al gore did a little fundraising at a buddhist temple, this guy on the other hand ...
April 14, 2003 9:56 PM Subscribe
many of haliburtons subsidiaries pay no taxes as they are ensconsed in offshore tax havens. the vice president is collecting substantial sums in deferred payments, and sizable government contracts are being awared to this company without competition. should we ask our vice-president to encourage his former employer to pay corporate taxes like the most of the rest of americans and american businesses, considering the hefty sums of money being handed them by the american tax payer?
Yeah, good luck with that.
Of course, such is the talk of anti-american terrorists so...
That knock at your door is probably the friends of Mr. A'
posted by Windopaene at 10:38 PM on April 14, 2003
Of course, such is the talk of anti-american terrorists so...
That knock at your door is probably the friends of Mr. A'
posted by Windopaene at 10:38 PM on April 14, 2003
RylandDotNet: This is not about the rightness or wrongness of "soaking the rich" at tax time. Dick Cheney not only did not pay taxes, but he received a refund. In other words, somebody else's tax money went directly into Dick Cheney's pocket.
In addition, aside from the tax issue, Cheney is receiving no-bid contracts, which makes a complete mockery of the free market that this Republican administration claims to believe in. Dick Cheney is a safety-net capitalist, the economic analogue to the hypocritical chickenhawk. For Cheney, it's insider deals and taxpayer financing, while the rest of us get social Darwinism and laissez-faire.
posted by jonp72 at 10:43 PM on April 14, 2003
In addition, aside from the tax issue, Cheney is receiving no-bid contracts, which makes a complete mockery of the free market that this Republican administration claims to believe in. Dick Cheney is a safety-net capitalist, the economic analogue to the hypocritical chickenhawk. For Cheney, it's insider deals and taxpayer financing, while the rest of us get social Darwinism and laissez-faire.
posted by jonp72 at 10:43 PM on April 14, 2003
Said this before: Send a Millionaire to Washington and he becomes a bum. Send a bum to Washington and he becomes a Millionaire. This is the truth: rich people want to get richer, poor people want to get rich. If you are in power you and your friends benefit; if you are out of power you point out what assholes those in power are. What's changed?
posted by Mack Twain at 11:29 PM on April 14, 2003
posted by Mack Twain at 11:29 PM on April 14, 2003
Y'know, LimePi, I'm not a huge fan of GYWO, especially within MeFi, but that is probably the .01% of said circumstances that I'll just sit back and nod at.
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:06 AM on April 15, 2003
posted by Ufez Jones at 12:06 AM on April 15, 2003
You lefties are really oil-industry ignorant!
This Halliburton dead horse is a good example of the kind of chickenshit stuff you are blowing your wad on.
Halliburton is not even a large-cap stock. They don't actually own any oil fields, they just sell equipment and services to those who do; stuff like compressors and drilling rigs.
For comparison, Halliburton nets $100 million a year. Not exactly dot-com money, but a decent mid-cap company.
The other points of this post are bogus. Cheney is simply deferring a lump sum of salary (probably to avoid tax!), and why shouldn't any company apply all legal tax reduction strategies?
The bottom line is that Halliburton is not growing like wildfire, and Cheney is losing income to serve you.
In a country with a $2.3 TRILLION Federal budget and lots of companies worth more than $100G, people who prattle on about a company that sells valves making a few million more or less due to perceived political connections should get a life. No, the Iraq war was not for Halliburton.
Post more cartoons, then I can nod along too.
posted by dand at 12:45 AM on April 15, 2003
This Halliburton dead horse is a good example of the kind of chickenshit stuff you are blowing your wad on.
Halliburton is not even a large-cap stock. They don't actually own any oil fields, they just sell equipment and services to those who do; stuff like compressors and drilling rigs.
For comparison, Halliburton nets $100 million a year. Not exactly dot-com money, but a decent mid-cap company.
- Shell, a Dutch company, has a yearly net income is $10g, which coincidentally is the entire market capitalization of Halliburton.
- Exxon/Mobile (USA) nets $10G a year
- BP Amoco (English) nets $8G a year
- TotalFinaElf (French) nets $7G
- Chevron (USA) $1G
The other points of this post are bogus. Cheney is simply deferring a lump sum of salary (probably to avoid tax!), and why shouldn't any company apply all legal tax reduction strategies?
