive yet. The Liberals are reviewing the situation, while the clock ticks.
Where is this going? Consider this possible scenario. Trump acts as promised and imposes 25-per-cent tariffs on all imports from Canada and Mexico on Jan. 20. As Mr. Trudeau suggested in Halifax last week, Canada responds with its own tariffs on selected U.S. imports including steel and aluminum. Mr. Trump, instead of backing down, decides to escalate, telling the American people that Canada has been ripping them off for decades and he intends to end it once and for all by eliminating the trade deficit between the two countries, which he seems to think of as a “subsidy”. Note how that word has crept into his rhetoric after he first claimed this was all about securing the border.
The inevitable result is that Canada would lapse into a recession as the tariffs force many exporting companies to reduce production or even close down. Inflation could reignite as a sinking loonie combines with our own tariffs on U.S. imports to push up prices on everything from oranges to trucks.
Perhaps the escape hatch from this vicious cycle will be the renegotiation of the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA, NAFTA’s replacement accord), which Trump negotiated, and praised, during his first term. If all three participating countries are feeling the pain, there may be a willingness on the part of the U.S. administration to reach a deal that would allow Trump to proclaim it to be “a beautiful win for America”. Of course, such an agreement would probably be heavily one-sided in favour of the U.S., but it would be better than allowing the trade war to drag on.
And much better than begging Mr. Trump to deign to allow us to join his disunited country."
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
More like join it.
"Donald Trump’s remark about Canada becoming the 51st U.S. state with Justin Trudeau as its Governor was laughed off by those attending the recent dinner at Mar-a-Lago.
“In a three-hour social evening at the president’s residence in Florida on a long weekend of American Thanksgiving, the conversation was going to be light-hearted. The president was telling jokes, the president was teasing us, it was, of course, in no way a serious comment,” said Public Safety Minister Dominic LeBlanc.
Was it really just a joke? If so, it’s wearing pretty thin, as Mr. Trump keeps repeating it. He also posted an AI-generated picture of himself standing by a Canadian flag overlooking a mountain range that was supposedly the Rockies. In fact, it was the Swiss Alps. But never mind. Truth has never been one of Trump’s strengths.
Last week, he encouraged the audience at a Fox News event to chant “Fifty-one, fifty-one, fifty-one”. What’s up with that?
Mr. Trump is not known as a great wit. So, when he fixates on an issue, as he is here, laughing it off is a bad idea.
Consider the situation. Mr. Trump is about to start his second term. That means he is a lame duck President. Unless he tries to attempt a coup d’état in 2029, his time in office will end under the rules of the U.S. constitution, which does not permit a third term.
But what if Mr. Trump has something even more ambitious in the back of his mind? This is a man with a huge ego. He wants to be remembered as the greatest president in U.S. history. His actions over the next four years will be calculated to achieve that goal. Exerting complete U.S. dominance over the economies of his country’s two closest neighbors would be a good start for him.
Perhaps he believes that by bludgeoning Canada’s economy into a recession/depression, he can force us to come begging, hat in hand, for admission to his land of milk and honey. He could then be remembered as the president who doubled the geographic size of the U.S. and brought it a treasure trove of petroleum, minerals, agricultural land, hydroelectricity and skilled workers. That would certainly impress historians.
So far, Canada’s response has been disappointing and disunited. Everyone now agrees the threat is real and imminent. But no one agrees on what to do about it. Team Canada is dysfunctional and divided. Ontario Premier Doug Ford talks of cutting off power supplies to northern states. Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says no way. Ottawa hasn’t said anything definitive yet. The Liberals are reviewing the situation, while the clock ticks.
Where is this going? Consider this possible scenario. Trump acts as promised and imposes 25-per-cent tariffs on all imports from Canada and Mexico on Jan. 20. As Mr. Trudeau suggested in Halifax last week, Canada responds with its own tariffs on selected U.S. imports including steel and aluminum. Mr. Trump, instead of backing down, decides to escalate, telling the American people that Canada has been ripping them off for decades and he intends to end it once and for all by eliminating the trade deficit between the two countries, which he seems to think of as a “subsidy”. Note how that word has crept into his rhetoric after he first claimed this was all about securing the border.
The inevitable result is that Canada would lapse into a recession as the tariffs force many exporting companies to reduce production or even close down. Inflation could reignite as a sinking loonie combines with our own tariffs on U.S. imports to push up prices on everything from oranges to trucks.
Perhaps the escape hatch from this vicious cycle will be the renegotiation of the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA, NAFTA’s replacement accord), which Trump negotiated, and praised, during his first term. If all three participating countries are feeling the pain, there may be a willingness on the part of the U.S. administration to reach a deal that would allow Trump to proclaim it to be “a beautiful win for America”. Of course, such an agreement would probably be heavily one-sided in favour of the U.S., but it would be better than allowing the trade war to drag on.
And much better than begging Mr. Trump to deign to allow us to join his disunited country."
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
With all of the other problems, nobody really cares about the slide in the Canadian dollar versus the US dollar at this point--with the exception of snowbirds who are getting ready to head south for the winter. Normally, it would be a bigger deal, but there are just too many bigger threats happening all at once.
posted by sardonyx at 1:49 PM on December 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 1:49 PM on December 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
Freeland's story should serve as a cautionary to any woman with brains and conviction considering a role in federal politics in this country
Huh? She has spent most of the past decade filling all the top Cabinet roles, often several simultaneously. She will be go down in history as a substantial and capable minister.
If your point is that she should therefore have become PM, that's not how politics works.
posted by senor biggles at 1:53 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
Huh? She has spent most of the past decade filling all the top Cabinet roles, often several simultaneously. She will be go down in history as a substantial and capable minister.
If your point is that she should therefore have become PM, that's not how politics works.
posted by senor biggles at 1:53 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
You know what would be beautiful? If the prime minister and all the premiers got together, and issued a joint statement: "Fuck you, Donald Trump, and your dumb fucking bullshit."
Then they can all go back to their petty conflicts. But just show for a moment that Canada has a spine, and bullies suck.
posted by Alex404 at 2:01 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
Then they can all go back to their petty conflicts. But just show for a moment that Canada has a spine, and bullies suck.
posted by Alex404 at 2:01 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
Huh? She has spent most of the past decade filling all the top Cabinet roles, often several simultaneously. She will be go down in history as a substantial and capable minister.
I don't think she'll go down as a substantial and capable minister. When I compare this period to the period Anne McLellan served, it seems to me politics have grown more rancorous and so-called Western alienation looms as large if not larger than ever. I don't fault Freeland for much if any of this.
When has Canada truly recognized the service of a prominent female politician? I am sure there are examples, but I fear Freeland will go the way of Kim Campbell: her name will be associated with a type of failure that didn't ultimately have much to do with anything she did or did not do.
posted by ginger.beef at 2:09 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I don't think she'll go down as a substantial and capable minister. When I compare this period to the period Anne McLellan served, it seems to me politics have grown more rancorous and so-called Western alienation looms as large if not larger than ever. I don't fault Freeland for much if any of this.
