Potatoes for everyone
October 20, 2006 7:18 AM Subscribe
Rat race got you down? Grabbing for the brass ring? Looking for a land of jobs and opportunity? Live the Irish Dream!
I was in Ireland (Dublin and Cork) in December. Dublin in particular is crazy right now. There was a 45 minute wait for a able at restaurants anywhere near Temple Bar on a Tuesday night. Two dishes, rice for one and a beer cost me €30 at a very average Thai restaurant.
I told a surveyor 'from the mid-country' I met in a hostel in Cork that I was a planning student and he in turn said that town councils all over Ireland are so desperate for planners that they'll offer signing bonuses for foreigners such as free accomodation and the lease of a car for a year. I'm assuming it's the same with a lot of other professions. If I weren't interested in sticking around Canada for the sake of family I'd really think about it. Ireland's awesome.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2006
I told a surveyor 'from the mid-country' I met in a hostel in Cork that I was a planning student and he in turn said that town councils all over Ireland are so desperate for planners that they'll offer signing bonuses for foreigners such as free accomodation and the lease of a car for a year. I'm assuming it's the same with a lot of other professions. If I weren't interested in sticking around Canada for the sake of family I'd really think about it. Ireland's awesome.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:48 AM on October 20, 2006
Irish luck: You step in dog crap, but you're wearing your OLD shoes.
OK, well apparently not anymore.
posted by mkb at 7:52 AM on October 20, 2006
OK, well apparently not anymore.
posted by mkb at 7:52 AM on October 20, 2006
I was in Ireland briefly, it's got good possibilities, but the levels of racism found there toward non-white immigrants is staggering and something that isn't being talked about in the Times or elsewhere. The other point is that Ireland is now Western Europe biggest polluter. They are burning peat as an alternative to coal in their power plants, but that isn't making the papers in the US either.
posted by parmanparman at 7:56 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by parmanparman at 7:56 AM on October 20, 2006
A friend moved from Wash DC to Cork a few years ago and my impression was the food was bad, the people are mostly old and there is not much to do but drink. But then, he has not come back, so maybe hiding something.
posted by stbalbach at 7:57 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by stbalbach at 7:57 AM on October 20, 2006
From the NYT article - "His mother, 89, told him that her mother, Mary Elizabeth Connery, would be spinning in her grave to think of him moving to Ireland, he said. His grandmother fled Irish poverty, worked as a domestic in Brooklyn, and died there at 83 in 1957, happy never to see Dungarvan County again."
Did Jason Blair write this one then?
posted by Sk4n at 7:58 AM on October 20, 2006
Did Jason Blair write this one then?
posted by Sk4n at 7:58 AM on October 20, 2006
Awesome. If at all possible, I'm going to this job fair tonight. Thanks.
They are burning peat as an alternative to coal in their power plants, but that isn't making the papers in the US either.
Haven't they been doing that for over a century?
posted by bingo at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2006
They are burning peat as an alternative to coal in their power plants, but that isn't making the papers in the US either.
Haven't they been doing that for over a century?
posted by bingo at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2006
I moved here to Ireland just over a year ago from Canada. I sent in my resume to a few recruiters, and had them calling me less than 10 minutes after emailing it in. I had a software development job 10 days after moving here. There's a HUGE tech boom going on here right now, it's crazy.
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on October 20, 2006
The house prices are a huge problem though. It's well and good having a gazillion jobs in IT in Dublin, but if they can't find somewhere to live .... I'm not au fait with the immigration process but I know one of the Filippino nurses who cares for my grandfather can't bring his wife or kids over. He's a great guy, a wonderful nurse and is really contributing, but he'll leave for the UK or US no doubt.
I was in Ireland briefly, it's got good possibilities, but the levels of racism found there toward non-white immigrants is staggering and something that isn't being talked about in the Times or elsewhere
Yeah, although when they wrote about it in the Irish Lonely Planet guide or something a couple of years ago it was big news at home. I'm from Ireland, and as a construction professional could walk back into any number of lucrative jobs there, but the amount of hostility and abuse my (south asian) other half and has received when we're home is unbelieveable and a national embarassment, and certainly accounts for a good part of the reason I don't see myself moving back.
