School House Rock
July 4, 2007 12:49 PM Subscribe
Hey, do you know about the USA? Do you know about the government? Can you tell me about the constitution? Great! Now you're ready to celebrate The Shot Heard 'Round The World. Tonight, find yourself a little elbow room, enjoy Lady Liberty's greatest recipe, and watch the fireworks!
"Hey, do you know about the USA? Do you know about the government? Can you tell me about the constitution? "
From this post, what I know about the USA is that, apparently, adult Americans get their information about their polity by passively viewing animated cartoons, not by reading books or primary source documents, or participating in their democracy. Where can I get some bread to enjoy with these animated circuses?
posted by orthogonality at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2007
From this post, what I know about the USA is that, apparently, adult Americans get their information about their polity by passively viewing animated cartoons, not by reading books or primary source documents, or participating in their democracy. Where can I get some bread to enjoy with these animated circuses?
posted by orthogonality at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2007
SHR got me interested in these topics when I was a kid, and that interest has never left. An exemplary primer and interest-sparker for the young on subjects that too many are wholly ignorant of, regardless of age.
posted by SaintCynr at 1:01 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by SaintCynr at 1:01 PM on July 4, 2007
Aw this brings back memories.
Ortho: Er, no more like American children, and often times in addition to reading books and primary source documents. The videos and songs act as terrific mnemonic devices. I saw the one about the constitution a bunch of times in 4th grade and I can still recall the preamble perfectly.
Sorry to burst your snark-bubble...
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2007
Ortho: Er, no more like American children, and often times in addition to reading books and primary source documents. The videos and songs act as terrific mnemonic devices. I saw the one about the constitution a bunch of times in 4th grade and I can still recall the preamble perfectly.
Sorry to burst your snark-bubble...
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2007
Personally, I'm a big fan of Ween's version of "The Shot Heard 'Round the World" from Schoolhouse Rock! Rocks .
Anyways, thanks for the post. History Rock was my favorite of all the rocks and it's odd you post this since I felt like watching "No More Kings" and "The Shot Heard 'Round the World" in honor of today.
posted by champthom at 1:14 PM on July 4, 2007
Anyways, thanks for the post. History Rock was my favorite of all the rocks and it's odd you post this since I felt like watching "No More Kings" and "The Shot Heard 'Round the World" in honor of today.
posted by champthom at 1:14 PM on July 4, 2007
I bought the collection a year or so ago, and crack it out every few weeks just for the good times.
posted by pupdog at 1:22 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by pupdog at 1:22 PM on July 4, 2007
I can still recall the preamble perfectly.
Same here. When I was in high school, it was an extra credit question on a history final. All around the classroom, my fellow students were bopping their heads to the rhythm of the SHR song that had been stuck in our brains since childhood...
Ahh, the good old days, when mainstream network programmers actually cared about making educational and entertaining programming available to kids...
I love, love, love SHR!
posted by amyms at 1:44 PM on July 4, 2007
Same here. When I was in high school, it was an extra credit question on a history final. All around the classroom, my fellow students were bopping their heads to the rhythm of the SHR song that had been stuck in our brains since childhood...
Ahh, the good old days, when mainstream network programmers actually cared about making educational and entertaining programming available to kids...
I love, love, love SHR!
posted by amyms at 1:44 PM on July 4, 2007
The more that I think about it, between SHR and This Guy I learned a lot from TV...
posted by pupdog at 1:49 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by pupdog at 1:49 PM on July 4, 2007
I wanted to post the suffrage one just for the hot chick, but youtube doesn't seem to have it.
For the record, all the best songs were in "Grammer Rock."
posted by sourwookie at 1:50 PM on July 4, 2007
For the record, all the best songs were in "Grammer Rock."
posted by sourwookie at 1:50 PM on July 4, 2007
Schoolhouse rock really messed me up as a kid. I had no concept that things work differently in Canada versus the US, and I didn't understand that the history and politics sections weren't about my history and politics.
Loved the grammar stuff though.
posted by arcticwoman at 1:56 PM on July 4, 2007
Loved the grammar stuff though.
posted by arcticwoman at 1:56 PM on July 4, 2007
CitrusFreak12 writes "Sorry to burst your snark-bubble..."
Sorry, I figured most kids read the Declaration and Constitution (or at least the Preamble) and learned the basics of separation of powers and legislative process, without resort to, and in greater depth than provided by, these cartoons.
At least that's what I did; much of my (recreational) reading as a young kid centered on the American Revolution and the Founding (albeit with a rosy and pro-American bias). Certainly, anyone who learned this as a kid prior to the production of these cartoons (in the 1970s?) did it that way. (I'll admit I loved listening to the cast recording of 1776, all the more so as it's generally historically accurate.)
