WAAALT!
June 14, 2008 5:30 AM Subscribe
So you think they'll have any material to gather next season?
posted by brownpau at 5:49 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by brownpau at 5:49 AM on June 14, 2008
I gave up on this show. I just couldn't go on. I lost the plot. Literally.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:56 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:56 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Don't tell me what I can't do!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:03 AM on June 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:03 AM on June 14, 2008 [6 favorites]
Oh man, I just started watching lost from the beginning at my brother's insistance... this is just what I needed.
posted by sarahmelah at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by sarahmelah at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2008
At least he called him by his name more often than not. Frickin' Claire and her "MY BAYBEE!!" drove me bananas.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:52 AM on June 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:52 AM on June 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
You're linking to single, text-only list that stopped updating two years ago? Really? Nothing else interesting you wanted to point out about one of the top-rated shows on television? I hate to be a drag, but this is maybe a weak-ass post.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 9:56 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 9:56 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
There's something that Jack yells at Kate late in the series which I found just as annoying, but I hesitate to type it here for concern I'd spoil things for those of you waiting until now to watch it all on DVD. I'm sure someone after me will be more than willing to spill the beans for you.
But, for the record, if you haven't seen the whole thing yet? You might wanna stop reading this thread. CONSIDER THIS YOUR SPOILER WARNING. I don't wanna hear no whiny crybaby whining that you were ruined for season four DVDs cuz you were reading this thread.
What the heck are you reading this thread for anyway? It's just gonna get more spoilery the further we go into the depths of dialogue that they used over and over again. Why are you even on the Internet if you haven't finished watching Lost yet? Those of us fully indoctrinated into the cult (you heard me) got like NINE MONTHS to rehash it amongst ourselves while we wait for season five. NINE MONTHS! Babies don't take this long to show up! Even babies (well most of them) have the common decency to not make people wait that long for them to show up. J. J. Abrams can haul off and bite my dick. Why can't they just finish the stupid show and have it be done with???
*sung in a british falsetto with a scroonched up face*
"You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!
Acting like you're stupid people
Wearing your 'spensive clothes!
You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!"
posted by ZachsMind at 9:59 AM on June 14, 2008
But, for the record, if you haven't seen the whole thing yet? You might wanna stop reading this thread. CONSIDER THIS YOUR SPOILER WARNING. I don't wanna hear no whiny crybaby whining that you were ruined for season four DVDs cuz you were reading this thread.
What the heck are you reading this thread for anyway? It's just gonna get more spoilery the further we go into the depths of dialogue that they used over and over again. Why are you even on the Internet if you haven't finished watching Lost yet? Those of us fully indoctrinated into the cult (you heard me) got like NINE MONTHS to rehash it amongst ourselves while we wait for season five. NINE MONTHS! Babies don't take this long to show up! Even babies (well most of them) have the common decency to not make people wait that long for them to show up. J. J. Abrams can haul off and bite my dick. Why can't they just finish the stupid show and have it be done with???
*sung in a british falsetto with a scroonched up face*
"You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!
Acting like you're stupid people
Wearing your 'spensive clothes!
You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!
You all, everybody!"
posted by ZachsMind at 9:59 AM on June 14, 2008
I want tallerwalt.com!
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:32 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by DenOfSizer at 10:32 AM on June 14, 2008
What kills me is they have these season long story lines that just go nowhere. What did they do with walt? He was made out to be like the second coming of jesus, then they just wrote him out of the show.
posted by empath at 11:18 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by empath at 11:18 AM on June 14, 2008
Actually, they used a plot device to take him out of the forefront of the show long enough to jump the main timeline ahead a few years and be able to bring him back in the last few seasons. For adults, playing "40 days later" over the course of four years is not a problem. For a rapidly growing child, that presents a bit of a challenge. My impression is that Walt will be very much a part of the show leading up to the grand finale.
posted by Lokheed at 11:49 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by Lokheed at 11:49 AM on June 14, 2008
What kills me is they have these season long story lines that just go nowhere. What did they do with walt? He was made out to be like the second coming of jesus, then they just wrote him out of the show.
Well, to be fair, Jesus has been pretty quiet since He came back, too.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:50 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well, to be fair, Jesus has been pretty quiet since He came back, too.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:50 AM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
schoolgirl report: The thing that reaaaalllyyyy bugged me about Season 4 was Jack and Kate's insistance on calling him "The Baby". HIS NAME IS AARON! CALL HIM AARON! (or whatever weird American/Australian spelling they decided on)
posted by bruzie at 12:03 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by bruzie at 12:03 PM on June 14, 2008
"You're linking to single, text-only list that stopped updating two years ago? Really? Nothing else interesting you wanted to point out about one of the top-rated shows on television? I hate to be a drag, but this is maybe a weak-ass post.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking!"
I found it amusing as a fan of LOST. Oh, and if this post is so "weak-ass", why are you wasting your time commenting on it. I believe that is the beauty of mefi. If something is interesting, comments will generate and so too will discussion. If something is posted and it's generally found to be uninteresting or "weak-ass" as you have put it, it'll fall away on its own. Cheers.
posted by Fizz at 1:35 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by Help, I can't stop talking!"
I found it amusing as a fan of LOST. Oh, and if this post is so "weak-ass", why are you wasting your time commenting on it. I believe that is the beauty of mefi. If something is interesting, comments will generate and so too will discussion. If something is posted and it's generally found to be uninteresting or "weak-ass" as you have put it, it'll fall away on its own. Cheers.
posted by Fizz at 1:35 PM on June 14, 2008
Dizzy: "Put the bong down, Zach."
