Illegal attacks
August 29, 2007 3:46 PM Subscribe
Ian Brown, the former lead singer with The Stone Roses has a new single out. Illegal Attacks is an anti-war song featuring Sinead O'Connor urging the US and UK governments to "bring the soldiers back home". The striking thing about the song, to my mind, is its scarcity value.
The War in Vietnam brought us anti-war songs by Glen Campbell (Galveston); Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young (Ohio); Edwin Star (War!); Donovan (The Universal Soldier); Steppenwolf (Draft Resister); Billy Joel (Goodnight Saigon); Bruce Springstien (Born in the USA); Jimmy Cliff (Vietnam) Nina Simone (Backlash Blues) and many, many more . Why have the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are as deeply unpopular, not generated a similar body of work?
The Republican controlled Clear Channel didn't own and censor every radio station in the US in the late 60's and early 70's.
posted by eyeballkid at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by eyeballkid at 3:53 PM on August 29, 2007
whoa, get out of my brain, MrMerlot -- I was just saying to someone this morning that's it's a strange moment indeed when Ian Brown's one of the few musicians I can name with an antiwar song these days. (And yeah, it's going to get scant airplay at best in the states, anyway.)
posted by scody at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by scody at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2007
and I always found it amusing, the song and response song that is and dawn of correction and eve of destruction.
posted by nomisxid at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by nomisxid at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Wait--I always thought "Born in the USA" was a deeply patrotic song about pride in being born an American, much like "American Woman."
Just like "99 Luftbaloons" is about baloons on a nice spring day.
/I always look to political rallies and commercials for my interpretations of lyrics.
posted by MrGuilt at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2007 [3 favorites]
Just like "99 Luftbaloons" is about baloons on a nice spring day.
/I always look to political rallies and commercials for my interpretations of lyrics.
posted by MrGuilt at 3:58 PM on August 29, 2007 [3 favorites]
Beastie Boys also put out "World Gone Mad"
Here are some more that may not be from mainstream artists, but nonetheless still protest songs.
posted by vannsant at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2007
Here are some more that may not be from mainstream artists, but nonetheless still protest songs.
posted by vannsant at 4:01 PM on August 29, 2007
Does not a day go by
Without the Israeli Air Force
Fail to drop it’s bombs from the sky?
The striking thing about the song, to my mind, is its utter gibberish.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Without the Israeli Air Force
Fail to drop it’s bombs from the sky?
The striking thing about the song, to my mind, is its utter gibberish.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Ian Brown's one of the few musicians I can name with an antiwar song these days. (And yeah, it's going to get scant airplay at best in the states, anyway.)
Uhhhh...I'm as big a Stonroses/IB fan as anyone, but the lyrics are not going to be the reason it's ignored in North America, being that he's never competed on American Idol his airplay prospects are pretty limited.
posted by Keith Talent at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Uhhhh...I'm as big a Stonroses/IB fan as anyone, but the lyrics are not going to be the reason it's ignored in North America, being that he's never competed on American Idol his airplay prospects are pretty limited.
posted by Keith Talent at 4:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Why have the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are as deeply unpopular, not generated a similar body of work?
Because there's no draft.
posted by bardic at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2007
Because there's no draft.
posted by bardic at 4:04 PM on August 29, 2007
BTW, "Ohio" is actually about the Kent State shootings and not directly protesting the war.
posted by vannsant at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by vannsant at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2007
There's also Richard Thompson's Dad's Gonna Kill Me. [sorry about the lame YouTube montage].
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:07 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:07 PM on August 29, 2007
I think this was discussed recently on MeFi, Neil Young has a web site with thousands of protest songs.
I think the fact that we don't have a draft has a lot to do with the lack of protest in any form. The pentagon learned many lessons from Vietnam, including how to sell a war at home.
On preview: what bardic said.
posted by Sailormom at 4:11 PM on August 29, 2007
I think the fact that we don't have a draft has a lot to do with the lack of protest in any form. The pentagon learned many lessons from Vietnam, including how to sell a war at home.
On preview: what bardic said.
posted by Sailormom at 4:11 PM on August 29, 2007
I think Bardic nailed it. The war being merely unpopular isn't enough to make a large number of Americans really feel they're being impacted by the war.
posted by hominid211 at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by hominid211 at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2007
and Ministry's last two albums.
posted by boo_radley at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by boo_radley at 4:12 PM on August 29, 2007
I'm as big a Stonroses/IB fan as anyone, but the lyrics are not going to be the reason it's ignored in North America, being that he's never competed on American Idol his airplay prospects are pretty limited.
I don't mean to snark, but... that was my point. Of course Ian Brown's never going to get major airplay in the states in the first place. The fact that it's an explicit antiwar song is simply another nail in the airplay coffin.
posted by scody at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2007
I don't mean to snark, but... that was my point. Of course Ian Brown's never going to get major airplay in the states in the first place. The fact that it's an explicit antiwar song is simply another nail in the airplay coffin.
posted by scody at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2007
Not to mention the totally and completely awesome Antiamerikansk.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:14 PM on August 29, 2007
Vietnam = 580000 American Deaths. Iraq = 3733 so far. Iran war = ???
