Refreshing a Web Site is Illegal?!?
January 6, 2006 3:11 PM Subscribe
A student has been charged with felony for posting a link to his school's web site and telling others to hit the F5 button to refresh and crash it. Irony ensues as Fark, Digg, and Slashdot crash the high school's web site by linking to it. A news video with more information here.
It wouldn't be hard to argue that his instructions constitued a very low-tech DDoS.
It's still breaking-and-entering if you knock in the window with a rock as opposed to cutting the alarm wires, etc.
That said, the ironic side of this story has me in stitches.
posted by S.C. at 3:19 PM on January 6, 2006
It's still breaking-and-entering if you knock in the window with a rock as opposed to cutting the alarm wires, etc.
That said, the ironic side of this story has me in stitches.
posted by S.C. at 3:19 PM on January 6, 2006
That is the dumbest fucking thing I have heard in months. School administrators and government lawyers are the Voltron of stupid.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:22 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:22 PM on January 6, 2006
http://lake.stark.k12.oh.us/hs/ doesn't respond. I wonder why not? ;-)
posted by nlindstrom at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by nlindstrom at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
Irony ensues as Fark, Digg, and Slashdot
...and Metafilter...
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
...and Metafilter...
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
Totally....it IS funny as hell. Stupid too, on his part, but funny as hell.
posted by nevercalm at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by nevercalm at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2006
1025 Lake Center St Nw, Uniontown, OH 44685 - 9466 - tel: (330)877-4282 is the address and telephone of the school if you would like to speak your mind (PriceRitePhoto citizen-justice style).
Also, Fark got the story before anyone else. User BillDozer357 , who was able to see the site before it went down, noted that a hit counter at the bottom said "This page has been viewed 890 times!"
posted by banished at 3:27 PM on January 6, 2006
Also, Fark got the story before anyone else. User BillDozer357 , who was able to see the site before it went down, noted that a hit counter at the bottom said "This page has been viewed 890 times!"
posted by banished at 3:27 PM on January 6, 2006
This page has been viewed 890 times!Must be IIS. Apache would survive at least past the 1,000 mark. ;-)
posted by nlindstrom at 3:30 PM on January 6, 2006
Also funny, the reporter in the story (in the video) accesses the high school's web site and actually hits the F5 button herself to illustrate. Maybe they should charge her too.
posted by banished at 3:31 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by banished at 3:31 PM on January 6, 2006
It's not a crime to refresh a web page, is it? So is telling people to refresh a web page with criminal intent a crime?
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be illegal?
I imagine it would be, however, I doubt that you could convince an educated judge. That said, the jury probably wouldn't understand these details, so it's really up in the air. If I were the boy's parents I'd fight this all the way.
posted by delmoi at 3:34 PM on January 6, 2006
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be illegal?
I imagine it would be, however, I doubt that you could convince an educated judge. That said, the jury probably wouldn't understand these details, so it's really up in the air. If I were the boy's parents I'd fight this all the way.
posted by delmoi at 3:34 PM on January 6, 2006
I imagine it would be, however, I doubt that you could convince an educated judge. That said, the jury probably wouldn't understand these details, so it's really up in the air. If I were the boy's parents I'd fight this all the way.
Err, I imagine that sort of conspiracy would be illegal, however I doubt you could convince a judge in this instance.
Plus, there's no evidence that the kid did any harm until the story went public.
posted by delmoi at 3:35 PM on January 6, 2006
Err, I imagine that sort of conspiracy would be illegal, however I doubt you could convince a judge in this instance.
Plus, there's no evidence that the kid did any harm until the story went public.
posted by delmoi at 3:35 PM on January 6, 2006
Quick: Everybody jump up and down at the same time on the count of three. I heard it'll crack the planet!!! Ready? 1... 2... 3...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:37 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:37 PM on January 6, 2006
So... it's now a crime to direct people to a website that has really crappy bandwidth!?
Sounds like this is just one-half step removed from criminalizing web surfing.
