Julie Fowlis
December 27, 2008 1:58 PM Subscribe
Sorry. I typed "minus British book dealers" into the posting perameters, but caps lock was on, so "minus" came out as "underscore".
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:32 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:32 PM on December 27, 2008
Turns out bland NPR alt-folk comes in other languages now. Whodathunkit?
posted by nasreddin at 2:33 PM on December 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by nasreddin at 2:33 PM on December 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
It's nice to happen upon new and wonderful discoveries. They don't happen to me often in the folk genre, and personally Ms. Fowlis music wasn't to my tastes, but it's nice to share. I felt the same way about the Braid sountrack when I first heard it, especially:
“Romanesca”, by Cheryl Ann Fulton, from the album The Once and Future Harp.
“Tell It By Heart” by Jami Sieber, from the album Second Sight. The intro reminds me of a bit of the Superman music, but it goes in a very dark direction.
“Maenam”, by Jami Sieber, from the album Hidden Sky.
I hope this isn't too much of a derail. If anyone else has folk recommendations I'd be eager to hear them!
posted by nthdegx at 2:37 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
“Romanesca”, by Cheryl Ann Fulton, from the album The Once and Future Harp.
“Tell It By Heart” by Jami Sieber, from the album Second Sight. The intro reminds me of a bit of the Superman music, but it goes in a very dark direction.
“Maenam”, by Jami Sieber, from the album Hidden Sky.
I hope this isn't too much of a derail. If anyone else has folk recommendations I'd be eager to hear them!
posted by nthdegx at 2:37 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Sublime! Had not heard her before either. Blissfully clean voice. Thanks for the enjoyment.
posted by nickyskye at 2:38 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by nickyskye at 2:38 PM on December 27, 2008
Did you have to inflict her on us?
"You'd need a cold heart indeed not to be touched by her music," Phil Selway, Radiohead, and 40 secs of other shameless flattery at intro
posted by terranova at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2008
"You'd need a cold heart indeed not to be touched by her music," Phil Selway, Radiohead, and 40 secs of other shameless flattery at intro
posted by terranova at 2:39 PM on December 27, 2008
Spooky! I was just putting the final touches on my Clannad FPP. I'm sure everyone here loves Clannad. Right?
...right?
posted by greenie2600 at 2:48 PM on December 27, 2008
...right?
posted by greenie2600 at 2:48 PM on December 27, 2008
The music is alright, the post is sort of GYOB.
posted by hermitosis at 2:49 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 2:49 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Hey! I like this.
Actual musicians without electronic crap and -- god save us all -- remixes and mashups and loops and racket.
posted by cccorlew at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Actual musicians without electronic crap and -- god save us all -- remixes and mashups and loops and racket.
posted by cccorlew at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
And there's a reason why I hadn't heard it.
And now I will politely forget her and search out some more unique,
interesting music.
posted by gcbv at 3:17 PM on December 27, 2008
And now I will politely forget her and search out some more unique,
interesting music.
posted by gcbv at 3:17 PM on December 27, 2008
I found it very pleasant.
Of course, she lacks the requisite rehab history and ass-antlers to appeal to the average MeFiter, but give her time.
posted by RavinDave at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2008
Of course, she lacks the requisite rehab history and ass-antlers to appeal to the average MeFiter, but give her time.
posted by RavinDave at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2008
MetaFilter: Your favorite bliss sucks.
posted by nickyskye at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by nickyskye at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Actual musicians without electronic crap and -- god save us all -- remixes and mashups and loops and racket."
I like X because it isn't Y! Fuck Y and the tarding horse it rode in on! In fact, anything remotely related to Y can burn in a bucket, and don't start me on people that typically like Y... what were we talking about, again?
posted by nthdegx at 3:28 PM on December 27, 2008 [6 favorites]
I like X because it isn't Y! Fuck Y and the tarding horse it rode in on! In fact, anything remotely related to Y can burn in a bucket, and don't start me on people that typically like Y... what were we talking about, again?
posted by nthdegx at 3:28 PM on December 27, 2008 [6 favorites]
Of course, she lacks the requisite rehab history and ass-antlers to appeal to the average MeFiter, but give her time.
Um, are you implying that the average MeFite likes mainstream pop music? Really?
posted by nasreddin at 3:32 PM on December 27, 2008
Um, are you implying that the average MeFite likes mainstream pop music? Really?
posted by nasreddin at 3:32 PM on December 27, 2008
From what I can tell the average MeFite doesn't like much of anything, and anything that does manage to pass muster is something that most people won't even have heard of.