Ohhh... don't I wish I could blame my behavior on bong hits. Those would actually probably calm me down. AND WHERE'S THE FUN IN THAT!??
posted by ZachsMind at 2:33 PM on June 14, 2008
Ohhh... don't I wish I could blame my behavior on bong hits. Those would actually probably calm me down. AND WHERE'S THE FUN IN THAT!??
posted by ZachsMind at 2:33 PM on June 14, 2008
I love me some Lost, but the character I find most annoying is Kate, by far. Any time she sees some blood, is faced with a tough decision she must make or is even confronted with just a hint of adversity, this supposedly strong willed female character suddenly starts blubbering. "I CAN'T DO IT JACK/SAWYER/WHOEVER, I JUST CAN'T! WAAAAAAH!!!!" No wonder Jack drifted towards Juliet...
posted by Effigy2000 at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by Effigy2000 at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2008
As someone else who finally caved in and watched all four seasons in one very long week (summary conclusion: meh. Some good ideas dragged through aching eons of awkward execution), I think I found Dr Jack, that idiotic master of neither strategy, tactics nor common sense, to be the most annoying character of all. How many times can they make a single character angry, petty and irrational and still expect sympathy from the viewer?
But yeah, Michael too.
posted by rokusan at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2008
But yeah, Michael too.
posted by rokusan at 2:35 PM on June 14, 2008
Kate was better early, when she was a devious badass. Once they started feeling the need to make her endearing, she melted away to useless as a character. See also: Sawyer.
Whenever that show has an edge, they seem to overreact and bland it up by making everyone (everyone!) all vanilla and likeable. Lame.
posted by rokusan at 2:37 PM on June 14, 2008
Whenever that show has an edge, they seem to overreact and bland it up by making everyone (everyone!) all vanilla and likeable. Lame.
posted by rokusan at 2:37 PM on June 14, 2008
If anyone wants a serious link about Lost, here's LostEffinPedia. There ya go! This thread has been saved from weak linkage. You may all now bow down before me and worship my taller Walt. If you can't find what you want to find in LostPedia, GO MAKE A PAGE AND PUT IT THERE YOURSELVIS! That website is so full of chocolatey goodness it gave me cavities.
The death of Locke was inevitable. He sealed his fate last season when he killed ..whaterface? Uhm... the chick from Vegas who was in the show for like three episodes and then that was it.
*kicks self for forgetting her name*
*runs over to LostEffinPedia*
Naomi that's it. He killed her, and when he killed her, The Writer Gods were saying, "oh this guy's not as nice as some of you thought, but he has to be nice. We're gonna kill him." When a 'hero' turns villian, if you want him to stay hero, he has to be punished for whatever it was he did wrong. An eye for an eye and all that. I knew Locke was dust the second he put the knife in her back. It was a cowardly kill, even. Locke killed a woman in cold blood from behind. Heroes don't walk away from that without penance. Not in western storytelling anyway.
Had Jack killed Ben on the operating table, and then we found out Ben wasn't as bad off as we thought he was? Jack would have had to die. Very simple.
Michael killed two innocents in cold blood. He had to die. He didn't have to die right then and there, but eventually he was gonna die. That's storytelling.
You can't just let a major hero go around killing someone who may or may not be a good guy. You can have Jack kill someone who is definitely bad, but if it's possible they might be good? Can't kill him, not without killing Jack. Same with Locke. '
Unless we're talking about glorified extras, and Naomi was almost a glorified extra, but she has some kinda connection to Penny, so Locke screwed up. Especially since what she wanted to do, Jack did five minutes later ANYWAY! So it was a pointless death. Triple whammy.
Locke had to die. So next season will show us how he died, and he probably won't actually die in season five until the very end of season five. So we'll still see Locke in Island Flashbacks (yes they're flashBACKS now cuz they happened years ago way back in 2003-4). At the very end of season five, they'll show us how Locke died, and they'll also show us how they plan to bring him back to life. So by season six Locke will be alive again and wandering around, and Terry O'Quinn will still be getting a steady paycheck.
AND IF THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS SHOW JUMP THE SHARK, THEY'LL THROW IN A BUNCH OF ACTUAL SHARKS FOR YA! YOU JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!
posted by ZachsMind at 2:50 PM on June 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
The death of Locke was inevitable. He sealed his fate last season when he killed ..whaterface? Uhm... the chick from Vegas who was in the show for like three episodes and then that was it.
*kicks self for forgetting her name*
*runs over to LostEffinPedia*
Naomi that's it. He killed her, and when he killed her, The Writer Gods were saying, "oh this guy's not as nice as some of you thought, but he has to be nice. We're gonna kill him." When a 'hero' turns villian, if you want him to stay hero, he has to be punished for whatever it was he did wrong. An eye for an eye and all that. I knew Locke was dust the second he put the knife in her back. It was a cowardly kill, even. Locke killed a woman in cold blood from behind. Heroes don't walk away from that without penance. Not in western storytelling anyway.
Had Jack killed Ben on the operating table, and then we found out Ben wasn't as bad off as we thought he was? Jack would have had to die. Very simple.
Michael killed two innocents in cold blood. He had to die. He didn't have to die right then and there, but eventually he was gonna die. That's storytelling.
You can't just let a major hero go around killing someone who may or may not be a good guy. You can have Jack kill someone who is definitely bad, but if it's possible they might be good? Can't kill him, not without killing Jack. Same with Locke. '
Unless we're talking about glorified extras, and Naomi was almost a glorified extra, but she has some kinda connection to Penny, so Locke screwed up. Especially since what she wanted to do, Jack did five minutes later ANYWAY! So it was a pointless death. Triple whammy.
