Coldsum?

February 21, 2005 4:34 PM

In the left channel... "The Scientist" by Coldplay. In the right channel... "Pieces" by Sum41. Fight!
posted by Mwongozi (70 comments total)

there are only so many chord progressions to go around, and this is a particularly obvious one. ditto for the melodies.

i'm sure if i racked my brain i could cite several other songs you could overlay with much the same result.

for me, it just proves how uninspired and derivative both of these bands are.
posted by soi-disant at 4:44 PM on February 21, 2005

Impressive. It's far better than either - it has the hint of an original idea in it.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:45 PM on February 21, 2005

Wait...I thought Coldplay was supposed to be derivative of Radiohead. Now you're telling us that Sum 41 is derivative of Coldplay?

Why, that's almost like mid-2000s fashions recapitulating 1980s fashions which were themselves a recapitulation of 1950s fashions.

[head explodes]
posted by adamrice at 4:46 PM on February 21, 2005

Wow.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 4:47 PM on February 21, 2005

Is it OK if I hope the fight ends in fiery, painful death for both of them?
posted by jonmc at 4:47 PM on February 21, 2005

You know, that chord progression in the verse (vi - IV - I - V) is probably the most common in all pop music, so this is not very surprising or enlightening.

I would prefer it if people linked to music they liked rather than music they wanted to disparage. Let's move forward, people.
posted by speicus at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2005

Kinda sounds like the same song. Amazing! It's Nirvana vs. Killing Joke all over again! Let the speculations about the future of sampling commence! *snore*
posted by sninky-chan at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2005

I wish someone would but the corporate melody robot back in the closet.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2005

That shit is hoobastank.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 4:50 PM on February 21, 2005

tempo of the Coldplay song has been accelerated...
posted by bullitt 5 at 4:53 PM on February 21, 2005

jonmc:

yes. yes it is.

is it ok if i want to watch, with marshmallows?
posted by soi-disant at 4:55 PM on February 21, 2005

Judge... Full point.
posted by antron at 4:56 PM on February 21, 2005

More amusing was the Nickelback song in the left channel and the other Nickelback in the right channel, and how they matched up perfectly.
posted by S.C. at 5:00 PM on February 21, 2005

is it ok if i want to watch, with marshmallows?

I'll run to the kitchen for some Sta-Pufts? Should I bring some weinies, too? or do Coldplay and Sum 41 provide enough weenies already?
posted by jonmc at 5:01 PM on February 21, 2005

There was some discussion about this sort of thing on NPR a little while ago. Admist the arguments from music fans, that is, I shouldn't have to pay $20 for something drastically similar to other contemporary works and 'dude, wheres the artistic integrity?' there was one good counterpoint. That is, classical composers, including Mozart, used to 'sample' each others works all the time--many times rote. Today such shennanigans would be considered foul play and patent infrignement, but modern society calls these works 'masterpieces'. Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing sum 41 to Bach, I'm just saying that two songs can be structurally alike and still maintain a semblance of artistic credibility and respect. That is all.
posted by gagglezoomer at 5:04 PM on February 21, 2005

You people must hate the blues.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:06 PM on February 21, 2005

Did anyone ever notice that the "B" section to Radiohead's Creep and the verse to The Hollies Air That I Breath are exactly the same?

I have a degree in music. I am a musician for a living. I know that certain chord progressions are more ubiquitous than others--that is no big deal. But these particular changes are considerably less common. Additionally, the melodies are nearly identical.
posted by sourwookie at 5:09 PM on February 21, 2005

Good point speicus. Lots of cool visual artists get linked to, why not more musicians?
posted by CaptMcalister at 5:09 PM on February 21, 2005

HateTheBluesFilter.
posted by davejay at 5:11 PM on February 21, 2005

this really does make both songs better
posted by amberglow at 5:12 PM on February 21, 2005

How long before two bands like this play side-by-side on the grammys, each playing each other's song? Just asking.
posted by davejay at 5:13 PM on February 21, 2005

Ditto to what P_G and amberglow said.
posted by hopeless romantique at 5:19 PM on February 21, 2005

eustacescrubb: good (and amusing) point. but...

i think improvisation within an agreed framework, passed down through generations, and continually imbued with meanings such that it becomes (almost) oral tradition i.e. the blues, is a far cry from the unmentionables above.

also, repetition is sometimes hypnotic and fascinating, but in this case, no. just no.
posted by soi-disant at 5:23 PM on February 21, 2005

lawsuit?
posted by blendor at 5:24 PM on February 21, 2005

So it's not contradictory if I like the Coldplay song but not the Sum 41 song, right? Good.
posted by bitpart at 5:31 PM on February 21, 2005

