A More Perfect Union
September 17, 2003 8:35 AM Subscribe
216 years ago today, the constitution of the United States was signed with "Unanimous Consent"* from the thirteen states. In the years since, many have used the other writings of those governmental framers to interpret the constitution. To make that task easier, the University of Chicago Press offers The Framer's Constitution, an exhaustively annotated document that includes not just references to those other writings, but the complete texts as well. The print version is 3200 pages and costs a pretty penny, but thanks to the Liberty Fund, you can access it on-line for free.
Oh my, this looks quite good. If only I had more time right now. But it's been added to bookmarks...
posted by pmurray63 at 8:39 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by pmurray63 at 8:39 AM on September 17, 2003
Of course, the US isn't the only country with a constitution. If reading those is something you enjoy, you'll just love the University of Richmond's Constitution Finder, which contains links to every nation's constitutions, charters, amendments, and other related documents.
posted by ewagoner at 8:42 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by ewagoner at 8:42 AM on September 17, 2003
Appropriately enough, tomorrow the original document goes back on public display at the National Archives. Our manager saw a preview, and says that now all four pages of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are on display at the same time. Previously, only the first page of the Constitution was on permanent display; the other pages were rotated. He remarked that the Constitution appears to be in great shape, but the Declaration of Independence is nearly illegible. The Founding Fathers were not as archivally sound as we would wish.
posted by SealWyf at 8:48 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by SealWyf at 8:48 AM on September 17, 2003
Note that "Unanimous Consent" is a parliamentary term. You can ask that any given business be passed by Unanimous Consent, if no person present objects, the business is considered passed.
The reason it says "Consent" and not "Approval" is that often, a person who does object to passage will agree that they cannot stop the business from being passed by the body, and will allow the body to quickly pass the bill and get on with other work -- or, in the case of the Constitutional Convention, go home.
posted by eriko at 8:49 AM on September 17, 2003
The reason it says "Consent" and not "Approval" is that often, a person who does object to passage will agree that they cannot stop the business from being passed by the body, and will allow the body to quickly pass the bill and get on with other work -- or, in the case of the Constitutional Convention, go home.
posted by eriko at 8:49 AM on September 17, 2003
DOes it have the rare first draft with the word 'sucker' in it?
posted by Space Coyote at 8:53 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 8:53 AM on September 17, 2003
the Constitution appears to be in great shape, but the Declaration of Independence is nearly illegible.
I thought that at first, too. But then I realized a lot of those F's were really supposed to be S's.
Seriously though, this is a great resource, going into my bookmarks too. Thanks, ewagoner.
posted by soyjoy at 8:56 AM on September 17, 2003
I thought that at first, too. But then I realized a lot of those F's were really supposed to be S's.
Seriously though, this is a great resource, going into my bookmarks too. Thanks, ewagoner.
posted by soyjoy at 8:56 AM on September 17, 2003
If you're visiting Philadelphia, you can make a trip to the National Constitution Center and museum. Their web site is almost as good, and it contains resources of special interest to teachers. The National Archives on-line exhibit includes hi-res images of the original document -- great for those into handwriting analysis. The Government Printing Office has a site that contains a constitution annotated with Supreme Court decisions over the years, including a list of acts of congress that were deemed unconstitutional. Finally, usconstitution.net offers no-nonsense plain-text pages containing the constitution, related documents, biographies of the framers, and other goodies.
posted by ewagoner at 8:57 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by ewagoner at 8:57 AM on September 17, 2003
The Founding Fathers were not as archivally sound as we would wish
If they had only heard about the comic book archiving practiced by the dealers of today.
4mil mylar, stored vertically in a metal box that is vacuumed of all air and sealed shut.
It's not like we'd actually want to read it...
But seriously, the most important thing is not that these documents still remain in their original condition, but rather that the words and ideas are remembered and believed in. Thanks for the link.
posted by Stynxno at 9:00 AM on September 17, 2003
If they had only heard about the comic book archiving practiced by the dealers of today.
4mil mylar, stored vertically in a metal box that is vacuumed of all air and sealed shut.
It's not like we'd actually want to read it...
But seriously, the most important thing is not that these documents still remain in their original condition, but rather that the words and ideas are remembered and believed in. Thanks for the link.
posted by Stynxno at 9:00 AM on September 17, 2003
It's not like we'd actually want to read it...
