... Just Us, We Caught The Bus.
October 9, 2006 11:20 AM Subscribe
Good thing he never tried to tangle with these guys:
posted by spicynuts at 11:39 AM on October 9, 2006
posted by spicynuts at 11:39 AM on October 9, 2006
Hey I just realized...that Kiss comic is printed in REAL KISS BLOOD!! Take that, Dylan, you pansy.
posted by spicynuts at 11:52 AM on October 9, 2006
posted by spicynuts at 11:52 AM on October 9, 2006
Oh man. I pored over those issues of National Lampoon until I had them memorized... and never understood that I was looking at a whole slew of anti-semitic cliches (I was brought up to be blissfully ignorant in that regard). I thought the yarmulke simply meant that Zimmerman was, you know, conventional and rule-bound and submitting to authority... what we used to call "straight."
Perhaps my life-long antipathy towards Dylan started here. Heh.
And the panel where Joan Baez ponders how "Silver Dagger'd sound through a Marshall amp" is still hot. Roll on PJ Harvey...
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on October 9, 2006
Perhaps my life-long antipathy towards Dylan started here. Heh.
And the panel where Joan Baez ponders how "Silver Dagger'd sound through a Marshall amp" is still hot. Roll on PJ Harvey...
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on October 9, 2006
However, two years later when "Son'o'God meets Zimmerman" came out, I had already moved on. I never read it at the time; it's really offensive. Boo.
posted by jokeefe at 12:17 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by jokeefe at 12:17 PM on October 9, 2006
It boggles my mind that it was drawn by the same Neal Adams who showed such class and sensitivity when he did some amazing work on Green Lantern/Green Arrow in the 70's.
posted by willmize at 12:23 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by willmize at 12:23 PM on October 9, 2006
Perhaps my life-long antipathy towards Dylan
*begins dousing jokeefe with holy water*
say it ain't so....
posted by jonmc at 12:25 PM on October 9, 2006
*begins dousing jokeefe with holy water*
say it ain't so....
posted by jonmc at 12:25 PM on October 9, 2006
(to the people getting sniffy and offended. did you all sleep through the 70's? Being offensive on purpose was National Lampoon's raison d'etre.)
posted by jonmc at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by jonmc at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2006
They were good at it, too! There is very little racial humor today that walks the same line, maybe Chappelle's show. The subject of the humor is the stereotype itself, not the group the stereotype is of.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:33 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:33 PM on October 9, 2006
Question: Would Americans nowadays know what was meant with the reference to the weathermen? I know I wouldn't have had a clue, were it not for accidentally watching the great, great documentary about the organization at a film festival.
posted by JoddEHaa at 12:46 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by JoddEHaa at 12:46 PM on October 9, 2006
Depends on the Americans reading it. I would say a greater percentage would not. However, I would say that a great percentage of Americans also don't know that Dylan was Jewish and that Robert Zimmerman was his birth name.
posted by spicynuts at 12:49 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by spicynuts at 12:49 PM on October 9, 2006
Bonus points for the title of this post, Alvy. One of my favorite Basement Tapes song.
posted by fletchmuy at 12:49 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by fletchmuy at 12:49 PM on October 9, 2006
70's NatLamp was about as good as satire got. Politically correct wasn't even an idea then and I'm sure they would have made fun of it, if it had been. They were wonderfully, blissfully, offensive, and dealt it out to just about everyone. And really, considering some of the other stuff that saw print in this mag, this is really very mild.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:51 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by doctor_negative at 12:51 PM on October 9, 2006
"Up, up and oy vey."
Sorry, but I think Chappelle is light years ahead of this sort of Mad/Lampoon stuff. But they did break some ground there, no doubt.
count me in the Dylan makes me snore camp.
posted by django_z at 12:53 PM on October 9, 2006
Sorry, but I think Chappelle is light years ahead of this sort of Mad/Lampoon stuff. But they did break some ground there, no doubt.
posted by django_z at 12:53 PM on October 9, 2006
Hey I just realized...that Kiss comic is printed in REAL KISS BLOOD!! Take that, Dylan, you pansy.
KISS are pikers compared to writer/editor/continuity god Mark Gruenwald, whose ashes were mixed in with the ink for the TPB of Squadron Supreme.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:00 PM on October 9, 2006
KISS are pikers compared to writer/editor/continuity god Mark Gruenwald, whose ashes were mixed in with the ink for the TPB of Squadron Supreme.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:00 PM on October 9, 2006
Thank you for this post, Alvy Ampersand.
posted by interrobang at 1:08 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by interrobang at 1:08 PM on October 9, 2006
God, the Lampoon was great back then. Thanks for this post.
"Stalin wasn't a real Communist! I was a real Communist!"
