ADX Florence
April 13, 2005 11:46 AM Subscribe
During the 1990s, both the federal government and many state governments experimented with a new type of prison dedicated to maximum security prisoners, known as a "supermax." Such prisons are formally known as "Administrative Maximum" (ADX) prisons at the federal level, and the only federal ADX is in Florence, Colorado - ADX Florence. On top of confining inmates to their cells for 23 hours a day, such prisons usually feature soundproofed cells, near-total deprivation of human contact, and a routine policy of solitary confinement.
The text is from here, which isn't really related but got me searching for ADX-Florence, and lead me to the HRW site that inspired me to share.
The text is from here, which isn't really related but got me searching for ADX-Florence, and lead me to the HRW site that inspired me to share.
This thread is a chilling reminder of the horrors that are being committed this moment by guards against inmates within American prisons. Namely rape, torture, and murder.
posted by futureproof at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by futureproof at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2005
NPR's Weekend Edition had a fascinating story last Saturday about the California state supermax at Pelican Bay and the gang activity/culture that emanates from there. I highly recommend it.
posted by cali at 12:08 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by cali at 12:08 PM on April 13, 2005
A little off topic but I decided to look up an aerial pic of ADX Florence. Wonder where the minefields are.
posted by rolypolyman at 12:20 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by rolypolyman at 12:20 PM on April 13, 2005
Two things the US excels at:
1) Incarcerating people
2) Killing people
posted by nofundy at 12:23 PM on April 13, 2005
1) Incarcerating people
2) Killing people
posted by nofundy at 12:23 PM on April 13, 2005
what about breeding their own style of fascism?
posted by futureproof at 12:27 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by futureproof at 12:27 PM on April 13, 2005
nofundy, you forgot
Microcode (Software)
Movies
Music
High Speed Pizza Delivery
posted by Scoo at 12:39 PM on April 13, 2005
Microcode (Software)
Movies
Music
High Speed Pizza Delivery
posted by Scoo at 12:39 PM on April 13, 2005
"SuperMax" sounds like some sort of chain of stores from the people behind OfficeMax, easily sold to the public with such a name, needs a TM at the end for that slick feel. They'll all want a "SuperMax" in their county.
futureproof We can't call it fascism, it is impossible to spin that. It is like instant Godwin invoking, we don't want that. We want us to equal the pope and like jesus-god. We'll need to give it a marketable name, something with pizazz. How about Freedom Enforcement, Freeforcement! BAM! There we go.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:40 PM on April 13, 2005
futureproof We can't call it fascism, it is impossible to spin that. It is like instant Godwin invoking, we don't want that. We want us to equal the pope and like jesus-god. We'll need to give it a marketable name, something with pizazz. How about Freedom Enforcement, Freeforcement! BAM! There we go.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:40 PM on April 13, 2005
nofundy What about pizza on a bagel? This is something America has created to allow us to have pizza anytime.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
After the solemn reading of life in supermax, it's nice to see the smiley faced CRAIG W. HANEY at the bottom of the page.
I have to wonder about the efficacity of this kind of thing though. I played a play by mail game while I was in boot camp. One of the reasons I was so successful in that is that it occupied all of my free time. Thinking about moves, etc. etc. was the only 'fun' I had.
Similarly, running a gang from supermax seems like it would occupy all your time and would bind you to it that much more.
Obviously there are abuses and so forth, but the real issue seems to be that we need some new ideas and experimentation to find what works.
I would define 'works' as prevents recidivism, promotes rehabilitation, and deters crime, etc. as opposed to the more punative measures.
McVeigh might be a dick, but I don't care how much pain he is in, just that he won't bomb anything while he's in the joint.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
I have to wonder about the efficacity of this kind of thing though. I played a play by mail game while I was in boot camp. One of the reasons I was so successful in that is that it occupied all of my free time. Thinking about moves, etc. etc. was the only 'fun' I had.
Similarly, running a gang from supermax seems like it would occupy all your time and would bind you to it that much more.
Obviously there are abuses and so forth, but the real issue seems to be that we need some new ideas and experimentation to find what works.
I would define 'works' as prevents recidivism, promotes rehabilitation, and deters crime, etc. as opposed to the more punative measures.