Sit tight, I fear you'll have your songs soon enough.
posted by Optamystic at 4:20 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sit tight, I fear you'll have your songs soon enough.
posted by Optamystic at 4:20 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
By the way, what rhymes with "Armageddon"?
posted by Optamystic at 4:21 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Optamystic at 4:21 PM on August 29, 2007
Vietnam = 580000 American Deaths
I think you've got an extra zero in there somewhere
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:24 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think you've got an extra zero in there somewhere
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:24 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
You can find a list of songs inspired by the Iraq War on NPR's All Songs Considered.
Not included on the list, but worthy of mention are
Merle Haggard's "Rebuild America First"
and
Neil Young's "Living with War"
posted by vorpal bunny at 4:32 PM on August 29, 2007
Not included on the list, but worthy of mention are
Merle Haggard's "Rebuild America First"
and
Neil Young's "Living with War"
posted by vorpal bunny at 4:32 PM on August 29, 2007
Suck a lemon.
posted by stinkycheese at 4:36 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by stinkycheese at 4:36 PM on August 29, 2007
If you are a major label artist and you're active in the year 2007, you are scared. You're scared of downloading and dwindling record sales, you're scared that your record company is going to downsize/get bought, you're scared of the more-rabid-each-minute tabloid press, you're scared that you're going to get dropped without a second chance.
And who can blame you? If you read a magazine article about mainstream music, one of these topics comes up. One or more. TV, the same thing. And the internet... whoo, boy. You are told to be scared.
So, what do you do? You play it safe. You stay in the middle of the road. You compromise. You do what you are told. Look at what they did to the Dixie Chicks! And really, you're not that interested in politics to begin with.
Problem is, at the same time you're contributing to your own downfall. You're part of the downward spiral. One of these days you'll wake up and realize that you've been replaced by a clone.
And although they may not tell you this, your record company is scared to. For all the same reasons as you. You could have made a stance together, but your necks were on the line. Or at least, so you thought.
So, your record company is fucked as well. Cue even more media scares.
Each and every night after the big fuck off, you and your record company fall asleep longing for the good old days. Why oh why aren't they like that nowadays?
Well, you tell me.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 4:36 PM on August 29, 2007 [4 favorites]
And who can blame you? If you read a magazine article about mainstream music, one of these topics comes up. One or more. TV, the same thing. And the internet... whoo, boy. You are told to be scared.
So, what do you do? You play it safe. You stay in the middle of the road. You compromise. You do what you are told. Look at what they did to the Dixie Chicks! And really, you're not that interested in politics to begin with.
Problem is, at the same time you're contributing to your own downfall. You're part of the downward spiral. One of these days you'll wake up and realize that you've been replaced by a clone.
And although they may not tell you this, your record company is scared to. For all the same reasons as you. You could have made a stance together, but your necks were on the line. Or at least, so you thought.
So, your record company is fucked as well. Cue even more media scares.
Each and every night after the big fuck off, you and your record company fall asleep longing for the good old days. Why oh why aren't they like that nowadays?
Well, you tell me.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 4:36 PM on August 29, 2007 [4 favorites]
"By the way, what rhymes with Armageddon?"
Joss Whedon?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Joss Whedon?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:37 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
this was also posted at Linkfilter and I noted: no draft. Note this: how much protesting taking place, physically? next to nothing. It is other's mothber's sons, having signed up for the Guard or Reserves, who are going and who got paid to serve so it is THEIR war...
posted by Postroad at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Postroad at 4:47 PM on August 29, 2007
Ian Brown, you may not know from listening to his heavily-produced and note-corrected recordings, is basically tone deaf.
He headlined at Reading some time back in the 1990s and I' here to tell you that he emptied the main arena in under 10 minutes. About 35,000 people fucked off somewhere else to avoid listening to any more of his shit. Set ended half an hour early.
I'd sooner listen to Paris Hilton covering "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" while goose-stepping around in lederhosen than anything at all by that fucknut.
posted by genghis at 4:55 PM on August 29, 2007
He headlined at Reading some time back in the 1990s and I' here to tell you that he emptied the main arena in under 10 minutes. About 35,000 people fucked off somewhere else to avoid listening to any more of his shit. Set ended half an hour early.
I'd sooner listen to Paris Hilton covering "Tomorrow Belongs To Me" while goose-stepping around in lederhosen than anything at all by that fucknut.
posted by genghis at 4:55 PM on August 29, 2007
Wait--I always thought "Born in the USA" was a deeply patrotic song about pride in being born an American, much like "American Woman."
WTF?????? American Woman? have you ever even listened to that song??? and springsteen's tune was way way way after vietnam.
posted by quonsar at 4:59 PM on August 29, 2007
WTF?????? American Woman? have you ever even listened to that song??? and springsteen's tune was way way way after vietnam.
posted by quonsar at 4:59 PM on August 29, 2007
I know the guy's name came up in another thread today, but one of the best songs I've yet heard about the Iraq war is Jason Isbell's Dress Blues.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 4:59 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by BitterOldPunk at 4:59 PM on August 29, 2007
Ted Leo (mentioned recently) does some excellent war protest songs. See here. Check out Bomb-Repeat-Bomb. His last two albums have had lots of great songs in that vein.
posted by otolith at 5:02 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by otolith at 5:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Sell also, my recent FPP about anti-war songs of the Vietnam era.
posted by Poolio at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Poolio at 5:03 PM on August 29, 2007
er..58000 American deaths in Vietnam. Apologies to the families of the half million brave servicemen and I thoughtlessly slaughtered with a the touch of a key.
