Bind. Torture. Captured?

February 26, 2005 10:39 AM

Man Arrested in Connection with BTK killings. A man named Dennis Rader has been arrested in Witchita, Kansas as a suspect in the BTK (Bind Torture Kill) killings. Police are confident that this man is indeed BTK, and have even added some new murders to those suspected to have been committed by BTK.

Previously mentioned here.
posted by Captain_Tenille (59 comments total)

The Rader Memory Hole.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2005

Is this another of those 'big media' homocide stories, or can I start submitting posts of every murder suspect caught in Atlanta/Vegas?
posted by mischief at 10:45 AM on February 26, 2005

Oooh! oOOH! Can I post murder stories from Kelowna, BC? I think there was one last week!
posted by five fresh fish at 10:48 AM on February 26, 2005

BTK was one of the great unsolved cases (and still is, I suppose, for the time being), so his arrest is newsworthy. Keep in mind most of his activity was nearly thirty years ago, and they've just now made an arrest. For that reason, this is more newsworthy than some guy who knocks over a convenience store. If they arrested Zodiac, I think that would also merit a FPP.

For what it's worth, while my dad has some family in Witchita, I've never even been to Kansas, much less Witchita itself.
posted by Captain_Tenille at 10:50 AM on February 26, 2005

Somehow I thought the suspect would be older and perhaps more near the end of his life. It seemed like all of his recent actions were kind of leading up to a deathbed confession. I wonder if he has health issues or if this is classic serial-killer vanity.
posted by geekyguy at 11:00 AM on February 26, 2005

"they've just now made an arrest" : I dunno. This still sounds more like grist for court.tv or FoxNews. Same goes for Zodiac.

For what it's worth, I was one of the staunchest defenders of newsfilter, but 'homocidal maniac of the week'? Give me more to reconsider my position.
posted by mischief at 11:04 AM on February 26, 2005

Does that mean they'll have to take him off the Hannidate list?
posted by AlexReynolds at 11:09 AM on February 26, 2005

BTK always put me in mind of a burger acronym.

Um... can you tell us brits are provincial?
posted by NinjaPirate at 11:41 AM on February 26, 2005

No, I'm pretty sure you can still date people in prison.
posted by graventy at 11:43 AM on February 26, 2005

This isn't "murder of the week", the BTK case is extremely unusual and does not seem to fit any of the "standard" serial killer profiles. The sheer volume and frequency of his contact with the media and police over the last year (increasing in recent months) combined with the fact that he disappeared for 25 years and then reappeared last year, claiming an unsolved murder from 1986, makes this a very interesting case. The forums here (which I linked to in last year's BTK thread) make for some interesting reading, there are some very knowledgeable people there. (And might I respectfully suggest you give the poster the benefit of the doubt and do a little more reading before you jump on the "let's slam the post" bandwagon?)
posted by biscotti at 11:58 AM on February 26, 2005

No. No, you might not respectfully suggest such. The very idea!
posted by five fresh fish at 12:13 PM on February 26, 2005

I'm not sure which is scarier, this BTK guy or Hannity style romance from Alex's link.
posted by casu marzu at 12:31 PM on February 26, 2005

Apparently, the suspect was the president of his Lutheran church. In response to the arrest, they've taken down their web site. Here's more coverage from The Wichita Eagle.
posted by MegoSteve at 12:56 PM on February 26, 2005

Biscotti's right; this has been an extremely odd case, and there are many sites, boards, blogs that have been covering it heavily (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, to name a few).

First of all, the fact that he had completely disappeared from sight led everyone to believe that he was dead/imprisoned/institutionalized, or at the very least had left the area. Then the sudden bizarre flurry of communications with law enforcement/media made it clear he wasn't dead. In fact, he got so mouthy, I saw one recent news story headlined "BTK Killer Won't Shut Up".