(I assume they misspelled Ling-Temco-Vought for legal reasons. I also assume none of you whippersnappers has ever heard of it, any more than you've heard of the Weathermen. Kids these days, I tell ya...)
posted by languagehat at 1:13 PM on October 9, 2006
"Stalin wasn't a real Communist! I was a real Communist!"
(I assume they misspelled Ling-Temco-Vought for legal reasons. I also assume none of you whippersnappers has ever heard of it, any more than you've heard of the Weathermen. Kids these days, I tell ya...)
posted by languagehat at 1:13 PM on October 9, 2006
Also, heydey of Mad Magazine. Some of the shit they pulled in there would never fly today.
count me in the Dylan makes me snore camp.
Count me in the Debates About Whether X Artist is Good or Not Make Me Snore camp.
posted by spicynuts at 1:19 PM on October 9, 2006
count me in the Dylan makes me snore camp.
Count me in the Debates About Whether X Artist is Good or Not Make Me Snore camp.
posted by spicynuts at 1:19 PM on October 9, 2006
Also, heydey of Mad Magazine.
No, no, you whippersnapper, its heyday was a quarter of a century earlier, when Harvey Kurtzman was still there. Kids these days...
posted by languagehat at 1:27 PM on October 9, 2006
No, no, you whippersnapper, its heyday was a quarter of a century earlier, when Harvey Kurtzman was still there. Kids these days...
posted by languagehat at 1:27 PM on October 9, 2006
The Weathermen... Wasn't that the groundbreaking graphic novel in which Willard Scott and Al Roker are mild mannered hip hop artists who have to track down the mysterious super villain, Zimmer Man, who is secretly bumping off all the world's elite meteorologists?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:32 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:32 PM on October 9, 2006
Perhaps my life-long antipathy towards Dylan
*begins dousing jokeefe with holy water*
say it ain't so....
Sorry, Jon. Languagehat's already had a go at me on this subject.... I remain stubbornly, nay, perversely, semi-anti-Dylan.
The National Lampoon in the early 70s had moments of utter brilliance-- it lost its lustre as the decade progressed, but hell, what didn't. But re: the offensiveness thing-- I suggest that if "offensiveness" becomes the object of the piece, then satire has failed. Zimmerman at Woodstock suceeded fantastically well as satire; the Son'o'God episode does not, relying too greatly on the same stereotypes one imagines it was attempting to ridicule.
posted by jokeefe at 1:49 PM on October 9, 2006
*begins dousing jokeefe with holy water*
say it ain't so....
Sorry, Jon. Languagehat's already had a go at me on this subject.... I remain stubbornly, nay, perversely, semi-anti-Dylan.
The National Lampoon in the early 70s had moments of utter brilliance-- it lost its lustre as the decade progressed, but hell, what didn't. But re: the offensiveness thing-- I suggest that if "offensiveness" becomes the object of the piece, then satire has failed. Zimmerman at Woodstock suceeded fantastically well as satire; the Son'o'God episode does not, relying too greatly on the same stereotypes one imagines it was attempting to ridicule.
posted by jokeefe at 1:49 PM on October 9, 2006
Oh yeah, and how doesn't know who The Weathermen were? Sheesh, kids today, lawn, uphill both ways, three feet of snow, etcetera.
posted by jokeefe at 1:53 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by jokeefe at 1:53 PM on October 9, 2006
Also, heydey of Mad Magazine. Some of the shit they pulled in there would never fly today.
Word to the wizened: The complete MAD magazine (7 CDs) is floating around on bittorrent right now.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:14 PM on October 9, 2006
Word to the wizened: The complete MAD magazine (7 CDs) is floating around on bittorrent right now.
posted by sonofsamiam at 2:14 PM on October 9, 2006
Yeah, but every time I try to do the fold-in the CD breaks.
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:41 PM on October 9, 2006 [3 favorites]
posted by InfidelZombie at 2:41 PM on October 9, 2006 [3 favorites]
My favorite thing about Bob Dylan is that he sounds exactly like everyone's impression of him.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 2:52 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 2:52 PM on October 9, 2006
all negroes should be blacks!
---that made me crack up...
posted by das_2099 at 2:57 PM on October 9, 2006
---that made me crack up...
posted by das_2099 at 2:57 PM on October 9, 2006
Being offensive on purpose was National Lampoon's raison d'etre.
but a lot of their stuff has dated badly because of it ... truth is, by the end of the 70s, they'd done it to death
Politically correct wasn't even an idea then
i remember hearing the phrase in 1975, usually mockingly by leftists to refer to marxists who had a certain "party line" on things
it's interesting to see how that phrase evolved in meaning
posted by pyramid termite at 3:45 PM on October 9, 2006
but a lot of their stuff has dated badly because of it ... truth is, by the end of the 70s, they'd done it to death
Politically correct wasn't even an idea then
i remember hearing the phrase in 1975, usually mockingly by leftists to refer to marxists who had a certain "party line" on things
it's interesting to see how that phrase evolved in meaning
posted by pyramid termite at 3:45 PM on October 9, 2006
I still remember when I was about 11 or 12 and I first saw NL, I was just amazed and thought "can they do this?, can they say that?". So long ago.
posted by Iron Rat at 3:55 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by Iron Rat at 3:55 PM on October 9, 2006
Oh yeah, and how doesn't know who The Weathermen were?
