The study did not address whether adding a little cocktail umbrella enhanced the effects.
April 22, 2007 3:26 PM Subscribe
On a serious note, as a total non-scientist, I'm always fairly skeptical when I see random fruit juices trumpet their antioxidant capability. Am I right or do they have a point? It seems quite the leap to go from "x type of substance can react in favourable way in body" to "hey, let's consume something that has more x than other things do!"
posted by Firas at 3:37 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Firas at 3:37 PM on April 22, 2007
Woo hooo!
[Raises strawberry margarita into the air]
posted by miss lynnster at 3:40 PM on April 22, 2007
[Raises strawberry margarita into the air]
posted by miss lynnster at 3:40 PM on April 22, 2007
From the first link:
The study did not address whether adding a little cocktail umbrella enhanced the effects.
Heh.
posted by dhammond at 3:41 PM on April 22, 2007
The study did not address whether adding a little cocktail umbrella enhanced the effects.
Heh.
posted by dhammond at 3:41 PM on April 22, 2007
Dos it still count if I just vomited up all the strawberries and pineapple? Cuz I did.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:43 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:43 PM on April 22, 2007
the problem with this is that antioxidants are bad for you
posted by bhnyc at 3:48 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by bhnyc at 3:48 PM on April 22, 2007
Thank you. This post just validated my weekend. And my college years. And my 20's.
posted by suki at 3:49 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by suki at 3:49 PM on April 22, 2007
Another study shows that the antioxidant qualities are further enhanced by giving the drink a suggestive name and serving it during a wet T-shirt contest.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 3:49 PM on April 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 3:49 PM on April 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I can't wait until they discover getting crabs from a 19 year old in the bathroom of a trendy bar is good for you. Because that's where the night is headed!
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:53 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:53 PM on April 22, 2007
Ah, the seductive call of ExtraTerrestrialPseudoNecroPhilia!
posted by Firas at 3:56 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Firas at 3:56 PM on April 22, 2007
I'm always fairly skeptical when I see random fruit juices trumpet their antioxidant capability. Am I right or do they have a point?
Well, a bit of both. It's a bit like, "Scientists and health professionals advocate walking to your favorite bar instead of driving." And if you can pick a bar that's a couple miles down the road, even healthier!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:02 PM on April 22, 2007
Well, a bit of both. It's a bit like, "Scientists and health professionals advocate walking to your favorite bar instead of driving." And if you can pick a bar that's a couple miles down the road, even healthier!
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:02 PM on April 22, 2007
Hamburgers, cigarettes, coffee and ice cream are good for you too. They just won't help you live longer.
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:13 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Citizen Premier at 4:13 PM on April 22, 2007
I want more oxidants in my diet. Can anyone suggest tasty, easy to ingest sources of these?
posted by rhymer at 4:19 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by rhymer at 4:19 PM on April 22, 2007
OverlappingElvis: the tiny umbrella's obvious benefit is protecting your drink — and your eager lips — from UV rays.
posted by rob511 at 4:19 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by rob511 at 4:19 PM on April 22, 2007
firas - I'm always fairly skeptical when I see random fruit juices trumpet their antioxidant capability. Am I right or do they have a point?
SCIENCE! doesn't really know yet. The idea that oxidative stress is a contributor to some diseases and possibly aging is sound - whether dietary antioxidants are bioavailable to reduce oxidative stress... no-one knows for sure.
Here's the review that bhnyc's article probably drew from. I think the findings for increased mortality (note, not morbidity - quality of life, but mortality - death) is due mainly to the kinds of people who take dietary supplements. Note also that the risk ratios are miniscule. They are able to claim "significant" differences mainly because they have a pretty big sample size.
While looking through review articles, I ran across this one purporting that there is a big component of oxidative stress and Alzheimer's disease (very true) and that antioxidants may be a potential therapy.
Nice line, but... it's becoming more clear that hypoxia (no oxygen in the brain - strokes, heart disease, smoking, &c) a) stabilizes beta-secretase protein and enhances transcription of beta-secratase - the enzyme that cleaves APP into A-beta; which is the foundation for neuritic plaques and neurofibrilary tanlges (and synthetic A-beta is directly neurotoxic) that are the hallmarks of Alzheimers. So, antioxidants, especially dietary antixodiants, probably won't do much good. (Normally, APP is cleaved by alpha- and gamma- secretase into non-toxic peptides.)
