O-BA-MA
February 29, 2008 9:25 AM Subscribe
will.i.am is on a roll. It is hard to top his YES WE CAN video inspired by Barack Obama, but I think he comes pretty close in his just released WE ARE THE ONES video.
If this has already been linked, I apologize... I looked but could not find it!
If this has already been linked, I apologize... I looked but could not find it!
I loved Yes We Can and I prefer Obama over Clinton, to say nothing of McCain, but I found this one extremely creepy. The disembodied chanting made it sounds like an old tape from WWII.
posted by DU at 9:32 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 9:32 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just seems to strike the wrong note for me, It makes me cringe
posted by Rubbstone at 9:36 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Rubbstone at 9:36 AM on February 29, 2008
will.i.am should have been happy with his first Obama video. You know, the one that didn't suck.
posted by chrisamiller at 9:38 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by chrisamiller at 9:38 AM on February 29, 2008
This is the only force that will defeat him.
posted by sfts2 at 9:43 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by sfts2 at 9:43 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
will.i.am's comment on his video (as per 'About this Video' at the YouTube page:
people say Obama's words are just words...posted by ericb at 9:43 AM on February 29, 2008 [2 favorites]
but...
when was the last time "words" weren't important...???...
when was the last time a great leader didn't use words to lead...??...
when was the last time a person didn't use words to describe how they felt...?...
when was the last time "words" weren't empowering...?...
and we can all recall the last time "words" were used to divide us and install fear...
Bush used words to fear us into voting for him the second time around...
terror this...
terror that...
nuclear here...
weapons of mass destruction there...
and those words effected a lot of people's choices...
"enough is enough"...
let's rebuild...
let's change ourselves...
let's allow positivity to guide us...
let's take action....
let's activate our passion...
we are Americans....
and this is the first time in forever that someone running for president represents "US"...
some say this is all excitement...
I call it "proud to be an American"...
some say this whole Obama movement is "cult like"...
well...
if it comes across cult like...
then...
the cult is called America...
the Obama movement is connecting America.
and it has made "US" realize our importance...
the youth is excited and activated...
adults are passionate and motivated...
the elderly are proud to know the country they built is in safe hands...
we are one...
for too long politics has been corrupt...
separate from the American people...
with agendas that go against what the American people "need"...
education...
health...
safety...
jobs
etc...
politicians have spoken a different language...
making it so the youth and poor people feel as if voting was only for the wealthy and old people...
making "US" feel as if "we" had no voice...
making "US" feel powerless...
making it feel like if "we" did vote it wouldn't change anything...
but wait...
that did happen...
some of us voted, and it didn't change anything...
we were in the dark...
we had no voice...
we were powerless...
because America was not a united America...
and "they" spoke a different language...
and they had an agenda different from our well being...
correct me if I'm wrong... or speak up if I'm missing something...
we want education, health, safety, and good jobs...right???...
oh yeah...
and "a healthy planet to live on"...
but here we are...
in a war... poor education... poor health programs... the dollar is down... the planet, polluted...
the rich, richer... and the poor, struggling...
with sky high gas prices to top it all off...
and now even the rich aren't really rich internationally because our dollar is has fallen so far down...
in our slumber... a very small few got really rich...
because when you're sleeping...
"it's hard to change agendas"...
we know what happened in 2000 and 2004...
but in 2008...
it's different...
we are awake...
and there is a movement...
and "it's hard to change a movement"...
last time "we" didn't have a movement...
America wasn't united...
and now "United and "Standing"...for something...
we know the power of "US"...
and we have a person who represents the "U.S."...
"US"...
"we are the ones we've been waiting for"...
I'm proud to be an American...
What chrisamiller said, this is more of just a generic chant with prettyHollywoodpeople.
posted by cavalier at 9:46 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by cavalier at 9:46 AM on February 29, 2008
Yeah, this one was kinda weak. I did get seduced onto the Coup's video for "we are the ones", which offered a nice contrast. I had never heard that song. Boots is so cool. So that was kind of a nice thing that happened from seeing this video.
This video - needs more Obama, less Macy Jamal Alba.
Although damn, Regina King looks like she's been working out for Judgment Day, doesn't she? Flex, gina!
posted by cashman at 9:52 AM on February 29, 2008
This video - needs more Obama, less Macy Jamal Alba.
Although damn, Regina King looks like she's been working out for Judgment Day, doesn't she? Flex, gina!
posted by cashman at 9:52 AM on February 29, 2008
What everyone else said. The chanting of O-BA-MA as opposed to something more message-oriented like YES-WE-CAN, combined with the giant socialist realist painting of Obama, made this more about the man than what the man can potentially do. Great ammo for the Hillarites who claim Obama voters are a bunch of dead-eyed cult drones.
posted by hifiparasol at 9:57 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by hifiparasol at 9:57 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
I think it accomplishes what it sets out to do, will get linked to hell and back, and that it targets latino voters in an effective, timely nanner.
Will it have the same depth of appeal as the original? No. But will it give the Obama camp a noticeable boost in spirits in the final few days leading up to Texas and Ohio? Yes.
posted by markkraft at 9:58 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Will it have the same depth of appeal as the original? No. But will it give the Obama camp a noticeable boost in spirits in the final few days leading up to Texas and Ohio? Yes.
posted by markkraft at 9:58 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ick. I only watched half of the first one but christ did it suck balls. I generally find Obama's speeches empowering and uplifting but that song made me gag.
