MTV
January 4, 2001 5:52 PM Subscribe
MTV will run a continuous list of hate crime victims' names for 17 hours. Seems like a somewhat empty gesture to me...
This frightens me, not because they're doing it as an empty gesture, but because people will actually buy this tripe as a decent substitute for Eminem's questionable song lyrics.
What does it show about our society when an album depicting insane amounts of hate crimes becomes immensely popular and goes multi-platinum? *frown*
I normally don't bash my moral values into people, because I don't feel it's my place to question that, but this is where I'd draw the line.
posted by nickd at 7:21 PM on January 4, 2001
What does it show about our society when an album depicting insane amounts of hate crimes becomes immensely popular and goes multi-platinum? *frown*
I normally don't bash my moral values into people, because I don't feel it's my place to question that, but this is where I'd draw the line.
posted by nickd at 7:21 PM on January 4, 2001
What does it show about our society when an album depicting insane amounts of hate crimes becomes immensely popular and goes multi-platinum? *frown*
Well, not to defend the lyrics, but I imagine most people weren't buying it so much for the hate as for the really skillful rapping. I generally don't enjoy rap, but I'll admit "The Real Slim Shady" is quite entertaining and very well done. (Will I lose all respect of MetaFiltrates for that statement? Oh wait, it's too late for that! :) Not so good as to buy the album, but worth downloading off Napster.
I normally don't bash my moral values into people, because I don't feel it's my place to question that, but this is where I'd draw the line.
What line? The line of telling people you think they're wrong? Or the line of you think something should be done (by the government) about it?
posted by daveadams at 9:32 PM on January 4, 2001
Well, not to defend the lyrics, but I imagine most people weren't buying it so much for the hate as for the really skillful rapping. I generally don't enjoy rap, but I'll admit "The Real Slim Shady" is quite entertaining and very well done. (Will I lose all respect of MetaFiltrates for that statement? Oh wait, it's too late for that! :) Not so good as to buy the album, but worth downloading off Napster.
I normally don't bash my moral values into people, because I don't feel it's my place to question that, but this is where I'd draw the line.
What line? The line of telling people you think they're wrong? Or the line of you think something should be done (by the government) about it?
posted by daveadams at 9:32 PM on January 4, 2001
This may make some people upset with me, but this seems analogous to me to filling a park in DC with grave-size quilts, one for each AIDS victim. It strikes me that both are equally valuable -- or equally meaningless.
The theory is to sensitize people to the sheer magnitude of the problem, I guess. Whether it will actually make any difference is certainly debatable.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 9:41 PM on January 4, 2001
The theory is to sensitize people to the sheer magnitude of the problem, I guess. Whether it will actually make any difference is certainly debatable.
posted by Steven Den Beste at 9:41 PM on January 4, 2001
it sends a strong message to impressionable young people who look to MTV for what to think & believe that hate crimes are a BIG DEAL.
posted by palegirl at 10:51 PM on January 4, 2001
posted by palegirl at 10:51 PM on January 4, 2001
I've heard around a half-dozen Eminem songs and thought they were hilarious, off-color stuff -- funny because they're in such bad taste and he's a demented lyricist. If Eminem was a stand-up comedian instead of a rapper, I don't think anyone would think twice about the content of the material.
posted by rcade at 11:05 PM on January 4, 2001
posted by rcade at 11:05 PM on January 4, 2001
If Eminem was a stand-up comedian instead of a rapper, I don't think anyone would think twice about the content of the material.But don't you think that stand-up comedy can get away with more off-colour material because they're joking? Some of Eminem's songs are hilarious.. but only because he seems to be treating them as a big joke too. With other songs like "Stan" (my familiarity with Eminem's work is limited, so there might be a better example), the artist seems to be dead serious and in bad taste, which is one place that very few stand-up comedians would ever go.
posted by jess at 11:22 PM on January 4, 2001
posted by jess at 11:22 PM on January 4, 2001
So, will MTV be listing the names of ALL hate crime victims? Or only of the victims of certain politically powerful groups? Will there be the names of white men targeted by blacks for their race? Or kids who beat some schoolkid to within an inch of his life because he's fat?
This "hate crime" BS is just the sort of thing that allows the ultra-militant right-wingers to yell "See? Special rights for certain groups!" and be correct.
posted by aaron at 11:28 PM on January 4, 2001
MTV doesn't think hate crimes are a big deal. MTV is a corporation solely concerned with making money. The way it makes money is by pretending it is the voice of liberal youth culture so that it can market the latest such and such to the people it purports to represent.
The fact that they do this while having spent the greater part of this year promoting Eminem (whose talent is debatable but whose content is not, the latter not being excusable by the former) shows a complete lack of consistency in their 'beliefs'. The reason for this is that they, of course, have no beliefs. MTV is just filler between advertisements.
posted by buddha9090 at 11:53 PM on January 4, 2001
The fact that they do this while having spent the greater part of this year promoting Eminem (whose talent is debatable but whose content is not, the latter not being excusable by the former) shows a complete lack of consistency in their 'beliefs'. The reason for this is that they, of course, have no beliefs. MTV is just filler between advertisements.
posted by buddha9090 at 11:53 PM on January 4, 2001
Eminem has mad lyrical skills but some things just aren't funny. And 17 hours is a lot of names.
posted by sudama at 11:53 PM on January 4, 2001
posted by sudama at 11:53 PM on January 4, 2001
17 hours, maybe, but the names begin to scroll at 10 pm. Exactly how many kids are going to be up watching MTV at 10 at night?