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:22 AM on October 20, 2006
I was in Ireland briefly, it's got good possibilities, but the levels of racism found there toward non-white immigrants is staggering and something that isn't being talked about in the Times or elsewhere
Yeah, although when they wrote about it in the Irish Lonely Planet guide or something a couple of years ago it was big news at home. I'm from Ireland, and as a construction professional could walk back into any number of lucrative jobs there, but the amount of hostility and abuse my (south asian) other half and has received when we're home is unbelieveable and a national embarassment, and certainly accounts for a good part of the reason I don't see myself moving back.
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:22 AM on October 20, 2006
They are burning peat as an alternative to coal in their power plants, but that isn't making the papers in the US either.
thats a lot of shovels.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2006
thats a lot of shovels.
posted by sgt.serenity at 8:26 AM on October 20, 2006
I was just in Dublin visiting relatives a few months ago, and the economy is definitely booming. But it's going to be hard to persuade ex-pats to move back when the real estate prices make San Diego look sane by comparison. Where exactly do they expect the them to live when they return?
posted by Gamblor at 8:28 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by Gamblor at 8:28 AM on October 20, 2006
House prices in Dublin are unbelievable. tiny terrace on the outskirts is going to set you back over a million. I'd wager that even the well-off in Ireland would struggle to buy at that price.
Racism throughout Ireland is disgusting and very widespread (but a result of our previously inward looking society becoming more open. Just an adjustment period I hope).
As a Northerner I really hope all this love between Gerry and Ian will pay dividends for us. The Northern Irish economy has been crap because of all the bickering and years of sectarianism. Ireland is a fantastic example of how the EU can work to countries advantages imho.
posted by twistedonion at 8:31 AM on October 20, 2006
Racism throughout Ireland is disgusting and very widespread (but a result of our previously inward looking society becoming more open. Just an adjustment period I hope).
As a Northerner I really hope all this love between Gerry and Ian will pay dividends for us. The Northern Irish economy has been crap because of all the bickering and years of sectarianism. Ireland is a fantastic example of how the EU can work to countries advantages imho.
posted by twistedonion at 8:31 AM on October 20, 2006
The other point is that Ireland is now Western Europe biggest polluter.
Citation?
posted by mlis at 8:44 AM on October 20, 2006
Citation?
posted by mlis at 8:44 AM on October 20, 2006
But it's going to be hard to persuade ex-pats to move back when the real estate prices make San Diego look sane by comparison. Where exactly do they expect the them to live when they return?
My mum grew up on a farm in rural Co. Meath, 180 miles from Dublin. Her youngest brother inherited the farmhouse my mother gave birth in and the land my grandmother is buried on.
Without going into the details of why too much, he sold off the farmland four or five years ago to a property developer and kept the farmhouse.
The property developer promptly built 'executive homesteads', flogging them off for at about five or six times the price of the land. A two-bedroom flat is going for ooh, around €450,000 ($565,000). My uncle's farmhouse is sitting incongrously in the middle of the blocks and identikit new-builds.
Slowly, people have begun to buy and rent the flats, commuting down the narrow Irish roads to the capital and back. The farmhouse and a plot of land wasn't even properly marked on the map 25 years ago. Don't even ask what the public transport is like.
You see, I can't help feeling people are overstretching themselves and the economy is founded too heavily on debt.
If it does go pop, you can clear a debt in bankruptcy, but seven years later, you're still going to have empty, rotting houses, and to borrow a phrase from Yeats, all will be changed utterly.
posted by randomination at 8:47 AM on October 20, 2006
My mum grew up on a farm in rural Co. Meath, 180 miles from Dublin. Her youngest brother inherited the farmhouse my mother gave birth in and the land my grandmother is buried on.
Without going into the details of why too much, he sold off the farmland four or five years ago to a property developer and kept the farmhouse.
The property developer promptly built 'executive homesteads', flogging them off for at about five or six times the price of the land. A two-bedroom flat is going for ooh, around €450,000 ($565,000). My uncle's farmhouse is sitting incongrously in the middle of the blocks and identikit new-builds.
Slowly, people have begun to buy and rent the flats, commuting down the narrow Irish roads to the capital and back. The farmhouse and a plot of land wasn't even properly marked on the map 25 years ago. Don't even ask what the public transport is like.
You see, I can't help feeling people are overstretching themselves and the economy is founded too heavily on debt.
If it does go pop, you can clear a debt in bankruptcy, but seven years later, you're still going to have empty, rotting houses, and to borrow a phrase from Yeats, all will be changed utterly.
posted by randomination at 8:47 AM on October 20, 2006
[edit: 80 for 180 miles]
posted by randomination at 8:48 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by randomination at 8:48 AM on October 20, 2006
You see, I can't help feeling people are overstretching themselves and the economy is founded too heavily on debt.
