Behold, two houses, both alike in dignity
January 3, 2025 7:56 PM Subscribe
Of the US examples, I count a few.. houses?
The scale of comparison seems off. Or perhaps the rate at which the US declines in areas of relevance is simply accelerating.
Hill House: set out to build a "house for the 21st century".. The sprawling residence also features a submerged amphitheatre and a pool deck.
Maybe it's my mood, but that does sound like fitting architectural design from a fading empire
posted by ginger.beef at 8:17 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
The scale of comparison seems off. Or perhaps the rate at which the US declines in areas of relevance is simply accelerating.
Hill House: set out to build a "house for the 21st century".. The sprawling residence also features a submerged amphitheatre and a pool deck.
Maybe it's my mood, but that does sound like fitting architectural design from a fading empire
posted by ginger.beef at 8:17 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
Comparing the two feels weird due to the fact that the buildings had very different purposes. I would like to see what houses and apartment buildings of interest in China look like to better compare the two. And I'm not being snide, I really would find it interesting to see what fancy houses in China are designed to be like
posted by Higherfasterforwards at 8:27 PM on January 3 [3 favorites]
posted by Higherfasterforwards at 8:27 PM on January 3 [3 favorites]
The Chinese projects are pretty fucking cool.
Like a bunch of the US houses, not so much the bigger buildings, they are just boring.
posted by Windopaene at 8:30 PM on January 3 [1 favorite]
Like a bunch of the US houses, not so much the bigger buildings, they are just boring.
posted by Windopaene at 8:30 PM on January 3 [1 favorite]
Man, if you ever thought that MeFi comments could get excessively negative (not on this FPP! but just in general), dezeen.com really gives us a run for our money.
The Beijing City Library seems cool. Also seems like it could be a real pain to actually try and browse the stacks, but it feels important to have public places to work and gather that are interesting and ambitious in scale.
posted by btfreek at 10:04 PM on January 3
The Beijing City Library seems cool. Also seems like it could be a real pain to actually try and browse the stacks, but it feels important to have public places to work and gather that are interesting and ambitious in scale.
posted by btfreek at 10:04 PM on January 3
The US needs to up its game. The Chinese are killing us.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:01 PM on January 3
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 11:01 PM on January 3
Man, if you ever thought that MeFi comments could get excessively negative..
A friend of mine says there’s nothing as depressing as a group of landscape architects sitting outside a nice café on a lovely street eviscerating the scene. I’ll try to avoid the nadir.
Lots happening in China (never been there, had friends and clients there), on the face it seems a place that still believes in itself (but with 17% unemployment, and totalitarianism how can it continue?). They do make lovely brickwork like the Brick Shell Library, very elegant, with the (half)ring-beam base which brings to mind a cooling tower, and the floor echoes the building, nice.
One of my favourite books is New Chinese Architecture: Twenty Women Building the Future [thamesandhudson 2019] - bridges, towers, residences, pavilions, and deep retrofits of silos and industrial buildings. There’s a lot of content on being a female designer in China too. But no designers of the Dezeen works.
I loved Woven Gateway and Sky Ring, a cheeky piece in some ways. I can't imagine anyone doing anything that brave here. The Qingdao Mall roof seems designed to experience the sky .. and be looked down on - I don't know if it's a’ thing’ but in the (first) year of Covid I met a young Chinese woman travelling NZ who would take a drone out for fun (at least that's what I hope she was doing with it!). I wonder if that's the case there and partly what drives this design.
From the outside America seems to believe in very little, I think that's why (some of) the domestic architecture in this piece is far more spirited than any of the large urban works (except Libeskind imo, more humanist & less Capitalist idk). Since 9/11 (I think - haven't seen much written about it) there's been a trend (at least in the ‘West’) towards enclosure and courtyards in architecture, landscape and planning. A certain amount of this also looks (somewhat naively) defensive.
The North Fork house would be equally at home in the New Forest southern England, just West of Portsmouth. I did a project a year ago that looked very close to the Fire Island House. Built 1961, and somehow completely unrenovated, a lot of fun to bring into the 21st century while preserving its early 60’s roots.
It’s a 2023 build, but I really enjoy Eric Owen Moss’ (W)rapper, it fits in well with other Moss works in that area - and it's an engineering marvel to have a column-free large tower (240; / 73m) in a serious earthquake zone. I've studied Moss’ work and spent time in the Hayden Tract/SPAR City complex in Culver City and will do so again if I get the chance, but I feel almost nervous even discussing it online as people (other designers) find it so fashionable to bash everything new. But for anyone into elegant earthquake engineering Darama et al’s. paper (W)rapper Tower: Engineering an Occupied Sculpture [2020 Conf. Earthquake Engineering on wcee.nicee.org, 2.6Mb .pdf ] is a great and graphical read.
posted by unearthed at 11:35 PM on January 3 [11 favorites]
A friend of mine says there’s nothing as depressing as a group of landscape architects sitting outside a nice café on a lovely street eviscerating the scene. I’ll try to avoid the nadir.
