Purity Balls--Perhaps More Attention to Balls is Required
April 20, 2006 6:10 PM Subscribe
"The Father Daughter Purity Ball is a memorable ceremony for daughters to pledge commitments to purity and their fathers to pledge commitments to protect their girls." Do Purity Balls, an offshoot of the virginity pledge movement work? The research says they do postpone first intercourse but have no impact on STD rates (1, 2 - PDFs). Perhaps a discussion of, uh, protection should be added to the "Covenant of Purity and Protection" signed by the dancing dads.
This is just creepy. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to make value judgements... No, it's stil creepy.
posted by rdr at 6:13 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by rdr at 6:13 PM on April 20, 2006
Where's the "balls" tag??
posted by selfmedicating at 6:22 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by selfmedicating at 6:22 PM on April 20, 2006
People who ritualize virginity are weird.
posted by wfrgms at 6:24 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by wfrgms at 6:24 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
'Daddy, I'm so excited!' Eeeyuu.
This is just begging for parody.
posted by tula at 6:25 PM on April 20, 2006
This is just begging for parody.
posted by tula at 6:25 PM on April 20, 2006
I'm not into this virginity pledge stuff, but with a daughter who's about to enter the teenage years, this dad is preparing to protect her virginity--with a shotgun, if necessary. I remember what I was like as a teenager in regard to getting into girls' pants!
posted by tippiedog at 6:29 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by tippiedog at 6:29 PM on April 20, 2006
As the father of a daughter all I can say is this is creepy....
posted by photoslob at 6:31 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by photoslob at 6:31 PM on April 20, 2006
I was gonna say something crass but this ad just creeped me out too much.
posted by elr at 6:32 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by elr at 6:32 PM on April 20, 2006
Heh. Girl Scouts also sponsors father-daughter dances, although without the abstinence theme and without quite such a creepy vibe:
One of the most memorable highlights of the ball is when the fathers stand in the middle of the ballroom and form a circle around their daughters standing all aglow in their lovely ball gowns. The fathers place their hands on their daughters, and together we pray for purity of mind, body, and soul for generations to come.
"Place their hands on" is too easy, but "form[ing] a circle around" is kind of literal for my taste.
At my Girl Scout version, I won the door prize; it was a teddy bear dressed like a bride . . . hey, wait a minute. Maybe there was more of a creepy vibe than I remember.
posted by booksandlibretti at 6:33 PM on April 20, 2006
One of the most memorable highlights of the ball is when the fathers stand in the middle of the ballroom and form a circle around their daughters standing all aglow in their lovely ball gowns. The fathers place their hands on their daughters, and together we pray for purity of mind, body, and soul for generations to come.
"Place their hands on" is too easy, but "form[ing] a circle around" is kind of literal for my taste.
At my Girl Scout version, I won the door prize; it was a teddy bear dressed like a bride . . . hey, wait a minute. Maybe there was more of a creepy vibe than I remember.
posted by booksandlibretti at 6:33 PM on April 20, 2006
oh ok.
creepy (but I like his shirt/tie combo)
creepy
john waters has a kid???
cute couple
posted by elr at 6:36 PM on April 20, 2006
creepy (but I like his shirt/tie combo)
creepy
john waters has a kid???
cute couple
posted by elr at 6:36 PM on April 20, 2006
two words: swap meet.
posted by fleetmouse at 6:38 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by fleetmouse at 6:38 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
rdr: no, it's creepy
slefmedicating: now tagged with "balls"
posted by donovan at 6:39 PM on April 20, 2006
slefmedicating: now tagged with "balls"
posted by donovan at 6:39 PM on April 20, 2006
It gets creepier and creepier - we are one step away from chastity belts here.
Apparently there is some special chastity jewelry available for man and girl to exhange in the covenant ceremony:
... You then explain to the child that you will hold the key to her precious heart until the day of her wedding. On that day, you will give her away like at all weddings, BUT in doing so you will also “give away” the key to her heart to her now husband. The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it.
More at digby
posted by madamjujujive at 6:48 PM on April 20, 2006
Apparently there is some special chastity jewelry available for man and girl to exhange in the covenant ceremony:
... You then explain to the child that you will hold the key to her precious heart until the day of her wedding. On that day, you will give her away like at all weddings, BUT in doing so you will also “give away” the key to her heart to her now husband. The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it.
More at digby
posted by madamjujujive at 6:48 PM on April 20, 2006
... You then explain to the child that you will hold the key to her precious heart until the day of her wedding. On that day, you will give her away like at all weddings, BUT in doing so you will also “give away” the key to her heart to her now husband. The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it.
I feel sorry for the groom. He is going to have one hell of a mess to deal with.
posted by ninjew at 6:53 PM on April 20, 2006
I feel sorry for the groom. He is going to have one hell of a mess to deal with.
posted by ninjew at 6:53 PM on April 20, 2006
I suppose this would not be so creepy if the fathers involved in this were not, in a very visceral sense, claiming ownership over a property of their daughter's sexuality. Their daughter's virginity is not theirs, it is not theirs to defend, to protect, or to otherwise make grunting and fighting noises over.
It happens to be hers, and the best anyone can do is provide her with as much guidance, love, acceptance and information as possible, with the hope that she makes good decisions.
posted by oflinkey at 6:53 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
It happens to be hers, and the best anyone can do is provide her with as much guidance, love, acceptance and information as possible, with the hope that she makes good decisions.
posted by oflinkey at 6:53 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
they need to have a "don't get pregnant at 14" ball. Intelligent, realistic fathers should be prepared for their daughers to do the nasty with hooligans behind daddies back and, acccordingly, advise those daughters about protection.
posted by Megafly at 6:56 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by Megafly at 6:56 PM on April 20, 2006
The pledge is majorly fucked:
"I, (daughter’s name)’s father, choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity. I will be pure in my own life as a man, husband and father. I will be a man of integrity and accountability as I lead, guide and pray over my daughter and as the high priest in my home. This covering will be used by God to influence generations to come."
posted by papakwanz at 7:02 PM on April 20, 2006
"I, (daughter’s name)’s father, choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity. I will be pure in my own life as a man, husband and father. I will be a man of integrity and accountability as I lead, guide and pray over my daughter and as the high priest in my home. This covering will be used by God to influence generations to come."
posted by papakwanz at 7:02 PM on April 20, 2006
Very creepy.
posted by homunculus at 7:06 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by homunculus at 7:06 PM on April 20, 2006
Cult of the Foetus meets Cult of the Hymen. How special.
