76th Annual Academy Awards: Oscar Nominations
January 27, 2004 8:04 AM Subscribe
No Scarlett Johansen(sp?). Bleh. But Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara get to do Mitch and Mickey Live at the Oscars!!
posted by spartacusroosevelt at 8:16 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by spartacusroosevelt at 8:16 AM on January 27, 2004
It's great to see Depp and the whole Lost in Translation group get nods (I wonder if Bill will boycott/refuse like he said he would?), but there's always one stinker in the lot that doesn't deserve to be there: Seabiscuit!?!?!?!
posted by mathowie at 8:24 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by mathowie at 8:24 AM on January 27, 2004
My money is on the important, serious movie about the, uh, hobbits.
posted by dydecker at 8:24 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by dydecker at 8:24 AM on January 27, 2004
Soon the hoopla over Lord of the Rings will be over. Until of course, the critcally acclaimed 18 hour epic, Peter Jackson's Silmarilion is released. Ugh.
posted by shagoth at 8:27 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by shagoth at 8:27 AM on January 27, 2004
but there's always one stinker in the lot that doesn't deserve to be there: Seabiscuit!?!?!?!
Hey, as long as that slot isn't given to Cold Mountain, I'm happy.
Now, if there was only a way to get Renee Zellweiger out of the running for Best Supporting...
posted by tittergrrl at 8:27 AM on January 27, 2004
Hey, as long as that slot isn't given to Cold Mountain, I'm happy.
Now, if there was only a way to get Renee Zellweiger out of the running for Best Supporting...
posted by tittergrrl at 8:27 AM on January 27, 2004
Good luck City of God! To get direction, editing and cinematography noms was well deserved.
And I'm rooting for Depp as well. His performance made that film.
posted by PenDevil at 8:28 AM on January 27, 2004
And I'm rooting for Depp as well. His performance made that film.
posted by PenDevil at 8:28 AM on January 27, 2004
I agree with Matt. Seabiscut has no business being nominated.
And the Academy really blew it this year...they should have nominated Jack Black and the kids from "School of Rock." The song wasn't that great, but seeing them playing at the Oscars would have...uh, rocked.
posted by ColdChef at 8:29 AM on January 27, 2004
And the Academy really blew it this year...they should have nominated Jack Black and the kids from "School of Rock." The song wasn't that great, but seeing them playing at the Oscars would have...uh, rocked.
posted by ColdChef at 8:29 AM on January 27, 2004
Good luck City of God! To get direction, editing and cinematography noms was well deserved.
Indeed. But how did it not get nominated for best foreign language? Tossers.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:35 AM on January 27, 2004
Indeed. But how did it not get nominated for best foreign language? Tossers.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:35 AM on January 27, 2004
Also, between Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl, and Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, it appears to be the year of the colon.
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:39 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:39 AM on January 27, 2004
Keith Richards parody
Yet with his fish-hooks and amulets dangling bizarrely from his hair, he does look every inch the rock'n'roll buccaneer, and you can see exactly why Johnny Depp chose to model his character in Pirates of the Caribbean on the Stones' guitar-slinger. Richards enjoyed the portrayal and reveals that he recently had dinner with Depp. "He paid. Which only seemed right under the circumstances."
anyway, "Translation" is a funny little movie with very good cinematography and sound, a wonderful Murray and a weak script. Coppola's overrated, Virgin Suicides was a better film.
Inarritu was robbed (if you don't nominate "21 Grams" for Editing, you should be expelled from the Academy)
re Seabiscuit -- perfect middlebrow material, shiny cinematography (Schwartzman is a Michael Bay man after all) for an empty movie. it'll probably win something.
posted by matteo at 8:40 AM on January 27, 2004
Yet with his fish-hooks and amulets dangling bizarrely from his hair, he does look every inch the rock'n'roll buccaneer, and you can see exactly why Johnny Depp chose to model his character in Pirates of the Caribbean on the Stones' guitar-slinger. Richards enjoyed the portrayal and reveals that he recently had dinner with Depp. "He paid. Which only seemed right under the circumstances."
anyway, "Translation" is a funny little movie with very good cinematography and sound, a wonderful Murray and a weak script. Coppola's overrated, Virgin Suicides was a better film.
Inarritu was robbed (if you don't nominate "21 Grams" for Editing, you should be expelled from the Academy)
re Seabiscuit -- perfect middlebrow material, shiny cinematography (Schwartzman is a Michael Bay man after all) for an empty movie. it'll probably win something.
posted by matteo at 8:40 AM on January 27, 2004
Ufez: Actually it was nominated in the last academy awards for foreign language film. It didn't win.
posted by PenDevil at 8:42 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by PenDevil at 8:42 AM on January 27, 2004
I'm with Kiku Day, I thought that Lost in Translation was a pile of racist crap. I'm surprised that it got nominated, or maybe its racism hasn't been much discussed in the US?
posted by daveg at 8:43 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by daveg at 8:43 AM on January 27, 2004
it appears to be the year of the colon
That explains why that asshole Ben Kingsley* got nominated!
* I actually have nothing against Ben Kingsley, I just wanted to make a funny
posted by ColdChef at 8:45 AM on January 27, 2004
That explains why that asshole Ben Kingsley* got nominated!
* I actually have nothing against Ben Kingsley, I just wanted to make a funny
posted by ColdChef at 8:45 AM on January 27, 2004
I thought that Lost in Translation was a pile of racist crap.