Stynxno: There's a lot of that going around now unfortunately.
posted by AstroGuy at 9:06 AM on September 17, 2003
Stynxno: There's a lot of that going around now unfortunately.
posted by AstroGuy at 9:06 AM on September 17, 2003
Note to Americans: your constitution is not the Bible.
posted by riviera at 9:08 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by riviera at 9:08 AM on September 17, 2003
Note to Americans: your constitution is not the Bible.
That's why so many in our current government don't seem to want to read it.
posted by AstroGuy at 9:12 AM on September 17, 2003
That's why so many in our current government don't seem to want to read it.
posted by AstroGuy at 9:12 AM on September 17, 2003
the Declaration of Independence is nearly illegible. The Founding Fathers were not as archivally sound as we would wish.
They were the least offenders:
They were the least offenders:
The Declaration was often rolled up and moved from place to place during the American Revolution, and later, when the nation's capital moved from New York to Philadelphia to Washington. It got wet while a copy of it was made in 1823, causing the ink to fade further than it already had.posted by pmurray63 at 9:35 AM on September 17, 2003
During the nineteenth century the Declaration of Independence hung for almost forty years near a window with strong northern light at the U.S. Patent office.
Preservation experts suggested in 1903 that it be kept out of light and kept dry. They did not understand then that parchment needs a little moisture to prevent it from cracking.
Here's a little quirk regarding the right to vote in presidential elections (Scalia said in the Bush-Gore decision that there was no such guaranteed right) that needs ammending - as does the way the nation select presidents in general, but never mind that.
posted by raysmj at 10:00 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by raysmj at 10:00 AM on September 17, 2003
This is excellent! Much thanks ewagoner.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:25 AM on September 17, 2003
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:25 AM on September 17, 2003
"...to use this Fund to the end that some hopeful contribution may be made to the preservation, restoration, and development of individual liberty through investigation, research and educational activity."
What's Goodrich implying, exactly?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:31 AM on September 17, 2003
What's Goodrich implying, exactly?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 10:31 AM on September 17, 2003
pmurray63: my inner comic book geek cried out in horror upon reading your comment.
this is a great thread.
posted by keswick at 10:37 AM on September 17, 2003
this is a great thread.
posted by keswick at 10:37 AM on September 17, 2003
Here's a little quirk regarding the right to vote in presidential elections
Broder and the court are forgetting about the 14th amendment. Section 2 basically lays out universal manhood suffrage. If you don't let X% of your men over 21 vote for the usual set of offices, including electors of Prez and VP, you lose X% of your representation in the House. You can deny the vote to whoever you want, but there's a hefty price... theoretically. Obviously this was never enforced, though.
So, yeah, Florida's legislature could theoretically have assigned electors itself. Just as theoretically, that would have meant that Florida would have zero Representatives for the next 2 years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:09 AM on September 17, 2003
Broder and the court are forgetting about the 14th amendment. Section 2 basically lays out universal manhood suffrage. If you don't let X% of your men over 21 vote for the usual set of offices, including electors of Prez and VP, you lose X% of your representation in the House. You can deny the vote to whoever you want, but there's a hefty price... theoretically. Obviously this was never enforced, though.
So, yeah, Florida's legislature could theoretically have assigned electors itself. Just as theoretically, that would have meant that Florida would have zero Representatives for the next 2 years.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:09 AM on September 17, 2003
ZenMasterThis:
The Liberty Fund is a pretty standard right-libertarian think-tank-oid, trying to fit in the mold of classical liberalism (ie, John Locke and JS Mill; modern people like Hayek and Buchanan/Tullock who want to fit there). This carries over into a fairly hefty concern about property rights and liberties, so it's not shocking that they'd want some "restorations" to liberties they think are important (even if you or I might disagree).
Overall they're a pretty class act. Their press publishes a lot of stuff that's hard to get elsewhere, and often at ludicrously low prices (I finally got my own copy of The Calculus of Consent to disagree with!). They spend a lot of time and money getting academic dorks like me (including ones who aren't likely to agree with them) together in different places to blether about political philosophy, or constitutional organization, or whatever.