The good news is that Do They Know it's Christmas and We Are the World just moved one step up from the bottom of Dobbsy's List of the Worst Songs Ever.
posted by dobbs at 9:59 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
The good news is that Do They Know it's Christmas and We Are the World just moved one step up from the bottom of Dobbsy's List of the Worst Songs Ever.
posted by dobbs at 9:59 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why would somebody release this video after all the "cult of personality" business? There's nothing new or special here. Having people simply say "I want X" over rhythmic chanting of "O-BA-MA"... it's just terrifying.
And why couldn't they do a better job on the sound mixing?
cashman: The Coup's MySpace page has several imbedded videos, although they look to all be on Youtube anyway.
posted by dsword at 10:00 AM on February 29, 2008
And why couldn't they do a better job on the sound mixing?
cashman: The Coup's MySpace page has several imbedded videos, although they look to all be on Youtube anyway.
posted by dsword at 10:00 AM on February 29, 2008
What is the world record for projectile vomiting?
posted by Brian B. at 10:01 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Brian B. at 10:01 AM on February 29, 2008
Suddenly, I feel that no, we can't.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:07 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:07 AM on February 29, 2008
I heard if you say his name 100 times within the span of 3 minutes, he disappears from the world without a trace.
posted by naju at 10:11 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by naju at 10:11 AM on February 29, 2008
You know who else had a cult of personality?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:11 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:11 AM on February 29, 2008
If you create 500 posts about Obama in the Blue, he'll disable his campaign.
posted by dw at 10:14 AM on February 29, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by dw at 10:14 AM on February 29, 2008 [2 favorites]
I'm still waiting for 'Yes I Can Has' starring the Lolcats.
Someone please make it. Please!
posted by Alison at 10:15 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
Someone please make it. Please!
posted by Alison at 10:15 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
It's actually kind of sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments. If I wanted that kind of crap, I'd be reading Gawker.
There are over 9K people who have seen the video thus far on youtube, and it's polling at over 4 stars. I don't know what that says, exactly, other than the fact that the video was obviously not for many of the commenters here -- but is obviously very effective with a large amount of its general audience.
posted by markkraft at 10:16 AM on February 29, 2008
There are over 9K people who have seen the video thus far on youtube, and it's polling at over 4 stars. I don't know what that says, exactly, other than the fact that the video was obviously not for many of the commenters here -- but is obviously very effective with a large amount of its general audience.
posted by markkraft at 10:16 AM on February 29, 2008
The first video was Ghostbusters. This is Ghostbusters II, with Jessica Alba as Viggo the Carpathian.
posted by hifiparasol at 10:18 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by hifiparasol at 10:18 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
"You know who else had a cult of personality?"
Kennedy? FDR? George Washington?!!
posted by markkraft at 10:18 AM on February 29, 2008
Kennedy? FDR? George Washington?!!
posted by markkraft at 10:18 AM on February 29, 2008
It's actually kind of sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments. If I wanted that kind of crap, I'd be reading Gawker.
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:21 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Let a hundred flowers bloom, let a hundred schools of thought contend.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:21 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
There are over 9K people who have seen the video thus far on youtube, and it's polling at over 4 stars.
That's one hell of an argument.
posted by dobbs at 10:23 AM on February 29, 2008 [22 favorites]
That's one hell of an argument.
posted by dobbs at 10:23 AM on February 29, 2008 [22 favorites]
Really didn't like this one, frankly. The first one was so inspiring -- Obama speaking about his hopes for the future, and the people in it singing about that. Hope, change, justice, repairing the world.
But this one... it's just a bunch of people clamoring for Obama. Not Obama's ideals or his promises or his platform, but the man himself. It's pretty off-putting.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
But this one... it's just a bunch of people clamoring for Obama. Not Obama's ideals or his promises or his platform, but the man himself. It's pretty off-putting.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
Wow that video is just embarrassing. Say what you will about Bush, but I've never felt that he's insulted my intelligence to the degree that the Obama campaign and its supporters do. Gag me with a toothbrush.
posted by 1 at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by 1 at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
I'm still waiting for 'Yes I Can Has' starring the Lolcats.
Someone please make it. Please!
Done.
posted by dw at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
Someone please make it. Please!
Done.
posted by dw at 10:24 AM on February 29, 2008
Not good.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:25 AM on February 29, 2008
If I wanted that kind of crap, I'd be reading Gawker.
Mark, I don't think I need to remind you that MetaFilter is replete with Obama fans. I suspect the general level of snark aimed at this video comes from the fear that something so goofy, which touches on a slew of right-wing talking points (liberal Hollywood is vapidly idealistic, the Mexicans are coming to take your country away, Obama supporters are nothing but cultist zombies who drank the Kool-Aid, yada yada), will do more harm than good in the end.
If it has a positive effect and helps to get Obama into the White House, that'll be awesome.
posted by hifiparasol at 10:25 AM on February 29, 2008
Mark, I don't think I need to remind you that MetaFilter is replete with Obama fans. I suspect the general level of snark aimed at this video comes from the fear that something so goofy, which touches on a slew of right-wing talking points (liberal Hollywood is vapidly idealistic, the Mexicans are coming to take your country away, Obama supporters are nothing but cultist zombies who drank the Kool-Aid, yada yada), will do more harm than good in the end.
If it has a positive effect and helps to get Obama into the White House, that'll be awesome.
posted by hifiparasol at 10:25 AM on February 29, 2008
That's one hell of an argument .
Well allow me to retort.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:29 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well allow me to retort.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:29 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
If I see any more Obama posts on Mefi, I'm voting Mickey.
posted by Raoul de Noget at 10:30 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Raoul de Noget at 10:30 AM on February 29, 2008
It's nice to see John Leguizamo getting work. I say that as an Obama supporter.
posted by boo_radley at 10:32 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by boo_radley at 10:32 AM on February 29, 2008
I thought that the inclusion of Latino celebrities seemed helpful. He's polling pretty badly there, and anything can help it out.