Lots happening in China (never been there, had friends and clients there), on the face it seems a place that still believes in itself (but with 17% unemployment, and totalitarianism how can it continue?). They do make lovely brickwork like the Brick Shell Library, very elegant, with the (half)ring-beam base which brings to mind a cooling tower, and the floor echoes the building, nice.
One of my favourite books is New Chinese Architecture: Twenty Women Building the Future [thamesandhudson 2019] - bridges, towers, residences, pavilions, and deep retrofits of silos and industrial buildings. There’s a lot of content on being a female designer in China too. But no designers of the Dezeen works.
I loved Woven Gateway and Sky Ring, a cheeky piece in some ways. I can't imagine anyone doing anything that brave here. The Qingdao Mall roof seems designed to experience the sky .. and be looked down on - I don't know if it's a’ thing’ but in the (first) year of Covid I met a young Chinese woman travelling NZ who would take a drone out for fun (at least that's what I hope she was doing with it!). I wonder if that's the case there and partly what drives this design.
From the outside America seems to believe in very little, I think that's why (some of) the domestic architecture in this piece is far more spirited than any of the large urban works (except Libeskind imo, more humanist & less Capitalist idk). Since 9/11 (I think - haven't seen much written about it) there's been a trend (at least in the ‘West’) towards enclosure and courtyards in architecture, landscape and planning. A certain amount of this also looks (somewhat naively) defensive.
The North Fork house would be equally at home in the New Forest southern England, just West of Portsmouth. I did a project a year ago that looked very close to the Fire Island House. Built 1961, and somehow completely unrenovated, a lot of fun to bring into the 21st century while preserving its early 60’s roots.
It’s a 2023 build, but I really enjoy Eric Owen Moss’ (W)rapper, it fits in well with other Moss works in that area - and it's an engineering marvel to have a column-free large tower (240; / 73m) in a serious earthquake zone. I've studied Moss’ work and spent time in the Hayden Tract/SPAR City complex in Culver City and will do so again if I get the chance, but I feel almost nervous even discussing it online as people (other designers) find it so fashionable to bash everything new. But for anyone into elegant earthquake engineering Darama et al’s. paper (W)rapper Tower: Engineering an Occupied Sculpture [2020 Conf. Earthquake Engineering on wcee.nicee.org, 2.6Mb .pdf ] is a great and graphical read.
posted by unearthed at 11:35 PM on January 3 [11 favorites]
The Wall Street Journal Spotlights Michigan Central Station in "The Best of Architecture 2024
posted by clavdivs at 11:46 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 11:46 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
Of the US examples, I count a few.. houses?
The scale of comparison seems off. Or perhaps the rate at which the US declines in areas of relevance is simply accelerating.
Actually, I think this is the perfect comparison. China is building large projects presumably open to the public and meant for the public good (or at least giving the appearance of doing so). Everyone can walk around and admire the design at any time.
The US is mostly building elaborate houses for rich jerks for their private enjoyment. Mere mortals like you and I are not permitted to enjoy such luxuries and have to settle for pictures in design magazines. The few larger projects listed are generic office buildings that are not very exciting and again, most people are not permitted to access. Maybe there are truly public projects of this scale in the US that I don't know about, but it feels like the perfect metaphor for American decline.
posted by photo guy at 11:52 PM on January 3 [7 favorites]
The scale of comparison seems off. Or perhaps the rate at which the US declines in areas of relevance is simply accelerating.
Actually, I think this is the perfect comparison. China is building large projects presumably open to the public and meant for the public good (or at least giving the appearance of doing so). Everyone can walk around and admire the design at any time.
The US is mostly building elaborate houses for rich jerks for their private enjoyment. Mere mortals like you and I are not permitted to enjoy such luxuries and have to settle for pictures in design magazines. The few larger projects listed are generic office buildings that are not very exciting and again, most people are not permitted to access. Maybe there are truly public projects of this scale in the US that I don't know about, but it feels like the perfect metaphor for American decline.
posted by photo guy at 11:52 PM on January 3 [7 favorites]
Architecture is judged by so many different metrics, for different reasons, and audiences, it's difficult to even judge the criticisms. For me, it's usually little more than pretty pictures of pretty buildings. What's highlighted as notable architecture is almost always inherently an elitist enterprise. If you're lucky, any particular example can be utilized by all levels of the public. Even if the form and function may be opaque, unappreciated or irrelevant to some (or most) who do.