The bottom line is that Halliburton is not growing like wildfire, and Cheney is losing income to serve you.
In a country with a $2.3 TRILLION Federal budget and lots of companies worth more than $100G, people who prattle on about a company that sells valves making a few million more or less due to perceived political connections should get a life. No, the Iraq war was not for Halliburton.
Post more cartoons, then I can nod along too.
posted by dand at 12:45 AM on April 15, 2003
For comparison, Halliburton nets $100 million a year. Not exactly dot-com money, but a decent mid-cap company.
Then this is going to be a good year.
perceived political connections
Perceived? For the record, degrees of seperation are never expressed with negative numbers. So, um, zero is pretty good.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 1:05 AM on April 15, 2003
Then this is going to be a good year.
perceived political connections
Perceived? For the record, degrees of seperation are never expressed with negative numbers. So, um, zero is pretty good.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 1:05 AM on April 15, 2003
"should we ask our vice-president to encourage his former employer to pay corporate taxes like the most of the rest of americans and american businesses"
While tax evasion is never a good thing per se, it is a fact of life and I wonder if Halliburton should be singled out for special attention or if that's a political prejudice. By way of example, Accenture, despite being an American business, listed on the NYSE are headquartered for tax purposes in Bermuda. It's just announced revenues of £2.91bn for Q2 alone.
Shouldn't we go after the worst offenders rather than ones that offend us on a partisan basis?
posted by dmt at 2:48 AM on April 15, 2003
While tax evasion is never a good thing per se, it is a fact of life and I wonder if Halliburton should be singled out for special attention or if that's a political prejudice. By way of example, Accenture, despite being an American business, listed on the NYSE are headquartered for tax purposes in Bermuda. It's just announced revenues of £2.91bn for Q2 alone.
Shouldn't we go after the worst offenders rather than ones that offend us on a partisan basis?
posted by dmt at 2:48 AM on April 15, 2003
"Halliburton is not even a large-cap stock"
Yet it is "one of the world's largest providers of oil field services, operating in over 100 countries" (according the Hoover's link). Believe it or not, Ferraris can make for better transportation than, say, larger buses.
"Cheney is losing income to serve you."
Since *his* admin's tax cutting has left Cheney with a tax return of $95,858 in 2002 and he is weary of public scrutiny of his work, I'll say that this statement is wide open to interpretation.
"No, the Iraq war was not for Halliburton."
"Not *only*" is the correct term: after all, they did land a 7 billion no-bid contract from the U.S. government. This is not to say that there will be plenty more to go around.
posted by magullo at 2:52 AM on April 15, 2003
Yet it is "one of the world's largest providers of oil field services, operating in over 100 countries" (according the Hoover's link). Believe it or not, Ferraris can make for better transportation than, say, larger buses.
"Cheney is losing income to serve you."
Since *his* admin's tax cutting has left Cheney with a tax return of $95,858 in 2002 and he is weary of public scrutiny of his work, I'll say that this statement is wide open to interpretation.
"No, the Iraq war was not for Halliburton."
"Not *only*" is the correct term: after all, they did land a 7 billion no-bid contract from the U.S. government. This is not to say that there will be plenty more to go around.
posted by magullo at 2:52 AM on April 15, 2003
While we're on the subject of potential conflicts of interest we've recently confronted this issue (albeit in a less contentious manner) in the UK.
Supermarket tycoon, Labour party donor and biotech enthusiast turned Science Minister, Lord Sainsbury, placed in a blind trust all of his considerable financial assets upon his appointment to the Government. Nevertheless as a Minister he has made decisions which will definitely be of benefit to stocks almost certainly still in his portfolio...
American participants here may find the VP's former incarnation as a businessman distasteful but at least he's not underwriting the GOP like Sainsbury is Labour....
posted by dmt at 3:22 AM on April 15, 2003
Supermarket tycoon, Labour party donor and biotech enthusiast turned Science Minister, Lord Sainsbury, placed in a blind trust all of his considerable financial assets upon his appointment to the Government. Nevertheless as a Minister he has made decisions which will definitely be of benefit to stocks almost certainly still in his portfolio...