Locke had to die. So next season will show us how he died, and he probably won't actually die in season five until the very end of season five. So we'll still see Locke in Island Flashbacks (yes they're flashBACKS now cuz they happened years ago way back in 2003-4). At the very end of season five, they'll show us how Locke died, and they'll also show us how they plan to bring him back to life. So by season six Locke will be alive again and wandering around, and Terry O'Quinn will still be getting a steady paycheck.
AND IF THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS SHOW JUMP THE SHARK, THEY'LL THROW IN A BUNCH OF ACTUAL SHARKS FOR YA! YOU JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!
posted by ZachsMind at 2:50 PM on June 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
For those of you saying you hate character X cuz they're whiny or indecisive or whatever, will you please step back away from the narrow minded view and look at the big picture here?
Where did Kate and Jack come from? A crashed plane. They're not supposed to be heroic. They're not supposed to be perfect. They're not supposed to be anything other than lost.
I dunno about you, but if I survived a crashed plane and found myself on a tropical island? I'd be less heroic than Shannon. I'd be a blubbering idiot crazy person hoarding banana peels and talking to deflated volley balls. If I ever figured out how to make fire without a microwave oven, I'd consider myself lucky. Doing anything beyond that? Get yourself another survivor cuz I ain't it. The characters that the writers have developed are flawed which makes them believable, but they also have driven motivations that makes them out of the ordinary, and causes them to want to find out why the Island is so creepy weird. To me, that makes them unbelievable.
There are reasons why this show is one of the best written and produced shows and one of the few shows worth watching at all on television. Just going 'meh' at it means you went into it expecting The Ten Commandments versus Godzilla. There's just no pleasing some people.
If these characters were perfect, you'd be complaining about THAT!
posted by ZachsMind at 3:17 PM on June 14, 2008
Where did Kate and Jack come from? A crashed plane. They're not supposed to be heroic. They're not supposed to be perfect. They're not supposed to be anything other than lost.
I dunno about you, but if I survived a crashed plane and found myself on a tropical island? I'd be less heroic than Shannon. I'd be a blubbering idiot crazy person hoarding banana peels and talking to deflated volley balls. If I ever figured out how to make fire without a microwave oven, I'd consider myself lucky. Doing anything beyond that? Get yourself another survivor cuz I ain't it. The characters that the writers have developed are flawed which makes them believable, but they also have driven motivations that makes them out of the ordinary, and causes them to want to find out why the Island is so creepy weird. To me, that makes them unbelievable.
There are reasons why this show is one of the best written and produced shows and one of the few shows worth watching at all on television. Just going 'meh' at it means you went into it expecting The Ten Commandments versus Godzilla. There's just no pleasing some people.
If these characters were perfect, you'd be complaining about THAT!
posted by ZachsMind at 3:17 PM on June 14, 2008
ZachsMind: "For those of you saying you hate character X cuz they're whiny or indecisive or whatever, will you please step back away from the narrow minded view and look at the big picture here?
Where did Kate and Jack come from? A crashed plane. They're not supposed to be heroic. They're not supposed to be perfect. They're not supposed to be anything other than lost. "
A fine argument, ZachsMind, if they didn't have them being all being heroic every other second of the show. Kate is the perfect example. Always happy to follow Jack or Sawyer into trouble while holding a gun, gets pissed off if they don't allow her to go, and once she actually gets into trouble she turns into a blubbering wreck. As a member of the audience it pisses me off when I see a character walk into situations she should, by now, know she can't handle and then blows everything when she runs into said situation.
That said, I love LOST, and can't wait till it comes back on the air. This last season has been freaking fantastic.
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:04 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Where did Kate and Jack come from? A crashed plane. They're not supposed to be heroic. They're not supposed to be perfect. They're not supposed to be anything other than lost. "
A fine argument, ZachsMind, if they didn't have them being all being heroic every other second of the show. Kate is the perfect example. Always happy to follow Jack or Sawyer into trouble while holding a gun, gets pissed off if they don't allow her to go, and once she actually gets into trouble she turns into a blubbering wreck. As a member of the audience it pisses me off when I see a character walk into situations she should, by now, know she can't handle and then blows everything when she runs into said situation.
That said, I love LOST, and can't wait till it comes back on the air. This last season has been freaking fantastic.
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:04 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
The thing that reaaaalllyyyy bugged me about Season 4 was Jack and Kate's insistance on calling him "The Baby".
That really annoyed me, at first. Until it became downright comical to watch them do that when Aaron was walking around and played by a reasonably large toddler. How old does that kid have to be before you stop calling him "the baby"?
posted by Gary at 4:31 PM on June 14, 2008
That really annoyed me, at first. Until it became downright comical to watch them do that when Aaron was walking around and played by a reasonably large toddler. How old does that kid have to be before you stop calling him "the baby"?
posted by Gary at 4:31 PM on June 14, 2008
For those of you saying you hate character X cuz they're whiny or indecisive or whatever, will you please step back away from the narrow minded view and look at the big picture here?
Still, they should ditch the whiny folk for one of the background extras. Those guys will put up with anything. How many funerals do you have to attend before you say "Hmm, maybe I don't want to get on a dinghy with a crazy scientist I've never seen before".
posted by Gary at 4:43 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
Still, they should ditch the whiny folk for one of the background extras. Those guys will put up with anything. How many funerals do you have to attend before you say "Hmm, maybe I don't want to get on a dinghy with a crazy scientist I've never seen before".
posted by Gary at 4:43 PM on June 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
For those of you saying you hate character X cuz they're whiny or indecisive or whatever, will you please step back away from the narrow minded view and look at the big picture here?