McVeigh might be a dick, but I don't care how much pain he is in, just that he won't bomb anything while he's in the joint.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
Trivia (from the article):
One of the inmates at the supermax is:
CHARLES HARRELSON, 59, the father of actor Woody Harrelson, is serving two life sentences for the murder of a federal judge.
posted by milnak at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
One of the inmates at the supermax is:
CHARLES HARRELSON, 59, the father of actor Woody Harrelson, is serving two life sentences for the murder of a federal judge.
posted by milnak at 12:42 PM on April 13, 2005
nofundy What about pizza on a bagel
And funnel cake. You gotta like any country that invents the funnel cake.
posted by unreason at 12:51 PM on April 13, 2005
And funnel cake. You gotta like any country that invents the funnel cake.
posted by unreason at 12:51 PM on April 13, 2005
Geez!
OK, OK, all those things too!
But someone else has to keep the list!! :-)
posted by nofundy at 12:57 PM on April 13, 2005
OK, OK, all those things too!
But someone else has to keep the list!! :-)
posted by nofundy at 12:57 PM on April 13, 2005
Unreason- what's the difference between funnel cake and fried dough?
posted by Hactar at 1:04 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by Hactar at 1:04 PM on April 13, 2005
All I need to do now is make a funnel cake pizza. Its power and beauty will reach back through time, space, and a shower curtain to destroy the very concepts of funnel cake and pizza themselves, and it will be our new God brought unto us by nothing but its own force of will. We for one will welcome it as our new overLord, and it will eat us with glee. And ghee.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:05 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:05 PM on April 13, 2005
ROU_Xenophone Yes, but it will need a marketable name.
posted by TwelveTwo at 1:06 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by TwelveTwo at 1:06 PM on April 13, 2005
Smedleyman: McVeigh might be a dick, but I don't care how much pain he is in, just that he won't bomb anything while he's in the joint.
That's all fine and good (if not harsh) but at a minimum you should worry about what would happen if you were falsely imprisoned in one of these facilities.
posted by Mitheral at 1:19 PM on April 13, 2005
That's all fine and good (if not harsh) but at a minimum you should worry about what would happen if you were falsely imprisoned in one of these facilities.
posted by Mitheral at 1:19 PM on April 13, 2005
What about pizza on a bagel?
I lost. Dammit. I hate this game.
posted by davejay at 1:20 PM on April 13, 2005
I lost. Dammit. I hate this game.
posted by davejay at 1:20 PM on April 13, 2005
...what would happen if you were falsely imprisoned in one of these facilities.
But that never happens! At least, not to wealthy white people.
posted by davejay at 1:20 PM on April 13, 2005
But that never happens! At least, not to wealthy white people.
posted by davejay at 1:20 PM on April 13, 2005
The New Yorker published a piece on Pelican Bay Prison and the problem of racial gangs in and out of the system. I have not found this piece but I found an interview with the author who talks about conditions inside these places.
I have no clue about what is right here. Supermax prisons sound to me like a version of hell but I am at a loss to counter-propose, with this kind of population.
posted by Danf at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2005
I have no clue about what is right here. Supermax prisons sound to me like a version of hell but I am at a loss to counter-propose, with this kind of population.
posted by Danf at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2005
This thread is a chilling reminder of the horrors that are being committed this moment by guards against inmates within American prisons. Namely rape, torture, and murder.
Doesn't that describe what the inmates do to each other? Often several of them at the same time? I know, it doesn't make it better, but we're not talking about the San Quentin Country Club here. We're not even talking about the [old] Lower East Side.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 2:10 PM on April 13, 2005
Doesn't that describe what the inmates do to each other? Often several of them at the same time? I know, it doesn't make it better, but we're not talking about the San Quentin Country Club here. We're not even talking about the [old] Lower East Side.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 2:10 PM on April 13, 2005
twelvetwo: yes, you're absolutely right. lets keep working on truly marketable names. unfortunately my mind is blank.
/me passes the torch.
posted by futureproof at 3:05 PM on April 13, 2005
/me passes the torch.
posted by futureproof at 3:05 PM on April 13, 2005
A buddy of mine is a physician and supervisor of medical care in the federal prison system, including the Colorado ADX.
An interesting part of his duties is giving the State Department and White House reps daily briefings on the health status of the terrorists imprisoned there. If one of these guys suddenly takes a turn for the worse, it may have immediate political consequences abroad that would, so policy-makers are keen not to be caught flat-footed if a major "martyr" dies in U.S. custody.
posted by Mr Pointy at 3:12 PM on April 13, 2005
An interesting part of his duties is giving the State Department and White House reps daily briefings on the health status of the terrorists imprisoned there. If one of these guys suddenly takes a turn for the worse, it may have immediate political consequences abroad that would, so policy-makers are keen not to be caught flat-footed if a major "martyr" dies in U.S. custody.
posted by Mr Pointy at 3:12 PM on April 13, 2005
I just don't get this: human-rights groups say keeping someone in solitary confinement is bad. Is putting a non-violent criminal in a room of violent criminals better? Imagine some college student who got busted for selling weed to people in his dorm. If you put this guy in a room with a bunch of gang members, he wouldn't last 10 min, much less 6 months.