I don't get the snark here. I liked it.
posted by MythMaker at 10:33 AM on February 29, 2008
I don't get the snark here. I liked it.
posted by MythMaker at 10:33 AM on February 29, 2008
Obama is like Phish or the Grateful Dead. I like the substance alright, but ye gods, the fanbois. Can't stand 'em.
posted by echo target at 10:33 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by echo target at 10:33 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
It is hard to top his YES WE CAN video
I'd argue, in all sincerity, that "Let's get retarded" is the high point of will.i.am's musical career, and furthermore would be the high point of any given individual's—past, present, or future—career in any field. It may well be the greatest single human achievement ever.
posted by carsonb at 10:34 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd argue, in all sincerity, that "Let's get retarded" is the high point of will.i.am's musical career, and furthermore would be the high point of any given individual's—past, present, or future—career in any field. It may well be the greatest single human achievement ever.
posted by carsonb at 10:34 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's actually kind of sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments. If I wanted that kind of crap, I'd be reading Gawker.
And if I wanted self-parody I would watch campaign videos from Obama supporters.
posted by Brian B. at 10:36 AM on February 29, 2008
And if I wanted self-parody I would watch campaign videos from Obama supporters.
posted by Brian B. at 10:36 AM on February 29, 2008
People mindlessly chanting "Obama"? It's creepy, not inspiring.
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by Nelson at 10:38 AM on February 29, 2008
Mean while Hillary and McCain seem to have the same line of attack.
posted by humanfont at 10:40 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by humanfont at 10:40 AM on February 29, 2008
JESSIKA ALBA PLZ TELL ME UR POSITION ON NAFTA I NED 2 NO
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:45 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:45 AM on February 29, 2008 [3 favorites]
It's time for a new direction in America...
posted by regicide is good for you at 10:45 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by regicide is good for you at 10:45 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Say what you will about Bush, but I've never felt that he's insulted my intelligence
That's because he's dumber than you. And pretty much everybody else. And some household cleaning supplies.
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on February 29, 2008
That's because he's dumber than you. And pretty much everybody else. And some household cleaning supplies.
posted by cashman at 10:47 AM on February 29, 2008
I just voted for Obama this morning, and I think both will.i.am videos are lousy. I did like the parody video No, You Can't featuring the words of John McCain, however.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:54 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:54 AM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
That Hillary ad is effed up. It has all the coded signals of GOP fearmongering that liberals treat with revulsion. What's her campaign thinking?
posted by naju at 10:58 AM on February 29, 2008
posted by naju at 10:58 AM on February 29, 2008
Yeah, I found it kind of icky as well. A bunch of people chanting "Obama" It really does send off "Cult" vibes. And I am definitely an Obama supporter but I didn't like this. To me, Obama is more like a normal person, in contrast to most other politicians who seem to be crazy, delusional, or completly dishonest. It isn't like Obama is a better or far more capable person then most of the people I know, but that all the other choices are awful.
It would have been a lot better if he'd just left the "yes we can" chanting in, and it would have tied in more nicely with his other video.
Say what you will about Bush, but I've never felt that he's insulted my intelligence to the degree that...
Are you living on a different planet? Bush's entire presidency has been a giant insult to the intelligence of all of us.
And speaking of appeals to Hispanics, check out this vid from a Texas grass roots group.
posted by delmoi at 10:58 AM on February 29, 2008
It would have been a lot better if he'd just left the "yes we can" chanting in, and it would have tied in more nicely with his other video.
Say what you will about Bush, but I've never felt that he's insulted my intelligence to the degree that...
Are you living on a different planet? Bush's entire presidency has been a giant insult to the intelligence of all of us.
And speaking of appeals to Hispanics, check out this vid from a Texas grass roots group.
posted by delmoi at 10:58 AM on February 29, 2008
I did like the parody video No, You Can't featuring the words of John McCain, however.
That is great.
posted by Mr_Zero at 11:00 AM on February 29, 2008
That is great.
posted by Mr_Zero at 11:00 AM on February 29, 2008
That Hillary ad is effed up. It has all the coded signals of GOP fearmongering that liberals treat with revulsion. What's her campaign thinking?
Maybe they're polling shows that voters who don't like fearmongering are already voting for Obama (since he has been complaining about the use of fear in elections). But mostly I think they are in panic.
posted by delmoi at 11:02 AM on February 29, 2008
Maybe they're polling shows that voters who don't like fearmongering are already voting for Obama (since he has been complaining about the use of fear in elections). But mostly I think they are in panic.
posted by delmoi at 11:02 AM on February 29, 2008
Not nearly as snazzy as Hillary4U&Me .
What's with the early Jackson 5 ripoff? Hillary needed to stay true to her woman's roots with a couple of verses of Stand by your Man. Or go all out to try and seduce the MeFi constituency with a cross between 70's prog rock and 80's US punk.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:12 AM on February 29, 2008
What's with the early Jackson 5 ripoff? Hillary needed to stay true to her woman's roots with a couple of verses of Stand by your Man. Or go all out to try and seduce the MeFi constituency with a cross between 70's prog rock and 80's US punk.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:12 AM on February 29, 2008
I don't get the snark here. I liked it.
I did, too. I liked the variety of statements - the "end the war" and "bring our country new respect." The fact that these videos are being made tells me that Obama is connecting in a way that this country desperately needs now - he's inspiring young people to vote.