Feh. It's an entirely truthful movie. Cinema is a reflection of society, warts and all.
posted by machaus at 8:48 AM on January 27, 2004
Feh. It's an entirely truthful movie. Cinema is a reflection of society, warts and all.
posted by machaus at 8:48 AM on January 27, 2004
What the hell was racist about Lost In Translation?
posted by PenDevil at 8:48 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by PenDevil at 8:48 AM on January 27, 2004
many people complained about the "Lip my stocking"-type Engrish joke
as a non-native English speaker, I found the "Loger Moore" photographer bit very funny. but I'm not Asian, so, what do I know (Italians get caricaturated all the time by Hollywood, anyway, even by great directors like Spike Lee, but I'm not particularly concerned about that. as we discussed in the past, I think Guess Who's Coming To Dinner was more racist than Lost in Translation, so...)
it's far from being a subtle movie about japan, but it is a movie about being disoriented ina a foreign culture, so you can't have many good insights about Japan in a movie like that (a movie, in the final analysis, about jet lag. not a very juicy topic. that's why many people consider it a movie about nothing. Coppola is good about creating a tone. she clearly doesn't care about plot too much)
posted by matteo at 8:55 AM on January 27, 2004
as a non-native English speaker, I found the "Loger Moore" photographer bit very funny. but I'm not Asian, so, what do I know (Italians get caricaturated all the time by Hollywood, anyway, even by great directors like Spike Lee, but I'm not particularly concerned about that. as we discussed in the past, I think Guess Who's Coming To Dinner was more racist than Lost in Translation, so...)
it's far from being a subtle movie about japan, but it is a movie about being disoriented ina a foreign culture, so you can't have many good insights about Japan in a movie like that (a movie, in the final analysis, about jet lag. not a very juicy topic. that's why many people consider it a movie about nothing. Coppola is good about creating a tone. she clearly doesn't care about plot too much)
posted by matteo at 8:55 AM on January 27, 2004
I wouldn't go so far as to call it racist crap, but the movie got a lot of its laughs from poking fun at a lot of bad asian stereotypes. Everyone told me it should be the best picture of the year and when I saw it the first time I couldn't get past all the jokes that were basically: "Hey, get this, japanese people say the "R" sound like an "L"! Isn't that hilarious?!" which got tiring after the second time, then the third time it showed up.
The opening joke of Bill being the tall guy in the elevator was funny, and the Loger Moore thing was truthful and showed how hard it was to be an outsider in Tokyo, but the Lip My Stocking scene was painful and could have been skipped.
posted by mathowie at 8:58 AM on January 27, 2004
The opening joke of Bill being the tall guy in the elevator was funny, and the Loger Moore thing was truthful and showed how hard it was to be an outsider in Tokyo, but the Lip My Stocking scene was painful and could have been skipped.
posted by mathowie at 8:58 AM on January 27, 2004
Take the cinematography, music, goodwill toward Bill Murray, the opening shot of yer one's arse away from Lost In Translation ignore that fact that some Japaneese are small and some have difficulty with english and what is left??????????? WHAT?
posted by kenaman at 8:58 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by kenaman at 8:58 AM on January 27, 2004
Think LOTR will clean up for the trilogy as much as for the last part IMO. Got to say the Razzies look a whole lot more fun. A couple of years ago who'd have thought the Wachowskis would get Razzie nominations?
I just hope Master and Commander gets something as it made me want to go fight Napoleon in a funny hat.
posted by ciderwoman at 9:00 AM on January 27, 2004
I just hope Master and Commander gets something as it made me want to go fight Napoleon in a funny hat.
posted by ciderwoman at 9:00 AM on January 27, 2004
Ufez: Actually it was nominated in the last academy awards for foreign language film. It didn't win.
Shit, I remember that now. So how common is it for the same movie to be nominated in two separate years? I know foreign films often have different release dates in different countries, so is it a "released in Brazil in time for the 2003 awards, released in the US in time for the '04" kind of thing?
posted by Ufez Jones at 9:03 AM on January 27, 2004
Shit, I remember that now. So how common is it for the same movie to be nominated in two separate years? I know foreign films often have different release dates in different countries, so is it a "released in Brazil in time for the 2003 awards, released in the US in time for the '04" kind of thing?
posted by Ufez Jones at 9:03 AM on January 27, 2004
machaus / PenDevil: I'm assuming that you didn't read the assessment / review that I linked. Try imaging a film that focused on black people and made fun of their frizzy hair, thick lips, strange accents, etc. and ignored any other aspect of their characters - somehow, I don't think that it'd get an Oscar nomination and you'd have no trouble identifying it as racist, so why is it different in this case?
posted by daveg at 9:03 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by daveg at 9:03 AM on January 27, 2004
Wasn't LIT also kinda shot specifically from a foreigner's perspective, and not the most aware foreigner at that?
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Aside from Mr. Murray, it's gonna be all Rings. (I liked 21 Grams best this year, but I could see it being paced too slow for the Academy. Yes, the editing was exquisite, and Del Toro, Watts and Penn all acted their asses off in it, and it's awesome they've all been nominated for something, but I know too many people who were bored by it.)
And I'm speechless. The 3rd Matrix movie didn't get a nomination for Worst Picture. What are these people smoking? That thing was startlingly awful.
posted by chicobangs at 9:04 AM on January 27, 2004
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Aside from Mr. Murray, it's gonna be all Rings. (I liked 21 Grams best this year, but I could see it being paced too slow for the Academy. Yes, the editing was exquisite, and Del Toro, Watts and Penn all acted their asses off in it, and it's awesome they've all been nominated for something, but I know too many people who were bored by it.)