If I ever had to go to jail, I'd probably want solitary for my entire stay. Just give me books to read, some paper and a pen and I'll be happy.
posted by darkness at 3:44 PM on April 13, 2005
If I ever had to go to jail, I'd probably want solitary for my entire stay. Just give me books to read, some paper and a pen and I'll be happy.
posted by darkness at 3:44 PM on April 13, 2005
Yes, but it will need a marketable name.
SuperMax FunZa!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:45 PM on April 13, 2005
SuperMax FunZa!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:45 PM on April 13, 2005
"...worry about what would happen if you were falsely imprisoned in one of these facilities"
Mitheral (and davejay ):
A. FALSELY imprisoned? ME? Doubtful. (If framed I'm taking out at least a few cops)
B. WEALTHY? ME? Doubtful.
C. WORRY? ME? Doubtful. (It'd be valhalla to me)
C. 'You' meaning 'one' should? - Conceded.
I only meant I have no desire to have McVeigh suffer more than necessary for those conditions I illustrated to occur. Not that I wished to increase it or blind myself to it. Absent the possiblity of his rehabilitation or leading a productive life on the inside, I don't want him harmed, merely held.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:51 PM on April 13, 2005
Mitheral (and davejay ):
A. FALSELY imprisoned? ME? Doubtful. (If framed I'm taking out at least a few cops)
B. WEALTHY? ME? Doubtful.
C. WORRY? ME? Doubtful. (It'd be valhalla to me)
C. 'You' meaning 'one' should? - Conceded.
I only meant I have no desire to have McVeigh suffer more than necessary for those conditions I illustrated to occur. Not that I wished to increase it or blind myself to it. Absent the possiblity of his rehabilitation or leading a productive life on the inside, I don't want him harmed, merely held.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:51 PM on April 13, 2005
The Economist also has an article on supermax prisons. Of particular interest is the possibility that prisoners are being assigned there for political, rather than behavioural, reasons. To quote the article: "an empty supermax would be embarrassing for local politicians."
posted by sindark at 4:44 PM on April 13, 2005
posted by sindark at 4:44 PM on April 13, 2005
darkness: from what I remember reading, putting someone in solitary forever, as these prisons do, creates very broken people. Such inmates become either very troubled or outright insane. They lose the ability to interact with people. They often react violently to life as a matter of course for the rest of their lives.
So no one should be going to these prisons unless they have no chance of ever being released. In my mind, it is unconstitutional to hold any one else there.
posted by teece at 6:27 PM on April 13, 2005
So no one should be going to these prisons unless they have no chance of ever being released. In my mind, it is unconstitutional to hold any one else there.
posted by teece at 6:27 PM on April 13, 2005
I recall a 60-minutes piece on supermax, I think it was Pelican Bay ("The Shoe", it was called). I would sum their article thus:
They lock you up alone 'til you go insane, then they punish you for your insanity.
Further, the ones that go into these places are the ones most likely to be damaged by the experience, the ones needing the most treatment.
That being said: I was locked up at age 13. I learned the joys of solitary confinement. I can entertain myself with nothing at all (no, not even that, I was too young), but 2 torn-up styrofoam cups are lots more fun than nothing! Solitary was often a desirable means to escape the other inmates who, at best, were boring, and at worst, bullies. Sometimes I could manage books, sometimes they were taken away. Pen and paper was never allowed.
What I find totally perverted is the notion that direct governmental supervision does not produce the SAFEST environment. I'm fairly sure I've said this before on Metafilter, but I believe convicts are most likely to experience rehab if they could first be made safe. So long as the prison environment is unsafe, it necessitates the continuation of behaviors which have brought them to prison in the first place. (this of course applies to real criminals, not the victims of drug wars).
posted by Goofyy at 1:27 AM on April 14, 2005
They lock you up alone 'til you go insane, then they punish you for your insanity.
Further, the ones that go into these places are the ones most likely to be damaged by the experience, the ones needing the most treatment.