*utterly squicked out at how icky this is*
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 7:08 PM on April 20, 2006
*utterly squicked out at how icky this is*
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 7:08 PM on April 20, 2006
via digby, world o' crap connects the dots to Randall Terry.
posted by bardic at 7:12 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by bardic at 7:12 PM on April 20, 2006
"Their little girls (and their 'gifts') are male property, pure and simple. The sooner they understand that they only have one thing that's of value in a man's world, the better. And it belongs to one man until the day he turns it over to another."
This literally makes me feel ill.
posted by Zozo at 7:22 PM on April 20, 2006
This literally makes me feel ill.
posted by Zozo at 7:22 PM on April 20, 2006
*utterly squicked out at how icky this is* is exactly right.
No, Daddy doesn't own me, No, a husband isn't going to own me. No sex without Marriage; I don't fucking think so.
High Priest in my Home. WTF?
Oflinkey, thank you for an articulate, well-reasoned response. I'm just sputtering at how nasty this is.
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on April 20, 2006
No, Daddy doesn't own me, No, a husband isn't going to own me. No sex without Marriage; I don't fucking think so.
High Priest in my Home. WTF?
Oflinkey, thank you for an articulate, well-reasoned response. I'm just sputtering at how nasty this is.
posted by theora55 at 7:27 PM on April 20, 2006
it really is sick, and it makes you wonder why South Dakota didn't include an incest exemption in their abortion ban.
posted by amberglow at 7:29 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by amberglow at 7:29 PM on April 20, 2006
"I, (daughter’s name)’s father, choose before God to cover my daughter"
They do know what cover means, right?
posted by Hogshead at 7:31 PM on April 20, 2006
They do know what cover means, right?
posted by Hogshead at 7:31 PM on April 20, 2006
Ooh, we cherish our daughters as regal princesses, you betcha. We also masturbate bitterly and furiously while thinking about their tender, lithe bodies; so very unlike the slack, wrinkle-titted husks our wives have become. Those wives who once we adored and who, by dint of sheer exposure and familiarity saw through our carefully constructed deceptions and phoney macho fol-de-rol and came swiftly and inevitably to despise us, utterly. Oh daughter. Oh sweet, virginal, pristine daughter mine. How I worship you. How I worship the fantasy of you, and the fantasy of me, and the fantasy of how things might be so very, very different to harsh reality. Please shit in my hat.
posted by Decani at 7:36 PM on April 20, 2006 [3 favorites]
posted by Decani at 7:36 PM on April 20, 2006 [3 favorites]
I think we should go even further, and have the girls present their fathers with a bloodstained sheet after their wedding night...tastefully framed, perhaps, with a bible verse engraved on the frame. Then he'll KNOW the virginity he graciously allowed her husband to obtain/purchase was genuine.
And the whole "defend her with my shotgun from all them creepy boys!" thing? I don't find that sweet. I find that a good way to encourage your daughter to either fear all men or sneak around because that's the only way she can figure sex out for herself. Maybe you should teach her to be safe, know her own mind and not put up with any crap from a guy who's trying to pressure her. That's of a lot more use to her in the long run.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 PM on April 20, 2006
And the whole "defend her with my shotgun from all them creepy boys!" thing? I don't find that sweet. I find that a good way to encourage your daughter to either fear all men or sneak around because that's the only way she can figure sex out for herself. Maybe you should teach her to be safe, know her own mind and not put up with any crap from a guy who's trying to pressure her. That's of a lot more use to her in the long run.
posted by emjaybee at 7:38 PM on April 20, 2006
"Doctor Freud! Paging Doctor Freud to the analogy department! Doctor Freud!"
posted by Relay at 7:40 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by Relay at 7:40 PM on April 20, 2006
"Their little girls (and their 'gifts') are male property, pure and simple. The sooner they understand that they only have one thing that's of value in a man's world, the better. And it belongs to one man until the day he turns it over to another."
This literally makes me feel ill.
This is a little deceptive. The sentences quoted were written by the blogger critical of these viginity balls, as a way of speculating about what the underlying messge of the balls is. It's a rhetorical device, not anyone's stated opinion of a girl's value.
posted by tula at 7:43 PM on April 20, 2006
This literally makes me feel ill.
This is a little deceptive. The sentences quoted were written by the blogger critical of these viginity balls, as a way of speculating about what the underlying messge of the balls is. It's a rhetorical device, not anyone's stated opinion of a girl's value.
posted by tula at 7:43 PM on April 20, 2006
Playlist
My Heart Belongs To Daddy
Thank Heaven for Little Girls
Daddy's Hands
Theme from Secret Ceremony
And, of course, for the big finish:
Serge Gainsbourg's Lemon Incest (Un zeste de citron)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:44 PM on April 20, 2006
My Heart Belongs To Daddy
Thank Heaven for Little Girls
Daddy's Hands
Theme from Secret Ceremony
And, of course, for the big finish:
Serge Gainsbourg's Lemon Incest (Un zeste de citron)
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:44 PM on April 20, 2006
Yes my heart belongs to daddy
So I simply couldn't be bad
Yes I'm gonna marry daddy
Da-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ad
If you feel romantic laddy
Let me warn you right from the start
That my heart belongs to daddy
And my daddy belongs to my heart
posted by Nelson at 7:46 PM on April 20, 2006
So I simply couldn't be bad
Yes I'm gonna marry daddy
Da-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ad
If you feel romantic laddy
Let me warn you right from the start
That my heart belongs to daddy
And my daddy belongs to my heart
posted by Nelson at 7:46 PM on April 20, 2006
R.J. Eskow wrote a HuffPost column about this earlier in the week.