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
I found it very pleasant.
Therein lies the problem (for me at least).
I don't want "pleasant."
I don't want "quaint"
I don't want "alt-{insert genre}
I want my ears to bleed
I want my face to melt
I want fear and apprehension
I want the sound coming off the stage to bend me over, send it home and not leave a phone number.
Those are just my personal preferences of course. I played in a band like this for a couple of years. We completely rocked the wine-tasting/art gallery opening circuit. Turning my amp up past 1, when we did have need to use one, was considered a hate-crime. The people were nice enough but I felt like our music was more appropriate for background music to sample drapery swatches. I played this thinking "Ok, so it's not like rocking a ZZ Top song but I'll get used to it" but I never was able to settle in.
I will forward this link to a couple of my Irish music loving friends (if they don't know about her already).
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Therein lies the problem (for me at least).
I don't want "pleasant."
I don't want "quaint"
I don't want "alt-{insert genre}
I want my ears to bleed
I want my face to melt
I want fear and apprehension
I want the sound coming off the stage to bend me over, send it home and not leave a phone number.
Those are just my personal preferences of course. I played in a band like this for a couple of years. We completely rocked the wine-tasting/art gallery opening circuit. Turning my amp up past 1, when we did have need to use one, was considered a hate-crime. The people were nice enough but I felt like our music was more appropriate for background music to sample drapery swatches. I played this thinking "Ok, so it's not like rocking a ZZ Top song but I'll get used to it" but I never was able to settle in.
I will forward this link to a couple of my Irish music loving friends (if they don't know about her already).
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
great stuff, I think I've found my new favourite artist.
posted by nam3d at 3:37 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by nam3d at 3:37 PM on December 27, 2008
This is the 2nd music-related post today that could have been good, but suffers from a certain lack of effort and GYOB-ishness. A super-cursory googling finds "an interesting WYNC interview that notes "Singer Julie Fowlis is among the one percent of her compatriots in North Uist, Scotland, who can speak Scottish Gaelic" and a short filmed interview on youtube. A personal discovery only makes a post if you flesh it out a bit, or otherwise it's just about you, you know?
Not just about you, wgp, just a grouse in general. I think music posts derail quickly into "this sucks" "no it doesn't" unless they're well-crafted. I found the music pretty, and I'd not heard of her either.
posted by donnagirl at 3:44 PM on December 27, 2008
Not just about you, wgp, just a grouse in general. I think music posts derail quickly into "this sucks" "no it doesn't" unless they're well-crafted. I found the music pretty, and I'd not heard of her either.
posted by donnagirl at 3:44 PM on December 27, 2008
I wish I had the foggiest idea what RavinDave meant, but I DO now know what "ass antlers" are (thank youuuu Urban Dictionary).
posted by katillathehun at 4:20 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by katillathehun at 4:20 PM on December 27, 2008
What a babe. What a voice.
posted by UseyurBrain at 5:09 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by UseyurBrain at 5:09 PM on December 27, 2008
I had not heard of Fresh Prince Death Metal until just now. However, I live in an apartment.
posted by not_on_display at 5:29 PM on December 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by not_on_display at 5:29 PM on December 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
*sigh
Had to look up ass antlers and find out what they look like.
posted by nickyskye at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2008
Had to look up ass antlers and find out what they look like.
posted by nickyskye at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2008
*sigh
Had to look up ass antlers and find out what they look like.
aka Tramp Stamp: "Fair or unfair, these tattoos have a socially constructed connotation associated with them. These women are labeled as tramps, whores, or other derogatory sexually promiscuous terms. Although these are often bias generalized claims, there have been sociological studies done by the American Psychological Association, Federal Bureau of Prisons, and other demographic researchers showing strong correlative evidence associating tattoos with high risk behavior, illegal substance abuse and sexual promiscuity..."
But not musical virtuosity?
posted by terranova at 5:57 PM on December 27, 2008
Had to look up ass antlers and find out what they look like.
aka Tramp Stamp: "Fair or unfair, these tattoos have a socially constructed connotation associated with them. These women are labeled as tramps, whores, or other derogatory sexually promiscuous terms. Although these are often bias generalized claims, there have been sociological studies done by the American Psychological Association, Federal Bureau of Prisons, and other demographic researchers showing strong correlative evidence associating tattoos with high risk behavior, illegal substance abuse and sexual promiscuity..."