Surf non-corporate sites at your own risk! (hmmmm...)
posted by Davenhill at 3:37 PM on January 6, 2006
Sounds like this is just one-half step removed from criminalizing web surfing.
Surf non-corporate sites at your own risk! (hmmmm...)
posted by Davenhill at 3:37 PM on January 6, 2006
Eh the guy won himself a job in a respectable advertising firm ;-)
posted by elpapacito at 3:38 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by elpapacito at 3:38 PM on January 6, 2006
Must be IIS. Apache would survive at least past the 1,000 mark. ;-)
Actually, in the Fark comments someone says it's Apache 1.3 running on Darwin. The issue is probably either:
1) The hired a crappy PHP programmer to write their webpages.
2) They're running off a shared DSL connection for the school.
posted by sbutler at 3:39 PM on January 6, 2006
Actually, in the Fark comments someone says it's Apache 1.3 running on Darwin. The issue is probably either:
1) The hired a crappy PHP programmer to write their webpages.
2) They're running off a shared DSL connection for the school.
posted by sbutler at 3:39 PM on January 6, 2006
The reporter in the story (in the video) accesses the high school's web site and actually hits the F5 button herself to illustrate.Spewing orange juice out your nose really hurts. Thanks a lot!
posted by nlindstrom at 3:44 PM on January 6, 2006
How is this different from the age-old prank of getting everyone in school to go into the library and check out one book at a time until all the books have been checked out? Or something as mundane as sending out an e-mail telling all your friends to go to the grocery store on X street to buy groceries?
posted by emelenjr at 3:48 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by emelenjr at 3:48 PM on January 6, 2006
Most schools have very limited bandwidth... there just isn't much budget for it. There's some kind of Federal money that they get for Internet access, but it's not a lot, and doesn't pay for very much. If it's hosted locally, the whole school has probably been knocked offline, not just the web server.
What IS it with charging children with felonies these days? Schools now sure seem to have an exaggerated belief in their own importance, mixed with a nasty authoritarian streak. I can't believe this would be good for learning.
Of course, the kids themselves can be real horrors these days too.
posted by Malor at 3:54 PM on January 6, 2006
What IS it with charging children with felonies these days? Schools now sure seem to have an exaggerated belief in their own importance, mixed with a nasty authoritarian streak. I can't believe this would be good for learning.
Of course, the kids themselves can be real horrors these days too.
posted by Malor at 3:54 PM on January 6, 2006
Couldn't one argue this is some kind of online flash mob? How could one make this a crime without also outlawing offline flashmob behaviour?
posted by Herr Fahrstuhl at 3:55 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by Herr Fahrstuhl at 3:55 PM on January 6, 2006
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be illegal?
Bingo. What we have here is an interesting question: how does the legal system deal with a collective action problem? That's what I find most interesting about this. It's not illegal to enter an already crowded highway in your car. It's not illegal to tell your friends to take the highway at the same time. It is illegal to impede traffic. Individual legal/rational actions can have illegal/collectively self-defeating results.
Neat moral question...
posted by generichuman at 3:55 PM on January 6, 2006
Bingo. What we have here is an interesting question: how does the legal system deal with a collective action problem? That's what I find most interesting about this. It's not illegal to enter an already crowded highway in your car. It's not illegal to tell your friends to take the highway at the same time. It is illegal to impede traffic. Individual legal/rational actions can have illegal/collectively self-defeating results.
Neat moral question...
posted by generichuman at 3:55 PM on January 6, 2006
I'm waiting for Onion to pick this up next week.
Meanwhile I expect the charges will be dropped as we see more names and faces of the clueless prosecutors and school administrators.
posted by tzelig at 3:58 PM on January 6, 2006
Meanwhile I expect the charges will be dropped as we see more names and faces of the clueless prosecutors and school administrators.
posted by tzelig at 3:58 PM on January 6, 2006
Conspiracy to destroy public property, or something along those lines, probably.
