Because we were under the influence [...], we had little choice but to concentrate only on what we were playing and thus, did not move around a great deal.
September 25, 2006 12:12 PM Subscribe
Good Lord, that album kicks ass. In a mellow way.
posted by Bookhouse at 12:26 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Bookhouse at 12:26 PM on September 25, 2006
I just found the author's Myspace music site, but the bland arpeggios are too mind-numbing to inspire me to think of an appropriately caustic remark.
posted by stemlot at 12:27 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by stemlot at 12:27 PM on September 25, 2006
I can't count how many times I've had sex to your master's thesis.
posted by Andrew Brinton at 12:45 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Andrew Brinton at 12:45 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
One of my favorite albums ... an honors thesis ... I'm actually frightened to click the links.
"Then, deduced from their commonalities, I imply a characterization of shoegaze." Argh ...
"The essential objective of this thesis is to justify My Bloody Valentine as one of the most important bands in music history." I'm sorry, but although MBV is pure genius (most of the time), I would draw the line at terming them "one of the most important bands in music history." Holy cow.
posted by blucevalo at 12:48 PM on September 25, 2006
"Then, deduced from their commonalities, I imply a characterization of shoegaze." Argh ...
"The essential objective of this thesis is to justify My Bloody Valentine as one of the most important bands in music history." I'm sorry, but although MBV is pure genius (most of the time), I would draw the line at terming them "one of the most important bands in music history." Holy cow.
posted by blucevalo at 12:48 PM on September 25, 2006
I really like the album, this guy's thesis is pretty much shit, though. It mostly comes across as an overly long and poorly written record review.
I find it it funny that he relates to shoegaze as a genre because he and his friends (legends in their own minds, from the sound of it) played at a party wasted and couldn't look up at the audience. If being too high to look up is the defining criteria for shoegazer bands, I was in one in the late eighties and I'm pretty sure the tradition has a proud history dating back to, at least, the first garage band that owned a bong.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:48 PM on September 25, 2006
I find it it funny that he relates to shoegaze as a genre because he and his friends (legends in their own minds, from the sound of it) played at a party wasted and couldn't look up at the audience. If being too high to look up is the defining criteria for shoegazer bands, I was in one in the late eighties and I'm pretty sure the tradition has a proud history dating back to, at least, the first garage band that owned a bong.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:48 PM on September 25, 2006
Throughout the course of history, numerous works of art have stood at the forefront of their respective genres. My Humps by Californian beat combo The Black Eyed Peas is one such work. Many hundreds of 'brothers'[1] have been 'driven crazy'[2] 'on the daily'[3] by this generation-defining opus, perhaps second only to Brazilian rump-paean Popozão in scope and influence.
[1] My Humps
[2] ibid, ibid, ibid
[3] My Lovely Lady Lumps, R. Kipling, posthum., Camb. Uni. Press, 1937
posted by riotgrrl69 at 12:50 PM on September 25, 2006 [13 favorites]
[1] My Humps
[2] ibid, ibid, ibid
[3] My Lovely Lady Lumps, R. Kipling, posthum., Camb. Uni. Press, 1937
posted by riotgrrl69 at 12:50 PM on September 25, 2006 [13 favorites]
"Isn't Anything" is still the best one. Can't imagine a Master Thesis about that one, which is probably why I prefer it.
posted by bendybendy at 12:52 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by bendybendy at 12:52 PM on September 25, 2006
Yes my word you may well ask what it is, this theory of mine: Loveless starts with a few chords from a guitar, adds many many guitars in the middle, then finished with a few guitars at the end.
This theory that I have--that is to say, which is mine--...is mine. About My Bloody Valentine.
posted by hal9k at 12:52 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
This theory that I have--that is to say, which is mine--...is mine. About My Bloody Valentine.
posted by hal9k at 12:52 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
O’Ciosoig is playing on a Premier brand drum set with
two toms, a snare, a kick drum, a high hat, a ride cymbal, and a crash cymbal. Googe is
playing with a pick on what looks to be a Fender bass, probably a Jazz or Precision.
Butcher is playing a Fender Jazzmaster and Shields is playing what looks to be an Ibanez
copy of a Fender Jaguar.
BRILLIANT SCHOLARSHIP SIR THANKS
That said, what a good CD.
posted by rxrfrx at 12:56 PM on September 25, 2006
two toms, a snare, a kick drum, a high hat, a ride cymbal, and a crash cymbal. Googe is
playing with a pick on what looks to be a Fender bass, probably a Jazz or Precision.
Butcher is playing a Fender Jazzmaster and Shields is playing what looks to be an Ibanez
copy of a Fender Jaguar.
BRILLIANT SCHOLARSHIP SIR THANKS
That said, what a good CD.
posted by rxrfrx at 12:56 PM on September 25, 2006
Steven Shaviro's essay essay on Belinda Butcher from his super old school book _Doom Patrols_ is more of my kind of essay about MBV. Or David Toop's bit from _Oceans of Sound_.
I mean there isn't all that much you can do when you go to write about music, especially this kind of music.
I spent ten years of my life obsessed with that record, learning every song on guitar, every tuning that they used, buying a Fender Jazzmaster, a marshall amp and a Yamaha SPX90 (the secret sauce, that.) I guess I can understand the need to write all this down and there surely is something in this record that hasn't been seen since (just as with, imo, The Smiths and The Beatles before) but I don't see anything revelatory in this essay.
I basically wore the sounds of Loveless out -- I can't even hear the record when I listen to it anymore.... it is all associations and played out lines of thought.
I like to paraphrase Eno on Loveless: this music arrives without traveling.
posted by n9 at 1:05 PM on September 25, 2006
I mean there isn't all that much you can do when you go to write about music, especially this kind of music.