I thought this comment (in response to the column) summed up the situation well:
What's so weird about a prepubescent girl getting all dolled-up in a gown and going to a dance with her hands-on father so they may enjoy a special evening together that climaxes with both of them looking into each others eyes as she pledges her vagina to her daddy?"
posted by pruner at 7:48 PM on April 20, 2006
I thought this comment (in response to the column) summed up the situation well:
What's so weird about a prepubescent girl getting all dolled-up in a gown and going to a dance with her hands-on father so they may enjoy a special evening together that climaxes with both of them looking into each others eyes as she pledges her vagina to her daddy?"
posted by pruner at 7:48 PM on April 20, 2006
Playlist addendum:
Magdalena
"... come on, Magdalena... to your daddy, Baby... your mom will never know... come back to you daddy!... "
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:50 PM on April 20, 2006
Magdalena
"... come on, Magdalena... to your daddy, Baby... your mom will never know... come back to you daddy!... "
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:50 PM on April 20, 2006
Don't forget Brown Shoes Don't Make It
"We see in the back
Of the city hall mind
The dream of a girl about thirteen
Off with her clothes and into a bed
Where she tickles his fancy
All night long
His wife’s attending an orchid show
She squealed for a week to get him to go
But back in the bed his teen-age queen
Is rocking and rolling and acting obscene
[...]
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup
And strap her on again, oh baby
Smother that girl in chocolate syrup
And strap her on again
She’s my teen-age baby
She turns me on
I’d like to make her do a nasty
On the white house lawn
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup
And boogie ’til the cows come home"
posted by papakwanz at 7:56 PM on April 20, 2006
"We see in the back
Of the city hall mind
The dream of a girl about thirteen
Off with her clothes and into a bed
Where she tickles his fancy
All night long
His wife’s attending an orchid show
She squealed for a week to get him to go
But back in the bed his teen-age queen
Is rocking and rolling and acting obscene
[...]
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup
And strap her on again, oh baby
Smother that girl in chocolate syrup
And strap her on again
She’s my teen-age baby
She turns me on
I’d like to make her do a nasty
On the white house lawn
Smother my daughter in chocolate syrup
And boogie ’til the cows come home"
posted by papakwanz at 7:56 PM on April 20, 2006
Well jeez. If I'd known we were doing a compilation of creepy incesty songs, I would just have linked to "Johanna" (Sweeney Todd, Sondheim) in my first comment.
posted by booksandlibretti at 7:57 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by booksandlibretti at 7:57 PM on April 20, 2006
It is so irretrievably creepy that some girls' dads take that kind of interest in the state of their child's virginity.
posted by supercrayon at 8:07 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by supercrayon at 8:07 PM on April 20, 2006
Yeah, creepy. The whole "pledging my chastity to my father before marriage "just sounds so sexually dominating.
Do adult fathers usually get turned on by their hot teenage daughters. Obviously I understand not getting turned on by ugly daughters, but I have to wonder about hot daughters. I have a hard time imagining not getting turned on my a cute teenage girl.
I know brothers and sisters get "imprinted" during early childhood to not want to sleep with each other (along with any other kids in close proximity) but what about parents?
posted by delmoi at 8:16 PM on April 20, 2006
Do adult fathers usually get turned on by their hot teenage daughters. Obviously I understand not getting turned on by ugly daughters, but I have to wonder about hot daughters. I have a hard time imagining not getting turned on my a cute teenage girl.
I know brothers and sisters get "imprinted" during early childhood to not want to sleep with each other (along with any other kids in close proximity) but what about parents?
posted by delmoi at 8:16 PM on April 20, 2006
Her heart belongs to Jesus. But her velvet igloo? That's for daddy. And daddy likes!
/preview: Sorry for that.
posted by bardic at 8:21 PM on April 20, 2006
/preview: Sorry for that.
posted by bardic at 8:21 PM on April 20, 2006
Hey, they could introduce her to their creepy old freinds as well.
posted by Artw at 8:42 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by Artw at 8:42 PM on April 20, 2006
From the last link: some of the daughters were as young as 4
If it weren't creepy enough, the dads who are evidently preoccupied with their toddlers' sexuality makes me really, really queasy.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:11 PM on April 20, 2006
If it weren't creepy enough, the dads who are evidently preoccupied with their toddlers' sexuality makes me really, really queasy.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:11 PM on April 20, 2006
You think that's creepy, just imagine what it was like in the back seat of the limo later.
Iiiii said it.
posted by deusdiabolus at 9:34 PM on April 20, 2006
Iiiii said it.
posted by deusdiabolus at 9:34 PM on April 20, 2006
Well, the "balls" tag says it all, but . . .
I imagine that some of the people involved in this feel kinda funny about the fact that these events are called "balls" but would never bring it up for fear of appearing that they're thinking less-than-pure thoughts. Ew.
posted by treepour at 9:37 PM on April 20, 2006
I imagine that some of the people involved in this feel kinda funny about the fact that these events are called "balls" but would never bring it up for fear of appearing that they're thinking less-than-pure thoughts. Ew.
posted by treepour at 9:37 PM on April 20, 2006
Why is this only for daughters?
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:51 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:51 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
I PREFER MY PURITY AND MY BALLS KEPT SEPARATE, THANK YOU.
posted by stenseng at 9:52 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by stenseng at 9:52 PM on April 20, 2006
My balls are pure enough thankyou.
Purity has not been asssesed by the Southern Baptist Convention. Not intended to cure anyone of virginity, femino-oedipal-complex or premature exaculation/scatophilia. May cause herpes and speaking in tongues.
posted by lalochezia at 10:04 PM on April 20, 2006
Purity has not been asssesed by the Southern Baptist Convention. Not intended to cure anyone of virginity, femino-oedipal-complex or premature exaculation/scatophilia. May cause herpes and speaking in tongues.
posted by lalochezia at 10:04 PM on April 20, 2006
You know what's awesome about this? Somewhere in the heart of Saudi Arabia, somewhere in Tehran or some remote corner of Afghanistan, some cleric has just sentenced a woman to death by stoning for having the eye-slit in her burqa be half an inch too wide. Congratulating himself on a job well-done, he sits in front of his computer and checks the infidel news media from the decadent West. He sees this story, and then he stands up and kicks himself in the ass for not having thought of it first.