Another song comparison for any industrial-music fans out there: compare the vocal melody of "Operating Tracks" by Front 242 with "Mindphaser" by Front Line Assembly.
posted by neckro23 at 5:33 PM on February 21, 2005

Also, the new Nine Inch Nails single sounds a little bit like The Kinks "You really got me".
posted by bobo123 at 5:35 PM on February 21, 2005

Unoriginal topic about unoriginality slammed by unoriginal posters on unoriginal soapboxes. Snooze. As a music snob myself, I like Coldplay. I think it's solid, intelligent music. I listen to what earns major label contracts these days and I thank my lucky stars that stuff like Coldplay is still heard by a broad audience. Fame does not suckage make. It's hardly surprising that the... um...more coercive forces of the music industry have churned the Sum 41 variant out. This could be done with so many other songs the list would be endless. Get over it. The Man won a long time ago.

Be thankful that you can recognise the wheat from the chaff. Feel good that you can apply your own criteria and sit, satisfied, on a Sunday afternoon with your head sandwiched in your Pavement-spewing Koss world, superior to those 13-year old Britney fans. If you ever met Lou Reed, I'm sure he'd give you a hi-5.
posted by jimmythefish at 5:37 PM on February 21, 2005

A little over three quarters of the way through, the two stereo channels blend together. Interesting...
posted by tss at 5:42 PM on February 21, 2005

Should I bring some weinies, too? or do Coldplay and Sum 41 provide enough weenies already?

you can never have enough little boys.
posted by soi-disant at 5:42 PM on February 21, 2005

Hell, if you ever met me, I'm sure I'd give you a hi-5.

Unoriginal topic about unoriginality slammed by unoriginal posters on unoriginal soapboxes. Snooze.

Oh wait... never mind.
posted by Quartermass at 5:46 PM on February 21, 2005

The Man won a long time ago.

you'd better be glad hunter died yesterday with talk like that.

If you ever met Lou Reed, I'm sure he'd give you a hi-5.

one can but hope.
posted by soi-disant at 5:50 PM on February 21, 2005

Unoriginal topic about unoriginality slammed by unoriginal posters on unoriginal soapboxes.

Wow, I'm really impressed by how unimpressed you are.
posted by jonmc at 5:50 PM on February 21, 2005

Well...I'm unimpressed by how impressed you are by that guy's, uh, unimpressedness. So...try harder next time.
posted by bitpart at 5:59 PM on February 21, 2005

How f'ed up would it be if the Sum 41 video was the forwards version of the Coldplay video? Way f'ed, I'd say.
posted by bitpart at 6:03 PM on February 21, 2005

I listened. My mind was blown.
posted by Quartermass at 6:05 PM on February 21, 2005

That MP3 still beats every song by Creed.
posted by Arch Stanton at 6:11 PM on February 21, 2005

Nirvana vs. Killing Joke

Tries to imagine Killing Joke ala the Jaz Coleman days vs. any of Nirvana's songs mashed together ... *head explodes*

This is not too bad but too mild for my tastes.
posted by squeak at 6:23 PM on February 21, 2005

Just like the Nickelback thing, these are not completely untouched tracks.
But, whatever.
posted by blacklite at 6:29 PM on February 21, 2005

That MP3 still beats every song by Creed.

*fires up "Higher" just to be an asshole. and because I do actually like it. fuck you*
posted by jonmc at 6:29 PM on February 21, 2005

there are only so many chord progressions to go around... i'm sure if i racked my brain i could cite several other songs you could overlay with much the same result.

I guess it's not quite the same result, but did anyone else ever notice when that band Live was popular that one of their songs (forget which) had a bit that sounded just like the verse of "Mexican Radio" by Wall of Voodoo? Then again, it's years since I heard either song...
posted by Hal Mumkin at 6:41 PM on February 21, 2005

*fires up "Higher" just to be an asshole. and because I do actually like it. fuck you*

*burns jonmc fanclub card*

Creed? Dude. Burn in your Christian Rock hell!!!
posted by cosmonik at 6:51 PM on February 21, 2005

Just add "Zombie" to the mix and you'll have the trifecta...
posted by greatgefilte at 6:56 PM on February 21, 2005

there are only so many chord progressions to go around...

...unless one chooses to use some, I dunno, *creativity* in one's songwriting.

There used to be a recurring feature in Guitar magazine or Guitar for the Practicing Musician (little help?) called "Riffs That Must Die". I think this one qualifies.

And, yeah, I do find blues pretty grating after about 10 minutes -- only so many consecutive measures of 12-bar I can take...