Now it turns out that he was right there in Wichita all along... Who knows what precipitated this strange behavior, after something like 20 years of silence. Also quite interesting is that it seems that his daughter went to police with suspicions her father was BTK, and the DNA sample they used for the arrest actually came from here.... All definitely fascinating stuff.
posted by taz at 1:31 PM on February 26, 2005

her
posted by taz at 1:36 PM on February 26, 2005

BTK is big time in Wichita. He was also very good at what he did. And he wrote a number of "try to find" me notes and sent totems from his kills to the police and local media.

I was born in Wichita and lived there until I joined the Army when I was 29. Many little old ladies and single women will sleep easier now that this guy is caught.

Nola Foulston (the lady clapping in the CNN picture) has been DA since the early 90's (at least) and will probably continue a fine performance of her duties with the BTK prosecution.

Of course, being Wichita; they could just turn him loose to a mob. Or sell tickets to shoot him to death with BBs at a gun show. Either way; rot in peace, BTK.
posted by buzzman at 1:39 PM on February 26, 2005

i think this guy wanted subconsciously to be caught, sending letters and such after years of silence ... either because of guilt ... or because he wanted some of the old "thrill" back of killing that he no longer felt capable of doing ...

this is worthy of an fpp
posted by pyramid termite at 1:49 PM on February 26, 2005

Lived in the area all his life, lived a couple of doors down from one of his victims, several eyewitness reports, bragged in his letters about "taking numbers down" and was a city compliance officer, had numerous DNA samples, numerous connections to Wichita State University, worked for the same company as several of his victims, believed to have military training.

So tell me why they couldn't find him in thirty years. Because he was a senior church official?

Some might say there is a strong argument here that there should be criminal immunity for all family victims who would now like to strangle certain members of law enforcement teams.
posted by DirtyCreature at 3:17 PM on February 26, 2005

Of course, being Wichita; they could just turn him loose to a mob. Or sell tickets to shoot him to death with BBs at a gun show.

Or dress him as a gynecologist, stick him in front of a women's clinic and let some other wackos shoot him. With Boeing and now BTK gone, what's left for Doo Dah, maybe Baboo?
posted by wolfey at 3:43 PM on February 26, 2005

Looking at satellite image of his address, the neighbor he killed in 1986 was only four houses up the same side of the street. The authorities didn't think that murder was a BTK because the body had been taken elsewhere and dumped. You gotta wonder.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:48 PM on February 26, 2005

Oh Alex, that was mean.
Heehee.
posted by dougunderscorenelso at 3:50 PM on February 26, 2005

From the CNN story:

"I don't even want to think that it could possibly be real," the neighbor, who gave his name as Greg, told KAKE. "This is a real normal block. I mean it's just normal families. It's quiet, it's peaceful. ... People walk their dogs, kids play on their bikes -- it's really normal. It's a pure piece of America."

So many layers... like an onion, I say!
posted by basicchannel at 3:53 PM on February 26, 2005

So tell me why they couldn't find him in thirty years.

Needle. Haystack. Things always look straightforward and you know where you should have looked after the fact.

Although I'm under the impression that he was one of the people at least distantly considered by the task force in the mid 80's (mind you, that list is probably pretty long).

It will be very interesting to hear more of the whole story once the trial is over. The impression I'm getting is that he in some way either arranged to surrender or made it extremely clear where and who he was, and the police had him under surveillance for a few days before they arrested him (the whole "routine traffic stop" sounds more like "wait until he's away from his house and then grab him"), and more than one source I've read has reported that he's been confessing since he was arrested.

The news video interview with Rader here, from 2001, with him talking about animal control issues is very creepy. A pretty strong reminder that people who are this profoundly broken can hide in plain sight so easily, he looks like a normal guy, talks like a normal guy a bit flustered by the camera, and likely was pretty normal in most respects...when he wasn't strangling people.
posted by biscotti at 4:03 PM on February 26, 2005

Needle. Haystack
You're kidding me? You don't happen to work for Wichita law enforcement do you?

More news : according to KSN, Rader worked for ADT security as an installations manager from 1975-1986 during the time of some of the murders. Wonder if the writers of The Cable Guy knew something we didn't.
posted by DirtyCreature at 4:12 PM on February 26, 2005

You're kidding me? You don't happen to work for Wichita law enforcement do you?

