Children at Camp X-Ray
April 22, 2003 9:03 PM Subscribe
Children are being held at Camp X-Ray admits the US, as reported by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
"The children are still being interrogated..."
creepy. isn't there some kind of human rights convention that would cover interrogating children in a prisoner-of-war camp for over a year without affording them any representation or due process? I wonder if they're depriving them of food, water and sleep and making them stand in painful positions for hours on end, like we know they're doing with the prisoners in Afganistan.
posted by boltman at 9:28 PM on April 22, 2003
creepy. isn't there some kind of human rights convention that would cover interrogating children in a prisoner-of-war camp for over a year without affording them any representation or due process? I wonder if they're depriving them of food, water and sleep and making them stand in painful positions for hours on end, like we know they're doing with the prisoners in Afganistan.
posted by boltman at 9:28 PM on April 22, 2003
we could call these people POWs
this is how US government is thinking :
if you are old enough to carry an AK-47 you are old enough to be a fighter and therefore belong to the camp,
now the problem I see is that these people have been there for months and they still interrogate them ? is the only reason they keep them there to be interrogated just in case someone remembers where Osama is ?
Osama doesn't care about them, Bush is using them
posted by bureaustyle at 9:38 PM on April 22, 2003
this is how US government is thinking :
if you are old enough to carry an AK-47 you are old enough to be a fighter and therefore belong to the camp,
now the problem I see is that these people have been there for months and they still interrogate them ? is the only reason they keep them there to be interrogated just in case someone remembers where Osama is ?
Osama doesn't care about them, Bush is using them
posted by bureaustyle at 9:38 PM on April 22, 2003
This ain't right. Nobody should be "detained" for over a year with no representation, no matter what they have done or what they may know. We (the USA) make such a stink about democracy, freedom, and civil rights, while we are ignoring the most basic (and internationally agreed upon) rights of pow's.
posted by lee at 9:54 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by lee at 9:54 PM on April 22, 2003
Bush needs to go. Enough is enough. When did the US turn into the U.S.S.R.?
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:18 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:18 PM on April 22, 2003
Ah, so that's why we decided we didn't need the Geneva Convention anymore!
posted by jjg at 10:28 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by jjg at 10:28 PM on April 22, 2003
who are those two twin's that are around 12 years old and leading a large rebel army somewhere? I remember reading about it a few years ago and seeing a picture of them holding machine guns and smoking cigars. Those kids looked like cold-blooded killers.... anyone seen City of God?
posted by Espoo2 at 10:36 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by Espoo2 at 10:36 PM on April 22, 2003
the twins' followers said the boys -- who are Christians -- had powers from God, their followers believed bullets couldn't hit them and mines wouldn't explode under their feet...
posted by bureaustyle at 10:49 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by bureaustyle at 10:49 PM on April 22, 2003
Here's the most famous picture of Luther and Johnny Htoo, Espoo2--don't know if this is the specific image you're thinking of.
posted by hippugeek at 11:00 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by hippugeek at 11:00 PM on April 22, 2003
Also very sad is the fact that no one else is running this story so far.
posted by y2karl at 11:11 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by y2karl at 11:11 PM on April 22, 2003
y2karl, try this, there are a few stories. Several are under 16. Jeesh how dangerous can they be.
posted by bobo123 at 11:25 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by bobo123 at 11:25 PM on April 22, 2003
Good timing on that withdrawal from the treaty to establish an International Criminal Court, too.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:33 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:33 PM on April 22, 2003
Plus I recall the U.S. vetoed some U.N. motion against using under-18s in the military, but I couldn't find it on google. Oh and City of God was excellent, an epic that is chilling and funny in the style of Goodfellas.
posted by bobo123 at 11:38 PM on April 22, 2003
posted by bobo123 at 11:38 PM on April 22, 2003
I'm done looking at them, but I seriously doubt the "pro-war" blogs are discussing this. I remember when the alleged Iraqi "children's prison" was supposedly liberated, and all the righteous indignation those people spewed over it. One of them went on about how "children" and "prison" were just words that shouldn't go together.
I was severely tempted to point out the astronomical juvenile prison population in the U.S. and international condemnation of our government's human rights violations against children, but I was tired of being insulted and threatened with violence.
