ComicsFilter- Civil War Is Over (If You Want It)
February 9, 2007 6:21 AM Subscribe
The premise of Marvel Comic's Civil War storyline is that after a hero-related disaster, the government decides to force all superheroes to register, causing a split in the hero community. While heroes debate and decide which side to join, fans debate whether or not the cross-over series is actually any good. Clearly, Christopher Bird falls squarely on one side and has attempted to "improve" the story by starting a project to edit the dialogue of the series. (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6)
Excellent link. Thank you for starting my morning off right.
posted by Upton O'Good at 6:45 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by Upton O'Good at 6:45 AM on February 9, 2007
This is really good. Man I love the Internet.
posted by chunking express at 6:46 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by chunking express at 6:46 AM on February 9, 2007
In this Civil War, I'm with 52.
But these edits are awesome.
snikt bub.
posted by grabbingsand at 6:48 AM on February 9, 2007
But these edits are awesome.
snikt bub.
posted by grabbingsand at 6:48 AM on February 9, 2007
Thanks for collecting these. I'd seen a couple, but it's awesome to have them all in one place.
And god damn, I'm irritated that the Big Two have sunk back into yearly mega-crossovers. I miss the early part of the decade, when there was that little window where they tried to emphasize quality.
At least Nextwave's not quite finished.
posted by COBRA! at 6:49 AM on February 9, 2007
And god damn, I'm irritated that the Big Two have sunk back into yearly mega-crossovers. I miss the early part of the decade, when there was that little window where they tried to emphasize quality.
At least Nextwave's not quite finished.
posted by COBRA! at 6:49 AM on February 9, 2007
One of the most reassuring things about superheroes is that you can quit a few years (sometimes even a decade!) and find them as you remembered them. So, I was quite a shocked to find likable fellas as Mr Fantastic and IronMan retconned as assholes (and republicans!). I haven't read all of Civil War, but I'm curious to see how they are going to 'fix' the marvel universe. It should have been an Age of Apocalypse spin-off, with no massive repercussion on the continuity. Better an alternate universe than an 'evil clone did it!' ending.
posted by darkripper at 7:36 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by darkripper at 7:36 AM on February 9, 2007
Personally, I'm hoping Civil War ends with the Thing leading an invasion of French heroes, occupying America, beating the life out of the Human Torch for all of those practical jokes.and finally
posted by oddman at 7:49 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by oddman at 7:49 AM on February 9, 2007
REINFORCED GLASS, PINKO! BLOG ABOUT THAT SHIT!
Heh. Genius. The whole thing's genius. Is #4 not done yet or something?
posted by mediareport at 8:02 AM on February 9, 2007
Heh. Genius. The whole thing's genius. Is #4 not done yet or something?
posted by mediareport at 8:02 AM on February 9, 2007
Cortex? Were you trying to sing "Livin' la Vida Logan"? Because that goes "Snikt, snikt, growl snarl growl..."
posted by FritoKAL at 8:07 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by FritoKAL at 8:07 AM on February 9, 2007
Dammit, now you've got "Hungry Like the Wolverine" stuck in my head.
bub snikt snikt snikt bub
bub snikt snitk snitk bub
bub snitk bub bub bub snitk bub
bub snikt snikt snikt bub
bub snikt snitk snitk bub
bub snitk bub bub snitk bub sniiiiiikt
posted by cortex at 8:18 AM on February 9, 2007
bub snikt snikt snikt bub
bub snikt snitk snitk bub
bub snitk bub bub bub snitk bub
bub snikt snikt snikt bub
bub snikt snitk snitk bub
bub snitk bub bub snitk bub sniiiiiikt
posted by cortex at 8:18 AM on February 9, 2007
darkripper
If you're shocked about that, you should probably not look into what they did with Spider-man...
posted by Sangermaine at 8:46 AM on February 9, 2007
If you're shocked about that, you should probably not look into what they did with Spider-man...
posted by Sangermaine at 8:46 AM on February 9, 2007
A friend of mine linked me to #6 earlier in the week, and seeing the page out of context and not having read this series previously I actually stopped in the middle and asked him, "Wait, so is this for real or is this edited?"
I don't know if that's more a comment on the series or the good job this guy's done. It's pretty subtly funny in some spots.