Heh. It's very popular to rag on law enforcement, and I suspect that this is normally because of a lack of appreciation for just how difficult it is to catch someone like this (it's much easier to think that law enforcement are bumbling idiots than it is to accept that it's extremely difficult to catch a relatively intelligent person, with at least basic knowledge of forensic procedures, who doesn't want to get caught). The I-45 killer (or killers) has killed more than 30 people, in a predictable area and pattern, over at least three decades and hasn't been caught yet (depite at least one potential victim who escaped and can describe him). Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer, killed at least the 48 women he confessed to killing (likely far more), also had an escaped potential victim eyewitness who knew where he worked (but who refused to press charges out of fear for her safety), and wasn't arrested until 2001. It's commonly accepted that law enforcement in all probability knew exactly who the Zodiac killer was, but was never able to put together enough evidence to make a solid enough case for an arrest. These cases and others, and the fact that the FBI estimates that there are between 35 and 50 serial killers currently operating in the US (and estimates from other sources are much higher) should make it obvious that real life isn't like CSI. You not only have to find your suspect out of thousands or tens of thousands of possibilities, you also have to collect enough evidence to make a good enough case to arrest and charge him, it's just not that easy.
posted by biscotti at 5:09 PM on February 26, 2005

So tell me why they couldn't find him in thirty years. Because he was a senior church official?

You've nailed it, Sherlock. They had him dead to rights, with piles of evidence against him, and a jury ready to convict him. But then they found out that he belonged to a church, and they let him go because what's a few murders between churchgoing friends -- why, they even had to interrupt him as he was confessing in order to let him go.

Given that you're such an expert on evidence, and getting suspects to give up incriminating evidence, and running investigations, and knowing how much evidence you need to secure a conviction, why don't you run along and help those bumbling morons who are trying to catch whoever's been killing prostitutes along I-45?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:09 PM on February 26, 2005

"This is a real normal block. ... it's really normal. It's a pure piece of America."

Yes, well, William Carlos Williams said it 80 years ago: "The pure products of America / go crazy".
posted by Creosote at 7:37 PM on February 26, 2005

I grew up in Wichita, my mother fit his profile to a T when he was first active. I remember the amount of fear that he generated in that city when I was a child. I also know the lead detective on that case, I know how hard he worked on it, and I know how difficult it's been over the years to track him down.

I'm just glad that he was caught finally.
posted by junyatwin at 8:06 PM on February 26, 2005

BTK is as notorious as the Zodiac Killer, or the Hillside Strangler. I only hope that they've got the right guy.

In the meantime, I'm nowhere near Kansas, but Wichita always reminds me of the Wichita Massacre, which has haunted me since I first read about it.
posted by Oriole Adams at 8:47 PM on February 26, 2005

Quick question. THe article says that the blood of 26-year-old Kerri Rader, whose father, Dennis, was arrested Friday, came back as a 90-percent DNA match to the BTK killer.

Now, I read the other day that humans share something like 95% (or was it 99%) of their DNA with chimps and still something like 90% of their DNA with mice.
So what does "90-percent DNA match" mean? That Kerri Rader shares 90 percent of her DNA with the killer? But so do you and I, or chimps and mice and tadpoles for that matter. Or that there is a 90% chance that her DNA is that of the killer? (In which case, maybe they arrested the wrong guy and should arrest her instead...)
posted by sour cream at 9:00 PM on February 26, 2005

Detective : Excuse me Sir. No doubt you've heard of the murder four houses down from here? We have reason to believe the killer lives in this general vicinity. We were just wondering if you would like to participate in a voluntary DNA test.

Rader : No. Don't believe in them. 'Gainst my religion.

Detective : (noticing his voice sounds remarkably like the 911 phone call made by BTK) Ok Sir. If you change your mind please let me know.

Raider gets background check. Served in military. Was at Wichita State at the time of Professor PJ and when the University photocopier was used. Used the local library often around that time. Worked for ADT and therefore has knowledge of phone lines and access to victim's houses. and records. Worked for same company as some of the victims. Etc etc.