I spent ten years of my life obsessed with that record, learning every song on guitar, every tuning that they used, buying a Fender Jazzmaster, a marshall amp and a Yamaha SPX90 (the secret sauce, that.) I guess I can understand the need to write all this down and there surely is something in this record that hasn't been seen since (just as with, imo, The Smiths and The Beatles before) but I don't see anything revelatory in this essay.
I basically wore the sounds of Loveless out -- I can't even hear the record when I listen to it anymore.... it is all associations and played out lines of thought.
I like to paraphrase Eno on Loveless: this music arrives without traveling.
posted by n9 at 1:05 PM on September 25, 2006
It's "When You Sleep" and "What You Want" for me; I could listen to those songs on Repeat for quite some time. (Omitting, of course, the last thirty or so minutes of the synthflute loop that closes "What You Want"). The rest of the tracks, I'm sorry to say, usually receive a quick tap of the "forward" button.
posted by Iridic at 1:06 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Iridic at 1:06 PM on September 25, 2006
I know not this band. But My Bloody Valentine is a fantastic cheesy 80's horror movie.
posted by gurple at 1:08 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by gurple at 1:08 PM on September 25, 2006
Your favorite master's thesis sucks.
posted by NationalKato at 1:08 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by NationalKato at 1:08 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
Wow, this was a master's thesis? Man, this would not have flown as my undergrad thesis in music. Hell, my 'thesis' was a long composition, and I still had to write a longer and more scholastic essay to defend it. Sheesh.
posted by nonreflectiveobject at 1:10 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by nonreflectiveobject at 1:10 PM on September 25, 2006
The moment in Lost in Translation when Bill Murray and Scarlett Johanssen are headed back to the hotel after a long night out and "Sometimes" plays as they are driven in the taxi, half drunk and drowsy through the Tokyo night was utterly perfect. I have personally used that song as a mood setter for many similar nights in my misspent youth.
As someone else said, it's a nice extended review, but as a self-described musician, and passionate fan of MBV, he doesn't know much about music, muscial gear, musical production, the shoegazer genre, My Bloody Valentine, Kevin Shields, Alan Moulder or really much about anything.
posted by psmealey at 1:16 PM on September 25, 2006
As someone else said, it's a nice extended review, but as a self-described musician, and passionate fan of MBV, he doesn't know much about music, muscial gear, musical production, the shoegazer genre, My Bloody Valentine, Kevin Shields, Alan Moulder or really much about anything.
posted by psmealey at 1:16 PM on September 25, 2006
I'll see you that MA on My Bloody Valentine, and raise with a PhD dissertation on Kid A and Amnesiac (.pdf). You're welcome.
posted by jokeefe at 1:20 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by jokeefe at 1:20 PM on September 25, 2006
Never mind that, how about "How Manchester was Madchester? The geography of the Madchester scene".
posted by greycap at 1:24 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by greycap at 1:24 PM on September 25, 2006
Never mind that, how about "How Manchester was Madchester? The geography of the Madchester scene."
Meh. Did this person write out, in proper musical notation, with footnotes, Love Will Tear Us Apart? Huh?
posted by jokeefe at 1:31 PM on September 25, 2006
Meh. Did this person write out, in proper musical notation, with footnotes, Love Will Tear Us Apart? Huh?
posted by jokeefe at 1:31 PM on September 25, 2006
from page one:
"Because we were under the influence of alcohol and certain other mind-altering drugs, we had little choice but to concentrate only on what we were playing and thus, did not move around a great deal."
huh. i'm bored already.
posted by casconed at 1:32 PM on September 25, 2006
"Because we were under the influence of alcohol and certain other mind-altering drugs, we had little choice but to concentrate only on what we were playing and thus, did not move around a great deal."
huh. i'm bored already.
posted by casconed at 1:32 PM on September 25, 2006
Note to self: If I ever cite Wikipedia and soyouwanna.com in a scholarly work, eat this cyanide capsule immediately.
posted by nasreddin at 1:34 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by nasreddin at 1:34 PM on September 25, 2006
I've listened to Loveless in every single format and in different settings and on varying systems and headphones over 15 years now. And each time I hear something new and unique and fantastic. I think the record is a masterpiece of overdubbing, EQ and mix. I saw them live in '91 or '92 at the (new) Ritz in NYC, and was blown away. Literally. The music was a barely recognizable skeletal line drawing of the record itself. They could'nt really reproduce the studio sound so they didn't. It was cool and when they went on to roar as madly as a B-52 at full thrust for about 35 minutes non stop, well wow. Phew. Quite the experience. A good chunk of the audience left though, but what the hell did they know...frickin' poseurs. Shoegazing was a way of life. And blowing out oones eardrums to a full on a 200 db drone for 35 minutes was my idea if fun! (Not that it wasn't hard...I had my moment of pure hatred for MBV doing it, but I got past it at some point. Probably after my hearing was deteriorated enough to withstand it).
That being said. And respectfully etc blah blah. I think the record has aged badly and sounds dated. It's a big snooze. A big amorphous dolorous soporific snore machine. Zzzzzzz. I'm sorry but it's true. It's what results when a bunch of pretentious and narccistic hash smoking cokeheads buy into their own hype and lock themselves into a studio for six months.
Does it have amazing sounds on it? Yes.
Is Soon one of the most kick ass fucking slabs of uber cool music ever? You bet.
Are the rest of the songs better suited for sloths dancing in a smimming pool of marmalade? Fraid so.
Now if this dweeb can get a Bachelors in Shoegazeology from Florida State University than I want a goddamn PhD.
(The way I see it dreampop-wise there's about 3 or 4 records by the Cocteau twins that still sound timeless and are way more deserving of a thesis than Loveless.)