Not so subtle, but the exchange between Namor and Sue killed me because I was thinking, "Wow, could he be sitting in ANY BETTER position to proffer up his crotch?" even before reading the dialogue.
posted by kkokkodalk at 8:58 AM on February 9, 2007
I don't know if that's more a comment on the series or the good job this guy's done. It's pretty subtly funny in some spots.
Not so subtle, but the exchange between Namor and Sue killed me because I was thinking, "Wow, could he be sitting in ANY BETTER position to proffer up his crotch?" even before reading the dialogue.
posted by kkokkodalk at 8:58 AM on February 9, 2007
I don't think he's done #4 yet, and I'm not sure he's really been doing them in order. My favorite is still the Ultimate Power one that casarkos links to. Land's porn faces are so over the top.
posted by JeremyT at 9:11 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by JeremyT at 9:11 AM on February 9, 2007
I hope Marvel doesn't spot this, because Cease and Desist Man would be just around the corner.
posted by illiad at 9:29 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by illiad at 9:29 AM on February 9, 2007
This series blows. Marvel long ago appointed Captain America to be the Voice of Morality, so whatever position he takes is invariably the "correct" one. Therefore there's little suspense about who's in the right and who's wrong in Civil War. Now, if they had shot him into outer space so he wasn't around to be the ethical bellwether, AND they had declined to take the easy way out of painting the guv'mint as being quasi-fascist thugs (these days, SHIELD is invariably used as the jackbooted shock troops of corrupt oppressors seeking to crush individual liberties), maybe the story would've been more interesting.
posted by Midnight Creeper at 9:34 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by Midnight Creeper at 9:34 AM on February 9, 2007
Yeah, I'm not going to be getting anything done today. Thanks.
posted by quin at 9:59 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by quin at 9:59 AM on February 9, 2007
could someone give me the 5-minute version of what the hell happened to spiderman?
posted by tylermoody at 10:38 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by tylermoody at 10:38 AM on February 9, 2007
He was dying, then had some Spider-totem transfusion thingy, then decided to be BFF with Tony Stark, and as a result, Tony gave him a new suit that had mechanical arms and other random junk.
It was really ham-fisted and not subtle foreshadowing of the fact that they'd be aligned together and then have a really big falling out maybe 3 or 4 months down the line.
posted by one.louder.ash! at 10:44 AM on February 9, 2007
It was really ham-fisted and not subtle foreshadowing of the fact that they'd be aligned together and then have a really big falling out maybe 3 or 4 months down the line.
posted by one.louder.ash! at 10:44 AM on February 9, 2007
could someone give me the 5-minute version of what the hell happened to spiderman?
Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a 35-part explanation?
posted by camcgee at 10:47 AM on February 9, 2007
Are you sure you wouldn't prefer a 35-part explanation?
posted by camcgee at 10:47 AM on February 9, 2007
This is impressive stuff -- not just random jokes, but he's actually able to maintain the plot while everyone makes character-appropriate comments (meaning that you have to be a comic geek to get a lot of the jokes).
posted by camcgee at 10:52 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by camcgee at 10:52 AM on February 9, 2007
was quite a shocked to find likable fellas as Mr Fantastic and IronMan retconned as assholes (and republicans!)
Must be the marketing geniuses at Marvel, seizing the opportunity to alienate any "normals" who might be tempted to pick up a comic after seeing the new FF or the forthcoming Iron Man movie.
posted by camcgee at 10:55 AM on February 9, 2007
Must be the marketing geniuses at Marvel, seizing the opportunity to alienate any "normals" who might be tempted to pick up a comic after seeing the new FF or the forthcoming Iron Man movie.
posted by camcgee at 10:55 AM on February 9, 2007
God, I love these, thanks!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:06 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:06 AM on February 9, 2007
Overall I hate Civil War for all the reasons outlined above, but the most recent Fantastic Four threw a curve ball that took a big leap toward making the thing more palatable. SPOILERS BELOW!
Turns out Mr. Fantastic has invented a working version of Hari Seldon's psychohistory (from Asimov's Foundation novels). He's got a mathematical proof that the Superhero Registration act is the right thing to do. The only thing that will prevent a series of events leading to Earth's destruction.
Sue, however, says "Screw doing evil to try to save the Earth. We can save it by doing the right thing like we always have."