In general, I dislike mnemonic devices (especially jingles) because, for me anyway, they displace actually learning something with rote recitation.
It amazed me, for instance, when I learned that some people only knew the planets of the Solar System because of a mnemonic device (something about "My Very Egregious Mother' or whatever; I resolved then and there not to memorize the jingle). I'd learned the planet names and some idea of their relative sizes and distances just because it was worth knowing. Once I'd accidentally learned "right tighty, lefty-loosey" I could never remember thereafter which way to turn a screw, because the mnemonic would pop into my head and confuse the issue.
Oh, and I live in my snark-bubble, thanks. ;)
posted by orthogonality at 1:59 PM on July 4, 2007
Sorry, I figured most kids read the Declaration and Constitution (or at least the Preamble) and learned the basics of separation of powers and legislative process, without resort to, and in greater depth than provided by, these cartoons.
At least that's what I did; much of my (recreational) reading as a young kid centered on the American Revolution and the Founding (albeit with a rosy and pro-American bias). Certainly, anyone who learned this as a kid prior to the production of these cartoons (in the 1970s?) did it that way. (I'll admit I loved listening to the cast recording of 1776, all the more so as it's generally historically accurate.)
In general, I dislike mnemonic devices (especially jingles) because, for me anyway, they displace actually learning something with rote recitation.
It amazed me, for instance, when I learned that some people only knew the planets of the Solar System because of a mnemonic device (something about "My Very Egregious Mother' or whatever; I resolved then and there not to memorize the jingle). I'd learned the planet names and some idea of their relative sizes and distances just because it was worth knowing. Once I'd accidentally learned "right tighty, lefty-loosey" I could never remember thereafter which way to turn a screw, because the mnemonic would pop into my head and confuse the issue.
Oh, and I live in my snark-bubble, thanks. ;)
posted by orthogonality at 1:59 PM on July 4, 2007
You can download Jonathan Coulton's excellent song "The Presidents" for free!
Truman dropped the bomb on Hiroshima
Eisenhower kept the commies well in hand
Kennedy was killed by a magic bullet
Johnson murdered kids in Vietnam
Nixon was a sweating filthy liar
Ford gave Nixon pardon for his crimes
Carter lusted in his heart for peanuts
Reagan won the Cold War and lost his mind
posted by EarBucket at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2007
Truman dropped the bomb on Hiroshima
Eisenhower kept the commies well in hand
Kennedy was killed by a magic bullet
Johnson murdered kids in Vietnam
Nixon was a sweating filthy liar
Ford gave Nixon pardon for his crimes
Carter lusted in his heart for peanuts
Reagan won the Cold War and lost his mind
posted by EarBucket at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2007
I had completely forgotten about these, thanks for posting it.
posted by frobozz at 2:11 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by frobozz at 2:11 PM on July 4, 2007
In general, I dislike mnemonic devices (especially jingles) because, for me anyway, they displace actually learning something with rote recitation.
I'm sorry, Most Perfect Being, that the other 6.5 billion of us have to resort to simple mindhacks to do things like turn a screw because we are too lazy to review the hundreds of years of screw history and the various rounds of standardization that follows. I'm sorry that instead of being able to individually itemize the amplitude of visible wavelengths we have to resort to Roy G. Biv. I'm sorry that instead of having the spellings of every single word in the English language burned into the synapses in our minds we have to settle for I before E except after C and except as in "neigh" like "neighbor" or sleigh.
Oh, Most Perfect Being, how can we ever be as perfect and wonderful as you, not needing to know that Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge? You who live without songs or phrases or other mind tricks, please tell me this one thing, Most Perfect Being:
How can I remember the order of pseudoelements related to the anchor (a) tag in XHTML without using rote memorization or silly mnemonic. You are wise, and you know the five I am referring to. Please tell me how to easily remember them without resorting to such low things as a jingle or an acronym.
posted by dw at 2:13 PM on July 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
I'm sorry, Most Perfect Being, that the other 6.5 billion of us have to resort to simple mindhacks to do things like turn a screw because we are too lazy to review the hundreds of years of screw history and the various rounds of standardization that follows. I'm sorry that instead of being able to individually itemize the amplitude of visible wavelengths we have to resort to Roy G. Biv. I'm sorry that instead of having the spellings of every single word in the English language burned into the synapses in our minds we have to settle for I before E except after C and except as in "neigh" like "neighbor" or sleigh.