But not musical virtuosity?
posted by terranova at 5:57 PM on December 27, 2008
well, i thought she did a lovely job of that paul mccartney song ... oh, fuck, now all the hipsters HAVE to hate her
posted by pyramid termite at 6:29 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:29 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Okay, I told myself I was going to leave this one alone, but now I've had four drinks, and as a certified GYOB post this isn't going anywhere anyway, and I'm the kind of guy who has nothing better to do on a Saturday night than to correct people who are Wrong on the Internet.
As a one-time wannabe musicology geek, I used to read a lot about musical psychology, physical theory of sound, and related topics. One book I had was written in the 60s by some embarrassingly out-of-touch fuddy-duddy who, in one particularly cranky passage, decried the use of distortion in the new-fangled rock-and-roll music of the time. Musical tones must be pure, he demanded! Any musical technique which had not been discovered by 1900 (and dissonance in particular) is a vulgar affront to the senses! These wild young men with their overdriven guitars were just a bunch of vile drug-crazed beasts, practicing a Satanic rite that had nothing to do with music proper! PERFECT SINE WAVES IN PERFECT HARMONIC RESONANCE ARE THE ONLY TRULY MUSICAL SOUND
And that, cccorlew, is exactly what you sound like to anyone born after 1969. If you contend that people who make music with instruments other than those of which you approve aren't actually musicians, you're a tool. (They scorned the piano as soulless mechanism when it was first invented, too.) If you think that all electronic music consists of wannabe superstar DJs cranking out loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats with their pirated copies of Acid, then you don't know the first thing about electronic music. (Though I sympathize with your weariness at the "mashup" meme, which is one of the more tragic intersections of hipsterdom and Apple Computer.) And if you don't realize that there were probably more electronics involved in the production of this young lady's album than there are in the average techno single, then you should probably just go back to wax cylinders and jug bands.
I found it very pleasant.
If all you ask of your music is that it's "pleasant", you are not asking enough of your music. It is possible for something that is "pleasant" to still be unadulterated dogshit, precisely because it's nothing but "pleasant". This kind of art does not offer any meaningful comment on the human experience, any more than the pastel wallpaper in your dentist's office does. Music which demands the attention of my senses, and offers nothing but cotton-candy froth in return, is noise—ironically, far more so than noise music.
And now I'm off to have my fifth drink.
posted by greenie2600 at 7:22 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
As a one-time wannabe musicology geek, I used to read a lot about musical psychology, physical theory of sound, and related topics. One book I had was written in the 60s by some embarrassingly out-of-touch fuddy-duddy who, in one particularly cranky passage, decried the use of distortion in the new-fangled rock-and-roll music of the time. Musical tones must be pure, he demanded! Any musical technique which had not been discovered by 1900 (and dissonance in particular) is a vulgar affront to the senses! These wild young men with their overdriven guitars were just a bunch of vile drug-crazed beasts, practicing a Satanic rite that had nothing to do with music proper! PERFECT SINE WAVES IN PERFECT HARMONIC RESONANCE ARE THE ONLY TRULY MUSICAL SOUND
And that, cccorlew, is exactly what you sound like to anyone born after 1969. If you contend that people who make music with instruments other than those of which you approve aren't actually musicians, you're a tool. (They scorned the piano as soulless mechanism when it was first invented, too.) If you think that all electronic music consists of wannabe superstar DJs cranking out loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats with their pirated copies of Acid, then you don't know the first thing about electronic music. (Though I sympathize with your weariness at the "mashup" meme, which is one of the more tragic intersections of hipsterdom and Apple Computer.) And if you don't realize that there were probably more electronics involved in the production of this young lady's album than there are in the average techno single, then you should probably just go back to wax cylinders and jug bands.
I found it very pleasant.
If all you ask of your music is that it's "pleasant", you are not asking enough of your music. It is possible for something that is "pleasant" to still be unadulterated dogshit, precisely because it's nothing but "pleasant". This kind of art does not offer any meaningful comment on the human experience, any more than the pastel wallpaper in your dentist's office does. Music which demands the attention of my senses, and offers nothing but cotton-candy froth in return, is noise—ironically, far more so than noise music.
And now I'm off to have my fifth drink.
posted by greenie2600 at 7:22 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Hmmmm ... wonder when "pleasant" became a pejorative.
By your metric, Sinatra -- or the late Eartha Kitt -- couldn't sing, since they made no great demand on the senses and cared little about commenting on the human condition. I guess I'm one of those guys who awards points for "ambiance"; putting you in a good frame of mind, chasing the blues away, turning Mr. Frown upside-down. If I want an essay on the human condition, I'll read Satre.
