Some people get a little carried away when you pull up stakes.
October 22, 2003 9:48 AM Subscribe
Make me an MCSE or I'll kick your ass. I came thisclose to sending a check for classes. Glad I didn't. We especially regret not being able to call each student individually; we would have preferred that rather than posting a notice at our facilities. It was determined that informing students in person resulted in too high of a risk of physical danger for our staff.
Do you get a bigger unemployment check if you're certified?
posted by goethean at 9:59 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by goethean at 9:59 AM on October 22, 2003
Background: Last week I was looking around for some MCSE boot camps. This one looked promising. Came close to actually signing up. Today I was looking at my Dice job listing email and saw a link offering discounts for same school. Clicked link and was met with their "goodbye" page. Looked like any normal "sorry, we ran out of money" page until I saw the part about "physical danger".
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2003
Do you get a bigger unemployment check if you're certified?
I hope so. I just lost my job.
posted by a3matrix at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2003
I hope so. I just lost my job.
posted by a3matrix at 10:12 AM on October 22, 2003
"We especially regret not being able to call each student individually; we would have preferred that rather than posting a notice at our facilities. It was determined that informing students in person resulted in too high of a risk of physical danger for our staff."
posted by brownpau at 10:15 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by brownpau at 10:15 AM on October 22, 2003
MS certification is a total racket. I know a bunch of IT managers and folks who zoom right past MCSD/AD/DBA/etc and want to know about experience.
It's just another way for MS to make money.
posted by xmutex at 10:20 AM on October 22, 2003
It's just another way for MS to make money.
posted by xmutex at 10:20 AM on October 22, 2003
I know a bunch of IT managers and folks who zoom right past MCSD/AD/DBA/etc and want to know about experience.
same here. (large publishing firm) Not sure we even notice it anymore,
might as well put your high score on galaga or super mario bros,
actually, we would be more impressed by that.
posted by milovoo at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2003
same here. (large publishing firm) Not sure we even notice it anymore,
might as well put your high score on galaga or super mario bros,
actually, we would be more impressed by that.
posted by milovoo at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2003
I love the title field on their homepage: "A new standard in technical training." Indeed.
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by MrMoonPie at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2003
I don't zoom past it. I appreciate people who have taken the time to learn the background into what goes into certain operations. But, its not like I would ever hire anyone who just had an MCSE, or that it could be used as a negotiating chip.
posted by LouieLoco at 10:56 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by LouieLoco at 10:56 AM on October 22, 2003
Hold your .favouritekindofhorse.
In the past MCxx (MCSE etc) was indeed distorted, expecially by the fact that one could "cheat" the tests by memorizing a serie of moderately variable questions.Now it's slowly changing to keep the cheaters out (at least as many as possible)
Now, in many so called "test" not necessarily related only to computers, there's a premium for cheating: you cheat and you pass the exam. Once if have the degree, you're gold.
Yeah, in theory.
But savy technicians know that memorizing a sequence of instruction is necessary, but not sufficient for the purpose of being "good technicians". The so called "experience" is necessary as well, but not sufficient. In real world (and I'm a technician) the best technician in the computer field are men/women
1)constantly self-pushing themselves for update of their knowledge
2) practing their theory all the time EVEN when the boss is not pushing them to "produce results" whatever the f*ck that means
3) certified, when certification studying really adds to their knowledge
To keep the message short: it's people that do A LOT of studying and practicing. Certification is just a part of their curriculum, working for X year in any industry doesn't mean anything from a technical point of view, except that now you know how it is to be mismanaged and why money and time affect your job more then you would like.
What makes them "different" to me is that they face a business in which "update of knowledge" is not an opportunity to have a raise, it's a requirement to work. Also updating information doesn't come from one central source (let's say, lawyers update when law updates, afaik) but comes from many different and often conflicting sources
and the update frequency can become a DAILY task.
It's an hell of a job, but I like it :)
posted by elpapacito at 11:00 AM on October 22, 2003
In the past MCxx (MCSE etc) was indeed distorted, expecially by the fact that one could "cheat" the tests by memorizing a serie of moderately variable questions.Now it's slowly changing to keep the cheaters out (at least as many as possible)
Now, in many so called "test" not necessarily related only to computers, there's a premium for cheating: you cheat and you pass the exam. Once if have the degree, you're gold.
Yeah, in theory.
