Gorilla no think of clever title
August 9, 2004 4:28 AM Subscribe
Koko goes to the dentist
About a month ago, Koko, a 300-plus-pound ape who became famous for mastering more than 1,000 signs, began telling her handlers... she was in pain. They quickly constructed a pain chart, offering Koko a scale from one to 10. When Koko started pointing to nine or 10 too often, a dental appointment was made. (There's a rather funny development at the very bottom of the story)
About a month ago, Koko, a 300-plus-pound ape who became famous for mastering more than 1,000 signs, began telling her handlers... she was in pain. They quickly constructed a pain chart, offering Koko a scale from one to 10. When Koko started pointing to nine or 10 too often, a dental appointment was made. (There's a rather funny development at the very bottom of the story)
Well, she did have a tooth extracted, so presumably it was the source of her mouth pain. I know the teeth I recently had to have pulled hurt like a motherless goat.
Moonbird, is the business card thing the "funny development?"
posted by Dreama at 5:01 AM on August 9, 2004
Moonbird, is the business card thing the "funny development?"
posted by Dreama at 5:01 AM on August 9, 2004
They crowded around her, and Koko, who plays favorites, asked one woman wearing red to come closer. The woman handed her a business card, which Koko promptly ate.
That chimp's alright. High Five!
posted by Stuart_R at 5:49 AM on August 9, 2004
That chimp's alright. High Five!
posted by Stuart_R at 5:49 AM on August 9, 2004
Mmmmm...edible business cards....mine go great with either salsa verde or some diced red onion and capers.
posted by alumshubby at 5:55 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by alumshubby at 5:55 AM on August 9, 2004
I'm pulling a Koko at the next conference I attend.
But only with business cards that are handed to me by women in red.
Laaaady in red
posted by Dagobert at 5:56 AM on August 9, 2004
But only with business cards that are handed to me by women in red.
Laaaady in red
posted by Dagobert at 5:56 AM on August 9, 2004
That chimp's alright.
A big prize for the first person to point out that a gorilla isn't a chimp.
*oh, whoops.*
posted by norm at 7:24 AM on August 9, 2004
A big prize for the first person to point out that a gorilla isn't a chimp.
*oh, whoops.*
posted by norm at 7:24 AM on August 9, 2004
Aside from being a widely reported news story, which I will ignore, a big problem with this story is that I've only found one version of it (the wire story carried in several places), nothing mentioned at the Koko website, and, more to the point, no information on whether Koko's indications of pain in her mouth were validated. The article makes it sounds as if they were not.
I know. It seems like this one of those "human" interest stories that's not supposed to actually report on what it initially teases with. Are we being reported down to? They could at least give us more details on her tooth.
posted by scalz at 7:49 AM on August 9, 2004
I know. It seems like this one of those "human" interest stories that's not supposed to actually report on what it initially teases with. Are we being reported down to? They could at least give us more details on her tooth.
posted by scalz at 7:49 AM on August 9, 2004
It's a funny little story. About a gorilla who can "talk". And her "trip to the dentist." Either accept that it's a funny little story about a gorilla who can "talk" and her "trip to the dentist" and let it go at that, or shut the hell up about it, EB. Jesus Christ on a lamppost you people can be the most pedantic, humorless bunch of whiners on the planet...
posted by JollyWanker at 8:04 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by JollyWanker at 8:04 AM on August 9, 2004
If we could talk to the animals, just imagine it, chatting with a chimp in chimpanzee! Imagine talking with a tiger, chatting with a cheetah, what a neat achievement that would be! If we could talk to the animals, learn their languages... Maybe take an animal degree. We'd study elephant and eagle, buffalo and beagle, alligator, guinea pig, and flea.
We would converse in polar bear and python, and we could curse in fluent kangaroo. If people asked us, "Can you speak in rhinoceros?" We'd say, "Of courserous! Can't you?" If we could talk to the animals, learn their languages, think of all the things we could discuss. If we could walk with the animals, talk with the animals, grunt and squeak and squawk with the animals, and they could squeak and squawk and speak and talk to us!
posted by crunchland at 8:26 AM on August 9, 2004
We would converse in polar bear and python, and we could curse in fluent kangaroo. If people asked us, "Can you speak in rhinoceros?" We'd say, "Of courserous! Can't you?" If we could talk to the animals, learn their languages, think of all the things we could discuss. If we could walk with the animals, talk with the animals, grunt and squeak and squawk with the animals, and they could squeak and squawk and speak and talk to us!
posted by crunchland at 8:26 AM on August 9, 2004
Okay, then.