Still, fresh fruits and vegetables are good for you. Fibre. Fibre. Fibre! Vitamins are also still really important, if not necessarily for their antioxidant properties. ("Antioxidants" are just molecules that are easier to oxidize than, hopefully, important proteins and DNA in your cells. Soaking up free radicals is great, but if you're relying on vitamins to do that, you no longer have a functional vitamin molecules. Who knows - the oxidized vitamin molecule may go on to do bad things. There are much better antioxidants than vitamins, anyway, if you're really concerned by ... OMGterrorists Free Radicals!
posted by porpoise at 4:28 PM on April 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
SCIENCE! doesn't really know yet. The idea that oxidative stress is a contributor to some diseases and possibly aging is sound - whether dietary antioxidants are bioavailable to reduce oxidative stress... no-one knows for sure.
Here's the review that bhnyc's article probably drew from. I think the findings for increased mortality (note, not morbidity - quality of life, but mortality - death) is due mainly to the kinds of people who take dietary supplements. Note also that the risk ratios are miniscule. They are able to claim "significant" differences mainly because they have a pretty big sample size.
While looking through review articles, I ran across this one purporting that there is a big component of oxidative stress and Alzheimer's disease (very true) and that antioxidants may be a potential therapy.
Nice line, but... it's becoming more clear that hypoxia (no oxygen in the brain - strokes, heart disease, smoking, &c) a) stabilizes beta-secretase protein and enhances transcription of beta-secratase - the enzyme that cleaves APP into A-beta; which is the foundation for neuritic plaques and neurofibrilary tanlges (and synthetic A-beta is directly neurotoxic) that are the hallmarks of Alzheimers. So, antioxidants, especially dietary antixodiants, probably won't do much good. (Normally, APP is cleaved by alpha- and gamma- secretase into non-toxic peptides.)
Still, fresh fruits and vegetables are good for you. Fibre. Fibre. Fibre! Vitamins are also still really important, if not necessarily for their antioxidant properties. ("Antioxidants" are just molecules that are easier to oxidize than, hopefully, important proteins and DNA in your cells. Soaking up free radicals is great, but if you're relying on vitamins to do that, you no longer have a functional vitamin molecules. Who knows - the oxidized vitamin molecule may go on to do bad things. There are much better antioxidants than vitamins, anyway, if you're really concerned by ... OMG
posted by porpoise at 4:28 PM on April 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
It seems quite the leap to go from "x type of substance can react in favourable way in body" to "hey, let's consume something that has more x than other things do!"
I agree, Firas. That specious attitude is called "nutritionism" and it's been addressed here.
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:48 PM on April 22, 2007
I agree, Firas. That specious attitude is called "nutritionism" and it's been addressed here.
posted by QuietDesperation at 4:48 PM on April 22, 2007
Call me when they figure out a way to make a baclava martini.
posted by Dizzy at 4:54 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Dizzy at 4:54 PM on April 22, 2007
To quote: "Berries, for instance, contain compounds known as polyphenols and anthocyanins. People who eat more of these fruits and vegetables have a documented lower risk of cancer, heart disease and some neurological diseases."
But adding alcohol to them increases people's documented risks of some cancers, liver disease and some neurological problems.
I like my booze, but not because I think it's healthier than not drinking. How bad can things be that they're trying to push hard liquor as health food? Is it the economy again or what?
And porpoise, I had to quit smoking tobacco 7 years ago when a) it aggravated my asthma so badly I couldn't climb stairs -- at 37 years old, and b) a h4wt young net.babe read my Usenet posts for four years and STILL let me move in -- who's allergic to tobacco. Lately I've been feeling that I thought more clearly and wrote better when I had nicotine coursing through my system, so I've been considering getting nicotine gum or patches to use as literary helps. (I've got to squeeze this one novel I've been carrying around inside me for 15 years out into the Real World somehow.) Do you now of any data that's pertinent to that one way or another?
posted by davy at 7:10 PM on April 22, 2007
But adding alcohol to them increases people's documented risks of some cancers, liver disease and some neurological problems.
I like my booze, but not because I think it's healthier than not drinking. How bad can things be that they're trying to push hard liquor as health food? Is it the economy again or what?
And porpoise, I had to quit smoking tobacco 7 years ago when a) it aggravated my asthma so badly I couldn't climb stairs -- at 37 years old, and b) a h4wt young net.babe read my Usenet posts for four years and STILL let me move in -- who's allergic to tobacco. Lately I've been feeling that I thought more clearly and wrote better when I had nicotine coursing through my system, so I've been considering getting nicotine gum or patches to use as literary helps. (I've got to squeeze this one novel I've been carrying around inside me for 15 years out into the Real World somehow.) Do you now of any data that's pertinent to that one way or another?
posted by davy at 7:10 PM on April 22, 2007
davy--
Despair not!
You can enjoy a rich diet of wholesome foods AND receive the precious nicotine you eternally crave!
Eggs Florentine:
1 cup Bechamel sauce
sauteed spinach
3 eggs
2 pieces Nicorette gum
Heat; combine; enjoy!