Now you've got thirty years to find a way to get a DNA sample. Count them. Thirty.

Not interested in a debate. The facts speak for themselves.
posted by DirtyCreature at 9:19 PM on February 26, 2005

Antoine Carr was one of the best WSU basketball players ever, and helped to take the Shockers to many great victories.
As a native Wichita resident; I am always upset that the name "Carr" is now associated with murderers.
posted by buzzman at 9:25 PM on February 26, 2005

Detective : (noticing his voice sounds remarkably like the 911 phone call made by BTK) Ok Sir. If you change your mind please let me know.

Source, please, for the detective's inner thoughts at the time?

Now you've got thirty years to find a way to get a DNA sample. Count them. Thirty.

Never mind the fact that the technology for DNA matching didn't exist 30 years ago.

Not interested in a debate.

Why is this not surprising?
posted by scody at 11:06 PM on February 26, 2005

DirtyCreature, no doubt we'll find out whether he was ever "liked" for the BTK murders with their curious MO or the Hedge (neighbor) murder with the strikingly different MO (clearly trying to throw off the police) in due course. In retrospect it was extremely prescient of the investigating team to save a sufficient sample of his semen in 1974 and then, through the years, not lose it.

For now, again, real life is not CSI. Real forensics experts are starting to feel pressured by the TV show's facile, certain, and swift solutions. Many forensics tests take months, not the least because of ever-greater reliance on them and ever-small budgets.

In real life, any piece of evidence is suspect, and riffing off of what sour cream said, there really isn't any 100% evidence in any case, and what there is, under our adversarial system of justice, can always be challenged to create that wedge of reasonable doubt.

DNA is going to be but one part of this case. The other circumstantial evidence is very damning, but it's going to be more interesting to learn what was found at his house, given that it was gone over with a fine-tooth comb, and what exactly caused his daughter to turn informant on him. What did she find out? How long has she known? Did she wrestle with suspicions? (Actually, I bet she twigged to something regarding the package drops last year.) I'm also curious to know whether there was any connection to the other victims through, for example, his security-alarm job.

As one simple example of how difficult it can be to get a handle on serial killer cases, most experts believed that his extended silence indicated incarceration or relocation. "Profiling" is much more of an art than a science.

The case also provides a perfect example of the unreliability of witnesses. BTK had them, and not only was the police drawing unhelpful in finding him, one of the witnesses -- a 19-year-old who escaped from his bindings while his sister was being stabbed -- can't remember today whether BTK wore an orange hunting jacket, or a camouflage one.
posted by dhartung at 11:26 PM on February 26, 2005

Now you've got thirty years to find a way to get a DNA sample. Count them. Thirty

And in each and every one of those years, you still need a warrant to compel one. Maybe you really do know a lot more about the rules of evidence, what constitutes a sustainable warrantless search, and what constitutes probable cause for a warrant than DA's and judges do. But somehow I doubt it.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:33 PM on February 26, 2005

DirtyCreature: Without probable cause that will stand up in court, the cops can't compel the donation of a DNA sample. Living four doors down from the victim does not constitute probable cause. Could the cops have fabricated some minor misdemeanor and used it to get a DNA sample? Yes — and any lawyer worth his salt would get the judge to declare it inadmissable. Then, when the cops found real evidence 30+ years later, they couldn't have done shit due to that pesky 'double jeopardy' clause in the Constitution.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 11:37 PM on February 26, 2005

Could the cops have fabricated some minor misdemeanor and used it to get a DNA sample? Yes — and any lawyer worth his salt would get the judge to declare it inadmissable.

Random breath test on his drive to work perhaps? There's many good ways. Ok so now you've done your DNA test and it comes up postive. You have your man. There's no if's or maybe's at this point. Dedicate your resources to building a case. Try to exact a confession. When the evidence is strong enough, THEN you apply for your warrant for a DNA test.

Game over. End of lesson.
posted by DirtyCreature at 12:08 AM on February 27, 2005

The facts speak for themselves.