I'm trying to think of another instance where a non-human has asked for human medical help. You don't need to know sign language to do it, but I don't know if I've ever heard of it before. Am I forgetting?
Also, what crunchland sang.
posted by chicobangs at 8:29 AM on August 9, 2004
I'm trying to think of another instance where a non-human has asked for human medical help. You don't need to know sign language to do it, but I don't know if I've ever heard of it before. Am I forgetting?
Also, what crunchland sang.
posted by chicobangs at 8:29 AM on August 9, 2004
When my cat feels ill he uses sign language to throw up on the rug!
posted by Peter H at 9:03 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by Peter H at 9:03 AM on August 9, 2004
Why has Koko not had a full medical checkup in 20 years, is all I can think of.
posted by archimago at 9:27 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by archimago at 9:27 AM on August 9, 2004
EBFilter: Bah, humbug.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:27 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 9:27 AM on August 9, 2004
Peter H, funny, my dog does the same thing although she will do her best to sign her illness outside on the lawn instead of on the carpet.
And when she's happy, her sign is a wagging tail. Its pretty cool. I heard cats purr. Does Koko purr?
On Preview: fff, amen.
posted by fenriq at 9:31 AM on August 9, 2004
And when she's happy, her sign is a wagging tail. Its pretty cool. I heard cats purr. Does Koko purr?
On Preview: fff, amen.
posted by fenriq at 9:31 AM on August 9, 2004
Just because they "appear" intelligent doesn't mean I'm gonna stop eating them.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:32 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:32 AM on August 9, 2004
You eat gorillas?
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:55 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by InfidelZombie at 9:55 AM on August 9, 2004
Aside from being a widely reported news story, which I will ignore,
You didn't ignore it. You just made a comment about it but didn't expand on it.
a big problem with this story is that I've only found one version of it (the wire story carried in several places), nothing mentioned at the Koko website,
You have to be using some subtle form of self-satire here, right? Clearly you wouldn't expect multiple news agencies to do a write up on this..
and, more to the point, no information on whether Koko's indications of pain in her mouth were validated. The article makes it sounds as if they were not.
They took a tooth out and she's not longer in pain. News stories to "quirky" news have always been accepted here EB. This is one battle I think you'll find very little support in fighting, but I've been wrong before.
-----
Thanks for the link moonbird. I thought it was cute ;)
posted by The God Complex at 10:13 AM on August 9, 2004
You didn't ignore it. You just made a comment about it but didn't expand on it.
a big problem with this story is that I've only found one version of it (the wire story carried in several places), nothing mentioned at the Koko website,
You have to be using some subtle form of self-satire here, right? Clearly you wouldn't expect multiple news agencies to do a write up on this..
and, more to the point, no information on whether Koko's indications of pain in her mouth were validated. The article makes it sounds as if they were not.
They took a tooth out and she's not longer in pain. News stories to "quirky" news have always been accepted here EB. This is one battle I think you'll find very little support in fighting, but I've been wrong before.
-----
Thanks for the link moonbird. I thought it was cute ;)
posted by The God Complex at 10:13 AM on August 9, 2004
I agree with TGC, and thank Moonbird as well. Geez people. It's Monday. Relax.
posted by yoga at 10:17 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by yoga at 10:17 AM on August 9, 2004
20 years between checkups is a long time. Maybe Koko doesn't like the doctors. That's understandable, and rather civilized, actually.
Somebody wanna grab Koko a Mefi account when signups go live again?
(Thanks to this story, I've had "Tommy Gets His Tonsils Out" by the Replacements in my head all day. Thanks, moonbird!)
posted by chicobangs at 10:37 AM on August 9, 2004
Somebody wanna grab Koko a Mefi account when signups go live again?