The USA: Our Bug-Eyed, Religiously-Demented Wackaloons Are Creepier Than Your Bug-Eyed, Religiously-Demented Wackaloons.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:18 PM on April 20, 2006
The USA: Our Bug-Eyed, Religiously-Demented Wackaloons Are Creepier Than Your Bug-Eyed, Religiously-Demented Wackaloons.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:18 PM on April 20, 2006
Huh, I guess after years of studying what happens when children lack a father, we need to assess what can happen when girls dont have a mom (or at least one with boundaries). I hope each of these girls has a _serious_ conversation with an aunt or older cousin about healthy sexuality and how to deal with a dad who even considers "Purity Balls" when raising a daughter.
How wise would it be for forty year-old moms to bring their nervous, tux-clad third-grade sons to a "dance", and take an oath stating that Mommy owns Jimmy's dingus until he meets a suitable, well-off girl who is deceitful enough to get Mommy's approval?
posted by Joybooth at 10:33 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
How wise would it be for forty year-old moms to bring their nervous, tux-clad third-grade sons to a "dance", and take an oath stating that Mommy owns Jimmy's dingus until he meets a suitable, well-off girl who is deceitful enough to get Mommy's approval?
posted by Joybooth at 10:33 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
Of course, these creeps are easy to recognize as such. But I've been stunned at how many people I know with daughters -- even toddler or infant daughters -- who just jump right in with the line of "jokes" about the shotgun they're going to buy when she gets to be a teenager, heh heh. Frankly, I find that creepy as well. (Sorry tippiedog)
Never, ever have I heard any father (or mother, for that matter) all exercised about their son's future virginity.
I can honestly say that if I had a daughter I wouldn't want to know much about what they're out doing -- but, honestly, I'd prefer that they learn by doing (safely of course). I just don't think of sex as shameful, scary or inappropriate for teenagers. I also think marrying as a virgin is a very bad idea.
posted by argybarg at 10:44 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
Never, ever have I heard any father (or mother, for that matter) all exercised about their son's future virginity.
I can honestly say that if I had a daughter I wouldn't want to know much about what they're out doing -- but, honestly, I'd prefer that they learn by doing (safely of course). I just don't think of sex as shameful, scary or inappropriate for teenagers. I also think marrying as a virgin is a very bad idea.
posted by argybarg at 10:44 PM on April 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
Velvet tunnel, I love it.
This isn't just about sex, the whole "owning my daughter's heart" thread of it encompasses much more than the physical act. I'd actually be curious if law enforcement might use these kinds of gatherings to take notes on possible future issues.
I'm guessing the little flower of innocence still has a green light for the oral and anal variety of sin? If so, rock on creepy Dads!
posted by Talanvor at 10:53 PM on April 20, 2006
This isn't just about sex, the whole "owning my daughter's heart" thread of it encompasses much more than the physical act. I'd actually be curious if law enforcement might use these kinds of gatherings to take notes on possible future issues.
I'm guessing the little flower of innocence still has a green light for the oral and anal variety of sin? If so, rock on creepy Dads!
posted by Talanvor at 10:53 PM on April 20, 2006
Delmoi - what is the brother/sister "imprinting" you're talking about? I'd often wondered about that, but I've never heard of that process. I have only same-gender siblings, and sometimes find the brother/sister relationship a bit creepy.
posted by piers at 11:01 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by piers at 11:01 PM on April 20, 2006
I think it's interesting reading to see a lot of people just catching up on the sort of weirdness that goes on in contemporary pop Evangelicalism. When I was a "born-again" Christian in my late teens and early twenties, this book was the purity meme of the moment going around, and all the young single women were swearing off dating entirely. Even to be in a room alone with a young woman was considered an invitation to disaster, and enough to get people wagging their fingers at you in righteous indignation.
And guess what happens? You suddenly, for whatever reason, wake up from your religion-induced coma in the middle of your twenties, say, and realize that you've never had the chance to develop normal adult dating relationships, and you end up a fumbling moron in the bedroom department who can't get laid to save his life... Yeah, thanks Jesus, thanks a lot ...
posted by bcveen at 11:04 PM on April 20, 2006
And guess what happens? You suddenly, for whatever reason, wake up from your religion-induced coma in the middle of your twenties, say, and realize that you've never had the chance to develop normal adult dating relationships, and you end up a fumbling moron in the bedroom department who can't get laid to save his life... Yeah, thanks Jesus, thanks a lot ...
posted by bcveen at 11:04 PM on April 20, 2006
Intelligent, realistic fathers should be prepared for their daughters to do the nasty with hooligans behind daddies back and, accordingly, advise those daughters about protection.
If *my* teenage daughters are going to be doing the nasty with hooligans, I want them doing it at home, in the comfort and safety of their own bedrooms -- not in some seedy apartment where there may be three or four other hooligans ready to hold them down and take turns after the first hooligan has finished, or in some parked up car where the cops can come along and abuse and humiliate them a la Bad Lieutenant.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:08 PM on April 20, 2006
If *my* teenage daughters are going to be doing the nasty with hooligans, I want them doing it at home, in the comfort and safety of their own bedrooms -- not in some seedy apartment where there may be three or four other hooligans ready to hold them down and take turns after the first hooligan has finished, or in some parked up car where the cops can come along and abuse and humiliate them a la Bad Lieutenant.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:08 PM on April 20, 2006
At least you get to blame Jesus for that bcveen, some of us aren't so lucky.
posted by Talanvor at 11:08 PM on April 20, 2006
posted by Talanvor at 11:08 PM on April 20, 2006
Delmoi - what is the brother/sister "imprinting" you're talking about? I'd often wondered about that, but I've never heard of that process. I have only same-gender siblings, and sometimes find the brother/sister relationship a bit creepy.
It's called the westermark effect.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 AM on April 21, 2006
It's called the westermark effect.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 AM on April 21, 2006
Fa la fa lee, she ain't heavy she's a brother to me
What I need, she can't be
Nature, nurture, who's to say?
But still fa la, fa lee
Anything between us is a felony
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:54 AM on April 21, 2006
What I need, she can't be
Nature, nurture, who's to say?
But still fa la, fa lee
Anything between us is a felony
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:54 AM on April 21, 2006
I think I might have seen some videos of the afterparty available for download on eMule.