And the last few years, they've bought the beer at Public Choice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:21 AM on September 17, 2003
The Liberty Fund is a pretty standard right-libertarian think-tank-oid, trying to fit in the mold of classical liberalism (ie, John Locke and JS Mill; modern people like Hayek and Buchanan/Tullock who want to fit there). This carries over into a fairly hefty concern about property rights and liberties, so it's not shocking that they'd want some "restorations" to liberties they think are important (even if you or I might disagree).
Overall they're a pretty class act. Their press publishes a lot of stuff that's hard to get elsewhere, and often at ludicrously low prices (I finally got my own copy of The Calculus of Consent to disagree with!). They spend a lot of time and money getting academic dorks like me (including ones who aren't likely to agree with them) together in different places to blether about political philosophy, or constitutional organization, or whatever.
And the last few years, they've bought the beer at Public Choice.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:21 AM on September 17, 2003
ROU_Xenophobe:
Thanks.
I had my tongue firmly in cheek when I made that remark; should've used [/sarcasm] tags. I myself am a "little-l" libertarian.
I plan to check out the Liberty Fund a little more, later.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2003
Thanks.
I had my tongue firmly in cheek when I made that remark; should've used [/sarcasm] tags. I myself am a "little-l" libertarian.
I plan to check out the Liberty Fund a little more, later.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 12:02 PM on September 17, 2003
[this is good]
Thanks so much for posting this!
::grumble:: I can see I'm not going to get any work done this afternoon! ::/grumble::
posted by anastasiav at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2003
Thanks so much for posting this!
::grumble:: I can see I'm not going to get any work done this afternoon! ::/grumble::
posted by anastasiav at 12:23 PM on September 17, 2003
Piling on: ewagoner, thanks for posting this. Added to my "visit frequently, when you have ten or fifteen minutes to read a section" bookmark list.
posted by JollyWanker at 1:19 PM on September 17, 2003
posted by JollyWanker at 1:19 PM on September 17, 2003
Best post today goes to.... (drum roll)
posted by Keyser Soze at 5:20 PM on September 17, 2003
posted by Keyser Soze at 5:20 PM on September 17, 2003
$60 seems pretty reasonable to me.
posted by sharksandwich at 5:47 PM on September 17, 2003
posted by sharksandwich at 5:47 PM on September 17, 2003
But seriously, the most important thing is not that these documents still remain in their original condition, but rather that the words and ideas are remembered and believed in.
When I was younger - probably fourth or fifth grade - I had this weird fear that enemies of the US could sabotage our countrry and government by physically destroying the original copy of the Constitution. My parents tried in vain to convince me that the paper it was written on was not important - we had other copies we could work off if necessary.
Yeah, I know - I was a weird kid.
posted by deadcowdan at 6:21 PM on September 17, 2003
When I was younger - probably fourth or fifth grade - I had this weird fear that enemies of the US could sabotage our countrry and government by physically destroying the original copy of the Constitution. My parents tried in vain to convince me that the paper it was written on was not important - we had other copies we could work off if necessary.
Yeah, I know - I was a weird kid.
posted by deadcowdan at 6:21 PM on September 17, 2003
Note to riviera: It's our Bible if we want it to be.
America: Freedom of belief, for fun and profit, since 1776!
posted by jengod at 11:53 AM on September 18, 2003
America: Freedom of belief, for fun and profit, since 1776!
posted by jengod at 11:53 AM on September 18, 2003
Raysmj, I'd change that slightly:
"All American citizens shall have the right to vote, from the state or district in which they reside, for the President of the United States of America."
But then, this is one of few areas where I believe (self-styled constitutionalist that I am) the constitution should be amended. One hundred and ninety-nine years ago, millions of people's votes couldn't be tabulated with any accuracy or veracity. Today we can get it right within forty or fifty thousand give or take; the electoral college is no longer necessary.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:21 PM on September 18, 2003
"All American citizens shall have the right to vote, from the state or district in which they reside, for the President of the United States of America."
But then, this is one of few areas where I believe (self-styled constitutionalist that I am) the constitution should be amended. One hundred and ninety-nine years ago, millions of people's votes couldn't be tabulated with any accuracy or veracity. Today we can get it right within forty or fifty thousand give or take; the electoral college is no longer necessary.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:21 PM on September 18, 2003
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posted by ewagoner at 8:37 AM on September 17, 2003