Ram, gang, ram!
November 9, 2008 7:23 PM Subscribe
Zombies don't run, says Simon Pegg. Well ours do, says Charlie Brooker, director of Deadset. (also some stuff about the election and skeletor and stuff)
I guess I am a little tired of fast zombies. There was a weird claustrophobic charm to the Romero zombies that's been sorely lacking in zombie films lately.
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 7:33 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by Donnie VandenBos at 7:33 PM on November 9, 2008
I see nothing wrong with highly motivated zombies now and again.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:39 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:39 PM on November 9, 2008
Blame yourself, Simon: if you'd made that film badly
What does he mean "if"?
posted by cillit bang at 7:40 PM on November 9, 2008
What does he mean "if"?
posted by cillit bang at 7:40 PM on November 9, 2008
I do see something wrong with highly motivated zombie fanatics, always. Guess what dudes. They're made up. Fake. You know what determines the speed gate and actions of a zombie? Box office revenue and nothing more.
posted by Science! at 7:41 PM on November 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by Science! at 7:41 PM on November 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
You can't kill a vampire with MDF? Why not? It's mostly wood, innit? I think more testing should be done.
posted by pompomtom at 7:42 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by pompomtom at 7:42 PM on November 9, 2008
I would just like to register my dissatisfaction with fast zombies, and state that I agree with Mr. Pegg. Also that Shaun of the Dead was an excellent movie.
posted by echo target at 7:45 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by echo target at 7:45 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Whether zombies are fast or slow, I think that we, as a nation, can come together and agree that we need to aim for the head. TV says you gotta shoot 'em in the head.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:48 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:48 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Doesn't work in Return of The Living Dead.
Hush. We'll bring in new writers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:54 PM on November 9, 2008
Hush. We'll bring in new writers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:54 PM on November 9, 2008
Doesn't work in Return of The Living Dead.
No, but the naked punk/goth/whatever girl dancing on the tombstone did indeed work.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:55 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
No, but the naked punk/goth/whatever girl dancing on the tombstone did indeed work.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:55 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Doesn't work in Return of The Living Dead.
Who you gonna believe, them or Max Brooks?
posted by stevis23 at 7:56 PM on November 9, 2008
Who you gonna believe, them or Max Brooks?
posted by stevis23 at 7:56 PM on November 9, 2008
*Holds up "Jay Leno" sign*
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:56 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:56 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
I meant *equating* rather than equation.
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:01 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 8:01 PM on November 9, 2008
I see nothing wrong with highly motivated zombies now and again.
Isn't it "attractive and successful zombie americans"?
.....
I like the new fast zombies. A coworker of mine is a zombie purist, but when I watch a horror movie I like to see something horrifying. Something I can get away from on a 10-speed bicycle is not horrifying in the least.
posted by Kickstart70 at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2008
Isn't it "attractive and successful zombie americans"?
.....
I like the new fast zombies. A coworker of mine is a zombie purist, but when I watch a horror movie I like to see something horrifying. Something I can get away from on a 10-speed bicycle is not horrifying in the least.
posted by Kickstart70 at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2008
I admit that I am philosophically opposed to fast zombies, but the Left4Dead demo sure is a metric fuckton of fun.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:02 PM on November 9, 2008
GRAB MAH ZOMBAH BANANARAMA.
Does anyone still play UD?
posted by squorch at 8:05 PM on November 9, 2008
Does anyone still play UD?
posted by squorch at 8:05 PM on November 9, 2008
Oh, yeah, and Deadset was the latest in a long string of media from the UK that has helped to cement in my mind an impression that a) culture is, if anything, more debased there than it is in North America b) the English, at least, are labouring under such a massive collective load of debilitating self-loathing that it's a bit of a surprise that the whole country just doesn't implode.
I suppose it's been so for a long time, but it really seems to be reaching fever pitch these days.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:05 PM on November 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
I suppose it's been so for a long time, but it really seems to be reaching fever pitch these days.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:05 PM on November 9, 2008 [5 favorites]
> Something I can get away from on a 10-speed bicycle is not horrifying in the least.
The horror sets in when you have nowhere to escape to. You'll get tired and they won't. That's why zombie horror movies usually involve the populace of whole cities, countries or continents turned into zombies and not just, say, orthopedists.
posted by ardgedee at 8:22 PM on November 9, 2008 [7 favorites]
The horror sets in when you have nowhere to escape to. You'll get tired and they won't. That's why zombie horror movies usually involve the populace of whole cities, countries or continents turned into zombies and not just, say, orthopedists.
posted by ardgedee at 8:22 PM on November 9, 2008 [7 favorites]
Orthopedists are already zombies.
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:29 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by sonic meat machine at 8:29 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Does anyone still play UD?
I've got a L30 zombie looking for some friends, and I wouldn't be opposed to switching sides. Is there a mefi raiding party / safe house? Send me a mefimail if you want to meet up in game.
posted by tylermoody at 8:39 PM on November 9, 2008
I've got a L30 zombie looking for some friends, and I wouldn't be opposed to switching sides. Is there a mefi raiding party / safe house? Send me a mefimail if you want to meet up in game.
posted by tylermoody at 8:39 PM on November 9, 2008
The election stuff is pretty good. It really did play out like a fictional campaign. We have a black president; probably aliens will invade now.
posted by JHarris at 8:40 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by JHarris at 8:40 PM on November 9, 2008
I always wanted to get an All Flesh Must Be Eaten game off the ground but then I lost inspiration.