I think Souvlaki by Slowdive is better than Loveless as is MBV's record that came before that: Isn't Anything.
posted by Skygazer at 1:37 PM on September 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
That being said. And respectfully etc blah blah. I think the record has aged badly and sounds dated. It's a big snooze. A big amorphous dolorous soporific snore machine. Zzzzzzz. I'm sorry but it's true. It's what results when a bunch of pretentious and narccistic hash smoking cokeheads buy into their own hype and lock themselves into a studio for six months.
Does it have amazing sounds on it? Yes.
Is Soon one of the most kick ass fucking slabs of uber cool music ever? You bet.
Are the rest of the songs better suited for sloths dancing in a smimming pool of marmalade? Fraid so.
Now if this dweeb can get a Bachelors in Shoegazeology from Florida State University than I want a goddamn PhD.
(The way I see it dreampop-wise there's about 3 or 4 records by the Cocteau twins that still sound timeless and are way more deserving of a thesis than Loveless.)
I think Souvlaki by Slowdive is better than Loveless as is MBV's record that came before that: Isn't Anything.
posted by Skygazer at 1:37 PM on September 25, 2006 [2 favorites]
"Your weblog is quite good ... you guys are shoegazers."
posted by Flashman at 1:41 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Flashman at 1:41 PM on September 25, 2006
Shoegazing was a way of life. And blowing out oones eardrums to a full on a 200 db drone for 35 minutes was my idea if fun!
Amen. I ran into Mark Gardener in a bar in Chicago a couple of years ago and told him that he personally was responsible for the loss of 20% of my higher end hearing. He bought me a beer.
posted by psmealey at 1:42 PM on September 25, 2006
Amen. I ran into Mark Gardener in a bar in Chicago a couple of years ago and told him that he personally was responsible for the loss of 20% of my higher end hearing. He bought me a beer.
posted by psmealey at 1:42 PM on September 25, 2006
Are the rest of the songs better suited for sloths dancing in a smimming pool of marmalade? Fraid so.
Please direct me to these marmalade pools wherein the sloths disport themselves amongst various shades of lovely orange and bits of darker, tangy peel. I feel then that my life will be made complete.
posted by jokeefe at 1:43 PM on September 25, 2006
Please direct me to these marmalade pools wherein the sloths disport themselves amongst various shades of lovely orange and bits of darker, tangy peel. I feel then that my life will be made complete.
posted by jokeefe at 1:43 PM on September 25, 2006
I heard that My Bloody Valentine heavily influenced Boards of Canada. Yet I understand and enjoy the latter but find the former totally unmoving. Some bored sounding bloke droning on over some boring sounding guitars. Just boring. Possibly good when stoned, but what isn't.
posted by snoktruix at 1:44 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by snoktruix at 1:44 PM on September 25, 2006
(ps I agree with Skygazer. For me, the only album of that genre [which I was well into] that I still enjoy dipping into is Ride's Going Blank Again)
posted by Flashman at 1:45 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Flashman at 1:45 PM on September 25, 2006
I always though that shoegazing was more because of the hair than anything. At least when I had this much hair that's what I thought....
posted by n9 at 1:46 PM on September 25, 2006
Wow, poor guy. I bet no one ever thought those electronic thesis databases would work like *this*.
posted by mediareport at 1:48 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by mediareport at 1:48 PM on September 25, 2006
I'm gonna pop in here and recommend the CD I'm currently obsessing over: "Kenotic" by Hammock. Fantastic, guitar-based ambient post-rock.
posted by davebush at 1:51 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by davebush at 1:51 PM on September 25, 2006
n9, the tome in question addressed just that:
Hairstyles are important as well. The hair of indie kids often looks unwashed and matted, as if they just got out of bed. The point of
these fashion trends is so that the indie fan appears contrary to what society deems appropriate and thus, distinctive and “antiestablishment.”
I finally found something that makes me more pissed off than GWB.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:17 PM on September 25, 2006
Hairstyles are important as well. The hair of indie kids often looks unwashed and matted, as if they just got out of bed. The point of
these fashion trends is so that the indie fan appears contrary to what society deems appropriate and thus, distinctive and “antiestablishment.”
I finally found something that makes me more pissed off than GWB.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:17 PM on September 25, 2006
"Souvlaki", yes! That's such a great record. I was obsessed with that one for a long time. I always thought it would've been the most interesting record to try and play in an "unplugged" setting. Sadly, I never really got into Mojave 3.
posted by stinkycheese at 3:07 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 3:07 PM on September 25, 2006
I think the record has aged badly and sounds dated.
But then again, what record from 1991 hasn't aged badly and doesn't sound dated?
posted by blucevalo at 3:16 PM on September 25, 2006
But then again, what record from 1991 hasn't aged badly and doesn't sound dated?
posted by blucevalo at 3:16 PM on September 25, 2006
New Order still sounds fresh and brilliant to me, if we're talking Manchester.
posted by snoktruix at 3:31 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by snoktruix at 3:31 PM on September 25, 2006
Still probably my favorite album of that era, and the one album that convinced me music didn't die in 1989.
(said the cranky old lady who thinks all this emo hoo-ha and BlackLed SabbathZeppelin Wolfmother crap needs to die a quick and painful death).
Skygazer's dead on -- no matter what format I listen to Loveless in, what equipment I listen on... I almost always catch something new each and every time. And I've been listening to it since it came out, when I was but a wee college girl.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:06 PM on September 25, 2006
(said the cranky old lady who thinks all this emo hoo-ha and BlackLed SabbathZeppelin Wolfmother crap needs to die a quick and painful death).
