Jodie Dallas LIVES!
May 11, 2004 11:06 AM Subscribe
If you're in New York City or LA between now and June 27th, the Museum of Television and Radio is presenting "Not That There's Anything Wrong With That --The History of Gay and Lesbian Images on Television" (via the Queer as Folk section of Showtime's site) (Anyone else remember Robert Reed playing a transsexual on Medical Center?)
I find it interesting that Buffy the Vampire Slayer isn't on their list of shows since, I believe, they had the first female-female kiss on network television...
Sadly, it wasn't. But seeing Alyson Hannigan play tonsil hockey was a major improvement, at least for us straight guy viewers.
posted by jonmc at 11:25 AM on May 11, 2004
Sadly, it wasn't. But seeing Alyson Hannigan play tonsil hockey was a major improvement, at least for us straight guy viewers.
posted by jonmc at 11:25 AM on May 11, 2004
tittergrrl, there was a female-female kiss on LA Law long before Buffy hit the scene, though they never did much with that plotline.
Anyone know the first male-male kiss on primetime? Google sez it's a toss up between Dawson's Creek and Will and Grace. But, heck Joey and Ross (never Chandler, hmmmmmm) did some small amount of kissing between them on Friends.
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:25 AM on May 11, 2004
Anyone know the first male-male kiss on primetime? Google sez it's a toss up between Dawson's Creek and Will and Grace. But, heck Joey and Ross (never Chandler, hmmmmmm) did some small amount of kissing between them on Friends.
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:25 AM on May 11, 2004
Anyone know the first male-male kiss on primetime?
Probably in some Mafia subplot of a cop show.
No offense, wolfdaddy, or any other of the gayfolk out there, but I've found that while watching two women kiss can be quite beautiful, watching two guys kiss just looks...well, stupid. I'm not repulsed or anything it just looks dumb. I've asked plenty of straight men and women this question and they've all said more or less the same thing. I'm not saying that this is right or that gay people shouldn't kiss or anything, but just suggesting that might be the reason for the lack of stubble-brushing on the tube: not wanting to turn off the still predominantly het audience.
posted by jonmc at 11:34 AM on May 11, 2004
Probably in some Mafia subplot of a cop show.
No offense, wolfdaddy, or any other of the gayfolk out there, but I've found that while watching two women kiss can be quite beautiful, watching two guys kiss just looks...well, stupid. I'm not repulsed or anything it just looks dumb. I've asked plenty of straight men and women this question and they've all said more or less the same thing. I'm not saying that this is right or that gay people shouldn't kiss or anything, but just suggesting that might be the reason for the lack of stubble-brushing on the tube: not wanting to turn off the still predominantly het audience.
posted by jonmc at 11:34 AM on May 11, 2004
You must be joking! I'd pay large sums to see any two of the Fab Five make out. But especially Kyan and Jai. Mmm. *cough* Excuse me, I have to go now.
posted by rdc at 12:00 PM on May 11, 2004
posted by rdc at 12:00 PM on May 11, 2004
No offense taken, jonmc, though I daresay that you would probably find your enjoyment, on a visceral level, in watching, say, Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom kissing to be quite different and distinct from watching, say, Dennis Franz and Jason Alexander.
What's interesting to me is that (my) (so-called) real-life more often has someone who looks like Brad kissing someone who looks like Dennis, and to me that's far more interesting and beautiful than anything the media has thus far portrayed.
Also, while writing this response, I went and did a google image search for both "ugly lesbian" and "ugly gay male"/"ugly homosexual" to show that we ain't all pretty and you wouldn't want to watch a good number of us kiss, regardless of gender. All three phrases turned up nada, zip, zilch.
QED: all us queers ARE prettier than all you hets! Deal! ~chuckle~
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:45 PM on May 11, 2004
What's interesting to me is that (my) (so-called) real-life more often has someone who looks like Brad kissing someone who looks like Dennis, and to me that's far more interesting and beautiful than anything the media has thus far portrayed.
Also, while writing this response, I went and did a google image search for both "ugly lesbian" and "ugly gay male"/"ugly homosexual" to show that we ain't all pretty and you wouldn't want to watch a good number of us kiss, regardless of gender. All three phrases turned up nada, zip, zilch.