No I don't see. The Irish "miracle" is founded on foreign investment - not on Irish debt. The housing boom isn't fueling Irish growth (as it is in many other European countries) it is a result of something entirely new in Ireland: good paying jobs.
Dublin 20 years ago was a damned depressing place and no one should mourn its transformation into a modern European capital.
posted by three blind mice at 9:02 AM on October 20, 2006
No I don't see. The Irish "miracle" is founded on foreign investment - not on Irish debt. The housing boom isn't fueling Irish growth (as it is in many other European countries) it is a result of something entirely new in Ireland: good paying jobs.
Dublin 20 years ago was a damned depressing place and no one should mourn its transformation into a modern European capital.
posted by three blind mice at 9:02 AM on October 20, 2006
Dublin 20 years ago was a damned depressing place and no one should mourn its transformation into a modern European capital.
Can't be stressed enough. EU money paid for this celtic tiger, now it's up to the people to keep the good times rolling. House prices are still far too overvalued though, that's nothing to do with good paying jobs. A young couple earning above average wages in Dublin could not afford to buy there.
posted by twistedonion at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2006
Can't be stressed enough. EU money paid for this celtic tiger, now it's up to the people to keep the good times rolling. House prices are still far too overvalued though, that's nothing to do with good paying jobs. A young couple earning above average wages in Dublin could not afford to buy there.
posted by twistedonion at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2006
What's the rental market like though? If they're really opening up immigration to more that just people with an Irish grandparent (mine is one generation too far back) then I might well seriously consider leaving the US, even if my great grandmother starts spinning in her grave. I already live in a town where I will never be able to afford to buy a home at local salary levels so an overinflated housing market doesn't worry me too much.
posted by mygothlaundry at 9:34 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by mygothlaundry at 9:34 AM on October 20, 2006
Heh, jinx amberglow!
posted by mygothlaundry at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by mygothlaundry at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
The other point is that Ireland is now Western Europe biggest polluter.
According to this report by the European Environment Agency, Ireland isn't the biggest polluter in Western Europe, and also this list of CO2 emissions on Wikipedia seem to say the same thing.
All though per-capita you might actually have a point. :)
posted by public at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
According to this report by the European Environment Agency, Ireland isn't the biggest polluter in Western Europe, and also this list of CO2 emissions on Wikipedia seem to say the same thing.
All though per-capita you might actually have a point. :)
posted by public at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
The other point is that Ireland is now Western Europe biggest polluter.
According to this report by the European Environment Agency, Ireland isn't the biggest polluter in Western Europe, and also this list of CO2 emissions on Wikipedia seem to say the same thing.
All though per-capita you might actually have a point. :)
posted by public at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
According to this report by the European Environment Agency, Ireland isn't the biggest polluter in Western Europe, and also this list of CO2 emissions on Wikipedia seem to say the same thing.
All though per-capita you might actually have a point. :)
posted by public at 9:35 AM on October 20, 2006
*smacks mathowie around a bit with some debouncing form submission javascript*
posted by public at 9:37 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by public at 9:37 AM on October 20, 2006
I don't live in NYC, so is there any listing of jobs, or skills Ireland wants, that I can look at?
posted by triolus at 9:54 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by triolus at 9:54 AM on October 20, 2006
toora loora loora. just a few comments on some of the comments above...
Pollution: The quote above on ireland having very high levels of pollution freaked me out a little. This link on per capita CO2 production does show ireland as very high in europe though.
Property prices are utterly ridiculous, cant find any stats on that though, but then again i'm a lazy swine.
"The Irish Miracle" - any attempts to ascribe Irelands economice growth to one factor alone are simplistic at best. Sorry for the wikipedia link, but this article does do a good overview. Foreign direct investment and eu funds are huge factors though as has been mentioned above.
Renting - i think its pretty reasonable - i rent on Dublins southside, in a place i could never afford to buy, which i guess is the whole point, but yes, renting is very manageable. Look at daft.ie for some quick comparisons.
Lastly, i've no direct experience of racism in ireland, but having heard loads of anecdotal evidence about it all i can say is how totally bloody embarrassing for this country. I can only pray its a blip as someone mentioned above.
posted by kev23f at 10:19 AM on October 20, 2006
Pollution: The quote above on ireland having very high levels of pollution freaked me out a little. This link on per capita CO2 production does show ireland as very high in europe though.