No, whiny and indecisive would be fine. The characters are far too shallow, actually. They each seem to have one painfully obvious "flaw" that's leveraged to death, over and over and over and over again, to generate sympathy. It's overplayed so much that you either (1) fall for it and they're just shiny happy heros, or (2) you hate them because they're so predictable.
They also lack curiosity to a degree that's infuriating (everything and everyone about the first Hatch, for example) and never seems to have a payoff. After months, you're not allowed to be in shock anymore... if you're a human being you at least try to figure out, for example, what the goddamn wires are connected to.
Maybe it's because I watched them all in the course of a little more than a week that it was sort of teeth-grating, in that with weeks or months in between I'd have forgotten enough to not be insulted by the slowpoke repetition, but when you get the same points about a character nine or ten times, it's like being hammered to death... very slowly.
I'll watch the next season, if only for closure, but they're going to have to ramp something up to make it interesting. What twists there have been since year one have been projected so hard there was never any surprise left. It seems to have been on a slow downhill plane since the first season.
Too bad, too: there are some great ideas in there.
posted by rokusan at 5:22 PM on June 14, 2008
No, whiny and indecisive would be fine. The characters are far too shallow, actually. They each seem to have one painfully obvious "flaw" that's leveraged to death, over and over and over and over again, to generate sympathy. It's overplayed so much that you either (1) fall for it and they're just shiny happy heros, or (2) you hate them because they're so predictable.
They also lack curiosity to a degree that's infuriating (everything and everyone about the first Hatch, for example) and never seems to have a payoff. After months, you're not allowed to be in shock anymore... if you're a human being you at least try to figure out, for example, what the goddamn wires are connected to.
Maybe it's because I watched them all in the course of a little more than a week that it was sort of teeth-grating, in that with weeks or months in between I'd have forgotten enough to not be insulted by the slowpoke repetition, but when you get the same points about a character nine or ten times, it's like being hammered to death... very slowly.
I'll watch the next season, if only for closure, but they're going to have to ramp something up to make it interesting. What twists there have been since year one have been projected so hard there was never any surprise left. It seems to have been on a slow downhill plane since the first season.
Too bad, too: there are some great ideas in there.
posted by rokusan at 5:22 PM on June 14, 2008
The thing that reaaaalllyyyy bugged me about Season 4 was Jack and Kate's insistance on calling him "The Baby".
That really annoyed me, at first.
Semi-educated guess: they could not call him Aaron because due to the show's structure (and what seems to be to often be scattershot plot decisions), at the time those scenes were shot, the actors pretty likely did not yet know that was Aaron. The scripts on Lost are famously guarded and the cast is most certainly not in the loop.
Moreover, at the time they were filmed, it's very likely that the producers, writers and directors did not yet know when those scenes would be used. It may have been before the audience was "supposed" to know it was Aaron, too. This is probably also why, often, characters don't have the "obvious" emotional reaction to other characters one might expect. The scenes we have seen are not shown in the order shot.
(I have been involved with scripts like this before (not for Lost, I'd have been fired in a week for bitching about continuity and/or bad science), and it's definitely a much less pre-planned business than one would think upon seeing only the final work. Entire stories are changed long, long after the scenes have been shot. What was once planned as in-story becomes a flashback, major plotlines are removed, two single-camera takes from two unrelated scenes are used to make a completely unrelated two-person 'conversation' that never took place on set, etc. And that's even without pickups and reshoots, which can also amend things years later.)
Combining my experiences on other work with the widely-reported secrecy Abrams applies to Lost leads me to guess, for example, that many major characters have already filmed their own 'death' scenes, perhaps even more than one each. Most won't be used.
posted by rokusan at 5:34 PM on June 14, 2008
That really annoyed me, at first.
Semi-educated guess: they could not call him Aaron because due to the show's structure (and what seems to be to often be scattershot plot decisions), at the time those scenes were shot, the actors pretty likely did not yet know that was Aaron. The scripts on Lost are famously guarded and the cast is most certainly not in the loop.
Moreover, at the time they were filmed, it's very likely that the producers, writers and directors did not yet know when those scenes would be used. It may have been before the audience was "supposed" to know it was Aaron, too. This is probably also why, often, characters don't have the "obvious" emotional reaction to other characters one might expect. The scenes we have seen are not shown in the order shot.
(I have been involved with scripts like this before (not for Lost, I'd have been fired in a week for bitching about continuity and/or bad science), and it's definitely a much less pre-planned business than one would think upon seeing only the final work. Entire stories are changed long, long after the scenes have been shot. What was once planned as in-story becomes a flashback, major plotlines are removed, two single-camera takes from two unrelated scenes are used to make a completely unrelated two-person 'conversation' that never took place on set, etc. And that's even without pickups and reshoots, which can also amend things years later.)
Combining my experiences on other work with the widely-reported secrecy Abrams applies to Lost leads me to guess, for example, that many major characters have already filmed their own 'death' scenes, perhaps even more than one each. Most won't be used.
posted by rokusan at 5:34 PM on June 14, 2008
After years of hearing the hype, I just started watching...and am ready to abandon this halfway through season one.