(Thanks to this story, I've had "Tommy Gets His Tonsils Out" by the Replacements in my head all day. Thanks, moonbird!)
posted by chicobangs at 10:37 AM on August 9, 2004
My present cat has on more than one occasion, through a combination of body language and vocalization, managed to communicate a desire for medical assistance.
When in pain, he forgoes his normal feistiness and tamely endures what I dish out if it has worked in the past; for example, he easily tolerates eardrops and peroxide on boo-boos, (occasionally even presenting an overlooked injury to my attention by manipulating it right under my hand, in the same way he'd present a particular itch to be scratched), but he is a bit hazy on the necessity for, or perhaps the efficacy of, pills.
He's the only pet I've had who seems to grasp the cause and effect thing so clearly (but he's certainly not the only one to have "asked for help" when in pain); I've wondered if it dates back from his adoption of us. He was a festering adolescent and the peroxide may have made an impression on him as the source of practically instantaneous relief. It all seems a bit abstract of a cat, but stranger things have happened around here.
posted by cookie-k at 10:54 AM on August 9, 2004
When in pain, he forgoes his normal feistiness and tamely endures what I dish out if it has worked in the past; for example, he easily tolerates eardrops and peroxide on boo-boos, (occasionally even presenting an overlooked injury to my attention by manipulating it right under my hand, in the same way he'd present a particular itch to be scratched), but he is a bit hazy on the necessity for, or perhaps the efficacy of, pills.
He's the only pet I've had who seems to grasp the cause and effect thing so clearly (but he's certainly not the only one to have "asked for help" when in pain); I've wondered if it dates back from his adoption of us. He was a festering adolescent and the peroxide may have made an impression on him as the source of practically instantaneous relief. It all seems a bit abstract of a cat, but stranger things have happened around here.
posted by cookie-k at 10:54 AM on August 9, 2004
I'm trying to think of another instance where a non-human has asked for human medical help
My bride's computer told us its hard drive wasn't feeling well, but I just bet you carbon-chauvinists won't accept that as an example.
See my vest, see my vest, made of real gorilla chest...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:15 AM on August 9, 2004
My bride's computer told us its hard drive wasn't feeling well, but I just bet you carbon-chauvinists won't accept that as an example.
See my vest, see my vest, made of real gorilla chest...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:15 AM on August 9, 2004
nothing mentioned at the Koko website,
Koko's a little busy to update her blog right now. It's not that easy for her to get to a computer.
posted by Miles Long at 11:38 AM on August 9, 2004
Koko's a little busy to update her blog right now. It's not that easy for her to get to a computer.
posted by Miles Long at 11:38 AM on August 9, 2004
archimago: are you kidding? Do you know how much these doctors charge these days? :)
posted by kaemaril at 11:42 AM on August 9, 2004
posted by kaemaril at 11:42 AM on August 9, 2004
cookie-k, right on. As I mentioned at my site about this amazing ape...er, gorilla: my cat, who has the intelligence of a cabbage (a smart cabbage, but still), can tell me when she's in pain, too -- scratching incessantly at her ear and occasionally meowing to indicate that she has ear-mites, for instance. Or mewing while trying to pee, indicating that she has a bladder infection.
And if Koko is so smart, and able to sign so many words, shouldn't she have just been able to sign the words for "mouth" and "hurt?"
And wait a minute, this is the first medical exam this gorilla has had in TWENTY YEARS? Sheesh, you'd think that her caregivers/owners/Robin Williams would have bothered to give her a checkup at some point during the last two decades.
posted by davidmsc at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2004
And if Koko is so smart, and able to sign so many words, shouldn't she have just been able to sign the words for "mouth" and "hurt?"
And wait a minute, this is the first medical exam this gorilla has had in TWENTY YEARS? Sheesh, you'd think that her caregivers/owners/Robin Williams would have bothered to give her a checkup at some point during the last two decades.
posted by davidmsc at 1:03 PM on August 9, 2004
Also, what crunchland sang.
[ahem]
A rooster says Good Morning
With a "Cock-a-doodle-doo" - Good Morning!
A horse's neigh is just his way
Of saying "How are you".
A lion growls "Hello"
And owls ask "Why" and "Where" and "Who".
May I suggest you get undressed
And show them your wazoo....
posted by jonmc at 1:11 PM on August 9, 2004
[ahem]
A rooster says Good Morning
With a "Cock-a-doodle-doo" - Good Morning!