Good catch, ZippityBuddha. You are hereby awarded the Congressional Medal of Freedom for your heroic actions.
posted by Optamystic at 5:06 PM on August 29, 2007
Good catch, ZippityBuddha. You are hereby awarded the Congressional Medal of Freedom for your heroic actions.
posted by Optamystic at 5:06 PM on August 29, 2007
and = that. I'm going to bed now.
posted by Optamystic at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Optamystic at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2007
See also: Undefined, an antiwar song right around the corner at MeFiMusic from yours truly.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:07 PM on August 29, 2007
Fixed that for myself.
posted by Poolio at 5:08 PM on August 29, 2007
Of course, there's pretty much every song recorded by Michael Franti since 2002.
But I understand what y'all are saying about mainstream commercial radio. Popular music is just an entirely different animal than it was in 1972. I'd argue that among serious artists there's just as many songs written about the Iraq war as there were about the Vietnam war. It's just that there's so much other crap that dilutes the good stuff out.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:15 PM on August 29, 2007
But I understand what y'all are saying about mainstream commercial radio. Popular music is just an entirely different animal than it was in 1972. I'd argue that among serious artists there's just as many songs written about the Iraq war as there were about the Vietnam war. It's just that there's so much other crap that dilutes the good stuff out.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:15 PM on August 29, 2007
I always thought "Born in the USA" was a deeply patrotic song about pride in being born an American
I'm going to have to assume that you are either deaf, illiterate or insane. It's patriotic, but not in the way that you think. It's sung from the point of view of an unemployed Vietnam Vet, and is a very angry song.
posted by jonmc at 5:16 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm going to have to assume that you are either deaf, illiterate or insane. It's patriotic, but not in the way that you think. It's sung from the point of view of an unemployed Vietnam Vet, and is a very angry song.
posted by jonmc at 5:16 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Vietnam = 580000 American Deaths
Just for the sake of attempted accuracy:
58,156 (which includes men formerly classified as MIA and Mayaguez casualties).
Twenty-seven (27) additional men have died of wounds sustained in the Vietnam War which brings the American death total to 58,183, depending on how you count it. This number will go up if you count people who are still dying of wounds they received there.
posted by cccorlew at 5:20 PM on August 29, 2007
Just for the sake of attempted accuracy:
58,156 (which includes men formerly classified as MIA and Mayaguez casualties).
Twenty-seven (27) additional men have died of wounds sustained in the Vietnam War which brings the American death total to 58,183, depending on how you count it. This number will go up if you count people who are still dying of wounds they received there.
posted by cccorlew at 5:20 PM on August 29, 2007
I'm going to have to assume that you are either deaf, illiterate or insane. It's patriotic, but not in the way that you think. It's sung from the point of view of an unemployed Vietnam Vet, and is a very angry song.
And we'll just assume you didn't read the second half of MrGuilt's comment.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:26 PM on August 29, 2007
And we'll just assume you didn't read the second half of MrGuilt's comment.
posted by eyeballkid at 5:26 PM on August 29, 2007
I believe MrGuilt was being sarcastic in his innocent interpretations of "Born in the USA," "American Woman," and "99 Luftballoons."
"American Woman" was originally written with the difference between the harder-edged, more brazen American girls Burton Cummings had met on tour. He was going to write a song about "Canadian Woman...fresh-faced and pure...." He hadn't yet completed the song, but Randy Bachman broke a string onstage at a club in Hamilton, so the band started jamming and the riff for Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love" came up, and Cummings started scatting his "American Woman" lyrics. The crowd loved it, so the song stayed as it was. Sorry to hijack, but the point is, he didn't intend it to be an anti-war or anti-America song when he started it.
posted by Oriole Adams at 5:28 PM on August 29, 2007
"American Woman" was originally written with the difference between the harder-edged, more brazen American girls Burton Cummings had met on tour. He was going to write a song about "Canadian Woman...fresh-faced and pure...." He hadn't yet completed the song, but Randy Bachman broke a string onstage at a club in Hamilton, so the band started jamming and the riff for Zeppelin's "Whole Lotta Love" came up, and Cummings started scatting his "American Woman" lyrics. The crowd loved it, so the song stayed as it was. Sorry to hijack, but the point is, he didn't intend it to be an anti-war or anti-America song when he started it.
posted by Oriole Adams at 5:28 PM on August 29, 2007
Antiwar songs may feel good to listen to, but they are not going to effect any change.
But you all know that already.
posted by everichon at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2007
But you all know that already.
posted by everichon at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2007
It could be that this generation of musicians just aren't self-centred enough?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:29 PM on August 29, 2007
Though I did hear a powerful anti-war song today. It went something like this.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:33 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:33 PM on August 29, 2007
The other thing is that the protest song was new back then. Now it is already overdone. Plus, even though we know that there was no linkage to what we decided to do in Iraq, the fact that a bunch of people flew some planes into some buildings at the beginning of all of this kinda confused the issue for a lot of people. Without 9/11, none of this would have ever happened.
Kinda makes it hard to point out stuff.
Plus the right-wing noise machine did not exist back then and there was no immediate attack back then the way things are now.