That's a set of conflicting motivations that makes a lot more sense for these characters and could make this story interesting. A conflict that reminds me of Tom Godwin's classic, immensely controversial story "The Cold Equations".
posted by straight at 11:34 AM on February 9, 2007
Turns out Mr. Fantastic has invented a working version of Hari Seldon's psychohistory (from Asimov's Foundation novels). He's got a mathematical proof that the Superhero Registration act is the right thing to do. The only thing that will prevent a series of events leading to Earth's destruction.
Sue, however, says "Screw doing evil to try to save the Earth. We can save it by doing the right thing like we always have."
That's a set of conflicting motivations that makes a lot more sense for these characters and could make this story interesting. A conflict that reminds me of Tom Godwin's classic, immensely controversial story "The Cold Equations".
posted by straight at 11:34 AM on February 9, 2007
I hope Marvel doesn't spot this, because Cease and Desist Man would be just around the corner.
Maybe so. But if they have any brains at all, there will be a job offer in the same envelope. This guy's a friggin' genius.
Incredibly awesome link, robocop is bleeding. Thanks!
posted by straight at 11:41 AM on February 9, 2007
Maybe so. But if they have any brains at all, there will be a job offer in the same envelope. This guy's a friggin' genius.
Incredibly awesome link, robocop is bleeding. Thanks!
posted by straight at 11:41 AM on February 9, 2007
New Spiderman looks a hell of a lot like Grendel, don't he?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:43 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:43 AM on February 9, 2007
More commentary about the aforementioned Greg Land's pornface-tracing addiction. And as a bonus, some proof thereof.
posted by grabbingsand at 11:53 AM on February 9, 2007
posted by grabbingsand at 11:53 AM on February 9, 2007
Glad folks like this stuff. I saw mention that more of this sort of thing floats around the web, but when I went to look for it, I saw naught but Spidey shouting "Balls!" and the like.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:02 PM on February 9, 2007
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:02 PM on February 9, 2007
Oh, and Civil War is hella lame. Is Marvel just trying to nuke their classic setting in favor of the Ultimate line?
At least Identity Crisis had, beneath all the heroes suddenly struck with Stupid Syndrome, a pretty moving and human story line about what it means to love a hero and what it means for a hero to love back. I couldn't even read Infinate Crisis outside of the novelization version, which is just so much more stark about Bad Ideas - there should be a rule that all mega-crossover series must be written in novel form first. If it's stupid as text, it'll still be stupid in ink, no matter how heaving the bosoms or taut the muscles.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:07 PM on February 9, 2007
At least Identity Crisis had, beneath all the heroes suddenly struck with Stupid Syndrome, a pretty moving and human story line about what it means to love a hero and what it means for a hero to love back. I couldn't even read Infinate Crisis outside of the novelization version, which is just so much more stark about Bad Ideas - there should be a rule that all mega-crossover series must be written in novel form first. If it's stupid as text, it'll still be stupid in ink, no matter how heaving the bosoms or taut the muscles.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:07 PM on February 9, 2007
I think it's interesting to see reactions to modern comics writing, because while I can't argue against the significant presence of Stupid in some of the things I've read, it seems that the writing in general has gotten so much better over the years.
We recently picked up the Essential X-Men #1 trade paperback (which picks up around X-Men #94, I think? when the new team comes together) as part of an ongoing effort to get a better grounding in some of comics history.
And Christ, it's so classically schlocky, so stupid and repetitive and ham-handed. You can not go a single page, it seems, without an X-Man or a villain referring to him/herself in the third person. Or getting in a ridiculous spat with someone else on the team. Or or or. It's just—bad. Bad bad bad.
I don't follow modern mainstream comics any better than the old stuff, but what I've seen suggests a greater degree of basic writing, characterization, and narrative confidence than that old Stan Lee stuff. It seems like, foibles and stupidity granted, things have improved significantly over the years.
posted by cortex at 12:21 PM on February 9, 2007
We recently picked up the Essential X-Men #1 trade paperback (which picks up around X-Men #94, I think? when the new team comes together) as part of an ongoing effort to get a better grounding in some of comics history.