RJR BLT:
Bacon
Lettuce
Tomato
2 pieces Nicorette gum
Layer onto toasted whole-grain bread; enjoy!
posted by Dizzy at 7:45 PM on April 22, 2007
Despair not!
You can enjoy a rich diet of wholesome foods AND receive the precious nicotine you eternally crave!
Eggs Florentine:
1 cup Bechamel sauce
sauteed spinach
3 eggs
2 pieces Nicorette gum
Heat; combine; enjoy!
RJR BLT:
Bacon
Lettuce
Tomato
2 pieces Nicorette gum
Layer onto toasted whole-grain bread; enjoy!
posted by Dizzy at 7:45 PM on April 22, 2007
davy - nicotine's a great drug; there are a lot of excitatory neurons with nicotinic acetylcholine receptors so I'm not surprised if it can impart mild cognitive enhancement (similar to what's been demonstrated reasonably well with caffeine).
Too bad a lot of dopaminergic neurons also have nicotinic AChR, too (dopamine isn't really a "reward" or "hedonistic" neurotransmitter, it has a lot more to do with learning/anticipation/motivation - the unfortunate thing about nicotine is that it "teaches" your CNS that smoking is good).
Nicotine (apart from it's high addictive value) isn't necessarily a bad drug - it's mostly the delivery mechanism (smoking) that's really bad.
I'm an evil cigarette smoker (and I've noticed enhancement in wakefulness, but any cognitive enhancements could easily be due to rest, fresh air, walking, &c), but I've enjoyed snus. No salivation, doesn't taste bad, and you still get the nicotine.
Long-term studies in Swedish snus users hasn't found significant increases in oral cancer compared to population controls. No idea whether the moist tobacco leaves have any levels of antioxidants like tea does.
posted by porpoise at 8:07 PM on April 22, 2007
Too bad a lot of dopaminergic neurons also have nicotinic AChR, too (dopamine isn't really a "reward" or "hedonistic" neurotransmitter, it has a lot more to do with learning/anticipation/motivation - the unfortunate thing about nicotine is that it "teaches" your CNS that smoking is good).
Nicotine (apart from it's high addictive value) isn't necessarily a bad drug - it's mostly the delivery mechanism (smoking) that's really bad.
I'm an evil cigarette smoker (and I've noticed enhancement in wakefulness, but any cognitive enhancements could easily be due to rest, fresh air, walking, &c), but I've enjoyed snus. No salivation, doesn't taste bad, and you still get the nicotine.
Long-term studies in Swedish snus users hasn't found significant increases in oral cancer compared to population controls. No idea whether the moist tobacco leaves have any levels of antioxidants like tea does.
posted by porpoise at 8:07 PM on April 22, 2007
Interesting article, QuietDesperation: "“The problem with nutrient-by-nutrient nutrition science,” points out Marion Nestle, the New York University nutritionist, “is that it takes the nutrient out of the context of food, the food out of the context of diet and the diet out of the context of lifestyle.”"
posted by Listener at 10:14 PM on April 22, 2007
posted by Listener at 10:14 PM on April 22, 2007
and since the dose makes the poison and alcohol in moderate doses does appear to be good for you (good for cardiovascular system, brain), it would make sense that fruity drinks in moderation would be good for you.
fruit itself in excess is probably fine (you don't hear about fat fruitarians or even about any fruitarians for that matter), but alcohol in excess, not so much.
posted by Maias at 5:54 PM on April 23, 2007
fruit itself in excess is probably fine (you don't hear about fat fruitarians or even about any fruitarians for that matter), but alcohol in excess, not so much.
posted by Maias at 5:54 PM on April 23, 2007
Fruit killed the lead guitarist of Duran Duran.
Watch out for fruit.
posted by Dizzy at 6:51 PM on April 23, 2007
Watch out for fruit.
posted by Dizzy at 6:51 PM on April 23, 2007
@davy:
Lately I've been feeling that I thought more clearly and wrote better when...
um, when you were in your mid-thirties as opposed to mid-forties? I hate to break this to you, but...nicotine may not be the major factor.
I'm also struggling to come to terms with this. The last time I had to learn a major new API under pressure was for example significantly harder than it would have been 10 years ago.
posted by lastobelus at 8:07 PM on April 23, 2007
Lately I've been feeling that I thought more clearly and wrote better when...
um, when you were in your mid-thirties as opposed to mid-forties? I hate to break this to you, but...nicotine may not be the major factor.
I'm also struggling to come to terms with this. The last time I had to learn a major new API under pressure was for example significantly harder than it would have been 10 years ago.
posted by lastobelus at 8:07 PM on April 23, 2007
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posted by DenOfSizer at 3:29 PM on April 22, 2007