Oh, Most Perfect Being, how can we ever be as perfect and wonderful as you, not needing to know that Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge? You who live without songs or phrases or other mind tricks, please tell me this one thing, Most Perfect Being:
How can I remember the order of pseudoelements related to the anchor (a) tag in XHTML without using rote memorization or silly mnemonic. You are wise, and you know the five I am referring to. Please tell me how to easily remember them without resorting to such low things as a jingle or an acronym.
posted by dw at 2:13 PM on July 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
orthogonality,
I've gotta say, that's a pretty bizarre anti-mnemonic device rant. You seriously just can't see any value in a song or a saying that makes some information easier to remember? I think you're saying that it can be a crutch, but I'm just blown away that you can't even accept that it might be helpful to some people. Perhaps you are very good at remembering facts like the sizes and distances of the planets "cold", but it is difficult for other people. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with using a song or a rhyme if it helps you remember. No one is saying that cartoons like this should replace reading, just that they can be a useful supplement for children.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:13 PM on July 4, 2007
I've gotta say, that's a pretty bizarre anti-mnemonic device rant. You seriously just can't see any value in a song or a saying that makes some information easier to remember? I think you're saying that it can be a crutch, but I'm just blown away that you can't even accept that it might be helpful to some people. Perhaps you are very good at remembering facts like the sizes and distances of the planets "cold", but it is difficult for other people. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with using a song or a rhyme if it helps you remember. No one is saying that cartoons like this should replace reading, just that they can be a useful supplement for children.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:13 PM on July 4, 2007
Only on Metafilter could you see a bitter rant about the concept of mnemonic devices.
posted by dirigibleman at 2:21 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by dirigibleman at 2:21 PM on July 4, 2007
orthogonality
I know you don't like mnemonics but hope that you will please excuse my Dear Aunt Sally from your criticism.
posted by champthom at 2:23 PM on July 4, 2007
I know you don't like mnemonics but hope that you will please excuse my Dear Aunt Sally from your criticism.
posted by champthom at 2:23 PM on July 4, 2007
A while back I got interested and did some cursory research on various memorization techniques, which have an extremely long and rich history. I was particularly impressed by medieval monks who would memorize the entire bible (including chapter and verse divisions) by using devices such as assigning each book to a body part, then each chapter to a body part, each line to a finger, etc. I can't remember all the others ones now, but they all struck me as ingenious. (They worked, too - I tried it out on some Shakespeare.) (And, as a child, a lot of learning is rote memorization until you've amassed enough facts to start putting together in depth ideas.) orthogonality, I would be interested to know what history books you read as a five or six year old (that's about the age these videos are geared to) - were they children's books, or adult books?
posted by frobozz at 2:25 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by frobozz at 2:25 PM on July 4, 2007
um, i PROUDLY sport my SHR shirt all the time, listen to it even when the kids arent around and very much believe that SHR is both entertaining AND educational. (that and of course old school blues clues when steve was still on and not that prat joe... ugh.)
posted by stackmonster at 2:27 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by stackmonster at 2:27 PM on July 4, 2007
Schoolhouse Rock helped a lot of people when it was on, certainly more than most children's programming of today. We learned about government and grammar and all sorts of things, in catchy tunes sung by entertaining singers like Bob Dorough. I see nothing worthy taking its place in modern television for young people these days.
Very disappointing to see negativity about SHR, even here. Come on now, you're having a laugh.
posted by First Post at 2:41 PM on July 4, 2007
Very disappointing to see negativity about SHR, even here. Come on now, you're having a laugh.
posted by First Post at 2:41 PM on July 4, 2007
Sorry, I figured most kids read the Declaration and Constitution (or at least the Preamble) and learned the basics of separation of powers and legislative process, without resort to, and in greater depth than provided by, these cartoons.
context is everything.
If Schoolhouse Rock was presented as basic classroom cirriculum, you would have a valid point. Schoolhouse Rock was broadcast mainly during saturday morning cartoons as brief educational interludes amongst the standard fare of crime solving dogs, and wisecracking anthropomorphic rabbits.
It was never intended to replace books, it was intended to replace commercials. In that light, i find it hard to criticize their animated presentation, use of jingles, or lack of depth.
Schoolhouse Rock is a great example of the idea that there are many different ways to spark a childs interest in learning.In this day and age where actual learning is being replaced with rote proficiency exam preparation, we need Schoolhouse Rock more than ever.
posted by billyfleetwood at 2:58 PM on July 4, 2007
context is everything.
If Schoolhouse Rock was presented as basic classroom cirriculum, you would have a valid point. Schoolhouse Rock was broadcast mainly during saturday morning cartoons as brief educational interludes amongst the standard fare of crime solving dogs, and wisecracking anthropomorphic rabbits.
It was never intended to replace books, it was intended to replace commercials. In that light, i find it hard to criticize their animated presentation, use of jingles, or lack of depth.
Schoolhouse Rock is a great example of the idea that there are many different ways to spark a childs interest in learning.In this day and age where actual learning is being replaced with rote proficiency exam preparation, we need Schoolhouse Rock more than ever.
posted by billyfleetwood at 2:58 PM on July 4, 2007
School House Rocks is great but that first link is pretty much a joke historically.