And Christ, it's so classically schlocky, so stupid and repetitive and ham-handed. You can not go a single page, it seems, without an X-Man or a villain referring to him/herself in the third person. Or getting in a ridiculous spat with someone else on the team. Or or or. It's just—bad. Bad bad bad.
I don't follow modern mainstream comics any better than the old stuff, but what I've seen suggests a greater degree of basic writing, characterization, and narrative confidence than that old Stan Lee stuff. It seems like, foibles and stupidity granted, things have improved significantly over the years.
posted by cortex at 12:21 PM on February 9, 2007
While I agree that in general comics writing has grown over the years (my Marvels Essentials Drug of Choice is Tomb of Dracula), it seems like we're in the midst of a really, really baffling period.
We've been through a long period of "meta" comics that draw attention to the real-world implications of superheroes (Astro City, for example).
So now, we have the Big Two jumping on that wave and riding it, creating this weird sort of flux where folks who would be more at home writing the Bronze age slugfests of days gone by trying to write more sophisticated stories and just kinda bungling it.
I mean, I'd be first in line to buy a graphic novel called "Marvel Heroes Fight Now" and would have no problems reading 96 pages of Cap punching Iron Man blasting Storm zapping Wolverine slicing Spidey webbing Daredevil sucking. But I could not get through the same if it was loading with hamfisted subtext and heroic emo moaning.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:33 PM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
We've been through a long period of "meta" comics that draw attention to the real-world implications of superheroes (Astro City, for example).
So now, we have the Big Two jumping on that wave and riding it, creating this weird sort of flux where folks who would be more at home writing the Bronze age slugfests of days gone by trying to write more sophisticated stories and just kinda bungling it.
I mean, I'd be first in line to buy a graphic novel called "Marvel Heroes Fight Now" and would have no problems reading 96 pages of Cap punching Iron Man blasting Storm zapping Wolverine slicing Spidey webbing Daredevil sucking. But I could not get through the same if it was loading with hamfisted subtext and heroic emo moaning.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:33 PM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
It seems like, foibles and stupidity granted, things have improved significantly over the years
Maybe, but I also feel like maybe it's just that one set of problems have been swapped for another. The dialog and narrative style's not as purple now (usually), but at least those old books were generally aimed to be fun. Now a lot of Marvel/DC stuff (especially Civil War/Infinite Crisis/etc) are neck-deep in this weird masochist effort to prove their maturity by drenching the stories with as much pointless suffering as possible. The villains-speaking-in-the-third-person thing is hella lame, but so's the hot new character to come out of Civil War: Penance, the repentent hero whose costume is an iron maiden filled with one spike for each person killed in the big school explosion at the start of the series.
There's so much stupid-energy in that concept that, if harnessed, it could put a man on the moon.
posted by COBRA! at 12:36 PM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe, but I also feel like maybe it's just that one set of problems have been swapped for another. The dialog and narrative style's not as purple now (usually), but at least those old books were generally aimed to be fun. Now a lot of Marvel/DC stuff (especially Civil War/Infinite Crisis/etc) are neck-deep in this weird masochist effort to prove their maturity by drenching the stories with as much pointless suffering as possible. The villains-speaking-in-the-third-person thing is hella lame, but so's the hot new character to come out of Civil War: Penance, the repentent hero whose costume is an iron maiden filled with one spike for each person killed in the big school explosion at the start of the series.
There's so much stupid-energy in that concept that, if harnessed, it could put a man on the moon.
posted by COBRA! at 12:36 PM on February 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I mean, I'd be first in line to buy a graphic novel called "Marvel Heroes Fight Now" and would have no problems reading 96 pages of Cap punching Iron Man blasting Storm zapping Wolverine slicing Spidey webbing Daredevil sucking. But I could not get through the same if it was loading with hamfisted subtext and heroic emo moaning.
Yep!
Nextwave!
posted by COBRA! at 12:37 PM on February 9, 2007
Yep!
Nextwave!
posted by COBRA! at 12:37 PM on February 9, 2007
Am I wrong, or is Civil War is basically Watchmen rehashed without the subtlty and metaphysics?
posted by Tones at 12:42 PM on February 9, 2007
posted by Tones at 12:42 PM on February 9, 2007
Am I wrong, or is Civil War is basically Watchmen rehashed without the subtlty and metaphysics?