I don't mean to sound glib. I like the introspective and daring stuff too.
posted by RavinDave at 7:48 PM on December 27, 2008
By your metric, Sinatra -- or the late Eartha Kitt -- couldn't sing, since they made no great demand on the senses and cared little about commenting on the human condition. I guess I'm one of those guys who awards points for "ambiance"; putting you in a good frame of mind, chasing the blues away, turning Mr. Frown upside-down. If I want an essay on the human condition, I'll read Satre.
I don't mean to sound glib. I like the introspective and daring stuff too.
posted by RavinDave at 7:48 PM on December 27, 2008
This kind of art does not offer any meaningful comment on the human experience
... that you have the cultural background or the wit to percieve - i've checked out some of her more traditional songs on youtube, and yes, she does offer something valuable and genuine
posted by pyramid termite at 7:58 PM on December 27, 2008
... that you have the cultural background or the wit to percieve - i've checked out some of her more traditional songs on youtube, and yes, she does offer something valuable and genuine
posted by pyramid termite at 7:58 PM on December 27, 2008
A very nice voice, but . . . pleasant. I'm happy for the symbolic 'victory' for the Scottish Gaelic language that this singer represents. (Did the world need a Scottish Gaelic version of a Beatles song? Well, no.) I just don't hear any originality or real depth here, to be honest. A lotof folk music is pleasant in much the same way, but I reckon it works better when it mixes it up a bit, experiments, takes chances, reflects more of the human situation than just what can be contained within a sphere of quaint-sounding music.
Sometimes, an artist will come along and do something that bears only the slightest connection to "folk," but over the years sort of becomes a folk music, or ties into folk in ways that reveal themselves over decades. I think of the Young Marble Giants' small oeuvre in this regard.
Sometimes artists are a bit more direct in their approach, but still rely largely on the semiotics of the time to convey their artistic impulse, such as those great mid-60s Dylan regards or those post-debut Fairport Convention albums with Richard Thompson and Sandy Denny.
Occasionally, an artist comes along who's pretty firmly in the deep folk tradition, but colors outside the lines a bit, such as Karen Dalton (who covered contemporaneous soul songs alongside Child ballads) or Fred Neil, who mostly wrote originals and played around with "raga rock" on his Capitol label releases.
The one thing all three of these types of artists share is some blast of originality and unique approach. Sometimes it's in the arrangements or the song choice; often it's just the result of a God-given gift, like a voice or amazing musical ability. In any case, for all of them, a few hours spent absorbing their art can easily lead to a lifetime of passion for what they did.
Many artists attempt to succeed on one of these three levels. Few do.
There's a fourth type of artist, who - barring a misbegotten Beatles cover or something like that - is performing compositions in arrangements that might have existed unaltered a century or more ago. This is the toughest thing to pull off well. For me, the golden standard for this sort of thing is the Hungarian singer Márta Sebestyén. She's done a lot of things, but much of her work is representative of this "true" folk, and what makes it so captivating is her mind-bending phrasing, her utterly unique voice and musical accompaniment that remains true to its history without ever sounding perfunctory or . . . pleasant, exactly. I saw her perform live for the first time in the big Hungarian Catholic church in Cluj, Romania, this fall. She didn't sing as much as I would have liked, but I'm not exaggerating by saying that every time she opened her mouth for more than a second, the entire row of people I sat alongside started to cry - she was that good.
Julie Fowlis isn't even close to measuring up to any class of these artists. I applaud her attempts to do something outside the confines of "American Idol"-styled pap, but . . .
Of course, she lacks the requisite rehab history and ass-antlers to appeal to the average MeFiter, but give her time.
That's painting a pretty broad portrait of a group of people with hugely diverse musical interests; I think most criticism of Julie Fowlis is really towards the idea that she just doesn't have anything very original or interesting to express artistically (aisde from the "novelty" of her language.)
I can't support greenie2600's comment enough. Pleasantness has a role in music, for sure, but I don't see any reason why it should be the overriding emotional sensibility, nor have any part of music bigger than its real-life sharehold of human emotion.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:18 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Sometimes, an artist will come along and do something that bears only the slightest connection to "folk," but over the years sort of becomes a folk music, or ties into folk in ways that reveal themselves over decades. I think of the Young Marble Giants' small oeuvre in this regard.
Sometimes artists are a bit more direct in their approach, but still rely largely on the semiotics of the time to convey their artistic impulse, such as those great mid-60s Dylan regards or those post-debut Fairport Convention albums with Richard Thompson and Sandy Denny.
Occasionally, an artist comes along who's pretty firmly in the deep folk tradition, but colors outside the lines a bit, such as Karen Dalton (who covered contemporaneous soul songs alongside Child ballads) or Fred Neil, who mostly wrote originals and played around with "raga rock" on his Capitol label releases.