The most interesting TV I ever saw about the Revolutionary War was this PBS show, Rebels and Redcoats: How Britain Lost America which tells the story from a British perspective. Freed from the need to be patriotic about the founders of the US (or, conversely, driven by a desire to belittle the liberation aspect of the conflict), it is remarkably free from a perspective of "this was a war fought by the little, oppressed guy for freedom". A big part of the argument, if I remember correctly, is that much of the revolutionary drive came from northern merchants who were being hurt monetarily by the King's taxes, and that it was this, rather than a more popular movement, that led to the war.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:04 PM on July 4, 2007
The most interesting TV I ever saw about the Revolutionary War was this PBS show, Rebels and Redcoats: How Britain Lost America which tells the story from a British perspective. Freed from the need to be patriotic about the founders of the US (or, conversely, driven by a desire to belittle the liberation aspect of the conflict), it is remarkably free from a perspective of "this was a war fought by the little, oppressed guy for freedom". A big part of the argument, if I remember correctly, is that much of the revolutionary drive came from northern merchants who were being hurt monetarily by the King's taxes, and that it was this, rather than a more popular movement, that led to the war.
posted by Deathalicious at 3:04 PM on July 4, 2007
Too bad Schoolhouse Rock's not immune to becoming snarkbait here in the blue. Surprises me very little, though.
The "I'm Just a Bill" one was a pretty good introduction to how Congress does its thing and a lot more accessible to school kids than the source document(s) would be -- in fact, it helped in HS civics class that we got an overview to Article I of the Constitution by watching the now-familiar cartoon on VCR while our teacher told us, "take notes! You'll be seeing this material shortly in a less friendly format." I know somebody else whose Civics teacher gave an extra-credit question: "Write down the Preamble to the Constitution" -- and a roomful of teenagers were happily humming as they remembered and wrote.
posted by pax digita at 3:29 PM on July 4, 2007
The "I'm Just a Bill" one was a pretty good introduction to how Congress does its thing and a lot more accessible to school kids than the source document(s) would be -- in fact, it helped in HS civics class that we got an overview to Article I of the Constitution by watching the now-familiar cartoon on VCR while our teacher told us, "take notes! You'll be seeing this material shortly in a less friendly format." I know somebody else whose Civics teacher gave an extra-credit question: "Write down the Preamble to the Constitution" -- and a roomful of teenagers were happily humming as they remembered and wrote.
posted by pax digita at 3:29 PM on July 4, 2007
It is interesting and, in the context of the discussion, important to note that Schoolhouse rock abridged the Preamble in the song. The song goes "We the People, in Order to form a more perfect union...", whereas the Preamble is actually written "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union..."
It is disappointing to me as a Canadian that I know both the song and the above fact and yet cannot quote any single sentence of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:45 PM on July 4, 2007
It is disappointing to me as a Canadian that I know both the song and the above fact and yet cannot quote any single sentence of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:45 PM on July 4, 2007
Ortho: I'm sorry to have burst your home, then. ;)
I'll admit I loved listening to the cast recording of 1776
I LOVE 1776! I have it on DVD! I'll pop it in tonight in honor of the holiday.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 4:10 PM on July 4, 2007
I'll admit I loved listening to the cast recording of 1776
I LOVE 1776! I have it on DVD! I'll pop it in tonight in honor of the holiday.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 4:10 PM on July 4, 2007
I SUCK at math...at least the basics. If it hadn't been for the School House Rocks math songs, I would have failed the 3rd grade.
The Blind Melon cover of 3 is a magic number is the most fabulous song on that CD.
I too passed my Constitution quizzes in elementary school by singing the Preamble as I wrote.
I bought the videos for my kids when they were in elementary school.
I have to say...looking at the history ones with what I know now, esp about Manifest Destiny....it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
posted by gminks at 4:15 PM on July 4, 2007
The Blind Melon cover of 3 is a magic number is the most fabulous song on that CD.
I too passed my Constitution quizzes in elementary school by singing the Preamble as I wrote.
I bought the videos for my kids when they were in elementary school.
I have to say...looking at the history ones with what I know now, esp about Manifest Destiny....it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
posted by gminks at 4:15 PM on July 4, 2007
Sangermaine writes "I'm just blown away that you can't even accept that it might be helpful to some people."
Sure, I can accept that it's helpful to some. But I think that mnemonics prevent contextualing the information. Real power and utilty comes not from mere recitation, but understanding ideas and facts in their contexts, understanding how and from what they develop, understand not just what but why and how.
Too often, you get teachers who teach only the mnemonic (especially when the teacher is graded on how well his students test), and students who fail to learn that there's more to the subject than what the mnemonic covers. That's an especial disservice, because it produces adults who think they know something, while only knowing it superficially.