Skygazer's dead on -- no matter what format I listen to Loveless in, what equipment I listen on... I almost always catch something new each and every time. And I've been listening to it since it came out, when I was but a wee college girl.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:06 PM on September 25, 2006
i saw them open for dinosaur junior in high school and it was so loud you couldn't even yell directly into someones ear and be heard.
posted by jmarq at 4:19 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by jmarq at 4:19 PM on September 25, 2006
so loud you couldn't even yell directly into someones ear and be heard.
I know that that's not what you meant, but: God, I hate it when people do that. Always yell at the other person's temple, not directly into the ear, thanks. It's like someone's perforating your eardrum with a rusty knitting needle. Not that you do this, of course.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:25 PM on September 25, 2006
I know that that's not what you meant, but: God, I hate it when people do that. Always yell at the other person's temple, not directly into the ear, thanks. It's like someone's perforating your eardrum with a rusty knitting needle. Not that you do this, of course.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 4:25 PM on September 25, 2006
Second-best album ever. After Daydream nation, natch.
posted by Jimbob at 4:43 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 4:43 PM on September 25, 2006
Always yell at the other person's temple, not directly into the ear, thanks.
Don't yell. Just speak at a normal volume, maybe a bit loudly. But not yelling! Yelling is bad, and makes it really hard to understand what you're saying.
YOU can't hear yourself, but THEY can hear you. This works especially well if, counterintuitively, they plug the ear you're talking into.
posted by flaterik at 4:45 PM on September 25, 2006
Don't yell. Just speak at a normal volume, maybe a bit loudly. But not yelling! Yelling is bad, and makes it really hard to understand what you're saying.
YOU can't hear yourself, but THEY can hear you. This works especially well if, counterintuitively, they plug the ear you're talking into.
posted by flaterik at 4:45 PM on September 25, 2006
Am I the only one who finds that album tedious to the max? I had the CD "in the day" -- and I just brought it into my itunes -- the songs keep coming up and I look up and say, "What is this annoying cut?"
I've heard it dozens of times for various reasons and I don't see signs of great intelligence or musical value -- plus, I find the slow pitch modulation they use on several cuts rather nauseating.
(Expecting to be lynched...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:49 PM on September 25, 2006
I've heard it dozens of times for various reasons and I don't see signs of great intelligence or musical value -- plus, I find the slow pitch modulation they use on several cuts rather nauseating.
(Expecting to be lynched...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:49 PM on September 25, 2006
This thesis is more soporific than Loveless. It reads like a "My Summer Vacation" essay except without the interesting bits. I hope they take this guy's degree away.
posted by Falconetti at 4:58 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Falconetti at 4:58 PM on September 25, 2006
(said the cranky old lady who thinks all this emo hoo-ha and BlackLed SabbathZeppelin Wolfmother crap needs to die a quick and painful death).
Oh god, yes. Please. Yesterday would have been too soon.
(Except I like emo hoo-ha. But Black Mountain and their ilk: feel free to go away any time now, guys.)
posted by jokeefe at 4:59 PM on September 25, 2006
Oh god, yes. Please. Yesterday would have been too soon.
(Except I like emo hoo-ha. But Black Mountain and their ilk: feel free to go away any time now, guys.)
posted by jokeefe at 4:59 PM on September 25, 2006
Erm... I blame sleep deprivation here. I think I meant "yesterday would NOT have been too soon. "
Brain hurts. Work crazy. Etcetera.
posted by jokeefe at 5:00 PM on September 25, 2006
Brain hurts. Work crazy. Etcetera.
posted by jokeefe at 5:00 PM on September 25, 2006
Wow, this thesis simultaneously exemplifies both the laziest kind of music criticism and the shoddiest kind of academic research. It just needs an ugly font to make a trifecta.
posted by speicus at 5:25 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by speicus at 5:25 PM on September 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
When somebody does a thesis on Go Girl Crazy! wake me up.
(j/k. several people have told me I'd like MBV. I'll get around to checking them out one of these days.)
posted by jonmc at 5:46 PM on September 25, 2006
(j/k. several people have told me I'd like MBV. I'll get around to checking them out one of these days.)
posted by jonmc at 5:46 PM on September 25, 2006
I think Souvlaki by Slowdive is better than Loveless as is MBV's record that came before that: Isn't Anything.
Souvlaki was a great record, but Pygmalion was sheer genius. Just for a day was great as well.
I've never understood the appeal of Isn't Anything, maybe I need to read a thesis about it.
posted by purephase at 6:10 PM on September 25, 2006
Souvlaki was a great record, but Pygmalion was sheer genius. Just for a day was great as well.
I've never understood the appeal of Isn't Anything, maybe I need to read a thesis about it.
posted by purephase at 6:10 PM on September 25, 2006
Another vote for Isn't Anything as a much better album.
Though my personal taste in shoegaze lies more in Verve's (in those halycon days when they weren't forced to use a 'the') Storm in Heaven and Swervedriver's first two albums: Raise and Mezcal Head. Those are the only three albums I can listen to from the early 90's with any degree of regularity.
Nostalgia is a painful demon best left chained.
(Was Swervedriver really shoegaze? They got lumped in but, to me, never seemed to quite fit.)
posted by pandaharma at 6:32 PM on September 25, 2006
Though my personal taste in shoegaze lies more in Verve's (in those halycon days when they weren't forced to use a 'the') Storm in Heaven and Swervedriver's first two albums: Raise and Mezcal Head. Those are the only three albums I can listen to from the early 90's with any degree of regularity.
Nostalgia is a painful demon best left chained.
(Was Swervedriver really shoegaze? They got lumped in but, to me, never seemed to quite fit.)
posted by pandaharma at 6:32 PM on September 25, 2006
jonmc writes "several people have told me I'd like MBV. I'll get around to checking them out one of these days."