The one thing all three of these types of artists share is some blast of originality and unique approach. Sometimes it's in the arrangements or the song choice; often it's just the result of a God-given gift, like a voice or amazing musical ability. In any case, for all of them, a few hours spent absorbing their art can easily lead to a lifetime of passion for what they did.
Many artists attempt to succeed on one of these three levels. Few do.
There's a fourth type of artist, who - barring a misbegotten Beatles cover or something like that - is performing compositions in arrangements that might have existed unaltered a century or more ago. This is the toughest thing to pull off well. For me, the golden standard for this sort of thing is the Hungarian singer Márta Sebestyén. She's done a lot of things, but much of her work is representative of this "true" folk, and what makes it so captivating is her mind-bending phrasing, her utterly unique voice and musical accompaniment that remains true to its history without ever sounding perfunctory or . . . pleasant, exactly. I saw her perform live for the first time in the big Hungarian Catholic church in Cluj, Romania, this fall. She didn't sing as much as I would have liked, but I'm not exaggerating by saying that every time she opened her mouth for more than a second, the entire row of people I sat alongside started to cry - she was that good.
Julie Fowlis isn't even close to measuring up to any class of these artists. I applaud her attempts to do something outside the confines of "American Idol"-styled pap, but . . .
Of course, she lacks the requisite rehab history and ass-antlers to appeal to the average MeFiter, but give her time.
That's painting a pretty broad portrait of a group of people with hugely diverse musical interests; I think most criticism of Julie Fowlis is really towards the idea that she just doesn't have anything very original or interesting to express artistically (aisde from the "novelty" of her language.)
I can't support greenie2600's comment enough. Pleasantness has a role in music, for sure, but I don't see any reason why it should be the overriding emotional sensibility, nor have any part of music bigger than its real-life sharehold of human emotion.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:18 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you think that all electronic music consists of wannabe superstar DJs cranking out loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats with their pirated copies of Acid, then you don't know the first thing about electronic music.
Damn right. The truly obnoxious, derivative, quarter-note-quantized stuff is produced with pirated copies of Ableton.
posted by kid ichorous at 8:20 PM on December 27, 2008
Damn right. The truly obnoxious, derivative, quarter-note-quantized stuff is produced with pirated copies of Ableton.
posted by kid ichorous at 8:20 PM on December 27, 2008
That's painting a pretty broad portrait of a group of people with hugely diverse musical interests; I think most criticism of Julie Fowlis is really towards the idea that she just doesn't have anything very original or interesting to express artistically (aisde from the "novelty" of her language.)
and, you know, the songs she grew up hearing and utterly banal, mundane stuff like that - oh, and i'm sure the only reason the people around her spoke gaelic is because of some self-conscious wish to be trendy and "novel"
look, we can't all grow up around chain saw wielding serial killers in tractor factories like merzbow did - by the way, there's a platewasher at my workplace that can outdo him any damn day of the week
Pleasantness has a role in music, for sure, but I don't see any reason why it should be the overriding emotional sensibility
i don't see why any musician should be judged on the basis of some anonymous random person on the net describing them as "pleasant"
you know she's got something going on when the self-anointed arbiters of musical taste try this hard to convince people that she's just "pleasant" - if she was merely "pleasant", she wouldn't threaten your aesthetic theory nearly as much
posted by pyramid termite at 8:38 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
and, you know, the songs she grew up hearing and utterly banal, mundane stuff like that - oh, and i'm sure the only reason the people around her spoke gaelic is because of some self-conscious wish to be trendy and "novel"
look, we can't all grow up around chain saw wielding serial killers in tractor factories like merzbow did - by the way, there's a platewasher at my workplace that can outdo him any damn day of the week
Pleasantness has a role in music, for sure, but I don't see any reason why it should be the overriding emotional sensibility
i don't see why any musician should be judged on the basis of some anonymous random person on the net describing them as "pleasant"
you know she's got something going on when the self-anointed arbiters of musical taste try this hard to convince people that she's just "pleasant" - if she was merely "pleasant", she wouldn't threaten your aesthetic theory nearly as much
posted by pyramid termite at 8:38 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
you know she's got something going on when the self-anointed arbiters of musical taste try this hard to convince people that she's just "pleasant" - if she was merely "pleasant", she wouldn't threaten your aesthetic theory nearly as much
Yep. Just like Mannheim Steamroller threatens my "aesthetic theory"--very edgy of them. Are you trying out for the Self-Parody Olympics?