And I'm speechless. The 3rd Matrix movie didn't get a nomination for Worst Picture. What are these people smoking? That thing was startlingly awful.
posted by chicobangs at 9:04 AM on January 27, 2004
I just realized that like half of these movies I wanted to go see, but couldn't convince anyone to go with me. I think that if House of Sand and Fog had just had a short scene where Ben Kingsley says "Lock and load!" with a shotgun slung over his shoulder, they could have put that in the trailer and I wouldn't have had a problem finding company.
posted by Hildago at 9:11 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by Hildago at 9:11 AM on January 27, 2004
What would Scarlett Johansen been nomimated for? Best Supporting Blank Stare?
Lost in Translation was flat, uneventful, and uninspiring. You take Murray out of the picture and you're left with nothing.
IMHO!
posted by xmutex at 9:22 AM on January 27, 2004
Lost in Translation was flat, uneventful, and uninspiring. You take Murray out of the picture and you're left with nothing.
IMHO!
posted by xmutex at 9:22 AM on January 27, 2004
so why is it different in this case?
Uh, because these aren't real people, they are actors.
Try imaging a film that focused on black people and made fun of their frizzy hair, thick lips, strange accents, etc.
...and I'd be able to differentiate a character from a sentiment. Are you denying that people trade in base stereotypes in the real world?
posted by machaus at 9:27 AM on January 27, 2004
Uh, because these aren't real people, they are actors.
Try imaging a film that focused on black people and made fun of their frizzy hair, thick lips, strange accents, etc.
...and I'd be able to differentiate a character from a sentiment. Are you denying that people trade in base stereotypes in the real world?
posted by machaus at 9:27 AM on January 27, 2004
It's a slight flick. Playing accents for laughs is cheap, but it's not racist. Imagine how stupid English speakers must sound trying to speak Japanese, not that many try. Just a fact of life.
Some of the Japanese characters come across just fine, and Murray connects when it comes to the music. If anything, this is a critique of insular Westerners who just spend most of the time in the hotels and barely venture into the local culture. The female character's one attempt to do so is kind of a failure. The Americans in the movie are pathetic, shallow and uptight compared to their hosts. The biggest stereotype in this movie is the stereotype of Americans as idiots who cannot appreciate a forieign culture. It's an unfair stereotype, actually, though I imagine many people, particularly celebrities in the bubble, live it.
It certainly wasn't best picture.
posted by Slagman at 9:32 AM on January 27, 2004
Some of the Japanese characters come across just fine, and Murray connects when it comes to the music. If anything, this is a critique of insular Westerners who just spend most of the time in the hotels and barely venture into the local culture. The female character's one attempt to do so is kind of a failure. The Americans in the movie are pathetic, shallow and uptight compared to their hosts. The biggest stereotype in this movie is the stereotype of Americans as idiots who cannot appreciate a forieign culture. It's an unfair stereotype, actually, though I imagine many people, particularly celebrities in the bubble, live it.
It certainly wasn't best picture.
posted by Slagman at 9:32 AM on January 27, 2004
Yeah, the Oscars, ha! Pretty funny!
Oop, wait, this is a serious discussion?
*backs slowly out the kitchen entrance;
falls over red velvet rope, spills
champagne on Tom Cruise; secretly
congratulates self*
posted by Shane at 9:36 AM on January 27, 2004
Oop, wait, this is a serious discussion?
*backs slowly out the kitchen entrance;
falls over red velvet rope, spills
champagne on Tom Cruise; secretly
congratulates self*
posted by Shane at 9:36 AM on January 27, 2004
I loved Lost in Translation. Yes, at a couple of points I squirmed due to the overuse of Japanese cliche (especially the lip my stocking bit.) I'm surprised, though, that nobody here seems to have looked at it as anything other than an intended silly comedy. I thought it was a great bittersweet story about these two people who were isolated and alone in a strange (to them) country and in their own lives. I thought it was Bill Murray's best performance, too. The sadness to his humor was really touching. There wasn't much plot, but that's because it isn't really a plot-driven movie. It's more like a short story which nails a certain mood with the least amount of extraneous details.
posted by callmejay at 9:40 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by callmejay at 9:40 AM on January 27, 2004
Did the actress add the "lip my stocking" bit in herself, or was it included in the script? Did she just say it that way?
I thought the bizarre thing about that scene, regardless, was that she was acting out some sort of rape fantasy scenario, which throughly confused Bill Murray's character, who was already jet lagged. He just wanted to go to bed. The scene was supposed to be disorienting and uncomfortable, I thought, as well as slightly nervous-laughter inducing.
I went to see the movie (the second time) with a Japanese person, by the way. She liked it, tought it nicely atypical of American movies. Her favorite of the year is still "Pirates of the Carribean," though. (I'd agree only to the extent that if neither Murray nor Depp gets Best Actor due to some bias against comedy, I'll be a little miffed.)
By the way, the movie prominently featured Japanese surfers. There's a stereotype for you. And it makes fun of the American lounge singer, the American actress, the hip-hop talking photographer-husband, etc., etc.
posted by raysmj at 9:49 AM on January 27, 2004
I thought the bizarre thing about that scene, regardless, was that she was acting out some sort of rape fantasy scenario, which throughly confused Bill Murray's character, who was already jet lagged. He just wanted to go to bed. The scene was supposed to be disorienting and uncomfortable, I thought, as well as slightly nervous-laughter inducing.
I went to see the movie (the second time) with a Japanese person, by the way. She liked it, tought it nicely atypical of American movies. Her favorite of the year is still "Pirates of the Carribean," though. (I'd agree only to the extent that if neither Murray nor Depp gets Best Actor due to some bias against comedy, I'll be a little miffed.)