Possibly, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Note the plentiful Smiths references in the thesis? :)
flaterik writes "Don't yell. Just speak at a normal volume, maybe a bit loudly. But not yelling! Yelling is bad, and makes it really hard to understand what you're saying.
"YOU can't hear yourself, but THEY can hear you. This works especially well if, counterintuitively, they plug the ear you're talking into."
Well agreed.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:33 PM on September 25, 2006
Possibly, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Note the plentiful Smiths references in the thesis? :)
flaterik writes "Don't yell. Just speak at a normal volume, maybe a bit loudly. But not yelling! Yelling is bad, and makes it really hard to understand what you're saying.
"YOU can't hear yourself, but THEY can hear you. This works especially well if, counterintuitively, they plug the ear you're talking into."
Well agreed.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:33 PM on September 25, 2006
(j/k. several people have told me I'd like MBV. I'll get around to checking them out one of these days.)
I suspect that you would not.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:05 PM on September 25, 2006
I suspect that you would not.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:05 PM on September 25, 2006
I've heard it dozens of times for various reasons and I don't see signs of great intelligence or musical value
Oh, you're not alone. When Loveless came out and the gushing started, I shrugged and thought, well, other folks probably think this about some of the stuff I cream my pants over. When the gushing not only didn't stop but grew to '2nd best album of the decade' status, they lost me completely. It's definitely my pick for most overrated album of the last 20 years.
posted by mediareport at 7:54 PM on September 25, 2006
Oh, you're not alone. When Loveless came out and the gushing started, I shrugged and thought, well, other folks probably think this about some of the stuff I cream my pants over. When the gushing not only didn't stop but grew to '2nd best album of the decade' status, they lost me completely. It's definitely my pick for most overrated album of the last 20 years.
posted by mediareport at 7:54 PM on September 25, 2006
re: Isn't Anything. Kevin Sheilds didn't even particularly like that one. The Feed Me With Your Kiss and You Made Me Realize eps are much better than I.A., imo. I'd even argue that Ecstasy and Wine is a better record... not that there is anything wrong with I.A. -- I just really think that the recording sounds weak and thin and Kevin had a lot less to do with the recording, plus no Flood in the studio, no tube amps, etc. Just saying.
posted by n9 at 8:11 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by n9 at 8:11 PM on September 25, 2006
I've heard it dozens of times for various reasons and I don't see signs of great intelligence or musical value.
lord jesus christ. go get laid or something.
posted by n9 at 8:13 PM on September 25, 2006
lord jesus christ. go get laid or something.
posted by n9 at 8:13 PM on September 25, 2006
Oops. I meant Pygmalion too purephase; that was the one I always used to imagine being played "unplugged". "Souvlaki" is a great 'cough-syrup-rock' record for sure, but Pygmalion really is its own thing entirely. It's a direction Slowdive was pretty much on its own in persuing (except maybe some Seefeel stuff) - but then Slowdive (and Seefeel too, for that matter) seemed to abandon it as soon as they found it.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:07 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by stinkycheese at 9:07 PM on September 25, 2006
As someone who missed shoegazer when it was happening (being fourteen and in the Ozarks), I got seriously into it about three years ago (around the same time I got into Boards of Canada, and yes there's a connection). I disagree that Loveless sounds dated at all. It's pretty timeless for a pop record. Slowdive and Ride are great (Souvlaki is awesome), but Loveless still sounds like the raw essence of whatever it is that these bands were trying to get at.
That being said, MBV is also a band I don't try to defend against haters. I can see why people wouldn't like it.
And I wouldn't ever try to write a thesis about it.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:18 PM on September 25, 2006
That being said, MBV is also a band I don't try to defend against haters. I can see why people wouldn't like it.
And I wouldn't ever try to write a thesis about it.
posted by Bookhouse at 9:18 PM on September 25, 2006
pandaharma:
Agreed 100% on [the] Verve aging well. I found A Storm In Heaven a few years ago (being a wee kid before Ashcroft started singing bittersweet ballads) and went digging around listening to all the shoegaze/dream-pop I could. I think the first Verve EP may be a little better as a whole, though Already There and Beautiful Mind on SiH are mind-numbingly beautiful.
Slouvaki is incredible. Not so sure about Swervedriver and Cocteau Twins aging well.
Does anyone else kinda think that the post-rockers don't pay enough homage to shoegazers? All the kids in my hometown that are into Godspeed, Boards of Canada, Explosions in the Sky, et al haven't heard of any of these bands.
posted by trinarian at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2006
Agreed 100% on [the] Verve aging well. I found A Storm In Heaven a few years ago (being a wee kid before Ashcroft started singing bittersweet ballads) and went digging around listening to all the shoegaze/dream-pop I could. I think the first Verve EP may be a little better as a whole, though Already There and Beautiful Mind on SiH are mind-numbingly beautiful.
Slouvaki is incredible. Not so sure about Swervedriver and Cocteau Twins aging well.
Does anyone else kinda think that the post-rockers don't pay enough homage to shoegazers? All the kids in my hometown that are into Godspeed, Boards of Canada, Explosions in the Sky, et al haven't heard of any of these bands.
posted by trinarian at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2006
I went back and listened to Loveless to make sure I wasn't perhaps imagining things through the funny window of time and memory.
Only Shallow, Soon and What you Want are probably the only songs on Loveless I couldn't live without. Actually Only Shallow is what I imagine godzilla would sound like genetically spliced with Jimi Hendrix. Very heavy, very wierd and very exciting. Everything else is more or less over cooked. Too many guitar tracks playing the same part (or one note of it) on 5 different amps and in painstaking increments of differentiated, reverb, compression and EQ. Someone open a window it's stuffy in there, the center cannot hold (and actually it can't breathe either).