When has Canada truly recognized the service of a prominent female politician? I am sure there are examples, but I fear Freeland will go the way of Kim Campbell: her name will be associated with a type of failure that didn't ultimately have much to do with anything she did or did not do.
posted by ginger.beef at 2:09 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I think that the Liberal party is going to be a shadow of what it once was for more than a few years while it deals with the fallout from the Trudeau leadership. I don’t know enough about politics to make even remotely accurate predictions but I feel that the Liberal party that eventually rises from the ashes isn’t going to have (m)any of the big names that we’ve been seeing over the last 8 years.
With regard to Freeland, I think that she’s going to be just fine and her legacy of being a powerful woman in parliament is going to remain intact. Perhaps because she’s resigning.
posted by ashbury at 3:00 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
With regard to Freeland, I think that she’s going to be just fine and her legacy of being a powerful woman in parliament is going to remain intact. Perhaps because she’s resigning.
posted by ashbury at 3:00 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
The most demoralizing part of the resignation letter is the sense of exhaustion. It looks as though Freeland has been holding back a river of political shit, and has decided that she can't do it anymore without better support. The dam is breached just before we're gonna get a tsunami of political shit from another direction.
Trudeau was fine in the sense that he managed the federal house well enough. He did not manage to halt the impoverishment of ordinary Canadians and he has done nothing concrete for the environment. Yet he did manage to decriminalize weed, which helped reduce a strong cause of police harassment of minorities. And, invisibly to most Canadians, he pushed reconciliation with the Indigenous peoples of Canada. But these times require leaders not managers.
posted by SnowRottie at 3:41 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
Trudeau was fine in the sense that he managed the federal house well enough. He did not manage to halt the impoverishment of ordinary Canadians and he has done nothing concrete for the environment. Yet he did manage to decriminalize weed, which helped reduce a strong cause of police harassment of minorities. And, invisibly to most Canadians, he pushed reconciliation with the Indigenous peoples of Canada. But these times require leaders not managers.
posted by SnowRottie at 3:41 PM on December 16, 2024 [8 favorites]
So LeBlanc despite having been in Government a very long time and having Canadian noble lineage, hasn't never held a cabinet post nearly this big. Intergovernmental affairs is arguably the most important portfolio he's held, but that one is more about managing egos and relationships than keeping the ship on-course. But he's is Trudeau's old babysitter, so I think we can guess that what Trudeau wants right now is loyalty above all, so we probably shouldn't be expecting a resignation.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:56 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:56 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I'm imagining Freeland and JWR exchanging texts right now, and none of them are printable.
I missed all this in the news today because CBC is so zealous about blocking commercial/social media use of their news that their RSS Feeds time out if you use a known news reader or client library. Repeated back and forth with CBC's technical team indicates that because so few people use their RSS feeds, they won't fix it.
So few people use their RSS feeds because CBC broke them
posted by scruss at 5:26 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
I missed all this in the news today because CBC is so zealous about blocking commercial/social media use of their news that their RSS Feeds time out if you use a known news reader or client library. Repeated back and forth with CBC's technical team indicates that because so few people use their RSS feeds, they won't fix it.
So few people use their RSS feeds because CBC broke them
posted by scruss at 5:26 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
All I can say is that in 2018, I watched an hour long video feed on CBC Newsworld of Chrystia Freeland discuss the mechanics of tariff balance effects with a panel of economists. Fascinating stuff. Probably the smartest politician I've ever seen speaking on television.
Actually, I think contending for party leadership is/was too dumb of a job for her.
As mentioned in comments here, free giveaway is Justin borrowing from the Doug Ford playbook. But hey, desperate times.
I just wish the NDP could get it's shit together. That alone could make the future more bearable.
(I believe Chrystia Freeland's name is spelled incorrectly in the title of this post)
posted by ovvl at 5:34 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
Actually, I think contending for party leadership is/was too dumb of a job for her.
As mentioned in comments here, free giveaway is Justin borrowing from the Doug Ford playbook. But hey, desperate times.
I just wish the NDP could get it's shit together. That alone could make the future more bearable.
(I believe Chrystia Freeland's name is spelled incorrectly in the title of this post)
posted by ovvl at 5:34 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
(I believe Chrystia Freeland's name is spelled incorrectly in the title of this post)
Of course it is (oops!). Mods? Please fix
posted by mazola at 5:40 PM on December 16, 2024
Of course it is (oops!). Mods? Please fix
posted by mazola at 5:40 PM on December 16, 2024
I'm imagining Freeland and JWR exchanging texts right now, and none of them are printable.
I'd like to buy a vowel...?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:43 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
I'd like to buy a vowel...?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:43 PM on December 16, 2024 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Chrystia Freeland's name corrected in the title as requested.
posted by loup (staff) at 5:44 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 5:44 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
→
Jody Wilson-Raybould
posted by scruss at 5:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
I'd like to buy a vowel...?
Jody Wilson-Raybould
posted by scruss at 5:48 PM on December 16, 2024 [2 favorites]
If Chrystia was leading the Liberals in the next election, there'd be no question I'd vote for her. And I'd do it loudly :).
Trudeau's hanging on to power reminds me of another politician recently who did that and ended up essentially doing an own-goal on their party.
posted by storybored at 6:59 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
Trudeau's hanging on to power reminds me of another politician recently who did that and ended up essentially doing an own-goal on their party.
posted by storybored at 6:59 PM on December 16, 2024 [3 favorites]
If Chrystia was leading the Liberals in the next election, there'd be no question I'd vote for her.
So would I, but to be fair, I'd vote for them if Trudeau were leading, if the LeBlanc were leading, if Carney were leading, if the Chretien decided to give it another go, if the Ikea Monkey wanted to give politics a shot. Look, there aren't a lot of options, are there?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:20 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
So would I, but to be fair, I'd vote for them if Trudeau were leading, if the LeBlanc were leading, if Carney were leading, if the Chretien decided to give it another go, if the Ikea Monkey wanted to give politics a shot. Look, there aren't a lot of options, are there?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:20 PM on December 16, 2024 [5 favorites]
I'm American but keep up with Canadian politics through Canadaland and Front Burner. I can't figure out if Trudeau is just the world's most out of touch megalomaniac convinced "It's the Children who are wrong" or someone trying to burn the place to the ground for daring not to adore his every thought.
posted by finalbroadcast at 10:03 PM on December 16, 2024
posted by finalbroadcast at 10:03 PM on December 16, 2024
Huh? She has spent most of the past decade filling all the top Cabinet roles, often several simultaneously. She will be go down in history as a substantial and capable minister.