Can anyone tell me, does it get any better? Maybe it's watching the episodes back to back, but the only thing that this series seems to do well is promise answers that it never delivers. The mysteries that were set up so well in the first few episodes seem to immediately fade into the background and the entire thing seems to have devolved into another nighttime soap opera.
posted by zylocomotion at 6:28 PM on June 14, 2008
Can anyone tell me, does it get any better? Maybe it's watching the episodes back to back, but the only thing that this series seems to do well is promise answers that it never delivers. The mysteries that were set up so well in the first few episodes seem to immediately fade into the background and the entire thing seems to have devolved into another nighttime soap opera.
posted by zylocomotion at 6:28 PM on June 14, 2008
Keep watching. While I loved seasons 1-3, I did find them frustrating ... but IMHO season 4 really started to tie the show together, solving mysteries and bringing up questions at an appropriate rate.
posted by elisabethjw at 6:37 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by elisabethjw at 6:37 PM on June 14, 2008
Can anyone tell me, does it get any better?
That depends. It's definitely spotty, but even though I have the same nagging feeling I got just before I abandoned The X-Files back in the day, Lost has thus far kept me hanging in there...although admittedly some of that is that I know the end is in sight, and that they won't keep painting themselves into a corner and then pulling a bait-and-switch season after season. That said, every time I try to get out, they pull me back in. But YMMV, I might look at it differently if I was watching it on DVD from the get-go.
posted by biscotti at 6:44 PM on June 14, 2008
That depends. It's definitely spotty, but even though I have the same nagging feeling I got just before I abandoned The X-Files back in the day, Lost has thus far kept me hanging in there...although admittedly some of that is that I know the end is in sight, and that they won't keep painting themselves into a corner and then pulling a bait-and-switch season after season. That said, every time I try to get out, they pull me back in. But YMMV, I might look at it differently if I was watching it on DVD from the get-go.
posted by biscotti at 6:44 PM on June 14, 2008
I lost interest in X-Files in season five about the time of the movie, when they insisted on letting the Shippers win. It suddenly stopped being anything more to me than Remington Steele with occasional aliens in it. Sad, really. The first four seasons were some exceptional TV, but the kiss with the bee that stung Scully? In that moment the series jumped the shark for me and tho some sense of duty caused me to keep coming back for more like a Pavlovian dog, it was never the same.
Buffy the Vampire slayer jumped the shark for me from day one. And for its first five years I ignored it completely. Then by chance I caught it at the start of season six, got hooked, and went back and devoured the first five seasons like crazy. Why? Cuz I got it. Season six started with Buffy being dead, then she comes back to life. She is essentially the very thing she's been charged to slay: she's a monster. I thought that was brilliant writing. That was inspired lunacy genius. The series made much more sense to me because I realized where the writers were going with it, so the first five seasons were much more enjoyable. I could see Buffy for her flaws and her mistakes and her stupidity with Spike and Angel made perfect sense cuz she too was like them. I just really dug the contrasts and the dichotomy there.
Okay. Lost. Does it get any better? Well I been with it pretty much since day one. It goes up and down. Some episodes are simply better than others. It's not consistently fantastic, but it is consistently interesting. Looking back now at season one is tough, knowing what we know. The writers had an idea where they were going but they hadn't fleshed it all out. Still, the first conversations between Locke and Jack are very telling. They were purposefully setting up a relationship here that is actually quite disturbing.
I for one want to stick around to the end, just to see just how Locke and Jack bury the hatchet. There's multiple possible ways. I also happen to like the character of Hurley. So as long as he's in it, I'm there too. The rest of it is up and down yes and no maybe maybe not kinda sorta.
The girls are easy on the eyes. For the most part. That's a plus.
To be honest though, most people who watch the show didn't start getting annoyed by it until somewhere around season two. Season one was pretty consistently amazing, so if you're watching season one and it's already annoying you? Maybe you should look into the DVDs for Dead Like Me or something that's not Lost. Otherwise, you got a long way to go.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:28 PM on June 14, 2008
Buffy the Vampire slayer jumped the shark for me from day one. And for its first five years I ignored it completely. Then by chance I caught it at the start of season six, got hooked, and went back and devoured the first five seasons like crazy. Why? Cuz I got it. Season six started with Buffy being dead, then she comes back to life. She is essentially the very thing she's been charged to slay: she's a monster. I thought that was brilliant writing. That was inspired lunacy genius. The series made much more sense to me because I realized where the writers were going with it, so the first five seasons were much more enjoyable. I could see Buffy for her flaws and her mistakes and her stupidity with Spike and Angel made perfect sense cuz she too was like them. I just really dug the contrasts and the dichotomy there.
Okay. Lost. Does it get any better? Well I been with it pretty much since day one. It goes up and down. Some episodes are simply better than others. It's not consistently fantastic, but it is consistently interesting. Looking back now at season one is tough, knowing what we know. The writers had an idea where they were going but they hadn't fleshed it all out. Still, the first conversations between Locke and Jack are very telling. They were purposefully setting up a relationship here that is actually quite disturbing.
I for one want to stick around to the end, just to see just how Locke and Jack bury the hatchet. There's multiple possible ways. I also happen to like the character of Hurley. So as long as he's in it, I'm there too. The rest of it is up and down yes and no maybe maybe not kinda sorta.
The girls are easy on the eyes. For the most part. That's a plus.
To be honest though, most people who watch the show didn't start getting annoyed by it until somewhere around season two. Season one was pretty consistently amazing, so if you're watching season one and it's already annoying you? Maybe you should look into the DVDs for Dead Like Me or something that's not Lost. Otherwise, you got a long way to go.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:28 PM on June 14, 2008
After years of hearing the hype, I just started watching...and am ready to abandon this halfway through season one. Can anyone tell me, does it get any better?