posted by nasreddin at 8:57 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yep. Just like Mannheim Steamroller threatens my "aesthetic theory"--very edgy of them. Are you trying out for the Self-Parody Olympics?
posted by nasreddin at 8:57 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Are you trying out for the Self-Parody Olympics?
are you trying out for the blue meanies in the remake of yellow submarine?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:02 PM on December 27, 2008
are you trying out for the blue meanies in the remake of yellow submarine?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:02 PM on December 27, 2008
music will never be free until the last critic is strangled with the entrails of the last hipster
posted by pyramid termite at 9:08 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:08 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
music will never be free until the last critic is strangled with the entrails of the last hipster
Making fun of hipsters? Very impressive! I'll give you a 9.8. Come on, as long as you stay in character you've got a great shot at the gold medal.
posted by nasreddin at 9:11 PM on December 27, 2008
Making fun of hipsters? Very impressive! I'll give you a 9.8. Come on, as long as you stay in character you've got a great shot at the gold medal.
posted by nasreddin at 9:11 PM on December 27, 2008
so, i guess this is the part where i become overwhelmed by the depth and brilliance of the music analysis that you've deigned to give me, right?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:30 PM on December 27, 2008
posted by pyramid termite at 9:30 PM on December 27, 2008
And it was then that proponent and detractor alike found themselves victims of a tinker pickpocket troupe from County Offaly.
posted by kid ichorous at 9:45 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by kid ichorous at 9:45 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
oh, i'm sorry, let's play some dance music
posted by pyramid termite at 9:53 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:53 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
psst.. even Pleasanter Music here (self-link)
posted by not_on_display at 10:03 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by not_on_display at 10:03 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
and, you know, the songs she grew up hearing and utterly banal, mundane stuff like that - oh, and i'm sure the only reason the people around her spoke gaelic is because of some self-conscious wish to be trendy and "novel"
I sing the songs I grew up with, and if you heard them, perhaps you'd think these Bosnian-language songs were novel, too. For the simple reason that if you're American, you've probably never heard sevdalinke sung by a native Bosnian girl . . . just like many Americans haven't heard songs sung in Scottish Gaelic.
You can keep looking for reasons to snark, but like Julie Fowlis, my workmanlike skills wouldn't offer most thinking music fans much to get excited about, other than (perhaps) the novelty of my songs' origins. Like Julie Fowlis, I simply don't have a particularly unique or outstanding talent.
Presenting the songs one grew up with in competent fashion isn't artistry; often it is banal and mundane. The message I wrote - like all of the messages here - was written for the mostly English-speaking members of MeFi, thus the novelty is for listeners here, not for Ms. Fowlis' fellow Scottish Gaelic speakers. This seems obvious to me upon rereading, but it may be my fault in not being more articulate - English is my fifth language.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:34 PM on December 27, 2008
I sing the songs I grew up with, and if you heard them, perhaps you'd think these Bosnian-language songs were novel, too. For the simple reason that if you're American, you've probably never heard sevdalinke sung by a native Bosnian girl . . . just like many Americans haven't heard songs sung in Scottish Gaelic.
You can keep looking for reasons to snark, but like Julie Fowlis, my workmanlike skills wouldn't offer most thinking music fans much to get excited about, other than (perhaps) the novelty of my songs' origins. Like Julie Fowlis, I simply don't have a particularly unique or outstanding talent.
Presenting the songs one grew up with in competent fashion isn't artistry; often it is banal and mundane. The message I wrote - like all of the messages here - was written for the mostly English-speaking members of MeFi, thus the novelty is for listeners here, not for Ms. Fowlis' fellow Scottish Gaelic speakers. This seems obvious to me upon rereading, but it may be my fault in not being more articulate - English is my fifth language.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:34 PM on December 27, 2008
White people sure do make shitty music. Except for rock and roll, because we invented that.
posted by bardic at 10:39 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by bardic at 10:39 PM on December 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Mr. Padraigin: "what've you got over there?"
me: "It's 'blackbird' sung in scottish gaelic by a super hot chick."
Mr. Padraigin: "Always a fan of that".
posted by padraigin at 10:49 PM on December 27, 2008
me: "It's 'blackbird' sung in scottish gaelic by a super hot chick."
