Canada's Back!!!
July 3, 2007 11:16 AM Subscribe
PM Stephen Harper’s Canada Day greeting Harper adopts a hawkish, true-blue Tory tone for this year's Canada Day greeting, with an uncharacteristic (for a Canadian) shout-out to God:
From championships in hockey to humanitarian and military leadership roles in Afghanistan and Haiti, we can say again this year, Canada is a citizen of the world and we make our contribution a positive one.
And why shouldn`t we? From the natural wealth of the land that God created, to the talents, energy and imagination of people drawn from all the nations of the earth, we are a country that has been truly blessed.
Hmm, Harper's government is media-savvy, industry-friendly, pays lip service to environmental issues, and now drops divine references. The more they look like the crooks and liars running the USA, the less I like them.
posted by anthill at 11:22 AM on July 3, 2007
posted by anthill at 11:22 AM on July 3, 2007
By the way, Stephen Harper's Conservative Party is sponsoring Pierre Bourque's fucking NASCAR car
posted by Flashman at 11:24 AM on July 3, 2007
posted by Flashman at 11:24 AM on July 3, 2007
A Canadian cartoonist celebrates Canada Day.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:26 AM on July 3, 2007
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:26 AM on July 3, 2007
When I was still living in Michigan a year or so ago, Stephen Harper's nightly dose of stiff, droning vapidity on CBC was a regular TV tune-in experience for me. Nice to see that nothing has changed.
By the way, the dropping of divine references and the accompanying appeal to divine inspiration are nothing new to Monsieur Harper or his political party.
posted by blucevalo at 11:31 AM on July 3, 2007
By the way, the dropping of divine references and the accompanying appeal to divine inspiration are nothing new to Monsieur Harper or his political party.
posted by blucevalo at 11:31 AM on July 3, 2007
All I noticed was that he is looking really, really puffy. Dude needs to get off whatever he's on. He could take a few beauty tips from the G-G.
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on July 3, 2007
posted by GuyZero at 11:36 AM on July 3, 2007
CWAA
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:55 AM on July 3, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:55 AM on July 3, 2007
We're targeting what we have termed the Canadian Tire voter. /throws up in mr.fusion, drives to Ottawa.
posted by acro at 12:17 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by acro at 12:17 PM on July 3, 2007
I love the "Fostering Pets" section on the PM's website. Unfortunately for Stephen Harper, posing with a cute kitten does nothing to draw attention away from his cold, dead eyes. Brrrr.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:23 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:23 PM on July 3, 2007
hurdy gurdy girl-- I'm not opposed to egomaniacs as a rule, but the 6 photos of Harper---above the fold seems kind of excessive. The only good thing is that the video doesn't autoplay.
posted by acro at 12:31 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by acro at 12:31 PM on July 3, 2007
From the PM's greeting:
"I believe that whether our ancestors came from the East, the West, or the South, as Canadians we always look to the North for the true definition of our country."
What if our ancestors came from right here?
posted by salishsea at 12:42 PM on July 3, 2007
"I believe that whether our ancestors came from the East, the West, or the South, as Canadians we always look to the North for the true definition of our country."
What if our ancestors came from right here?
posted by salishsea at 12:42 PM on July 3, 2007
Harper channels Bush. News at 11.
Seriously, now that everyone has had a go at punishing the Liberals for their transgressions, can we please get Harper et al out of power? Do we really want Bush Admin II here?
posted by Zinger at 12:45 PM on July 3, 2007
Seriously, now that everyone has had a go at punishing the Liberals for their transgressions, can we please get Harper et al out of power? Do we really want Bush Admin II here?
posted by Zinger at 12:45 PM on July 3, 2007
No, we don't. We don't even want Mulroney II.
posted by orange swan at 12:51 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by orange swan at 12:51 PM on July 3, 2007
I love the "Fostering Pets" section on the PM's website. Unfortunately for Stephen Harper, posing with a cute kitten does nothing to draw attention away from his cold, dead eyes. Brrrr.
How can you hate a leader that takes time out from running the country to read stories to orphaned illiterate kitties? You people are a tough crowd.
posted by Keith Talent at 1:07 PM on July 3, 2007
We don't even want Mulroney II
Mulroney gave us:
- Free Trade (a good thing)
- More national parks and environmental protection (a good thing)
- Less acid rain from the States (a good thing)
- The GST (a good thing, but only if income taxes are reduced)
- a possible solution to the fact that Quebec did not sign the constitution (a good thing)
- Ben Mulroney (not such a good thing)
- A Peter Newman THAT WILL NOT DIE (generally, a bad thing)
Harper lacks the vision of Mulroney, that's for sure...
posted by KokuRyu at 1:07 PM on July 3, 2007
Mulroney gave us:
- Free Trade (a good thing)
- More national parks and environmental protection (a good thing)
- Less acid rain from the States (a good thing)
- The GST (a good thing, but only if income taxes are reduced)
- a possible solution to the fact that Quebec did not sign the constitution (a good thing)
- Ben Mulroney (not such a good thing)
- A Peter Newman THAT WILL NOT DIE (generally, a bad thing)
Harper lacks the vision of Mulroney, that's for sure...
posted by KokuRyu at 1:07 PM on July 3, 2007
You know, Bush has only got a little bit of time left over here in the USA and when he's gone, you Canadians are still going to be stuck with this retard. Isn't that going to feel silly? Like a victim of some temporary exuberance - maybe like that guy with the "Snakes on a Plane" tattoo?
posted by redteam at 1:15 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by redteam at 1:15 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
And why shouldn't we? From the natural wealth of the land that God created, to the talents, energy and imagination of people drawn from all the nations of the earth, we are a country that has been truly blessed.
