Teachers gone Wild

April 12, 2005 1:01 PM

Teacher gone wild. Again. While not as crazy as this, (discussed here previously) Mrs. Miller definitely needs some therapy. Perhaps these 4th graders should have had camera phones like these kids... Though at least the U.S. isn't as tolerant of teachers behavior as Moroccans. Frankly my dear, they don't give a damn!
posted by Debaser626 (48 comments total)

Well, now I don't feel so bad about surfing the net while my students are being forced read selections from "Babbitt."
posted by kozad at 1:11 PM on April 12, 2005

"In Haiti, they treat you like animals, and I will treat you the same way here," several students recalled Miller saying.

Jesus God.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 1:16 PM on April 12, 2005

I'm impressed at the level of political sophistication and clarity of argument offered by young Ronald Destine:

"When we got to her room, Mrs. Gilbert asked me what the school could do to have us change my story. I answered, nothing because I want the truth to come out! At this time, she offered free ice cream to us so we could say something else. I have a big math exam coming this month, and I would like for the principal to stop harassing my classmate and I. Please do something."

I don't know that many 4th graders but I'm wondering if he had a bit of help writing and/or editing this statement. His sentiment is right on, however.
posted by matildaben at 1:18 PM on April 12, 2005

that video effing rulez
posted by docpops at 1:28 PM on April 12, 2005

It really is good to know that we've got highly qualified and dedicated morons instructing our children on morals. I'm sure everyone of those kids will stop by in ten years or so and thank this racist bitch for demonstrating so ably how unfair the world is.

With some luck, someone will treat the assistant principal like a baby harp seal.
posted by fenriq at 1:30 PM on April 12, 2005

Some one is fired, that is for sure. It amazes me that other staff even allowed it to happen. She may be the principal, but come on, no other teacher/adult intervened and told her she was out of line?

With some luck, someone will treat the assistant principal like a baby harp seal.

With the spray paint of the bat, or both?
posted by a3matrix at 1:35 PM on April 12, 2005

When I was in college, I remember that all of my dumbest friends became teachers, because they couldn't figure out what else to do... or different majors just seemed "too hard".

It didn't give me much hope for our educational system.
posted by BobFrapples at 1:36 PM on April 12, 2005

You know Bob, there's a lot of pretty dedicated and brilliant teachers out there, though it sounds like none of them were your friends. Too bad. There are certainly plenty of dumb ones too - don't get me wrong.

It might be that if the pay (and respect) teachers at a certain age level got wasn't inversely proportional to the amount of training required to teach at that level (and the impact they're likely to make on people's lives), things would be a little different.
posted by freebird at 1:44 PM on April 12, 2005

You know, there are some really good teachers out there, but I have to agree that the majority of them are horrible.
posted by malaprohibita at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2005

"not as crazy"

I don't know, man, this seems a lot crazier...

Jesus Christ! Being held to public ridicule and have your ethnicity disparaged in front of your schoolmates. That's seriously disgusting.
posted by Kattullus at 1:45 PM on April 12, 2005

Kattullus... Yeah.. once I had posted it, I realized my miswording... Both instances are crazy, but I think the racial overtones and scope of this one (involving students who were not even part of the offense, make it a worse situation than the former.)

Though I still think having one of your students throw another out of a window is some pretty f-ed up stuff.
posted by Debaser626 at 1:54 PM on April 12, 2005

Teachers like this make me afraid for my future children. I remember one of my science teachers in high school was suspended for smashing a students head into a door. Some people just aren't cut out to deal with children.
posted by overdose at 1:57 PM on April 12, 2005

a3matrix, aw heck, let's give her the full tour, let's spray paint her (making sure to get the paint in her eyes) and then set some bloodthirsty drunk guys with big sticks on her.

I'll stop before thinking about making her into a bitch coat.
posted by fenriq at 2:03 PM on April 12, 2005

Did anything ever happen to the jackass on the video? That guy is a disgrace to his profession. I love the way the kids were punished for filming the teacher's misdeeds. That's like punishing a reporter for finding proof of a crime. What's funny is that I can easily imagine the exact same thing happening in my high school and I graduated 10 years ago.
posted by tcobretti at 2:06 PM on April 12, 2005

Huh. Somebody's got a problem with immigrants.

Bad enough schools feed kids the same stuff prisons feed inmates, but they staff their classes with the same power-hungry psychos who get hired as guards.
posted by Anonymous at 2:25 PM on April 12, 2005

OK.. here's the problem I have with this type of post..

Yes, there are bad teachers, lots of them (but, a pretty small percentage of the overall number of teachers in this world), and yes they sometimes behave in a manner which deserves that they be removed from the profession. I make no apologies for those individuals, even those who make a mistake out of fear or frustration, they should have more control than that if they wish to teach for a living.