Still, the songs are out there.
When the President Talks to God
President
posted by Ironmouth at 5:40 PM on August 29, 2007
Kinda makes it hard to point out stuff.
Plus the right-wing noise machine did not exist back then and there was no immediate attack back then the way things are now.
Still, the songs are out there.
When the President Talks to God
President
posted by Ironmouth at 5:40 PM on August 29, 2007
You know, there's also the "lost innocence" issue with the Vietnam war. In the 60's, I think a lot of young people were really outraged and surprised that the great United States would commit the acts of atrocity they were seeing in Vietnam. They had to get the word out. Nowadays, we're all pretty much used to the fact that our bombs kill children.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:41 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 5:41 PM on August 29, 2007
Ted Leo may be the best protest singer going right now. Against Me!, TV on the Radio, Bright Eyes, the Thermals, Bjork, Devendra Banhart, and Talib Kweli have all done some remarkable work as well. Granted, a lot of current protest music is against the Bush administration in general instead of the war(s) in specific, but there's a lot of crimes, sins, and various misdeeds to speak out against.
I think you'd be better off not asking "Why aren't there any anti-war songs out there?" and instead questioning why there haven't been many popular anti-war songs yet.
posted by thatswherebatslive at 5:43 PM on August 29, 2007
I think you'd be better off not asking "Why aren't there any anti-war songs out there?" and instead questioning why there haven't been many popular anti-war songs yet.
posted by thatswherebatslive at 5:43 PM on August 29, 2007
Pop stars don't come much bigger than Madonna, and a centrepiece of her latest album was an antiwar song, but apparently it caused enough outrage that she withdrew it.
posted by -harlequin- at 5:49 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by -harlequin- at 5:49 PM on August 29, 2007
quonsar, jonmc, and anyone else who took me at face value: Oriole Adams is right. I was being sarcastic (though I do appreciate his bit on "American Woman").
Songs used in a fashion contradictory to their meaning is somewhat of a hobby of mine--a variation on misheard lyrics. In short, you're only listening to the chorus. Another one, just for the sake of discussion, is "Land Down Under." Thanks for clueing me in Lyrics Undercover
As a last-generation Cold War kid (relating more to "The Day After" than "Bert the Turtle"), the current use of "99 Luftbaloons" as a sunny-day song really bugs me.
Contributing to the Topic:
To be honest, I think there are a few factors already mentioned--the number of deaths, they lack of a draft, and the general desire of corporate overlords not wanting to go against the administration (after all, the RIAA needs them to pursue 2 year olds).
One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that, overall, the administration has tried to downplay the whole War on Terrorism as a factor in people's everyday lives (unless you go to an airport). Spend money, drive an SUV. To hide or to sacrifice means that the terrorists have won.
The country has been in denial until relatively recently--I think Katrina is probably what turned the tide on the fallibility of the Administration, and calling them into question on other things came into vogue.
posted by MrGuilt at 5:51 PM on August 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
Songs used in a fashion contradictory to their meaning is somewhat of a hobby of mine--a variation on misheard lyrics. In short, you're only listening to the chorus. Another one, just for the sake of discussion, is "Land Down Under." Thanks for clueing me in Lyrics Undercover
As a last-generation Cold War kid (relating more to "The Day After" than "Bert the Turtle"), the current use of "99 Luftbaloons" as a sunny-day song really bugs me.
Contributing to the Topic:
To be honest, I think there are a few factors already mentioned--the number of deaths, they lack of a draft, and the general desire of corporate overlords not wanting to go against the administration (after all, the RIAA needs them to pursue 2 year olds).
One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that, overall, the administration has tried to downplay the whole War on Terrorism as a factor in people's everyday lives (unless you go to an airport). Spend money, drive an SUV. To hide or to sacrifice means that the terrorists have won.
The country has been in denial until relatively recently--I think Katrina is probably what turned the tide on the fallibility of the Administration, and calling them into question on other things came into vogue.
posted by MrGuilt at 5:51 PM on August 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
By the way, what rhymes with "Armageddon"?
"Heavy pettin'."
posted by bokane at 6:01 PM on August 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
"Heavy pettin'."
posted by bokane at 6:01 PM on August 29, 2007 [2 favorites]
quonsar doesn't take anyone at face value.
more leik ass value lol
posted by ODiV at 6:02 PM on August 29, 2007
more leik ass value lol
posted by ODiV at 6:02 PM on August 29, 2007
Take this anecdote for what it's worth, but my fellow Americans can be an incredibly callous bunch of assholes when it comes to serving abroad (just ask John Kerry). Back in 2004-2005, when the first (relatively minor) grumblings were emerging, mostly from National Guard units, about how we weren't exactly being treated as Cheney's "liberators," and the two-weeks a year, one-weekend a month thing was out the window, I had friends and relatives who were far more pro-war and pro-Bush than I ever was laughing at these guys -- "Those idiots signed up for it, they shouldn't whine about coming home." Granted, now that it's almost 2008, they're probably a bit more circumspect about this shit, but in general the attitude is exactly the same. Deploying for your fifth or sixth tour? Sucks to be you. Should have sucked it up and finished college and gotten your 401K in place rather than sign up for this garbage. You'll have to take my word for it, but again, these are pro-Bush, pro-occupation types, not the FOX-News strawmen of the "angry librul who hates the troops."