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem. Or know anything about Tommy Douglas, or Trudeau for that matter.
posted by loquax at 1:25 PM on July 3, 2007
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem. Or know anything about Tommy Douglas, or Trudeau for that matter.
posted by loquax at 1:25 PM on July 3, 2007
You know, Bush has only got a little bit of time left over here in the USA and when he's gone, you Canadians are still going to be stuck with this retard. Isn't that going to feel silly? Like a victim of some temporary exuberance - maybe like that guy with the "Snakes on a Plane" tattoo?
Harper isn't exactly in a strong position but he is in better shape politically than his rivals - I don't think he can get a majority government even with the Liberals, PQ and the NDP floundering and making bad choices. Harper will probably survive as Conservative leader longer than Jack Layton and Stephane Dion will with their parties, but in five years I suspect he will be an obscure figure who was too disliked and had too divided a parliament to do much.
This minority gov'ts will last a few years, and we will wind up with a longtime Liberal gov't like Trudeau or Chretien had - or the Greens surge and we wind up with euro-style coalition governments and see the virtual two-party system disappear - either way, its a centre right/left Canadian government - in the truest sense George Bush or a real Bush lite is unelectable in Canada.
posted by Deep Dish at 1:48 PM on July 3, 2007
Harper isn't exactly in a strong position but he is in better shape politically than his rivals - I don't think he can get a majority government even with the Liberals, PQ and the NDP floundering and making bad choices. Harper will probably survive as Conservative leader longer than Jack Layton and Stephane Dion will with their parties, but in five years I suspect he will be an obscure figure who was too disliked and had too divided a parliament to do much.
This minority gov'ts will last a few years, and we will wind up with a longtime Liberal gov't like Trudeau or Chretien had - or the Greens surge and we wind up with euro-style coalition governments and see the virtual two-party system disappear - either way, its a centre right/left Canadian government - in the truest sense George Bush or a real Bush lite is unelectable in Canada.
posted by Deep Dish at 1:48 PM on July 3, 2007
Mulroney also gave us a NAFTA that straightjackets Canadian energy policy and provides a leverage bar for unrestricted water mining. His party wasn't quite as corrupt as today's Republicans, but they would give them a run for their money.
posted by anthill at 1:53 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by anthill at 1:53 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Acro: hee hee! I never even noticed the scary number of Harper-pics, I was so tickled by the PR attempt to show Harper as cuddly...
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:55 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:55 PM on July 3, 2007
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem.
Good too see I'm too late to point out the obvious.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:04 PM on July 3, 2007
Good too see I'm too late to point out the obvious.
posted by Krrrlson at 2:04 PM on July 3, 2007
And why shouldn't we? From the natural wealth of the land that God created, to the talents, energy and imagination of people drawn from all the nations of the earth, we are a country that has been truly blessed.
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem. Or know anything about Tommy Douglas, or Trudeau for that matter.
Looks like loquax is trying out that old you-must-not-love-your-country-if-you-don't-love-every-aspect-of-it argument that plays so well to certain folks down in the USofA.
Nope, I sure didn't like the religious elements of the anthem (in French or English) when I learned it as a kid and I still don't. And sure, Tommy Douglas was no atheist, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the good things he did for Canada.
Isn't tolerance supposed to be a defining Canadian characteristic? I'll let the christians do their thing and they'll let me do mine. I'd thank them though, if they could try to keep their religion out of governance.
posted by ssg at 2:11 PM on July 3, 2007
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem. Or know anything about Tommy Douglas, or Trudeau for that matter.
Looks like loquax is trying out that old you-must-not-love-your-country-if-you-don't-love-every-aspect-of-it argument that plays so well to certain folks down in the USofA.
Nope, I sure didn't like the religious elements of the anthem (in French or English) when I learned it as a kid and I still don't. And sure, Tommy Douglas was no atheist, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the good things he did for Canada.
Isn't tolerance supposed to be a defining Canadian characteristic? I'll let the christians do their thing and they'll let me do mine. I'd thank them though, if they could try to keep their religion out of governance.
posted by ssg at 2:11 PM on July 3, 2007
The conservatives are doing very badly in the polls - Lib 32, Con 29, NDP 18, Green 9, Bloc 9. And, that is in the face of Dion's poor numbers. I suspect that is mostly poor name recognition, and that Dion can improve on that in a campaign. Unfortunately, the Liberals don't have any money, so they weren't in a position to exploit their advantage at the end of the session..
I think we need to be rid of Harper with considerable urgency, and the country appears to agree, so this situation is quite frustrating..
posted by Chuckles at 2:30 PM on July 3, 2007
I think we need to be rid of Harper with considerable urgency, and the country appears to agree, so this situation is quite frustrating..
posted by Chuckles at 2:30 PM on July 3, 2007
On the God thing... Lorne Calvert is a by-trade Clergyman - he regularily says things like "God Bless Saskatchewan".