Property prices are utterly ridiculous, cant find any stats on that though, but then again i'm a lazy swine.
"The Irish Miracle" - any attempts to ascribe Irelands economice growth to one factor alone are simplistic at best. Sorry for the wikipedia link, but this article does do a good overview. Foreign direct investment and eu funds are huge factors though as has been mentioned above.
Renting - i think its pretty reasonable - i rent on Dublins southside, in a place i could never afford to buy, which i guess is the whole point, but yes, renting is very manageable. Look at daft.ie for some quick comparisons.
Lastly, i've no direct experience of racism in ireland, but having heard loads of anecdotal evidence about it all i can say is how totally bloody embarrassing for this country. I can only pray its a blip as someone mentioned above.
posted by kev23f at 10:19 AM on October 20, 2006
I bought my tiny house in Dublin in 1996 for IRP54K. It sold last year for a ridiculous multiple of that. There's no way I could afford to live there now.
People in Ireland used to like to say they weren't racist, but that was just because there were so few obvious targets left. The protestant and jewish population in southern Ireland had been successfully ethnically cleansed since the Partition in the 1920s and so it was easy to maintain this fiction. I knew it was shite because in the 1980s one of my college flatmates was a black guy from Donegal and the sheer amount of random abuse he got on the street was amazing. Seriously, just walking along the street and random arseholes would leap in shouting nigger. It was that bad.
Anyway, a lot of Ireland's boom has happened not so much as a direct consequence of EU membership but from a variety of factors. Until the 1980s the State required married women to leave public service. And because the State's nationalised industries accounted for a huge proportion of the econony, this resulted in the bulk of women being effectively excluded from participation in the official economy. Much of the economic boom has resulted from the entrance of women into the economy. And the fact that contraceptives were legally restricted right into the late 1980s led to a demographic boom.
Finally, Ireland functions as a huge laundry for corporate profits and dodgy East European "investments" that need to be washed clean. It offers extremely low tax rates and lax oversight of companies.
Only with the boom and the influx of immigrants was it possible for Irish racism to properly express itself in public to its fullest extent. This was crystallised by a referendum a few years ago that removed the right of citizenship through birth in Ireland, and replaced it instead as a legal favour of the State. Which basically sucks.
Finally, it used to be a paradox that the crude ethnic stereotypes of drunken Irish were in fact false. Ireland used to have one of the lowest rates of alcohol consumption per capita in Europe. But it turns out that this was just an artifact of relative poverty. The boom resulted in windfall profits for publicans, who are one of the main financial supports for politicians. Now Ireland has one of the highest rates, especially in females. So much so that the Irish government is becoming concerned about the medical bills for alcohol damage and is embarking on a multi-year campaign to reduce alcohol consumptions. Which puts Fianna Fail in a struggle against one of its main support lobbies. Good luck with that.
posted by meehawl at 12:48 PM on October 20, 2006
People in Ireland used to like to say they weren't racist, but that was just because there were so few obvious targets left. The protestant and jewish population in southern Ireland had been successfully ethnically cleansed since the Partition in the 1920s and so it was easy to maintain this fiction. I knew it was shite because in the 1980s one of my college flatmates was a black guy from Donegal and the sheer amount of random abuse he got on the street was amazing. Seriously, just walking along the street and random arseholes would leap in shouting nigger. It was that bad.
Anyway, a lot of Ireland's boom has happened not so much as a direct consequence of EU membership but from a variety of factors. Until the 1980s the State required married women to leave public service. And because the State's nationalised industries accounted for a huge proportion of the econony, this resulted in the bulk of women being effectively excluded from participation in the official economy. Much of the economic boom has resulted from the entrance of women into the economy. And the fact that contraceptives were legally restricted right into the late 1980s led to a demographic boom.
Finally, Ireland functions as a huge laundry for corporate profits and dodgy East European "investments" that need to be washed clean. It offers extremely low tax rates and lax oversight of companies.
Only with the boom and the influx of immigrants was it possible for Irish racism to properly express itself in public to its fullest extent. This was crystallised by a referendum a few years ago that removed the right of citizenship through birth in Ireland, and replaced it instead as a legal favour of the State. Which basically sucks.