I don't need to be familiar with the Weathermen. I know which way the wind blows.
posted by jonmc at 4:11 PM on October 9, 2006
I don't need to be familiar with the Weathermen. I know which way the wind blows.
posted by jonmc at 4:11 PM on October 9, 2006
I know which way the wind blows.
usually out, right?
*looks at can of pork and beans significantly*
posted by pyramid termite at 4:13 PM on October 9, 2006
usually out, right?
*looks at can of pork and beans significantly*
posted by pyramid termite at 4:13 PM on October 9, 2006
wow... this was awful. just a bunch of anti-Jewish clichés. Why do they make him out to be this greedy penny-pinching caricature except for the fact that his last name is Zimmerman?
posted by destro at 6:05 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by destro at 6:05 PM on October 9, 2006
Political correctness was just struggling for a foothold back then. In 1971 I was more or less writing for “Harry”, a Baltimore underground. PJ O’Rourke was assistant editor, splitting his time between Harry and The National Lampoon, which he eventually took over in a bloodless coup.
Just after I started writing for Harry, we were called to account by a committee of socially responsible leftists for publishing “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”. They said it was sexist. When I tried to defend it they laughed at me.
Not long after that Harry was seized by Maoist quasi-hippie collectivists and they tied everyone up to chairs for a night-long political harangue. PJ was in New York at the time, so he missed out. But we were in a dilemma; how to be open to the people while keeping the people who wanted to tie us up out?
PJ thought we should make people say “Chairman Mao eats doggie doo.”
That worked like a charm until the cops beat down our door.
posted by Huplescat at 6:41 PM on October 9, 2006
Just after I started writing for Harry, we were called to account by a committee of socially responsible leftists for publishing “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”. They said it was sexist. When I tried to defend it they laughed at me.
Not long after that Harry was seized by Maoist quasi-hippie collectivists and they tied everyone up to chairs for a night-long political harangue. PJ was in New York at the time, so he missed out. But we were in a dilemma; how to be open to the people while keeping the people who wanted to tie us up out?
PJ thought we should make people say “Chairman Mao eats doggie doo.”
That worked like a charm until the cops beat down our door.
posted by Huplescat at 6:41 PM on October 9, 2006
Just after I started writing for Harry, we were called to account by a committee of socially responsible leftists for publishing “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”. They said it was sexist. When I tried to defend it they laughed at me.
Well, you know, it was sexist. I wore out copies of those comic books, so I know the material well, and you can't argue that they weren't. As was much of the counterculture-- where do you think the early impetus for the feminist movements of the early 70s (as well as the organizing strategies and techniques) arose from, if not partially in reaction to the ingrained sexism of hippiedom/the left/the underground?
And the phrase "political correctness" is essentially meaningless... I can't argue with anyone who uses it, because it means... what the hell does it mean, anyway? It started, as pyramid termite pointed out, as a joke. (I still have a button with a little red star on it that reads "Politically Correct," printed circa 1982.) It was meant then to mock those who insisted on certain kinds of orthodoxy within the left; I don't know what it means now, except it's used as a way to shut down discourse.
posted by jokeefe at 7:31 PM on October 9, 2006
Well, you know, it was sexist. I wore out copies of those comic books, so I know the material well, and you can't argue that they weren't. As was much of the counterculture-- where do you think the early impetus for the feminist movements of the early 70s (as well as the organizing strategies and techniques) arose from, if not partially in reaction to the ingrained sexism of hippiedom/the left/the underground?
And the phrase "political correctness" is essentially meaningless... I can't argue with anyone who uses it, because it means... what the hell does it mean, anyway? It started, as pyramid termite pointed out, as a joke. (I still have a button with a little red star on it that reads "Politically Correct," printed circa 1982.) It was meant then to mock those who insisted on certain kinds of orthodoxy within the left; I don't know what it means now, except it's used as a way to shut down discourse.
posted by jokeefe at 7:31 PM on October 9, 2006
Now that I’m a lot older than I was then, I have mixed feelings about those days... especially with regard to sexism. Sure the “Freak Brothers” stuff was sexist but it was a dead on perfect funny depiction of what a lot of us where going thru then and we were delighted to have it.