Context: NDP (leftist/socialist) leader and Premier of Saskatchewan. I am not a Christian, but on its own invoking God is not really rightist.
posted by Deep Dish at 2:34 PM on July 3, 2007
Context: NDP (leftist/socialist) leader and Premier of Saskatchewan. I am not a Christian, but on its own invoking God is not really rightist.
posted by Deep Dish at 2:34 PM on July 3, 2007
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem.
Krrrlson and loquax, this is not so obvious. Like many others, I learned the words to O Canada long before there was any reference to a god. I liked it better that way.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:41 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Krrrlson and loquax, this is not so obvious. Like many others, I learned the words to O Canada long before there was any reference to a god. I liked it better that way.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:41 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Everyone knows that while God may have created Canada, it is also the land he gave to Cain.
posted by jb at 2:41 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by jb at 2:41 PM on July 3, 2007
If you seriously have a problem with this, I really hope you never learned the words to the anthem.
The anthem is one thing, but it's jarring to hear the PM make reference to God on a stage during Canada Day. I can't think of a recent PM who has invoked God's name as much as Harper has.
Sure, Tommy Douglas was a preacher. But his God and Harper's God are quite different.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:54 PM on July 3, 2007
The anthem is one thing, but it's jarring to hear the PM make reference to God on a stage during Canada Day. I can't think of a recent PM who has invoked God's name as much as Harper has.
Sure, Tommy Douglas was a preacher. But his God and Harper's God are quite different.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:54 PM on July 3, 2007
Sure, Tommy Douglas was a preacher. But his God and Harper's God are quite different.
Explain please.
posted by Totally Zanzibarin' Ya at 2:57 PM on July 3, 2007
Explain please.
posted by Totally Zanzibarin' Ya at 2:57 PM on July 3, 2007
- a possible solution to the fact that Quebec did not sign the constitution (a good thing)
I will take Harper's God reference over another Meech Lake any day, though both seem equally ineffective.
posted by boubelium at 3:01 PM on July 3, 2007
I will take Harper's God reference over another Meech Lake any day, though both seem equally ineffective.
posted by boubelium at 3:01 PM on July 3, 2007
Tommy Douglas's God was Jesus the Carpenter, the long haired-guy who fed the sick and healed the poor.
Harper's God pays lip-service to all that stuff in the Parables. Harper's God is all about family values: I sit at the head of the table, I tell you what to do, you will sit down and shut up.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:21 PM on July 3, 2007 [2 favorites]
Harper's God pays lip-service to all that stuff in the Parables. Harper's God is all about family values: I sit at the head of the table, I tell you what to do, you will sit down and shut up.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:21 PM on July 3, 2007 [2 favorites]
Bingo, KokuRyu.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:27 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 3:27 PM on July 3, 2007
Fair 'nuff.
posted by Totally Zanzibarin' Ya at 3:27 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by Totally Zanzibarin' Ya at 3:27 PM on July 3, 2007
Tommy Douglas's God was Jesus the Carpenter, the long haired-guy who fed the sick and healed the poor
...and castrated the mentally handicapped and condemned the gays to eternal hellfire...
Whoops! Did I say that out loud?
posted by loquax at 3:43 PM on July 3, 2007
...and castrated the mentally handicapped and condemned the gays to eternal hellfire...
Whoops! Did I say that out loud?
posted by loquax at 3:43 PM on July 3, 2007
Tommy Douglas's God was Jesus the Carpenter, the long haired-guy who fed the sick and healed the poor
...and castrated the mentally handicapped and condemned the gays to eternal hellfire...
I think you're thinking of 'Bible Bill' Aberhart...
posted by KokuRyu at 4:05 PM on July 3, 2007
...and castrated the mentally handicapped and condemned the gays to eternal hellfire...
I think you're thinking of 'Bible Bill' Aberhart...
posted by KokuRyu at 4:05 PM on July 3, 2007
...not to mention moral subnormals, like divorcees, those guilty of abotions and the sexually promiscuous. Don't worry though, Tommy Douglas and his God didn't want to sterilize them, only to "concentrate" them in "camps" where the clergy could remake these deviants into the image of Christ in the Kingdom of God, just like the clergy did with the subhumans in Tiera del Fuego, as described by Darwin. Seriously, check out his master's thesis, it's awesome. Douglas or Menegele, who can tell?
Greatest Canadian? Ewwwwwww........
On preview: No, I'm talking about Douglas. Check it out for yourself.
posted by loquax at 4:08 PM on July 3, 2007
Greatest Canadian? Ewwwwwww........
On preview: No, I'm talking about Douglas. Check it out for yourself.
posted by loquax at 4:08 PM on July 3, 2007
PS: If you're pissed about Harper's god talk, you're in the minority in Canada, BTW. Something for all you jesusland refugees to think about.
The poll suggests Canadians divide in essentially three groups on the issue of creation: 34 per cent of those polled said humans developed over millions of years under a process guided by God; 26 per cent said God created humans alone within the last 10,000 years or so; and 29 per cent said they believe evolution occurred with no help from God.