I mean, you remember the John Kerry music video? Oh, right - there wasn't one.
posted by tizzie at 11:37 AM on February 29, 2008
I did, too. I liked the variety of statements - the "end the war" and "bring our country new respect." The fact that these videos are being made tells me that Obama is connecting in a way that this country desperately needs now - he's inspiring young people to vote.
I mean, you remember the John Kerry music video? Oh, right - there wasn't one.
posted by tizzie at 11:37 AM on February 29, 2008
Maybe they're polling shows that voters who don't like fearmongering are already voting for Obama (since he has been complaining about the use of fear in elections). But mostly I think they are in panic.
After the last 4 years, I would rather vote for revenge than mere change. With 10% of registered Republicans voting for Obama in some states, and longtime liberals sticking with Hillary, I think what we're seeing here among disillusioned moderates is a predictable conversion to liberalism by way of Obama's charisma, an emotionally safe place for some. Emotionalism is the only way they know how to change sides.
posted by Brian B. at 11:42 AM on February 29, 2008
After the last 4 years, I would rather vote for revenge than mere change. With 10% of registered Republicans voting for Obama in some states, and longtime liberals sticking with Hillary, I think what we're seeing here among disillusioned moderates is a predictable conversion to liberalism by way of Obama's charisma, an emotionally safe place for some. Emotionalism is the only way they know how to change sides.
posted by Brian B. at 11:42 AM on February 29, 2008
After the last 4 years, I would rather vote for revenge than mere change. With 10% of registered Republicans voting for Obama in some states, and longtime liberals sticking with Hillary
Some longtime liberals, perhaps. But pretty much all of the liberal, college educated 'elites' are voting for Obama. It's the poor and working classes who make up much of Hillary's support.
Anyway, the idea that a real liberal would vote for someone who authorized the war in Iraq if they had the choice not too is just ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 11:51 AM on February 29, 2008
Some longtime liberals, perhaps. But pretty much all of the liberal, college educated 'elites' are voting for Obama. It's the poor and working classes who make up much of Hillary's support.
Anyway, the idea that a real liberal would vote for someone who authorized the war in Iraq if they had the choice not too is just ridiculous.
posted by delmoi at 11:51 AM on February 29, 2008
Jesus Christ you guys. The knee-jerk cynicism here has reached dysfunctional proportions.
When was the last time so many people, people normally utterly disenfranchised by or with the system, were excited and moved by a presidential candidate? A candidate that actually stood a chance to WIN. Somebody who is actually positive and not fear mongering. Lighten the fuck up.
posted by tkchrist at 12:11 PM on February 29, 2008
When was the last time so many people, people normally utterly disenfranchised by or with the system, were excited and moved by a presidential candidate? A candidate that actually stood a chance to WIN. Somebody who is actually positive and not fear mongering. Lighten the fuck up.
posted by tkchrist at 12:11 PM on February 29, 2008
A video for an inspiring candidate can still be shitty, is a big part of this. Calling the video shitty is not slagging the Obama, and is not a refutation of the idea that people are feeling excited or moved by him.
posted by cortex at 12:44 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by cortex at 12:44 PM on February 29, 2008
This video's terrible. It plays to the worst stereotypes about Obama supporters. "Yes We Can" worked because it integrated the inspiring, soaring rhetoric of Obama's speeches: "It was a creed written into the founding documents that determined the destiny of a nation--yes, we can."
This video has Jessica Alba saying things like "I would like to see, um, a cleaner earth? For my child?" Weak. And the "O BAM A! O BAM A! O BAM A!" chanting isn't going to do much to dispel the notion that we're a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists.
posted by EarBucket at 12:56 PM on February 29, 2008
This video has Jessica Alba saying things like "I would like to see, um, a cleaner earth? For my child?" Weak. And the "O BAM A! O BAM A! O BAM A!" chanting isn't going to do much to dispel the notion that we're a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists.
posted by EarBucket at 12:56 PM on February 29, 2008
When was the last time so many people, people normally utterly disenfranchised by or with the system, were excited and moved by a presidential candidate?
2004?
posted by Nelson at 1:37 PM on February 29, 2008
2004?
posted by Nelson at 1:37 PM on February 29, 2008
tkchrist was talking about people able to win the democratic primary. (I think Dean would have done better against GW Then Kerry in the general)
posted by delmoi at 1:42 PM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 1:42 PM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't get the new Hillary ad--it wants to be a scare ad, but it doesn't really have the courage of its convictions. The music, for instance, is at odds with the tone of the narrator--my ears were primed for ominous minor chords that never arrived.
In the final seconds, though, the music comes within a note of quoting Jerry Goldsmith's score for Patton. Also--Hillary in glasses! People who wear glasses are smart. I'll bet you'll never catch Barack Obama wearing glasses. That's because his eyes have not been ruined by decades of parsing over the fine print of the documents that help our nation run--why, coincidentally, that's just what she was doing when the Batphone rang!
So basically, the takeaway point is that Hillary Clinton is a cross between George Patton, and a nerd. I guess?
posted by Prospero at 1:59 PM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
In the final seconds, though, the music comes within a note of quoting Jerry Goldsmith's score for Patton. Also--Hillary in glasses! People who wear glasses are smart. I'll bet you'll never catch Barack Obama wearing glasses. That's because his eyes have not been ruined by decades of parsing over the fine print of the documents that help our nation run--why, coincidentally, that's just what she was doing when the Batphone rang!