It's not a crime to refresh a web page, is it? So is telling people to refresh a web page with criminal intent a crime?
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be illegal?
So... it's now a crime to direct people to a website that has really crappy bandwidth!?
He was attempting to orchestrate a denial of service attack. I don't get where the confusion as to if he did something wrong is.
Plus, there's no evidence that the kid did any harm until the story went public.
That's the icing on this particular cake.
posted by jperkins at 4:02 PM on January 6, 2006
How is this different from the age-old prank of getting everyone in school to go into the library and check out one book at a time until all the books have been checked out? Or something as mundane as sending out an e-mail telling all your friends to go to the grocery store on X street to buy groceries?
Don't encourage them.
posted by telstar at 4:03 PM on January 6, 2006
Don't encourage them.
posted by telstar at 4:03 PM on January 6, 2006
I don't even know were to begin with this, so I'll start with the easy one: the media report.
Theditz reporter from the news channel asserts that "...doing so [pressing f5] overloads the computer system..." and, as she does it, the web site refreshes in the video. Obviously not overloaded.
Then there's the DA, saying that the student had committed a crime. Not allegedly committed. He's guilty before even going in front of a judge.
The DA also said that the student could have caused serious damage. To a website? To a High School website?
Then there's the 18-year old student, who should have known better than to incite action that would [he admittedly knew] result in the unavailability of a public website.
Stupidity, all around, but it is middle America, so I don't think any of us are surprised.
posted by Revvy at 4:03 PM on January 6, 2006
The
Then there's the DA, saying that the student had committed a crime. Not allegedly committed. He's guilty before even going in front of a judge.
The DA also said that the student could have caused serious damage. To a website? To a High School website?
Then there's the 18-year old student, who should have known better than to incite action that would [he admittedly knew] result in the unavailability of a public website.
Stupidity, all around, but it is middle America, so I don't think any of us are surprised.
posted by Revvy at 4:03 PM on January 6, 2006
So I should click through to the site and just keep hitting F5 for the rest of the day?
This is stupid but not as stupid as the kids who got suspended for "hacking" their computers by figuring out the password was optional or something really basic like "password".
posted by fenriq at 4:04 PM on January 6, 2006
This is stupid but not as stupid as the kids who got suspended for "hacking" their computers by figuring out the password was optional or something really basic like "password".
posted by fenriq at 4:04 PM on January 6, 2006
Interestng logic. An individual refreshing a page is fine, just like an individual driving an SUV is fine. Too many refreshes, and a page will crash; too many people driving SUV's, and an environment will crash. A kid who tells all his friends to go to a site and refresh is guilty of a crimnal offense, so car companies that spend millions on advertising to get everyone to buy SUV's....
Delmoi got it:
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be legal?
posted by jefgodesky at 4:06 PM on January 6, 2006
Delmoi got it:
In other words, is it illegal to tell someone to do something legal, such that the mass effect would cause something bad to happen, in a way that if you yourself had done it alone, would be legal?
posted by jefgodesky at 4:06 PM on January 6, 2006
Some good came out of this.
I had no idea F5 refreshed a page until today.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:08 PM on January 6, 2006
I had no idea F5 refreshed a page until today.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:08 PM on January 6, 2006
MetaFilter goes to jail:
The video link is down because MrtaFilter told me to click it and it got too much traffic. Gotta be a felony. Maybe even a terrorist attack.
posted by cccorlew at 4:11 PM on January 6, 2006
The video link is down because MrtaFilter told me to click it and it got too much traffic. Gotta be a felony. Maybe even a terrorist attack.
posted by cccorlew at 4:11 PM on January 6, 2006
"School administrators and government lawyers are the Voltron of stupid"
thanks, Optimus Chyme, for the sweeping generalization... that always helps...
posted by HuronBob at 4:19 PM on January 6, 2006
thanks, Optimus Chyme, for the sweeping generalization... that always helps...
posted by HuronBob at 4:19 PM on January 6, 2006
He was attempting to orchestrate a denial of service attack. I don't get where the confusion as to if he did something wrong is.