/prog-rock snob
posted by LordSludge at 7:03 PM on February 21, 2005

Creed? Dude. Burn in your Christian Rock hell!!!

Heh. I was actually thinking of writing an article on Christian Rock and examining it simply as music, without any of the ideological biases. I have a bunch of it in my mp3 bin, but it's all pre-1980.
posted by jonmc at 7:09 PM on February 21, 2005

So it's not contradictory if I like the Coldplay song but not the Sum 41 song, right? Good.

If it is, you're not the only one. I can understand people not liking Coldplay, but they're (in my opinion) better than most of the crap being put out these days. Even if they sound like they've listened to The Smiths' "Half a Person" waaaaaay too much. And The Scientist wasn't one of the better songs on A Rush of Blood to the Head; I don't know why they released it as a single. "Daylight" would've been a good choice, I think.

Also, the new Nine Inch Nails single sounds a little bit like The Kinks "You really got me".

Do you mean "The Hand That Feeds"? I think it sounds a bit more like a "post punk" song. The uptempo drums, the jangly guitar, the distinct bassline, all that. Though it's kind of hard to tell from the low-quality file that's been making the rounds. I think I like it a lot.
posted by kryptondog at 7:11 PM on February 21, 2005

you can never have enough little boys.

I prefer little girls.

And, yeah, I do find blues pretty grating after about 10 minutes -- only so many consecutive measures of 12-bar I can take...

I suggest you avoid this (though I think it's pretty cool).
posted by kenko at 7:12 PM on February 21, 2005

Sourwookie, according to this article, Radiohead acknowledge the overwhelming similarities.

"Is it true that you share the rights over the song Creep by Radiohead? If so, why is that? (Gabriela)
I don't publish The air that I breathe, I only own the writer's end, so the publisher of the song, Rondor Music, when the song Creep came out, he felt that it was a steal from The air that I breathe, and he sued Radiohead, and they agreed. Radiohead agreed that they had actually taken it from The air that I breathe, they were very honest, you know. Because they were honest they weren't sued to the point of saying "we want the whole thing". So we ended up just getting a little piece of it. (answered on April 22, 2002) "
posted by jonson at 7:12 PM on February 21, 2005

jonmc: i am stoutly atheist and have very large, sharp axes to grind when it comes to organized religion, but Christian hardcore (see: zao, training for utopia) is the best hardcore.

so yeah.
posted by lazaruslong at 7:55 PM on February 21, 2005

there are only so many chord progressions to go around...

...unless one chooses to use some, I dunno, *creativity* in one's songwriting.

this was kind of implied.

but i still say, as creative as you may be, given a 12 tet scale to work with, and looking for progressions or patterns that will still have an intended (pleasant, unpleasant, etc.) effect on the ear, you still run up against statistical inevitability...

perhaps the better composers just run into it later.
posted by soi-disant at 8:12 PM on February 21, 2005

"That MP3 still beats every song by Creed.

*fires up "Higher" just to be an asshole. and because I do actually like it. fuck you*
posted by jonmc at 8:29 PM CST on February 21 [!]"

jonmc, you just lost all music credibility you ever had. why, God, why?!
posted by Igor XA at 8:18 PM on February 21, 2005

credibility is for 19 year olds trying to impress chicks.
posted by jonmc at 8:22 PM on February 21, 2005

Hey. That's pretty good. They should always play them that way.
posted by rusty at 8:33 PM on February 21, 2005

credibility is for 19 year olds trying to impress chicks.

And Creed is forever.

I miss the days when every new band sounded like Coldplay, now they seem to sound like Maroon 5. Still better than sounding like Limp Bizkit. I guess if you go back far enough, people would complain about everything sounding like Louis Armstrong or something. perspective.
posted by Arch Stanton at 8:39 PM on February 21, 2005

kenko, that's v. cool. thanks.

you may want to check these guys out for more of that evolving yet minimal guitar/bass/drums thing.
posted by soi-disant at 9:15 PM on February 21, 2005

I'm with PG and amberglow. Another vote for two filler tracks being immeasurably improved by being slammed together. It makes for a catchy duet.

And yeah, mixing the channels together at the end is a nice touch.
posted by bright cold day at 9:55 PM on February 21, 2005

ah, memories of nickelback
posted by virga at 10:10 PM on February 21, 2005

Sourwookie, according to this article, Radiohead acknowledge the overwhelming similarities.