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:50 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:50 PM on November 9, 2008
I don't understand how a subgenre can take so many headshots and still not die
(I mean, look, I hope this guy's movie is awesome and makes him a lot of money and all, but holy shit, give it a rest already.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:01 PM on November 9, 2008
(I mean, look, I hope this guy's movie is awesome and makes him a lot of money and all, but holy shit, give it a rest already.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:01 PM on November 9, 2008
Charlie Brooker is my hero.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:20 PM on November 9, 2008
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:20 PM on November 9, 2008
Gladys was sitting in her comfy chair tending to her knitting when she heard a crash and a scream from the street outside.
"Edith!" yelled the 80-year old Gladys to her similarly aged housemate who was making tea in the kitchen. "Edith! What's all that noise outside?"
"It's just dem zombies again Gladys" came Edith's reply.
"Zombies? Again? But we just had a rash of them last week, dinnit we?"
"Yep" said Edith calmly, walking into the room with her cup of tea and a scone. "Seems like every second week we got something new with zombies. Wasn't like this in my day. Only one excellent zombie outbreak every few years or so. Now it's all zombie-this and zombie-that. Damn punk kids." Gladys continued to knit.
Putting her tea down on a coaster on the coffee table, Edith slowly hobbled her way over to the window behind Gladys' comfy chair to look at the brain eating horde terrorising the neighbourhood on the street. Frowning at the unholy horror, she sighed and said "Ah well. It'll be over in a week or so when the Gov'mint sends out the medicine. In the meantime, we'll be OK as long as we don't spill any blood in here."
Gladys was silent. Edith couldn't see it what with her back to her and all, but there was a look of alarm on Gladys' face, similar to a deer stuck in headlights.
Gladys had pricked her finger...
posted by Effigy2000 at 9:21 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Edith!" yelled the 80-year old Gladys to her similarly aged housemate who was making tea in the kitchen. "Edith! What's all that noise outside?"
"It's just dem zombies again Gladys" came Edith's reply.
"Zombies? Again? But we just had a rash of them last week, dinnit we?"
"Yep" said Edith calmly, walking into the room with her cup of tea and a scone. "Seems like every second week we got something new with zombies. Wasn't like this in my day. Only one excellent zombie outbreak every few years or so. Now it's all zombie-this and zombie-that. Damn punk kids." Gladys continued to knit.
Putting her tea down on a coaster on the coffee table, Edith slowly hobbled her way over to the window behind Gladys' comfy chair to look at the brain eating horde terrorising the neighbourhood on the street. Frowning at the unholy horror, she sighed and said "Ah well. It'll be over in a week or so when the Gov'mint sends out the medicine. In the meantime, we'll be OK as long as we don't spill any blood in here."
Gladys was silent. Edith couldn't see it what with her back to her and all, but there was a look of alarm on Gladys' face, similar to a deer stuck in headlights.
Gladys had pricked her finger...
posted by Effigy2000 at 9:21 PM on November 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
No, but the naked punk/goth/whatever girl dancing on the tombstone did indeed work.
Hear, hear. More of that, please.
posted by dammitjim at 10:26 PM on November 9, 2008
Hear, hear. More of that, please.
posted by dammitjim at 10:26 PM on November 9, 2008
I cede all authority on Zombies to the English. They know what zombies are and are not capable of because they induce zombification every evening from Thursday to Saturday and whenever they are vacation. Plus they watch Strictly Come Dancing.
posted by srboisvert at 12:35 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by srboisvert at 12:35 AM on November 10, 2008
Well srboisvert, a little known fact is that Bruce Forsyth in his later years actually inspired the movement of zombies in Shawn of the Dead. It was only when they showed him in his faster dancing days that the 28 Days Later zombie was developed.
posted by jaduncan at 1:35 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by jaduncan at 1:35 AM on November 10, 2008
Sorry to be a pedant but...
"...says Charlie Brooker,director writer of Deadset"
FWIW - I thought Dead Set was excellent. But too short. Ongoing zombie-survival series please, Charlie / E4 bosses!
posted by stumcg at 2:04 AM on November 10, 2008
"...says Charlie Brooker,
FWIW - I thought Dead Set was excellent. But too short. Ongoing zombie-survival series please, Charlie / E4 bosses!
posted by stumcg at 2:04 AM on November 10, 2008
I blame 28 Days Later, not just for running zombies, but for the awful symbolic equation of rabid behaviour and the menstrual cycle.
I don't get this. Could you provide examples?
posted by Summer at 2:39 AM on November 10, 2008
I don't get this. Could you provide examples?
posted by Summer at 2:39 AM on November 10, 2008
Twenty-Eight Days Later, and a movie about rage and blood. You think they weren't making a snide PMS joke? I suppose.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:49 AM on November 10, 2008
Twenty-Eight Days Later, and a movie about rage and blood. You think they weren't making a snide PMS joke? I suppose.
A whole film for a snide PMS joke? Er, no, not really.
posted by Summer at 3:35 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
A whole film for a snide PMS joke? Er, no, not really.
posted by Summer at 3:35 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Simon: your outright rejection of running zombies leaves you exposed, in a very real and damning sense, as a terrible racist.
This is funny.
posted by tiny crocodile at 3:56 AM on November 10, 2008
This is funny.
posted by tiny crocodile at 3:56 AM on November 10, 2008
As someone who freakin' LOVES zombies of all speeds, I must say I enjoyed "Shaun of the Dead" and "Dead Set".
Much, much, love to E4 for having the nads to put it on the air.