By the way, the movie prominently featured Japanese surfers. There's a stereotype for you. And it makes fun of the American lounge singer, the American actress, the hip-hop talking photographer-husband, etc., etc.
posted by raysmj at 9:49 AM on January 27, 2004
Imagine how stupid English speakers must sound trying to speak Japanese.
Japanese don't think Westerners speaking Japanese sound stupid. They have their own racist stereotypes. They think we sound angry and scary.
posted by dydecker at 9:50 AM on January 27, 2004
Japanese don't think Westerners speaking Japanese sound stupid. They have their own racist stereotypes. They think we sound angry and scary.
posted by dydecker at 9:50 AM on January 27, 2004
Thanks for the Lost in Translation review link, daveg. I felt exactly the same way, and it's good to see that perspective articulated so well.
This year's nominees show what a pathetic year in pop cinema we had. Fortunately, independent alternatives are waxing.
posted by squirrel at 9:54 AM on January 27, 2004
This year's nominees show what a pathetic year in pop cinema we had. Fortunately, independent alternatives are waxing.
posted by squirrel at 9:54 AM on January 27, 2004
Another afterthought: Anyone who has even a trace of regional American accent can tell you that people from outside their region or city will make fun of them or ask them to repeat stuff, or find certain colloquialisms cute or endearing. Southerners are more than accustomed to this, but southerners do the same to Midwesterners and northern people, etc., etc. It's the way of the world. Why wouldn't Bob and Charlotte have thought they were being really clever by noting, in inside-joke fashion, about the use of r's and l's? They were certainly not portrayed as the most self-aware or enlightened people around, regardless.
posted by raysmj at 10:01 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by raysmj at 10:01 AM on January 27, 2004
Guardian on Lost in Translation: There is no scene where the Japanese are afforded a shred of dignity. The viewer is sledgehammered into laughing at these small, yellow people and their funny ways, desperately aping the western lifestyle without knowledge of its real meaning... The Japanese are one-dimensional and dehumanised in the movie, serving as an exotic background for Bob and Charlotte's story, like dirty wallpaper in a cheap hotel.
And to compound that insult, the story per se was lame.
posted by squirrel at 10:06 AM on January 27, 2004
And to compound that insult, the story per se was lame.
posted by squirrel at 10:06 AM on January 27, 2004
Is Russell Crowe that fucking magical that he literally turns everything he touches to gold?
I had the misfortune of catching about 30 minutes of The Quick and the Dead last night (I was tired and the remote was far away) so I can say unequivocally, no.
posted by Cyrano at 10:08 AM on January 27, 2004
I had the misfortune of catching about 30 minutes of The Quick and the Dead last night (I was tired and the remote was far away) so I can say unequivocally, no.
posted by Cyrano at 10:08 AM on January 27, 2004
This year's nominees show what a pathetic year in pop cinema we had.
Actually, I thought this year's nominees were something of a breath of fresh air. (Remember, we're dealing with the people who brought us a night of virtually nothing but awards for Titanic.) The acting nominations for In America, Whale Rider, and even Naomi Watts for 21 Grams were certainly unexpected, and the Director nod for City of God is simply brilliant. Heck, they even nominated The Barbarian Invasions for both Best Foreign Language Film and Best Original Screenplay, which shows an understanding of foreign film that I think is pretty new. Okay, yes, there is some definite junk on the list, but all in all I'm fairly impressed with the wide range of films.
(Shameless self-promotion: once again this year I'm holding an Oscar Pool Contest just for the heck of it. Everyone is welcome to enter!)
posted by jess at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
Actually, I thought this year's nominees were something of a breath of fresh air. (Remember, we're dealing with the people who brought us a night of virtually nothing but awards for Titanic.) The acting nominations for In America, Whale Rider, and even Naomi Watts for 21 Grams were certainly unexpected, and the Director nod for City of God is simply brilliant. Heck, they even nominated The Barbarian Invasions for both Best Foreign Language Film and Best Original Screenplay, which shows an understanding of foreign film that I think is pretty new. Okay, yes, there is some definite junk on the list, but all in all I'm fairly impressed with the wide range of films.
(Shameless self-promotion: once again this year I'm holding an Oscar Pool Contest just for the heck of it. Everyone is welcome to enter!)
posted by jess at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
squirrel: I read the linked Guardian article. I don't need it repeated to me, nor does anyone else here. Thanks.
posted by raysmj at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by raysmj at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
And it makes fun of the American lounge singer, the American actress, the hip-hop talking photographer-husband, etc., etc.
True. I thought the two characters were great parodies of Cameron Diaz (her lines sounded exactly like everytime I've heard Cammy Diaz speak her mind) and Spike Jonze (I'm not try to be cool, but I knew him way back when he was a photographer dork for a bmx magazine and he's exactly like Giovani's portrayal.
posted by mathowie at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
True. I thought the two characters were great parodies of Cameron Diaz (her lines sounded exactly like everytime I've heard Cammy Diaz speak her mind) and Spike Jonze (I'm not try to be cool, but I knew him way back when he was a photographer dork for a bmx magazine and he's exactly like Giovani's portrayal.
posted by mathowie at 10:11 AM on January 27, 2004
Hey, are these the biggest bunch of racist nominations ever or what? I think the Guardian is running out of ideas.