I just flipped through them again to see which were the best episodes (I too watched them back to back while traveling and had pretty much your experience. I stuck it out anyway, but I'm not sure it was worth the time)... Season 1 and 2 were better than 3 and 4, for sure. Most of S4, in fact, is a dramatic disaster that I kept hoping they'd fix but... no. Overall, the show does burn way, way, waaaay too much time on soap opera nonsense (and this increases as it drags on, so beware) and does a better job teasing than actually delivering on any of the 'sci-fi' or major plot elements. There are some great core ideas in there, but the characters are painfully shallow, and every twist is either too telegraphed or too nonsensical to be satisfying.
So, I guess... if you're not hooked after the first five or six episodes, don't feel bad for dropping it. You're not missing any great moment later when it suddenly gets better, no.
I just realized how many negative comments I've now made on Lost here. I think I'm just reacting. It's not an awful show, and it seems to be one of the best on network TV. It just fell so short of its slick potential, and its massive hype, that I don't think it's very special.
posted by rokusan at 12:18 AM on June 15, 2008
I just flipped through them again to see which were the best episodes (I too watched them back to back while traveling and had pretty much your experience. I stuck it out anyway, but I'm not sure it was worth the time)... Season 1 and 2 were better than 3 and 4, for sure. Most of S4, in fact, is a dramatic disaster that I kept hoping they'd fix but... no. Overall, the show does burn way, way, waaaay too much time on soap opera nonsense (and this increases as it drags on, so beware) and does a better job teasing than actually delivering on any of the 'sci-fi' or major plot elements. There are some great core ideas in there, but the characters are painfully shallow, and every twist is either too telegraphed or too nonsensical to be satisfying.
So, I guess... if you're not hooked after the first five or six episodes, don't feel bad for dropping it. You're not missing any great moment later when it suddenly gets better, no.
I just realized how many negative comments I've now made on Lost here. I think I'm just reacting. It's not an awful show, and it seems to be one of the best on network TV. It just fell so short of its slick potential, and its massive hype, that I don't think it's very special.
posted by rokusan at 12:18 AM on June 15, 2008
[X-Files] suddenly stopped being anything more to me than Remington Steele with occasional aliens in it.
I disagree with most of what ZachsMind has said about Lost in this thread (I think he's being too charitable) but I do have to say that sentence above absolutely NAILS what was wrong with X-Files. Kudos.
Also, Dead Like Me is good, though I'd first go back to The Wire, Six Feet Under, Deadwood or even Dexter if I was in adownloading DVD rental mood. The only show on network that comes close to that is probably Battlestar Galactica... which I was very reluctant to try, but it did deliver.
What digressions. How can I get back on track? Oh yeah... WAAAAAAAAAAALT!
posted by rokusan at 12:23 AM on June 15, 2008
I disagree with most of what ZachsMind has said about Lost in this thread (I think he's being too charitable) but I do have to say that sentence above absolutely NAILS what was wrong with X-Files. Kudos.
Also, Dead Like Me is good, though I'd first go back to The Wire, Six Feet Under, Deadwood or even Dexter if I was in a
What digressions. How can I get back on track? Oh yeah... WAAAAAAAAAAALT!
posted by rokusan at 12:23 AM on June 15, 2008
The girls are easy on the eyes. For the most part. That's a plus.
Even that was ruined for me when they killed [REDACTED] needlessly. What a wasted character.
posted by rokusan at 12:24 AM on June 15, 2008
Even that was ruined for me when they killed [REDACTED] needlessly. What a wasted character.
posted by rokusan at 12:24 AM on June 15, 2008
Rokusan: "I disagree with most of what ZachsMind has said about Lost in this thread (I think he's being too charitable) but I do have to say that sentence above absolutely NAILS what was wrong with X-Files. Kudos."
Uhm... Thanks?
I think Lost's problem is the men behind the curtain know The Big Reveal will either make the audience freak out in a good way, or we'll pick up our torches and pitchforks. I don't know what The Big Reveal is gonna be. Producers have insisted it's not "purgatory" or "dreamtime" or "clones" but that these are actual people and what is happening is real and there's a real, rational explanation for everything. However, it's gonna have to be something that explains the occasional disconnect with the laws of physics. There's an abstract reality to Lost that defies the concrete, which will have to be addressed by series' end.
I'm anticipating The Big Reveal to be like an M. Night Shyamalan film. I liked The Big Reveal in The Sixth Sense. I didn't like The Big Reveal in Signs or The Village. It's ultimately a magic trick on the part of the writers. Misdirection. Sleight of hand. This can work if you only have to fill an hour and a half before the reveal, but only if the reveal is actually impressive. However, if you're trying to fill three or four seasons worth of episodes and must avoid The Big Reveal until the very end? What else is there to fill it with but plots that don't touch on The Big Reveal? That's where the soap opera crud leaks in.
We don't care who Kate ends up with. We wanna know what that crazy Smoke Monster thing really is. Why does it sound like chains dragging across a soundstage? What's up with that?
The TV series Fugitive had a Big Reveal that was set in place from day one: Dr. Kimble had to prove the One Armed Man that killed his wife did exist, in order to prove his own innocence, so he could quit running. So the very last episode resolved that. Had they resolved that before the last episode, Kimble could stop running, so there'd be no more show. What would happen after that? Kimble is proclaimed innocent and goes back to chief of surgery in a hospital? Not running anymore? That'd be boring.
So everyone wants the producers of Lost to answer the questions they've posed, but as soon as they do, the show will be over. If the show keeps on going after The Big Reveal, we will stop watching. Cuz frankly I don't wanna see Sawyer and Kate living happily ever after in a domestic sitcom. Even if Hurley is the wacky neighbor.