Think we'd see that on ABC, NBC or CBS?
Um, NO.
Can't we all just get along? Shamblers and runners unite!
Besides, when the apocalypse starts, head shots will still be the only thing that counts.
posted by willmize at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2008
Much, much, love to E4 for having the nads to put it on the air.
Think we'd see that on ABC, NBC or CBS?
Um, NO.
Can't we all just get along? Shamblers and runners unite!
Besides, when the apocalypse starts, head shots will still be the only thing that counts.
posted by willmize at 4:28 AM on November 10, 2008
Running zombies are, to be frank, cheaper than stumbling ones. You only need one or two to present a massive threat.
As someone who answered the call, stood in the line, got on the bus, sat in the traffic, arrived on the set, had corn syrup splashed and spread over his arms, face, hair and clothes, followed the third assistant director's directions, bummed around between takes, gave it his all when told to run past spurting corpses and fallen zombie comrades or shake that fence like an angry possum and then *didn't* complain that he wasn't paid for any of it because it was all bloody brilliant fun to be a zombie extra FOR FREE, I think Charlie could have had a seething mass of slow zombies and been profitable if he had charged us for the privilege of being on set and I don't doubt most of us would have coughed up... a lung or two.
posted by Molesome at 4:39 AM on November 10, 2008 [4 favorites]
As someone who answered the call, stood in the line, got on the bus, sat in the traffic, arrived on the set, had corn syrup splashed and spread over his arms, face, hair and clothes, followed the third assistant director's directions, bummed around between takes, gave it his all when told to run past spurting corpses and fallen zombie comrades or shake that fence like an angry possum and then *didn't* complain that he wasn't paid for any of it because it was all bloody brilliant fun to be a zombie extra FOR FREE, I think Charlie could have had a seething mass of slow zombies and been profitable if he had charged us for the privilege of being on set and I don't doubt most of us would have coughed up... a lung or two.
posted by Molesome at 4:39 AM on November 10, 2008 [4 favorites]
Witness the very first zombie in Night of the Living Dead, which moves at a fair old whack and even picks up a rock to try to smash a car window.
It was stumbling down the hill! Or slipped! Or whatever the argument is.
Or the two kiddywink zombies in Dawn of the Dead, who burst out of a room and run - yes run - towards Ken Foree
It was a sloping floor!
I love a huge mass of shambling undead as much as the next guy, but we couldn't afford that many crowd scenes.
I know Shaun got a lot of zombie free volunteer extras for at least one big crow scene. Don't know if there's Equity issues in using a lot of free labour.
For the record I really liked Dead Set until the final episode when I thought, in order to over-play the satire, it became a bit forced in its plotting.
By the sound of it - 'six months later' would have worked much better
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:56 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
It was stumbling down the hill! Or slipped! Or whatever the argument is.
Or the two kiddywink zombies in Dawn of the Dead, who burst out of a room and run - yes run - towards Ken Foree
It was a sloping floor!
I love a huge mass of shambling undead as much as the next guy, but we couldn't afford that many crowd scenes.
I know Shaun got a lot of zombie free volunteer extras for at least one big crow scene. Don't know if there's Equity issues in using a lot of free labour.
For the record I really liked Dead Set until the final episode when I thought, in order to over-play the satire, it became a bit forced in its plotting.
By the sound of it - 'six months later' would have worked much better
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:56 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
... though I'm probably wrong.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:59 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:59 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Having been a zombie in Dawn of the Dead, I can tell you for a fact, yes, we can run...
that is all...
posted by HuronBob at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2008
that is all...
posted by HuronBob at 5:30 AM on November 10, 2008
I know Shaun got a lot of zombie free volunteer extras for at least one big crow scene.
IIRC, many of the extras in the crowd were Spaced fans who'd been given the opportunity to show up, get some zombie makeup, and get on film for a minute or so. Pegg and Wright have been pretty cool to their fans.
That said, I think we can all agree that it's gravity what makes the zombies come after you quickly, so the best thing to do in the event of an invasion is to seek higher ground. This will also protect you against zombie dogs, for as Pegg has quite notably pointed out, they can't look up.
posted by Spatch at 5:34 AM on November 10, 2008
IIRC, many of the extras in the crowd were Spaced fans who'd been given the opportunity to show up, get some zombie makeup, and get on film for a minute or so. Pegg and Wright have been pretty cool to their fans.
That said, I think we can all agree that it's gravity what makes the zombies come after you quickly, so the best thing to do in the event of an invasion is to seek higher ground. This will also protect you against zombie dogs, for as Pegg has quite notably pointed out, they can't look up.
posted by Spatch at 5:34 AM on November 10, 2008
I'm not saying the film was made as a PMS joke, but the choice of title, quite possibly.
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:35 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:35 AM on November 10, 2008
Something I can get away from on a 10-speed bicycle is not horrifying in the least.
The whole point with old school zombies (in Romero films anyway) is that zombies, as a plague, are kinda rubbish. Sure they have the numbers and the tireless efficiency but mostly we all end up dying/zombifying because people don't work together. We tear each other apart, whether it's because we're clinging on to insitutions like family, military hierarchy, capitalism or religion. People join biker gangs, form execution squads, loot shopping centres, surrender to religion and work very, very hard on fucking each other over in the face of not-even-an-apocalypse.
The fast zombies and (rage infected) Londoners are actually a threat, so the downfall of mankind is a distinct possibility whether we pull together or not. Slow zombies aren't. That's the point of the original Dead trilogy: people are inherently incapable of working together and we are responsible for the eventual downfall of mankind, not an external factor in the form of a living dead plague.