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:03 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:03 AM on April 21, 2006
So many commenters fixated on the sexual practices of the aborigines. Creepy. Read Margaret Mead for the porn value much?
posted by jfuller at 5:16 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by jfuller at 5:16 AM on April 21, 2006
I, (daughter’s name)’s father, choose before God to cover my daughter as her authority and protection in the area of purity.
It's official. I will now start saying "area of purity" instead of "batching suit zone".
posted by PantsOfSCIENCE at 5:49 AM on April 21, 2006
It's official. I will now start saying "area of purity" instead of "batching suit zone".
posted by PantsOfSCIENCE at 5:49 AM on April 21, 2006
Christians can be soo creepy & sick! So what are the odd that psychologists find the father-daughter incest rate doulbes for these folks?
posted by jeffburdges at 6:27 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by jeffburdges at 6:27 AM on April 21, 2006
Say it with me kids:
"Patriarchal control of women inevitably involves the fetishization of their virginity."
posted by MasonDixon at 6:44 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
"Patriarchal control of women inevitably involves the fetishization of their virginity."
posted by MasonDixon at 6:44 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
People who ritualize virginity are weird.
Now, now. Does this man look "weird"?
posted by Creosote at 6:56 AM on April 21, 2006
Now, now. Does this man look "weird"?
posted by Creosote at 6:56 AM on April 21, 2006
/me scrapes up the little pieces of his brain off the walls and floor.
I'm trying really hard to not be judgmental, but I really think my circuits have been completely fried. And the second paragraph of this comment is immediately where my mind went as well.
posted by Fezboy! at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2006
I'm trying really hard to not be judgmental, but I really think my circuits have been completely fried. And the second paragraph of this comment is immediately where my mind went as well.
posted by Fezboy! at 7:21 AM on April 21, 2006
I initially read this as "purty balls" and thought it was a Brokeback Mountain reference.
posted by longbaugh at 7:23 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by longbaugh at 7:23 AM on April 21, 2006
...Now we have Rep. Joel Dykstra (R-Lincoln County) explaining what he thinks about the lack of a rape and incest exception. This appeared in the Two Rivers Times, which unfortunately does not have an online version to which I can link:
“I think ‘rape and incest’ is a buzzword,” said Rep. Joel Dykstra about not including those conditions in the abortion bill. “It’s a bit of a throwaway line and not everybody who says that really understands what that means. How are you going to define that?” ...
posted by amberglow at 7:32 AM on April 21, 2006
“I think ‘rape and incest’ is a buzzword,” said Rep. Joel Dykstra about not including those conditions in the abortion bill. “It’s a bit of a throwaway line and not everybody who says that really understands what that means. How are you going to define that?” ...
posted by amberglow at 7:32 AM on April 21, 2006
also found from that site: A man has caused an uproar in this southwestern Oklahoma town by advertising in an unusual manner that he'd like to pay for a virgin to be his bride.
A sign that 45-year-old Michael Thelemann posted in his yard Sunday said that he'll pay $1,000 for a virgin bride between the ages of 12 and 24. ...
posted by amberglow at 7:35 AM on April 21, 2006
A sign that 45-year-old Michael Thelemann posted in his yard Sunday said that he'll pay $1,000 for a virgin bride between the ages of 12 and 24. ...
posted by amberglow at 7:35 AM on April 21, 2006
Ick. Who wants a virgin bride? Talk about boooring.
posted by NationalKato at 7:52 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by NationalKato at 7:52 AM on April 21, 2006
I have only same-gender siblings, and sometimes find the brother/sister relationship a bit creepy.
posted by piers at 2:01 AM EST on April 21 [!]
In my case it is "familiarity breeds contempt." My brother is an exceedingly charming, handsome, sun-streaked blonde with the kind of hard body you only achieve after 30 years of surfing every day. On the other hand, I despise him for being a dumbass lunkhead who has caused our mother endless grief. Sex with him? God, I can barely tolerate talking to him.
There are two things that make this whole purity ball thing repulsive: the American ideal of youthful beauty elevating a teenager as the zenith in sexuality and the idea of a father obsessing over his daughter's vagina to the point of dressing up, buying jewelry, and spending an evening celebrating his "possession" of this vagina. I really doubt most teenage girls would want their fathers thinking so much about their vaginas and the penises that will eventually enter them.
From the first link: Think of it from their perspective: My daddy thinks I'm beautiful in my own unique way. My daddy is treating me with respect and honor. My daddy has taken time to be silly, and even made a fool of himself, learning how to dance. My daddy really loves me!"
Yes, because the only possible way a father can show his love is by reminding his daughter her vagina belongs to him while dressing up and dancing with her. Taking her to a ball game, teaching her to ride a bike, reading her a book, taking an interest in her homework-- none of these things can convey quite that feeling of being looooved.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:10 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by piers at 2:01 AM EST on April 21 [!]
In my case it is "familiarity breeds contempt." My brother is an exceedingly charming, handsome, sun-streaked blonde with the kind of hard body you only achieve after 30 years of surfing every day. On the other hand, I despise him for being a dumbass lunkhead who has caused our mother endless grief. Sex with him? God, I can barely tolerate talking to him.
There are two things that make this whole purity ball thing repulsive: the American ideal of youthful beauty elevating a teenager as the zenith in sexuality and the idea of a father obsessing over his daughter's vagina to the point of dressing up, buying jewelry, and spending an evening celebrating his "possession" of this vagina. I really doubt most teenage girls would want their fathers thinking so much about their vaginas and the penises that will eventually enter them.
From the first link: Think of it from their perspective: My daddy thinks I'm beautiful in my own unique way. My daddy is treating me with respect and honor. My daddy has taken time to be silly, and even made a fool of himself, learning how to dance. My daddy really loves me!"
Yes, because the only possible way a father can show his love is by reminding his daughter her vagina belongs to him while dressing up and dancing with her. Taking her to a ball game, teaching her to ride a bike, reading her a book, taking an interest in her homework-- none of these things can convey quite that feeling of being looooved.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:10 AM on April 21, 2006
I wonder if my lesbian 16 y/o and I would find welcome there. . .
posted by Danf at 8:10 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by Danf at 8:10 AM on April 21, 2006
My wife is a regular reader/poster on the infamous Datalounge. They had a thread on this a few days ago and after moving my hysterically laughing spouse away from the desk, I took a look. And now I must say that Metafilter cannot compete with a bunch of witty queens when it comes to tearing apart insanity such as this.
posted by Ber at 8:12 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by Ber at 8:12 AM on April 21, 2006
"Patriarchal control of women inevitably involves the fetishization of their virginity."