Yes, "in 1492 Columbus sailed the Ocean blue", but this fact is useless without context. "1492" becomes merely a date without understanding something the history of Europe and the Americas to that date. "Columbus" merely a name without understanding why anyone would be motivated to sail the Atlantic.
When I look back at my own schooling (and, comparatively, I was quite lucky), I despair at the lost opportunities. In third grade, I learned, by rote, the multiplication tables up to 12 * 12. How much better if I had learned then and there to factor numbers to their primes. I'd have had a much deeper understand of how math works if instead of learning that "three times four is twelve" I'd learned that four is just "two times two", and "three times four" is 2 * 2 * 3.
I also recall learning the history of the ancient Egyptians, a required several month "module" at one point in my early education. It bored the hell out of me, because it was all about pyramids and hieroglyphics and tombs and mummies. Now I wish I knew more about that period, but in the context of Ur and Babylon and the first city states and the founding of agriculture and the invention of writing. That's utterly fascinating and highly meaningful and wholly idependent of mummies.
Mnemonics suck out the lifeblood of a subject, the sinews that connect it to its context, the muscularity of interest it contains, solely to make it a more easily remembered dry and lifeless husk. A mnemonic is the pin that attaches to the cardboard of the mind the dry dead dessicated corpse of the butterfly that once flew as a stunning complex flitting fluttering living system. And the student then points to that dry grey corpse, having never seen it dance in the air, and that becomes his entire experience of "a butterfly".
Mnemonics inhibit the ability to really learn, in exchange for mere recitation.
posted by orthogonality at 4:27 PM on July 4, 2007
Sure, I can accept that it's helpful to some. But I think that mnemonics prevent contextualing the information. Real power and utilty comes not from mere recitation, but understanding ideas and facts in their contexts, understanding how and from what they develop, understand not just what but why and how.
Too often, you get teachers who teach only the mnemonic (especially when the teacher is graded on how well his students test), and students who fail to learn that there's more to the subject than what the mnemonic covers. That's an especial disservice, because it produces adults who think they know something, while only knowing it superficially.
Yes, "in 1492 Columbus sailed the Ocean blue", but this fact is useless without context. "1492" becomes merely a date without understanding something the history of Europe and the Americas to that date. "Columbus" merely a name without understanding why anyone would be motivated to sail the Atlantic.
When I look back at my own schooling (and, comparatively, I was quite lucky), I despair at the lost opportunities. In third grade, I learned, by rote, the multiplication tables up to 12 * 12. How much better if I had learned then and there to factor numbers to their primes. I'd have had a much deeper understand of how math works if instead of learning that "three times four is twelve" I'd learned that four is just "two times two", and "three times four" is 2 * 2 * 3.
I also recall learning the history of the ancient Egyptians, a required several month "module" at one point in my early education. It bored the hell out of me, because it was all about pyramids and hieroglyphics and tombs and mummies. Now I wish I knew more about that period, but in the context of Ur and Babylon and the first city states and the founding of agriculture and the invention of writing. That's utterly fascinating and highly meaningful and wholly idependent of mummies.
Mnemonics suck out the lifeblood of a subject, the sinews that connect it to its context, the muscularity of interest it contains, solely to make it a more easily remembered dry and lifeless husk. A mnemonic is the pin that attaches to the cardboard of the mind the dry dead dessicated corpse of the butterfly that once flew as a stunning complex flitting fluttering living system. And the student then points to that dry grey corpse, having never seen it dance in the air, and that becomes his entire experience of "a butterfly".
Mnemonics inhibit the ability to really learn, in exchange for mere recitation.
posted by orthogonality at 4:27 PM on July 4, 2007
What a lovely collection to have all in one spot. Thanks, Davenhill.
When I was a wee one and these cartoons first started making an impression on millions of American children, I was just barely starting to read (I taught myself, unbeknownst to my mom, around my 2nd year), and it helped to ingrain a civic curiosity my Bohemian upbringing would likely not have instilled, otherwise.
And that's not the sole reason I love them.
The other reason I love them is because the rest of the kids in the ghettos, slums, and low-income working class neighbourhoods I grew up in were also able to talk about these things with me, thanks to these cartoons.
They summarised, illustrated, and provided succinct health and societal information to a generation being raised by their televisions, and deserve the fondness that generation heaps upon them.
posted by batmonkey at 5:09 PM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
When I was a wee one and these cartoons first started making an impression on millions of American children, I was just barely starting to read (I taught myself, unbeknownst to my mom, around my 2nd year), and it helped to ingrain a civic curiosity my Bohemian upbringing would likely not have instilled, otherwise.
And that's not the sole reason I love them.
The other reason I love them is because the rest of the kids in the ghettos, slums, and low-income working class neighbourhoods I grew up in were also able to talk about these things with me, thanks to these cartoons.