So this is just a long way of saying, I'm not sure what the intention of this FPP was. 95% of Americans don't give a fuck about Iraq and more specifically, the sacrifices being made by their fellow citizens. As long as they don't have relatives over there and gas prices stay level (IMO, this is why no action will or can be taken against Iran, as much as President Pissy-pants would really like to), sorry, but the vast majority of Americans couldn't give less of a fuck about some kid getting blown apart by an IED. Now please, shut up and let me here that "Umbrella" song one more time.
posted by bardic at 6:22 PM on August 29, 2007
So this is just a long way of saying, I'm not sure what the intention of this FPP was. 95% of Americans don't give a fuck about Iraq and more specifically, the sacrifices being made by their fellow citizens. As long as they don't have relatives over there and gas prices stay level (IMO, this is why no action will or can be taken against Iran, as much as President Pissy-pants would really like to), sorry, but the vast majority of Americans couldn't give less of a fuck about some kid getting blown apart by an IED. Now please, shut up and let me here that "Umbrella" song one more time.
posted by bardic at 6:22 PM on August 29, 2007
There's plenty of anti-war songs, and I think enough of them are popular. Remember, the smart kids these days are not listening to the radio or buying CDs in the store. If you wanted to measure a band's popularity you'd have to go through people's MP3 collections, or, perhaps more feasibly, try to watch how fast concerts sell out. So as an example, Arcade Fire tickets sell out instantaneously, and here's some lyrics from their latest album:
I don't want to fight in the holy war
I don't want the salesmen knocking at my door
I don't want to live in America no more
If there's a difference, I think it's that outside of the punk kids, the anti-war sentiment in songs & albums tends to be more nuanced, less direct "protest song." This is probably because what's coming out that's popular with the same kids who would have been buying Dylan or CSNY back in the day is not folk-tinged straightforward 60s/70s rock but indie stuff that's more nuanced in general. And the kids are still listening to Dylan and CSNY as well.
For example, listening to The National's album Boxer, I can't pick out any real protest song, but the whole thing has a sort of disgust at living in, as put in the title of the first track, the American "Fake Empire." You also have things like Godspeed You! Black Emperor. Admittedly they have been on hiatus since before the current war, but their songs are instrumental / found sound and the band was still ridiculously anti-America. (Actually, their more recently active offshoot Silver Mt. Zion has a lot of straight-up protest songs, but they're not anywhere near as popular as Godspeed got.)
But, if you want a recent, straight up protest song by a popular band, Muse - Take A Bow is it. It's the most vitriolic song I've ever heard with the possible exception of Shellac - Prayer To God.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:43 PM on August 29, 2007
I don't want to fight in the holy war
I don't want the salesmen knocking at my door
I don't want to live in America no more
If there's a difference, I think it's that outside of the punk kids, the anti-war sentiment in songs & albums tends to be more nuanced, less direct "protest song." This is probably because what's coming out that's popular with the same kids who would have been buying Dylan or CSNY back in the day is not folk-tinged straightforward 60s/70s rock but indie stuff that's more nuanced in general. And the kids are still listening to Dylan and CSNY as well.
For example, listening to The National's album Boxer, I can't pick out any real protest song, but the whole thing has a sort of disgust at living in, as put in the title of the first track, the American "Fake Empire." You also have things like Godspeed You! Black Emperor. Admittedly they have been on hiatus since before the current war, but their songs are instrumental / found sound and the band was still ridiculously anti-America. (Actually, their more recently active offshoot Silver Mt. Zion has a lot of straight-up protest songs, but they're not anywhere near as popular as Godspeed got.)
But, if you want a recent, straight up protest song by a popular band, Muse - Take A Bow is it. It's the most vitriolic song I've ever heard with the possible exception of Shellac - Prayer To God.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 6:43 PM on August 29, 2007
Since Vietnam there has been a (pop) explosion of songs and events with stars and mega-stars to better the world. I guess most people just are not interested anymore - and pop has lost any credibility anyway.
Saint Bob and Bono have made hunger and Africa their personal vehicles.
Plus there is no longer a big establishment within society supporting these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The people already protested and in some countries voted against them. So there is no need for 'songs' to make people concious about the issue or to support the opposition. It's already all there ...
posted by homodigitalis at 7:03 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Saint Bob and Bono have made hunger and Africa their personal vehicles.
Plus there is no longer a big establishment within society supporting these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The people already protested and in some countries voted against them. So there is no need for 'songs' to make people concious about the issue or to support the opposition. It's already all there ...
posted by homodigitalis at 7:03 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
95% of Americans don't give a fuck about Iraq and more specifically, the sacrifices being made by their fellow citizens.
Unless of course, they know somebody serving there, and I imagine that number's higher than 5%. Just saying.
Nit that this negates the point about how the lack of a draft has made the whole thing surrounding this war different than Vietnam. At my Dad's 60th birthday 2 years ago, my Aunt gave a speech mentioning his service in-country. Afterwards my Dad and all my uncles and their friends all could recal getting their draft notices, what their numbers were and friends who served and never came back. In those days, one way or another the draft was something you had to deal with. You could even make the case that baby-boomers were more likely to be college educated mainly to avoid the draft, and I don't blame them. These days the expoerience is far less universal.
posted by jonmc at 7:14 PM on August 29, 2007
Unless of course, they know somebody serving there, and I imagine that number's higher than 5%. Just saying.