Finally, it used to be a paradox that the crude ethnic stereotypes of drunken Irish were in fact false. Ireland used to have one of the lowest rates of alcohol consumption per capita in Europe. But it turns out that this was just an artifact of relative poverty. The boom resulted in windfall profits for publicans, who are one of the main financial supports for politicians. Now Ireland has one of the highest rates, especially in females. So much so that the Irish government is becoming concerned about the medical bills for alcohol damage and is embarking on a multi-year campaign to reduce alcohol consumptions. Which puts Fianna Fail in a struggle against one of its main support lobbies. Good luck with that.
posted by meehawl at 12:48 PM on October 20, 2006
IM N UROP BURNIN YER PEET
I don't know why, I just had to.
posted by davejay at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
I don't know why, I just had to.
posted by davejay at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2006 [1 favorite]
The housing boom isn't fueling Irish growth
Around 75K houses are built every year in Ireland. Economists recently estimated that around 250K homes were vacant. These are investment properties that are either being built to flip (and flip again), or are the vacation "homes" that have sprawled along the Atlantic coastline and turned it into one long strip mall.
When you have the equivalent of 3 years of supply sitting vacant, then you know that speculation is driving much of the boom. They are refinancing existing homes and constraining the supply of new houses. Thus, first-time would-be home buyers find themselves priced way up and frequently out of the market. The 50K immigrants per year (most from Poland) are mopping up much of the low-end supply. This is a fragile housing ecology.
Around 12% of the working population is employed in construction and 30% of the official economy works servicing this investor-led property bubble. Around 25% of Irish GNP is based directly on the property bubble.
How long can this boom continue? Dublin house prices are hovering around 100x rental income.
posted by meehawl at 1:39 PM on October 20, 2006
Around 75K houses are built every year in Ireland. Economists recently estimated that around 250K homes were vacant. These are investment properties that are either being built to flip (and flip again), or are the vacation "homes" that have sprawled along the Atlantic coastline and turned it into one long strip mall.
When you have the equivalent of 3 years of supply sitting vacant, then you know that speculation is driving much of the boom. They are refinancing existing homes and constraining the supply of new houses. Thus, first-time would-be home buyers find themselves priced way up and frequently out of the market. The 50K immigrants per year (most from Poland) are mopping up much of the low-end supply. This is a fragile housing ecology.
Around 12% of the working population is employed in construction and 30% of the official economy works servicing this investor-led property bubble. Around 25% of Irish GNP is based directly on the property bubble.
How long can this boom continue? Dublin house prices are hovering around 100x rental income.
posted by meehawl at 1:39 PM on October 20, 2006
meehawl, your "75K houses" should be "housing units," which would include apartments and attached stock as well as stand-alones. Still impressive.
posted by rob511 at 4:47 PM on October 20, 2006
posted by rob511 at 4:47 PM on October 20, 2006
Is the temping system illegal in Ireland?
I may just wind up buying a ticket.
posted by jason's_planet at 4:49 PM on October 20, 2006
Well, I am here in Dublin for the year on a Fulbright Fellowship*, so I can offer a bit of my experience as a US citizen moving to Celtic Tiger Ireland.
1) Rent. I moved here from Ann Arbor, MI, which is also an inflated market, so that may color my perceptions. Our pretty small two-bedroom is on the edge of the city center (we're between the canal and the Liffey, not so far as Guinness to the West) is 1150 euros/mo. We're a hair south of the Liberties, for those familiar with Dublin, so we're not in the expensive part of town by any means. The only way you can get any cheaper is to live in a sketchier part of town (which might bring you down to 900 euros/mo) or to just live in a room with other rent-paying roommates. I think the difficulty here is the same as Ann Arbor on a larger scale - there is simply not enough real estate to create price diversity and there is a planning resistance to make anything higher than about seven stories (and really three to four stories is the rule in downtown Dublin). That does make for a pretty skyline, I suppose, but it also strains the groundspace for new places to live/work.
Our neighborhood thankfully, is quiet, and the good public transportation make it easy to get in the city. It's also a very walkable city anyway, so we often walk in and out of the city centre for errands.