Of course, one might say that everyone who submits a post to /. is trying the same thing.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 4:21 PM on January 6, 2006
Of course, one might say that everyone who submits a post to /. is trying the same thing.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 4:21 PM on January 6, 2006
... the Voltron of stupid.
Best phrase ever.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 4:24 PM on January 6, 2006
Best phrase ever.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 4:24 PM on January 6, 2006
No sound at work, but I did look at the rest of the links and I saw nothing referencing why it was an earth-shattering hardship for the school's site to be down. My high school website certainly wasn't very important or useful. But I suppose an important step towards developing a prison state is to start the bogus felony charges young...
posted by rollbiz at 4:31 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by rollbiz at 4:31 PM on January 6, 2006
Of course, one might say that everyone who submits a post to /. is trying the same thing.
Hell, I dunno... intent? In one case, someone posts a link of interest and in another someone posts a link with the directions to load that site and then reload it as quickly as possible to crash the server hosting it?
Is there an attorney in the house?
The DA also said that the student could have caused serious damage. To a website? To a High School website?
OK, lemme rephrase my question: is there an intelligent attorney in the house?
posted by jperkins at 4:34 PM on January 6, 2006
Hell, I dunno... intent? In one case, someone posts a link of interest and in another someone posts a link with the directions to load that site and then reload it as quickly as possible to crash the server hosting it?
Is there an attorney in the house?
The DA also said that the student could have caused serious damage. To a website? To a High School website?
OK, lemme rephrase my question: is there an intelligent attorney in the house?
posted by jperkins at 4:34 PM on January 6, 2006
I wonder if we could take the metafilter site down if we all just started hitting F5...hmm.
Now, call me crazy, but doesn't F5 pull from the browser cache if the page hasn't been updated?
posted by davejay at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2006
Now, call me crazy, but doesn't F5 pull from the browser cache if the page hasn't been updated?
posted by davejay at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2006
Forgot to say: someone with livehttpheaders installed on firefox (not me, I'm lazy) should find out. ;)
posted by davejay at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by davejay at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2006
How many F5s must I press to bring down Microsoft? My finger is getting sore.
posted by movilla at 4:39 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by movilla at 4:39 PM on January 6, 2006
davejay, depends on a huge host of factors, but a connection to the server is usually made again..
posted by Firas at 4:40 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by Firas at 4:40 PM on January 6, 2006
You're all obviously a bunch of Communists, since you're missing the obvious business model here.
1. Post spurious 'leaked' Apple info on Geocities site
2. Sue /., MeFi, et al when site goes down
3. Profit!
posted by IshmaelGraves at 4:42 PM on January 6, 2006
1. Post spurious 'leaked' Apple info on Geocities site
2. Sue /., MeFi, et al when site goes down
3. Profit!
posted by IshmaelGraves at 4:42 PM on January 6, 2006
Now, call me crazy, but doesn't F5 pull from the browser cache if the page hasn't been updated?
IIRC, F5 is a full reload so it doesn't check the page's last-updated time or Etag. Don't hold me to that.
Forgot to say: someone with livehttpheaders installed on firefox (not me, I'm lazy) should find out. ;)
When I first read this I thought you were suggesting an easier means of DOS'ing a website than pounding on the F5 key and was going to post a command line script that would do it using wget (or curl), without caching, until you killed it. Discretion got the better part of me. I must be getting old, huh?
posted by jperkins at 4:49 PM on January 6, 2006
IIRC, F5 is a full reload so it doesn't check the page's last-updated time or Etag. Don't hold me to that.
Forgot to say: someone with livehttpheaders installed on firefox (not me, I'm lazy) should find out. ;)
When I first read this I thought you were suggesting an easier means of DOS'ing a website than pounding on the F5 key and was going to post a command line script that would do it using wget (or curl), without caching, until you killed it. Discretion got the better part of me. I must be getting old, huh?
posted by jperkins at 4:49 PM on January 6, 2006
FWIW, jp, I was thinking about doing the same thing (with wget). What are the odds?
posted by davejay at 4:54 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by davejay at 4:54 PM on January 6, 2006
FWIW, jp, I was thinking about doing the same thing (with wget). What are the odds?
