Iraqi official says limited German, French help won't be forgotten
October 23, 2003 3:23 PM Subscribe
Iraqi official says limited German, French help won't be forgotten "As far as Germany and France are concerned, really, this was a regrettable position they had," Allawi said. "I don't think the Iraqis are going to forget easily that in the hour of need, those countries wanted to neglect Iraq."
And the money owed France? Pehaps no Perier or VW outlets in Iraq.
You can tell the Iraq rebuilding process is coming along nicely now that they've begun holding grudges just like mature western democracies do. Way to grow, Iraq!
posted by mathowie at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2003
posted by mathowie at 3:29 PM on October 23, 2003
"Ayad Allawi, the current head of Iraq's U.S.-appointed governing council"
puppetfilter
posted by divrsional at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2003
puppetfilter
posted by divrsional at 3:42 PM on October 23, 2003
Let's focus on sewage and roads before worrying about Perrier and VWs, hmm?
And if I read the newspapers correctly, it's not France and Germany that are being attacked 35 times a day by people who don't want them in their country.
posted by Hildago at 3:47 PM on October 23, 2003
And if I read the newspapers correctly, it's not France and Germany that are being attacked 35 times a day by people who don't want them in their country.
posted by Hildago at 3:47 PM on October 23, 2003
I imagine Allawi's lines being read by that small chihauhau like dog in the American 'Kibbles and Bits' commercial. He hops excitedly over the big bulldog (representing America) going, "yeah - yeah - if you don't give me money - you'll - you'll be sorry!"
It makes the article much more amusing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2003
It makes the article much more amusing.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:23 PM on October 23, 2003
Just to come to p-road's defense, the misleading title of the post comes from the misleading title of the CNN article, which is pretty much par for the course as far as Iraq-related spin / cheerleading goes.
It's still funny/sad how they're trying to make this look as if this comes from the actual iraqis, though. And it's still not a very interesting FPP, IMO.
What's the news here? That the US mandated government of Iraq isn't all that friendly with Germany and France? This is surprising or meaningful, how?
And the speculation about mineral water and cars is just tacky and uninformed.
posted by signal at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2003
It's still funny/sad how they're trying to make this look as if this comes from the actual iraqis, though. And it's still not a very interesting FPP, IMO.
What's the news here? That the US mandated government of Iraq isn't all that friendly with Germany and France? This is surprising or meaningful, how?
And the speculation about mineral water and cars is just tacky and uninformed.
posted by signal at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2003
I'm half-expecting Putin to accuse the US of not adequately helping fund Chechnya's reconstruction.
But anyway let me remind Postroad that:
"...a poll released [late Spetember] finds that 62 percent think liberty is worth the hardship. But they don’t much like their liberators. The same Gallup poll shows their preferred country by far is—get this—France. And their favorite leader? Jacques Chirac! The French president’s approval rating tops George W. Bush’s by 13 points in Baghdad. Tony Blair couldn’t get elected dogcatcher."
posted by talos at 4:47 PM on October 23, 2003
But anyway let me remind Postroad that:
"...a poll released [late Spetember] finds that 62 percent think liberty is worth the hardship. But they don’t much like their liberators. The same Gallup poll shows their preferred country by far is—get this—France. And their favorite leader? Jacques Chirac! The French president’s approval rating tops George W. Bush’s by 13 points in Baghdad. Tony Blair couldn’t get elected dogcatcher."
posted by talos at 4:47 PM on October 23, 2003
Sure, but then again, they didn't kill any Iraqi people either.
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
posted by Durwood at 4:50 PM on October 23, 2003
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
posted by Durwood at 4:50 PM on October 23, 2003
I read the article out of mild curiousity, expecting it to be soemthing like, "When we are our own country again, we won't forget that France and Germany didn't want to attack us, and we're kind of grateful for that."
Instead, what I saw was something I'd expect to see on the ISN soundbytes on the Babylon 5 Series.
It's so sad that millions of people are going to read that, and actually accept it as fact, as opposed to propaganda.
posted by severed at 4:52 PM on October 23, 2003
Instead, what I saw was something I'd expect to see on the ISN soundbytes on the Babylon 5 Series.
It's so sad that millions of people are going to read that, and actually accept it as fact, as opposed to propaganda.
posted by severed at 4:52 PM on October 23, 2003
The position of Germany and France seems logical.
1> The UN didn't authorize a war against Iraq, therefore...
2> The US violated international law by attacking Iraq, and...
3> The US, by choosing to go it alone, should have to pay for the cost of the war and reconstruction.
Now, if the US decided to give the UN real authority over Iraq and wanted to establish some a reasonable timetable to Iraqi elections and self-rule, then I could see France and Germany helping out more. In fact, they almost assuredly would be donating more if the US had chosen that option... but they didn't.
The real issue, however, is whether Germany and France will waive or reschedule payment for the money owed them by Iraq. I think they will, so long as they see movement towards a democratic Iraq... but given that the US is afraid of democracy in Iraq, that might not happen any time soon.
The current political situation *is* actually similar to Vietnam -- the unpopular US-backed government in South Vietnam was supposed to allow elections after two years in order to unify the country, but cancelled them out of fears that Ho Chi Minh would win.
If we really have respect for democracy, we should keep our hands out of Iraqi politics, stop cancelling local elections, turn more power over to the Iraqi authorities, and let the democratic process work.
posted by insomnia_lj at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2003
1> The UN didn't authorize a war against Iraq, therefore...