And that's why I love 'em. It's people I don't like.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:29 AM on November 10, 2008 [17 favorites]
The whole point with old school zombies (in Romero films anyway) is that zombies, as a plague, are kinda rubbish. Sure they have the numbers and the tireless efficiency but mostly we all end up dying/zombifying because people don't work together. We tear each other apart, whether it's because we're clinging on to insitutions like family, military hierarchy, capitalism or religion. People join biker gangs, form execution squads, loot shopping centres, surrender to religion and work very, very hard on fucking each other over in the face of not-even-an-apocalypse.
The fast zombies and (rage infected) Londoners are actually a threat, so the downfall of mankind is a distinct possibility whether we pull together or not. Slow zombies aren't. That's the point of the original Dead trilogy: people are inherently incapable of working together and we are responsible for the eventual downfall of mankind, not an external factor in the form of a living dead plague.
And that's why I love 'em. It's people I don't like.
posted by slimepuppy at 6:29 AM on November 10, 2008 [17 favorites]
BrotherCaine: "I blame 28 Days Later"
The thing is that although they look a lot like zombies, the creatures in 28 Days Later were not. They were infected living humans and they could be killed through conventional means. What you should do is blame the 2004 Dawn of the Dead remake for transposing the idea to traditional zombies.
posted by Plutor at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2008
The thing is that although they look a lot like zombies, the creatures in 28 Days Later were not. They were infected living humans and they could be killed through conventional means. What you should do is blame the 2004 Dawn of the Dead remake for transposing the idea to traditional zombies.
posted by Plutor at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2008
Zombie movies became popular when we stopped knowing our neighbors names and participating in community building the way shows like Happy Daze idealize.
The people outside in our own personal bubbles become nameless homunculus shuffling around our space. And with the media constantly feeding us scare stories from cancer causing fruit to spontaneous acts of violence on the bus, we assign these others with malicious intent towards us.
But I've noticed as the scare stories on the news grow and we embrace a fear culture, the zombies in our stories and movies get faster, like a response. The greater the internal fear, the greater the external fear we imagine becomes.
Or something.
I like fast and slow zombies. One is horrible because of the mounting inevitable horror of no matter were you go or how fast you run, death will get you in the end. The other feels much more like helpless/hopelessness against uncontrollable change. Neat.
posted by FunkyHelix at 8:17 AM on November 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
The people outside in our own personal bubbles become nameless homunculus shuffling around our space. And with the media constantly feeding us scare stories from cancer causing fruit to spontaneous acts of violence on the bus, we assign these others with malicious intent towards us.
But I've noticed as the scare stories on the news grow and we embrace a fear culture, the zombies in our stories and movies get faster, like a response. The greater the internal fear, the greater the external fear we imagine becomes.
Or something.
I like fast and slow zombies. One is horrible because of the mounting inevitable horror of no matter were you go or how fast you run, death will get you in the end. The other feels much more like helpless/hopelessness against uncontrollable change. Neat.
posted by FunkyHelix at 8:17 AM on November 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Romero was the first to do running (non-)Zombies too, in The Crazies. I movie I've not seen since I was a kid... but judging from this my memories of its awesomeness were not invalid.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:19 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:19 AM on November 10, 2008
I like fast and slow zombies.
By coincidence I stumbled over, and spent most of yesterday, catching up with the web comic The Zombie Hunters that has both fast and slow zombies (as well as other types)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:21 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
By coincidence I stumbled over, and spent most of yesterday, catching up with the web comic The Zombie Hunters that has both fast and slow zombies (as well as other types)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:21 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Crazies is being remade. It's apparently going to be 'clever and smart'. Emphasis mine.
posted by slimepuppy at 8:30 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by slimepuppy at 8:30 AM on November 10, 2008
I'm still hoping for a remake of Zombi 3. Zombie chickens and zombie flying heads, now that's the way to fuck up with zombie-canon!
posted by Iosephus at 10:02 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by Iosephus at 10:02 AM on November 10, 2008
(reads article)
Bloody Hell, Simon Pegg is pretty brilliant. Keen!
Zombies don't run!
And dogs can't look up!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Bloody Hell, Simon Pegg is pretty brilliant. Keen!
Zombies don't run!
And dogs can't look up!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:26 AM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
I prefer the shamblers, personally. If you really want something fast and undead, you've got vampires.
posted by Amanojaku at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2008
posted by Amanojaku at 11:56 AM on November 10, 2008
The Crazies is being remade.
Oh dear. I fucking love that movie, but see no way in which this could be anything other than bad news.
posted by Artw at 12:22 PM on November 10, 2008
Oh dear. I fucking love that movie, but see no way in which this could be anything other than bad news.
posted by Artw at 12:22 PM on November 10, 2008
My god, theres a lot of hideous remake in that The Crazies article. Entire careers are being forged in unnescary remakes.
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on November 10, 2008
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on November 10, 2008
Put me in the Charlie Brooker is my hero category. His critical faculties, as displayed on Screen Wipe are just about second to... Well, only mine! Fnar.
And while I amwith Pegg as far as I tend to prefer shambling zombies, and Dawn was always my favourite zombie movie. But, it wouldn't have worked in this case, for the reasons Brooker mentions.
I also have issues with the fact that protagonists (not just people) only die in the classic zombie scenario due to their own stupidity. At which point I lose a lot of respect for the characters. 'Well, you fucking deserve to get eaten you TOOL!'