But savy technicians know that memorizing a sequence of instruction is necessary, but not sufficient for the purpose of being "good technicians". The so called "experience" is necessary as well, but not sufficient. In real world (and I'm a technician) the best technician in the computer field are men/women
1)constantly self-pushing themselves for update of their knowledge
2) practing their theory all the time EVEN when the boss is not pushing them to "produce results" whatever the f*ck that means
3) certified, when certification studying really adds to their knowledge
To keep the message short: it's people that do A LOT of studying and practicing. Certification is just a part of their curriculum, working for X year in any industry doesn't mean anything from a technical point of view, except that now you know how it is to be mismanaged and why money and time affect your job more then you would like.
What makes them "different" to me is that they face a business in which "update of knowledge" is not an opportunity to have a raise, it's a requirement to work. Also updating information doesn't come from one central source (let's say, lawyers update when law updates, afaik) but comes from many different and often conflicting sources
and the update frequency can become a DAILY task.
It's an hell of a job, but I like it :)
posted by elpapacito at 11:00 AM on October 22, 2003
Must Cheat Standard Exam?
posted by Spacelegoman at 11:16 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by Spacelegoman at 11:16 AM on October 22, 2003
Minesweeper Consultant Solitaire Expert
posted by entropy at 11:22 AM on October 22, 2003 [1 favorite]
posted by entropy at 11:22 AM on October 22, 2003 [1 favorite]
Must Check Some Expert ? :)
posted by elpapacito at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by elpapacito at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2003
Hey, I've been an MCSE since 1998!!! Be nice!
The MCSE can be very hard to pass. I've had to study 30-40 hours per exam despite working with the technology at the time. (I've passed every one, I'm 10 for 10!) But it's not as easy as everyone would like you to believe. Even though I've been working with the products the whole time, it's still hard. The last test I took to upgrade from NT 4.0 to Windows 2000 consisted of a 4 hour test, over 300 questions, with a one-shot chance to pass it. If you didn't, you had to take all for exams separately. That is NOT easy, I don't care HOW MUCH you hate Microsoft and like to think everything they do sucks. All companies like it (Novell, Cisco, etc.) have certification programs that make them money, just like MS.
Those boot camps have very very low pass rates, even though they 'guarantee' you will pass. They guarantee you time in their lab for you to prep to continue taking the test over and over and over again until you pass. But most people get sick of the tests and give up. That's not their problem. If they've provided you with the lab, they've lived up to their "guarantee."
I know everyone says MCSE's are a joke...but what you suggest instead? It's up to the hiring manager to realize if they have a "paper MCSE" with no real experience or a real MCSE who takes the time to keep up with the tests and new technology and also works with the technology. You get what you deserve, and if you're lazy, you will get a "paper MCSE."
By the way, my favorite is "Must Consult Someone Else."
posted by aacheson at 11:43 AM on October 22, 2003
The MCSE can be very hard to pass. I've had to study 30-40 hours per exam despite working with the technology at the time. (I've passed every one, I'm 10 for 10!) But it's not as easy as everyone would like you to believe. Even though I've been working with the products the whole time, it's still hard. The last test I took to upgrade from NT 4.0 to Windows 2000 consisted of a 4 hour test, over 300 questions, with a one-shot chance to pass it. If you didn't, you had to take all for exams separately. That is NOT easy, I don't care HOW MUCH you hate Microsoft and like to think everything they do sucks. All companies like it (Novell, Cisco, etc.) have certification programs that make them money, just like MS.
Those boot camps have very very low pass rates, even though they 'guarantee' you will pass. They guarantee you time in their lab for you to prep to continue taking the test over and over and over again until you pass. But most people get sick of the tests and give up. That's not their problem. If they've provided you with the lab, they've lived up to their "guarantee."
I know everyone says MCSE's are a joke...but what you suggest instead? It's up to the hiring manager to realize if they have a "paper MCSE" with no real experience or a real MCSE who takes the time to keep up with the tests and new technology and also works with the technology. You get what you deserve, and if you're lazy, you will get a "paper MCSE."
By the way, my favorite is "Must Consult Someone Else."
posted by aacheson at 11:43 AM on October 22, 2003
How about "Must Consider Subcontinent Emigration"? That is if you want an IT job, especially in Charlotte, you'd better relocate to India.
posted by Shike at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2003
posted by Shike at 11:53 AM on October 22, 2003
I saw this on my local news yesterday.