If I am any kind of pessimistic judge of human behavior, I predict the general public will never know about this. Have been wrong in the past, about U.S. news covering certain stories, but I've never been wrong in predicting widespread public knowledge of current events.
posted by son_of_minya at 12:11 AM on April 23, 2003
I was severely tempted to point out the astronomical juvenile prison population in the U.S. and international condemnation of our government's human rights violations against children, but I was tired of being insulted and threatened with violence.
If I am any kind of pessimistic judge of human behavior, I predict the general public will never know about this. Have been wrong in the past, about U.S. news covering certain stories, but I've never been wrong in predicting widespread public knowledge of current events.
posted by son_of_minya at 12:11 AM on April 23, 2003
This just makes me fucking sick. Not so much that these 16 year old kids are being held. If they were terrorists, call them that and then also call them POW's.
What makes me sick is that the United States whined and cried about the Geneva Convention during the war, but seem to have little use for it in this case.
We're turning into some kind of scary nightmare of a state.
posted by damnitkage at 12:55 AM on April 23, 2003
What makes me sick is that the United States whined and cried about the Geneva Convention during the war, but seem to have little use for it in this case.
We're turning into some kind of scary nightmare of a state.
posted by damnitkage at 12:55 AM on April 23, 2003
Only The Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and 22 states in the U.S. are able to execute people who were children at the time of their crime.
The U.S. does not execute children. Twenty-two states can try 16 and 17 year-old children for murder and place them in storage on death row until they reach 18. Then, as adults, they can be murdered at any time.
And you're surprised there are teenagers in X Ray?
posted by brettski at 2:44 AM on April 23, 2003
The U.S. does not execute children. Twenty-two states can try 16 and 17 year-old children for murder and place them in storage on death row until they reach 18. Then, as adults, they can be murdered at any time.
And you're surprised there are teenagers in X Ray?
posted by brettski at 2:44 AM on April 23, 2003
Following up on Bobo123's link, there is at least one break in U.S. media silence -- the Boston Globe is running it...though on page A2. Looks like the spin that's emerging is that the camp authorities just recently figured out that they have juvenile prisoners, and that they are getting counseling and better treatment -- though not necessarily lawyers.
It'll be interesting to see if this gets picked up by other papers.
posted by BT at 4:12 AM on April 23, 2003
It'll be interesting to see if this gets picked up by other papers.
posted by BT at 4:12 AM on April 23, 2003
Well, I guess there goes the argument that Saddam is evil because he put children in prison.
How soon until US troops liberate these children too?
Too bad they couldn't be stuffed back into their mother's uterus so they could elicit some sympathy from the wing nuts, eh?
posted by nofundy at 4:49 AM on April 23, 2003
How soon until US troops liberate these children too?
Too bad they couldn't be stuffed back into their mother's uterus so they could elicit some sympathy from the wing nuts, eh?
posted by nofundy at 4:49 AM on April 23, 2003
Jeesh how dangerous can they be.
Better yet, how dangerous will they be, after this experience, once they are finally released?
The United States—world leader in making friends and influencing people.
posted by rushmc at 6:58 AM on April 23, 2003
Better yet, how dangerous will they be, after this experience, once they are finally released?
The United States—world leader in making friends and influencing people.
posted by rushmc at 6:58 AM on April 23, 2003
As I recall, Bush did promise to leave no child behind.
posted by JackFlash at 7:49 AM on April 23, 2003
posted by JackFlash at 7:49 AM on April 23, 2003
Only The Democratic Republic of Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and 22 states in the U.S. are able to execute people who were children at the time of their crime.
Birds of a feather flock together.
posted by spazzm at 8:00 AM on April 23, 2003
Birds of a feather flock together.
posted by spazzm at 8:00 AM on April 23, 2003
The last line is very telling of at least some of the world opinion (in an ouch! kind of way). emphasis mine.
They have not been tried or convicted of any offence but are being held as part of what the US calls its war on terror.
posted by Mitheral at 8:26 AM on April 23, 2003
They have not been tried or convicted of any offence but are being held as part of what the US calls its war on terror.
posted by Mitheral at 8:26 AM on April 23, 2003
16 year old terrorists are still terrorists. How dangerous can they be? How dangerous can our 16 year old gang bangers be if they were indoctrinated since birth and given automatic weapons and high explosives?
posted by darian at 9:34 AM on April 23, 2003
posted by darian at 9:34 AM on April 23, 2003
if they were indoctrinated since birth and given automatic weapons and high explosives?