So basically, the takeaway point is that Hillary Clinton is a cross between George Patton, and a nerd. I guess?
posted by Prospero at 1:59 PM on February 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
Though no matter how you feel about Clinton or her ads, this recipe for snickerdoodles on her website is something I can get behind.
posted by Prospero at 2:02 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by Prospero at 2:02 PM on February 29, 2008
Dean excited *some* Americans, but so many?
No. Not even close. Obama could go "yaarrgh!" and still win this thing.
(Only, of course, he won't.)
posted by markkraft at 2:36 PM on February 29, 2008
No. Not even close. Obama could go "yaarrgh!" and still win this thing.
(Only, of course, he won't.)
posted by markkraft at 2:36 PM on February 29, 2008
Calling the video shitty is not slagging the Obama, and is not a refutation of the idea that people are feeling excited or moved by him.
If that's what most people here were doing. But it's not. IE " a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists." And many more comments like that.
Jesus. People can't win.
On one hand MeFites bitch and complain about how uninvolved and apathetic the US liberal electorate is... and then when they finally express enthusiasm (in a fairly positive if somewhat trite fashion) it's not to the MeFite Taste Police specifications. And thus they are cultists or "insulting" to our so elevated intelligence.
Cynical crap.
posted by tkchrist at 2:37 PM on February 29, 2008
If that's what most people here were doing. But it's not. IE " a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists." And many more comments like that.
Jesus. People can't win.
On one hand MeFites bitch and complain about how uninvolved and apathetic the US liberal electorate is... and then when they finally express enthusiasm (in a fairly positive if somewhat trite fashion) it's not to the MeFite Taste Police specifications. And thus they are cultists or "insulting" to our so elevated intelligence.
Cynical crap.
posted by tkchrist at 2:37 PM on February 29, 2008
Sure, Hillary Clinton will give you a recipe for snickerdoodles... but will she bake them herself?!
What does Hillary have against women who bake cookies? I *LIKE* cookies! My Mom baked me cookies!
posted by markkraft at 2:40 PM on February 29, 2008
What does Hillary have against women who bake cookies? I *LIKE* cookies! My Mom baked me cookies!
posted by markkraft at 2:40 PM on February 29, 2008
If that's what most people here were doing. But it's not. IE " a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists." And many more comments like that.
Where? Where did this happen? I just read back through the whole thread and saw a lot of people expressing specific support for Obama while complaining about the video; some folks complaining about the potential negative perception of Obama supporters this'd imply (see hifiparasol's comment—and followup); a number of people making jokes or riffing on injokes; some neutral strategy discussion; and, well, this and this, both of which came form the same user and well after markkraft's first OMG CYNICISM WTF comment.
I genuinely don't see the thread full of bitter, cynical dismissals of Obama or his supporters, except insofar as "his supporters" means the handful of people responsible for this (in my humble) crap-ass attempt at making lightning strike twice.
posted by cortex at 2:51 PM on February 29, 2008
Where? Where did this happen? I just read back through the whole thread and saw a lot of people expressing specific support for Obama while complaining about the video; some folks complaining about the potential negative perception of Obama supporters this'd imply (see hifiparasol's comment—and followup); a number of people making jokes or riffing on injokes; some neutral strategy discussion; and, well, this and this, both of which came form the same user and well after markkraft's first OMG CYNICISM WTF comment.
I genuinely don't see the thread full of bitter, cynical dismissals of Obama or his supporters, except insofar as "his supporters" means the handful of people responsible for this (in my humble) crap-ass attempt at making lightning strike twice.
posted by cortex at 2:51 PM on February 29, 2008
(And this. Commenting is hard, let's go shopping, etc.)
posted by cortex at 2:54 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by cortex at 2:54 PM on February 29, 2008
It's ok, tkchrist... The great masses are obviously supposed to argue intellectually for what they want, rather than say "peace", a "clean earth", "an end to fear", or anything as naive as that.
I mean, lving without war and fear, in a healthy, safe environment? That's hopeless, right?! We shouldn't even try.
Is it surprising at all that so many of the "liberals" around here took the time to kiss some fetid old Bill Buckley butt when they had the chance?
Now *there* was a great leader and a man of the people...
posted by markkraft at 2:57 PM on February 29, 2008
I mean, lving without war and fear, in a healthy, safe environment? That's hopeless, right?! We shouldn't even try.
Is it surprising at all that so many of the "liberals" around here took the time to kiss some fetid old Bill Buckley butt when they had the chance?
Now *there* was a great leader and a man of the people...
posted by markkraft at 2:57 PM on February 29, 2008
"IE " a bunch of Kool-Aid-chugging cultists." And many more comments like that."
Where? Where did this happen?
*coff*
*coff, coff*
Screw it... this could take too long.
*coff*
posted by markkraft at 3:05 PM on February 29, 2008
Where? Where did this happen?
*coff*
*coff, coff*
Screw it... this could take too long.
*coff*
posted by markkraft at 3:05 PM on February 29, 2008
By the way, I understand why so many of you are cynical. I do.
I also think you're wrong for being so cynical, however.
But do *you* understand what you're missing when none of your leaders are worth cheering for?!
Bobby Kennedy was obvously a cult leader and a hope peddler, and your parents probably drank the koolade, right?!
posted by markkraft at 3:14 PM on February 29, 2008
I also think you're wrong for being so cynical, however.
But do *you* understand what you're missing when none of your leaders are worth cheering for?!
Bobby Kennedy was obvously a cult leader and a hope peddler, and your parents probably drank the koolade, right?!
posted by markkraft at 3:14 PM on February 29, 2008
Granted on the first one; missed that.
The second one doesn't seem to have a goddam thing to say about Obama's candidacy, unless you're dedicated to the perception that the comment isn't about the actual purported object of this thread rather than what you want to be upset about it being about.