And if you'd done it, the Monday headlines would've read: "Secret Terrorist Website Used to Pass Code to Bring the Internet Down Shut Down By FBI." And then there would be that ackward moment when the feds showed up wanting to talk to you. With 15 news camera crews in tow.
There was a time that you could post that sort of code with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Anymore, well...
posted by jperkins at 5:02 PM on January 6, 2006
And if you'd done it, the Monday headlines would've read: "Secret Terrorist Website Used to Pass Code to Bring the Internet Down Shut Down By FBI." And then there would be that ackward moment when the feds showed up wanting to talk to you. With 15 news camera crews in tow.
There was a time that you could post that sort of code with tongue firmly planted in cheek. Anymore, well...
posted by jperkins at 5:02 PM on January 6, 2006
The funniest part is that if the site was hosted locally (and presumably accessible through the school's LAN) the students inside the school wouldn't have clogged the internet connection and caused an inturruption of service the way the story getting noticed has.
Voltron of Stupid is the best phrase I've heard all day.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:32 PM on January 6, 2006
Voltron of Stupid is the best phrase I've heard all day.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:32 PM on January 6, 2006
Oho! He who was once the PWN3R has become the PWN3D! Touché!
I think through cowardly and unfairly charging this teen with a felony, they've given him greater lesson in how the world really operates than could be taught through an entire semester of Social Studies.
posted by Down10 at 5:44 PM on January 6, 2006
I think through cowardly and unfairly charging this teen with a felony, they've given him greater lesson in how the world really operates than could be taught through an entire semester of Social Studies.
posted by Down10 at 5:44 PM on January 6, 2006
I can't connect to the site right now. I wonder if all the publicity it is currently getting is causing the site to be down again. Maybe i should refresh until it comes back up :shiftyeyes:.
Or...figure out a way to protect a network form DOS attacks.
posted by nickerbocker at 5:49 PM on January 6, 2006
Or...figure out a way to protect a network form DOS attacks.
posted by nickerbocker at 5:49 PM on January 6, 2006
Interesting from a cultural milemarker perspective -- 20 years ago, perhaps he would have been doing anonymous, petty vandalism such as throwing a rock through a window at night or something as benign as egging someone's car. I wonder how a lack of anonymity for adolescent troublemaking (and the thread of being charged with felonies) will ultimately alter how these kids behave when they grow up. Plenty of successful people anonymously caused trouble in public when they were younger.
posted by VulcanMike at 6:11 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by VulcanMike at 6:11 PM on January 6, 2006
"the Voltron of stupid" is probably the best phrase I've heard all year. Congrats, Optimus Cryme, on giving birth to a delicious monster that we'll undoubtably be sick to death of in just a few days, and then for years to come.
posted by loquacious at 6:30 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by loquacious at 6:30 PM on January 6, 2006
the Voltron of stupid
I just gotta ask...is that the lion Voltron, or the vehicle Voltron?
posted by deusdiabolus at 6:37 PM on January 6, 2006
I just gotta ask...is that the lion Voltron, or the vehicle Voltron?
posted by deusdiabolus at 6:37 PM on January 6, 2006
1) crontab -e
2) Add:
* * * * * wget http://lake.stark.k12.oh.us/hs/
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!
posted by phrontist at 6:37 PM on January 6, 2006
2) Add:
* * * * * wget http://lake.stark.k12.oh.us/hs/
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!!
posted by phrontist at 6:37 PM on January 6, 2006
I can't let this one go without comment*:
"An individual refreshing a page is fine, just like an individual driving an SUV is fine. Too many refreshes, and a page will crash; too many people driving SUV's, and an environment will crash. A kid who tells all his friends to go to a site and refresh is guilty of a crimnal offense, so car companies that spend millions on advertising to get everyone to buy SUV's... "
Nice false parallell, jefgodesky. (You were trying to point out the absurdity of comparing an intentional, co-ordinated DOS attack with the unintended consequence of un-coordinated groups of people choosing to drive vehicles that are less fuel-efficient than other vehicles they could have freely chosen to buy, weren't you?)