Nit that this negates the point about how the lack of a draft has made the whole thing surrounding this war different than Vietnam. At my Dad's 60th birthday 2 years ago, my Aunt gave a speech mentioning his service in-country. Afterwards my Dad and all my uncles and their friends all could recal getting their draft notices, what their numbers were and friends who served and never came back. In those days, one way or another the draft was something you had to deal with. You could even make the case that baby-boomers were more likely to be college educated mainly to avoid the draft, and I don't blame them. These days the expoerience is far less universal.
posted by jonmc at 7:14 PM on August 29, 2007
This was my addition to the anti-Iraq war musical legacy.
posted by PHINC at 7:20 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by PHINC at 7:20 PM on August 29, 2007
Since when was the war in Afghanistan "deeply unpopular"?? The opposition to the action in Afghanistan was nowhere near what it was for Iraq.
posted by mattholomew at 7:28 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by mattholomew at 7:28 PM on August 29, 2007
Also, what was illegal about the war in Afghanistan?
posted by mattholomew at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by mattholomew at 7:30 PM on August 29, 2007
Well Ian Brown rather took his time with this no? Killing Joke's 2003 record on which Dave Grohl played drums is pretty anti-war. Seeing Red actually got airplay while Total Invasion , unsurprisingly, didn't. Total Invasion has a magnificiently elegent yet brutal guitar hook and I just love how they beat around the symbolic bush:
"It's a fucking crusade
A lesson trade
So all you intellectuals
We're gonna invade"
posted by well_balanced at 7:44 PM on August 29, 2007
"It's a fucking crusade
A lesson trade
So all you intellectuals
We're gonna invade"
posted by well_balanced at 7:44 PM on August 29, 2007
You know those "What do you think of Bush?" banner-ads that turn political kneejerks into click traffic $$$? That's what I think of most pop musicians - the aristocracy of our time - making songs about the war.
But Jezebel by The Drones is good.
posted by kid ichorous at 8:21 PM on August 29, 2007
But Jezebel by The Drones is good.
posted by kid ichorous at 8:21 PM on August 29, 2007
Dear Mr President by Pink is not specifically anti-war but is definitely a protest song. I saw the video on my local music video station and was surprised at its venom:
What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine.
I was not surprised to find out that it wasn't released as a single in the USA.
posted by meech at 8:24 PM on August 29, 2007
What kind of father would take his own daughter's rights away?
And what kind of father might hate his own daughter if she were gay?
I can only imagine what the first lady has to say
You've come a long way from whiskey and cocaine.
I was not surprised to find out that it wasn't released as a single in the USA.
posted by meech at 8:24 PM on August 29, 2007
"Here's to the State of George W.", which is an updated version of Phil Ochs' "Here's to the State of Mississippi", written by Tim Robbins and performed by Eddie Vedder (w/Robbins).
posted by Poolio at 8:32 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by Poolio at 8:32 PM on August 29, 2007
Plus the right-wing noise machine did not exist back then
that's because it was thoroughly integrated into society, many of its ideas were accepted by many and many of its values were accepted by the liberals of those days, who were much more socially conservative than today's liberals are
the reason the right wing is noisy these days is because they are losing the hold they used to have on society before the 60s came
example - i remember my dad driving through grand rapids on a sunday, anxiously looking for one open gas station, as he was running low - he'd come from the north, went all the way through town without finding one, and finally found one out in the sticks by 44th street - (that's now in the middle of the burbs, but anyway)
example - there was a time in my public high school, if a guy had hair below the collar he could cut it off or be suspended
example - it also took a long time for schools in my area to allow girls to wear pantsuits or jeans
example - one girl in my class got pregnant - she was not allowed in school - she was sent away - that's what they did in the small city midwest in the early 70s
the right wing didn't need a noise machine because society was very conservative back then ... the loud outrage and endless blather you hear these days from conservatives is from people who once had control of society in many parts of the country and have now lost it - they are desperate, they are scared and they are outraged that this has happened to them - and then there's that little thing about all the factories closing down, the economy going to hell and the world going crazy, flying airplanes into our buildings
some people can't fucking cope with change without having a nervous breakdown - the bush administration is our national nervous breakdown
music? - that's too overt - people are into passive/aggressive these days - they nod "whatever" - and then do whatever the hell they want, which for most of us doesn't include signing up for a war
here's what i mean - (May 22, 2002) - The Selective Service System today released its annual state-by-state registration compliance report card, with Delaware becoming the first state to reach nearly 100 percent compliance since the Agency began compiling this data. Nationally, registration compliance held fairly steady at 86 percent, down a percentage point from last year's high-water mark of 87 percent.
that's right, after 9-11, 14 percent of those required by law to register didn't
just imagine what they would do if there was a draft - why protest when you can just ignore it in such numbers that the government can't do anything about it?