QED: all us queers ARE prettier than all you hets! Deal! ~chuckle~
posted by WolfDaddy at 1:45 PM on May 11, 2004
What's interesting to me is that (my) (so-called) real-life more often has someone who looks like Brad kissing someone who looks like Dennis, and to me that's far more interesting and beautiful than anything the media has thus far portrayed.
Well, that makes a weird kinda sense, Brad's more pretty than handsome and Franz, while not conventionally good looking, exudes a hyper-masculine badassery that many people find attractive. So the two would complement eachother, kinda.
QED: all us queers ARE prettier than all you hets! Deal! ~chuckle~
Actually,if hanging out in gay bars a time or two has taught me anything it's that gay men have lower standards. ~chuckle~ BUt this has more to do with both participants being male than with gayness.
posted by jonmc at 1:59 PM on May 11, 2004
Well, that makes a weird kinda sense, Brad's more pretty than handsome and Franz, while not conventionally good looking, exudes a hyper-masculine badassery that many people find attractive. So the two would complement eachother, kinda.
QED: all us queers ARE prettier than all you hets! Deal! ~chuckle~
Actually,if hanging out in gay bars a time or two has taught me anything it's that gay men have lower standards. ~chuckle~ BUt this has more to do with both participants being male than with gayness.
posted by jonmc at 1:59 PM on May 11, 2004
I would be much more interested if it didn't mean i'd have to continually travel to new york city every couple of days.
Ideally, this would be online, but maybe they have trouble getting permission to show the clips that way.
(As a side note, the description reminded me of this documentary, which I haven't seen yet.)
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 3:23 PM on May 11, 2004
Ideally, this would be online, but maybe they have trouble getting permission to show the clips that way.
(As a side note, the description reminded me of this documentary, which I haven't seen yet.)
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 3:23 PM on May 11, 2004
- I believe the first male-male kiss attempt was on Melrose Place, but they chickened out at the last minute and cut to some weird ass back shot.
- Not only do I remember Robert Reed as a transsexual, (The drama! The enormous quantities of Vaseline on the lens after his/her surgery!), but it was in fact the first show I had ever been explicited banned from watching during my childhood.
John Kenneth Fisher, The Celluliod Closet was pretty good, the most memorable quote for me being Susan Sarandon describing the, uh, climax of "Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid" as "they can't whip out their dicks, so they whip out their guns".
I remember the Melrose Place cheese-out very well, ltracey. I knew one of the writers on the show, and they agonized over it getting cut. Studio politics--FOX being demure?!--was the ultimate factor. Then, ten-odd years later, the late, oh so very lamented Firefly had boy whores!! Woot!
has more to do with both participants being male than with gayness
Yes, the difference between a straight male and a bisexual one is usually inebriation. At least the first time. *runs*
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:43 PM on May 11, 2004
I remember the Melrose Place cheese-out very well, ltracey. I knew one of the writers on the show, and they agonized over it getting cut. Studio politics--FOX being demure?!--was the ultimate factor. Then, ten-odd years later, the late, oh so very lamented Firefly had boy whores!! Woot!
has more to do with both participants being male than with gayness
Yes, the difference between a straight male and a bisexual one is usually inebriation. At least the first time. *runs*
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:43 PM on May 11, 2004
wolfdaddy, for the record, I've been approached by gay men more often than I've been approached by straight women. I was flatterred of course, but I walked away wondering a) what I was doing to jam the gaydar and b) why it didn't work on the ladies. Then it occured to me, gay guys approach finding men the way I approached finding women: cast a wide net and hold on to whatever the hell you reel in. In short, gay guys think like guys.
posted by jonmc at 6:59 PM on May 11, 2004
posted by jonmc at 6:59 PM on May 11, 2004
jonmc, in my experience, many gay men find the truly gay-friendly straight man such a blessed relief that wires get crossed and things can become almost unbearably erotic for those types. You're not doing anything to jam the gaydar other than being guilty by association. I find it rare for a gay man to press a truly unwanted suit toward a straight man. But it sounds like you know all this so I'll quit beating Mr. Ed here.
However, if I ever hear that a lady's gaydar has gone off about you, expect an invitation over to my place for a six pack.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:24 PM on May 11, 2004
However, if I ever hear that a lady's gaydar has gone off about you, expect an invitation over to my place for a six pack.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:24 PM on May 11, 2004
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posted by tittergrrl at 11:19 AM on May 11, 2004