Mr. Padraigin: "Always a fan of that".
posted by padraigin at 10:49 PM on December 27, 2008
i don't see why any musician should be judged on the basis of some anonymous random person on the net describing them as "pleasant"
Well on what basis should a musician be judged? Criticism is an active part of the cycle of artistic creation. I get that, nearly all artistically successful artists get that. Art is give and take, why is that a problem for you when clearly articulated?
if she was merely "pleasant", she wouldn't threaten your aesthetic theory nearly as much
People who've responded to Fowlis as "pleasant" may very well have a point. That's certainly how I hear her. And it's nothing hipsterish or anti-McCartney to opine that if one's going to tackle as obvious a new-folk cliché as covering "Blackbird," you'd better have the raw talent or brilliant arranging skills to pull it off in a way that overrides the novelty of simply singing it in Scottish Gaelic. Unfortunately, the fact that Fowlis doesn't goes a long way to making the language switch feel simply like a novelty. I'm a Bosnian refugee who hasn't been here *that* long, but I've heard a million covers of the song, in at least ten languages. Outside spectacularly unusual performances, it's about a bland choice of a cover as one could make, and this is something that is reinforced by the fairly benign character of the rest of Fowlis' oeuvre.
As nasreddin points out via his Mannheim Steamroller comment, sometimes "pleasant" simply means "bland." Bland artists can (and do) exist outside of the defense of dubious aesthetic theories, a fact which your statement would seem to disallow.
If she were playing up the block, I'd probably go see her. She's got a nice voice, I know enough about various European folk musics to imagine we would have a nice chat. But she's not up the block, she's pretty far from nearly all of us on MeFi, so the obvious response to such a post is going to be whether the artist lives expectations one *should* have of a MeFi post. For many of us, she's lacking enough OOMPH that several of us felt it reasonable to say so here.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:54 PM on December 27, 2008
Well on what basis should a musician be judged? Criticism is an active part of the cycle of artistic creation. I get that, nearly all artistically successful artists get that. Art is give and take, why is that a problem for you when clearly articulated?
if she was merely "pleasant", she wouldn't threaten your aesthetic theory nearly as much
People who've responded to Fowlis as "pleasant" may very well have a point. That's certainly how I hear her. And it's nothing hipsterish or anti-McCartney to opine that if one's going to tackle as obvious a new-folk cliché as covering "Blackbird," you'd better have the raw talent or brilliant arranging skills to pull it off in a way that overrides the novelty of simply singing it in Scottish Gaelic. Unfortunately, the fact that Fowlis doesn't goes a long way to making the language switch feel simply like a novelty. I'm a Bosnian refugee who hasn't been here *that* long, but I've heard a million covers of the song, in at least ten languages. Outside spectacularly unusual performances, it's about a bland choice of a cover as one could make, and this is something that is reinforced by the fairly benign character of the rest of Fowlis' oeuvre.
As nasreddin points out via his Mannheim Steamroller comment, sometimes "pleasant" simply means "bland." Bland artists can (and do) exist outside of the defense of dubious aesthetic theories, a fact which your statement would seem to disallow.
If she were playing up the block, I'd probably go see her. She's got a nice voice, I know enough about various European folk musics to imagine we would have a nice chat. But she's not up the block, she's pretty far from nearly all of us on MeFi, so the obvious response to such a post is going to be whether the artist lives expectations one *should* have of a MeFi post. For many of us, she's lacking enough OOMPH that several of us felt it reasonable to say so here.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 10:54 PM on December 27, 2008
Obligatory gg allin on Jerry Springer youtube link.
posted by bardic at 11:01 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by bardic at 11:01 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
By your metric, Sinatra -- or the late Eartha Kitt -- couldn't sing, since they made no great demand on the senses and cared little about commenting on the human condition.
Straw man. I never said anything about whether or not anyone could sing (which is a technical, not artistic, matter). I was only talking about whether the art is shit or not. In the case of Sinatra, it's shit. I don't know Kitt, so I can't comment.
I mean, Thomas Kinkade can paint, in the sense that he can render whatever scene he imagines with great precision and control. It's just that the scenes he chooses to render are fucking shitty.
posted by greenie2600 at 11:11 PM on December 27, 2008
Straw man. I never said anything about whether or not anyone could sing (which is a technical, not artistic, matter). I was only talking about whether the art is shit or not. In the case of Sinatra, it's shit. I don't know Kitt, so I can't comment.