I also thought it a bit off for Pegg to comment on how it was alright that they ripped off Romero's zombies, as Romero was making a socio-political point, but that then having the fast zombies in Dead Set let it down. As if Dead Set doesn't say far more subtextually than Shaun of the Dead (which I love, but it's a sodding comedy).
posted by opsin at 1:38 PM on November 10, 2008
And while I amwith Pegg as far as I tend to prefer shambling zombies, and Dawn was always my favourite zombie movie. But, it wouldn't have worked in this case, for the reasons Brooker mentions.
I also have issues with the fact that protagonists (not just people) only die in the classic zombie scenario due to their own stupidity. At which point I lose a lot of respect for the characters. 'Well, you fucking deserve to get eaten you TOOL!'
I also thought it a bit off for Pegg to comment on how it was alright that they ripped off Romero's zombies, as Romero was making a socio-political point, but that then having the fast zombies in Dead Set let it down. As if Dead Set doesn't say far more subtextually than Shaun of the Dead (which I love, but it's a sodding comedy).
posted by opsin at 1:38 PM on November 10, 2008
Artw: Hows that US verison of Spaced coming along?
*points at Artw*
*shambles*
*groans*
posted by Pronoiac at 2:21 PM on November 10, 2008
*points at Artw*
*shambles*
*groans*
posted by Pronoiac at 2:21 PM on November 10, 2008
Zombie movies became popular when we stopped knowing our neighbors names and participating in community building the way shows like Happy Daze idealize.
The people outside in our own personal bubbles become nameless homunculus shuffling around our space . . .
posted by FunkyHelix at 11:17 AM on November 10
Zombie mythology really didn't evolve until the 20th century, though it has tenuous roots in earlier superstitions. Maybe the zombie is a reflection of the post-industrial loss of connection between human beings. When people lived in villages where everyone knew everyone and there was no television so that people talked to each other for entertainment everyone knew knew that the people that they saw everyday were people with opinions and feeling and hopes and dreams because they talked to these people and knew it. However, when everyone moved to the cities and lost their connections to each other, and the only people that they talked to were their spouse occasionally, and when they would see hundreds of people on their walk to work everyday, but not know anything about them, when they would see someone everyday but never have spoken to them, it became much easier to imagine that they were the only real people, surrounded by an army of faceless automatons. Suddenly people went from being surrounded by people that they knew intimately to being surrounded by people that they knew absolutely nothing about. An army of unspeaking, unfeeling, unthinking nonhumans. It must have been like being in a zombie movie. Zombies are merely the extension of the people that you see everyday, but have no connection to, and therefore no reason to think that they are actually real. We have seen the enemy, and he is us.
posted by ND¢ at 10:22 AM on February 16, 2007
Have you been consulting your notebook?
posted by ND¢ at 2:46 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
The people outside in our own personal bubbles become nameless homunculus shuffling around our space . . .
posted by FunkyHelix at 11:17 AM on November 10
Zombie mythology really didn't evolve until the 20th century, though it has tenuous roots in earlier superstitions. Maybe the zombie is a reflection of the post-industrial loss of connection between human beings. When people lived in villages where everyone knew everyone and there was no television so that people talked to each other for entertainment everyone knew knew that the people that they saw everyday were people with opinions and feeling and hopes and dreams because they talked to these people and knew it. However, when everyone moved to the cities and lost their connections to each other, and the only people that they talked to were their spouse occasionally, and when they would see hundreds of people on their walk to work everyday, but not know anything about them, when they would see someone everyday but never have spoken to them, it became much easier to imagine that they were the only real people, surrounded by an army of faceless automatons. Suddenly people went from being surrounded by people that they knew intimately to being surrounded by people that they knew absolutely nothing about. An army of unspeaking, unfeeling, unthinking nonhumans. It must have been like being in a zombie movie. Zombies are merely the extension of the people that you see everyday, but have no connection to, and therefore no reason to think that they are actually real. We have seen the enemy, and he is us.
posted by ND¢ at 10:22 AM on February 16, 2007
Have you been consulting your notebook?
posted by ND¢ at 2:46 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
HL2 did fast zombies right. Fast zombies should be considerably less common than normal zombies, and should only appear when the main characters start to take zombies for granted.
posted by Citizen Premier at 3:10 PM on November 10, 2008
posted by Citizen Premier at 3:10 PM on November 10, 2008
Ooooooooh! Another Dawn of the Dead zombie alumni!
Okay, back on target...
I must say I prefer slow zombies. Their very shuffling inexorable progress, their indifference to the environment, their single minded ability to ignore threats are all what make them scary to me.
OTOH, I have been playing the demo of Left4Dead, waiting for the release, and have found it quite enjoyable. In my opinion, they nailed the weird gait of the fast zombie.
Oh, and Witches suck.
posted by Samizdata at 3:21 PM on November 10, 2008
Okay, back on target...
I must say I prefer slow zombies. Their very shuffling inexorable progress, their indifference to the environment, their single minded ability to ignore threats are all what make them scary to me.
OTOH, I have been playing the demo of Left4Dead, waiting for the release, and have found it quite enjoyable. In my opinion, they nailed the weird gait of the fast zombie.
Oh, and Witches suck.
posted by Samizdata at 3:21 PM on November 10, 2008
opsin : As if Dead Set doesn't say far more subtextually than Shaun of the Dead (which I love, but it's a sodding comedy).