Though it is true enough, sadly. And Jackson's orcs are the kiwi whiteboy nightmare of the Mongrel Mob ever.
posted by dydecker at 10:27 AM on January 27, 2004
Though it is true enough, sadly. And Jackson's orcs are the kiwi whiteboy nightmare of the Mongrel Mob ever.
posted by dydecker at 10:27 AM on January 27, 2004
You're right, jess: there were some surprises, if you view the whole thing in Titanic context. And my apologies to raysmj--I had intended to paste the excerpt text into the first post, a la y2karl.
posted by squirrel at 10:29 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by squirrel at 10:29 AM on January 27, 2004
With apologies to raysmj for quoting from the Guardian link about Lost in Translation, I must say there's an acute case of not being able to see the forest for the trees going on in that review. Kiku Day writes:
The Japanese are one-dimensional and dehumanised in the movie, serving as an exotic background for Bob and Charlotte's story
Sounds about right. These are deeply alienated people - their own spouses seem one-dimensional and dehumanized to them - and so compound that with the full-sensory assault of an extremely unfamiliar culture, and of course they're not exactly behaving like engaged amateur cultural anthropologists.
The conclusion to draw from this, though, is not that the film is racist. Much closer to the mark is what chicobangs said:
Wasn't LIT also kinda shot specifically from a foreigner's perspective, and not the most aware foreigner at that?
The movie's not condoning Bob and Charlotte's indifference to and occasional mockery of their surroundings, it's just depicting these actions as honestly as possible. And even these characters aren't really racist so much as too completely exhausted to muster any mental energy at all to put toward figuring out what's happening around them. (Charlotte can handle the five-star hotel's flower-arranging seminar, for example, not because it's "traditional" - as Day's screed would have it - but because it requires very little effort.)
Say what you want about its merits as a film - I thought it was fantastic - but dismissing it as racist is like characterizing Seabiscuit as an apologia for animal cruelty because the jockeys whip the horses all the way through.
posted by gompa at 10:32 AM on January 27, 2004
The Japanese are one-dimensional and dehumanised in the movie, serving as an exotic background for Bob and Charlotte's story
Sounds about right. These are deeply alienated people - their own spouses seem one-dimensional and dehumanized to them - and so compound that with the full-sensory assault of an extremely unfamiliar culture, and of course they're not exactly behaving like engaged amateur cultural anthropologists.
The conclusion to draw from this, though, is not that the film is racist. Much closer to the mark is what chicobangs said:
Wasn't LIT also kinda shot specifically from a foreigner's perspective, and not the most aware foreigner at that?
The movie's not condoning Bob and Charlotte's indifference to and occasional mockery of their surroundings, it's just depicting these actions as honestly as possible. And even these characters aren't really racist so much as too completely exhausted to muster any mental energy at all to put toward figuring out what's happening around them. (Charlotte can handle the five-star hotel's flower-arranging seminar, for example, not because it's "traditional" - as Day's screed would have it - but because it requires very little effort.)
Say what you want about its merits as a film - I thought it was fantastic - but dismissing it as racist is like characterizing Seabiscuit as an apologia for animal cruelty because the jockeys whip the horses all the way through.
posted by gompa at 10:32 AM on January 27, 2004
I was very happy that Keisha Castle-Hughes was nominated for Whale Rider. It's nice to see that this movie wasn't overlooked.
posted by Tenuki at 10:33 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by Tenuki at 10:33 AM on January 27, 2004
I encourage Lost in Translation haters to name some movies they think are more deserving. It's like it's the Howard Dean of the oscars or something; why are we all talking about it?
(On preview, I agree with gompa 100%.)
posted by evinrude at 10:35 AM on January 27, 2004
(On preview, I agree with gompa 100%.)
posted by evinrude at 10:35 AM on January 27, 2004
i still don't understand why the lord of the rings trilogy gets nominated for every type of award every year one of the films comes out. it was one nine hour movie cut into 3 parts. it was not three separate brilliant efforts on the part of the director cast and crew. (not that i thought they were brilliant anyway)
posted by centrs at 10:42 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by centrs at 10:42 AM on January 27, 2004
You make a good argument for the forest-for-the-trees angle, gompa. I'll see it again (my SO insists on seeing it, despite my flailings) and take your perspective into consideration. I think it comes down to a leap of faith, though: do I trust that the film does the work to establish its racist caricatures as ironic commentary on the American characters' perspectives? As for now, I don't have that faith in Sofia Coppola.
BTW, I don't think I'm the kind of person who sees racism under every rock. I don't think LotR was racist per se, as dydecker broaches, but I see its subtextual polarized Good-Evil messages as dangerous for our culture right now. If ever America needed an alternative to essentialist, polarizing xenophobia with religious delusion and a haste to violence we need it now.
posted by squirrel at 11:00 AM on January 27, 2004
BTW, I don't think I'm the kind of person who sees racism under every rock. I don't think LotR was racist per se, as dydecker broaches, but I see its subtextual polarized Good-Evil messages as dangerous for our culture right now. If ever America needed an alternative to essentialist, polarizing xenophobia with religious delusion and a haste to violence we need it now.
posted by squirrel at 11:00 AM on January 27, 2004
I encourage Lost in Translation haters to name some movies they think are more deserving.
21 Grams. more deserving in the Best Picture category, for sure. Inarritu is more deserving than young Ms. Coppola.
The Fog Of War. It'll become a classic American piece of filmaking, like The Thin Blue Line. Americans should be very proud of Errol Morris. also, I don't see why a documentary couldn't compete in the Best Picture field.
and that's just 2 movies more deserving than LIT, off the top of my head. there's probably more.
as I said, I didn't hate it -- I just think Sofia's overrated, right now, that's all. it's a pretty -- but slight -- mood piece about suffering jet lag in Tokyo. I'd simply revoke the two big nominations it got (Picture and Director), and I'd add at least two technical nominations (Photography and Sound). I also have doubts about the film merits in the Best Screenplay category.