Seems pretty empty, seeing as it will end in time for the next day's TRL.
posted by Psionic_Tim at 12:23 AM on January 5, 2001
Seems pretty empty, seeing as it will end in time for the next day's TRL.
posted by Psionic_Tim at 12:23 AM on January 5, 2001
Let's face it. They're doing this cuz it's trendy. The term 'hate crime' is 'politically correct' right now, but whether a crime is motivated by economics or prejudice, it's an illusion to say one is worse than the other. All this sounds good on daytime television, but playing with phraseology ain't changing the fact that people are dying. This is a cold and empty gesture on EmptyVee's part. Better had they done nothing than do this.
They could opt to refuse playing any music which glamorizes or exhalts such behavior, but that would mean turning away millions of dollars. EmptyVee won't do that. EmptyVee has no principles. GOD how I miss Calvin and Hobbes but Watterson quit because of his principles, and I for one can respect that. If EmptyVee actually wanted people to take them seriously about this, they could learn from his example. But they won't. Why? Cuz they're doing this for money and not because it is the right thing to do. So it's a hollow and empty gesture.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:25 AM on January 5, 2001
They could opt to refuse playing any music which glamorizes or exhalts such behavior, but that would mean turning away millions of dollars. EmptyVee won't do that. EmptyVee has no principles. GOD how I miss Calvin and Hobbes but Watterson quit because of his principles, and I for one can respect that. If EmptyVee actually wanted people to take them seriously about this, they could learn from his example. But they won't. Why? Cuz they're doing this for money and not because it is the right thing to do. So it's a hollow and empty gesture.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:25 AM on January 5, 2001
but of course why expect anything less from EmptyVee, y'know?
posted by ZachsMind at 12:36 AM on January 5, 2001
posted by ZachsMind at 12:36 AM on January 5, 2001
From the Article
bias-related murder
I just Love that turn of phrase
posted by fullerine at 1:38 AM on January 5, 2001
bias-related murder
I just Love that turn of phrase
posted by fullerine at 1:38 AM on January 5, 2001
While we're talking about MTV.....
I cant believe I saw nudity--topless women today at about 6pm on MTV! Anyone else catch that? Something about two girls getting breast implants.
posted by grank at 2:13 AM on January 5, 2001
I cant believe I saw nudity--topless women today at about 6pm on MTV! Anyone else catch that? Something about two girls getting breast implants.
posted by grank at 2:13 AM on January 5, 2001
A note on "Stan". Jess, have you ever actually listened to the song?
It's a statement to Eminem's fans that what Eminem is doing is outting his aggression, not a call to arms.
Eminem's not some revolutionary artist, he's just some guy with some talent that's chosen this method to out his aggression. Music doesn't kill people, people kill people.
posted by cCranium at 6:03 AM on January 5, 2001
It's a statement to Eminem's fans that what Eminem is doing is outting his aggression, not a call to arms.
Eminem's not some revolutionary artist, he's just some guy with some talent that's chosen this method to out his aggression. Music doesn't kill people, people kill people.
posted by cCranium at 6:03 AM on January 5, 2001
In my opinion, the reason why Eminem can sell 1.5 million albums is because he represents that rage and aggression that we hear about in the news everyday. Disfunctional families, poverty and young people being against the establishment. On one hand, we criticize Eminem for his intolerance and violence but we live in country that has a strong history of violence even before Eminem, domestic violence, child abuse, and "hate crimes" let's not forget the 60's.
The issue is Eminem is a role model or is he just trying to make a whole lot of money by using sex and hatred as his selling tool.
Now with MTV you can look at it two ways, either the Anti-Discrimination Campaign is another service project that companies do kind of like donating baskets to the poor at Thanksgiving. Or are they trying to educate an already established audience on a serious subject. Let's face it mainstream media, CNN, FOX, etc, do not cover news from a perspective that young people move towards or cover issues that affect their lives directly.
posted by passionblack at 8:02 AM on January 5, 2001
The issue is Eminem is a role model or is he just trying to make a whole lot of money by using sex and hatred as his selling tool.