A horse's neigh is just his way
Of saying "How are you".
A lion growls "Hello"
And owls ask "Why" and "Where" and "Who".
May I suggest you get undressed
And show them your wazoo....
posted by jonmc at 1:11 PM on August 9, 2004
GrinchFilter!
posted by five fresh fish at 1:11 PM on August 9, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 1:11 PM on August 9, 2004
You know, those of us who have those wonders of technology called "television sets" have actually seen some coverage of this. It was actually quite sweet, and a nice break from the endless war, politics, and men-on-trial-because-their-wives-disappeared-and-wound-up-floating-in-the-ocean.
I'm kind of missing the logic of Ethereal Bligh's comment; EB seems to be contending both that this is "widely reported" and "only has one source". In fact, there are a few sources that expand on the original AP report out there, though I hardly think this qualifies for UbiquitousFilter (also known as Duh!Filter).
Those who wonder "why she hadn't had a full medical exam before now" haven't ever tried to give a pelvic to a conscious gorilla, I'll bet. It's not that she never had a checkup, it's that they took advantage of her being anesthetized to do an in-depth exam that just wouldn't be possible on a conscious gorilla.
And, yes, she did sign "mouth" "hurt", but it took her human handlers a while to figure out what she was getting at (gorillas are pretty susceptible to what humans would call "canker sores", for example).
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:24 PM on August 9, 2004
I'm kind of missing the logic of Ethereal Bligh's comment; EB seems to be contending both that this is "widely reported" and "only has one source". In fact, there are a few sources that expand on the original AP report out there, though I hardly think this qualifies for UbiquitousFilter (also known as Duh!Filter).
Those who wonder "why she hadn't had a full medical exam before now" haven't ever tried to give a pelvic to a conscious gorilla, I'll bet. It's not that she never had a checkup, it's that they took advantage of her being anesthetized to do an in-depth exam that just wouldn't be possible on a conscious gorilla.
And, yes, she did sign "mouth" "hurt", but it took her human handlers a while to figure out what she was getting at (gorillas are pretty susceptible to what humans would call "canker sores", for example).
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:24 PM on August 9, 2004
Jeez, let's all hope Koko doesn't accept 'paid for' links at koko.com
< /smartassness>
posted by apocalypse miaow at 1:28 PM on August 9, 2004
< /smartassness>
posted by apocalypse miaow at 1:28 PM on August 9, 2004
A bigger question is whether she ever "translates" for her non-signing companion. Only a scientist would ever bother to question whether an animal can communicate its own needs and feelings to its custodian, we custodians just accept that they do; but can Koko understand that the custodian might not realize what the other gorilla needs?
posted by cookie-k at 2:21 PM on August 9, 2004
posted by cookie-k at 2:21 PM on August 9, 2004
They say it's her first full medical examination in 20 years. I'm sure she's had other, more superficial, ones in the interim. But this time, since they were putting her under general anesthesia (which is a big deal), they took advantage of it to get multiple specialists involved and check out everything.
posted by Zed_Lopez at 3:31 PM on August 9, 2004
posted by Zed_Lopez at 3:31 PM on August 9, 2004
Thanks to this story, I've had Bonzo Goes to Bitburg by the Ramones in my head all evening.
posted by faceonmars at 11:19 PM on August 9, 2004
posted by faceonmars at 11:19 PM on August 9, 2004
I hope they interview Koko about her feelings on Fay Wray's passing.
posted by papercake at 7:15 AM on August 10, 2004
posted by papercake at 7:15 AM on August 10, 2004
As I mentioned at my site about this amazing ape...er, gorilla
A big prize for the first person to mention that gorillas *are* apes.
(/smartass)
posted by norm at 8:34 AM on August 10, 2004
A big prize for the first person to mention that gorillas *are* apes.
(/smartass)
posted by norm at 8:34 AM on August 10, 2004
One other, different rebuke to EB: I was on vacation, off the grid, when this story appeared. Thanks to moonbird, I got to read it today. I'm glad.
posted by soyjoy at 9:30 AM on August 19, 2004
posted by soyjoy at 9:30 AM on August 19, 2004
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posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:38 AM on August 9, 2004