They summarised, illustrated, and provided succinct health and societal information to a generation being raised by their televisions, and deserve the fondness that generation heaps upon them.
posted by batmonkey at 5:09 PM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Mnemonics inhibit the ability to really learn, in exchange for mere recitation.
You're blaming poor workmanship on the tools, not on the builder.
I also recall learning the history of the ancient Egyptians, a required several month "module" at one point in my early education. It bored the hell out of me, because it was all about pyramids and hieroglyphics and tombs and mummies. Now I wish I knew more about that period, but in the context of Ur and Babylon and the first city states and the founding of agriculture and the invention of writing. That's utterly fascinating and highly meaningful and wholly idependent of mummies.
And what does this have to do with mnemonics? I got Babylon, Ur, Hammurabi, agriculture, cuneiform, etc., in sixth grade, on top of Egypt, India, and Greece. That had nothing to do with Roy G. Biv.
Again, you're blaming the tools for the poor workmanship.
posted by dw at 5:33 PM on July 4, 2007
You're blaming poor workmanship on the tools, not on the builder.
I also recall learning the history of the ancient Egyptians, a required several month "module" at one point in my early education. It bored the hell out of me, because it was all about pyramids and hieroglyphics and tombs and mummies. Now I wish I knew more about that period, but in the context of Ur and Babylon and the first city states and the founding of agriculture and the invention of writing. That's utterly fascinating and highly meaningful and wholly idependent of mummies.
And what does this have to do with mnemonics? I got Babylon, Ur, Hammurabi, agriculture, cuneiform, etc., in sixth grade, on top of Egypt, India, and Greece. That had nothing to do with Roy G. Biv.
Again, you're blaming the tools for the poor workmanship.
posted by dw at 5:33 PM on July 4, 2007
Mnemonics suck out the lifeblood of a subject, the sinews that connect it to its context, the muscularity of interest it contains, solely to make it a more easily remembered dry and lifeless husk. A mnemonic is the pin that attaches to the cardboard of the mind the dry dead dessicated corpse of the butterfly that once flew as a stunning complex flitting fluttering living system. And the student then points to that dry grey corpse, having never seen it dance in the air, and that becomes his entire experience of "a butterfly".
Dude. Nobody loves a good juicy analogy more than I do, but please, for your own sake and ours...put down the metaphors and back. away. slowly.
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:52 PM on July 4, 2007
Dude. Nobody loves a good juicy analogy more than I do, but please, for your own sake and ours...put down the metaphors and back. away. slowly.
posted by GrammarMoses at 5:52 PM on July 4, 2007
Once I'd accidentally learned "right tighty, lefty-loosey" I could never remember thereafter which way to turn a screw, because the mnemonic would pop into my head and confuse the issue.
You are fucking kidding me.
posted by turaho at 6:04 PM on July 4, 2007
You are fucking kidding me.
posted by turaho at 6:04 PM on July 4, 2007
Funny, I just heard the song about pronouns (Rufus Xavier Sasperilla) yesterday. I don't think I watched these on Saturday mornings, but in elementary school sometimes teachers would supplement our learning with a video or two. I own the DVD and ought to watch it again.
posted by hopeless romantique at 6:08 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by hopeless romantique at 6:08 PM on July 4, 2007
These are all great, of course, but it's almost like the SHR guys outsourced the work on the Elbow Room cartoon to the Heritage Foundation.
One of these things is not like the other...
posted by Arch_Stanton at 6:12 PM on July 4, 2007
One of these things is not like the other...
posted by Arch_Stanton at 6:12 PM on July 4, 2007
Mnemonics suck out the lifeblood of a subject, the sinews that connect it to its context, the muscularity of interest it contains, solely to make it a more easily remembered dry and lifeless husk. A mnemonic is the pin that attaches to the cardboard of the mind the dry dead dessicated corpse of the butterfly that once flew as a stunning complex flitting fluttering living system. And the student then points to that dry grey corpse, having never seen it dance in the air, and that becomes his entire experience of "a butterfly".
Mnemonics inhibit the ability to really learn, in exchange for mere recitation.
SHR is fun little bits of information that introduced kids to ideas. They weren't intended to teach, or even to help kids recite facts by rote. The idea was that when you actually came across these concepts in school, you'd have already been introduced to them in a fun way. The fact that so many adults still remember them years later only proves how well they were crafted. Yes, a lot of folks remember the Preamble to that tune, but I doubt any of them consider that a replacement for learning Revolutionary-period history, any more than Bill Nye would be an acceptable stand in for an actual physics class.
As for mnemonics, they're not the evil you seem to be making them out as. Rote memorization in place of learning isn't great, I'll grant you that, but blaming a fairly well researched method of memory construction through information recoding for some sloppy teaching on a few folks part seems a little much to me, especially with such overwrought 'prose'.