Murray, on the other hand, clearly deserves the nomination. he also deserves to lose against Penn.
posted by matteo at 11:06 AM on January 27, 2004
21 Grams. more deserving in the Best Picture category, for sure. Inarritu is more deserving than young Ms. Coppola.
The Fog Of War. It'll become a classic American piece of filmaking, like The Thin Blue Line. Americans should be very proud of Errol Morris. also, I don't see why a documentary couldn't compete in the Best Picture field.
and that's just 2 movies more deserving than LIT, off the top of my head. there's probably more.
as I said, I didn't hate it -- I just think Sofia's overrated, right now, that's all. it's a pretty -- but slight -- mood piece about suffering jet lag in Tokyo. I'd simply revoke the two big nominations it got (Picture and Director), and I'd add at least two technical nominations (Photography and Sound). I also have doubts about the film merits in the Best Screenplay category.
Murray, on the other hand, clearly deserves the nomination. he also deserves to lose against Penn.
posted by matteo at 11:06 AM on January 27, 2004
I thought the two characters were great parodies of Cameron Diaz (her lines sounded exactly like everytime I've heard Cammy Diaz speak her mind) and Spike Jonze (I'm not try to be cool, but I knew him way back when he was a photographer dork for a bmx magazine and he's exactly like Giovani's portrayal.
that's interesting, especially as Spike Jonze is her (Coppola's) husband. or did they get divorced recently? well, interesting in either case. hmmmm. . .
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 11:19 AM on January 27, 2004
that's interesting, especially as Spike Jonze is her (Coppola's) husband. or did they get divorced recently? well, interesting in either case. hmmmm. . .
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 11:19 AM on January 27, 2004
If ever America needed an alternative to essentialist, polarizing xenophobia with religious delusion and a haste to violence we need it now.
Sure. But it wasn't Peter Jackson's job to predict that several years ago when he first began production. (Hell, it's not his job to do that now.)
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on January 27, 2004
Sure. But it wasn't Peter Jackson's job to predict that several years ago when he first began production. (Hell, it's not his job to do that now.)
posted by scody at 11:21 AM on January 27, 2004
i gotta agree with the nay-sayers on Lost in Translation. decent cinematography, a great premise, and an extremely funny leading man were all wasted.
i honestly didn't laugh once, though i was ready and willing. i thought the dialogue was terrible, when they even bothered to write it. nobody really says anything at all, and the only character close to funny is Bob's wife, who is only present via phone and fax.
grade: C (about as good as Big Fish). i see it as similar to another admirable failure: Punch-Drunk Love. both of those films would have been better at 45 minutes to an hour, tops.
i have *no* idea why it was so popular.
and Johnny Depp was better in Once Upon a Time in Mexico.
on preview: I encourage Lost in Translation haters to name some movies they think are more deserving.
Winged Migration
21 Grams
American Splendor
i didn't see a whole lot of popular movies this year. looking at the nominees, i understand why.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:35 AM on January 27, 2004
i honestly didn't laugh once, though i was ready and willing. i thought the dialogue was terrible, when they even bothered to write it. nobody really says anything at all, and the only character close to funny is Bob's wife, who is only present via phone and fax.
grade: C (about as good as Big Fish). i see it as similar to another admirable failure: Punch-Drunk Love. both of those films would have been better at 45 minutes to an hour, tops.
i have *no* idea why it was so popular.
and Johnny Depp was better in Once Upon a Time in Mexico.
on preview: I encourage Lost in Translation haters to name some movies they think are more deserving.
Winged Migration
21 Grams
American Splendor
i didn't see a whole lot of popular movies this year. looking at the nominees, i understand why.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:35 AM on January 27, 2004
The Station Agent was a goodie too. Patricia Clarkson won a nod for another movie, though. Didn't see that one here.
posted by raysmj at 11:47 AM on January 27, 2004
posted by raysmj at 11:47 AM on January 27, 2004
I just want to add a standard disclaimer that the academy awards are a popularity contest voted on by a number of 50+ year old Hollywood types. It vexes me that there are people who actually think that the "best" awards conferred by the academy are somehow an objective standard of quality. They are chosen in much the same way your high school yearbook's superlatives were determined.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:00 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:00 PM on January 27, 2004
_sirmissalot__: that's interesting, especially as Spike Jonze is her (Coppola's) husband. or did they get divorced recently? well, interesting in either case. hmmmm. . .
you must have missed it. har har.
re: LOTR and racism, i think the real issue is bigger than that. K.A. Dilday describes it well (despite a too-long intro) in this piece: Tolkien and the new medievalism
over the holidays, i had the misfortune of hearing a Rush Limbaugh rant about how "Lord of the Rings shows us the way." there is no such thing as relativism--only simple good and evil, and evil must be destroyed."
i can understand the argument, and it's pretty scary. looking back, i realize that i had problems with the books all along (and not just b/c of the lame songs).
why is Sauron evil, and why do the Orcs (and dark men) follow him? much is missing from the story.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:11 PM on January 27, 2004
you must have missed it. har har.
re: LOTR and racism, i think the real issue is bigger than that. K.A. Dilday describes it well (despite a too-long intro) in this piece: Tolkien and the new medievalism
over the holidays, i had the misfortune of hearing a Rush Limbaugh rant about how "Lord of the Rings shows us the way." there is no such thing as relativism--only simple good and evil, and evil must be destroyed."
i can understand the argument, and it's pretty scary. looking back, i realize that i had problems with the books all along (and not just b/c of the lame songs).
why is Sauron evil, and why do the Orcs (and dark men) follow him? much is missing from the story.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:11 PM on January 27, 2004
another well-reasoned opinion on LOTR politics (sorry for the semi-derail).