Yes, indeed they do. The fact that an arrest has been made in this case speaks volumes. You seem to think that Rader was walking around with a big flashing "HELLO OFFICER! I'M BTK!" sign on his head, that something made him stand out from all the other people who had all kinds of seemingly significant facts about them who also could have been the killer. All the people who came into contact with this guy on a regular basis didn't see (until his daughter, after all this time), what makes you think it would be so easy for anyone else, especially people who'd never even met him? It's easy now to see how the evidence adds up, now that there is a single person who has been arrested, and all the various and otherwise unconnected bits can be reverse engineered and joined together after the fact, but you seem to be unable to grasp how difficult it is to narrow a search like this down to the point where you not only have a suspect you like for the crimes, but also have enough evidence to make an arrest (and not have the case thrown out on a technicality). Do you have any idea how many thousands of tips have to be gone through, most of which are garbage, but one of which might be important? Do you have any idea how many people had to be interviewed, and by how many law enforcement officers? Do you have any idea of how difficult it can be to maintain continuity through different detectives and different agencies? Seriously, man, do some research, find out just how hard real-world detective work is, especially in a high profile case like this, find out how difficult it actually is to catch someone like this guy, the facts are not what you seem to think they are.
posted by biscotti at 12:23 AM on February 27, 2005

Sure, DirtyCreature, you've nailed it. Musta been religion. Maybe the Pope put some political pressure on the police, too? And the Dalai Lama.

Let me give you a little illumination: the facts are speaking for themselves, but what you're saying merely makes you look crazy.

Sorry to hear that you're not interested in debate...but then what are you doing posting here?

Hindsight is 20/20, and I don't believe in time travel. Apparently you do.
posted by Bugbread at 12:31 AM on February 27, 2005

what exactly caused his daughter to turn informant on him

There were some posts up at the CJ forums last year from a woman who claimed she was certain BTK was her father. She hadn't gone to the police because he was a senior figure in the church and she doubted anyone would believe her. Plus she was terrified of him.

I haven't been able to track the thread down again, and its probably just a coincidence but still, it's creeping me out.
posted by arha at 1:47 PM on February 27, 2005

arha, I remember reading those same threads a year ago. I had just learned about BTK and he was the stuff of nightmares. I read through all those threads on the forum one person was going on in on about her father with incredible details that now look spookily prescient (Dad worked for a security alarm company, tried to become a cop, was a prominent figure in church, worked for the city, etc). Of course I remember thinking that it was really very sweet and wonderful how the internet can bring together junior detectives and delusional attention whores to meet each other needs. In retrospect, I'm now creeped out as much as by my own cynicism as I was when I first learned about BTK last year.
posted by wobh at 5:04 PM on February 27, 2005

re: The first comment in the previously mentioned thread:

Is it just me, or does the the author of the crimelibrary article look just like the stereotype of a serial killer?

The author of the crimelibrary article looks just like Kid Rock to me.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 5:55 PM on February 27, 2005

This is very sad:


"We were at the police department for quite awhile doing fingerprints and questioning and everything and kept asking them, ’have you gotten ahold of the little ones?’ and finally they said ’you don’t have to worry about that, they were killed also,’" said Carmen.

"We didn’t see them. I have only fond memories of my baby brother and sister," said Charlie.


Charlie Otero, son and sibling of the quadruple murder victims in 1974, speaking after the arrest of Dennis Rader.

http://www.ksn.com/news/stories/7038116.html
posted by uncanny hengeman at 6:57 PM on February 27, 2005

"I read through all those threads on the forum one person was going on in on about her father with incredible details that now look spookily prescient (Dad worked for a security alarm company, tried to become a cop, was a prominent figure in church, worked for the city, etc)."

If all those things are true, I have a hard time seeing how it wasn't Kerri Rader who posted those things. Are you sure you remember correctly?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:32 PM on February 27, 2005

Investigators call BTK fastidious, calculating and meticulous

Why are so many people so against the idea that the cops were incompetent?

Investigators call BTK fastidious, calculating and meticulous...