And there were a few surprises: Conservatives were more likely than Liberals to say that God had no part in the process, and Alberta, regarded as the birthplace of social conservatism, had one of the lowest levels of beliefs for strict creationism at 22 per cent.
...
Liberal respondents were far more likely to be what could be termed “soft evolutionists” or “soft creationists,” with 41 per cent saying God guided the process of human development, as opposed to 34 per cent of Conservatives seeing creation in those terms.
Ohhhh that's sooooooo rich......
posted by loquax at 4:21 PM on July 3, 2007
The poll suggests Canadians divide in essentially three groups on the issue of creation: 34 per cent of those polled said humans developed over millions of years under a process guided by God; 26 per cent said God created humans alone within the last 10,000 years or so; and 29 per cent said they believe evolution occurred with no help from God.
And there were a few surprises: Conservatives were more likely than Liberals to say that God had no part in the process, and Alberta, regarded as the birthplace of social conservatism, had one of the lowest levels of beliefs for strict creationism at 22 per cent.
...
Liberal respondents were far more likely to be what could be termed “soft evolutionists” or “soft creationists,” with 41 per cent saying God guided the process of human development, as opposed to 34 per cent of Conservatives seeing creation in those terms.
Ohhhh that's sooooooo rich......
posted by loquax at 4:21 PM on July 3, 2007
Forget Stephen Harper, Michaëlle Jean's (the governer General) Canada day speech on parliament hill was brilliant.
"I would like to take the opportunity, on this Canada Day, to issue a challenge to all the young people here and everywhere across the country.
You have the ability to look at the world with fresh eyes. Do not set yourselves any limits. Dream big. Be daring. Act.
On this July 1st, let us celebrate all these dreams, all these everyday actions, all these projects and all these achievements. Let us strengthen the bonds of solidarity that make Canada the generous country we love."
all these projects ... This was wonderful to hear
posted by niccolo at 4:33 PM on July 3, 2007
"I would like to take the opportunity, on this Canada Day, to issue a challenge to all the young people here and everywhere across the country.
You have the ability to look at the world with fresh eyes. Do not set yourselves any limits. Dream big. Be daring. Act.
On this July 1st, let us celebrate all these dreams, all these everyday actions, all these projects and all these achievements. Let us strengthen the bonds of solidarity that make Canada the generous country we love."
all these projects ... This was wonderful to hear
posted by niccolo at 4:33 PM on July 3, 2007
Well, the whole "Albertans aren't creationists" is pretty easy to explain. The hard part is trying to explain some of the Royal Tyrrell's neighbours.
posted by djfiander at 4:58 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by djfiander at 4:58 PM on July 3, 2007
Loquax, you've trolled in Canada threads on here before, so I tend not to take what you say too seriously.
But as for:
PS: If you're pissed about Harper's god talk, you're in the minority in Canada, BTW. Something for all you jesusland refugees to think about.
I don't think anyone disputes that many Canadians are religious. What people object to is the blatant mixing of church and state; further, Harper is supposed to be Prime Minister to my Muslim and Hindi neighbours as well as my devout Catholic and Anglican ones.
posted by Zinger at 5:25 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
But as for:
PS: If you're pissed about Harper's god talk, you're in the minority in Canada, BTW. Something for all you jesusland refugees to think about.
I don't think anyone disputes that many Canadians are religious. What people object to is the blatant mixing of church and state; further, Harper is supposed to be Prime Minister to my Muslim and Hindi neighbours as well as my devout Catholic and Anglican ones.
posted by Zinger at 5:25 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Also, people might want to check out the Wikipedia entry on Douglas for a little context on his thesis.
posted by Zinger at 5:31 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by Zinger at 5:31 PM on July 3, 2007
Dasein nails it -- a few pro forma references to God do not an incipient theocracy make.
Besides, we have real problems in this country:
Senate obstructionism. Bureaucratic rebellion. Provincial expansionism. Native lawlessness. Quebec separatism. On this Canada Day, the question is perhaps more pertinent than ever: Is Canada governable?
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:41 PM on July 3, 2007
Besides, we have real problems in this country:
Senate obstructionism. Bureaucratic rebellion. Provincial expansionism. Native lawlessness. Quebec separatism. On this Canada Day, the question is perhaps more pertinent than ever: Is Canada governable?
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:41 PM on July 3, 2007
I just say that you knee-jerk idiots who think that every public figure who mentions God in his speeches wants to impose a theocracy on the country and is a stooge of George Bush can kindly GO FUCK YOURSELVES...If you're too thin-skinned in your atheism to handle a reference to go, that's your problem.
I'm a knee-jerk idiot! And I can go fuck myself! I'm too thin skinned in my atheism to handle a reference to go (sic), and it's my problem!
Thankfully, I neither a troll nor a butthead that must resort to insults, foul language, and the worst sin of all, ALLCAPS, to hammer home an argument that that is based on emotion and irrationality, rather than logic.
You, Dasein, can fuck yourself, too.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:43 PM on July 3, 2007
I'm a knee-jerk idiot! And I can go fuck myself! I'm too thin skinned in my atheism to handle a reference to go (sic), and it's my problem!
Thankfully, I neither a troll nor a butthead that must resort to insults, foul language, and the worst sin of all, ALLCAPS, to hammer home an argument that that is based on emotion and irrationality, rather than logic.