Well, I'll be...
posted by sourwookie at 10:27 PM on February 21, 2005

These are cut up, time-stretched etc. The chord progression is typical, but the difference is Coldplay's melody is pretty good, even slightly classic (as many britpop melodies are). Sum 41's is barely a melody.
posted by abcde at 11:46 PM on February 21, 2005

Here's one someone noticed on the At Ease message board the other day: the riff on U2's Beautiful Day is virtually the same as that of Radiohead's Kid A, though the presentation couldn't be any more different. That and the better-known fact that the "touch me" bit on Beautiful Day is copped from A-Ha's "The Sun Always Shines on TV" makes it a rather, er, interesting song overall.
posted by abcde at 11:50 PM on February 21, 2005

I find the sometimes almost-imperceptible variations of the licks played by the electric blues guys (Albert King, Buddy Guy, Luther Allison, etc. etc) strangely (for me, given my previous obsession with the 'latest thing') compelling.

Does this mean I am getting old?

Heh, couldn't tell ya, but I am curious what I'll be listening to when I'm 60+.
posted by LordSludge at 11:57 PM on February 21, 2005

the riff on U2's Beautiful Day is virtually the same as that of Radiohead's Kid A, though the presentation couldn't be any more different. That and the better-known fact that the "touch me" bit on Beautiful Day is copped from A-Ha's "The Sun Always Shines on TV" makes it a rather, er, interesting song overall.

Then there's that odd resemblance between Vertigo and the Supreme's Keep Me Hangin' On...
posted by jokeefe at 12:36 AM on February 22, 2005

*Supremes'*
posted by jokeefe at 12:37 AM on February 22, 2005

Although I've heard many like this before, it never fails to get me how much better the mixed-together song is than either of the originals.
posted by mai at 1:49 AM on February 22, 2005

There are so many better smashups out there! I don't know how to link to them, but the marvin gaye/radiohead (sexual high) is one of my favorite, and the Missy Elliot/Joy Division (love will freak us) is really good, too.
posted by ohio at 5:12 AM on February 22, 2005

I refrained from commenting on this yesterday as I was to tired to listen to it.

Impressive. It's far better than either - it has the hint of an original idea in it.

To me this sentiment goes right to the heart of the 'purpose' of mashing up: personally, I love that Coldplay song, heard it a 1,000 times, and as a result I may have grown a bit desensitised to it. Hearing it juxtaposed it with something I've never heard before (sorry, not a big Sum 41 fan) makes it sound really fresh. It's what psychologists call a 'novel stimulus'.

I've never really bought into the criterion of originality myself, unless something is obviously and directly derivative, and even then it's sometimes just a conscious hommage or wink to the composer of the earlier recording. Chord progressions (and even the elements of melody that follow from it logically) have, in my opinion, been in the Creative Commons since the first human started grunting in a proto-musical fashion.

Although I don't necessarily disagree with P_G's comment, I do find it deeply ironic: two separate artists from two separate parts of the globe at separate points in time create a song from (relative) scratch, the originality of which may be disputed, that's a given. Then some kid notices the similarity, syncs them up and cooks up a cool MP3 of the result, and we give him/her the credit for originality. I'm not disputing P_G's or amberglow's taste (I've heard it cannot be done), I just believe that this sentiment says a whole lot more about the way we've grown to consume and understand arts and culture than it says about Chris Martin's or Deryck Whibley's songwriting skills.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:16 AM on February 22, 2005

According to Amazon.com the Coldplay album came out in August of 2002 and the Sum41 came out in October 2004.

If I was in Coldplay I wouldn't be so sure Sum41 created their song from scratch.
posted by papercake at 8:54 AM on February 22, 2005

This is pretty cool... Though I prefer the Sum 41 song over the coldplay. I just hand a soft spot for minimilistic "melodies" where the chords do most of the changing (i.e. U2's numb)....

As far as this chord progression being pretty common, that is true, but the arrangement is also very similiar... in conjunction with the chorus being exactly the same as well, I'd have to hand it to Coldplay as the modern "creators" of this song.
posted by Debaser626 at 11:31 AM on February 22, 2005

re: Novel stimuli

This is most of where I think the appeal of DJ's comes from. Sure, you're playing other peoples' works, but your artistry comes in in which tracks you pick, the order, and how clever you are at mixing.

And sometimes, the more disparate the sources, the more interesting the result. Just look at all the popular "remixes" out there that are merely [song that is not remotely a dance song] + [a dance beat].

"The Grey Album" (jay-z's "the black album" mashed with the beatles' "white album") by dj dangermouse is my favorite example of this kind of thing (and probably the most famous).
posted by Lectrick at 10:36 AM on February 23, 2005

Speaking of Christian Rock and Radiohead, there's a band called Sonicflood that does a version of "Lord, I Lift Your Name on High" that steals blatantly from Airbag. You can hear the sample on iTMS, it's pretty funny.
posted by abcde at 11:27 AM on February 23, 2005