Now with MTV you can look at it two ways, either the Anti-Discrimination Campaign is another service project that companies do kind of like donating baskets to the poor at Thanksgiving. Or are they trying to educate an already established audience on a serious subject. Let's face it mainstream media, CNN, FOX, etc, do not cover news from a perspective that young people move towards or cover issues that affect their lives directly.
posted by passionblack at 8:02 AM on January 5, 2001
having had my own ass kicked for being gay makes me think it's a fine gesture. to hell with trendiness or MTV's impetus for putting such things online. what matters is that viewers will remember, once they tune in, that there are enough names to fill seventeen hours of major network airtime.
posted by patricking at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2001
posted by patricking at 8:03 AM on January 5, 2001
I don't know about the "kids," but I personally stopped watching MTV around the time it became clear they hardly ever played any M any longer. Just shows such as The Real World and TRL. I think it was about the same time they stopped having N on CNN.
posted by bradlands at 8:09 AM on January 5, 2001
posted by bradlands at 8:09 AM on January 5, 2001
Shame they can't shut down permanently. Now THAT would be a worthy gesture.
posted by silusGROK at 8:30 AM on January 5, 2001
posted by silusGROK at 8:30 AM on January 5, 2001
But don't you think that stand-up comedy can get away with more off-colour material because they're joking? Some of Eminem's songs are hilarious.. but only because he seems to be treating them as a big joke too.
After reading some of the press about him last year, I thought Eminem was an offense to human decency too, but when I listed to a half-dozen of his songs it was easy to see that he's doing comedy in the form of rap. I'd be uncomfortable as hell if my kids were older and listening to his albums, but I have to admit they're pretty funny.
With other songs like "Stan" (my familiarity with Eminem's work is limited, so there might be a better example), the artist seems to be dead serious and in bad taste, which is one place that very few stand-up comedians would ever go.
What's offensive about Stan? The song, for those who are unfamiliar with it, is a series of letters exchanged between Eminem and an obsessed fan who takes his songs too seriously. Eminem tells the guy he says the things he does because he is "clowning" and that he should seek counseling and take better care of his girlfriend. It's a friggin' afterschool special, though without a happy ending.
posted by rcade at 8:31 AM on January 5, 2001
After reading some of the press about him last year, I thought Eminem was an offense to human decency too, but when I listed to a half-dozen of his songs it was easy to see that he's doing comedy in the form of rap. I'd be uncomfortable as hell if my kids were older and listening to his albums, but I have to admit they're pretty funny.
With other songs like "Stan" (my familiarity with Eminem's work is limited, so there might be a better example), the artist seems to be dead serious and in bad taste, which is one place that very few stand-up comedians would ever go.
What's offensive about Stan? The song, for those who are unfamiliar with it, is a series of letters exchanged between Eminem and an obsessed fan who takes his songs too seriously. Eminem tells the guy he says the things he does because he is "clowning" and that he should seek counseling and take better care of his girlfriend. It's a friggin' afterschool special, though without a happy ending.
posted by rcade at 8:31 AM on January 5, 2001
Eminem is the Jonathan Swift of our time.
Of course, Jewel is the best-selling poet of our time. Maybe our time isn't so good?
posted by Jart at 12:07 PM on January 5, 2001
Of course, Jewel is the best-selling poet of our time. Maybe our time isn't so good?
posted by Jart at 12:07 PM on January 5, 2001
The sad thing is MTV obviously knows there is something inherantly wrong with the message some artists send out through the easily acccessible medium of music. What other reason would they start showing these victims' names? Its timely for them. "OOOPS we may have stepped in it so let's try to apease the general public." I do not advicate sensorship...but I do think MTV (and other general access outlets) could show a little more responsibility as to how much they play and when they play it.
posted by Princess Buttercup at 7:44 PM on January 5, 2001
posted by Princess Buttercup at 7:44 PM on January 5, 2001
MTV2, which is available on some cable systems and on both DirecTV and Dish Network, plays music videos almost all the time. It's a beautiful thing. They do tend to play things too much, and they play a lot of stuff I don't like, but they've also played a good amount of stuff I never expected them to play, and other things I'm glad I got to hear/see.
posted by kindall at 9:29 PM on January 5, 2001
posted by kindall at 9:29 PM on January 5, 2001
Even better than MTV2 is VH1 Classic. Nothing but videos 24/7. Not even VJs or ads. And no 90s music.
posted by aaron at 11:45 PM on January 5, 2001
posted by aaron at 11:45 PM on January 5, 2001
No '90s music? What a shame. Well over half my CD collection is music from the '90s. Of course, give me another decade and it'll be over half music from the noughts. My CD collection so far has more than doubled in size every decade. I have at least a dozen discs on my "to-buy" list right now.
posted by kindall at 8:16 PM on January 6, 2001
posted by kindall at 8:16 PM on January 6, 2001
OK...I watched MTV a bit this morning to catch some of what they were doing. They showed nothing on the screen but text of what they were reading aloud about given Hate Crimes. The examples given were a mixture of crimes against Gays, Women, Hispanics, Blacks etc. After every few listings a celebrity voice came on to give the PSA.
I apprecieate what MTV is trying to do, but I also believe that playing the songs that are PRO- hate crimes (either straight out or implied) negates the message they are trying to make. Especially since this is only one day of positive message and 364 days of negitive.
posted by Princess Buttercup at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2001
I apprecieate what MTV is trying to do, but I also believe that playing the songs that are PRO- hate crimes (either straight out or implied) negates the message they are trying to make. Especially since this is only one day of positive message and 364 days of negitive.
posted by Princess Buttercup at 6:42 AM on January 11, 2001
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