You, Dasein, can fuck yourself, too.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:43 PM on July 3, 2007
Hey Zinger. Sorry your idol had to have his pet theories on subhumanism disproven by the Nazis, but rationalize your support of a bible thumpin' cripple castrizer however you like. He was an ordained reverend of 30 when he wrote his thesis, not a teenager. What's the context? He realized his views were abhorrent and hid them from the public eye in order to win election via the votes of those he wished to put in camps? What a humanitarian! Nothing like that Harper, mixing Church and state with his "God bless Canada's!"
But yes, call me a troll and eeeevvvverrryyything will be OK.
posted by loquax at 5:45 PM on July 3, 2007
But yes, call me a troll and eeeevvvverrryyything will be OK.
posted by loquax at 5:45 PM on July 3, 2007
This is a thread about Canada, people. A little civility, please?
btw, I was concurring in Dasein's general sentiment, not the 'fuck yourselves' tone that undermines the actual point...
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:49 PM on July 3, 2007
btw, I was concurring in Dasein's general sentiment, not the 'fuck yourselves' tone that undermines the actual point...
posted by Urban Hermit at 5:49 PM on July 3, 2007
Speaking as a committed "knee-jerk idiot," if pro forma references to God were all Harper and his ilk were doing, I wouldn't worry so much.
posted by Zinger at 5:51 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by Zinger at 5:51 PM on July 3, 2007
I'll say it again: I guess a BCer like me who wears klunky Gordon Campbell glasses was surprised to see a reference to God in a speech by a contemporary Prime Minister. It's kind of the the antithesis of the "Cool Canada" image we cultivated during the first half of the decade. Anglicans (despite the recent gay marriage blessing setback) are cool, as are RCs (Paul Martin, *ugh* Chretien). Evangelicals, not so cool.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:53 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by KokuRyu at 5:53 PM on July 3, 2007
Never said he was my idol, Loquax. Indeed, I didn't say anything providing an opinion on Douglas one way or the other. Simply provided a link so people who didn't care to try and decipher a badly scanned copy of thesis on a random website knew what the heck was being discussed.
posted by Zinger at 5:54 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by Zinger at 5:54 PM on July 3, 2007
Provincial expansionism
What are you talking about here? Are we trying to annex the Soviet Union for living space?
posted by Deep Dish at 5:57 PM on July 3, 2007
What are you talking about here? Are we trying to annex the Soviet Union for living space?
posted by Deep Dish at 5:57 PM on July 3, 2007
I'm not a Christian Canadian. However, I am a member of the Conservative Party of Canada. I noted he made this statement and knew people would start murmuring...and that part is much more stupid than his statement.
Most especially important here is that he has the right to his beliefs and the right to share them. *Even in the context of his job*. It's not like he's telling us we need to believe that God shaped the earth; he's telling us pretty clearly that he beliefs God did.
So, FFS, as long as you demand that you are allowed to believe and say what you wish, allow the guy the possibility of doing the same.
posted by Kickstart70 at 5:59 PM on July 3, 2007
Most especially important here is that he has the right to his beliefs and the right to share them. *Even in the context of his job*. It's not like he's telling us we need to believe that God shaped the earth; he's telling us pretty clearly that he beliefs God did.
So, FFS, as long as you demand that you are allowed to believe and say what you wish, allow the guy the possibility of doing the same.
posted by Kickstart70 at 5:59 PM on July 3, 2007
I noted he made this statement and knew people would start murmuring...and that part is much more stupid than his statement.
Hey, man, Harper is a politician and a leader. If people (members of the electorate) "murmur" about something he's said, it's not stupid, it's a political reality.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:07 PM on July 3, 2007
Hey, man, Harper is a politician and a leader. If people (members of the electorate) "murmur" about something he's said, it's not stupid, it's a political reality.
posted by KokuRyu at 6:07 PM on July 3, 2007
Interesting that he mentioned Haiti. That used to get no attention at all.
I guess they figure people really aren't paying attention if Harp can just casually drop a reference to that aggressive coup they helped orchestrate within the first few paragraphs.
posted by poweredbybeard at 6:11 PM on July 3, 2007
I guess they figure people really aren't paying attention if Harp can just casually drop a reference to that aggressive coup they helped orchestrate within the first few paragraphs.
posted by poweredbybeard at 6:11 PM on July 3, 2007
It wasn't a casual reference. Our Governor General was born in Haiti.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 6:39 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 6:39 PM on July 3, 2007
Does Harper get along with anyone? He doesn't even let McKay stick his tongue up his ass anymore.
Harper has the team skills of Richard Nixon and the personal appeal of bloated tootless rattle snake. He just kind of splurts venom around aimlessly, hurting no one as much as himself.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:18 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Harper has the team skills of Richard Nixon and the personal appeal of bloated tootless rattle snake. He just kind of splurts venom around aimlessly, hurting no one as much as himself.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:18 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
P.S. redteam-- we're not exactly stuck with Harper. He doesn't have a term to serve out.