The third one is from the same guy who made two other obnoxious quotes that I already linked, so that doesn't support the idea that this is a crowd of kool-aid tauntin' cynics either.
The fourth one is broken. And it didn't take me all that long to read through the thread and put together links, so leaving at that feels like a bit of a cop-out, frankly.
This is all in a thread that has 73 comments at the moment; by my quick count, there's more comments from you alone in here than there are from people who appear to be attacking Obama's candidacy or supporters combined.
posted by cortex at 3:19 PM on February 29, 2008
The second one doesn't seem to have a goddam thing to say about Obama's candidacy, unless you're dedicated to the perception that the comment isn't about the actual purported object of this thread rather than what you want to be upset about it being about.
The third one is from the same guy who made two other obnoxious quotes that I already linked, so that doesn't support the idea that this is a crowd of kool-aid tauntin' cynics either.
The fourth one is broken. And it didn't take me all that long to read through the thread and put together links, so leaving at that feels like a bit of a cop-out, frankly.
This is all in a thread that has 73 comments at the moment; by my quick count, there's more comments from you alone in here than there are from people who appear to be attacking Obama's candidacy or supporters combined.
posted by cortex at 3:19 PM on February 29, 2008
I genuinely don't see the thread full of bitter, cynical dismissals of Obama or his supporters
I never said bitter.
But there is plenty of cynicism. You must be on happy juice or I am somehow specially equipped. I see it. It's couched in the usual MeFi superiority complex and taste war nonsense. But whatever. Carry on.
posted by tkchrist at 3:23 PM on February 29, 2008
I never said bitter.
But there is plenty of cynicism. You must be on happy juice or I am somehow specially equipped. I see it. It's couched in the usual MeFi superiority complex and taste war nonsense. But whatever. Carry on.
posted by tkchrist at 3:23 PM on February 29, 2008
Cortex, note what he also said:
"And many more comments like that".
My point being is that the general tone in most of the comments I am seeing is that of a widespread cynicism that crosses all political boundaries.
On a purely practical level, those on the left have definite reason for hope. For instance, in February, the two leading Democrats outraised the Republicans by about ten-to-one.
If they can muster *some* degree of unity, it's not just John McCain that's dead meat. It's the entire Republican Party, with the potential for a landslide Democratic victory that sweeps an overwhelming amount of Democrats nationwide into power.
So, if people feel moved to cheer for their leaders as they did in the past, all I ask is that we stop worrying about what fear tactics the cynics might adopt.
The simple fact is, the politics of fear and cynicism are losing, bigtime. The media is clearly getting the message, even if many others haven't yet.
posted by markkraft at 3:31 PM on February 29, 2008
"And many more comments like that".
My point being is that the general tone in most of the comments I am seeing is that of a widespread cynicism that crosses all political boundaries.
On a purely practical level, those on the left have definite reason for hope. For instance, in February, the two leading Democrats outraised the Republicans by about ten-to-one.
If they can muster *some* degree of unity, it's not just John McCain that's dead meat. It's the entire Republican Party, with the potential for a landslide Democratic victory that sweeps an overwhelming amount of Democrats nationwide into power.
So, if people feel moved to cheer for their leaders as they did in the past, all I ask is that we stop worrying about what fear tactics the cynics might adopt.
The simple fact is, the politics of fear and cynicism are losing, bigtime. The media is clearly getting the message, even if many others haven't yet.
posted by markkraft at 3:31 PM on February 29, 2008
I think I'm just not on unrealistic-expectation juice. As far as there is general cynicism in this thread, it seems like a weird thing to complain about given that it's at pretty normal background-radiation levels for mefi. I can understand being bothered by other people not showing the enthusiasm you might personally feel for this bit of unofficial campaign media, but I don't think there's anything surprising or unusual about the reaction here.
If, on the other hand, the idea is that there's something notably or unusually cynical about the thread, then no: I don't see it. If the idea is that there's something specifically anti-Obama in the thread, again, don't see it.
I don't mean to make a great big thing of it, but both you and markkraft seem to be attacking the thread and the users in it both aggressively and generically for, as far as I can tell, failing to like this specific video sufficiently. If your beef is with the few specific people knocking something beyond the video, have at it, but the sweeping "sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments" (his) and "The knee-jerk cynicism here has reached dysfunctional proportions." (yours) language seems pretty damned broad and dismissive in a way that doesn't match, at all, with what I'm seeing in the thread in general.
posted by cortex at 3:43 PM on February 29, 2008
If, on the other hand, the idea is that there's something notably or unusually cynical about the thread, then no: I don't see it. If the idea is that there's something specifically anti-Obama in the thread, again, don't see it.
I don't mean to make a great big thing of it, but both you and markkraft seem to be attacking the thread and the users in it both aggressively and generically for, as far as I can tell, failing to like this specific video sufficiently. If your beef is with the few specific people knocking something beyond the video, have at it, but the sweeping "sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments" (his) and "The knee-jerk cynicism here has reached dysfunctional proportions." (yours) language seems pretty damned broad and dismissive in a way that doesn't match, at all, with what I'm seeing in the thread in general.
posted by cortex at 3:43 PM on February 29, 2008
For comparison, the (early, video-focused portion of) the original video thread were markedly (though not unanimously) more positive, and the thread in general was more involved. That thread had the advantage of (a) featuring a better, more inspired-feeling video instead of a retread, and (b) not itself being the retread that this is. Even the discussion of cynicism in there was better and less grandstandy.