2> The US violated international law by attacking Iraq, and...
3> The US, by choosing to go it alone, should have to pay for the cost of the war and reconstruction.
Now, if the US decided to give the UN real authority over Iraq and wanted to establish some a reasonable timetable to Iraqi elections and self-rule, then I could see France and Germany helping out more. In fact, they almost assuredly would be donating more if the US had chosen that option... but they didn't.
The real issue, however, is whether Germany and France will waive or reschedule payment for the money owed them by Iraq. I think they will, so long as they see movement towards a democratic Iraq... but given that the US is afraid of democracy in Iraq, that might not happen any time soon.
The current political situation *is* actually similar to Vietnam -- the unpopular US-backed government in South Vietnam was supposed to allow elections after two years in order to unify the country, but cancelled them out of fears that Ho Chi Minh would win.
If we really have respect for democracy, we should keep our hands out of Iraqi politics, stop cancelling local elections, turn more power over to the Iraqi authorities, and let the democratic process work.
posted by insomnia_lj at 4:59 PM on October 23, 2003
This October 5, 1998 "Iraq News" dispatch from the neocontrolled alternative universe of Laurie Mylroie purports to expose Dr. Ayad Allawi as the CIA's man to undermine the U.S. Congress. Allawi, as the head man of the Iraqi National Accord (INA), seems to have been the Company/State Department-preferred alternative to that banker extraordinare and Iraqi National Congress (INC) caudillo, Achmad Chalabi, so beloved by Laurie and her pals from the PNAC cabal.
Unfortunately, as this FPP shows, the fratricidal foreign policy pipedream that imagines a painless installation of long-term Iraqi exiles as the new "democratic" leaders of Iraq is still puffing away--perhaps on some fresh black tar from Herat.
And is'nt it downright poignant to read Dr. Mylroie expatiate thusly in 1998 on the raison d'etre of her "Iraq News" webzine?
"The central focus of "Iraq News" is the tension between the considerable, proscribed WMD capabilities that Iraq is holding on to and its increasing stridency that it has complied with UNSCR 687 and it is time to lift sanctions."
Note the trendy late twentieth century use of "WMD."
posted by rdone at 5:50 PM on October 23, 2003
Unfortunately, as this FPP shows, the fratricidal foreign policy pipedream that imagines a painless installation of long-term Iraqi exiles as the new "democratic" leaders of Iraq is still puffing away--perhaps on some fresh black tar from Herat.
And is'nt it downright poignant to read Dr. Mylroie expatiate thusly in 1998 on the raison d'etre of her "Iraq News" webzine?
"The central focus of "Iraq News" is the tension between the considerable, proscribed WMD capabilities that Iraq is holding on to and its increasing stridency that it has complied with UNSCR 687 and it is time to lift sanctions."
Note the trendy late twentieth century use of "WMD."
posted by rdone at 5:50 PM on October 23, 2003
Sure, but then again, they didn't kill any Iraqi people either.
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
Actually, the French helped Saddam kill them. Before the post-Gulf War embargo France was the second largest arms merchant to Saddam (after Russia). France had a strong trading relationship with the Baathists. Saddam personally owned 8.4% of the French defense and media group Lagardère, for example. My guess is that when Iraqis think about the French, they remember trade and investment, and just wish they could have it without Saddam who was part of it.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 11:00 PM on October 23, 2003
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
Actually, the French helped Saddam kill them. Before the post-Gulf War embargo France was the second largest arms merchant to Saddam (after Russia). France had a strong trading relationship with the Baathists. Saddam personally owned 8.4% of the French defense and media group Lagardère, for example. My guess is that when Iraqis think about the French, they remember trade and investment, and just wish they could have it without Saddam who was part of it.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 11:00 PM on October 23, 2003
neocontrolled
is that neo controlled or neocon trolled or just neocon controlled?
posted by Eirixon at 5:36 AM on October 24, 2003
is that neo controlled or neocon trolled or just neocon controlled?
posted by Eirixon at 5:36 AM on October 24, 2003
Somehow I don't think that the head of the US appointed "governing" council has room to talk about what the Iraqi in the street thinks.
posted by Cerebus at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2003
posted by Cerebus at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2003
Sure, but then again, they didn't kill any Iraqi people either.
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
Actually, the French helped Saddam kill them.
So by your logic, sporting goods stores are responsible for all American firearm deaths?
Do you think that the supplier of a weapon are ultimately responsible for the behavior of those who use them?
(not in my opinion, but hey, what do I know.) And if your source is correct, then the US is 5th on that list,
so we're killing some of our own? All-in-all it seems like a naive conclusion.
posted by milovoo at 7:35 AM on October 24, 2003
Yeah, they just would have been content to let Sadaam kill them.
Actually, the French helped Saddam kill them.
So by your logic, sporting goods stores are responsible for all American firearm deaths?
Do you think that the supplier of a weapon are ultimately responsible for the behavior of those who use them?
(not in my opinion, but hey, what do I know.) And if your source is correct, then the US is 5th on that list,
so we're killing some of our own? All-in-all it seems like a naive conclusion.
posted by milovoo at 7:35 AM on October 24, 2003
i wonder if they will only be serving freedom fries at the wests newest contribution to the iraqi life.
posted by specialk420 at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2003
posted by specialk420 at 10:29 AM on October 24, 2003
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Are they saying that they wish the French and Germans
had joined in on the fun?
posted by milovoo at 3:28 PM on October 23, 2003