How I spent the war
June 1, 2007 12:03 AM Subscribe
How I spent the war. German writer and Nobel Prize winner, Günter Grass tells the story of his tour of duty in the Waffen S.S. (previously )
Yes, I loves me some Grass (novels) but I'm having a hard time loving Grass (the man) right now.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:10 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:10 AM on June 1, 2007
They were smoking and drinking coffee with milk out of big, bulbous cups. One of these—from my perspective—elderly gentlemen (the sergeant?) was sharpening a supply of pencils while I spoke. Or did I pick up this dramatic detail from some movie or other?
And then...
Mother’s take on the general situation boiled down to the following: “I have my doubts.” Though I once heard her say, “Too bad Hess is gone. I liked him better than our Führer.” She was also known to come out with “I can’t understand why they’ve got it in for the Jews. We used to have a haberdashery sales rep by the name of Zuckermann. As nice as could be, and always gave a discount.”
I suppose he picked up that sympathetic detail from some post-war impression as well.
posted by three blind mice at 2:12 AM on June 1, 2007
And then...
Mother’s take on the general situation boiled down to the following: “I have my doubts.” Though I once heard her say, “Too bad Hess is gone. I liked him better than our Führer.” She was also known to come out with “I can’t understand why they’ve got it in for the Jews. We used to have a haberdashery sales rep by the name of Zuckermann. As nice as could be, and always gave a discount.”
I suppose he picked up that sympathetic detail from some post-war impression as well.
posted by three blind mice at 2:12 AM on June 1, 2007
I don;t know why, but I thought of Cat and Mouse reading this. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia entry on that work:
"The narrative style — the evasion, self-justification, and eventual, chatty disclosure of the truth — is also characteristic."
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:16 AM on June 1, 2007
"The narrative style — the evasion, self-justification, and eventual, chatty disclosure of the truth — is also characteristic."
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 2:16 AM on June 1, 2007
How I spent the weekend: digging in my garden, a short walk from where Grass grew up, pulling bits of broken glass and broken brick and broken bone from the dirt. For a rest, I walked in the woods, where I met a man with a metal detector over his shoulder. He knew my name though I had no idea who he was. He showed me metal buttons, some Free City coins, and a large shell casing he had found that day. Back in my garden later, I dug up a stone age tool.
posted by pracowity at 2:34 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 2:34 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
I may be a crazy person, but I find Grass's history and hypocrisy to be strangely touching.
Thanks for the fascinating read.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:03 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Thanks for the fascinating read.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:03 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yes, I loves me some Grass (novels) but I'm having a hard time loving Grass (the man) right now.
"Trust the art and not the artist"?
posted by pax digita at 4:03 AM on June 1, 2007
"Trust the art and not the artist"?
posted by pax digita at 4:03 AM on June 1, 2007
I'm reading Dog Years for the third time, right now. I have no idea what to make of this, yet. They've called him the conscience of his nation. He worked tirelessly after the war to heal things, and for that he gets my respect. So many Germans were complicit by their silence, acquiescence, and a desire to "keep their heads down" until it was all over, and so many more joined right in with the madness for reasons they can't seem to even give words to. At least he's trying.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:09 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:09 AM on June 1, 2007
If you at all believe in rehabilitation, redemption, you have to forgive guys like this for things they did as boys in very difficult circumstances.
Some folk have a problem with his having kept it secret all that time, but I don't see the point in that, either. Any good he did after the war depended on people listening to him, not scorning him.
But people are vengeful.
posted by pracowity at 5:30 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
Some folk have a problem with his having kept it secret all that time, but I don't see the point in that, either. Any good he did after the war depended on people listening to him, not scorning him.
But people are vengeful.
posted by pracowity at 5:30 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
He wasn't even 10 when Hilter came to power. German Propaganda was pretty effective, or so I've heard.
And it seems the good he has done since he was a child far outweighs a couple of years as a pawn in a war zone.
"I suppose he picked up that sympathetic detail from some post-war impression as well."
Why do you suppose that? Seemed like a genuine response from normal people who have been effectively "brainwashed" yet understand that it's not quite right. Kinda like "I've nothing against **your favourite stereotype here**myself, in fact I know a ** stereotype again** who is a really lovely guy"
i've heard this often enough to completely relate.
posted by twistedonion at 6:08 AM on June 1, 2007
And it seems the good he has done since he was a child far outweighs a couple of years as a pawn in a war zone.
"I suppose he picked up that sympathetic detail from some post-war impression as well."
Why do you suppose that? Seemed like a genuine response from normal people who have been effectively "brainwashed" yet understand that it's not quite right. Kinda like "I've nothing against **your favourite stereotype here**myself, in fact I know a ** stereotype again** who is a really lovely guy"
i've heard this often enough to completely relate.
posted by twistedonion at 6:08 AM on June 1, 2007
They've called him the conscience of his nation. He worked tirelessly after the war to heal things, and for that he gets my respect.
One should not overrate Grass' contributions just because he writes well.