posted by cortex at 3:50 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by cortex at 3:50 PM on February 29, 2008
It's an Obamination.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:06 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by kirkaracha at 4:06 PM on February 29, 2008
Senator Clinton's ad doesn't follow one of President Clinton's Law of Politics. (Maybe she's a big Matchbox 20 fan.) I liked Senator Obama's response (to Clinton's ad, not Matchbox 20).
posted by kirkaracha at 4:11 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by kirkaracha at 4:11 PM on February 29, 2008
Obama actually has a response ad to the Hillary fear mongering ad.
posted by delmoi at 5:07 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by delmoi at 5:07 PM on February 29, 2008
Wow, Rhaomi, I missed what you had there with that McCain thing. That's a low budget ad, produced at least a month ago, with a script identical to Clinton's current shameful Daisy ad. Except that it's an ad for McCain. Would they really just steal an ad so directly like that?
posted by Nelson at 5:58 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by Nelson at 5:58 PM on February 29, 2008
Videos like this make me wish there were a law forbidding the use of a violins in any song less than 5 minutes long.
posted by gsteff at 6:33 PM on February 29, 2008
posted by gsteff at 6:33 PM on February 29, 2008
And I should probably offer an exemption to anything actually scored for full orchestra.
posted by gsteff at 6:35 PM on February 29, 2008
I wouldn't be surprised if, in time, this one is revealed to be a commission, from the Obama campaign, for will.i.am to create a video that's more Latino-focused. As MythMaker and markcraft mentioned above, Latinos haven't been rallying around Obama nearly as much as they have around Clinton.
In the first video, Latinos were strikingly absent. (Well ... there was the "si, se puede" fist guy). No doubt, will.i.am was mainly pulling in his close friends and associates for the first one, and, whether he has Latino friends or not, they just didn't end up being a part of it. I could see the campaign wanting to use the power of the Yes We Can video to shore up support among younger Latino voters ... hence the presence of Lopez, Luis, and Lautrec.
Yeah. I didn't like this video nearly as much as the first one. I can see why they made it, but ... meh.
posted by Alt F4 at 5:19 AM on March 1, 2008
In the first video, Latinos were strikingly absent. (Well ... there was the "si, se puede" fist guy). No doubt, will.i.am was mainly pulling in his close friends and associates for the first one, and, whether he has Latino friends or not, they just didn't end up being a part of it. I could see the campaign wanting to use the power of the Yes We Can video to shore up support among younger Latino voters ... hence the presence of Lopez, Luis, and Lautrec.
Yeah. I didn't like this video nearly as much as the first one. I can see why they made it, but ... meh.
posted by Alt F4 at 5:19 AM on March 1, 2008
will.i.am wants Obama to win, and he's not clueless, so I think he intentionally created something to respond to that. He no doubt read or heard about the general feedback that the first video, though successful, was largely preaching to the choir... and he brought in Latinos who could increase the diversity of the message in the second video.
So no, I doubt the Obama campaign had anything to do with it, largely because they didn't have to.
posted by markkraft at 5:58 PM on March 1, 2008
So no, I doubt the Obama campaign had anything to do with it, largely because they didn't have to.
posted by markkraft at 5:58 PM on March 1, 2008
"If your beef is with the few specific people knocking something beyond the video, have at it, but the sweeping . . . language seems pretty damned broad and dismissive in a way that doesn't match, at all, with what I'm seeing in the thread in general."
That people are, as a whole, a lot cynical, snarkier, and pessimistic than they should perhaps be?
I don't think that's dismissive. I think that's observable. You can see it in the Bobby Kennedy video. What would the press say today to such scenes if they were taking place today in the Obama campaign?
"Idolatry?" "Worshiping false gods?" "Mass delusion?" "Svengali?"
I think it's naive to think that these ordinary Americans in the late '60s were somehow innocent. Perhaps it would be more accurate that their spirits hadn't been crushed yet.
The '60s and early 70's were a sad, unfortunate lesson that didn't have to be learned, but that was learned by all too many people, over and over again, too many damn times... the lesson is this:
That it's too dangerous to hope, because if you do, you run the risk of having your hope taken away from you.
And I hate to tell you this, but as some of you Howard Dean supporters out there would attest, we're still getting our hopes crushed in a series of assasinations, of sorts. And sometimes, these assasination attempts are very deliberate indeed, usually because it's good for business.
Is it any coincidence that the Bush administration has seen levels of general public cynicism escalate to extreme, rude snarkiness, to the point that any news source not behaving in such a manner isn't "edgy" and "current" enough?
This country is starting to acquire Russian levels of pessimism, as our economy and world "goes down the tubes"... and yet you're accusing me of being "dismissive" of MeFi'tes, because I pointed out that they are behaving in an extremely cynical and hopeless manner? Perhaps it might not have occurred to you, but perhaps our economy, our environment, and our politics reflects that cynical, hopeless nature... and that the first step to fixing the problems we are facing is to have some degree of hope that they can, in fact, be effectively addressed?!
Something tells me that if Obama was a grassroots reformist politician in Russia who was on the verge of a huge upset over Vladamir Putin's handpicked successor, and his supporters were putting hugely popular videos on youtube showing the strength of support, unity, and diversity throughout Russia, all hopeful for change in that country, there isn't a single one of us -- with the possible exception of Postroad -- who wouldn't be moved and optimistic.
If only we could dare to feel the kind of hope and optimism for the future in America, that we would willingly embrace overseas...
posted by markkraft at 6:35 PM on March 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
That people are, as a whole, a lot cynical, snarkier, and pessimistic than they should perhaps be?