Dead Like Me was awesome. Especially the first season. It started losing some steam near the end there, but there was promise it was going somewhere when suddenly it just stops. Weird. Kinda like Joan of Arcadia. Started great. Lost steam. Turned soap opera-ishy. Then just stops. Weird.
I'm still very reluctant to try Battlestar Galactica. Well, I tried the first episode, and the second I realized that this new Starbuck was a girl? I was like WTF? Can't get past that. They ruined it for me. And I can't go back and watch the original cuz time has not been kind to it. I can't believe when I was ten years old I used to think those special effects were awesome.
Six Feet Under I haven't tried cuz the first five years of my life were spent living next to a funeral home. My dad worked there and the house came with the job. I think Six Feet Under might cut too close to my proverbial bone.
The Wire sounds like a cop and robber drama thing that wants to be grittier than previous attempts at the same thing. After Hill Street Blues, which I enjoyed in its heyday, I'm really not interested in revisiting that particular cliche again and again. I'm sure it's great, but cop drama is for me like hospital drama or courtroom drama. Been there done that bought the t-shirt. Next?
Deadwood season one was amazing. Stunning cast. Fantastic directing. Costumes and sets were a feast for the eyes. Plot development was suspenseful and thought provoking. The language was definite shock value hiding itself as 'historical accuracy' but I saw through that and found some real value in the show. By season two though the luster wore off. I just stopped caring about these characters and what was going to happen to them.
Y'know what show I miss and should probably try to find on DVD? Northern Exposure! Now that was good television.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:01 AM on June 15, 2008
Uhm... Thanks?
I think Lost's problem is the men behind the curtain know The Big Reveal will either make the audience freak out in a good way, or we'll pick up our torches and pitchforks. I don't know what The Big Reveal is gonna be. Producers have insisted it's not "purgatory" or "dreamtime" or "clones" but that these are actual people and what is happening is real and there's a real, rational explanation for everything. However, it's gonna have to be something that explains the occasional disconnect with the laws of physics. There's an abstract reality to Lost that defies the concrete, which will have to be addressed by series' end.
I'm anticipating The Big Reveal to be like an M. Night Shyamalan film. I liked The Big Reveal in The Sixth Sense. I didn't like The Big Reveal in Signs or The Village. It's ultimately a magic trick on the part of the writers. Misdirection. Sleight of hand. This can work if you only have to fill an hour and a half before the reveal, but only if the reveal is actually impressive. However, if you're trying to fill three or four seasons worth of episodes and must avoid The Big Reveal until the very end? What else is there to fill it with but plots that don't touch on The Big Reveal? That's where the soap opera crud leaks in.
We don't care who Kate ends up with. We wanna know what that crazy Smoke Monster thing really is. Why does it sound like chains dragging across a soundstage? What's up with that?
The TV series Fugitive had a Big Reveal that was set in place from day one: Dr. Kimble had to prove the One Armed Man that killed his wife did exist, in order to prove his own innocence, so he could quit running. So the very last episode resolved that. Had they resolved that before the last episode, Kimble could stop running, so there'd be no more show. What would happen after that? Kimble is proclaimed innocent and goes back to chief of surgery in a hospital? Not running anymore? That'd be boring.
So everyone wants the producers of Lost to answer the questions they've posed, but as soon as they do, the show will be over. If the show keeps on going after The Big Reveal, we will stop watching. Cuz frankly I don't wanna see Sawyer and Kate living happily ever after in a domestic sitcom. Even if Hurley is the wacky neighbor.
Dead Like Me was awesome. Especially the first season. It started losing some steam near the end there, but there was promise it was going somewhere when suddenly it just stops. Weird. Kinda like Joan of Arcadia. Started great. Lost steam. Turned soap opera-ishy. Then just stops. Weird.
I'm still very reluctant to try Battlestar Galactica. Well, I tried the first episode, and the second I realized that this new Starbuck was a girl? I was like WTF? Can't get past that. They ruined it for me. And I can't go back and watch the original cuz time has not been kind to it. I can't believe when I was ten years old I used to think those special effects were awesome.
Six Feet Under I haven't tried cuz the first five years of my life were spent living next to a funeral home. My dad worked there and the house came with the job. I think Six Feet Under might cut too close to my proverbial bone.
The Wire sounds like a cop and robber drama thing that wants to be grittier than previous attempts at the same thing. After Hill Street Blues, which I enjoyed in its heyday, I'm really not interested in revisiting that particular cliche again and again. I'm sure it's great, but cop drama is for me like hospital drama or courtroom drama. Been there done that bought the t-shirt. Next?
Deadwood season one was amazing. Stunning cast. Fantastic directing. Costumes and sets were a feast for the eyes. Plot development was suspenseful and thought provoking. The language was definite shock value hiding itself as 'historical accuracy' but I saw through that and found some real value in the show. By season two though the luster wore off. I just stopped caring about these characters and what was going to happen to them.
Y'know what show I miss and should probably try to find on DVD? Northern Exposure! Now that was good television.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:01 AM on June 15, 2008
The series made much more sense to me because I realized where the writers were going with it, so the first five seasons were much more enjoyable.
I get your general point, but I find the wording "where the writers were going with it" problematic. Buffy didn't plan ahead that much. I mean, they planned out seasons, and built on the season that had come before, but Joss didn't have it all figured out in advance.
In particular, the transition from season 5 to 6 wasn't completely planned. My understanding is that at the time they had to figure out the fifth season, Joss and the writers weren't sure they'd survive the negotiations that eventually took them to UPN. They weren't sure there'd be a sixth season.