The psyche of our elites is essentially one endless loop of Lord of the Rings, with themselves starring as Gandalf (the wise one who must convince everyone else of the need for the Crusade). Their worldview, which in the American context I believe arose from the righteous fanaticism of New England Puritanism, focuses on a continuing series of Saurons. Southerners, Spaniards, Serbians, Muslims, etc., have each, in turn, served as the evil straw man against which the elites can release the grapes of wrath and swing their terrible swift sword.
Those who oppose their plans are either isolationist hobbits, cowardly human villagers, or Saruman-like turncoats.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:20 PM on January 27, 2004
The psyche of our elites is essentially one endless loop of Lord of the Rings, with themselves starring as Gandalf (the wise one who must convince everyone else of the need for the Crusade). Their worldview, which in the American context I believe arose from the righteous fanaticism of New England Puritanism, focuses on a continuing series of Saurons. Southerners, Spaniards, Serbians, Muslims, etc., have each, in turn, served as the evil straw man against which the elites can release the grapes of wrath and swing their terrible swift sword.
Those who oppose their plans are either isolationist hobbits, cowardly human villagers, or Saruman-like turncoats.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:20 PM on January 27, 2004
mrgrimm, why do you hate Middle-earth so much?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:26 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:26 PM on January 27, 2004
make you're predictions here: Predict the Winners! Once you make your predictions, join the group entitled metafilter so we can compete.
posted by rorycberger at 12:54 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by rorycberger at 12:54 PM on January 27, 2004
I don't know if these would have been eligible, but it would have been nice to have seen these somewhere in the noms:
Lilya 4-Ever
Love & Diane
Man on the Train
posted by gluechunk at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2004
Lilya 4-Ever
Love & Diane
Man on the Train
posted by gluechunk at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2004
Oh god, I forgot about American Splendor. Shit! That should have gotten numerous nods, the least of which is best actor for Paul Giamatti.
Shit, this is as bad as Hedwig and the Angry Inch getting snubbed for best actor a couple years ago.
posted by mathowie at 1:38 PM on January 27, 2004
Shit, this is as bad as Hedwig and the Angry Inch getting snubbed for best actor a couple years ago.
posted by mathowie at 1:38 PM on January 27, 2004
i honestly didn't laugh once, though i was ready and willing.
Strange -- it never, ever occurred to me that LIT was supposed to be a comedy. It wasn't until it turned up in the 'comedy or musical' category at the Golden Globes that it even occurred to me that it was 'supposed' to be a comedy, and even now, with it having won, I still don't think it is. While its certainly also not a drama in the Gandhi or Passage To India sense of drama, it seems to me that its just a story about these two people -- sometimes things happen that might make the characters laugh, or might make the audience laugh, but that's not the point of the film.
posted by anastasiav at 1:41 PM on January 27, 2004
Strange -- it never, ever occurred to me that LIT was supposed to be a comedy. It wasn't until it turned up in the 'comedy or musical' category at the Golden Globes that it even occurred to me that it was 'supposed' to be a comedy, and even now, with it having won, I still don't think it is. While its certainly also not a drama in the Gandhi or Passage To India sense of drama, it seems to me that its just a story about these two people -- sometimes things happen that might make the characters laugh, or might make the audience laugh, but that's not the point of the film.
posted by anastasiav at 1:41 PM on January 27, 2004
mrgrimm: Winged Migration was the best movie I saw last year, in fact one of the best ever. It's also the only video I've ever bought. It is surprising it wasn't nominated for anything - it would certainly qualify at least for technical awards. Perhaps its official release date of 2001 disqualified it?
posted by TimeFactor at 2:05 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by TimeFactor at 2:05 PM on January 27, 2004
Don't care about everything else -- Ken Watanabe got a nomination for Best Supporting Actor, and that's enough for me.
(Especially since I had this strange niggling fear that Jack White would be stunt nominated for Cold Mountain. But that might just be because the Guardian constantly shoots their load at the sheer mention of The White Stripes...)
posted by Katemonkey at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2004
(Especially since I had this strange niggling fear that Jack White would be stunt nominated for Cold Mountain. But that might just be because the Guardian constantly shoots their load at the sheer mention of The White Stripes...)
posted by Katemonkey at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2004
what is left??????????? WHAT?
Well, there are plenty of websites that deal with the phenomenon of famous actors who shill for product in foreign countries (especially Japan) when they wouldn't be seen dead doing the same in their own countries.
I'm not saying that this entirely offsets the 'Lip My Stocking' stuff, which was straight out of a 70s sitcom -- it's stretching it a bit to say that it's forgiveable because it's meant to be showing an alienated perspective -- but you can also say that it explores stereotyping from both sides, given the way that Murray's character is bundled into an ill-fitting dinner jacket, in front of a fake study, to sip his 'Suntory' on camera. The Japanese advertisers have clichéd expectations of the foreigners they co-opt, too.
posted by riviera at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2004
Well, there are plenty of websites that deal with the phenomenon of famous actors who shill for product in foreign countries (especially Japan) when they wouldn't be seen dead doing the same in their own countries.
I'm not saying that this entirely offsets the 'Lip My Stocking' stuff, which was straight out of a 70s sitcom -- it's stretching it a bit to say that it's forgiveable because it's meant to be showing an alienated perspective -- but you can also say that it explores stereotyping from both sides, given the way that Murray's character is bundled into an ill-fitting dinner jacket, in front of a fake study, to sip his 'Suntory' on camera. The Japanese advertisers have clichéd expectations of the foreigners they co-opt, too.
posted by riviera at 2:54 PM on January 27, 2004
What I want to know is,
WHERE IS HANS ZIMMER?