Intent would be key to proving a crime of this sort. However, I hope no one wastes the court's time with this one. How about some nice detention, instead? Plus forty hours of community service making a more bullet-proof website for the school system?
*Full disclosure: I work for a car company.
posted by jenii at 7:17 PM on January 6, 2006
"An individual refreshing a page is fine, just like an individual driving an SUV is fine. Too many refreshes, and a page will crash; too many people driving SUV's, and an environment will crash. A kid who tells all his friends to go to a site and refresh is guilty of a crimnal offense, so car companies that spend millions on advertising to get everyone to buy SUV's... "
Nice false parallell, jefgodesky. (You were trying to point out the absurdity of comparing an intentional, co-ordinated DOS attack with the unintended consequence of un-coordinated groups of people choosing to drive vehicles that are less fuel-efficient than other vehicles they could have freely chosen to buy, weren't you?)
Intent would be key to proving a crime of this sort. However, I hope no one wastes the court's time with this one. How about some nice detention, instead? Plus forty hours of community service making a more bullet-proof website for the school system?
*Full disclosure: I work for a car company.
posted by jenii at 7:17 PM on January 6, 2006
For the record F5 is just like clicking the reload icon you need to shift-refresh to tell the browser not to use the cached copy.
posted by zeoslap at 7:46 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by zeoslap at 7:46 PM on January 6, 2006
For the record F5 is just like clicking the reload icon you need to shift-refresh to tell the browser not to use the cached copy.
NARC!
...(jokes)
posted by Peter H at 7:57 PM on January 6, 2006
NARC!
...(jokes)
posted by Peter H at 7:57 PM on January 6, 2006
It's not a crime to swing your fists wildly in a circle, until you hit someone. I don't know that this should be a felony, though. Because it crossed state lines (using the Internet)?
posted by Eideteker at 8:49 PM on January 6, 2006
posted by Eideteker at 8:49 PM on January 6, 2006
It's not a crime to swing your fists wildly in a circle, until you hit someone. I don't know that this should be a felony, though.
It shouldn't be. Used to be that good kids could make mistakes sometimes. Give 'em a good talking to, send 'em on their way.
Kid steals a pack of gum? Take them back to the store and make them pay for it and apologize.
Kid crashes a website? A website?? It wasn't even a computer. As far as I can tell, it wasn't even important. What, was it controlling the life support system of a hospital? The flight paths of the Air Force? Felony my eye.
Community service, methinks. In fact, they should put the kid in charge of the high school's website. Till he graduates. Instead of teaching him everyone's out to get him, teach him how to use his skills to help someone out.
I think the whole thing is hilarious. Except for the felony part. That's just retarded.
posted by eleyna at 10:19 PM on January 6, 2006
It shouldn't be. Used to be that good kids could make mistakes sometimes. Give 'em a good talking to, send 'em on their way.
Kid steals a pack of gum? Take them back to the store and make them pay for it and apologize.
Kid crashes a website? A website?? It wasn't even a computer. As far as I can tell, it wasn't even important. What, was it controlling the life support system of a hospital? The flight paths of the Air Force? Felony my eye.
Community service, methinks. In fact, they should put the kid in charge of the high school's website. Till he graduates. Instead of teaching him everyone's out to get him, teach him how to use his skills to help someone out.
I think the whole thing is hilarious. Except for the felony part. That's just retarded.
posted by eleyna at 10:19 PM on January 6, 2006
It shouldn't be. Used to be that good kids could make mistakes sometimes. Give 'em a good talking to, send 'em on their way.