But..I do have a problem with a post that seems to link to multiple instances of reports of this kind of behavior that doesn't seem to be leading to some sort of discussion of a particular aspect of this behavior (a "more inside" with a reason for the post would be helpful perhaps, if, in fact there WAS a reason for the post). It seems that this kind of post just intends to make teachers look bad.

I guess we all have a right to pick a profession, group, or type of person and point to instance after instance where they misbehaved (how about a link to 5 or ten reports showing that black people commit crimes, or white people, or native american people, or european people, or whatever people), I bet I could put that post together in minutes with a quick search on google news.

But...what's the point...

My wife is a teacher, she works about 80 hours a week (for which she gets paid for 40) with special needs kids in a poor neighborhood..she loves her kids, treats them with kindness and compassion... as do about 99.9 percent of the teachers I know... so...do we need to focus on the assholes of the teaching profession?

like... what's the point...

oh..maybe this is fark...
posted by HuronBob at 2:26 PM on April 12, 2005

Hey..un-necessary Fark slammin'.


But HuronBob, I agree with your point, and I feel sorry for your wife. I had lots of great teachers, and I know they are under paid and under appreciated.
posted by Sharktattoo at 2:39 PM on April 12, 2005

That is a terrible story. Is there a way to revoke a teachers licence like there is with doctors and lawyers? This case is a good argument for why there should be.
posted by raedyn at 2:42 PM on April 12, 2005

HuronBob: Right-on.

BobFrapples: It's my experience that the people who go into teaching based on the delusion that it's an easy way to make a living and free summer vacations tend to wash out after their first few years.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:44 PM on April 12, 2005

Sharktattoo... Please! Do NOT feel sorry for my wife, she loves every minute of it! She would do it for nothing (we have a deal that she can't spend any more than her salary on teaching stuff, clothes for kids that don't have any, and food for kids that are hungry.), and, she gets all the appreciation she needs from the people that count...the kids that run to hug her and the parents that call her for years after the kids have left the classroom!


But...thanks for chiming in on this!
posted by HuronBob at 2:53 PM on April 12, 2005

I think more children need forceful defenestration. Kids today kinda blow.
posted by undule at 3:02 PM on April 12, 2005

You know, I'd just like to point out that the lady who made the kids sit on the floor was an assistant principal and not a teacher. I mean, before we use this thread as an excuse to attack teachers, we should at least make sure the article is, in fact, about a teacher. Indeed, the title of this should be "School Administrator Gone Wild."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:05 PM on April 12, 2005

I remember one of my science teachers in high school was suspended for smashing a students head into a door.

I'd bet there are far more incidents of violence against teachers than by them. Unfortunately, students suck hard these days, and parents would rather blame the teachers for their "hard grading" and deluge of homework than enforce any discipline in their little animals. It's not their fault that your kid can't write a 5 paragraph essay on a book (any book).
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:19 PM on April 12, 2005

HuronBob writes "My wife is a teacher, she works about 80 hours a week (for which she gets paid for 40) with special needs kids in a poor neighborhood..she loves her kids, treats them with kindness and compassion... as do about 99.9 percent of the teachers I know... so...do we need to focus on the assholes of the teaching profession?...like... what's the point... oh...maybe this is fark..."

We focus on the assholes in order to show how badly reform is needed;
we reform the profession so your wife's dedicated work isn't lumped in with that of the lazy assholes and bullies and martinets who make the profession look bad.

Your wife won't get the respect she deserves until we've thrown the assholes out, so do her a favor and stop complaining about metafilter being fark and start complaining about the public schools being fark.
posted by orthogonality at 3:30 PM on April 12, 2005

orthogonality: Four words: part of the problem.

Reform needs to encourage bad teachers to get out of the system, and remove the roadblocks that prevent good teachers from promoting learning.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 4:17 PM on April 12, 2005

Kids today kinda blow.
students suck hard these days

Oh, suffrin jesus. When have people not thought that today's generation is a bunch of degenerates by comparison with the past? Does anyone have any concrete reason to believe this is true?

The only thing that I know has changed is that No Child Left Behind has terrorized everyone down the chain of command into turning schools into test-prep factories. Other than that, there have always been "bad" kids, "bad" teachers and bad education all over the map.
posted by argybarg at 4:18 PM on April 12, 2005

Reform needs to encourage bad teachers to get out of the system, and remove the roadblocks that prevent good teachers from promoting learning.

Implementation is the problem. No doubt "good" vs. "bad" teaching would be determined by kids' performance on standardized test scores. I can imagine more bad teaching than good being rewarded this way.
posted by argybarg at 4:20 PM on April 12, 2005

orthogonality, where did i say that my wife doesn't get any respect? Her students respect her, her student's parents respect her, and her peers respect her, and I respect her. Sorry that you missed the point of my remark. I did not state that bad teachers don't need to be called out, I stated that the post was poorly formed, bashed teachers without showing the connection between the links...