The two eps that came out in support of Loveless are good: The Glider ep has the afore(over)mentioned (but great) Soon and the groovin' Off your Face. And the Tremelo EP has a great trippy song called "Swallow" with what sounds like some sort of exotic indian instrument, I wish they'd explored more as a follow up to Loveless. Honey Power finds them rockin like on Isn't Anything.
The Lost in Translation soundtrack has some pretty good new Kevin Shields songs. i.e., City Girl and Are You Awake.
posted by Skygazer at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2006
Only Shallow, Soon and What you Want are probably the only songs on Loveless I couldn't live without. Actually Only Shallow is what I imagine godzilla would sound like genetically spliced with Jimi Hendrix. Very heavy, very wierd and very exciting. Everything else is more or less over cooked. Too many guitar tracks playing the same part (or one note of it) on 5 different amps and in painstaking increments of differentiated, reverb, compression and EQ. Someone open a window it's stuffy in there, the center cannot hold (and actually it can't breathe either).
The two eps that came out in support of Loveless are good: The Glider ep has the afore(over)mentioned (but great) Soon and the groovin' Off your Face. And the Tremelo EP has a great trippy song called "Swallow" with what sounds like some sort of exotic indian instrument, I wish they'd explored more as a follow up to Loveless. Honey Power finds them rockin like on Isn't Anything.
The Lost in Translation soundtrack has some pretty good new Kevin Shields songs. i.e., City Girl and Are You Awake.
posted by Skygazer at 9:23 PM on September 25, 2006
That's not a Fender bass, either. MA by research? Ptui.
posted by Wolof at 9:33 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by Wolof at 9:33 PM on September 25, 2006
When I hear people say they actually like MBV, my first impression is that it is some kind of joke, and I'm somehow missing the irony, or the punchline.
I just listened to "I Only Said" a moment ago to refresh my memory, and I would have given up state secrets just to make it stop.
A friend of mine had "Isn't Anything" back in the day, and I thought it was some kind of novelty record.
Cockteau Twins is infinitely more listenable.
In my opinion, of course.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:07 PM on September 25, 2006
I just listened to "I Only Said" a moment ago to refresh my memory, and I would have given up state secrets just to make it stop.
A friend of mine had "Isn't Anything" back in the day, and I thought it was some kind of novelty record.
Cockteau Twins is infinitely more listenable.
In my opinion, of course.
posted by Ynoxas at 10:07 PM on September 25, 2006
They may have been whacked out of their gourds on all sorts of pharmaceuticals when they recorded the album, but the fact that fifteen years after it was released the album still inspires equal combinations of fervor and vitriol means that they did something right.
posted by blucevalo at 10:29 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by blucevalo at 10:29 PM on September 25, 2006
This brings back some fond memories. Thanks for the link, goodnewsfortheinsane.
posted by homunculus at 10:54 PM on September 25, 2006
posted by homunculus at 10:54 PM on September 25, 2006
Any Flying Saucer Attack fans willing to represent?
I can completely understand people not liking My Bloody Valentine or shoegazer as a genre. It probably is an acquired taste. But I still can't get enough of it, and I'm always trying to seek out new bands who are trying to build upon it. Sianspheric were pretty good, but the last I heard of them had kinda headed into electronica territory. I should catch up with what they've been doing lately.
Does anyone else kinda think that the post-rockers don't pay enough homage to shoegazers? All the kids in my hometown that are into Godspeed, Boards of Canada, Explosions in the Sky, et al haven't heard of any of these bands.
Yeah I get the same feeling. It's pretty sad.
posted by Jimbob at 11:24 PM on September 25, 2006
I can completely understand people not liking My Bloody Valentine or shoegazer as a genre. It probably is an acquired taste. But I still can't get enough of it, and I'm always trying to seek out new bands who are trying to build upon it. Sianspheric were pretty good, but the last I heard of them had kinda headed into electronica territory. I should catch up with what they've been doing lately.
Does anyone else kinda think that the post-rockers don't pay enough homage to shoegazers? All the kids in my hometown that are into Godspeed, Boards of Canada, Explosions in the Sky, et al haven't heard of any of these bands.
Yeah I get the same feeling. It's pretty sad.
posted by Jimbob at 11:24 PM on September 25, 2006
Most overrated album of the last twenty years?
Why are you mentioning OK Computer in a My Bloody Valentine thread?
posted by psmealey at 2:13 AM on September 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
Why are you mentioning OK Computer in a My Bloody Valentine thread?
posted by psmealey at 2:13 AM on September 26, 2006 [1 favorite]
(Was Swervedriver really shoegaze? They got lumped in but, to me, never seemed to quite fit.)
I think they get lumped in for their association with Alan Moulder, who produced Loveless, as well as records for Ride and Curve. The Swervies are a heavy rhythm section driven guitar band that owes more to the Stooges and Dinosaur Jr. than really anything to do with the Shogazer genre. They are definitely not for everyone (someone above asks if they stand the test of time), but for my money "Mezcal Head" is one of the best and best sounding guitar rock albums of all time.
I will stand up for Flying Saucer Attack, as well as Stereolab and Spiritualized(r), anyone represent for American shoegazers, Lilys and the Swirlies?
posted by psmealey at 2:20 AM on September 26, 2006
I think they get lumped in for their association with Alan Moulder, who produced Loveless, as well as records for Ride and Curve. The Swervies are a heavy rhythm section driven guitar band that owes more to the Stooges and Dinosaur Jr. than really anything to do with the Shogazer genre. They are definitely not for everyone (someone above asks if they stand the test of time), but for my money "Mezcal Head" is one of the best and best sounding guitar rock albums of all time.