That being said: I was locked up at age 13. I learned the joys of solitary confinement. I can entertain myself with nothing at all (no, not even that, I was too young), but 2 torn-up styrofoam cups are lots more fun than nothing! Solitary was often a desirable means to escape the other inmates who, at best, were boring, and at worst, bullies. Sometimes I could manage books, sometimes they were taken away. Pen and paper was never allowed.
What I find totally perverted is the notion that direct governmental supervision does not produce the SAFEST environment. I'm fairly sure I've said this before on Metafilter, but I believe convicts are most likely to experience rehab if they could first be made safe. So long as the prison environment is unsafe, it necessitates the continuation of behaviors which have brought them to prison in the first place. (this of course applies to real criminals, not the victims of drug wars).
posted by Goofyy at 1:27 AM on April 14, 2005
Gee Smedleyman - "taking down" cops? Do you have like really overactive testosterone or something - what is the point in all this machismo?
Just go sparring or maybe start a local fight club franchise.
/off topic
UK prisons are supposedly nowhere near as bad as US prisons, several friends of mine who have served sentences have come away from prison ripped from weightlifting and exercise and one of them even got himself a degree. Given the choice - I'd rather do time in solitary than general population for the same reasons as Goofyy.
posted by longbaugh at 5:17 AM on April 14, 2005
Just go sparring or maybe start a local fight club franchise.
/off topic
UK prisons are supposedly nowhere near as bad as US prisons, several friends of mine who have served sentences have come away from prison ripped from weightlifting and exercise and one of them even got himself a degree. Given the choice - I'd rather do time in solitary than general population for the same reasons as Goofyy.
posted by longbaugh at 5:17 AM on April 14, 2005
Smedleyman: Absent the possiblity of his rehabilitation or leading a productive life on the inside, I don't want him harmed, merely held.
Sounds like we were more in agreement than I thought. I thought you were saying you didn't care if inmates were being water tortured to insanity as long as they weren't being released.
posted by Mitheral at 11:34 AM on April 14, 2005
Sounds like we were more in agreement than I thought. I thought you were saying you didn't care if inmates were being water tortured to insanity as long as they weren't being released.
posted by Mitheral at 11:34 AM on April 14, 2005
"Do you have like really overactive testosterone or something - what is the point in all this machismo?"
It's not gonad centered really, more philosophical. It's amazing how folks will passionlessly ignore vast injustices that could directly affect them....like on this very topic....and yet be outraged at say cruelty to chickens. Not that animal cruelty is ok, just a priority thing.
To not resist simply infuriates me.
Is there some better response I'm missing? (Working for change aside, I mean in the immediacy of the event).
I'd argue folks like me are the reason there aren't a lot of home invasions or rampant police violations of the fourth amendment.
Although my method of processing ideas is to internalize them and relate them to personal experiance so I say "I" a lot. So I probably come off like an egotistical macho dick at times. It's a fair cop.
If I use "one" a lot though I'll sound like a Zen theorist.
"Just go sparring or maybe start a local fight club franchise."
The first rule of the club I belong to....well, I can't talk about it, longbaugh.
"Sounds like we were more in agreement than I thought."
My fault for not making it more clear, Mitheral.
/off topic - sorry.
But yeah, what's the deal with Woody's dad in supermax? You'd think the guy would be a bit more nervous promoting marijuana usage.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:48 PM on April 14, 2005
It's not gonad centered really, more philosophical. It's amazing how folks will passionlessly ignore vast injustices that could directly affect them....like on this very topic....and yet be outraged at say cruelty to chickens. Not that animal cruelty is ok, just a priority thing.
To not resist simply infuriates me.
Is there some better response I'm missing? (Working for change aside, I mean in the immediacy of the event).
I'd argue folks like me are the reason there aren't a lot of home invasions or rampant police violations of the fourth amendment.
Although my method of processing ideas is to internalize them and relate them to personal experiance so I say "I" a lot. So I probably come off like an egotistical macho dick at times. It's a fair cop.
If I use "one" a lot though I'll sound like a Zen theorist.
"Just go sparring or maybe start a local fight club franchise."
The first rule of the club I belong to....well, I can't talk about it, longbaugh.
"Sounds like we were more in agreement than I thought."
My fault for not making it more clear, Mitheral.
/off topic - sorry.
But yeah, what's the deal with Woody's dad in supermax? You'd think the guy would be a bit more nervous promoting marijuana usage.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:48 PM on April 14, 2005
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posted by stifford at 11:53 AM on April 13, 2005