Sometimes it's OK to just watch a cartoon and have a laugh.
posted by pupdog at 6:24 PM on July 4, 2007
Mnemonics inhibit the ability to really learn, in exchange for mere recitation.
SHR is fun little bits of information that introduced kids to ideas. They weren't intended to teach, or even to help kids recite facts by rote. The idea was that when you actually came across these concepts in school, you'd have already been introduced to them in a fun way. The fact that so many adults still remember them years later only proves how well they were crafted. Yes, a lot of folks remember the Preamble to that tune, but I doubt any of them consider that a replacement for learning Revolutionary-period history, any more than Bill Nye would be an acceptable stand in for an actual physics class.
As for mnemonics, they're not the evil you seem to be making them out as. Rote memorization in place of learning isn't great, I'll grant you that, but blaming a fairly well researched method of memory construction through information recoding for some sloppy teaching on a few folks part seems a little much to me, especially with such overwrought 'prose'.
Sometimes it's OK to just watch a cartoon and have a laugh.
posted by pupdog at 6:24 PM on July 4, 2007
Yes, mnemonics and rote memorization are terrible, terrible things that trivialize the human experience. Without them, we wouldn't have The Iliad, Beowulf, the Bhagavad Gita, the Chanson de Roland, the Navaho Diné, the Bobtail/Brother Rabbit stories or Child ballads.
Most of the most enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing sonic features of poetry and song originated in part as memory aids; people connect with them on very primal levels since they go back to our earliest intellectual history (if they're not hard-wired). Various mnemonic devices are highly useful in retaining some, not all, kinds of information -- and in triggering powerful associations to help us access what orthogonality would probably consider "deeper" or "better" or "more important" kinds of knowledge and thought.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:34 PM on July 4, 2007
Most of the most enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing sonic features of poetry and song originated in part as memory aids; people connect with them on very primal levels since they go back to our earliest intellectual history (if they're not hard-wired). Various mnemonic devices are highly useful in retaining some, not all, kinds of information -- and in triggering powerful associations to help us access what orthogonality would probably consider "deeper" or "better" or "more important" kinds of knowledge and thought.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:34 PM on July 4, 2007
deftly extended analogy aside, orthogonality, I don't understand why I need to have the "sinews" of context about screws and bolts and construction in general to remember that I rotate a screw clockwise to tighten it, and counterclockwise to loosen.
Similarly, why should I need to remember and constantly recall the vast concepts and information inherent to radiation and the way that my eye precives it, instead of just using "Roy G Biv".
Futhermore, I really cannot fathom why its necessary to teach this stupendously complex context to grade school students. The context of ur and mesopotamia with regards to egypt might be very interesting to you, and probably to most people who have even a passing interest in history, but I can assure you it would most likely just confuse the shit out of your standard second grader. The same probably goes for times tables. a solid grasp of the outcome of multiplication up to 12*12 allows for an easier grasp of other concepts (and for the record, right around when I was doing times tables, i distinctly remember doing factorization down to primes, so your fears may not be as well founded as you think). I agree that teaching only the mnemonic is a problem, but I see no problem with it being taught in order to provide a stepping stone to deeper context.
Finally, if you're not buying anything I'm saying, look at the issue you continue to fail to address.Schoolhouse Rock DOES NOT EQUAL a school environment. Its been said upthread, but these cartoons are by no means a substitute for a classroom environment. At least ideally, these are a suppliment to the context and ideas that students are learning in the classroom, and helping to solidify the basic facts, so that students can have a better grasp of more nuanced material.
In summary: context good, but mnemonics good too.
and as an aside: other than the above mentioned righty tightly, lefty loosey, and Roy G Biv (actually, Black Brown ROY G BV Gray White, for resistor bands), I haven't really used any other mnemonics, as I tend to find them as an extra step i had to memorize, and that I have an easier time just memorizing the material in question flat out.
On Preview: well, i guess what about half a dozen people said above me. if only I had committed my comment to some sort of handy limerick, I would have been able to recall it quicker!
posted by grandsham at 6:39 PM on July 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
Similarly, why should I need to remember and constantly recall the vast concepts and information inherent to radiation and the way that my eye precives it, instead of just using "Roy G Biv".
Futhermore, I really cannot fathom why its necessary to teach this stupendously complex context to grade school students. The context of ur and mesopotamia with regards to egypt might be very interesting to you, and probably to most people who have even a passing interest in history, but I can assure you it would most likely just confuse the shit out of your standard second grader. The same probably goes for times tables. a solid grasp of the outcome of multiplication up to 12*12 allows for an easier grasp of other concepts (and for the record, right around when I was doing times tables, i distinctly remember doing factorization down to primes, so your fears may not be as well founded as you think). I agree that teaching only the mnemonic is a problem, but I see no problem with it being taught in order to provide a stepping stone to deeper context.