Now, that needn't be so. Patriarchal control of women is perfectly capable of existing in a society where men have convinced women, due to their easily exploitable desire for emotional intimacy, that they have a duty to make themselves available to be used and discarded according to some man's whim.
I echo the points about the strong undercurrent of creepiness associated with this practice, but I really don't think it's any more indicative of denigrative male control of women than what I saw girls go through during my own adolescence circa the mid-to-late 90s.
Biblical mumbo-jumbo aside, I see this as a wrong-headed but good-faith response to the fact that many girls today are still not being equipped with the tools and the esteem necessary to deal with junior league serial seducers. Most acquire them, if indeed they ever do, through painful experiences that should never be necessary.
Of course, the proper approach is to make sure they can make intelligent, informed and honest decisions about how to live their sexual lives; that they realize their value as human beings, both sexual and otherwise. But our society sells girls short in that regard, and always has. And however creepy this ball may be--though I really don't buy that this is about crypto-incestuous longing more than profound paternal fear--at least these people seem to recognize the problem. The solution produced by their evangelical-reactionary reality distortion filter is no damned good at all, but I can't entirely condemn them for it.
posted by Makoto at 8:16 AM on April 21, 2006
Now, that needn't be so. Patriarchal control of women is perfectly capable of existing in a society where men have convinced women, due to their easily exploitable desire for emotional intimacy, that they have a duty to make themselves available to be used and discarded according to some man's whim.
I echo the points about the strong undercurrent of creepiness associated with this practice, but I really don't think it's any more indicative of denigrative male control of women than what I saw girls go through during my own adolescence circa the mid-to-late 90s.
Biblical mumbo-jumbo aside, I see this as a wrong-headed but good-faith response to the fact that many girls today are still not being equipped with the tools and the esteem necessary to deal with junior league serial seducers. Most acquire them, if indeed they ever do, through painful experiences that should never be necessary.
Of course, the proper approach is to make sure they can make intelligent, informed and honest decisions about how to live their sexual lives; that they realize their value as human beings, both sexual and otherwise. But our society sells girls short in that regard, and always has. And however creepy this ball may be--though I really don't buy that this is about crypto-incestuous longing more than profound paternal fear--at least these people seem to recognize the problem. The solution produced by their evangelical-reactionary reality distortion filter is no damned good at all, but I can't entirely condemn them for it.
posted by Makoto at 8:16 AM on April 21, 2006
Yum, children raised by creepy fetishist sex-obsessed puritan mysoginists. Look at the bright side, that's the kind of combo that keeps therapists in business! I hear the sound of glasses clicking in celebration at the APA.
Seriously now, are there any psychological studies on the long-term effect of this kind of 'education'?
posted by funambulist at 8:33 AM on April 21, 2006
Seriously now, are there any psychological studies on the long-term effect of this kind of 'education'?
posted by funambulist at 8:33 AM on April 21, 2006
re: Westermark effect: this from an article in the Guardian:
In one ongoing study of children raised on Kiryat Yedidim, an Israeli kibbutz, between the 1950s and late 1960s, US and Israeli anthropologists were amazed to discover that the sabras - boys and girls of almost identical ages from different families - did not, as their parents hoped and anticipated, marry each other. As one of the first researchers, Melford Spiro, observed in 1958, the intimacy between these children, especially between the ages of seven and 12, could not have been greater. Not only did they shower, sleep and run around naked together and explore each other's bodies, as they approached puberty they began openly to play sex games, including intimate kissing, fondling and simulated, or attempted, sexual intercourse. Despite this climate of sexual freedom, by their mid-teens the girls, especially, displayed signs of shame and became hostile towards the boys, to the point of insisting on having unisex showers. At around 15, the girls became attracted to older students and young unmarried men in the kibbutz, admitting that they saw their peers as "brothers".
In a second phase of the study, when these children had grown up, it emerged that not only had no marriages taken place between any of the sabras from Kiryat Yedidim, and three other kibbutzim, but neither was there a single reported incident of sexual intercourse. Eventually, another team of sociologists analysed the records of almost all known kibbutz marriages, totalling nearly 3,000: in only 16 cases did members of the same peer group marry - and in these cases the couple had met only after the age of six.
posted by dreamsign at 8:36 AM on April 21, 2006
In one ongoing study of children raised on Kiryat Yedidim, an Israeli kibbutz, between the 1950s and late 1960s, US and Israeli anthropologists were amazed to discover that the sabras - boys and girls of almost identical ages from different families - did not, as their parents hoped and anticipated, marry each other. As one of the first researchers, Melford Spiro, observed in 1958, the intimacy between these children, especially between the ages of seven and 12, could not have been greater. Not only did they shower, sleep and run around naked together and explore each other's bodies, as they approached puberty they began openly to play sex games, including intimate kissing, fondling and simulated, or attempted, sexual intercourse. Despite this climate of sexual freedom, by their mid-teens the girls, especially, displayed signs of shame and became hostile towards the boys, to the point of insisting on having unisex showers. At around 15, the girls became attracted to older students and young unmarried men in the kibbutz, admitting that they saw their peers as "brothers".
In a second phase of the study, when these children had grown up, it emerged that not only had no marriages taken place between any of the sabras from Kiryat Yedidim, and three other kibbutzim, but neither was there a single reported incident of sexual intercourse. Eventually, another team of sociologists analysed the records of almost all known kibbutz marriages, totalling nearly 3,000: in only 16 cases did members of the same peer group marry - and in these cases the couple had met only after the age of six.
posted by dreamsign at 8:36 AM on April 21, 2006
"Purity balls" -- the term just makes me giggle. To keep from crying.
posted by scratch at 8:40 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by scratch at 8:40 AM on April 21, 2006
From the Heart to Heart Link:
The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it. Inside will be a small note that had been placed in the heart on the day you made the covenant. That note can say something like, “I do not know your name or what you even look like, but this is my promise to save myself for you this day. Love, Melanie.”
