Many Happy Returns
July 18, 2008 4:01 AM Subscribe
Nelson Mandela is 90 today.
Thanks for FINALLY taking him off your terrorist watch list, George. That was big of you.
Thanks for FINALLY taking him off your terrorist watch list, George. That was big of you.
This post was deleted for the following reason: stop with the crappy editorializing, it screws up otherwise decent posts. -- jessamyn
It's kind of blue here, so you might have easily missed the red sarcasm dripping off of each word in my last sentence.
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:31 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:31 AM on July 18, 2008
South Africa's apartheid government had designated the ANC a terrorist organization...
Wait, the US just uses whatever list is handed to them for who is a terrorist? Even if it's handed to them by an external government of questionable ethicality? Even back in, apparently, the 70s or 80s?
Good thing I've never made any serious complaints to the government of Nigeria about all the spam I get. I'd hate to suddenly be arrested and extraordinarily-renditioned because I got on a terrorist list.
posted by DU at 4:50 AM on July 18, 2008
Wait, the US just uses whatever list is handed to them for who is a terrorist? Even if it's handed to them by an external government of questionable ethicality? Even back in, apparently, the 70s or 80s?
Good thing I've never made any serious complaints to the government of Nigeria about all the spam I get. I'd hate to suddenly be arrested and extraordinarily-renditioned because I got on a terrorist list.
posted by DU at 4:50 AM on July 18, 2008
Wait, the US just uses whatever list is handed to them for who is a terrorist?
Didn't you get the memo on this, DU? The motherfuckers are completely inept. The Homeland Security Department is peopled entirely by the sons and daughters of the Good Ole Boy Network.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:05 AM on July 18, 2008
Didn't you get the memo on this, DU? The motherfuckers are completely inept. The Homeland Security Department is peopled entirely by the sons and daughters of the Good Ole Boy Network.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:05 AM on July 18, 2008
Happy Birthday!
It seems likely that history will judge the only significant error in Mandela's otherwise unblemished record of wisdom and foresight was allowing Mbeki to succeed.
posted by Phanx at 5:11 AM on July 18, 2008
It seems likely that history will judge the only significant error in Mandela's otherwise unblemished record of wisdom and foresight was allowing Mbeki to succeed.
posted by Phanx at 5:11 AM on July 18, 2008
Wait, the US just uses whatever list is handed to them for who is a terrorist?
Mandela was leader of one of the ANC's armed groups. Didn't he say at his trial, "I do not deny that I planned sabotage. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation."
Of course that was in 1963. And he wasn't speaking in Arabic.
posted by three blind mice at 5:20 AM on July 18, 2008
Mandela was leader of one of the ANC's armed groups. Didn't he say at his trial, "I do not deny that I planned sabotage. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation."
Of course that was in 1963. And he wasn't speaking in Arabic.
posted by three blind mice at 5:20 AM on July 18, 2008
The Homeland Security Department is peopled entirely by the sons and daughters of the Good Ole Boy Network.
Homeland Security didn't exist when Mandela was put on this list.
posted by DU at 5:39 AM on July 18, 2008
Homeland Security didn't exist when Mandela was put on this list.
posted by DU at 5:39 AM on July 18, 2008
Yeah, but they left him on it. Surely, reviewing that list would be on their top five things to do list.
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:52 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:52 AM on July 18, 2008
The Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation) was a terrorist group in that they had series of attacks based on an ideological goal and those attacks were against or disregarded civilians. You don't get to blow bars or courts with civilians and not get to be a terrorist.
posted by garlic at 5:57 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by garlic at 5:57 AM on July 18, 2008
Who and when was he and the ANC put on the list?
Lists like these are always a hell of a lot easier to get on then to get off.
Nobel Peace Prize winner and international symbol of freedom Nelson Mandela is flagged on U.S. terrorist watch lists and needs special permission to visit the USA. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice calls the situation "embarrassing," and some members of Congress vow to fix it.
Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., chairman of the House International Relations Committee, is pushing a bill that would remove current and former ANC leaders from the watch lists. Supporters hope to get it passed before Mandela's 90th birthday July 18.
So all the indignation directed at GW is pretty much unfounded here as it takes a bit more than his signature to get off the list.
This gets a whopping 0 on my get out the pitchfork scale.
yawn
posted by a3matrix at 6:05 AM on July 18, 2008
Lists like these are always a hell of a lot easier to get on then to get off.
Nobel Peace Prize winner and international symbol of freedom Nelson Mandela is flagged on U.S. terrorist watch lists and needs special permission to visit the USA. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice calls the situation "embarrassing," and some members of Congress vow to fix it.
Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., chairman of the House International Relations Committee, is pushing a bill that would remove current and former ANC leaders from the watch lists. Supporters hope to get it passed before Mandela's 90th birthday July 18.
So all the indignation directed at GW is pretty much unfounded here as it takes a bit more than his signature to get off the list.
This gets a whopping 0 on my get out the pitchfork scale.
yawn
posted by a3matrix at 6:05 AM on July 18, 2008
I don't know... leaving a Nobel Peace Prize winner on a terrorist watch list for eight years seems like at least a 2 to me, a3matrix.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:39 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:39 AM on July 18, 2008
Last link: Apartheid was the nation's system of legalized racial segregation that was enforced by the National Party government between 1948 and 1994.
Thanks, CNN! We didn't know. We were just here to read about some black dude who apparently is a reformed terrorist. We had no idea!
posted by pracowity at 8:00 AM on July 18, 2008
Thanks, CNN! We didn't know. We were just here to read about some black dude who apparently is a reformed terrorist. We had no idea!
posted by pracowity at 8:00 AM on July 18, 2008
leaving a Nobel Peace Prize winner on a terrorist watch list for eight years seems like at least a 2 to me, a3matrix
Yea, because we all know that once you're a Nobel Peace Prize winner, you immediately give up terrorism.
posted by FuManchu at 8:59 AM on July 18, 2008
Yea, because we all know that once you're a Nobel Peace Prize winner, you immediately give up terrorism.
posted by FuManchu at 8:59 AM on July 18, 2008
Yeah, Kissinger got one of them, too.
This is just another illustration of how hard it can be to get off such lists -- terrorist, no-fly, sex criminal, etc. -- no matter how obvious it is that you don't deserve (perhaps never deserved) to be lumped in with the people who really need to be on such lists.
posted by pracowity at 9:45 AM on July 18, 2008
This is just another illustration of how hard it can be to get off such lists -- terrorist, no-fly, sex criminal, etc. -- no matter how obvious it is that you don't deserve (perhaps never deserved) to be lumped in with the people who really need to be on such lists.
posted by pracowity at 9:45 AM on July 18, 2008
Being off the watchlist is one thing but awhile back, Bushie spoke publicly as if Mandela were dead. I personally found this very embarrassing.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by ZachsMind at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2008
Nelson Mandela was a good terrorist. His cause was right and just and he wasn't attacking America.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:32 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:32 AM on July 18, 2008
.
posted by blue_beetle at 10:34 AM on July 18, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 10:34 AM on July 18, 2008
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South Africa's apartheid government had designated the ANC a terrorist organization during the group's decades-long struggle against whites-only rule. Its members have been barred from receiving U.S. visas without special permission, and the bill Bush signed will lift that requirement, State Department spokesman Tom Casey said. "What it will do is make sure that there aren't any extra hoops for either a distinguished individual, like former President Mandela, or other members of the African National Congress to get a U.S. visa," Casey said.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the "other members of the ANC" part though.
But big of George W? Why wasn't this done earlier? If anything, it's one of the few useful things Bush has done.
posted by three blind mice at 4:23 AM on July 18, 2008