He's the motherfucking snake on this motherfucking plane. But we can and will throw him out soon.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:24 PM on July 3, 2007
He's the motherfucking snake on this motherfucking plane. But we can and will throw him out soon.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:24 PM on July 3, 2007
Kickstart: When the prime minister of Canada makes a widely disseminated speech, on Canada Day, I'd thank him to keep his personal religious beliefs out of it. To suggest that my expectation somehow impinges on his right to free speech is ridiculous. He was making a speech as the representative of the Canadian people, not as Stephen Harper.
posted by ssg at 7:25 PM on July 3, 2007
posted by ssg at 7:25 PM on July 3, 2007
Like a victim of some temporary exuberance
Please, the dude's managed to sustain the longest-serving minority government by lying low for the first year - shit, they still refer to themselves as being "Canada's New Government."
Come back and crow after he gets a second term.
Also, I don't find Harper and the Conservatives quite so disgusting as the citizens of my country who almost seem to want a puffed-up CultureWar like they have in the States. Don't buy into it, don't propagate it, TIA.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:33 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Please, the dude's managed to sustain the longest-serving minority government by lying low for the first year - shit, they still refer to themselves as being "Canada's New Government."
Come back and crow after he gets a second term.
Also, I don't find Harper and the Conservatives quite so disgusting as the citizens of my country who almost seem to want a puffed-up CultureWar like they have in the States. Don't buy into it, don't propagate it, TIA.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:33 PM on July 3, 2007 [1 favorite]
Is there a scientific name for this desire-of-persecution complex that so many Americans and Canadians have these days? Of course Canadians are having a harder time, since, in the absence of anything even closely resembling the American situation (which itself pales next to the conditions experienced in true totalitarian and theocratic nations), they are forced to grasp at pathetic little straws like the "shout-out to God" discussed here.
posted by Krrrlson at 12:45 AM on July 4, 2007
posted by Krrrlson at 12:45 AM on July 4, 2007
Stephen Harper is a libertarian atheist nerd. He just uses the same advisors as Bush does.
Fuck him.
posted by Pseudonumb at 3:43 AM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fuck him.
posted by Pseudonumb at 3:43 AM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
They are not little straws, Krrlson. Harper wants a theocratic nation. But don't take my word for it - read him yourself. And for an explanation of Burkean conservatism, see this entry. I'm particularly fond of Burke's views on women.
As for your so-called desire-of-persecution complex... so when exactly is it okay to worry about creeping theocracy? Are Canadians supposed to wait until it gets as bad as it has in the US before we're allowed to worry? Are Americans supposed to wait until they have a Handmaid's Tale type nation before speaking up? No, neither country has a truly totalitarian or theocratic regime and yes the conditions pale in comparison. But exactly when is it okay in your books to try and prevent it?
posted by Zinger at 5:39 AM on July 4, 2007
As for your so-called desire-of-persecution complex... so when exactly is it okay to worry about creeping theocracy? Are Canadians supposed to wait until it gets as bad as it has in the US before we're allowed to worry? Are Americans supposed to wait until they have a Handmaid's Tale type nation before speaking up? No, neither country has a truly totalitarian or theocratic regime and yes the conditions pale in comparison. But exactly when is it okay in your books to try and prevent it?
posted by Zinger at 5:39 AM on July 4, 2007
so when exactly is it okay to worry about creeping theocracy... exactly when is it okay in your books to try and prevent it?
Maybe after we get Health Care, child poverty, environmental protections, women's rights, agriculture, and Native land claims sorted out. Y'know, real problems. Granted, this government's antipathy to many of those issues is a hurdle, and requires vigilance on the part of the media and the citizenry, but again, Harper's government is a minority which has repeatedly alienated its support base. They're fucking anemic.
Look at the recent budget brouhaha. It passed the House thanks solely to the Bloc, a party whose leader doesn't even want to be there and who hardly have the best interests of Canada in mind. The day the Conservatives try to introduce legislation that restricts or repeals social freedoms is the day an election will be announced. If Harper gives lip service to the people who've been listening to Focus on the Family for 15+ years in Shitfuck, MB, fine. He gave lip service when he said he wouldn't touch income trusts, and he gave lip service before he dismantled the wheat board.
The American problem of self-styled neo-cons pandering to a vast base of Protestants doesn't work here; it can't, the majority faith is Catholic. Catholic, and the Civil Marriage Act still passed (Funny aside: Harper, who opposed Bill C-38, claimed that "the law lacks legitimacy because it passed [only] with the support of the separatist Bloc party.)"
The whole "OMG! Creeping theocracy!" stinks of good ol' Canuck Me-Tooism, of Blue State wannabes looking South and trying to define themselves by conjuring up an enemy that, if is not completely chimerical, is certainly not our most pressing concern, of taking arms against a puddle of troubles and by pulling a Chicken Little act on the Internet, vanquishing them.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:43 AM on July 4, 2007
Maybe after we get Health Care, child poverty, environmental protections, women's rights, agriculture, and Native land claims sorted out. Y'know, real problems. Granted, this government's antipathy to many of those issues is a hurdle, and requires vigilance on the part of the media and the citizenry, but again, Harper's government is a minority which has repeatedly alienated its support base. They're fucking anemic.
Look at the recent budget brouhaha. It passed the House thanks solely to the Bloc, a party whose leader doesn't even want to be there and who hardly have the best interests of Canada in mind. The day the Conservatives try to introduce legislation that restricts or repeals social freedoms is the day an election will be announced. If Harper gives lip service to the people who've been listening to Focus on the Family for 15+ years in Shitfuck, MB, fine. He gave lip service when he said he wouldn't touch income trusts, and he gave lip service before he dismantled the wheat board.