2) Cultural diversity. We live next to the only mosque in Dublin, so our neighborhood is pretty diverse in that there are many Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims here. There are consequently many halal food stores around our area with some more Indian-oriented food stores. I have seen a fair number of Chinese students and a sprinkling of Chinese adults and thusly one or two Chinese import stores. You also sometimes see African immigrants presumably coming through channels opened by the Catholic church. I have yet to see any racist incidents thankfully, although I don't doubt that it happens because Ireland has been a fairly isolated country with little to no inward migration for quite some time. I've experienced plenty of racism in the US, and I think it happens anywhere where cultures interact without having to integrate. I think Ireland's emerging multicultural population is definitely in a transition phase, as there is still a small cultural footprint created by the new populations.
3) Other costs. Eating out kills you if you're on any kind of limited budget. I've eaten at one very good Indian restaurant (Khyber near Grafton) and one pretty good Japanese restaurant (Yamamori on Georges). I've eaten at a couple of places where the cost and quality did not match up and we've had a bit of a hard time finding places like what we had in Ann Arbor - inexpensive, quality food. In the US, in my experience, spending $25 per entree means you're going to a really nice place. Here that's just good (not counting euro to dollar conversion, which would just make me depressed). Electronics seem to be quite a bit more expensive here, and there's not much second-hand goods, nor is there much of a Craigslist, so stocking your apartment can be expensive. Also sometimes you buy American products (I buy English-language manga and other American comics) and they are marked up. I presume it's because they have to be shipped over here. It can be weird to buy something that you know costs $8.99 retail for 10.5 euros, when you might think it would be fewer euros than dollars because of conversion.
4) Weather. Someone told me that every ten years Ireland has a magical summer where it's sunny and mild/warm the whole time and the last one was 1996. The weather here has been terrific the whole time I've been here, but everyone tells me it's a bit of a mirage. Maybe they just don't want me to bring a stampede of Americans over here!
5) Other bits. Generally, the pace of life here is just not as fast as it is in the US. I'm no Joel Fleischmann, and this is not Rosalyn, but I've caught myself getting impatient a few times. The huge upside to that is that it's fairly easy to meet and socialize with people. Because I'm here as an independent researcher, I'm here by myself a lot, but I can tell it's a friendly, sociable culture.
*Hey Twistedonion, I'm the fellow you and your friend took on the mural tour in Belfast last Fall. I've been meaning to get in touch...
posted by Slothrop at 2:13 AM on October 21, 2006
1) Rent. I moved here from Ann Arbor, MI, which is also an inflated market, so that may color my perceptions. Our pretty small two-bedroom is on the edge of the city center (we're between the canal and the Liffey, not so far as Guinness to the West) is 1150 euros/mo. We're a hair south of the Liberties, for those familiar with Dublin, so we're not in the expensive part of town by any means. The only way you can get any cheaper is to live in a sketchier part of town (which might bring you down to 900 euros/mo) or to just live in a room with other rent-paying roommates. I think the difficulty here is the same as Ann Arbor on a larger scale - there is simply not enough real estate to create price diversity and there is a planning resistance to make anything higher than about seven stories (and really three to four stories is the rule in downtown Dublin). That does make for a pretty skyline, I suppose, but it also strains the groundspace for new places to live/work.
Our neighborhood thankfully, is quiet, and the good public transportation make it easy to get in the city. It's also a very walkable city anyway, so we often walk in and out of the city centre for errands.
2) Cultural diversity. We live next to the only mosque in Dublin, so our neighborhood is pretty diverse in that there are many Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims here. There are consequently many halal food stores around our area with some more Indian-oriented food stores. I have seen a fair number of Chinese students and a sprinkling of Chinese adults and thusly one or two Chinese import stores. You also sometimes see African immigrants presumably coming through channels opened by the Catholic church. I have yet to see any racist incidents thankfully, although I don't doubt that it happens because Ireland has been a fairly isolated country with little to no inward migration for quite some time. I've experienced plenty of racism in the US, and I think it happens anywhere where cultures interact without having to integrate. I think Ireland's emerging multicultural population is definitely in a transition phase, as there is still a small cultural footprint created by the new populations.
3) Other costs. Eating out kills you if you're on any kind of limited budget. I've eaten at one very good Indian restaurant (Khyber near Grafton) and one pretty good Japanese restaurant (Yamamori on Georges). I've eaten at a couple of places where the cost and quality did not match up and we've had a bit of a hard time finding places like what we had in Ann Arbor - inexpensive, quality food. In the US, in my experience, spending $25 per entree means you're going to a really nice place. Here that's just good (not counting euro to dollar conversion, which would just make me depressed). Electronics seem to be quite a bit more expensive here, and there's not much second-hand goods, nor is there much of a Craigslist, so stocking your apartment can be expensive. Also sometimes you buy American products (I buy English-language manga and other American comics) and they are marked up. I presume it's because they have to be shipped over here. It can be weird to buy something that you know costs $8.99 retail for 10.5 euros, when you might think it would be fewer euros than dollars because of conversion.