I will stand up for Flying Saucer Attack, as well as Stereolab and Spiritualized(r), anyone represent for American shoegazers, Lilys and the Swirlies?
posted by psmealey at 2:20 AM on September 26, 2006
Aaah, see I'd say Stereolab are pushing the bounds of what I'd consider "shoegazer". Which isn't to say that they aren't totally, totally brilliant.
posted by Jimbob at 3:20 AM on September 26, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 3:20 AM on September 26, 2006
As for shoegazing in general here is a list I posted on em411 a while back:
n9's shoegazer list:
lilys - in presence of nothing+++ (!!!<<<goodness!!!)
swirlies - They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days in the Glittering World of the Salons• (most creative award)
Slowdive - Blue Day (comp of early eps)
ride - nowhere, going blank again(best pop songs in genre award)
boo radleys - everything is alright forever+, giant steps+ (just great stuff)
lush - gala+ (sweetness and light and gala are astonishingly wonderful songs)
spacemen 3 - perfect prescription (narcotics award)
spiritualized - lazer guided melodies+
catherine wheel - chrome, ferment
cocteau twins - heaven or las vegas+ (best female vox, ever), milk and kisses, arguably everything they ever did
swervedriver - mezcal head (the most well-recorded guitars, maybe ever.)
seefeel - polyfusia (or the first two eps, time to find me and more like space.)
my bloody valentine - feed me with your kiss, you made me realize, glider, loveless• , tremolo (gotta have 'em)
pale saints - either lp, mrs. dolphin (ep comp) (also really great songs, really sad songs)
medicine - shot forth self living (loudest sounding record, ever)
telescopes - telescopes+ (perfect dream rock lp)
electric company - a pert cyclic omen (most insane award)
friends of the shoe (from back in the day):
stereolab: lowfi through refried ectoplasm (1991-1994)
unrest: imperial and perfect teeth
aphex twin: selected ambient works I and II
+ means essential, imo
posted by n9 at 3:36 AM on September 26, 2006 [4 favorites]
n9's shoegazer list:
lilys - in presence of nothing+++ (!!!<<<goodness!!!)
swirlies - They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days in the Glittering World of the Salons• (most creative award)
Slowdive - Blue Day (comp of early eps)
ride - nowhere, going blank again(best pop songs in genre award)
boo radleys - everything is alright forever+, giant steps+ (just great stuff)
lush - gala+ (sweetness and light and gala are astonishingly wonderful songs)
spacemen 3 - perfect prescription (narcotics award)
spiritualized - lazer guided melodies+
catherine wheel - chrome, ferment
cocteau twins - heaven or las vegas+ (best female vox, ever), milk and kisses, arguably everything they ever did
swervedriver - mezcal head (the most well-recorded guitars, maybe ever.)
seefeel - polyfusia (or the first two eps, time to find me and more like space.)
my bloody valentine - feed me with your kiss, you made me realize, glider, loveless• , tremolo (gotta have 'em)
pale saints - either lp, mrs. dolphin (ep comp) (also really great songs, really sad songs)
medicine - shot forth self living (loudest sounding record, ever)
telescopes - telescopes+ (perfect dream rock lp)
electric company - a pert cyclic omen (most insane award)
friends of the shoe (from back in the day):
stereolab: lowfi through refried ectoplasm (1991-1994)
unrest: imperial and perfect teeth
aphex twin: selected ambient works I and II
+ means essential, imo
posted by n9 at 3:36 AM on September 26, 2006 [4 favorites]
of the last twenty years?
I was working in college radio when it came out. You would not believe the hype. And it just grew and grew.
*shrug*
Like I said, I'm sure folks think that about some of the stuff I find essential. de gustibus. But yeah, MBV's Loveless is, for me, one of the most overrated, overhyped records of the last 20 years.
posted by mediareport at 5:43 AM on September 26, 2006
I was working in college radio when it came out. You would not believe the hype. And it just grew and grew.
*shrug*
Like I said, I'm sure folks think that about some of the stuff I find essential. de gustibus. But yeah, MBV's Loveless is, for me, one of the most overrated, overhyped records of the last 20 years.
posted by mediareport at 5:43 AM on September 26, 2006
I suspect that you would not.
Well, the words they most often used were a variant on "a big guitar sound that you'd dig."
posted by jonmc at 6:08 AM on September 26, 2006
Well, the words they most often used were a variant on "a big guitar sound that you'd dig."
posted by jonmc at 6:08 AM on September 26, 2006
Well hey, definitely check it out, it's a classic. But obviously it has its fervent detractors. (Although there's only been one use of the word "pretentious" in this whole thread!)
posted by ludwig_van at 6:59 AM on September 26, 2006
posted by ludwig_van at 6:59 AM on September 26, 2006
jonmc: You should definitely give them a listen to decide for yourself, just try to keep your expectations controlled. Given your preferences in other threads, I doubt you would enjoy it much.
posted by Ynoxas at 7:01 AM on September 26, 2006
posted by Ynoxas at 7:01 AM on September 26, 2006
That's it...i'm going back to college, and I'll keep going 'til I get to write a master's thesis. It shall be titled
"Why I think The Swirlies album They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days In The Glittering Worlds Of The Salons is better than My Bloody Valentine's Loveless"
Finally the world shall see it my way...and before you start the "but they stole from MBV..." crap, give it a chance...a very loud, full volume chance. Stay tuned for my doctoral thesis
"Swervedriver, Bong Hits and the Space/Time Continuum...It's All Happening Now".
posted by cloudstastemetallic at 8:14 AM on September 26, 2006
"Why I think The Swirlies album They Spent Their Wild Youthful Days In The Glittering Worlds Of The Salons is better than My Bloody Valentine's Loveless"
Finally the world shall see it my way...and before you start the "but they stole from MBV..." crap, give it a chance...a very loud, full volume chance. Stay tuned for my doctoral thesis
"Swervedriver, Bong Hits and the Space/Time Continuum...It's All Happening Now".
posted by cloudstastemetallic at 8:14 AM on September 26, 2006
For an alternative point of view, there's always bitter misanthrope Dr. David Thorpe and his ongoing blood feud with Kevin Shields.
posted by Iridic at 8:40 AM on September 26, 2006
posted by Iridic at 8:40 AM on September 26, 2006
Why are you mentioning OK Computer in a My Bloody Valentine thread?