Finally, if you're not buying anything I'm saying, look at the issue you continue to fail to address.Schoolhouse Rock DOES NOT EQUAL a school environment. Its been said upthread, but these cartoons are by no means a substitute for a classroom environment. At least ideally, these are a suppliment to the context and ideas that students are learning in the classroom, and helping to solidify the basic facts, so that students can have a better grasp of more nuanced material.
In summary: context good, but mnemonics good too.
and as an aside: other than the above mentioned righty tightly, lefty loosey, and Roy G Biv (actually, Black Brown ROY G BV Gray White, for resistor bands), I haven't really used any other mnemonics, as I tend to find them as an extra step i had to memorize, and that I have an easier time just memorizing the material in question flat out.
On Preview: well, i guess what about half a dozen people said above me. if only I had committed my comment to some sort of handy limerick, I would have been able to recall it quicker!
posted by grandsham at 6:39 PM on July 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
SHR is awesome.
However I learned the preamble many years before from Star Trek "The Omega Glory".
E Plebmnista; norcom, forcom, perfectumum...
"These words, and the words that follow, were not just written for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well!"
"But the Kohms–"
"They must apply to everyone, or they mean nothing! Do you understand?"
"I... do not fully understand, one named Kirk... but the Holy Words will be obeyed; I swear it!"
posted by tkchrist at 7:22 PM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
However I learned the preamble many years before from Star Trek "The Omega Glory".
E Plebmnista; norcom, forcom, perfectumum...
"These words, and the words that follow, were not just written for the Yangs, but for the Kohms as well!"
"But the Kohms–"
"They must apply to everyone, or they mean nothing! Do you understand?"
"I... do not fully understand, one named Kirk... but the Holy Words will be obeyed; I swear it!"
posted by tkchrist at 7:22 PM on July 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Bad Boys Race Our Young Girls Behind Victory Garden Walls.
That's the mnemonic I was taught to remember resistor values. Which is useful, because there is no rhyme or reason behind those colors/numbers.
Anyway, my attempt to memorize elements, presidents, US States, and countries of the world actually taught me more about them along the way. Memorization is part of knowledge, though not all of it of course. The idea that mnemonics and memorization are not potents tool for us to use to understand the universe is ridiculous Sometimes you just can't fit everything in at the same time.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:26 PM on July 4, 2007
That's the mnemonic I was taught to remember resistor values. Which is useful, because there is no rhyme or reason behind those colors/numbers.
Anyway, my attempt to memorize elements, presidents, US States, and countries of the world actually taught me more about them along the way. Memorization is part of knowledge, though not all of it of course. The idea that mnemonics and memorization are not potents tool for us to use to understand the universe is ridiculous Sometimes you just can't fit everything in at the same time.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:26 PM on July 4, 2007
I just wish I could remember if it's beer on whiskey, mighty frisky, whiskey on beer, never fear...or the other way around.
posted by rcavett at 8:24 PM on July 4, 2007
posted by rcavett at 8:24 PM on July 4, 2007
Not to get all meta on everyone, but this discussion is basically people remarking how much they like Schoolhouse Rock, how they grew up with it, remember it or however, and then orthogonality punches it in the face and the coversation goes in two directions: continuing to talk about how much they like Schoolhouse Rock, and people embarassed by, engaging in argument with, or commenting on orthogonality. Who then responds more.
In the context of this discussion, orthogonality is a rounding error.
posted by jscott at 8:36 PM on July 4, 2007
In the context of this discussion, orthogonality is a rounding error.
posted by jscott at 8:36 PM on July 4, 2007
rcavett: I use "beer before liquor, never sicker, liquor before beer, in the clear."
Anyone know if there's actual evidence to support this?
posted by naoko at 9:36 PM on July 4, 2007
Anyone know if there's actual evidence to support this?
posted by naoko at 9:36 PM on July 4, 2007
Anyone know if there's actual evidence to support this?
My independent research has shown that the different order affects nothing, but that's just me.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 9:44 PM on July 4, 2007
My independent research has shown that the different order affects nothing, but that's just me.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 9:44 PM on July 4, 2007
Try to convince me that knowing "Red and yellow, kill a fellow" is not a useful thing when you encounter a colorful, banded snake.
posted by darksasami at 10:29 AM on July 5, 2007
posted by darksasami at 10:29 AM on July 5, 2007
my evidence is purely anecdotal, but 'hard before beer, you're in the clear; beer before hard, you're in the yard' seems to hold more value the later the nite becomes...
posted by WhipSmart at 10:57 AM on July 5, 2007
posted by WhipSmart at 10:57 AM on July 5, 2007
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