The problem is that Freeland was good to very good at every role she was ever given until she took on Finance Minister, where she was honestly kind of subpar. This wasn't sabotage, because Finance is the traditional role you give to the next-in-line/second-most-powerful person in government, but Freeland's strength is negotiation and diplomatic relations, which is why she was so good at everything else. Finance is the biggest job in the federal government that isn't about negotiation and diplomatic relations, and Freeland kind of floundered at that. (It doesn't help that she hates political gimmickry and the Canadian citizenry only really responds to gimmickry these days.)
Ironically, she would have made a much better PM than Finance Minister, because the PM job these days is about half international relations and half dealing with the premiers. It's all negotiation and relations now, whereas even twenty years ago beancounting was still a big part of it, so realistically Foreign Affairs should probably be the new "second in command" cabinet position, but traditions like this change very slowly.
posted by mightygodking at 10:52 PM on December 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
The problem is that Freeland was good to very good at every role she was ever given until she took on Finance Minister, where she was honestly kind of subpar. This wasn't sabotage, because Finance is the traditional role you give to the next-in-line/second-most-powerful person in government, but Freeland's strength is negotiation and diplomatic relations, which is why she was so good at everything else. Finance is the biggest job in the federal government that isn't about negotiation and diplomatic relations, and Freeland kind of floundered at that. (It doesn't help that she hates political gimmickry and the Canadian citizenry only really responds to gimmickry these days.)
Ironically, she would have made a much better PM than Finance Minister, because the PM job these days is about half international relations and half dealing with the premiers. It's all negotiation and relations now, whereas even twenty years ago beancounting was still a big part of it, so realistically Foreign Affairs should probably be the new "second in command" cabinet position, but traditions like this change very slowly.
posted by mightygodking at 10:52 PM on December 16, 2024 [4 favorites]
Freeland knows her history and if you look at Chrétien’s 1986 “resignation” this seems a more principled analogue.* My guess is she'll keep her seat in the devastation to come and emerge in a strong position…after. After Poilievre and Trump do us in for a while. I’m just not sure how our economy is going to make it. $60 billion deficit.
I was buying my son a Witcher jigsaw puzzle for Xmas on Saturday and the counter staff had a long discussion about whether the jigsaw part qualified it for the HST holiday or the Witcher part made it too adult. They finally decided that since it was labelled “puzzle” they might as well give me the discount. So then they had to edit their POS to produce the correct price and receipt. It was all very cheerily done but I feel so hard for the small independent everything, in this case game store, trying to sort this pricing out. I would have been embarrassed to deliver the finance update/mini budget too.
(For Americans, Trudeau, under very short notice, gave Canadians an incoherent federal sakes tax holiday — in provinces that are harmonized like mine, a total sales tax holiday — on some items as “anti-inflationary “ (read: vote buying attempt) that includes gems like LEGO for kids is tax-exempt but LEGO for adults is not, print books and audio books are exempt but e-books are not, etc. Businesses of all sizes had a few weeks to reprogram everything, right in the middle of the busiest retail season.)
I had hoped for the Trudeau government and am bitterly disappointed in many ways but…it doesn’t surprise me that Justin is as stubborn as fuck.* I mean go back and watch Pierre Elliot during the FLQ crisis, or repatriating the Constitution. You could argue that conservative populism in Canada was birthed and given its Western core due to the way PET handled the Western provinces especially under the National Energy Program. That handed Mulroney his 1985 majority and while I think Covid basically did most governments in (and I will praise JT for CERB and the wage subsidies; that was huge), I also think JT is foolishly reinforcing the progressive right’s smear campaign.
More to the point he had a super smart Cabinet at one point and just wasted it, and Freeland’s quitting shows how bad that back room is. Time to read some Greek plays on hubris while the Cons burn things to the ground. It’s maddening.
* he campaigned the whole time; he spent a day with my high school debate club and man.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:10 AM on December 17, 2024 [8 favorites]
I was buying my son a Witcher jigsaw puzzle for Xmas on Saturday and the counter staff had a long discussion about whether the jigsaw part qualified it for the HST holiday or the Witcher part made it too adult. They finally decided that since it was labelled “puzzle” they might as well give me the discount. So then they had to edit their POS to produce the correct price and receipt. It was all very cheerily done but I feel so hard for the small independent everything, in this case game store, trying to sort this pricing out. I would have been embarrassed to deliver the finance update/mini budget too.
(For Americans, Trudeau, under very short notice, gave Canadians an incoherent federal sakes tax holiday — in provinces that are harmonized like mine, a total sales tax holiday — on some items as “anti-inflationary “ (read: vote buying attempt) that includes gems like LEGO for kids is tax-exempt but LEGO for adults is not, print books and audio books are exempt but e-books are not, etc. Businesses of all sizes had a few weeks to reprogram everything, right in the middle of the busiest retail season.)
I had hoped for the Trudeau government and am bitterly disappointed in many ways but…it doesn’t surprise me that Justin is as stubborn as fuck.* I mean go back and watch Pierre Elliot during the FLQ crisis, or repatriating the Constitution. You could argue that conservative populism in Canada was birthed and given its Western core due to the way PET handled the Western provinces especially under the National Energy Program. That handed Mulroney his 1985 majority and while I think Covid basically did most governments in (and I will praise JT for CERB and the wage subsidies; that was huge), I also think JT is foolishly reinforcing the progressive right’s smear campaign.
More to the point he had a super smart Cabinet at one point and just wasted it, and Freeland’s quitting shows how bad that back room is. Time to read some Greek plays on hubris while the Cons burn things to the ground. It’s maddening.
* he campaigned the whole time; he spent a day with my high school debate club and man.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:10 AM on December 17, 2024 [8 favorites]
It wouldn't shock me if Freeland lost her seat in the next election. In fact, I pretty much expect to give the post-Mulroney/Kim Campbell seat-count a run for its money in the "worst political collapse imaginable" category, which is sad and something I never expected to predict.
As an aside, while Freeland had a lot of strengths, her understandable determination to be the calm measured (non-emotional) adult (woman) in the room left her with a speech pattern that was more reminiscent of a kindergarten teacher explaining a new and tough concept to students, and there is zero way that style would have allowed her to win an election against Poilievre, as much as that pains me to say. I mean, we all saw how a similar kind of situation played out in the US recently and the situation in Canada would be worse with the Liberals and the NDP splitting the non-Conservative vote.