Dear Mr. Wonderful:
My Daddy carried around the Key to My Heart for many years. He never used his key, he kept it for you. You get to use The Key! Isn't this exciting!! I can't wait! I told my Care Bear last night that I hope Daddy won't lose the Key, because then My Heart will never open!!! We laughed and laughed until mommy came in with a wooden spoon and spanked me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:34 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
The key and lock are actually functional and your son-in-law will place the key in the heart to open it. Inside will be a small note that had been placed in the heart on the day you made the covenant. That note can say something like, “I do not know your name or what you even look like, but this is my promise to save myself for you this day. Love, Melanie.”
Dear Mr. Wonderful:
My Daddy carried around the Key to My Heart for many years. He never used his key, he kept it for you. You get to use The Key! Isn't this exciting!! I can't wait! I told my Care Bear last night that I hope Daddy won't lose the Key, because then My Heart will never open!!! We laughed and laughed until mommy came in with a wooden spoon and spanked me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 9:34 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
Key to my heart is the thing that gets me - why bother pretending it actually means heart, just be truthful about it.
If heart means vagina then I hope none of these girls ever experiences a heart attack or a broken heart. I am now off to watch a video of a couple of hot young things having a "heart to heart".
posted by longbaugh at 9:39 AM on April 21, 2006
If heart means vagina then I hope none of these girls ever experiences a heart attack or a broken heart. I am now off to watch a video of a couple of hot young things having a "heart to heart".
posted by longbaugh at 9:39 AM on April 21, 2006
Ooh, we cherish our daughters as regal princesses, you betcha. We also masturbate bitterly and furiously while thinking about their tender, lithe bodies; so very unlike the slack, wrinkle-titted husks our wives have become. Those wives who once we adored and who, by dint of sheer exposure and familiarity saw through our carefully constructed deceptions and phoney macho fol-de-rol and came swiftly and inevitably to despise us, utterly. Oh daughter. Oh sweet, virginal, pristine daughter mine. How I worship you. How I worship the fantasy of you, and the fantasy of me, and the fantasy of how things might be so very, very different to harsh reality.
This just bears repeating, for it is genius.
posted by jokeefe at 9:46 AM on April 21, 2006
This just bears repeating, for it is genius.
posted by jokeefe at 9:46 AM on April 21, 2006
How wise would it be for forty year-old moms to bring their nervous, tux-clad third-grade sons to a "dance", and take an oath stating that Mommy owns Jimmy's dingus until he meets a suitable, well-off girl who is deceitful enough to get Mommy's approval?
And this bears repeating, as well.
posted by jokeefe at 9:50 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
And this bears repeating, as well.
posted by jokeefe at 9:50 AM on April 21, 2006 [1 favorite]
I wonder if Papa Joe Simpson took Jessica to one of these.
posted by SisterHavana at 9:50 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by SisterHavana at 9:50 AM on April 21, 2006
I don't know what bothers me more, the subtext of these balls, so the leap in this discussion to ownership of vaginas. Buddha on a Biscuit, talk about a culture divide.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:13 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by KirkJobSluder at 10:13 AM on April 21, 2006
slack, wrinkle-titted husks
Just rolls right off my ascerbic tongue.
posted by NationalKato at 10:14 AM on April 21, 2006
Just rolls right off my ascerbic tongue.
posted by NationalKato at 10:14 AM on April 21, 2006
These things are very mainstream in the Heartland, and have been for a while now.
The church I used to attend has a public service every year in front of the entire congregation where teenage girls stand in front and vow to abstain until marriage. But, they receive a thing that looks like a wedding ring from their fathers. The Oath goes something like they pledge unto their fathers their purity, until they marry. Under God.
Denomination = Southern Baptist
I've also harbored the belief these were psuedo-incestual rituals. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks that, because as I said above, this is quite "normal" in the Bible Belt. I don't see how, as the sight of a 45 year old man "marrying" his 14 year old daughter is as abnormal as you can get.
Noticeably, there is no similar ceremony where the boys pledge their peters to their mother. That's because no good Southern Baptist woman wants a peter, be it her son's or her husband's.
Note that The Oath did not seem to "take" with many of the young things I had the pleasure of courting, or the young things my friends courted. Or perhaps I'm just more persuasive than their daddy and Jesus. But it does tend to make them highly embarrassed and ashamed, and makes a continued sexual relationship very difficult.
Man, you've not lived until you've been in the throws of wild teenage sex, with a girl you've had sex with dozens of times, who suddenly breaks down in tears because Jesus doesn't approve. That really makes you feel like a sexual Tyrannosaurus.
*sigh*
I can't begin to tell you how glad I am to be past those days, and how glad I was to meet a good backsliding girl.
People who make sex=guilt deserve a firing squad.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:23 AM on April 21, 2006
The church I used to attend has a public service every year in front of the entire congregation where teenage girls stand in front and vow to abstain until marriage. But, they receive a thing that looks like a wedding ring from their fathers. The Oath goes something like they pledge unto their fathers their purity, until they marry. Under God.
Denomination = Southern Baptist
I've also harbored the belief these were psuedo-incestual rituals. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks that, because as I said above, this is quite "normal" in the Bible Belt. I don't see how, as the sight of a 45 year old man "marrying" his 14 year old daughter is as abnormal as you can get.
Noticeably, there is no similar ceremony where the boys pledge their peters to their mother. That's because no good Southern Baptist woman wants a peter, be it her son's or her husband's.
Note that The Oath did not seem to "take" with many of the young things I had the pleasure of courting, or the young things my friends courted. Or perhaps I'm just more persuasive than their daddy and Jesus. But it does tend to make them highly embarrassed and ashamed, and makes a continued sexual relationship very difficult.
Man, you've not lived until you've been in the throws of wild teenage sex, with a girl you've had sex with dozens of times, who suddenly breaks down in tears because Jesus doesn't approve. That really makes you feel like a sexual Tyrannosaurus.
*sigh*
I can't begin to tell you how glad I am to be past those days, and how glad I was to meet a good backsliding girl.