In its defense, it's also a movie that managed to make a scene centered around a fart joke, a poignant and honestly sentimental moment between two friends who were never going to see each other again.
A fart joke for fuck's sake! That is raw power in film form.
posted by quin at 3:45 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
In its defense, it's also a movie that managed to make a scene centered around a fart joke, a poignant and honestly sentimental moment between two friends who were never going to see each other again.
A fart joke for fuck's sake! That is raw power in film form.
posted by quin at 3:45 PM on November 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
I watched all of Dead Set last night and had gory zombie nightmares so job well done Charlie Brooker. Is Dead Set the goriest British programme ever?
posted by minifigs at 1:51 AM on November 11, 2008
posted by minifigs at 1:51 AM on November 11, 2008
I was a little surprised at the level of gore, which generally destroys my suspension of disbelief, as either it doesn't really look like viscera, or at least not like what I'd think viscera would look like.
Also, how hard is it to pour gasoline on a line of zombies all piled up against a fence anyway?
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:48 AM on November 11, 2008
Also, how hard is it to pour gasoline on a line of zombies all piled up against a fence anyway?
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:48 AM on November 11, 2008
Is Dead Set the goriest British programme ever?
Eastenders.
posted by slimepuppy at 5:11 AM on November 11, 2008
Eastenders.
posted by slimepuppy at 5:11 AM on November 11, 2008
Also, how hard is it to pour gasoline on a line of zombies all piled up against a fence anyway?
Fire Zombies!
... coz like a bit of charing is not really going to effect them, unless you are lucky and take out a tendon or something. I really think too much about this sort of shit.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:40 AM on November 11, 2008
Fire Zombies!
... coz like a bit of charing is not really going to effect them, unless you are lucky and take out a tendon or something. I really think too much about this sort of shit.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:40 AM on November 11, 2008
@slimepuppyThe whole point with old school zombies (in Romero films anyway) is ... kinda rubbish. Sure they have the numbers ... but mostly we all end up dying/zombifying because people don't work together.
NotLD is widely renown as a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement, with recalcitrant Southern racists depicted as zombies and progressives -- the black guy, the bachelorette and various other bunkered folks as the beleaguered folks under siege in that farmhouse. Of course, the original film ends by the 'liberals' all dying because no one in that house can't get along or pay attention to the advice of the black guy, who gets shot at the end.
There, the 'racists' are legion -- they are cannibals who want to consume every one and everything, tearing down all of civilization, if they must, in order to hold onto power and literally feed their impulses.
But the real issue here is that zombies have evolved significantly over the past 40 years -- at the time of NotLD, the few zombie pictures had been set on plantations and involved some kind of witchcraft -- think 'I Walked with a Zombie' and 'Jane Eyre'.
Only after NotLD have zombies become an omnipresent invading force; in Romero's original movie, the pace of the zombies was, itself something of a metaphor -- a slow, creeping pace of proglifate, outmoded ideas. They reperesent a sort of creeping known. The new, fast moving zombies, fast-moving, athletic, even, represent some new zeitgeist
During the '70s and '80's, the zombie mythology took on new forms beyond the Civil Rights-era form that Romero was playing to -- in the '70's it was more giallo-driven stuff, there for the shock-effect, rather than anything driven by any social cause.
In the '80's, it brought us John Carpenter's '.' -- alien invaders who only looked like zombies, but had invaded the Earth and successfully taken it over, but were driving all of the Reagan era conspicuous consumption.
Now, since Zach Snyder's remake, we have running, athletic zombies, that chiefly seem to exist to inspire fear. These zombies still represent some throng of unrestrained passion as in 28 Days Later, but they also lack the implicit critique of Carpenter's movie.
Personally, I find the fast zombies more interesting. More frightening, even.
posted by vhsiv at 8:13 AM on November 11, 2008
NotLD is widely renown as a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement, with recalcitrant Southern racists depicted as zombies and progressives -- the black guy, the bachelorette and various other bunkered folks as the beleaguered folks under siege in that farmhouse. Of course, the original film ends by the 'liberals' all dying because no one in that house can't get along or pay attention to the advice of the black guy, who gets shot at the end.
There, the 'racists' are legion -- they are cannibals who want to consume every one and everything, tearing down all of civilization, if they must, in order to hold onto power and literally feed their impulses.
But the real issue here is that zombies have evolved significantly over the past 40 years -- at the time of NotLD, the few zombie pictures had been set on plantations and involved some kind of witchcraft -- think 'I Walked with a Zombie' and 'Jane Eyre'.
Only after NotLD have zombies become an omnipresent invading force; in Romero's original movie, the pace of the zombies was, itself something of a metaphor -- a slow, creeping pace of proglifate, outmoded ideas. They reperesent a sort of creeping known. The new, fast moving zombies, fast-moving, athletic, even, represent some new zeitgeist
During the '70s and '80's, the zombie mythology took on new forms beyond the Civil Rights-era form that Romero was playing to -- in the '70's it was more giallo-driven stuff, there for the shock-effect, rather than anything driven by any social cause.
In the '80's, it brought us John Carpenter's '.' -- alien invaders who only looked like zombies, but had invaded the Earth and successfully taken it over, but were driving all of the Reagan era conspicuous consumption.
Now, since Zach Snyder's remake, we have running, athletic zombies, that chiefly seem to exist to inspire fear. These zombies still represent some throng of unrestrained passion as in 28 Days Later, but they also lack the implicit critique of Carpenter's movie.