If that doesn't sound like ass-covering then I don't know what does. He masturbated all over the freakin' house of at least one of the victims! When did DNA testing start?

I wouldn't be surprised if police incompetence had a lot to do with his non-arrest for 31 years.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:01 PM on February 27, 2005

He masturbated all over the freakin' house of at least one of the victims! When did DNA testing start?

The first DNA test used in a court was in 1985 (and was still prohibitively expensive). BTK did his killings between 1974 and 1986.

I'm not against the idea that the cops may have been incompetent. They might. But I have yet to see any evidence of that. I'm not saying there isn't any, just that I haven't seen it, and DirtyCreature seems more focussed on repeating the obvious glaring truth that a blind eye was turned to his killing spree because he was a church official than to, you know, pointing out any examples of incompetence.
posted by Bugbread at 8:12 PM on February 27, 2005

For what it's worth, I was one of the staunchest defenders of newsfilter, but 'homocidal maniac of the week'? Give me more to reconsider my position.

Well, for what it's worth, I've been one a critic of Newsfilter for a long time, but even I can see this story is worthy of the MeFi front page. By themselves, the media issues raised by BTK take this one out of the realm of "homicidal maniac of the week." mischief and fivefreshfish, you're just wrong, and can't have thought much about this post before reacting as you did.

uncanny hengeman: When did DNA testing start?

Long after BTK went dormant in 1979: "The forensic use of DNA began in England in about 1984...DNA testing first gained national attention in the United States after it was introduced as evidence in a 1987 Florida sexual assault case."

Say what you will about the Wichita/FBI missing clues, but *someone* handled the semen from the crime scenes well enough that it was useful years later when DNA testing was invented.
posted by mediareport at 8:14 PM on February 27, 2005

I've been one a critic

Read: "I've been a critic..."
posted by mediareport at 8:15 PM on February 27, 2005

Additional DNA stuff: the 1985 use of DNA was in England. The FBI decided to start using DNA matching technology in the United States in 1988. DNA evidence was rapidly accepted by the courts, but then issues of mismatching came up, and DNA evidence was cast into an unfavorable light until 1996 or so, when technological advances improved the reliability of DNA testing.

So, effectively, 1988 in the United States.

And, man, folks assuming DNA testing was happening in the 1970's makes you feel really old. Kinda like kids asking what kind of computer the Wright Brothers designed their first plane on.
posted by Bugbread at 8:18 PM on February 27, 2005

On postview: Huh, mediareport, our dates seem off from eachother by exactly one year...odd. I got mine from here (warning: BIG honking PDF file (91 pages (eek!)))
posted by Bugbread at 8:21 PM on February 27, 2005

"about 1984"
"first gained national attention."

Our sources aren't really inconsistent, bugbread.
posted by mediareport at 8:26 PM on February 27, 2005

the CJ forums

Sorry to flood the thread like this, but can someone link to those, please? I'm wracking my brain trying to figure out what "CJ forums" means.
posted by mediareport at 8:40 PM on February 27, 2005

Long after BTK went dormant in 1979

Why didn't they use the technology when it became available? Just coz the police (wrongly) assumed him to be dormant, that doesn't stop them from requesting and testing DNA of suspects (a list of 225 if crimelibrary.com is to be believed).

And what of the "cold case" re-investigation of 1991?

Look, I don't really want to get in a huge argument over this. I don't know jack, right? Maybe there were reasons the police didn't ask for DNA samples of suspects in 1991, even though his frozen semen was sitting in a evidence room somewhere.

In conclusion: masturbating all over a crime scene does not equal fastidious, calculating and meticulous!
posted by uncanny hengeman at 8:40 PM on February 27, 2005

CJ Forum.
posted by boaz at 8:49 PM on February 27, 2005

Uncanny, do you have any idea what kind of costs you'd be talking about for doing DNA matching on 225 DNA samples in 1988?