What makes me skeptical about architecture in general is that it's often treated as symbolism and prestige, with subjective values to match. Almost always to convey a message about the creators and drivers of the project. An activity for very deep pockets meant to really impress other deep pockets. And the creatives who fancy themselves above such worldly concerns.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:17 AM on January 4
What makes me skeptical about architecture in general is that it's often treated as symbolism and prestige, with subjective values to match. Almost always to convey a message about the creators and drivers of the project. An activity for very deep pockets meant to really impress other deep pockets. And the creatives who fancy themselves above such worldly concerns.
posted by 2N2222 at 12:17 AM on January 4
If these are the best of buildings, the present looks grim, and I can only hope for the future. I agree that the Chinese buildings are more interesting than the American buildings, and I find it hard not to like Yunya Ishigami, but man...
Nearly all of these buildings are what Milan Kundera would call kitsch: the absolute denial of shit. Meaning, the denial of reality and hence the aesthetics of totalitarianism.
Has Dezeen never heard of global heating? Have these architects and their clients no sense of purpose or dignity in their lives? We need to change the world, and these guys are reproducing images from the 20th century -- the era that burnt the planet. Sad.
posted by mumimor at 12:52 AM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Nearly all of these buildings are what Milan Kundera would call kitsch: the absolute denial of shit. Meaning, the denial of reality and hence the aesthetics of totalitarianism.
Has Dezeen never heard of global heating? Have these architects and their clients no sense of purpose or dignity in their lives? We need to change the world, and these guys are reproducing images from the 20th century -- the era that burnt the planet. Sad.
posted by mumimor at 12:52 AM on January 4 [1 favorite]
I see all these fantastic cool projects and yet what I really want in Chicago is flat sidewalks and for the crumbling 1970s or older infrastructure to be repaired before it collapses completely.
posted by srboisvert at 2:36 AM on January 4 [4 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 2:36 AM on January 4 [4 favorites]
What will these buildings look like a hundred years from now? A thousand?
posted by gimonca at 5:03 AM on January 4 [1 favorite]
posted by gimonca at 5:03 AM on January 4 [1 favorite]
Actually, I think this is the perfect comparison.
We are in agreement, I was just coming at it obliquely
With storybored's blessing, might we invest this thread with examples of architectural design we like? Some of the examples from the posted link are striking, glad you shared, storybored
posted by ginger.beef at 6:16 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
We are in agreement, I was just coming at it obliquely
With storybored's blessing, might we invest this thread with examples of architectural design we like? Some of the examples from the posted link are striking, glad you shared, storybored
posted by ginger.beef at 6:16 AM on January 4 [3 favorites]
What will these buildings look like a hundred years from now? A thousand?
I’m perplexed by this comment. I mean, almost everything built a thousand years ago is rubble or dust now. A hundred years from now these buildings will look pretty much the same or repurposed, if they aren’t taken down by then, like every other building today.
Or was that an oblique comment on the style(s) of contemporary architecture?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:31 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
I’m perplexed by this comment. I mean, almost everything built a thousand years ago is rubble or dust now. A hundred years from now these buildings will look pretty much the same or repurposed, if they aren’t taken down by then, like every other building today.
Or was that an oblique comment on the style(s) of contemporary architecture?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:31 PM on January 4 [1 favorite]
almost everything built a thousand years ago is rubble or dust now
What?
I mean, yes, most of the common houses and farmyards and storage buildings have disappeared, though in many cases the materials have been re-used so they still exist in other, newer buildings. But the buildings in the Dezeen articles are prestige projects, meant to demonstrate wealth and power. And those buildings shouldn't disappear within 100 years, if alone because of their cost in CO2 and human labor. But you are right, they probably will. And unlike the timber, stones and bricks that were used for buildings during most of history, concrete structures are really hard to re-use for anything else than road rubble.
As for repurposing, I often wonder how skyscrapers will fare in the future. The problem with skyskrapers is not so much the construction (though it is a problem) as it is the maintenance. Linked article is a joke, but it is funny because it's damn near true.
posted by mumimor at 1:21 PM on January 4
What?
I mean, yes, most of the common houses and farmyards and storage buildings have disappeared, though in many cases the materials have been re-used so they still exist in other, newer buildings. But the buildings in the Dezeen articles are prestige projects, meant to demonstrate wealth and power. And those buildings shouldn't disappear within 100 years, if alone because of their cost in CO2 and human labor. But you are right, they probably will. And unlike the timber, stones and bricks that were used for buildings during most of history, concrete structures are really hard to re-use for anything else than road rubble.
As for repurposing, I often wonder how skyscrapers will fare in the future. The problem with skyskrapers is not so much the construction (though it is a problem) as it is the maintenance. Linked article is a joke, but it is funny because it's damn near true.
posted by mumimor at 1:21 PM on January 4
BTW, ArchDaily is a better source for contemporary architecture than Dezeen, IMO.
posted by mumimor at 1:25 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:25 PM on January 4 [2 favorites]
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