when was the last time you heard of someone arrested for failing to register?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:54 PM on August 29, 2007 [5 favorites]
that's because it was thoroughly integrated into society, many of its ideas were accepted by many and many of its values were accepted by the liberals of those days, who were much more socially conservative than today's liberals are
the reason the right wing is noisy these days is because they are losing the hold they used to have on society before the 60s came
example - i remember my dad driving through grand rapids on a sunday, anxiously looking for one open gas station, as he was running low - he'd come from the north, went all the way through town without finding one, and finally found one out in the sticks by 44th street - (that's now in the middle of the burbs, but anyway)
example - there was a time in my public high school, if a guy had hair below the collar he could cut it off or be suspended
example - it also took a long time for schools in my area to allow girls to wear pantsuits or jeans
example - one girl in my class got pregnant - she was not allowed in school - she was sent away - that's what they did in the small city midwest in the early 70s
the right wing didn't need a noise machine because society was very conservative back then ... the loud outrage and endless blather you hear these days from conservatives is from people who once had control of society in many parts of the country and have now lost it - they are desperate, they are scared and they are outraged that this has happened to them - and then there's that little thing about all the factories closing down, the economy going to hell and the world going crazy, flying airplanes into our buildings
some people can't fucking cope with change without having a nervous breakdown - the bush administration is our national nervous breakdown
music? - that's too overt - people are into passive/aggressive these days - they nod "whatever" - and then do whatever the hell they want, which for most of us doesn't include signing up for a war
here's what i mean - (May 22, 2002) - The Selective Service System today released its annual state-by-state registration compliance report card, with Delaware becoming the first state to reach nearly 100 percent compliance since the Agency began compiling this data. Nationally, registration compliance held fairly steady at 86 percent, down a percentage point from last year's high-water mark of 87 percent.
that's right, after 9-11, 14 percent of those required by law to register didn't
just imagine what they would do if there was a draft - why protest when you can just ignore it in such numbers that the government can't do anything about it?
when was the last time you heard of someone arrested for failing to register?
posted by pyramid termite at 8:54 PM on August 29, 2007 [5 favorites]
I'm going to have to assume that you are either deaf, illiterate or insane. It's patriotic, but not in the way that you think. It's sung from the point of view of an unemployed Vietnam Vet, and is a very angry song.
C'mon, now. You're better than that jonmc. Did you read his post. Really? Really, really?
I have reproduced the bit of his post you and others did not read below. To help you and the others out, I have even made it bold. Here it comes now:
/I always look to political rallies and commercials for my interpretations of lyrics.
posted by sparkletone at 9:21 PM on August 29, 2007
C'mon, now. You're better than that jonmc. Did you read his post. Really? Really, really?
I have reproduced the bit of his post you and others did not read below. To help you and the others out, I have even made it bold. Here it comes now:
/I always look to political rallies and commercials for my interpretations of lyrics.
posted by sparkletone at 9:21 PM on August 29, 2007
Heh.
And I should learn to refresh a thread before replying so I do not reply to a comment already replied to five times over.
Maybe one of these days, I'll even try out that "preview" button I see so often.
posted by sparkletone at 9:22 PM on August 29, 2007
And I should learn to refresh a thread before replying so I do not reply to a comment already replied to five times over.
Maybe one of these days, I'll even try out that "preview" button I see so often.
posted by sparkletone at 9:22 PM on August 29, 2007
music? - that's too overt - people are into passive/aggressive these days - they nod "whatever" - and then do whatever the hell they want, which for most of us doesn't include signing up for a war
It's the 'meh' generation.
posted by scheptech at 9:42 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's the 'meh' generation.
posted by scheptech at 9:42 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Bomb The World. [Mp3]
Me and Michael Franti, Victoria, BC, 2004.
We used to hang.
posted by humannaire at 10:53 PM on August 29, 2007
Me and Michael Franti, Victoria, BC, 2004.
We used to hang.
posted by humannaire at 10:53 PM on August 29, 2007
BTW, another new definition for BTW, courtesy Michael Franti. [Flash; pop-up, but otherwise okay]
posted by humannaire at 10:58 PM on August 29, 2007
posted by humannaire at 10:58 PM on August 29, 2007
I don't think Goodnight Saigon is an anti-war song, per se. It's not "pro-war", but the lyrics taken at face value are just a memoir of a frightened young soldier's time in Vietnam.
posted by jonson at 11:38 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by jonson at 11:38 PM on August 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
There are anti-war songs out there. Some are anti-bush, there is Eminem's Mosh
Let the president answer a higher anarchy Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war. Let him impress daddy that way
Audioslave's Sound Of A Gun
This is for the daughters and sons of forgotten ones learning how to stand
This is for the innocent unknowns buried in the sand
and also Your Time Has Come
I've seen 50,000 names all engraved on a stone
Most of them men under the grave years before I was born. All of them left brothers and sisters and mothers behind. And most of their family and friends have all had their time
and recently Linkin Park's Hands Held High
Like this war's really just a different brand of war
Like it doesn't cater the rich and abandon the poor
A friend of mine who obsesses over Linkin Park said he hates their new album because..."it's all whining"
I second the 'meh' generation name calling.
posted by M Edward at 12:15 AM on August 30, 2007
Let the president answer a higher anarchy Strap him with an Ak-47, let him go, fight his own war. Let him impress daddy that way
Audioslave's Sound Of A Gun
This is for the daughters and sons of forgotten ones learning how to stand
This is for the innocent unknowns buried in the sand
and also Your Time Has Come
I've seen 50,000 names all engraved on a stone
Most of them men under the grave years before I was born. All of them left brothers and sisters and mothers behind. And most of their family and friends have all had their time
and recently Linkin Park's Hands Held High
Like this war's really just a different brand of war
Like it doesn't cater the rich and abandon the poor
A friend of mine who obsesses over Linkin Park said he hates their new album because..."it's all whining"
I second the 'meh' generation name calling.