Kid steals a pack of gum? Take them back to the store and make them pay for it and apologize.
That's the best quote from the entire thread. America lost that way of life and I want it back.
posted by banished at 12:31 AM on January 7, 2006
Kid steals a pack of gum? Take them back to the store and make them pay for it and apologize.
That's the best quote from the entire thread. America lost that way of life and I want it back.
posted by banished at 12:31 AM on January 7, 2006
Public schools tend to be really uptight or just plain ridiculous when it comes to web/network issues. I've seen and attempted to remedy more hysteria on that subject than I would have thought possible. Maybe that's representative of the parent-aged mindset in general? Hopefully the paranoia will be gone in a few dozen more years as the people in charge are no longer afraid of the scary beige boxes.
Before any parent-aged Mefites jump on me for that one, I'd have to say that you probably aren't the type spawning and joining school boards in Ohio. Nor Missouri, where my friend got so hounded for writing and hosting on his own personal website a php web proxy script that he was suspended, given the "hacker" treatment (was not allowed to touch a computer connected to the network at all, or even use school phones), was blamed for network problems and eventually decided to drop out. Nothing has ever made me desire so strongly to Stick It To The Man.
posted by luftmensch at 12:38 AM on January 7, 2006
Before any parent-aged Mefites jump on me for that one, I'd have to say that you probably aren't the type spawning and joining school boards in Ohio. Nor Missouri, where my friend got so hounded for writing and hosting on his own personal website a php web proxy script that he was suspended, given the "hacker" treatment (was not allowed to touch a computer connected to the network at all, or even use school phones), was blamed for network problems and eventually decided to drop out. Nothing has ever made me desire so strongly to Stick It To The Man.
posted by luftmensch at 12:38 AM on January 7, 2006
I think we'll all agree that the student was being a naughty boy. But a criminal?
As already mentioned, what's interesting here is that he's been arrested and facing potential jail time. I would have thought that a few detentions and being grounded is a more appropriate punishment.
Hell, I did much worse on school computer systems. As did most of the other bored nerds. I'm more struck by this kid's complete lack of subtlety & sophistication - if there's ever a time for being a script kiddie, it's school. Not that I'm encouraging it!
(Bloody kids!)
posted by iso_bars at 3:58 AM on January 7, 2006
As already mentioned, what's interesting here is that he's been arrested and facing potential jail time. I would have thought that a few detentions and being grounded is a more appropriate punishment.
Hell, I did much worse on school computer systems. As did most of the other bored nerds. I'm more struck by this kid's complete lack of subtlety & sophistication - if there's ever a time for being a script kiddie, it's school. Not that I'm encouraging it!
(Bloody kids!)
posted by iso_bars at 3:58 AM on January 7, 2006
Well, it is a DDoS attack, but unlike most DDoS's, this one would most likely petered out pretty harmlessly.
May I smash the state by mashing refresh? C'mon folks, we'll see if we can segfault the whitehouse.
posted by chibikeandy at 6:07 AM on January 7, 2006
May I smash the state by mashing refresh? C'mon folks, we'll see if we can segfault the whitehouse.
posted by chibikeandy at 6:07 AM on January 7, 2006
I think we'll all agree that the student was being a naughty boy. But a criminal?
posted by iso_bars at 3:58 AM PST on January 7
I don't even think he was being naughty. If you don't want people linking to your website, a) don't have one; b) disallow referrals; or c) have a contingency plan in case more than a dozen people show up at once. The latter two options would probably stymie most school website administrators, but there you go.
Encouraging people to refresh a page isn't a fucking felony. Check this shit out:
ATTENTION ALL MEFITES AND LURKERS PLEASE GO TO SLASHDOT.ORG AND HIT F5 A BUNCH.
Okay I am waiting for the internet police to come bust down my door because holy shit I am like Mr. Lex Luthor over here.