American participants here may find the VP's former incarnation as a businessman distasteful but at least he's not underwriting the GOP like Sainsbury is Labour....
posted by dmt at 3:22 AM on April 15, 2003
Actually, Haliburton seems like a perfect target for crackdown, if you ask me. The IRS, in order to keep us working shits in line, will often choose a random bad account to go after, to serve as an example to all of that person's friends, keep alive rumors of their horrible fangs, and so on. Scare everyone else into paying taxes.
A hit on Haliburton could have the same effect, scaring other big companies out of using too much political influence, and maybe even into using fewer shelters, if that aspect of the case is played up somehow...
Not that it could ever happen, though, given that no one in power is interested in removing the bad points of our system.
posted by kaibutsu at 3:23 AM on April 15, 2003
A hit on Haliburton could have the same effect, scaring other big companies out of using too much political influence, and maybe even into using fewer shelters, if that aspect of the case is played up somehow...
Not that it could ever happen, though, given that no one in power is interested in removing the bad points of our system.
posted by kaibutsu at 3:23 AM on April 15, 2003
Last June when fighting corrupt business practices was all the rage in Washington a law was passed that would deny government contracts to "offshore" companies and was set to go into effect this year.
Then along came the Homeland Security Act last December and lo and behold there was a rpovision that repealed the above law!
Imagine that!
I'll leave it as an exercise for your Google skills or active imaginations finding out exactly who was responsible for the repeal.
Throw the bums out!
Government of, by and for the corporations.
posted by nofundy at 5:00 AM on April 15, 2003
Then along came the Homeland Security Act last December and lo and behold there was a rpovision that repealed the above law!
Imagine that!
I'll leave it as an exercise for your Google skills or active imaginations finding out exactly who was responsible for the repeal.
Throw the bums out!
Government of, by and for the corporations.
posted by nofundy at 5:00 AM on April 15, 2003
If you are in power you and your friends benefit; if you are out of power you point out what assholes those in power are.
mack twain, can you say "baa baa"? i knew you could!
posted by quonsar at 6:25 AM on April 15, 2003
mack twain, can you say "baa baa"? i knew you could!
posted by quonsar at 6:25 AM on April 15, 2003
If you are in power you and your friends benefit; if you are out of power you point out what assholes those in power are.
What if you're not interested in power, just a fair system without Haves (Have-Way-Too-Muchs) and Have-Nots (Have-Nothings)?
Or is everyone presumed to be part of the sick power game that ruins the world?
posted by Shane at 6:29 AM on April 15, 2003
What if you're not interested in power, just a fair system without Haves (Have-Way-Too-Muchs) and Have-Nots (Have-Nothings)?
Or is everyone presumed to be part of the sick power game that ruins the world?
posted by Shane at 6:29 AM on April 15, 2003
This Halliburton dead horse is a good example of the kind of chickenshit stuff you are blowing your wad on.
hahaha ... thanks for catching me/us on that one .. bigguy. The issue is: the "deadhorse" we are discussing - is an enormous corporation recieving massive government contracts while avoiding paying the taxes that the rest of us have to pay for roads, educating the kids that work in their organization, social security for the parents of the inviduals who work for that organization, veterans benefits for the armed forces protecting their tax cheating asses in countries all around the world ... and getting those contracts without fair competitive bidding to companies (perhaps exclusively US companies) that DO pay their fair share. it seems that avoiding taxes would give them an unfair advantage in bidding projects over those that do, never mind their connections in the white house. turn rush down and read a book.
posted by specialk420 at 6:30 AM on April 15, 2003
hahaha ... thanks for catching me/us on that one .. bigguy. The issue is: the "deadhorse" we are discussing - is an enormous corporation recieving massive government contracts while avoiding paying the taxes that the rest of us have to pay for roads, educating the kids that work in their organization, social security for the parents of the inviduals who work for that organization, veterans benefits for the armed forces protecting their tax cheating asses in countries all around the world ... and getting those contracts without fair competitive bidding to companies (perhaps exclusively US companies) that DO pay their fair share. it seems that avoiding taxes would give them an unfair advantage in bidding projects over those that do, never mind their connections in the white house. turn rush down and read a book.
posted by specialk420 at 6:30 AM on April 15, 2003
"Or is everyone presumed to be part of the sick power game that ruins the world"? Maybe I'm a little jaded but that seems to be the nature of politics, Shane.
posted by Mack Twain at 8:53 AM on April 15, 2003
posted by Mack Twain at 8:53 AM on April 15, 2003
...that seems to be the nature of politics, Shane.