Personally, I find the fast zombies more interesting. More frightening, even.
posted by vhsiv at 8:13 AM on November 11, 2008
fearfulsymmetry:
... coz like a bit of charing is not really going to effect them, unless you are lucky and take out a tendon or something.
I agree with you completely.
I really think too much about this sort of shit.
Aaand you just lost me.
posted by Pronoiac at 9:12 AM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, how hard is it to pour gasoline on a line of zombies all piled up against a fence anyway?Fire Zombies!
... coz like a bit of charing is not really going to effect them, unless you are lucky and take out a tendon or something.
I agree with you completely.
I really think too much about this sort of shit.
Aaand you just lost me.
posted by Pronoiac at 9:12 AM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
NotLD is widely renown as a metaphor for the Civil Rights movement
I've always felt that though the metaphor for the Civil Rights movement is an element within Night of the Living Dead, it was by far not the most prominent idea behind it. The film came out in 1968, a time of serious social upheaval in America. If I remember correctly, Romero actually heard about MLK's death as he was driving the finalised film to the distributor so any direct comparison between Ben's fate and the perceived fate of the Civil Rights movement was a coincidence.
If you look at the film as a whole it's simply unforgivingly brutal towards all the 'sacred' institutions, not just limited to the ideas of race:
Family. Harry and Helen Cooper are at each others throats throughout the entire movie. They hate each other. Helen says as much during the film. They are only together for their daughter Karen who's dying downstairs. She ends up turning into a zombie and devouring her own mother and then being shot to (re)death by Ben.
Note also that siblings don't fair much better: Barbra spends most of the movie in a catatonic state after seeing her brother 'killed' before running off to his undead arms and joining him in the same fate.
Love. The young couple end up dying together because one refuses to leave the other to their fate. Usually it's the young couple that walk off to the sunset in horror movies to (metaphorically at least) repopulate the earth.
Masculine power. Ben and Harry spend the entire movie at each other's throats not looking to compromise but to simply force their own opinions on survival. Their struggle for the rifle (what better metaphor for male power is there) is what causes the house to finally be compromised. Ben ends up shooting and killing Harry and then retreating to the cellar which was Harry's suggestion for a secure location from minute one. Also, the hero (the ultimate symbol of American masculinity) fucking dies at the end of the movie!
Science. The few NASA scientists that you see in the movie are quoted as saying, pretty much, 'we don't know what's going on.' They provide no causes or effective solutions to the outbreak.
Authority. Asides from the obvious murderous redneck posse at the end of the movie, the other authority figure is television that, like the scientist mentioned above, provides no solutions or rescue.
Religion. More of a stretch this one, but the entire movie kicks off at a cemetary where Barbra (not Barbara, btw, as most people like to remember) and Johnny are fulfilling an unwanted obligation to a dead relative. This causes Johnny to be killed and Barbra to simply survive slightly longer. (Religion plays a bigger role in Dawn of the Dead.)
I could go on...
Umm. Have I mentioned recently how much I love Night of the Living Dead?
posted by slimepuppy at 9:46 AM on November 11, 2008
I've always felt that though the metaphor for the Civil Rights movement is an element within Night of the Living Dead, it was by far not the most prominent idea behind it. The film came out in 1968, a time of serious social upheaval in America. If I remember correctly, Romero actually heard about MLK's death as he was driving the finalised film to the distributor so any direct comparison between Ben's fate and the perceived fate of the Civil Rights movement was a coincidence.
If you look at the film as a whole it's simply unforgivingly brutal towards all the 'sacred' institutions, not just limited to the ideas of race:
Family. Harry and Helen Cooper are at each others throats throughout the entire movie. They hate each other. Helen says as much during the film. They are only together for their daughter Karen who's dying downstairs. She ends up turning into a zombie and devouring her own mother and then being shot to (re)death by Ben.
Note also that siblings don't fair much better: Barbra spends most of the movie in a catatonic state after seeing her brother 'killed' before running off to his undead arms and joining him in the same fate.
Love. The young couple end up dying together because one refuses to leave the other to their fate. Usually it's the young couple that walk off to the sunset in horror movies to (metaphorically at least) repopulate the earth.
Masculine power. Ben and Harry spend the entire movie at each other's throats not looking to compromise but to simply force their own opinions on survival. Their struggle for the rifle (what better metaphor for male power is there) is what causes the house to finally be compromised. Ben ends up shooting and killing Harry and then retreating to the cellar which was Harry's suggestion for a secure location from minute one. Also, the hero (the ultimate symbol of American masculinity) fucking dies at the end of the movie!
Science. The few NASA scientists that you see in the movie are quoted as saying, pretty much, 'we don't know what's going on.' They provide no causes or effective solutions to the outbreak.
Authority. Asides from the obvious murderous redneck posse at the end of the movie, the other authority figure is television that, like the scientist mentioned above, provides no solutions or rescue.
Religion. More of a stretch this one, but the entire movie kicks off at a cemetary where Barbra (not Barbara, btw, as most people like to remember) and Johnny are fulfilling an unwanted obligation to a dead relative. This causes Johnny to be killed and Barbra to simply survive slightly longer. (Religion plays a bigger role in Dawn of the Dead.)
I could go on...
Umm. Have I mentioned recently how much I love Night of the Living Dead?
posted by slimepuppy at 9:46 AM on November 11, 2008
Thanks, slimepuppy! That was more of the kind of rigor I was hoping for, but I couldn't find other critics to latch onto but memory of the film isn't that acute.