One of the employees who lost their job without warning was a manager with a wife and eight children. They had recently located here from Virginia and he'd taken a pay cut (!) to work there. Another employee had only been working for three weeks. Also no notice.
And this company had had NO complaints from Better Business Bureau, no problems at all-till they shut down and put the sign on the door.
posted by konolia at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2003
One of the employees who lost their job without warning was a manager with a wife and eight children. They had recently located here from Virginia and he'd taken a pay cut (!) to work there. Another employee had only been working for three weeks. Also no notice.
And this company had had NO complaints from Better Business Bureau, no problems at all-till they shut down and put the sign on the door.
posted by konolia at 12:06 PM on October 22, 2003
I have obtained at least two jobs which required my MCSD certification. Some companies like to be "Microsoft Partners" which often means that MS requires them to have a certain number of certified folks on staff. At little-bitty companies a lot of times the hiring managers are ONLY interested in Microsoft Certified people.
posted by Fantt at 12:29 PM on October 22, 2003
posted by Fantt at 12:29 PM on October 22, 2003
The boot camp I'm now looking into, costs $8,000. For that price, I had better pass and they may want to toss in a little fellatio on the side. Seriously, I'm now reconsidering certification but from my experience on Monster and Dice and talking to my certified friends, some type of MC-whatever, will get you in the door much quicker.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2003
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:59 PM on October 22, 2003
Lucky escape, KevinSkomsvold. $8,000 seems like a hell of a lot of money, though. It would take you quite a while to get a return on that investment, wouldn't it?
posted by dg at 4:36 PM on October 22, 2003
posted by dg at 4:36 PM on October 22, 2003
$8,000 for a certification? That's a year of college at some (good) state schools. What a friggin' racket. Do they make you buy the books, too?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2003
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:13 PM on October 22, 2003
Well KevinSkomsvold, all I can say is READ THE FINE PRINT about their "guarantee." And don't expect to do it in a week. It take a LOT Of studying to pass those things, unless you cheat and visit the MS Braindump site.
If you want to save the$$ and all you want is to easily pass the tests without really learning the content (which is what happends when you do a bootcamp,) then go there and do it yourself.
posted by aacheson at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2003
If you want to save the$$ and all you want is to easily pass the tests without really learning the content (which is what happends when you do a bootcamp,) then go there and do it yourself.
posted by aacheson at 8:16 AM on October 23, 2003
What the fuck does MCSE stand for? Christ.
posted by sharksandwich at 8:02 PM on October 23, 2003
posted by sharksandwich at 8:02 PM on October 23, 2003
Microsoft Certified System Engineer, sharksandwich. Generally refers to a test-based certification for core competency in the Windows server operating systems. Separate tests exist for the application suites, like Exchange or SQL or SMS, and they invented some other combo certifications, like MCSE+I or something, to reflect a windows server and web "expert".
Unrelated, but I always enjoy mentioning: I had as my personal best times a 3 second beginner, 11 second intermediate, and 58 second expert times on Minesweeper before I stopped playing. I'm kind of curious what the real best scores are (I don't buy that one site that just has a lot of edited images or video clips to 'prove' a low score). That was mostly back in the mid-90's actually, on Win3.1 (386), or later on a p200; I think the smaller resolution screens and old wheel mice actually helped, because it gave a less 'jerky' response to zip to individual squares.
But more to the point, those scores show all prospective lady friends who are reading this what an amazingly passionate, sensitive, yet masculine and confident a lover I am. Send photos to hincandenza, no fat chicks please. =)
posted by hincandenza at 1:15 AM on October 24, 2003 [1 favorite]
Unrelated, but I always enjoy mentioning: I had as my personal best times a 3 second beginner, 11 second intermediate, and 58 second expert times on Minesweeper before I stopped playing. I'm kind of curious what the real best scores are (I don't buy that one site that just has a lot of edited images or video clips to 'prove' a low score). That was mostly back in the mid-90's actually, on Win3.1 (386), or later on a p200; I think the smaller resolution screens and old wheel mice actually helped, because it gave a less 'jerky' response to zip to individual squares.
But more to the point, those scores show all prospective lady friends who are reading this what an amazingly passionate, sensitive, yet masculine and confident a lover I am. Send photos to hincandenza, no fat chicks please. =)
posted by hincandenza at 1:15 AM on October 24, 2003 [1 favorite]
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posted by KevinSkomsvold at 9:50 AM on October 22, 2003