posted by M Edward at 12:15 AM on August 30, 2007
Well I for one applaud Brown. The attacks in the middle-east by the US and UK armies in the service of their cynicial, mendacious and deeply corrupt governments, and the unwarranted, vicious brutality of the Israeli army and the pathological inhumanity of the Israeli government, are all disgusting. Of course the lyrics are simplified, Armitage Shanks, what would you expect? - but the anger is justified.
posted by mokey at 12:32 AM on August 30, 2007
posted by mokey at 12:32 AM on August 30, 2007
Machine Head - Clenching the Fist of Dissent
Lyric sample:
So how do they sleep?
While our mothers weep
They’re selling our souls
And our blood for oil
Machine Head - A Farewell to Arms
Lyric Sample:
War hawks and senators
they sit tight, so trite
Never their sons will know
what it's like to fight
But soldiers are dead
And children have bled
And the silence is numb
What have we become?
System of a Down - BYOB
Lyric Sample:
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?
Corrosion of Conformity - Infinite War
Lyric Sample:
Imperial hubris
Unholy oxymoron
Inifinite contradiction
Become the enemy to defeat yourself
There are quite a few if you know where to look.
posted by knapah at 1:11 AM on August 30, 2007
Lyric sample:
So how do they sleep?
While our mothers weep
They’re selling our souls
And our blood for oil
Machine Head - A Farewell to Arms
Lyric Sample:
War hawks and senators
they sit tight, so trite
Never their sons will know
what it's like to fight
But soldiers are dead
And children have bled
And the silence is numb
What have we become?
System of a Down - BYOB
Lyric Sample:
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?
Why don't presidents fight the war?
Why do they always send the poor?
Corrosion of Conformity - Infinite War
Lyric Sample:
Imperial hubris
Unholy oxymoron
Inifinite contradiction
Become the enemy to defeat yourself
There are quite a few if you know where to look.
posted by knapah at 1:11 AM on August 30, 2007
About her "America the Blues," Alicia Bay Laurel wrote:This is a song about speaking truth to power—not only to despots, but to our own collective power. The operative lyric here is VOTE. If everyone who could vote actually did vote, we could elect representatives who would work with us to reverse the vast environmental, public health, diplomatic, and human rights problems we earth-dwellers face, and make this a sustainable, joyful world for all who live in it, now and in the future.
Then she turned Nels Cline loose on the solo. Yow!
posted by Scram at 3:13 AM on August 30, 2007
Then she turned Nels Cline loose on the solo. Yow!
posted by Scram at 3:13 AM on August 30, 2007
Note this: how much protesting taking place, physically? next to nothing.
You're quite wrong about that. The runup to the Iraq war saw worldwide protest on a scale never seen before.
posted by srboisvert at 6:33 AM on August 30, 2007
You're quite wrong about that. The runup to the Iraq war saw worldwide protest on a scale never seen before.
posted by srboisvert at 6:33 AM on August 30, 2007
That's true, srboisvert - what amazed me was the lack of news coverage of protests. Shouldn't have, but it did.
posted by agregoli at 7:00 AM on August 30, 2007
posted by agregoli at 7:00 AM on August 30, 2007
Everlast, Mobb Deep, The Alchemist, Mack 10, WC, Evidence, Defari, KRS-One, and B-Real as the S.T.O.P. Movement put out a "Dear Mr. President" in 04 (?). You can download it from its producer at http://www.fredwreck.com/stop.html
anyhow good for King Monkey, I'm glad he still wants to make music that matters (whether it does or not is fine for debate but I'm glad he tries)
posted by 8 Bit at 8:06 AM on August 30, 2007
anyhow good for King Monkey, I'm glad he still wants to make music that matters (whether it does or not is fine for debate but I'm glad he tries)
posted by 8 Bit at 8:06 AM on August 30, 2007
By the way, what rhymes with "Armageddon"?
posted by Optamystic
"get the green, black, and red in," if you're Chuck D.
posted by COBRA! at 8:14 AM on August 30, 2007
posted by Optamystic
"get the green, black, and red in," if you're Chuck D.
posted by COBRA! at 8:14 AM on August 30, 2007
cunts are still running the world ?
posted by silence at 12:53 AM on August 30 [+] [!]
I love you, Jarvis.
posted by thivaia at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2007
posted by silence at 12:53 AM on August 30 [+] [!]
I love you, Jarvis.
posted by thivaia at 8:16 AM on August 30, 2007
I am happy that the protest song genre isn't all that popular. Why? Look at this thread. These are some of the shittiest, most brain-dead stupid lyrics since Haddaway.
posted by nasreddin at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2007
posted by nasreddin at 3:41 PM on August 30, 2007
Fuck the Arcade Fire (Neon Bible at least). Has nobody been listening to John Vanderslice?!
posted by ludwig_van at 8:44 PM on August 30, 2007
posted by ludwig_van at 8:44 PM on August 30, 2007
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
A "stoneroses" tag would be splendid.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:52 PM on August 29, 2007