I was having the discussion the other day about the Liberals and their failing ability to counter Poilievre's three-word-slogan style of communicating and lack of desire to actually do the job of serving the people (and not just playing politics--i.e. his refusal to get a security clearance). I think what the party really lacks is an effective attack dog--somebody, and ideally not a woman given the MAGA-wannabes on the other side of the political aisle, who can step into the kind of role that Sheila Copps used to play. They need somebody quick-witted and sharp-tongued and tough enough not to back down when Poilievre sticks out his chest and starts thumping it. I think that' about the only way to counter that kind of political opponent, and that's the kind of cabinet member or highly visible backbencher who has been in short supply.
posted by sardonyx at 5:20 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
As an aside, while Freeland had a lot of strengths, her understandable determination to be the calm measured (non-emotional) adult (woman) in the room left her with a speech pattern that was more reminiscent of a kindergarten teacher explaining a new and tough concept to students, and there is zero way that style would have allowed her to win an election against Poilievre, as much as that pains me to say. I mean, we all saw how a similar kind of situation played out in the US recently and the situation in Canada would be worse with the Liberals and the NDP splitting the non-Conservative vote.
I was having the discussion the other day about the Liberals and their failing ability to counter Poilievre's three-word-slogan style of communicating and lack of desire to actually do the job of serving the people (and not just playing politics--i.e. his refusal to get a security clearance). I think what the party really lacks is an effective attack dog--somebody, and ideally not a woman given the MAGA-wannabes on the other side of the political aisle, who can step into the kind of role that Sheila Copps used to play. They need somebody quick-witted and sharp-tongued and tough enough not to back down when Poilievre sticks out his chest and starts thumping it. I think that' about the only way to counter that kind of political opponent, and that's the kind of cabinet member or highly visible backbencher who has been in short supply.
posted by sardonyx at 5:20 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
It wouldn't shock me if Freeland lost her seat in the next election. In fact, I pretty much expect to give the post-Mulroney/Kim Campbell seat-count a run for its money in the "worst political collapse imaginable" category, which is sad and something I never expected to predict.
They won two seats in that election, so giving that a run for its money would basically mean the end of the party. The PCs were given official party status after that election as a courtesy, as I recall, (it required 9 seats, which they didn't have).
I mean, we all saw how a similar kind of situation played out in the US recently and the situation in Canada would be worse with the Liberals and the NDP splitting the non-Conservative vote.
Funny you should say that, I had typed a comment earlier and erased it because TOO CRAZY.. but I was also thinking of that Kim Campbell election and how the PCs got themselves out of that disaster of a funk. They merged with the Canadian Alliance. It seems like merging with the NDP might be the only way out for the LIberals at this point to avoid a CPC government. But I think they're too far apart (though I think the PC and CRAP seemed far apart in the day, too), and more importantly, I think the history of the Liberal Party will be too much for them to want to throw away. Maybe a pre-arranged coalition where they agree to run joint-candidates in each riding could be a thing, but a merger seems inconceivable. I'm sure the Liberals would rather put us through another decade of Harper and then come back than have their name fade into oblivion for the good of the country.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
They won two seats in that election, so giving that a run for its money would basically mean the end of the party. The PCs were given official party status after that election as a courtesy, as I recall, (it required 9 seats, which they didn't have).
I mean, we all saw how a similar kind of situation played out in the US recently and the situation in Canada would be worse with the Liberals and the NDP splitting the non-Conservative vote.
Funny you should say that, I had typed a comment earlier and erased it because TOO CRAZY.. but I was also thinking of that Kim Campbell election and how the PCs got themselves out of that disaster of a funk. They merged with the Canadian Alliance. It seems like merging with the NDP might be the only way out for the LIberals at this point to avoid a CPC government. But I think they're too far apart (though I think the PC and CRAP seemed far apart in the day, too), and more importantly, I think the history of the Liberal Party will be too much for them to want to throw away. Maybe a pre-arranged coalition where they agree to run joint-candidates in each riding could be a thing, but a merger seems inconceivable. I'm sure the Liberals would rather put us through another decade of Harper and then come back than have their name fade into oblivion for the good of the country.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:29 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Yup, I mean two seats. A single-digit number of seats wouldn't surprise me. Neither would a seat count that could be measured in two-digit figures. I mean, I hope it doesn't come to that, but it wouldn't be a complete shock if something like that happened, given that it has happened before.
At this point, I don't think the NDP is willing to consider a coalition, but maybe after the next election they might be.
All I know is that as Canadians, we'd better buckle up because we're in for a wild ride.
posted by sardonyx at 5:37 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
At this point, I don't think the NDP is willing to consider a coalition, but maybe after the next election they might be.
All I know is that as Canadians, we'd better buckle up because we're in for a wild ride.
posted by sardonyx at 5:37 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
I am not interested in a wild ride. I am interested in peace, justice, and good government. I understand that the national motto is "peace, order, and good government," but order is bullshit and is how white supremacists control discourse.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:45 AM on December 17, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:45 AM on December 17, 2024 [6 favorites]
I did not think I would miss Jack Layton (I worked with him at the municipal level and…yeah) but I am, and missing NDP leadership.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:16 AM on December 17, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 6:16 AM on December 17, 2024 [7 favorites]
hey need somebody quick-witted and sharp-tongued and tough enough not to back down when Poilievre sticks out his chest and starts thumping it
Yves François Blanchet is unfortunately not available for the LPC.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:15 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
Yves François Blanchet is unfortunately not available for the LPC.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:15 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
Believe me, I was not endorsing a wild ride, just acknowledging the fact it appears to be our new reality.
posted by sardonyx at 7:48 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 7:48 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
hey need somebody quick-witted and sharp-tongued and tough enough not to back down when Poilievre sticks out his chest and starts thumping it
Like this? And this?
posted by kitcat at 7:52 AM on December 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
Like this? And this?
posted by kitcat at 7:52 AM on December 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
Miller is about the only one who is stepping up to the job. He just needs a higher profile/more support from the caucus.
posted by sardonyx at 8:09 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 8:09 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Miller has the immigration portfolio, forget that he’d get annihilated in an election.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:35 AM on December 17, 2024
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:35 AM on December 17, 2024
Hey, the CBC is reporting that Donald Trump has learned to spell. So there's that, at least.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:26 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:26 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
Is Poilievre's speech as awful as it seems or is it just lost in the awful translation?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:30 AM on December 17, 2024
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:30 AM on December 17, 2024
Poilievre is really good at cheesy one liners and appeals to those who feel that the country is on the wrong track. Given how many are in worsening conditions than a few years a go, that's a lot of people.
Poilievre however also loves the cheap shot and delights in punching down when he can. He does so to virtue signal to those who want to see power abused. Aboriginals, women, and immigrants have all been the target of his one-liners over the years. He's quite possibly the driving force behind Harper Era election scandals. When reading who signed the bills for that one, recall that one of his popular nicknames within his own party is "Pierre Poutine". Never proven of course.
So while he's good at catching soundbites and articulating discontent, he's also a politician who engages in racialized and sexist remarks to galvanize his voter block, and who has not been proven to have been engaged in voter suppression and election fraud.
posted by bonehead at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2024 [4 favorites]
Poilievre however also loves the cheap shot and delights in punching down when he can. He does so to virtue signal to those who want to see power abused. Aboriginals, women, and immigrants have all been the target of his one-liners over the years. He's quite possibly the driving force behind Harper Era election scandals. When reading who signed the bills for that one, recall that one of his popular nicknames within his own party is "Pierre Poutine". Never proven of course.