Getting back to the sexist thing.... I never saved copies of Harry... that kind of behavior was antithetical to the hippie ethic. But a close friend of mine saved them all.
PJ brought me into the paper, and I brought in Michele. I never paid much attention to her writing back then because she was so fine. Anyway, 6 or 7 years ago, I saw those old papers that my friend had saved. Michele was in almost every way a better writer than I was and she was doing feminist issues way back when.
Still... sex is sex... what can a human being do?
posted by Huplescat at 8:24 PM on October 9, 2006
Getting back to the sexist thing.... I never saved copies of Harry... that kind of behavior was antithetical to the hippie ethic. But a close friend of mine saved them all.
PJ brought me into the paper, and I brought in Michele. I never paid much attention to her writing back then because she was so fine. Anyway, 6 or 7 years ago, I saw those old papers that my friend had saved. Michele was in almost every way a better writer than I was and she was doing feminist issues way back when.
Still... sex is sex... what can a human being do?
posted by Huplescat at 8:24 PM on October 9, 2006
but i was so much older then , i'm younger than that now.
posted by nola at 8:34 PM on October 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by nola at 8:34 PM on October 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
I think I got to meet the lady who was once the business partner of the guy who founded the national lampoon. what was his name again, please?
posted by infini at 10:02 PM on October 9, 2006
posted by infini at 10:02 PM on October 9, 2006
NL was fun. I've enjoyed a good amount of their stuff. However...
FAT FREDDY'S CAT RULZ!!!
And remember, you young'uns:
"Peed Skills!, err, Speed Kills!"
posted by Goofyy at 1:21 AM on October 10, 2006
FAT FREDDY'S CAT RULZ!!!
And remember, you young'uns:
"Peed Skills!, err, Speed Kills!"
posted by Goofyy at 1:21 AM on October 10, 2006
Just after I started writing for Harry, we were called to account by a committee of socially responsible leftists for publishing “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers”. They said it was sexist. When I tried to defend it they laughed at me.
Well, you know, it was sexist.
Well, so what? It was funny, which is all it was required to be. Art is not obligated to live up to anyone's ideology.
And the phrase "political correctness" is essentially meaningless...It was meant then to mock those who insisted on certain kinds of orthodoxy within the left;
Far as I'm concerned it means the same thing now, especially when it regards culture. It's basically a catch-all for the type of people who blame racism/the patriarchy/the San Diego Padres when they lose money in a pay phone.
posted by jonmc at 6:35 AM on October 10, 2006
Well, you know, it was sexist.
Well, so what? It was funny, which is all it was required to be. Art is not obligated to live up to anyone's ideology.
And the phrase "political correctness" is essentially meaningless...It was meant then to mock those who insisted on certain kinds of orthodoxy within the left;
Far as I'm concerned it means the same thing now, especially when it regards culture. It's basically a catch-all for the type of people who blame racism/the patriarchy/the San Diego Padres when they lose money in a pay phone.
posted by jonmc at 6:35 AM on October 10, 2006
Well, so what? It was funny, which is all it was required to be. Art is not obligated to live up to anyone's ideology.
Hear, hear. In fact, art and humor die when they try to live up to ideology.
posted by languagehat at 8:44 AM on October 10, 2006
Hear, hear. In fact, art and humor die when they try to live up to ideology.
posted by languagehat at 8:44 AM on October 10, 2006
Funny you mention the Weathermen - and the Freak Bros -- just scanned in a copy of the East Village Other (1970) for Ebay....
posted by RubberHen at 9:02 AM on October 10, 2006
posted by RubberHen at 9:02 AM on October 10, 2006
In the last 60 years I have determined: 1) Be sure you can flunk your pre-induction physical. 2) Always maintain an adequate stock of weapons and a great deal of ammunition, for it gets used up very fast! 3) When in doubt, emulate Fat Freddy's Cat. 4) Keep your Canadian Address pretty much a secret. 5) You have no rights you cannot defend. 6) The United States is always run by despicable arseholes of the worst possible sort. Get over it. They don't know or care anything about you. Cultivate invisibility; it's easy: THEYr'e fools. 7) Be careful. The squeaky tire gets plugged.
posted by amartingoclam at 7:50 AM on October 11, 2006
posted by amartingoclam at 7:50 AM on October 11, 2006
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Partly an indictment of selling out, partly a collection of offensive Jewish/Zionist stereotypes, it was followed up a few years later by Son O' God Meets Zimmerman, whose cliffhanger ending was never resolved(Mercifully, unsurprisingly, or both, you be the judge.).
From The Comic Book and Me, a collection of Dylan-related comics and parodies.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:21 AM on October 9, 2006