The American problem of self-styled neo-cons pandering to a vast base of Protestants doesn't work here; it can't, the majority faith is Catholic. Catholic, and the Civil Marriage Act still passed (Funny aside: Harper, who opposed Bill C-38, claimed that "the law lacks legitimacy because it passed [only] with the support of the separatist Bloc party.)"
The whole "OMG! Creeping theocracy!" stinks of good ol' Canuck Me-Tooism, of Blue State wannabes looking South and trying to define themselves by conjuring up an enemy that, if is not completely chimerical, is certainly not our most pressing concern, of taking arms against a puddle of troubles and by pulling a Chicken Little act on the Internet, vanquishing them.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:43 AM on July 4, 2007
Oh, and hi to everyone in Shitfuck, MB. Go Celtics!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:48 AM on July 4, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:48 AM on July 4, 2007
After all this debate, I read the actual line:
From the natural wealth of the land that God created
and I have to ask...as opposed to what?
the natural poverty of those satanically constructed third world nations?
the unnatural wealth of those scummy southerners who have to invade innocent dictatorships to ensure their VP's associates are kept in clover?
the natural wealth of the local bears and plants that God created?
or the natural wealth that those who find the evidence of god insufficient, or have a different description of divinity, are wrong and ungrateful about?
Ultimately, the language is exclusionist. If he was saying "the wealth earned by the men of this country" he would be being sexist - whether intentionally or not - and creating a detrimental image of women in the mind of the listener. Additionally he is a representative of the country and not in this instance a private individual, so his pronouncements carry greater weight in the minds of the listener. Language usage such as this has effects - and has been demonstrated to do so time and again.
posted by Sparx at 8:30 AM on July 4, 2007
From the natural wealth of the land that God created
and I have to ask...as opposed to what?
the natural poverty of those satanically constructed third world nations?
the unnatural wealth of those scummy southerners who have to invade innocent dictatorships to ensure their VP's associates are kept in clover?
the natural wealth of the local bears and plants that God created?
or the natural wealth that those who find the evidence of god insufficient, or have a different description of divinity, are wrong and ungrateful about?
Ultimately, the language is exclusionist. If he was saying "the wealth earned by the men of this country" he would be being sexist - whether intentionally or not - and creating a detrimental image of women in the mind of the listener. Additionally he is a representative of the country and not in this instance a private individual, so his pronouncements carry greater weight in the minds of the listener. Language usage such as this has effects - and has been demonstrated to do so time and again.
posted by Sparx at 8:30 AM on July 4, 2007
There's lots and lots of reasons why Harper sucks and mentioning God in his speeches is way down on the list. He's embarrassing and wrong and so on, but you have to think of his time in office as the bitter pill that will (hopefully) cure the disease of federal Liberal caretaker governments that gradually make everything worse.
Plain and simple, it was him or Paul Martin, and I'd rather have the straight-up obvious idiot in power for awhile than the crumbling status quo that falsely presents itself as being progressive and 'on your side'.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:29 AM on July 4, 2007
Plain and simple, it was him or Paul Martin, and I'd rather have the straight-up obvious idiot in power for awhile than the crumbling status quo that falsely presents itself as being progressive and 'on your side'.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:29 AM on July 4, 2007
Maybe after we get Health Care, child poverty, environmental protections, women's rights, agriculture, and Native land claims sorted out. Y'know, real problems. Granted, this government's antipathy to many of those issues is a hurdle,
Precisely. And the reason why it's a real hurdle is because this government is too busy worrying about God blessin' Canada, and how to legislate Burkean conservative values into place. Did you read the link about that philosophy? It focuses on morals and manners - Burke even says that manners are more important than laws.
Take child care as one issue. I would be very surprised to ever see a genuine national day care strategy come from the [current incarnation of the] Conservatives. Why? Because at the core of their beliefs is the thought that Mommy should not be out working; she should be at home with the kids. And while they may point to studies that support that idea, the reason for their belief seems to be because The Bible Said So.
So this has nothing to do with Me-Tooism, chimeras, identity formation and whatever other name you'd like to throw at it.
The Conservatives have said quite plainly how they would like to change the country, and it is in the direction of moral and social conservatism, not fiscal conservatism. The "God Bless" is but one manifestation of that.
In other words what they say is a clear indicator of what they plan to do. I would love for us to get on with the other issues you've mentioned. But we ain't gonna, given this government's focus.
posted by Zinger at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2007
Precisely. And the reason why it's a real hurdle is because this government is too busy worrying about God blessin' Canada, and how to legislate Burkean conservative values into place. Did you read the link about that philosophy? It focuses on morals and manners - Burke even says that manners are more important than laws.
Take child care as one issue. I would be very surprised to ever see a genuine national day care strategy come from the [current incarnation of the] Conservatives. Why? Because at the core of their beliefs is the thought that Mommy should not be out working; she should be at home with the kids. And while they may point to studies that support that idea, the reason for their belief seems to be because The Bible Said So.
So this has nothing to do with Me-Tooism, chimeras, identity formation and whatever other name you'd like to throw at it.