Beacuse nobody had mentioned Achtung Baby (and given it its proper due) yet.
posted by blucevalo at 9:00 AM on September 26, 2006
Beacuse nobody had mentioned Achtung Baby (and given it its proper due) yet.
posted by blucevalo at 9:00 AM on September 26, 2006
Oh, and meanwhile, on the "it's not aged well and it sounds dated" front:
Believe it or not, Clay Aiken’s new album of schlocky tunes for blue-haired ladies, "A Thousand Different Ways," looks as though it just outsold Justin Timberlake’s "FutureSex/LoveSounds" and took the No. 1 spot. It was Aiken’s debut week and Justin’s second week.
posted by blucevalo at 9:07 AM on September 26, 2006
Believe it or not, Clay Aiken’s new album of schlocky tunes for blue-haired ladies, "A Thousand Different Ways," looks as though it just outsold Justin Timberlake’s "FutureSex/LoveSounds" and took the No. 1 spot. It was Aiken’s debut week and Justin’s second week.
posted by blucevalo at 9:07 AM on September 26, 2006
Heh. I'm glad that I'm not going to be the first person to say that I don't dig Loveless (which always makes me feel like a bit of a dick). I kept having it recommended by a couple of people whose tastes I really respected, but I think that it may have been an album that would have had more of an impact if I heard it at the time it came out.
I do like a lot of shoegaze, but I like the less shimmery gossamer stuff. I love Jesus and Mary Chain, I like the Verve a lot, and love both of Jason Spaceman's bands. I love the big sound, the walls of feedback and wailing, but for me it was the lyrics and vocals that turned me off of both Cocteau Twins and MBV, though I can enjoy bits and pieces of them.
As for the thesis, man, I hope he gets denied. Totally weak sauce on both scholarship and presentation. The reaching claims about post-modernism feminizing indie music? And the bizarro claims about fashion? Maybe in Florida, I guess.
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on September 26, 2006
I do like a lot of shoegaze, but I like the less shimmery gossamer stuff. I love Jesus and Mary Chain, I like the Verve a lot, and love both of Jason Spaceman's bands. I love the big sound, the walls of feedback and wailing, but for me it was the lyrics and vocals that turned me off of both Cocteau Twins and MBV, though I can enjoy bits and pieces of them.
As for the thesis, man, I hope he gets denied. Totally weak sauce on both scholarship and presentation. The reaching claims about post-modernism feminizing indie music? And the bizarro claims about fashion? Maybe in Florida, I guess.
posted by klangklangston at 9:39 AM on September 26, 2006
Jimbob: I'll totally give you Flying Saucer Attack (good call!) if you're willing to go out on a limb with me here on the Boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun. Mildly disagree about Daydream Nation - I'd go with Evol - but it's a picayune distinction and a tough call.
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:39 AM on September 26, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:39 AM on September 26, 2006
Hehe, this just reminds me of this great messianic, drug-fueled, delusional, master's-thesis-length rant about The Stone Roses that has been floating around the web forever.
Part One / Part Two
Excerpt:
posted by idontlikewords at 10:28 PM on September 26, 2006
Part One / Part Two
Excerpt:
I had interpreted all of the other omens correctly and deep down I knew what the E666 license plates meant. I mean really, what else could E666 mean to an E-head like me. Also, I received the same sign twice in the same form (a car license plate) in two different countries. I sat in my room and pondered the situation. I had to say it. I had to give it up. I knew if I said it, I had to mean it. If I said it to HER there would be no turning around and taking E at some gig or Rave with a super vibe. A sorcerer cannot be limited, and E was a limitation for me because it was a ceiling. It was a ceiling in that, until I gave it up for good, I wouldn't get higher. My frame of reference for Heaven would be a hit of Ecstasy and the Stone Roses first record. SHE wanted me to say it even though I didn't have a bad habit with it. SHE wanted me to say it was over just to prove that I could give it up. SHE just wanted me to pay my debts. I was going to realize my dreams, become a Messiah, and tour with the Stone Roses, but it wasn't going to happen until I told her that I didn't need E, and that I would accept the omen. The first time was a warning, but this time SHE meant fucking business.Now *that* is what I call graduate level writing! =)
posted by idontlikewords at 10:28 PM on September 26, 2006
I had never heard the record before I read the thesis, and I went out and got it as a result.
It's as advertised, really. It's easily the longest music review I've ever read, but it beat the hell out of a Pitchfork review.
posted by liquidgnome at 12:15 PM on September 28, 2006
It's as advertised, really. It's easily the longest music review I've ever read, but it beat the hell out of a Pitchfork review.
posted by liquidgnome at 12:15 PM on September 28, 2006
Can't believe I missed this thread. Still no one mentioned the Drop Nineteens 'Delaware' so I guess I don't have that much to contribute, as I'm not that up on MBV. 'You Made Me Realise' is a classic EP though.
Agree the thesis is really poor academically.
posted by drill_here_fore_seismics at 4:07 AM on October 15, 2006
Agree the thesis is really poor academically.
posted by drill_here_fore_seismics at 4:07 AM on October 15, 2006
« Older Petticoat Pond Transgenerational Poufbunny Pinup... | Etta Baker 1913-2006 Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Previously: 1, 2
Via soundonsound forums
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 12:13 PM on September 25, 2006