4) Weather. Someone told me that every ten years Ireland has a magical summer where it's sunny and mild/warm the whole time and the last one was 1996. The weather here has been terrific the whole time I've been here, but everyone tells me it's a bit of a mirage. Maybe they just don't want me to bring a stampede of Americans over here!
5) Other bits. Generally, the pace of life here is just not as fast as it is in the US. I'm no Joel Fleischmann, and this is not Rosalyn, but I've caught myself getting impatient a few times. The huge upside to that is that it's fairly easy to meet and socialize with people. Because I'm here as an independent researcher, I'm here by myself a lot, but I can tell it's a friendly, sociable culture.
*Hey Twistedonion, I'm the fellow you and your friend took on the mural tour in Belfast last Fall. I've been meaning to get in touch...
posted by Slothrop at 2:13 AM on October 21, 2006
your "75K houses" should be "housing units,"
You're right. That's an Irish bias coming through - it's either a house or it doesn't exist! Ireland has one of the highest rates of home ownership in the EU. Somepeople say it's a cultural compensation for centuries of enforced renting. Others say it's because of a lack of any sort of rent control or price stabilisation.
posted by meehawl at 7:09 AM on October 21, 2006
You're right. That's an Irish bias coming through - it's either a house or it doesn't exist! Ireland has one of the highest rates of home ownership in the EU. Somepeople say it's a cultural compensation for centuries of enforced renting. Others say it's because of a lack of any sort of rent control or price stabilisation.
posted by meehawl at 7:09 AM on October 21, 2006
Cultural diversity. We live next to the only mosque in Dublin, so our neighborhood is pretty diverse in that there are many Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims here.
Not true. There's a huge mosque in Clonskeagh, right next to UCD (and around the corner from my crib). Perhaps you mean the only mosque in the city centre? And 1150 for a 2 bed is pretty darn good. I'm paying 1000 for a *1* bed in Clonskeagh. However, it's a nice big 1 bed, in a fairly swanky gated development. And in Clonskeagh. (A unit with the same layout as ours is currently for sale for 600k euro). Though when we were looking at 1 beds in Rathmines/Rathgar, we were still looking at 800-900 for SHITTY little apartments.
It's true though, that the house buying market in Dublin is definitely insane right now. I've heard stories of people having trouble selling at the moment though, having to drop prices multiple times to get interest. It could just be in certain areas though, as I know my gf's brother in law is still doing quite well for himself (he's a builder). However, many more folk are moving out to the country and commuting in every day. Theoretically, my girlfriend and I could live in Carlow with her sister (or build a house out there for 200k euro) and commute in to Dublin every day, if we wanted. It would suck, but it would be doable. However, we would be living in Carlow. Thus, we are planning on moving back to Canada, where it's much more reasonable to buy a house
posted by antifuse at 3:51 AM on October 23, 2006
Not true. There's a huge mosque in Clonskeagh, right next to UCD (and around the corner from my crib). Perhaps you mean the only mosque in the city centre? And 1150 for a 2 bed is pretty darn good. I'm paying 1000 for a *1* bed in Clonskeagh. However, it's a nice big 1 bed, in a fairly swanky gated development. And in Clonskeagh. (A unit with the same layout as ours is currently for sale for 600k euro). Though when we were looking at 1 beds in Rathmines/Rathgar, we were still looking at 800-900 for SHITTY little apartments.
It's true though, that the house buying market in Dublin is definitely insane right now. I've heard stories of people having trouble selling at the moment though, having to drop prices multiple times to get interest. It could just be in certain areas though, as I know my gf's brother in law is still doing quite well for himself (he's a builder). However, many more folk are moving out to the country and commuting in every day. Theoretically, my girlfriend and I could live in Carlow with her sister (or build a house out there for 200k euro) and commute in to Dublin every day, if we wanted. It would suck, but it would be doable. However, we would be living in Carlow. Thus, we are planning on moving back to Canada, where it's much more reasonable to buy a house
posted by antifuse at 3:51 AM on October 23, 2006
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posted by clevershark at 7:23 AM on October 20, 2006