People who make sex=guilt deserve a firing squad.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:23 AM on April 21, 2006
I just asked our office assistant what she thought of this and she replied with, "My father gave me a ring when I was thirteen after a large, expensive dinner that symbolized the exact same thing."
It's no Purity Party, but is it really that widespread?
posted by NationalKato at 10:47 AM on April 21, 2006
It's no Purity Party, but is it really that widespread?
posted by NationalKato at 10:47 AM on April 21, 2006
On preview of Ynoxas' comment: I suppose it is.
posted by NationalKato at 10:50 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by NationalKato at 10:50 AM on April 21, 2006
pure fuckity
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:24 AM on April 21, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 11:24 AM on April 21, 2006
Key to my heart is the thing that gets me - why bother pretending it actually means heart, just be truthful about it.
Heart never means heart. Key to your blood pump? If we take the sentiment seriously, it is at best a key to the head. How about a voodoo-like doll of the daughter, with a keyhole protruding from the face like a gaping mouth? Too suggestive? (not suggestive enough?)
Man, you've not lived until you've been in the throws of wild teenage sex, with a girl you've had sex with dozens of times, who suddenly breaks down in tears because Jesus doesn't approve.
Yeah. Not fun in your twenties, either.
posted by dreamsign at 11:52 AM on April 21, 2006
Heart never means heart. Key to your blood pump? If we take the sentiment seriously, it is at best a key to the head. How about a voodoo-like doll of the daughter, with a keyhole protruding from the face like a gaping mouth? Too suggestive? (not suggestive enough?)
Man, you've not lived until you've been in the throws of wild teenage sex, with a girl you've had sex with dozens of times, who suddenly breaks down in tears because Jesus doesn't approve.
Yeah. Not fun in your twenties, either.
posted by dreamsign at 11:52 AM on April 21, 2006
How does a hole protrude?
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:03 PM on April 21, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:03 PM on April 21, 2006
That's the "silver ring thing" ynoxaS, paid for by our federal tax dollars, thank you very much Bushco.
What a bunch of damn perverts! And hiding it under "faith" or "concern"! And let me echo what someone else said, what about the young boys!?!? Shouldn't they be equally concerned with their purity? Mommas unite! Take your son to a perverted ceremony and warp him for life!!
Dads that REALLY want to help their young daughters survive to adulthood need to read the Ophelia books. Go to Amazon, select books with Ophelia as the search criteria and the first two or three should be required reading.
posted by nofundy at 12:44 PM on April 21, 2006
What a bunch of damn perverts! And hiding it under "faith" or "concern"! And let me echo what someone else said, what about the young boys!?!? Shouldn't they be equally concerned with their purity? Mommas unite! Take your son to a perverted ceremony and warp him for life!!
Dads that REALLY want to help their young daughters survive to adulthood need to read the Ophelia books. Go to Amazon, select books with Ophelia as the search criteria and the first two or three should be required reading.
posted by nofundy at 12:44 PM on April 21, 2006
Jesus that's sick. I can't imagine trying to psychically dominate anyone like that much less my daughter.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:18 PM on April 21, 2006
posted by Smedleyman at 4:18 PM on April 21, 2006
There is no other word for it, these people are just weird. No wonder there are so many fucked up kids these days.
posted by rafterman at 11:55 PM on April 21, 2006
posted by rafterman at 11:55 PM on April 21, 2006
Apparently there is some special chastity jewelry available for man and girl to exhange in the covenant ceremony:
You mean, this?
Be the belle of the ball, wear your ballsies.
posted by NewBornHippy at 6:35 AM on April 22, 2006
You mean, this?
Be the belle of the ball, wear your ballsies.
posted by NewBornHippy at 6:35 AM on April 22, 2006
Hopefully, someday these freaks will get their rhetoric knotted up enough that they cut out procreation entirely, leaving them Darw-owned.
posted by modernerd at 8:26 AM on April 22, 2006
posted by modernerd at 8:26 AM on April 22, 2006
"Their little girls (and their 'gifts') are male property, pure and simple. The sooner they understand that they only have one thing that's of value in a man's world, the better. And it belongs to one man until the day he turns it over to another."
This proves that they are just neanderthals aping devotion. Anyone who sees another person as property is themself degraded. If I ever need spiritual advice and my choice is between these nuts and a coked up firebug, you can be sure the advice I get won't be tainted by the belief that a daughter is the *property* of her father (or any man).
Also to the mindset of these people, I think it is sad that these men believe that women have only sex to offer. Although some men (apparently these included) are too afraid of their emotions to share anything more with a lady, for some of us there is more.
This is the kind of thing that I remember about christ-wingers when they are on tv telling me that they know god's will and I better kneel down and obey. That and the whole using-christianity-as-the-excuse-for-slavery.
Pre-emptive strike on trolls: I don't lump all christians together. Take a deep breath. One more. Now go play outside.
posted by modernerd at 8:39 AM on April 22, 2006
This proves that they are just neanderthals aping devotion. Anyone who sees another person as property is themself degraded. If I ever need spiritual advice and my choice is between these nuts and a coked up firebug, you can be sure the advice I get won't be tainted by the belief that a daughter is the *property* of her father (or any man).
Also to the mindset of these people, I think it is sad that these men believe that women have only sex to offer. Although some men (apparently these included) are too afraid of their emotions to share anything more with a lady, for some of us there is more.
This is the kind of thing that I remember about christ-wingers when they are on tv telling me that they know god's will and I better kneel down and obey. That and the whole using-christianity-as-the-excuse-for-slavery.
Pre-emptive strike on trolls: I don't lump all christians together. Take a deep breath. One more. Now go play outside.
posted by modernerd at 8:39 AM on April 22, 2006
Anyone who sees another person as property is themself degraded.
!!!
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:17 AM on April 22, 2006
!!!
posted by sonofsamiam at 10:17 AM on April 22, 2006
Anyone who sees another person as property is themself degraded.
I think my quotes file is the only thing I miss about usenet.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:34 PM on April 22, 2006
I think my quotes file is the only thing I miss about usenet.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:34 PM on April 22, 2006
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(you know, behind daddy's back)
posted by shnoz-gobblin at 6:13 PM on April 20, 2006