So while he's good at catching soundbites and articulating discontent, he's also a politician who engages in racialized and sexist remarks to galvanize his voter block, and who has not been proven to have been engaged in voter suppression and election fraud.
posted by bonehead at 9:39 AM on December 17, 2024 [4 favorites]
I’m just not sure how our economy is going to make it. $60 billion deficit.
In fairness, the Liberals targeted a deficit of about $41 billion - not great, but acceptable - and then various settlements and decisions in court cases versus First Nations tribes added another twenty billion to the total, so it's just a one-time cost as opposed to anything resembling an operating cost. I mean, you can argue that the Liberals should have anticipated losing the cases, I guess. But the Liberals were mostly on track for their economic plans until those settlements hit.
posted by mightygodking at 11:16 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
In fairness, the Liberals targeted a deficit of about $41 billion - not great, but acceptable - and then various settlements and decisions in court cases versus First Nations tribes added another twenty billion to the total, so it's just a one-time cost as opposed to anything resembling an operating cost. I mean, you can argue that the Liberals should have anticipated losing the cases, I guess. But the Liberals were mostly on track for their economic plans until those settlements hit.
posted by mightygodking at 11:16 AM on December 17, 2024 [3 favorites]
Yes, and...? That's exactly the kind of politicians who win elections these days, not ones who explained nuanced views or make public shows of being inclusive.
posted by sardonyx at 11:24 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 11:24 AM on December 17, 2024 [1 favorite]
so it's just a one-time cost
Right and keep in mind when the conservatives win a majority the next election they can credit their 20 billion deficit decrease to their wise and common sense approach.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:50 AM on December 17, 2024 [6 favorites]
Right and keep in mind when the conservatives win a majority the next election they can credit their 20 billion deficit decrease to their wise and common sense approach.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:50 AM on December 17, 2024 [6 favorites]
I usually have have Power and Politics on in the background while making dinner. I am thinking the the talking heads that make up their panel segments are going to be especially nattering today.
I'm watching this episode now, where they're talking to some Liberal MPs who want Trudeau gone.
The impression I'm getting is that Freeland listens to them and Trudeau doesn't, and that makes them like Freeland more than Trudeau.
posted by clawsoon at 6:54 PM on December 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
I'm watching this episode now, where they're talking to some Liberal MPs who want Trudeau gone.
The impression I'm getting is that Freeland listens to them and Trudeau doesn't, and that makes them like Freeland more than Trudeau.
posted by clawsoon at 6:54 PM on December 17, 2024 [2 favorites]
The impression I'm getting is that Freeland listens to them and Trudeau doesn't, and that makes them like Freeland more than Trudeau.
This makes me even more sad and angry. Trudeau clearly didn't value Freeland appropriately. Trump has made it clear via misdirection that that he was afraid of negotiating with her again. And I was also struck by the statements to the press yesterday and today: her colleagues have nothing but empathy and admiration for her.
posted by kitcat at 8:16 PM on December 17, 2024 [5 favorites]
This makes me even more sad and angry. Trudeau clearly didn't value Freeland appropriately. Trump has made it clear via misdirection that that he was afraid of negotiating with her again. And I was also struck by the statements to the press yesterday and today: her colleagues have nothing but empathy and admiration for her.
posted by kitcat at 8:16 PM on December 17, 2024 [5 favorites]
I just saw Trudeau on the news, talking of his 'tough' last couple of days. Big broad smile, chipper as can be.
I wasn't expecting tears or gloom, but it was a bit of a disconnect between his happy attitude and the gravity of his situation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:27 AM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
I wasn't expecting tears or gloom, but it was a bit of a disconnect between his happy attitude and the gravity of his situation.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:27 AM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Sunny ways!
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:35 AM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
Sometimes it seems like it's not even hubris so much as a complete lack of self-awareness.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:54 AM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:54 AM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
Yeah it is this behaviour that always reminds me of when he'd pop up in the entertainment news when he was young and before he was a teacher, acting like the rich brat he is who thought his charm could get him through most of his problems. Something I always hope he'd outgrow. But to be fair that charm has mostly gotten him through. Who else could have survived the black face scandal or any of the other big and small scandals his party has endured?
Even when he steps down eventually, through party rebellion or a failed election, he'll be fine. He'll work at some Canadian charity and openly date Quebec supermodels half his age. It's easy to see why the Harperites hate him.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:15 AM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Even when he steps down eventually, through party rebellion or a failed election, he'll be fine. He'll work at some Canadian charity and openly date Quebec supermodels half his age. It's easy to see why the Harperites hate him.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:15 AM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
He'll work at some Canadian charity and openly date Quebec supermodels half his age.
Speaking of which... In darkest hour, ghost of Pierre Trudeau visits son to ask if Kim Cattrall still got it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:39 AM on December 18, 2024 [3 favorites]
Speaking of which... In darkest hour, ghost of Pierre Trudeau visits son to ask if Kim Cattrall still got it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:39 AM on December 18, 2024 [3 favorites]
Apparently Trudeau made the call to Freeland about her stepping down and being replaced by Carney before Carney agreed to it?
wtf
posted by mazola at 10:36 AM on December 18, 2024 [4 favorites]
wtf
posted by mazola at 10:36 AM on December 18, 2024 [4 favorites]
He may have agreed in principle and then backed out when the deal changed from "then you swoop in to rescue us from the reckless giant deficit and I hand the torch to you so you can be the next PM" to "then you come in and publicly take over what everyone then realizes you may well have been advising on all along and as my co-captain you down on the sinking ship with me."
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:30 AM on December 18, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:30 AM on December 18, 2024 [3 favorites]
Did anybody catch CNN's Erin Burnett last night? Our dear old Dougie was on her show. And rather that being the big, tough, strong man and capable business leader dude--you know the kind politician that Trump admires, Doug looked and sounded like a sad, whimpering, kicked puppy. Well, I don't wannnnna cut electricity to US customers, I really, really, really, really want to sell more!
It was a TERRIBLE performance. If there is one thing Ford can do (as we all know) is act tough and throw his weight around (or at least he can when he's up against people less powerful or poorer than he is). That's what he should have done last night. On paper, he seems well cast in the role of tough guy/bad guy/Team Canada enforcer, but apparently he has no acting chops and can't deliver a convincing performance.