I don't think that's dismissive. I think that's observable. You can see it in the Bobby Kennedy video. What would the press say today to such scenes if they were taking place today in the Obama campaign?
"Idolatry?" "Worshiping false gods?" "Mass delusion?" "Svengali?"
I think it's naive to think that these ordinary Americans in the late '60s were somehow innocent. Perhaps it would be more accurate that their spirits hadn't been crushed yet.
The '60s and early 70's were a sad, unfortunate lesson that didn't have to be learned, but that was learned by all too many people, over and over again, too many damn times... the lesson is this:
That it's too dangerous to hope, because if you do, you run the risk of having your hope taken away from you.
And I hate to tell you this, but as some of you Howard Dean supporters out there would attest, we're still getting our hopes crushed in a series of assasinations, of sorts. And sometimes, these assasination attempts are very deliberate indeed, usually because it's good for business.
Is it any coincidence that the Bush administration has seen levels of general public cynicism escalate to extreme, rude snarkiness, to the point that any news source not behaving in such a manner isn't "edgy" and "current" enough?
This country is starting to acquire Russian levels of pessimism, as our economy and world "goes down the tubes"... and yet you're accusing me of being "dismissive" of MeFi'tes, because I pointed out that they are behaving in an extremely cynical and hopeless manner? Perhaps it might not have occurred to you, but perhaps our economy, our environment, and our politics reflects that cynical, hopeless nature... and that the first step to fixing the problems we are facing is to have some degree of hope that they can, in fact, be effectively addressed?!
Something tells me that if Obama was a grassroots reformist politician in Russia who was on the verge of a huge upset over Vladamir Putin's handpicked successor, and his supporters were putting hugely popular videos on youtube showing the strength of support, unity, and diversity throughout Russia, all hopeful for change in that country, there isn't a single one of us -- with the possible exception of Postroad -- who wouldn't be moved and optimistic.
If only we could dare to feel the kind of hope and optimism for the future in America, that we would willingly embrace overseas...
posted by markkraft at 6:35 PM on March 1, 2008 [1 favorite]
pracowity: "It's time for a nude erection in America."
Dammit, pracowity! Once you hear it, you can't stop hearing it.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:20 PM on March 1, 2008
Dammit, pracowity! Once you hear it, you can't stop hearing it.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:20 PM on March 1, 2008
That people are, as a whole, a lot cynical, snarkier, and pessimistic than they should perhaps be?
But there's a difference between saying "I'm disappointed by the prevailing trend in the US of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in political thought" as some sort of comment on actual baseline American political discourse/involvement, and saying "It's actually kind of sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments." The former is at least attempting to comment on some relatively context-free assessment of political thought itself; the latter is trying to prop up the specific context of this thread on this website metafilter as somehow (a) a fair baseline of American political thought and (b) a place where cynicism and snark and pessimism should not be expected.
It bothers me to see a mefi thread about a music video—not even the first mefi thread (of which you were aware and in which you participated) about this specific pop artist's videos on this specific subject—treated as a stump for some dramatic vignette of woe for the state of things. It'd be like a teetotaler wandering into a specific bar for the hundredth time and for some reason that time choosing to express their disappointment at all the drinking and the smoking and the playing of darts: as if somehow, that these things are going on here, as they have every night for years, is somehow a noteworthy and surprising failure of the place, and the patrons deserving of some moralizing dismissal.
Hectoring mefi for not being collectively and unanimously so enthusiastic about Obama's campaign that the userbase suddenly undergoes a massive seachange and ceases being snarky or cynical or pessimistic in the face of even poorly received music videos seems like a really weird, self-absorbed way to interact with the site. Passion and enthusiasm and a desire to see change in this country I can understand, but taking out your frustration on something that doesn't owe you the song and dance you seem to want to see is off the mark.
posted by cortex at 8:54 PM on March 1, 2008
But there's a difference between saying "I'm disappointed by the prevailing trend in the US of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in political thought" as some sort of comment on actual baseline American political discourse/involvement, and saying "It's actually kind of sad to see the level of cynicism, snark, general nastiness, and lack of reason in these comments." The former is at least attempting to comment on some relatively context-free assessment of political thought itself; the latter is trying to prop up the specific context of this thread on this website metafilter as somehow (a) a fair baseline of American political thought and (b) a place where cynicism and snark and pessimism should not be expected.
It bothers me to see a mefi thread about a music video—not even the first mefi thread (of which you were aware and in which you participated) about this specific pop artist's videos on this specific subject—treated as a stump for some dramatic vignette of woe for the state of things. It'd be like a teetotaler wandering into a specific bar for the hundredth time and for some reason that time choosing to express their disappointment at all the drinking and the smoking and the playing of darts: as if somehow, that these things are going on here, as they have every night for years, is somehow a noteworthy and surprising failure of the place, and the patrons deserving of some moralizing dismissal.
Hectoring mefi for not being collectively and unanimously so enthusiastic about Obama's campaign that the userbase suddenly undergoes a massive seachange and ceases being snarky or cynical or pessimistic in the face of even poorly received music videos seems like a really weird, self-absorbed way to interact with the site. Passion and enthusiasm and a desire to see change in this country I can understand, but taking out your frustration on something that doesn't owe you the song and dance you seem to want to see is off the mark.
posted by cortex at 8:54 PM on March 1, 2008
"IF Barack Obama wins in November, we could have not only our first president who is an African-American, but also our first president who is a civil libertarian."
posted by homunculus at 9:50 AM on March 2, 2008
posted by homunculus at 9:50 AM on March 2, 2008
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posted by Postroad at 9:32 AM on February 29, 2008