The Conservatives have said quite plainly how they would like to change the country, and it is in the direction of moral and social conservatism, not fiscal conservatism. The "God Bless" is but one manifestation of that.
In other words what they say is a clear indicator of what they plan to do. I would love for us to get on with the other issues you've mentioned. But we ain't gonna, given this government's focus.
posted by Zinger at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2007
People say that finally, Canada has regained credibility with the Americans and on the world stage. But that credibility has been paid for in blood.
posted by KokuRyu at 3:39 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by KokuRyu at 3:39 PM on July 4, 2007
They definitely don't adhere to the Chicago Manual of Style:
Happy Women's Day
Fatima appears as a halo in the visages of all of the oppressed who later become the multitudes of Islam.
You can have the slickest web interface you want, but, in the end, it's the quality of the content that counts.
GONG!
posted by KokuRyu at 4:57 PM on July 4, 2007
Happy Women's Day
Fatima appears as a halo in the visages of all of the oppressed who later become the multitudes of Islam.
You can have the slickest web interface you want, but, in the end, it's the quality of the content that counts.
GONG!
posted by KokuRyu at 4:57 PM on July 4, 2007
Kinda wish you had quoted that entire paragraph, Zinger. For the nth time, this government is weak. The only reason they're still in power is because the Liberals still haven't found a leader and the NDP are the NDP. Harper is as much a fundy as my grandma is a Buddhist, and his sucking up to the Swift Current vote isn't worth losing any sleep over. To quote Lisa Simpson, prayer is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and in more than one way.
You are totally entitled to your opinion and I can see why you're concerned, but your Big Bad TexanTM-inflected "God blessin' Canada" makes me cringe, and not out of fear of the Conservatives.
Unless that was supposed to be a Newfoundland accent.
And manners are more important than law. Though you wouldn't know it to read my MeTa comments.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:27 PM on July 4, 2007
You are totally entitled to your opinion and I can see why you're concerned, but your Big Bad TexanTM-inflected "God blessin' Canada" makes me cringe, and not out of fear of the Conservatives.
Unless that was supposed to be a Newfoundland accent.
And manners are more important than law. Though you wouldn't know it to read my MeTa comments.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:27 PM on July 4, 2007
For the nth time, this government is weak.
It's a minority, I grant you. What worries me though is that people aren't concerned enough about it, and they'll be willing to give it a majority. Then we will be in trouble.
Remember how in Bush vs Gore everyone figured there wasn't much to decide between them? That it wouldn't matter which was put in as their policies would pretty much be the same? Bad call.
posted by Zinger at 8:05 AM on July 5, 2007
It's a minority, I grant you. What worries me though is that people aren't concerned enough about it, and they'll be willing to give it a majority. Then we will be in trouble.
Remember how in Bush vs Gore everyone figured there wasn't much to decide between them? That it wouldn't matter which was put in as their policies would pretty much be the same? Bad call.
posted by Zinger at 8:05 AM on July 5, 2007
I posted what I did originally more out of irritation than genuine "fear" of Harper (although the influence of Tom O'Flanagan and the 'Calgary School' on this government is pretty fearsome).
So, I'm going to troll my own thread:
How is this current 'New Government' any worse than the Liberals? Granted, Chretien and Martin got the fiscal house in order, but most of the country's current economic strength is based on Free Trade, oil, and a construction boom fueled on low interest rates.
While Chretien kept Canada out of Iraq, the Liberals committed us to Afghanistan, and supported the coup in Haiti.
Chretien, Martin, and Manley are all responsible for an erosion of human rights in Canada since 2001 (security certificates, covert surveillance, no-fly lists, de facto cooperation with extraordinary renditions). Even Bob Rae is a hawk.
While the Conservatives were slow to pick up the ball on the environment, it's not like they are responsible for Canada's failure to meet Kyoto goals. It is the Liberals.
The Conservatives are more irksome than anything else. Like the entire "Quebec nation" thing.
If they do get a majority, and that's a big if, the Tories will still have to deal with the provinces, an unruly bunch of folks.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:05 AM on July 5, 2007
So, I'm going to troll my own thread:
How is this current 'New Government' any worse than the Liberals? Granted, Chretien and Martin got the fiscal house in order, but most of the country's current economic strength is based on Free Trade, oil, and a construction boom fueled on low interest rates.
While Chretien kept Canada out of Iraq, the Liberals committed us to Afghanistan, and supported the coup in Haiti.
Chretien, Martin, and Manley are all responsible for an erosion of human rights in Canada since 2001 (security certificates, covert surveillance, no-fly lists, de facto cooperation with extraordinary renditions). Even Bob Rae is a hawk.
While the Conservatives were slow to pick up the ball on the environment, it's not like they are responsible for Canada's failure to meet Kyoto goals. It is the Liberals.
The Conservatives are more irksome than anything else. Like the entire "Quebec nation" thing.
If they do get a majority, and that's a big if, the Tories will still have to deal with the provinces, an unruly bunch of folks.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:05 AM on July 5, 2007
« Older Learning Curves | Stephen Dunne v. The Massachusetts Board of Bar... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
As I looked at the vast gleaming expanse of the Arctic I could not help but think it is as limitless as the potential of Canada itself.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:21 AM on July 3, 2007