And despite, supposedly, really having a "good" relationship with Freeland, he didn't even stand up to Erin and correct her when she framed Freeland's departure as being forced by Trump and his tough negotiating tactics. And of course Dougie couldn't even answer with any kind of strength or backbone when asked about Trump's constant referrals to Canada as a state and Justin as a governor.
posted by sardonyx at 1:17 PM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
It was a TERRIBLE performance. If there is one thing Ford can do (as we all know) is act tough and throw his weight around (or at least he can when he's up against people less powerful or poorer than he is). That's what he should have done last night. On paper, he seems well cast in the role of tough guy/bad guy/Team Canada enforcer, but apparently he has no acting chops and can't deliver a convincing performance.
And despite, supposedly, really having a "good" relationship with Freeland, he didn't even stand up to Erin and correct her when she framed Freeland's departure as being forced by Trump and his tough negotiating tactics. And of course Dougie couldn't even answer with any kind of strength or backbone when asked about Trump's constant referrals to Canada as a state and Justin as a governor.
posted by sardonyx at 1:17 PM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
Dougie couldn't even answer with any kind of strength or backbone when asked about Trump's constant referrals to Canada as a state and Justin as a governor.
I have child who aometimwa says things for a reaction. All Trump's recent talk about Canada screams of this same thing. I wish the media, especially Canadian media would stop reporting it. I don't click the links, though obviously that loss of attention is invisible to His Orangeness. Maybe if fewer people read it the media will focus on it less. If Ford was asked about it, I wish he had said basically that: "Children sometimes say things to try to elicit a reaction and Trump is often child-like in this way. The best response is to ignore the behaviour and as ai do not follow news about Trump's social media ranting and I have nothing to say on the topic."
All those years standing next to his brother, you'd think "just act like you're the adult" would come more naturally.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:51 PM on December 18, 2024 [6 favorites]
I have child who aometimwa says things for a reaction. All Trump's recent talk about Canada screams of this same thing. I wish the media, especially Canadian media would stop reporting it. I don't click the links, though obviously that loss of attention is invisible to His Orangeness. Maybe if fewer people read it the media will focus on it less. If Ford was asked about it, I wish he had said basically that: "Children sometimes say things to try to elicit a reaction and Trump is often child-like in this way. The best response is to ignore the behaviour and as ai do not follow news about Trump's social media ranting and I have nothing to say on the topic."
All those years standing next to his brother, you'd think "just act like you're the adult" would come more naturally.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 1:51 PM on December 18, 2024 [6 favorites]
Trudeau gave a speech to the Liberals' holiday party — but Freeland stole the show: All evening long, party faithful lined up to have their photos taken with Freeland [CBC]
posted by mazola at 2:03 PM on December 18, 2024 [5 favorites]
In the early part of Trudeau's 15-minute speech, he cited the growing rift in the party.My main takeaway from this awkward affair is that I could never be a politician.
"It's hard not to feel happy when we're like this, with Liberals, among family. Because that's what we really are. A big family," he said.
"Like most families, sometimes we have fights around the holidays. But of course, like most families, we find our way through it."
Trudeau paused for applause, which arrived a second and a half later.
Freeland applauded Trudeau throughout his speech. Her husband, seated next to her, did not.
posted by mazola at 2:03 PM on December 18, 2024 [5 favorites]
So apparently Freeland's husband is a New York Times Culture reporter. I don't know if that means he writes book/theatre/food reviews or those weird trend pieces they do.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:50 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:50 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Isn't it a truism that if an employer says, "We're like a family," you're about to enter a dysfunctional workplace?
posted by clawsoon at 6:05 PM on December 18, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 6:05 PM on December 18, 2024 [6 favorites]
Speaking of Dougie, I answered a call during supper asking me if Dougie and my local (more than useless) MPP could count on my support in the upcoming election. Apparently he's making hay while the sun shines on political chaos.
posted by sardonyx at 7:50 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 7:50 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Nah, I got that text a couple of weeks. ago. Strangely, they never replied to my response.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:39 PM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:39 PM on December 18, 2024 [2 favorites]
”Isn't it a truism that if an employer says, "We're like a family," you're about to enter a dysfunctional workplace?”
Yup. My old man the steelworker always said that if the bosses say ‘we’re a family’ or ‘we’re all in this together’, then ‘you can hear the sound of the zipper behind you’.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:10 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
Yup. My old man the steelworker always said that if the bosses say ‘we’re a family’ or ‘we’re all in this together’, then ‘you can hear the sound of the zipper behind you’.
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:10 PM on December 18, 2024 [1 favorite]
I think the plan for the cabinet shuffle is to hand all Ministries over to Dominic LeBlanc so Trudeau can claim to have full cabinet support.
posted by mazola at 4:06 PM on December 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by mazola at 4:06 PM on December 19, 2024 [4 favorites]
Ugh, my man, just resign. This is the ole cliche of rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
posted by Kitteh at 4:40 PM on December 19, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:40 PM on December 19, 2024 [2 favorites]
An update on the situation from the globe.
Seems like a lot is happening behind the scenes, and Trudeau is apparently not unaware of the gravity of what's going on.
posted by Alex404 at 12:47 AM on December 20, 2024
Seems like a lot is happening behind the scenes, and Trudeau is apparently not unaware of the gravity of what's going on.
posted by Alex404 at 12:47 AM on December 20, 2024
A new book about Chrystia Freeland just came out. Here's what we learned [CTV]
That said, I hope this break with Trudeau is sufficient enough that Freeland does go for leadership and is able to eek out enough traditional Liberal support in a general election to maybe limit the Conservatives to a minority gov't in the spring/summer/fall. To me that would be a win (I've also come to accept that minority governments are actually kind of good, keeping whoever is in power in check and away from their worst instincts).
posted by mazola at 8:18 AM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
Based on more than 130 interviews with Freeland's relatives, friends and colleagues between 2021 and 2024, the generously flattering portrayal comes as a growing number of Liberals are looking to her as a potential leadership replacement for Justin Trudeau.The conspiratorial side of me wants to think this entire drama was scripted by all involved to give Freeland a suitable launching point to lead the Liberals on the best foot, minus the anchor of Trudeau. As appealing as the thought of having a well thought-out plan is, I've come to accept that more often than not these types of crises usually are just 'a bunch of stuff that happens'.
That said, I hope this break with Trudeau is sufficient enough that Freeland does go for leadership and is able to eek out enough traditional Liberal support in a general election to maybe limit the Conservatives to a minority gov't in the spring/summer/fall. To me that would be a win (I've also come to accept that minority governments are actually kind of good, keeping whoever is in power in check and away from their worst instincts).
posted by mazola at 8:18 AM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
I hazard a guess that i could be excited about Freeland as head of the party. The liberals are the party of the status quo but if we're going to have "order" we might as well have "good government." Or maybe she'll cross the aisle to orange. Wouldn't that be something.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:57 AM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:57 AM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
So earliest confidence vote would be Jan 27, unless the House Speaker reconvenes after consulting with government (can't see that happening).
PP wants to go directly to Governor General it seems even though that's… not a thing?
