Carlos Santana - Europa - Live

September 10, 2006 6:29 PM

Europa (Earth's Cry, Heaven's Smile, YouTube...)
posted by persona non grata (29 comments total)

nothing against santana, but come on...
posted by es_de_bah at 6:42 PM on September 10, 2006

One of the most over-rated guitarists of all time. See "Variations On The Carlos Santana Chord Progression" by Frank Zappa for more detail. Oh yeah, crappy one link you tube etc..
posted by doctor_negative at 6:44 PM on September 10, 2006

Good lord.... my momma used to say "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all!"... methinks that someone ought to climb back under their rock...

Nice link, made me boot up itunes and listen to a little more Santana..
posted by HuronBob at 6:48 PM on September 10, 2006

when did this website become Crooks and Liars? This is piffle.
posted by parmanparman at 6:57 PM on September 10, 2006

Could someone tell me what this "YouTube" thing is? It sounds fascinating.
posted by milnak at 7:01 PM on September 10, 2006

80's fluff at its worst (sorry, Tom Coster).
posted by whozyerdaddy at 7:28 PM on September 10, 2006

All these videos are yours, but leave Europa alone.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:36 PM on September 10, 2006 [2 favorites]

Wow, tough crowd today.

Santana's never had the technical "wow factor" of Yngwie/McLaughlin/Gatton/Kottke or dozens of others I could name, nor the stylistic breadth of a Zappa. That doesn't diminish his mastery over the kind of slow-burn, bluesy melodic stuff he specialises in, though. I mean, he managed to make Journey sound like mystical psychedelic shamans and Rob Thomas sound like a Latin sex god, that definitely takes talent.
posted by arto at 7:41 PM on September 10, 2006

doctor_negative: "One of the most over-rated guitarists of all time. See "Variations On The Carlos Santana Chord Progression" by Frank Zappa for more detail."

You're confusing things a bit. Carlos Santana had better tone and sense than any other guitarist of his generation, and I'm including Hendrix in there. Plenty of people could play faster, but none could play better. Zappa's point was that Santana couldn't write songs for shit, and consistently used the same chords. His quality was shown in the fact that he made his songs sound interesting anyhow.

Frank Zappa, on the other hand, was about the opposite. Interesting chords (some of the time, although he's overrated), but shitty, shitty, shitty guitarist. What a fucking noodler. Stripped-down blues scales that are played as fast as possible, without any sort of harmonic enrichment whatsoever. Ugh.
posted by koeselitz at 7:50 PM on September 10, 2006

so...angry...right now...
posted by riotgrrl69 at 8:04 PM on September 10, 2006

Frank Zappa's IMDb page - the nexus of all koeselitz considers shitty
posted by riotgrrl69 at 8:05 PM on September 10, 2006

Geez, calm down. I *like* Frank Zappa. 'Hot Rats' is one of my favorite things. But people get irrational about him. Besides, I was just trying to turn things around; Santana is not bad, even if it's cool to hate him for being 'weird.'

Good fucking god. I don't know anybody who listens to Zappa for his guitar playing. When was the last time you listened to 'Shut up and play yer guitar' all the way through?
posted by koeselitz at 8:18 PM on September 10, 2006

...and besides, I'm just a stupid fucking guy on the web anyway. If you let people like me get you down, you're probably making a big mistake. No?
posted by koeselitz at 8:21 PM on September 10, 2006

koeselitz, I'll grant you Santana has good tone but wanking the same riff over and over again for the duration of what is frequently a 20 minute song, is not good guitar playing. The strength of Santana is his back up band who are all generally much better musicians than he is. As for Zappa being a shitty guitarist, saying it three times doesn't make it true.
posted by doctor_negative at 9:07 PM on September 10, 2006

The fact that Zappa is a great musician doesn't necessarily imply that he is a great guitarist.

koeselitz is more right than wrong IMO.
posted by Ynoxas at 9:45 PM on September 10, 2006

What this thread needs.... is more GUITAR.

Roy Buchanan and Albert Collins - Further On Down The Road
Roy Buchanan - When A Guitar Plays The Blues
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Voodoo Chile (Slight Return)
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood
Cream - Crossroads
Eric Clapton - Badge
Prince et al. - While My Guitar Gently Weeps
The Allman Brothers Band - Jessica
Kyuss - 50 Million Year Trip (Downside Up)
Kyuss - Freedom Run
Jethro Tull - Aqualung
Isley Brothers - That Lady
Jimi Hendrix - Machine Gun
Led Zeppelin - Achilles Last Stand
Funkadelic - Red Hot Mama
posted by euphorb at 9:54 PM on September 10, 2006

Rhett Butler playing two guitars at the same time. Santana can blow me.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:05 PM on September 10, 2006

Tuck Andress does it much, much better, all by himself.
posted by paulsc at 10:11 PM on September 10, 2006

Oh, and I saw Tito Puente a few times, crack an audience up, bitching about how Carlos Santana got famous on Oye Como Va, and how people always chided him (Tito) for trying to "cash in" on "that Santana song." Only Tito could really make that story a belly laugh, but hey, you gotta have something to take one of Tito's own tunes to the top, so bad nobody even remembers Tito wrote it! So I gotta agree that Santana has something.
posted by paulsc at 10:26 PM on September 10, 2006

But Tuck Andress makes scary faces...
posted by Samizdata at 1:00 AM on September 11, 2006

Wrong Europa.
posted by wendell at 1:04 AM on September 11, 2006

So I gotta agree that Santana has something.

I think in that case that it was a guitar and a rock sensibility that was accessible the main stream.
posted by asok at 1:34 AM on September 11, 2006

I listened to the first couple minutes of this and got bored. What, exactly, is notable about this link? Other than Santana looking young and skinny? Is this a famous Santana song? Does he really start rocking out after the first 3 minutes? It seemed like he was just repeating the same riff over and over, so I closed it. Somebody fill me in here on what exactly I'm looking at?
posted by antifuse at 3:08 AM on September 11, 2006

hmmm. i liked it. i'm kinda with koeselitz here - santana's tone and his melodic sense are what made him stand out. just listen (if you can) to him with john mclaughlin on 'love, devotion and surrender'. while mclaughlin is obviously the more 'technically' gifted (ie he can move his fingers faster) it's santana's ability to emote with the guitar that makes him the better player.


as for fz - ever noticed how all his solos are over one or two chords?
posted by peterkins at 5:25 AM on September 11, 2006

Thanks a bunch, euphorb!
posted by persona non grata at 1:47 PM on September 11, 2006

The strength of Santana is his back up band who are all generally much better musicians than he is.

Ah - "guitarist hijacking band" syndrome. See also recent Pink Floyd.
posted by Sparx at 1:51 PM on September 11, 2006

Wendell, that just made my head explode. In a good way.

My critique:

Carslos Santana loves music and he is a religious man. It is a good combination.
posted by persona non grata at 2:00 PM on September 11, 2006

Wrong Europa.

(don't look, just listen.)
posted by tizzie at 6:56 PM on September 11, 2006

Here'sa Europa covera banda.
posted by LordSludge at 9:08 PM on September 11, 2006