What the ridiculousness of it is, is that the kid is being punished not because of his actions, but because the website is a piece of shit apparently run off of a Seiko; it's a crime to encourage others to refresh a small site but not a large one? That's insanity.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:38 AM on January 7, 2006
posted by iso_bars at 3:58 AM PST on January 7
I don't even think he was being naughty. If you don't want people linking to your website, a) don't have one; b) disallow referrals; or c) have a contingency plan in case more than a dozen people show up at once. The latter two options would probably stymie most school website administrators, but there you go.
Encouraging people to refresh a page isn't a fucking felony. Check this shit out:
ATTENTION ALL MEFITES AND LURKERS PLEASE GO TO SLASHDOT.ORG AND HIT F5 A BUNCH.
Okay I am waiting for the internet police to come bust down my door because holy shit I am like Mr. Lex Luthor over here.
What the ridiculousness of it is, is that the kid is being punished not because of his actions, but because the website is a piece of shit apparently run off of a Seiko; it's a crime to encourage others to refresh a small site but not a large one? That's insanity.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:38 AM on January 7, 2006
The kid clearly thought he was going to do some sort of harm, trivial though it may have been. That looks like Mens Rea to me.
This kid ought to be treated the same way I was, back when I did something similar (does anyone remember a program for the Mac, maybe by the name of At Ease?): 5 hours of community service helping the janitors.
Follow that up (eventually) with a call from the scruffy ex roadie who ran the network, tech-theater, and AV for the school district, and you've given the kid some marketable skills and job experience.
I'm always amazed how good my school seems compared to other public schools. Guess that's what comes of living in a blue state.
posted by Richard Daly at 9:08 AM on January 7, 2006
This kid ought to be treated the same way I was, back when I did something similar (does anyone remember a program for the Mac, maybe by the name of At Ease?): 5 hours of community service helping the janitors.
Follow that up (eventually) with a call from the scruffy ex roadie who ran the network, tech-theater, and AV for the school district, and you've given the kid some marketable skills and job experience.
I'm always amazed how good my school seems compared to other public schools. Guess that's what comes of living in a blue state.
posted by Richard Daly at 9:08 AM on January 7, 2006
The kid should get some reprimand, but anything more is absurd. Additional thoughts:
Thanks for the reminder of why I don't watch tv anymore (seemingly lobotomized cub reporter and anchor team).
I just think that most people who going into school administration are mediocre twits. Always were, always will be.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:42 AM on January 7, 2006
Thanks for the reminder of why I don't watch tv anymore (seemingly lobotomized cub reporter and anchor team).
I just think that most people who going into school administration are mediocre twits. Always were, always will be.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:42 AM on January 7, 2006
"I'm always amazed how good my school seems compared to other public schools. Guess that's what comes of living in a blue state."
No, it's not a red state/blue state issue. I assure you, the same stupidity can be found in California as well.
posted by drstein at 11:35 AM on January 7, 2006
No, it's not a red state/blue state issue. I assure you, the same stupidity can be found in California as well.
posted by drstein at 11:35 AM on January 7, 2006
The most level-headed comments on here are pretty right on: The crime was childish prankery, they're trying to punsh him like he's fired a shot at a senator. It's just stupid.
There are much better ways to teach a kid a lesson than to show him that the People In Charge really ARE lame assholes, but I guess that would be lying.
posted by zerolives at 11:45 AM on January 7, 2006
There are much better ways to teach a kid a lesson than to show him that the People In Charge really ARE lame assholes, but I guess that would be lying.
posted by zerolives at 11:45 AM on January 7, 2006
Okay, here's my last thought on it. If they are going to charge this kid, they need to subpoena the information of every person who attempted to access the site and charge them with that crime as well.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:49 AM on January 8, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:49 AM on January 8, 2006
Alvy Ampersand writes "I had no idea F5 refreshed a page until today."
If your running windows F5 refreshes all sorts of windows (EG: windows explorer)
posted by Mitheral at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2006
If your running windows F5 refreshes all sorts of windows (EG: windows explorer)
posted by Mitheral at 8:48 AM on January 9, 2006
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