Trudeau could also prorogue Parliament to delay confidence vote and allow time for a leadership review. Though that probably would be seen as serving him/party and angering Canadians further before going to the polls? So… definitely a possibility :P
posted by mazola at 1:58 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
PP wants to go directly to Governor General it seems even though that's… not a thing?
Trudeau could also prorogue Parliament to delay confidence vote and allow time for a leadership review. Though that probably would be seen as serving him/party and angering Canadians further before going to the polls? So… definitely a possibility :P
posted by mazola at 1:58 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
Key Ally Abandons Trudeau in Fresh Blow to His Government
posted by lalochezia at 2:24 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by lalochezia at 2:24 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
Said key ally had already dropped the Confidence & Supply agreement, so it was a matter of time before this would happen. If Trudeau were to prorogue parliament just after TFG takes power down south, then it proves what a weak and vain man Justin really is.
posted by scruss at 6:17 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by scruss at 6:17 PM on December 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
CBC is reporting that during a virtual meeting yesterday Saturday 21 Dec., 51 Ontario liberal MPs want Justin to step down.
The Toronto Star is reporting the same
Rob Oliphant MP for Don Valley is openly calling for Justin to resign
Chandra Arya liberal MP for Nepean is openly calling for Freeland to replace Justin
--
When 51 Ontario MPS call for Justin to step down, it's gonna be tough to dismiss.
posted by yyz at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2024
The Toronto Star is reporting the same
Rob Oliphant MP for Don Valley is openly calling for Justin to resign
Chandra Arya liberal MP for Nepean is openly calling for Freeland to replace Justin
--
When 51 Ontario MPS call for Justin to step down, it's gonna be tough to dismiss.
posted by yyz at 7:48 AM on December 22, 2024
I literally just asked elsewhere that someone make a post for all Trump's dumb pre-inauguration blustering, but maybe this thread works.
- Trump threatens to take back control of Panama Canal over ‘ridiculous fees’
- Trump threatens tariffs if EU doesn’t buy more oil and gas from US
It'll become fun when Trump really pushes other nations too far and they do cut the US off. :)
posted by jeffburdges at 7:57 AM on December 22, 2024
- Trump threatens to take back control of Panama Canal over ‘ridiculous fees’
- Trump threatens tariffs if EU doesn’t buy more oil and gas from US
It'll become fun when Trump really pushes other nations too far and they do cut the US off. :)
posted by jeffburdges at 7:57 AM on December 22, 2024
Why would this thread about Canadian politics be a place to talk about Trump?
posted by jacquilynne at 8:04 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:04 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
jacquilynne, Americans have no other frames of reference for other countries' politics so they make it about their own.
Anyway, flagged because nothing to do with Canada that comment
posted by Kitteh at 8:08 AM on December 22, 2024 [1 favorite]
Anyway, flagged because nothing to do with Canada that comment
posted by Kitteh at 8:08 AM on December 22, 2024 [1 favorite]
It's not a good place to "discuss" Trump, but I never said discuss either. I'm personally only interested in a catalog his dumb threats, not people's reactions, certianly not Americans' reactions, but only this particular threat caused any serious reactions so far. Anyways whatever.
posted by jeffburdges at 8:11 AM on December 22, 2024
posted by jeffburdges at 8:11 AM on December 22, 2024
Okay, so why would this thread about Canadian politics be a place to catalogue Trump's threats?
The 51st state stuff is on topic to a degree, but Panama? The EU?
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
The 51st state stuff is on topic to a degree, but Panama? The EU?
posted by jacquilynne at 8:58 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Just a note to please pause on derails about Trump! You can create a separate thread if need be.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 9:31 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 9:31 AM on December 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
Any idea how much Canada suffers if they simply cut no deal and faced real tariff? It'd violate NAFTA so that'd impose delays.
Also, how much of the supposedly American oil boom is really Canadian shale with refining steps in the US? How easily could Canada shut down shale oil projects, or even pipeline projects, that'd potentially face tariffs once NAFTA ends? And sell directly to China, Japan, etc?
All oil refineries are evil, but it'd be hilarious if China built an American style shale refinery because of this, built either in China or Canada. lol
posted by jeffburdges at 11:43 AM on December 22, 2024
Also, how much of the supposedly American oil boom is really Canadian shale with refining steps in the US? How easily could Canada shut down shale oil projects, or even pipeline projects, that'd potentially face tariffs once NAFTA ends? And sell directly to China, Japan, etc?
All oil refineries are evil, but it'd be hilarious if China built an American style shale refinery because of this, built either in China or Canada. lol
posted by jeffburdges at 11:43 AM on December 22, 2024
jeffburdges,
This isn't something I'd normally say, but I really feel it needs to be said at the moment. Whatever you think you're discussing isn't what anybody else in this thread is discussing. All you're doing is sidetracking and derailing everything. Please step back and read about what's happening rather than jumping in with totally off-base opinions and topic deviations.
In reality, this thread has NOTHING to do do Trump and his threats and his tariffs or the American economy. This thread is about INTERNAL CANADIAN POLITICS. Whether the Trump threats had happened or not, I'm guessing we still would have been in the same--or a very similar boat.
This situation came about because Trudeau has been looking to lure Carney into his Cabinet for a while, but he's especially anxious to do it right now because of how badly his prospects are of winning the next election. Like a lot of guys who are in charge of things, he thought he could get the woman who has been willing cleaning up a lot of messes to once again do the dirty work and not kick up a fuss about it. And like a lot of these idiot men, he had no idea that women who are great at putting up with stuff for a long, long time, do eventually reach their limits and say, "that's it, that's the final straw." That's what happened to Freeland, and rather than just going quietly she took the step of pulling the pin on the grenade--in large part because she's trying to protect her own reputation, but also because she feels the need to stand up for her convictions--convictions which really seemed to have been put to the test during the budget-writing process.
This is a Canadian economic discussion (and yes, Trump and his tariff threats play a role in that, but it's a minor one). It's a discussion about how you do politics in the backrooms. It's a thread about male hubris and the lack of respect for women--and if you don't believe that, go onto LinkedIn and see all the male professionals sharing their opinions about how Freeland was wrong because she didn't quit quietly and gracefully. And see how well those opinions are sitting with women. It's a thread about political alliances across party lines and how far they can be pushed and what happens when they break. It's a thread about the rise of right-wing populism in Canada and how a party leader with no ideas, no plans and no ability to take responsibility and do the right thing for the security of the country (yes, Pierre, I mean you and ongoing cowardice to obtain a security clearance) and no understanding of how the Canadian legislative system actually works (no you have no ability to call upon the GG to do anything) but who is great at drumming up discontent amongst MAGA-wannabes (for lack of a better phrase that doesn't include casting aspersions on their intellectual capacity and selfishness) and spouting off kindergarten-level three word phrases has managed to create a communications machine that is driving the agenda in this country and steering us on a path to ruin should he ever get into power.