Many, many other Germans have worked hard to heal the past. Even those of my generation who were born 20 years after it ended and were guilty of nothing other than being German. The Germans deal more honestly and more openly with their past than just about any other nation on Earth.
Not hiding and denying the past is part of the modern German ethos that "the conscience of his nation" failed to embrace. A bit of scorn seems not untoward.
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM on June 1, 2007
One should not overrate Grass' contributions just because he writes well.
Many, many other Germans have worked hard to heal the past. Even those of my generation who were born 20 years after it ended and were guilty of nothing other than being German. The Germans deal more honestly and more openly with their past than just about any other nation on Earth.
Not hiding and denying the past is part of the modern German ethos that "the conscience of his nation" failed to embrace. A bit of scorn seems not untoward.
posted by three blind mice at 6:11 AM on June 1, 2007
If you at all believe in rehabilitation, redemption, you have to forgive guys like this for things they did as boys in very difficult circumstances.
Yes, but what he did as an adult under far less difficult circumstances is another matter altogether.
posted by three blind mice at 6:17 AM on June 1, 2007
Yes, but what he did as an adult under far less difficult circumstances is another matter altogether.
posted by three blind mice at 6:17 AM on June 1, 2007
Well, I don't exactly see why keeping his membership secret for so long is really that big of a deal. I mean, why do you have a right to know anyway?
posted by delmoi at 6:51 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by delmoi at 6:51 AM on June 1, 2007
Meanwhile, in Poland a greatly admired writer supposedly has been found to have been a police informant during the communist era, while the conservative government continues to hunt for other witches under their beds.
Yes, but what he did as an adult under far less difficult circumstances is another matter altogether.
Ah, you must mean the bodies they found buried in his garden.
From what I can see, it's a largely politicized argument: he generally leaned to the left and annoyed right-wingers, so now the right in particular would like to maximize his embarrassment and, by association, discredit anything embarrassing he might have said or written about them. It's an understandable reflex.
posted by pracowity at 6:52 AM on June 1, 2007
Yes, but what he did as an adult under far less difficult circumstances is another matter altogether.
Ah, you must mean the bodies they found buried in his garden.
From what I can see, it's a largely politicized argument: he generally leaned to the left and annoyed right-wingers, so now the right in particular would like to maximize his embarrassment and, by association, discredit anything embarrassing he might have said or written about them. It's an understandable reflex.
posted by pracowity at 6:52 AM on June 1, 2007
I found the "I joined the SS because I couldn't stand ma and pa having sex," bit hard to interpret... was i supposed to laugh? the freudianism seemed pretty earnest.
posted by geos at 7:35 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by geos at 7:35 AM on June 1, 2007
Well, I don't exactly see why keeping his membership secret for so long is really that big of a deal. I mean, why do you have a right to know anyway?
It's not about my rights - it's about the the post-war German ethos. Coming clean and not hiding the past and confronting it and trying to make amends has been a huge achievement for the German people and for humanity in general. It is utterly remarkable in the annals of human history. Maybe Grass' preaching helped that, but by not embracing it himself he's greatly diminished in my eyes.
posted by three blind mice at 7:47 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's not about my rights - it's about the the post-war German ethos. Coming clean and not hiding the past and confronting it and trying to make amends has been a huge achievement for the German people and for humanity in general. It is utterly remarkable in the annals of human history. Maybe Grass' preaching helped that, but by not embracing it himself he's greatly diminished in my eyes.
posted by three blind mice at 7:47 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
i'm with Sticherbeast
I admit that I've only read a smattering of Grass, but I enjoyed him for his sad humanism. Human's get hurt and fail and fuck up and feel ashamed and sometimes redeem themselves. I think it was cowardly for Grass to hide his past, but very human.
posted by es_de_bah at 9:08 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
I admit that I've only read a smattering of Grass, but I enjoyed him for his sad humanism. Human's get hurt and fail and fuck up and feel ashamed and sometimes redeem themselves. I think it was cowardly for Grass to hide his past, but very human.
posted by es_de_bah at 9:08 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
People are complicated. You would think people who enjoy reading literature would understand this better than most.
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:39 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by Jess the Mess at 11:39 AM on June 1, 2007
THIS DAMN THING ISN'T WORKING!!!!
*beats toy drum even more furiously*
posted by Smart Dalek at 11:40 AM on June 1, 2007
*beats toy drum even more furiously*
posted by Smart Dalek at 11:40 AM on June 1, 2007
"I think it was cowardly for Grass to hide his past, but very human."
Absolutely, es-de-bah. Feeling betrayed now this has come out is likewise human.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:06 PM on June 1, 2007
Absolutely, es-de-bah. Feeling betrayed now this has come out is likewise human.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:06 PM on June 1, 2007
He worked tirelessly after the war to heal things, and for that he gets my respect.
He doesn't deserve our respect. Gunter Grass, famous for his moralizing, held some utterly bizarre views. Here's a random sampling (from memory and paraphrased):
1. He was fiercely against German reunification. In his view, Germany's division was its historical penance for Auschwitz. Never mind that it was mostly people in East Germany who paid the price with secret service observations, no freedom to travel and really really bad movies.