The 'reform' needed isn't about the teachers, we need to 'reform' the way our culture doesn't value kids and doesn't value education.

Now, let's do the post about all the crimes done by white people today so we can show that all white people are criminals.
posted by HuronBob at 4:29 PM on April 12, 2005

I don't know how I feel about that, orthogonality. It seems to me that the profession is in the process of being reformed, but increases in training haven't led to a true increase in quality. In other words, we might have to start appreciating teachers who do well (both with our respect and our money), before more competent people are drawn to it.

It would seem to me that mediocre potential teachers in certification programs will be held to lower standards until the competition shows up.

on preview, argybarg: I'm also a little hesitant to say that high test scores = quality teaching/learning. When colleges complain that the students aren't measuring up these days, I'm sure that the type of essay required of a 3 hour test isn't the measuring stick they're using. You can do very well on tests, and still not be prepared for college/real world applications of knowledge.
posted by hue at 4:29 PM on April 12, 2005

Wow, I actually agree with orthogonality. Journalists are have also chosen to enter a low-paying field that's important to our society, but we don't regard every Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair post as an attempt to impugn a profession of caring, underpaid people.
posted by transona5 at 4:30 PM on April 12, 2005

transona5... I agree, but, but, but, but...it is NOT the posting of news article about a bad teacher that was the problem, it was the posting of multiple links to bad teacher after bad teacher. It only led to sort of general teacher bashing instead of intelligent conversation regarding the original incident of concern.
posted by HuronBob at 4:45 PM on April 12, 2005

it is NOT the posting of news article about a bad teacher that was the problem, it was the posting of multiple links to bad teacher after bad teacher.

Well, again, the first article was about a bad administrator. When are we going to start seeing a government campaign to reform them?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:51 PM on April 12, 2005

Sorry, HuronBob, that snark wasn't really aimed at you or your comment. Ignore my derail - just the first article isn't about a teacher at all.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:53 PM on April 12, 2005

transona5 writes "Wow, I actually agree with orthogonality."

Don't worry, it's a transitory thing, and eventually the shame goes away.
posted by orthogonality at 4:53 PM on April 12, 2005

When have people not thought that today's generation is a bunch of degenerates by comparison with the past? Does anyone have any concrete reason to believe this is true?

The problem isn't that kids are necessarily worse, but that measures teachers had to correct bad behavior have been steadily cut back. This wouldn't be so bad if parents were picking up the slack, but instead they have become their children's greatest cheerleaders, blaming teachers and administration for the gradual dumbification of the student body.

Disclaimer: I used to be an English teacher at East Boston High School.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:20 PM on April 12, 2005

Seriously - the problem isn't removing BAD teachers, it's doing more to encourage GOOD teachers, especially at the youngest ages. Those teachers require the most training, make the biggest difference - and get paid the least. WTF?
posted by freebird at 6:08 PM on April 12, 2005

I think there is a pretty big difference between racial discrimination and hatred on the level of the school administrator and just a guy with anger issues.
However, in the case of the guy with anger issues, it seemed like the students were doing a kind of 'how far will he go' and
from my experience these kind of people expect to be (and usually are) bailed out by their parents.
posted by Suparnova at 6:10 PM on April 12, 2005

Oh, suffrin jesus. When have people not thought that today's generation is a bunch of degenerates by comparison with the past?

And when, generally speaking, has this observation failed to ring of truth?

I'm only half-serious, of course, but you suffering with Jesus is enough to wrangle another post outta me.
posted by undule at 6:27 PM on April 12, 2005

HuronBob: I appreciate what you're saying. Like odinsdream I had a few great teachers; they had a disproportionate influence on me and I respect them and their like all to hell. But the rest I saw as people who were not that smart and as a consequence feared and resented any challenge to their intellectual authority. I went to school at a time and in a place (60's and 70's, Canada) where my teachers weren't dealing with either large class sizes, non-English speaking students or serious behaviour problems. Nonetheless they ran their classrooms like little fiefdoms, of which they were absolute master who must be obeyed. And why not? They were measuring their intellects against 8-year olds, and coming up on top. What was I to say to my Grade 5 teacher who, upon stating that a female dog was a "bitch" responded to my question "what's a male dog called, then?" with "Oh , you're trying to smart, are you? Well it's a 'bastard' and you can go to the Principal's office." May you burn in the little corner of Hell that's reserved for the insignificant evil-doers, Mrs. Rouse.