No argument there. But I still feel we should express outrage (and monkeywrench/gears) at this.
posted by Shane at 10:41 AM on April 15, 2003
No argument there. But I still feel we should express outrage (and monkeywrench/gears) at this.
posted by Shane at 10:41 AM on April 15, 2003
Just to point out - the $7bn contract was to put out oil fires, something few companies are capable of.
Oh, and they didn't make $7bn. Far from it. Somewhere in the order of 50 million so far.
The $7bn was a "Worst Case Scenario" number - if the entire countries oil field were sent up. At the moment, there are no oil fields burning, and at peak, there were very few. No money for Halliburton.
Just, you know, in the interest of the facts.
posted by swerdloff at 5:28 PM on April 15, 2003
Oh, and they didn't make $7bn. Far from it. Somewhere in the order of 50 million so far.
The $7bn was a "Worst Case Scenario" number - if the entire countries oil field were sent up. At the moment, there are no oil fields burning, and at peak, there were very few. No money for Halliburton.
Just, you know, in the interest of the facts.
posted by swerdloff at 5:28 PM on April 15, 2003
is an enormous corporation
"But these go to 11!"
If a $10G market cap (mid-cap) is ENORMOUS, then what is a $300G large cap oil company? Super huge collosal monstrous garguntuan x 30...
We won't have enough adjectives to cover the truly huge German and Japanese companies with your terminology.
recieving massive government contracts
I had no idea you were an oil fire expert! What's their margin on that contract?
while avoiding paying the taxes that the rest of us have to pay for roads
And tax expert! Are you planning on not declaring your dependants because you would be "avoiding" taxes?
As far as "taxes the rest of us pay", I got news for you: if the costs of oil services rise, the cost of oil rises, and YOU pay for it at the pump. All taxes are really on individuals.
without fair competitive bidding
So when your house is on fire, you say the first thing you would do is "take bids" on putting it out?
If the law is on your side, argue the law
if the facts are on your side, argue the facts
if you've got nothing, then pound the table.
posted by dand at 6:20 PM on April 15, 2003
"But these go to 11!"
If a $10G market cap (mid-cap) is ENORMOUS, then what is a $300G large cap oil company? Super huge collosal monstrous garguntuan x 30...
We won't have enough adjectives to cover the truly huge German and Japanese companies with your terminology.
recieving massive government contracts
I had no idea you were an oil fire expert! What's their margin on that contract?
while avoiding paying the taxes that the rest of us have to pay for roads
And tax expert! Are you planning on not declaring your dependants because you would be "avoiding" taxes?
As far as "taxes the rest of us pay", I got news for you: if the costs of oil services rise, the cost of oil rises, and YOU pay for it at the pump. All taxes are really on individuals.
without fair competitive bidding
So when your house is on fire, you say the first thing you would do is "take bids" on putting it out?
If the law is on your side, argue the law
if the facts are on your side, argue the facts
if you've got nothing, then pound the table.
posted by dand at 6:20 PM on April 15, 2003
simp ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smp)
n. Slang
A simple or foolish person.
- the facts are quite clear dand. i think i recommed turning rush off... or perhaps "fair and balanced news" (you know you are watching) and read a book. there you go bigguy.
posted by specialk420 at 8:47 PM on April 15, 2003
n. Slang
A simple or foolish person.
- the facts are quite clear dand. i think i recommed turning rush off... or perhaps "fair and balanced news" (you know you are watching) and read a book. there you go bigguy.
posted by specialk420 at 8:47 PM on April 15, 2003
If the law is on your side ... if its not... dont sweat it if you've got a man in the white house.
posted by specialk420 at 10:08 AM on April 16, 2003
posted by specialk420 at 10:08 AM on April 16, 2003
Haliburton is beating the system along with millions of other corporations that are not connected to your VP. What makes Haliburtons so bad for smart accounting and good legal drafting? I hate Bush, but's let get real. If I could beat the system (legally) I would too.
posted by Bag Man at 12:49 PM on April 16, 2003
posted by Bag Man at 12:49 PM on April 16, 2003
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posted by RylandDotNet at 10:06 PM on April 14, 2003