So they killed Buffy. If the show didn't make it back: Hey, big bang ending. If it did: You get to deal with someone being ripped out of a pretty peaceful post-life by her friends...
It's genius. Startling, ballsy genius on a story-telling level.
But it's not like Joss sat around thinking back at the start, "Oh, hey. And after a certain point, we'll kill Buffy and bring her back."
PS: WAAAAALLLLTTTT! HAVE YOU SEEN MY BOY, WALT? THEY TOOK MY SON. Fuck you, Michael. I will never forgive you for season 2.
posted by sparkletone at 10:08 AM on June 15, 2008
I get your general point, but I find the wording "where the writers were going with it" problematic. Buffy didn't plan ahead that much. I mean, they planned out seasons, and built on the season that had come before, but Joss didn't have it all figured out in advance.
In particular, the transition from season 5 to 6 wasn't completely planned. My understanding is that at the time they had to figure out the fifth season, Joss and the writers weren't sure they'd survive the negotiations that eventually took them to UPN. They weren't sure there'd be a sixth season.
So they killed Buffy. If the show didn't make it back: Hey, big bang ending. If it did: You get to deal with someone being ripped out of a pretty peaceful post-life by her friends...
It's genius. Startling, ballsy genius on a story-telling level.
But it's not like Joss sat around thinking back at the start, "Oh, hey. And after a certain point, we'll kill Buffy and bring her back."
PS: WAAAAALLLLTTTT! HAVE YOU SEEN MY BOY, WALT? THEY TOOK MY SON. Fuck you, Michael. I will never forgive you for season 2.
posted by sparkletone at 10:08 AM on June 15, 2008
The Wire sounds like a cop and robber drama thing that wants to be grittier than previous attempts at the same thing.
No, no. It's not like that at all. The Wire is not cheap. It is not lazy. It does not take shortcuts. It is hard to appreciate what kind of a revelation that is until you see it for yourself. The show does not take shortcuts. Don't write it off. I don't want to spoil it with overhype so let me just exhort you: give it a chance.
posted by Khalad at 11:47 AM on June 15, 2008
No, no. It's not like that at all. The Wire is not cheap. It is not lazy. It does not take shortcuts. It is hard to appreciate what kind of a revelation that is until you see it for yourself. The show does not take shortcuts. Don't write it off. I don't want to spoil it with overhype so let me just exhort you: give it a chance.
posted by Khalad at 11:47 AM on June 15, 2008
Yeah, I'll tell you how the season ends. They make the final jump to Earth but it turns out that the bastards blew it up!
Oh. Oops.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:02 PM on June 15, 2008
Oh. Oops.
posted by turgid dahlia at 4:02 PM on June 15, 2008
Those of us fully indoctrinated into the cult (you heard me) got like NINE MONTHS to rehash it amongst ourselves while we wait for season five
HBO and the BBC have convinced me that Lost is finally getting it right. I would much rather wait 9 months for 13 well written episodes than get 22 episodes where Shannon & Boone have the exact same fight in 7 of them. Actually, I guess it's still 16 episodes in Lost's case, but I'm sure they could still tighten it up in places.
Or spare a few episodes for completely off the main plot experiments, like Doctor Who seems to do so well.
posted by Gary at 4:52 PM on June 15, 2008
HBO and the BBC have convinced me that Lost is finally getting it right. I would much rather wait 9 months for 13 well written episodes than get 22 episodes where Shannon & Boone have the exact same fight in 7 of them. Actually, I guess it's still 16 episodes in Lost's case, but I'm sure they could still tighten it up in places.
Or spare a few episodes for completely off the main plot experiments, like Doctor Who seems to do so well.
posted by Gary at 4:52 PM on June 15, 2008
The Wire sounds like a cop and robber drama thing that wants to be grittier than previous attempts at the same thing.
You're thinking of The Shield.
The Wire, yes, involves police and people on the other side of the law. But to lump it in with anything even remotely resembling. The Wire is that freak accident that shows you what's really possible in a given genre, and makes everything else in it look cheap, stilted and small.
posted by sparkletone at 8:08 PM on June 15, 2008
You're thinking of The Shield.
The Wire, yes, involves police and people on the other side of the law. But to lump it in with anything even remotely resembling. The Wire is that freak accident that shows you what's really possible in a given genre, and makes everything else in it look cheap, stilted and small.
posted by sparkletone at 8:08 PM on June 15, 2008
That expression "water-cooler moment" has always bugged me, but no show other than Lost has actually had me talking to someone about the latest episode while I'm filling up a waterbottle first thing on a Friday morning and I hate them for that, I really do.
What I would really have liked though would have been while The Wire was on and I could have hung around the water-cooler just waiting for someone to spark up a conversation about it.
The Wire was a real find and reminded me that episodic formats can work for stories I'm willing to invest years into and be justly and incrementally rewarded by season after season. They just built on everything and they didn't hit any reset buttons and they kept the characters consistent; it all worked brilliantly.
posted by Molesome at 9:50 AM on June 17, 2008
What I would really have liked though would have been while The Wire was on and I could have hung around the water-cooler just waiting for someone to spark up a conversation about it.
The Wire was a real find and reminded me that episodic formats can work for stories I'm willing to invest years into and be justly and incrementally rewarded by season after season. They just built on everything and they didn't hit any reset buttons and they kept the characters consistent; it all worked brilliantly.
posted by Molesome at 9:50 AM on June 17, 2008
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posted by Fizz at 5:36 AM on June 14, 2008