/bitter? No, not me.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 6:31 PM on April 12, 2005

odinsdream: I guess I've just proved your point by remembering that episode 35 years later (!). Children are fragile creatures. They deserve not to be bullied, intellectually, physically, or otherwise by intellectually and emotionally crippled adults entrusted with the responsibility of educating them.

/still detect the whiff of bitterness?
posted by Turtles all the way down at 6:37 PM on April 12, 2005

Out of curiosity, Civil Disobedient, what disciplinary measures have been taken out of teacher's hands that you think they should have? (I assume you're not talking about corporal punishment.)
posted by argybarg at 7:21 PM on April 12, 2005

The biggest was the active discouragement of kicking problem kids out of class. If a kid didn't want to learn in my class, that was fine by me, but they were absolutely not going to ruin it for everyone else. Unfortunately administration would read me the riot act every time I did this ("Every child deserves an education!" -- a nice straw man that basically translated to "Don't send us your problems.")

The next option still works wonders with teenagers: humiliation in front of their peers. I had a few delinquents with barely a 5th grade reading level (in 11th and 12th grade, amazingly), so if they acted up, I'd have them read to the class. But God only knows how much trouble I'd have been in if I really decided to go off on a troublemaker. So many times I just wanted to read some of their sad excuses for writing to their peers, then ask them what kind of minimum wage job they expected to get without the simple ability to construct complete sentences?

And, of course, you can't beat any sense into them these days. So what's a teacher to do? You can't kick them out of class. And when they're in class, you can't humiliate them, you can't yell at them, and you certainly can't reason with the whatever generation. Oh, I got it: assign them more homework that they'll just refuse to do.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:37 PM on April 12, 2005

Lots of sweeping statements made here about the conditions of teaching, with no regard for the fact that, most American places, salaries and such are determined at the level of the local school board. I was blessed by one of the best, and when my niece was getting married to a teacher there, I phoned my old 6th grade teacher (wow, I had him his 2nd or 3rd year) and he assured me, teachers there are NOT underpaid.

I can not agree more with those who accept that discipline in the classroom is a major problem. Kids are worse these days, its as simple as that. Where they used to lie and dissemble, today they are insolent and demand "Whacha gonna do about, eh?"

To me, it is clear that kids have learned they have little to fear. For them, the threat of a McJob is not real, it has no meaning at all. When I was in school, there was the "board of education" to fear, but I'm not advocating for the return of corporal punishment.

Perhaps the solution is to punish the parents, in the hope that this will bring about improvements in behavior. Fine the parents, see what happens. Perhaps constant problems should result in the child being sent to a class for which his parents must pay. I'm sure there is something wrong with that idea (eg, poor parents?)

But don't let me seem too biased against the kids. There are plenty of total asses with teaching credentials, and it doesn't matter how good the school is. I've no clue how to handle that without making the whole thing a bigger problem than it is.
posted by Goofyy at 2:30 AM on April 13, 2005

Perhaps the solution is to punish the parents, in the hope that this will bring about improvements in behavior.

Well, when the parents get older and have to rely on their kids to take care of them, but the grown-up kids are barely pulling in the federal minimum, you can bet the parents are going to regret not having a high school graduate (never mind college) in the family.

I'm sure there is something wrong with that idea (eg, poor parents?)

Two things: first off, future threats of doom and gloom mean nothing to this generation of kids. They're confronted with nihilism every waking moment of their lives; they already assume they're not going to "make it" in a traditional sense, so they tend not to give a shit. They'll just win a million dollars on a TV show. Or they'll be a basketball star. Or a famous singer. Say, where's all the schools for teaching you to become a game-show winner?

The second problem is that (sadly) it's usually the kids from the poorer (what used to be called broken) homes that are the biggest fuck-ups. So much of their attitude is understandable, unfortunately there's an enormous gulf between teacher and student that cannot be crossed without resorting to teaching outside the box. Sometimes that means tough love, sometimes it means talking to them in a language they can understand (egads! swearing!).

Bring up alternative teaching methods and you get the standard ignorati retort: "If you can't find a way to reach them then you're just a bad teacher, that's all." They want us to build bridges, then they take away all our tools.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:47 AM on April 13, 2005

Kids sure are shorter these days.
posted by klangklangston at 6:13 AM on April 13, 2005

Perhaps a higher paid and more respected teacher somewhere along the line would have taught Juan Gonzalez that exclamation points don't belong in serious journalism.

Oh, it's the Daily News. Forget it.
posted by breezeway at 7:27 AM on April 13, 2005

The Daily News is written by the same guy who does Mark Trail, I tell you what!
posted by klangklangston at 8:43 AM on April 13, 2005

Kids are worse these days, its as simple as that.

Oh, well then, there you have it. Can't argue with that.
posted by argybarg at 8:48 AM on April 13, 2005