2. He also thought that once Germany was reunified, it would inevitably fall back into its old habits of warmongering and fascism, leading to another Auschwitz. Guess he was wrong again. Germany today is about the most relaxed it ever was.
3. After Auschwitz, it is not possible to write poetry anymore. All poetry and fiction should be directed at preventing another Auschwitz. I guess it is fair to say that he is possessed with Auschwitz.
4. His reaction to 9/11? A call to convert churches in Germany to mosques. To, uh, foster understanding for our mullah neighors. Or something. Oh, and a Muslim holiday or two would be nice.
5. And this was his reaction to the Danish caricature brawl: "Why is the West so arrogant to believe it can tell the world how to behave?" Uh, mostly because killing people and torching embassies over some stupid cartoons is a bad idea? I mean if this is not universally accepted common ground, then I wonder how much common ground is left between Grass and me.
Gunter Grass doesn't have a moral compass -- he has a moral club or mace, in fact he is the personified Moralkeule.
So, given his bizarre worldview, it is astonishing how much moral authority he used to wield, even before coming out as an SS member. Maybe it can partially be explained with his good political connections.
And he is not even a good writer. Doesn't anyone else find his style unbearable? Even in the translation into English it reads like walking through molasses. Or drinking coffee milk. Sad humanism my foot - the guy's a hack.
posted by sour cream at 12:08 PM on June 1, 2007
He doesn't deserve our respect. Gunter Grass, famous for his moralizing, held some utterly bizarre views. Here's a random sampling (from memory and paraphrased):
1. He was fiercely against German reunification. In his view, Germany's division was its historical penance for Auschwitz. Never mind that it was mostly people in East Germany who paid the price with secret service observations, no freedom to travel and really really bad movies.
2. He also thought that once Germany was reunified, it would inevitably fall back into its old habits of warmongering and fascism, leading to another Auschwitz. Guess he was wrong again. Germany today is about the most relaxed it ever was.
3. After Auschwitz, it is not possible to write poetry anymore. All poetry and fiction should be directed at preventing another Auschwitz. I guess it is fair to say that he is possessed with Auschwitz.
4. His reaction to 9/11? A call to convert churches in Germany to mosques. To, uh, foster understanding for our mullah neighors. Or something. Oh, and a Muslim holiday or two would be nice.
5. And this was his reaction to the Danish caricature brawl: "Why is the West so arrogant to believe it can tell the world how to behave?" Uh, mostly because killing people and torching embassies over some stupid cartoons is a bad idea? I mean if this is not universally accepted common ground, then I wonder how much common ground is left between Grass and me.
Gunter Grass doesn't have a moral compass -- he has a moral club or mace, in fact he is the personified Moralkeule.
So, given his bizarre worldview, it is astonishing how much moral authority he used to wield, even before coming out as an SS member. Maybe it can partially be explained with his good political connections.
And he is not even a good writer. Doesn't anyone else find his style unbearable? Even in the translation into English it reads like walking through molasses. Or drinking coffee milk. Sad humanism my foot - the guy's a hack.
posted by sour cream at 12:08 PM on June 1, 2007
*the opposite of what sour cream wrote*
thanks for posting, afu
posted by aquanaut at 2:24 PM on June 1, 2007
thanks for posting, afu
posted by aquanaut at 2:24 PM on June 1, 2007
This was a pretty interesting piece and fun to read. It illustrates pretty well that he was just a stupid kid at the time.
As for his being a moralizing asshole afterward; who cares. Lots of great writers and artists are just complete assholes.
posted by snsranch at 4:08 PM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
As for his being a moralizing asshole afterward; who cares. Lots of great writers and artists are just complete assholes.
posted by snsranch at 4:08 PM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Whatever else you might want to say about Günther Grass, the guy is most certainly not a hack.
posted by muckster at 4:40 PM on June 1, 2007
posted by muckster at 4:40 PM on June 1, 2007
You would think people who enjoy reading literature would understand this better than most.
Reading Literature? That's like reading the article except longer and even less likely.
posted by srboisvert at 4:49 PM on June 1, 2007
Reading Literature? That's like reading the article except longer and even less likely.
posted by srboisvert at 4:49 PM on June 1, 2007
Even in the translation into English it reads like walking through molasses.
It probably felt that way to recollect most of it, too. I knew enough of Grass not to expect peppy, punchy writing, so it wasn't a problem for me -- it felt like what one gets from listening to an elderly man recount his life, which is what this was, after all.
posted by pax digita at 6:25 PM on June 1, 2007
It probably felt that way to recollect most of it, too. I knew enough of Grass not to expect peppy, punchy writing, so it wasn't a problem for me -- it felt like what one gets from listening to an elderly man recount his life, which is what this was, after all.
posted by pax digita at 6:25 PM on June 1, 2007
Even in the translation into English...
Well, can we at least give some props to Ralph Mannheim?
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:59 PM on June 1, 2007
Well, can we at least give some props to Ralph Mannheim?
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:59 PM on June 1, 2007
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