But, fair enough, I don't know jack either. And while I'm not too surprised that he wasn't found before 1996, when DNA sampling became cheaper and more accurate, I can definitely see the argument for saying that they should have been able to find him post '96. On the other hand, there were no killings and no police contact between 1986ish and 2004, so the police had no reason to expect that he was still alive, in-state, and out-of-prison. It's only with hindsight that we can say "This serial killer was among us the whole time, and they didn't try to catch him!". In 2003, people probably would have been saying "They're spending their time and effort on finding a killer who disappeared two decades ago instead of finding the killers who stalk our streets this very moment!" (I'm not saying you would say that, uncanny, but from my experience, a lot of the taxpayers would)

And masturbating all over a crime scene does not equal fastidious, calculating, and meticulous, but in 1979, it did not outrule them either. Albert Einstein was very intelligent. Sticking your tongue out when photographed does not equal being intelligent, but it doesn't outrule it either.

Now, if someone masturbated all over a crime scene nowadays, we wouldn't find them fastidious, calculating, or meticulous. But we're not talking about nowadays, we're talking about 1979ish.
posted by Bugbread at 9:00 PM on February 27, 2005

Thanks, boaz.
posted by Bugbread at 9:00 PM on February 27, 2005

Interesting that (as pointed out in a new CJ post) a member there hit the nail on the head in this post (" Was BTK Associated w/ Animal Control Officers?").

Of course, the board is full of pages of speculation on BTK's occupation (including census taker, military, home security - all true), but this one was unusual in the sense that it was the subject post (what we would call an FPP), as opposed to simply a comment wondering "what if" tucked inside another post.
posted by taz at 9:26 PM on February 27, 2005

Uncanny, do you have any idea what kind of costs you'd be talking about for doing DNA matching on 225 DNA samples in 1988?

No I don't. Possibly expensive enough to not use it as a tactic to try and catch a serial killer? BTW, the cold case re-investigation was started in 1991.

When did mass DNA testing start becoming an investigation tactic, as opposed to becoming cheaper? Probably not back in 1991. Maybe it's that simple? No one thought, "hey let's just test all 225 of them!"



But, fair enough, I don't know jack either. And while I'm not too surprised that he wasn't found before 1996, when DNA sampling became cheaper and more accurate, I can definitely see the argument for saying that they should have been able to find him post '96. On the other hand, there were no killings and no police contact between 1986ish and 2004, so the police had no reason to expect that he was still alive, in-state, and out-of-prison. It's only with hindsight that we can say "This serial killer was among us the whole time, and they didn't try to catch him!". In 2003, people probably would have been saying "They're spending their time and effort on finding a killer who disappeared two decades ago instead of finding the killers who stalk our streets this very moment!" (I'm not saying you would say that, uncanny, but from my experience, a lot of the taxpayers would)

Speaking of time and taxpayers' money well spent: 'We tried a hundred thousand theories," now retired Lt. Al Stewart said. "We checked house numbers, the victims' length of residency, the phases of the moon, we read books, looking for arcane connections to mythology, witchcraft and demonology."

Good grief.

And what exactly does a cold case squad do? I thought they might investigate the murders. Try and find the killer and stuff like that. Or do the detectives say, "well there's been no contact since 1986ish so let's just stop right there"?



And masturbating all over a crime scene does not equal fastidious, calculating, and meticulous, but in 1979, it did not outrule them either. Albert Einstein was very intelligent. Sticking your tongue out when photographed does not equal being intelligent, but it doesn't outrule it either.

Now, if someone masturbated all over a crime scene nowadays, we wouldn't find them fastidious, calculating, or meticulous. But we're not talking about nowadays, we're talking about 1979ish.

Sorry about my use of bolds back there. I look like a wanker, I know. But the reason I used bold is that the mathematical not equals sign doesn't work, even when it works in preview. See: ?

So I chose does not equal instead. Didn't mean anything by it - but on preview it does look a bit in-your-face.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:50 PM on February 27, 2005

Taz, that link of yours is positively freaky. I almost wanna register at that forum just so I can congratulate him for his |33+ detective skills.

Sorry, ski|1z0rz.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 10:56 PM on February 27, 2005