If you've got some comments ore insights into those topics (and other related ones I haven't listed here such as recent Cabinet appointments), this is the place to share those.
posted by sardonyx at 5:09 PM on December 22, 2024 [9 favorites]
This isn't something I'd normally say, but I really feel it needs to be said at the moment. Whatever you think you're discussing isn't what anybody else in this thread is discussing. All you're doing is sidetracking and derailing everything. Please step back and read about what's happening rather than jumping in with totally off-base opinions and topic deviations.
In reality, this thread has NOTHING to do do Trump and his threats and his tariffs or the American economy. This thread is about INTERNAL CANADIAN POLITICS. Whether the Trump threats had happened or not, I'm guessing we still would have been in the same--or a very similar boat.
This situation came about because Trudeau has been looking to lure Carney into his Cabinet for a while, but he's especially anxious to do it right now because of how badly his prospects are of winning the next election. Like a lot of guys who are in charge of things, he thought he could get the woman who has been willing cleaning up a lot of messes to once again do the dirty work and not kick up a fuss about it. And like a lot of these idiot men, he had no idea that women who are great at putting up with stuff for a long, long time, do eventually reach their limits and say, "that's it, that's the final straw." That's what happened to Freeland, and rather than just going quietly she took the step of pulling the pin on the grenade--in large part because she's trying to protect her own reputation, but also because she feels the need to stand up for her convictions--convictions which really seemed to have been put to the test during the budget-writing process.
This is a Canadian economic discussion (and yes, Trump and his tariff threats play a role in that, but it's a minor one). It's a discussion about how you do politics in the backrooms. It's a thread about male hubris and the lack of respect for women--and if you don't believe that, go onto LinkedIn and see all the male professionals sharing their opinions about how Freeland was wrong because she didn't quit quietly and gracefully. And see how well those opinions are sitting with women. It's a thread about political alliances across party lines and how far they can be pushed and what happens when they break. It's a thread about the rise of right-wing populism in Canada and how a party leader with no ideas, no plans and no ability to take responsibility and do the right thing for the security of the country (yes, Pierre, I mean you and ongoing cowardice to obtain a security clearance) and no understanding of how the Canadian legislative system actually works (no you have no ability to call upon the GG to do anything) but who is great at drumming up discontent amongst MAGA-wannabes (for lack of a better phrase that doesn't include casting aspersions on their intellectual capacity and selfishness) and spouting off kindergarten-level three word phrases has managed to create a communications machine that is driving the agenda in this country and steering us on a path to ruin should he ever get into power.
If you've got some comments ore insights into those topics (and other related ones I haven't listed here such as recent Cabinet appointments), this is the place to share those.
posted by sardonyx at 5:09 PM on December 22, 2024 [9 favorites]
And I should probably say that while I suspect PP knows that an appeal from the Leader of the Opposition to the GG isn't a thing that is done/can be done under our political system, that fact that he's spouting off about doing so, grandstanding in front of cameras and playing on people's lack of knowledge about how politics in Canada actually works is, in many ways, worse (as it's coming from a place of evil and power-hungry greed) as opposed to sheer stupidity and not being able to comprehend how the only job he has ever held in his life (MP with pay-grade bumps) actually works.
posted by sardonyx at 6:54 PM on December 22, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 6:54 PM on December 22, 2024 [4 favorites]
fuck yeah, sardonyx!
posted by scruss at 9:33 AM on December 23, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 9:33 AM on December 23, 2024 [3 favorites]
In reality, this thread has NOTHING to do do Trump and his threats and his tariffs or the American economy. This thread is about INTERNAL CANADIAN POLITICS. Whether the Trump threats had happened or not, I'm guessing we still would have been in the same--or a very similar boat.I'm not sure I agree with this. I think Freeland knows the threat of TFG because she knows how Putinism works. I think she's principled enough that she'd be willing to endure a LOT in the name of 'team' if the team was doing the right thing. Her resignation letter addresses this directly, though many poo-poo this and see it as a smokescreen for a personal grudge and internal intrigue.
I'm simple, I pretty much take her at her word (but I've always seen her as principled and a more-or-less straight shooter).
That all said, this isn't the right thread for TFG and his newfound interest in Lebensraum.posted by mazola at 10:03 AM on December 23, 2024 [1 favorite]
Okay, maybe nothing was overstating it, but I still think that the issue came down to Trudeau's timing. If he had brought Carney in earlier before the fall economic statement was at the printer's or later--say after the inauguration, I don't think Freeland would have resigned. But that combination of a budget she didn't agree with, the fact that she was going to be the face of the budget for a day or two before she was unceremoniously dumped (as she said, that kind of move makes it look like she didn't have the confidence of the PM) and the shuffling her off to an important position (dealing with the US) that lacked a structure or funding or a political apparatus, was just too much to take.
I have no doubt that she knows exactly the threat Trump poses, and the fact that Trump is happy she's gone speaks volumes to me about her effectiveness in standing up to the big man-baby bully. I just believe it was all too much at once, with no consideration for her at all, which, again is really typical of how a lot of men at the top operate, even the "good" ones, the ones that consider themselves feminists or allies or whatever term they prefer. They just have some kind of (wilful or not) blind spot that allows them to not think about the effects their decisions have on the women in their organizations--especially the dutiful, loyal soldier type of women who do whatever is needed and then go above and beyond. That dedication is just taken for granted. But people aren't limitless wells. There are times when the expectations versus rewards ratio just becomes so lopsided and unbalanced that the only thing the woman can do is say, "nope, that's it, that's my limit and I'm done." And I believe Freeland hit that point.
And I say this as somebody who thinks Trudeau has done a pretty decent job overall, all things considered, and who doesn't necessarily believe that Freeland is without faults.
posted by sardonyx at 1:15 PM on December 23, 2024 [2 favorites]
I have no doubt that she knows exactly the threat Trump poses, and the fact that Trump is happy she's gone speaks volumes to me about her effectiveness in standing up to the big man-baby bully. I just believe it was all too much at once, with no consideration for her at all, which, again is really typical of how a lot of men at the top operate, even the "good" ones, the ones that consider themselves feminists or allies or whatever term they prefer. They just have some kind of (wilful or not) blind spot that allows them to not think about the effects their decisions have on the women in their organizations--especially the dutiful, loyal soldier type of women who do whatever is needed and then go above and beyond. That dedication is just taken for granted. But people aren't limitless wells. There are times when the expectations versus rewards ratio just becomes so lopsided and unbalanced that the only thing the woman can do is say, "nope, that's it, that's my limit and I'm done." And I believe Freeland hit that point.
And I say this as somebody who thinks Trudeau has done a pretty decent job overall, all things considered, and who doesn't necessarily believe that Freeland is without faults.
posted by sardonyx at 1:15 PM on December 23, 2024 [2 favorites]
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