Savini does a nice segue from a NASCAR-type event to a lynching, at the very end.
posted by vhsiv at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2008
Have I mentioned recently how much I love Night of the Living Dead?Have you seen the 1990 remake, the one directed by FX king Tom Savini, starring Tony Todd and Patricia Tallman?
Savini does a nice segue from a NASCAR-type event to a lynching, at the very end.
posted by vhsiv at 10:46 AM on November 11, 2008
Here's the segment at the very end of the 1990 version, better than I remember it.
(And they've got barbque!)
posted by vhsiv at 11:13 AM on November 11, 2008
(And they've got barbque!)
posted by vhsiv at 11:13 AM on November 11, 2008
Thank you for posting a Charlie Brooker article that wasn't posted with the sole purpose of pissing off Metafilter readers (previous posts have been him ranting about Macs, or aspects of internet culture - not particularly representative of his generally Mefi-compatible outlook).
posted by nthdegx at 12:43 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by nthdegx at 12:43 PM on November 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
vhsiv: Here's the segment at the very end of the 1990 version, better than I remember it.
Okay, I'm sure that's not "Jane Eyre."
posted by Pronoiac at 12:50 PM on November 11, 2008
Okay, I'm sure that's not "Jane Eyre."
posted by Pronoiac at 12:50 PM on November 11, 2008
Heh. That would be my first ever post you're talking about, IIRC.
posted by Artw at 12:52 PM on November 11, 2008
posted by Artw at 12:52 PM on November 11, 2008
@Pronoiac:
Jane Eyre was used as the basis for Val Lewton's 'I Walked with a Zombie' (1943) and 'Ritual' (2001) and the basis for for the filmization of Jean Rhys' 'Wide Sargasso Sea' (1993 &2006).
posted by vhsiv at 1:35 PM on November 11, 2008
Jane Eyre was used as the basis for Val Lewton's 'I Walked with a Zombie' (1943) and 'Ritual' (2001) and the basis for for the filmization of Jean Rhys' 'Wide Sargasso Sea' (1993 &2006).
posted by vhsiv at 1:35 PM on November 11, 2008
Yeah, vshic, I'm just recycling and paraphrasing my (surprisingly often quoted on metafilter) dissertation on the subject. Heh.
And yes, I own the 1990 version (which was completely approved by Romero and done simply to retain copyright of the name). I also own the 30th anniversary edition (ick), colourised edition and two copies of the original cut. I also have Dawn of the Dead (all three versions: Cannes, theatrical and Argento cut) and the remake. As for Day of the Dead, I have the original, the remake and Day of the Dead 2: Contagium (which is a reimagining, a prequel and a sequel!) And copies of Land of the Dead and Diary of the Dead (neither of which I rate with the original three.)
Now I just need to get my hands on the sequels to 'Zombi' which is what the Argento cut of Dawn was called in Europe... The chronology and weird connections between these movies are worthy of a dissertation of their own.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:30 PM on November 11, 2008
And yes, I own the 1990 version (which was completely approved by Romero and done simply to retain copyright of the name). I also own the 30th anniversary edition (ick), colourised edition and two copies of the original cut. I also have Dawn of the Dead (all three versions: Cannes, theatrical and Argento cut) and the remake. As for Day of the Dead, I have the original, the remake and Day of the Dead 2: Contagium (which is a reimagining, a prequel and a sequel!) And copies of Land of the Dead and Diary of the Dead (neither of which I rate with the original three.)
Now I just need to get my hands on the sequels to 'Zombi' which is what the Argento cut of Dawn was called in Europe... The chronology and weird connections between these movies are worthy of a dissertation of their own.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:30 PM on November 11, 2008
Sorry. vshiv, not vshic. Gah. It's late and I am full up on Italian food, cheap alcohol and Night of the Living Dead trivia.
posted by slimepuppy at 2:33 PM on November 11, 2008
posted by slimepuppy at 2:33 PM on November 11, 2008
Huh? Being used as a basis for something doesn't mean that it's in the derivatives' genre - Hamlet isn't a comedy about some hosers drinking beer, eh? So: Do Wide Sargasso Sea or Jane Eyre have shambling undead?
Zombies are serious business.
posted by Pronoiac at 3:16 PM on November 11, 2008
Zombies are serious business.
posted by Pronoiac at 3:16 PM on November 11, 2008
The Day of the Dead remake, which was not in any form like Day of the Dead whatsoever, and frankly sounds like an abomination, has a sequel? wow.
You must be very dedicated to your zombies to collect such things.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on November 11, 2008
You must be very dedicated to your zombies to collect such things.
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on November 11, 2008
I wonder if the fact that Zack Snyder is a soulless corporate dupe who wouldn’t recognize a subtext if one smashed through his barricades, dragged him out into the street and ate his brains is, in it’s own way, a kind of meta-subtext.
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on November 11, 2008
posted by Artw at 4:24 PM on November 11, 2008
"Heh. That would be my first ever post you're talking about, IIRC."
There've been a few.
posted by nthdegx at 9:27 AM on November 23, 2008
There've been a few.
posted by nthdegx at 9:27 AM on November 23, 2008
Actually I think the pubes one produced the best random freakouts.
Sometimes I think MetaFilter and certain kinds of humour are just incompatible.
posted by Artw at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2008
Sometimes I think MetaFilter and certain kinds of humour are just incompatible.
posted by Artw at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2008
« Older A House Built on Hope | Witty aphorisms in a delightfully rich ambiance! Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by BrotherCaine at 7:32 PM on November 9, 2008