This is exactly the reason why the US has the wrong idea. Juvenile Delinquents are often raised as such. Can they be blamed for this? I belive that environment controls behavior. Should they be punished for something that's not their fault? No! Treatment.
posted by TurkishGolds at 9:47 AM on April 23, 2003
This is exactly the reason why the US has the wrong idea. Juvenile Delinquents are often raised as such. Can they be blamed for this? I belive that environment controls behavior. Should they be punished for something that's not their fault? No! Treatment.
posted by TurkishGolds at 9:47 AM on April 23, 2003
How dangerous can our 16 year old gang bangers be if they were indoctrinated since birth and given automatic weapons and high explosives?
16 year old gang bangers do get access to a lawyer and due process.
posted by spazzm at 9:56 AM on April 23, 2003
16 year old gang bangers do get access to a lawyer and due process.
posted by spazzm at 9:56 AM on April 23, 2003
And where did the 16-years old enter the equation?
The article states that they are under 16 years old.
That means they are at most 15, they might even be as young as 10 or 11.
posted by spazzm at 10:19 AM on April 23, 2003
The article states that they are under 16 years old.
That means they are at most 15, they might even be as young as 10 or 11.
posted by spazzm at 10:19 AM on April 23, 2003
No! Treatment.
The 12 Steps of Terrorists Anonymous
1) Admitted we were powerless over imperialism, and that our oil had become unmanageable.
2) Came to beleive that a nation greedier than our own could restore us to sanity.
3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Duhbya whether we understood Him or not.
4) Made a fawning, fearful example of ourselves.
5) Admitted to Jesus, to Duhbya, and to another human being of Anglo descent the exact nature of our wrongs.
6) Were entirely ready to have the USA remove all these defects of character.
7) Humbly asked Duhb to destroy our culture.
8) Made a list of all assets we had witheld, and became willing to make gifts of them.
9) Made direct conveyance of such assets wherever possible, except when to do so would overburden US transport craft.
10) Continued to take personal responsibility for myraid US social problems and when we were not responsible took the blame anyway.
11) Sought through obescience and slavish adoration to improve our conscious contact with Duhb as we understood Him, praying only to Jesus for knowledge of Duhb's will for us and the self-loathing to carry that out.
12) Having had an entreprenaurial awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to other terrorists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
posted by quonsar at 6:04 AM on April 24, 2003
The 12 Steps of Terrorists Anonymous
1) Admitted we were powerless over imperialism, and that our oil had become unmanageable.
2) Came to beleive that a nation greedier than our own could restore us to sanity.
3) Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Duhbya whether we understood Him or not.
4) Made a fawning, fearful example of ourselves.
5) Admitted to Jesus, to Duhbya, and to another human being of Anglo descent the exact nature of our wrongs.
6) Were entirely ready to have the USA remove all these defects of character.
7) Humbly asked Duhb to destroy our culture.
8) Made a list of all assets we had witheld, and became willing to make gifts of them.
9) Made direct conveyance of such assets wherever possible, except when to do so would overburden US transport craft.
10) Continued to take personal responsibility for myraid US social problems and when we were not responsible took the blame anyway.
11) Sought through obescience and slavish adoration to improve our conscious contact with Duhb as we understood Him, praying only to Jesus for knowledge of Duhb's will for us and the self-loathing to carry that out.
12) Having had an entreprenaurial awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to other terrorists, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
posted by quonsar at 6:04 AM on April 24, 2003
How dangerous can our 16 year old gang bangers be if they were indoctrinated since birth and given automatic weapons and high explosives?
Since birth? Then they're victims of child abuse and should be handled accordingly, not locked up like supervillains. This is fucking bullshit. When The Beast is run out of office I hope these kids are given the support and therapy they deserve instead of this crap.
posted by holycola at 5:48 PM on April 26, 2003
Since birth? Then they're victims of child abuse and should be handled accordingly, not locked up like supervillains. This is fucking bullshit. When The Beast is run out of office I hope these kids are given the support and therapy they deserve instead of this crap.
posted by holycola at 5:48 PM on April 26, 2003
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posted by spazzm at 9:11 PM on April 22, 2003