The Last Samurai soundtrack was far and away the best soundtrack of the year.
As for LiT... I liked it, some parts were awful, and it sure doesn't deserve that many nominations.
posted by azazello at 4:13 PM on January 27, 2004
WHERE IS HANS ZIMMER?
The Last Samurai soundtrack was far and away the best soundtrack of the year.
As for LiT... I liked it, some parts were awful, and it sure doesn't deserve that many nominations.
posted by azazello at 4:13 PM on January 27, 2004
Erm, Winged Migration was nominated last year. The directors were standing about when Michael Moore said some stuff.
posted by feelinglistless at 4:58 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by feelinglistless at 4:58 PM on January 27, 2004
Erm, yeah, it even says so right on the DVD's box. I need to start paying more attention.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:05 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by TimeFactor at 7:05 PM on January 27, 2004
why is Sauron evil, and why do the Orcs (and dark men) follow him? much is missing from the story.
You need to read the Silmarillion to get more of the story. Tolkien created a vast world with a history spanning from the beginning of the world until the time of LotR (although he never really finished), and a lot of what happens in LotR is more significant once one has read the Silm which is basically a history book of Middle Earth, the elves in particular.
posted by bargle at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2004
You need to read the Silmarillion to get more of the story. Tolkien created a vast world with a history spanning from the beginning of the world until the time of LotR (although he never really finished), and a lot of what happens in LotR is more significant once one has read the Silm which is basically a history book of Middle Earth, the elves in particular.
posted by bargle at 8:41 PM on January 27, 2004
what's the deal with Russell Crowe movies? Why are they always nominated for Best Picture/Director, sometimes the actor statue for Crowe, and then ABSOULTEY NOTHING ELSE?
Absolutely nothing else . . . except makeup, art direction, costumes, cinematography, editing, sound, sound editing and visual effects. What are you talking about?
Should be fun to see T-Bone Burnett and Elvis Costello perform.
posted by Daze at 9:05 PM on January 27, 2004
Absolutely nothing else . . . except makeup, art direction, costumes, cinematography, editing, sound, sound editing and visual effects. What are you talking about?
Should be fun to see T-Bone Burnett and Elvis Costello perform.
posted by Daze at 9:05 PM on January 27, 2004
Blah blah blah ... academy awards.... blah blah blah
So why do people feel like the things they enjoy should be vindicated by an awards show?
posted by Eekacat at 9:49 PM on January 27, 2004
So why do people feel like the things they enjoy should be vindicated by an awards show?
posted by Eekacat at 9:49 PM on January 27, 2004
Christ almighty can some of you shut up with the why-do-people-like-the-Oscars comments when if you read the thread it's primarily a discussion of film and anyway, we get it.
posted by xmutex at 10:35 PM on January 27, 2004
posted by xmutex at 10:35 PM on January 27, 2004
but you can also say that it explores stereotyping from both sides, given the way that Murray's character is bundled into an ill-fitting dinner jacket, in front of a fake study, to sip his 'Suntory' on camera.
Right, so we get to see two sides of the American characters: the stereotype and the more nuanced rendering. But for the Japanese characters, we get only the stereotype. You see the difference, riviera? That's like saying the Iraq war was well-balanced because both sides had guns.
And, eekacat, people feel like the things they enjoy should be vindicated by an awards show partly because those types of films that get awards get duplicated in the future. That's why these award shows fill so many with joy and dread. Also, what xmutex said.
posted by squirrel at 11:44 PM on January 27, 2004
Right, so we get to see two sides of the American characters: the stereotype and the more nuanced rendering. But for the Japanese characters, we get only the stereotype. You see the difference, riviera? That's like saying the Iraq war was well-balanced because both sides had guns.
And, eekacat, people feel like the things they enjoy should be vindicated by an awards show partly because those types of films that get awards get duplicated in the future. That's why these award shows fill so many with joy and dread. Also, what xmutex said.
posted by squirrel at 11:44 PM on January 27, 2004
Lost in translation... racist... stereotype...
As an outsider in Korea (whose inhabitants are just like the Japanese since both are Asians) I really related to the sense of dislocation and the feeling of of having passed through the looking glass. In fact, I would suggest that the movie isn't even about Japan or its people. Like Alice's experiences in Wonderland (the things she sees are illusion based on reality, unless I'm misremembering), what we see is just the perceptions of the main characters.
PS I didn't want to do this but I think there are enough idiots here that I have to point out that my parenthetical comment is sarcasm.
posted by Octaviuz at 12:49 AM on January 28, 2004
As an outsider in Korea (whose inhabitants are just like the Japanese since both are Asians) I really related to the sense of dislocation and the feeling of of having passed through the looking glass. In fact, I would suggest that the movie isn't even about Japan or its people. Like Alice's experiences in Wonderland (the things she sees are illusion based on reality, unless I'm misremembering), what we see is just the perceptions of the main characters.
PS I didn't want to do this but I think there are enough idiots here that I have to point out that my parenthetical comment is sarcasm.
posted by Octaviuz at 12:49 AM on January 28, 2004
I know nobody is reading this thread anymore, and I haven't seen Lost in Translation (but it does sound like every scene is filtered through the eyes of the main characters, is that so hard to figure out?), but "lip my stocking" just sounds silly because I don't think a strong L sound is particularly common in Japan. An L sound may sound more like an R from a Japanese mouth, but the opposite is not usually true.
posted by SiW at 9:10 AM on January 28, 2004
posted by SiW at 9:10 AM on January 28, 2004
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posted by ColdChef at 8:09 AM on January 27, 2004