Worse. It's Squadron Supreme rehashed without the subtlety.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:46 PM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
Worse. It's Squadron Supreme rehashed without the subtlety.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:46 PM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
It was one of Marvel's mega-crossovers in the mid-to-late 80's - I don't even remember the name of it now - that turned me off of comic books for good (with a very few, stand-alone, limited-run exceptions). I had been following 3 or 4 Marvel titles, but I decided there was no way I was buying multiple titles every week just to keep up with the story line, and I just quit reading them altogether.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:57 PM on February 9, 2007
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:57 PM on February 9, 2007
There went my afternoon. Super thanks!
Where's part 4? :p
posted by every_one_needs_a_hug_sometimes at 2:33 PM on February 9, 2007
Where's part 4? :p
posted by every_one_needs_a_hug_sometimes at 2:33 PM on February 9, 2007
All my life, science has been really great. But now, Sue's gone, and lemme tell you, science ain't blowing me.
Awesome. Thanks!
posted by graventy at 2:53 PM on February 9, 2007
Awesome. Thanks!
posted by graventy at 2:53 PM on February 9, 2007
These are great. I like how in some places it's almost tricky to tell if they've been re-edited because some of the dialoge sounds like it could actually have come from the orginal text.
Civil War could have been good. I willing to bet that most caped comics fans would not be comfortable with the idea of vigilantism in real life, and so Civil War could have been a way to hold a mirror up to what fans find acceptable in superheroes that wouldn't transfer over into the fan's world, and why that is. Instead they got a bloated, one-sided mess. Bah.
(Also, for those of you wondering about the missing fourth issue, I believe it's because Bird started doing these parodies after issue five came out, and then decided to start from the beginning after the orginal parody recieved such a good response.)
posted by kosher_jenny at 4:25 PM on February 9, 2007
Civil War could have been good. I willing to bet that most caped comics fans would not be comfortable with the idea of vigilantism in real life, and so Civil War could have been a way to hold a mirror up to what fans find acceptable in superheroes that wouldn't transfer over into the fan's world, and why that is. Instead they got a bloated, one-sided mess. Bah.
(Also, for those of you wondering about the missing fourth issue, I believe it's because Bird started doing these parodies after issue five came out, and then decided to start from the beginning after the orginal parody recieved such a good response.)
posted by kosher_jenny at 4:25 PM on February 9, 2007
But where is the conclusion? Several people alluded to their intention to retain She Hulk as legal counsel, and I need to know how those lawsuits for personal injury come out.
I can't stand the suspense...
posted by quin at 4:57 PM on February 9, 2007
I can't stand the suspense...
posted by quin at 4:57 PM on February 9, 2007
Civil War could have been good. I willing to bet that most caped comics fans would not be comfortable with the idea of vigilantism in real life...
I did a little navel-gazing a couple weeks ago and it occurred to me that both positions in Marvel's Civil War were rather right-wing tinfoil hat. It's masked vigilantes vs. Federal Minutemen. Neither position is particularly 'law-abiding', Constitutional or sane. It's sort of like Bernard Goetz vs. Oliver North – no place for sensible public policy when the two of them are trading talking points.
posted by vhsiv at 5:03 PM on February 9, 2007
I did a little navel-gazing a couple weeks ago and it occurred to me that both positions in Marvel's Civil War were rather right-wing tinfoil hat. It's masked vigilantes vs. Federal Minutemen. Neither position is particularly 'law-abiding', Constitutional or sane. It's sort of like Bernard Goetz vs. Oliver North – no place for sensible public policy when the two of them are trading talking points.
posted by vhsiv at 5:03 PM on February 9, 2007
Awesome! This is the most I've enjoyed anything Marvel since I was a kid. Thanks!
posted by homunculus at 6:40 PM on February 9, 2007
posted by homunculus at 6:40 PM on February 9, 2007
That was spectactularly amazing.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:23 PM on February 9, 2007
posted by solid-one-love at 8:23 PM on February 9, 2007
Thanks! Was looking for it!
posted by every_one_needs_a_hug_sometimes at 6:53 PM on February 22, 2007
posted by every_one_needs_a_hug_sometimes at 6:53 PM on February 22, 2007
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posted by cortex at 6:44 AM on February 9, 2007 [2 favorites]