I mean, Thomas Kinkade can paint, in the sense that he can render whatever scene he imagines with great precision and control. It's just that the scenes he chooses to render are fucking shitty.
posted by greenie2600 at 11:11 PM on December 27, 2008
I was only talking about whether the art is shit or not. In the case of Sinatra, it's shit.
i just erased a long comment to someone else after i read this little gem
you little threadshitting trolls have won - have at it guys and hopefully no one's going to do this in a thread about something you like
let it all out - the "pleasant" must DIE
posted by pyramid termite at 11:41 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
i just erased a long comment to someone else after i read this little gem
you little threadshitting trolls have won - have at it guys and hopefully no one's going to do this in a thread about something you like
let it all out - the "pleasant" must DIE
posted by pyramid termite at 11:41 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
pyramid termite, just so you know, I started ignoring your comments completely about two weeks ago. If you don't have enough respect for me to punctuate (let alone to formulate non-passive-aggressive arguments), then I don't have enough respect for you to read it.
THE MUSIC I LIKED WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN IS OBJECTIVELY THE BEST MUSIC IN THE UNIVERSE
YOU ALL LOSE
posted by greenie2600 at 11:51 PM on December 27, 2008
THE MUSIC I LIKED WHEN I WAS SEVENTEEN IS OBJECTIVELY THE BEST MUSIC IN THE UNIVERSE
YOU ALL LOSE
posted by greenie2600 at 11:51 PM on December 27, 2008
The music is alright, the post is sort of GYOB.
Too many GYOB's aren't able to practice their love with women all across the country.
Oh, and I like my music like I like my women.
Unpleasant.
posted by mazola at 12:13 AM on December 28, 2008
Too many GYOB's aren't able to practice their love with women all across the country.
Oh, and I like my music like I like my women.
Unpleasant.
posted by mazola at 12:13 AM on December 28, 2008
I tried very hard to like this, given my propensity for exotic-sounding female singer-songwriters, but failed. I have a pretty good handle on a friend's musical tastes, and he likes even squishier, girlier stuff than I, and I don't think even he'd buy into this. Just to try harder, I clicked around on some of her other YouTube links, listened, and then paused clips. I found I was unable to retain any sense of what I had been listening to.
I think the word "pleasant" isn't quite on the mark; it's more that this music is inoffensive and unmemorable. I'm aware that music was going on, and that it could not only be tuned to the background with ease, but that I could almost not summon it close enough to my attention for it to register anything beyond "female, different language, not particularly fast."
This could very well be the musical equivalent of that perfect assassin who blends into crowds and is never identified because of a lack of anything distinguishing about him.
posted by adipocere at 12:52 AM on December 28, 2008
I think the word "pleasant" isn't quite on the mark; it's more that this music is inoffensive and unmemorable. I'm aware that music was going on, and that it could not only be tuned to the background with ease, but that I could almost not summon it close enough to my attention for it to register anything beyond "female, different language, not particularly fast."
This could very well be the musical equivalent of that perfect assassin who blends into crowds and is never identified because of a lack of anything distinguishing about him.
posted by adipocere at 12:52 AM on December 28, 2008
I think part of the "immemorable" quality people find in this music might be due to the relatively spare orchestration. Spanish Renaissance music, English lute music, and various monophonic early music also have the same property, and it comes from constructing music in deference to (rather than in contrast with) the lone human voice.
Remember too that the modern ear is fed a steady diet of compression and limiting, and is trained to hear, out of all the possible shapes and whispers of sound, only the cliff and the horizon. Anything which doesn't come on in the flatline aggression of 40 point headline is easily dismissed as so much gray on gray newspaper print.
posted by kid ichorous at 1:54 AM on December 28, 2008
Remember too that the modern ear is fed a steady diet of compression and limiting, and is trained to hear, out of all the possible shapes and whispers of sound, only the cliff and the horizon. Anything which doesn't come on in the flatline aggression of 40 point headline is easily dismissed as so much gray on gray newspaper print.
posted by kid ichorous at 1:54 AM on December 28, 2008
hopefully no one's going to do this in a thread about something you like
You should learn to take the internet less seriously.
posted by bardic at 2:05 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
You should learn to take the internet less seriously.
posted by bardic at 2:05 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why not consider music you don't like yet an offer? The fact that someone clearly likes this music, while I do not, makes each of us more distinct.
There is no need to take offense at art you don't want, unless someone is demanding you experience it instead of the kind you do want
I am a huge Merzbow fan myself, and I guess I know enough about him to make a good fpp, but I am guessing 2% of the people visiting the site would be able to listen to one of his tracks beginning to end at a normal volume. Masami Akita and Julie Fowlis each come from a culture that evolved over time and gives context and a vantage point for giving meaning to their work. It just so happens that her frame of reference is better known and more widely appreciated than his.
on preview: kid ichorous, I would consider every music to have its own list of "gray on gray" qualities. In rock this can include the metric variation, often the tonal content, and more and more often the dynamics. As another example, in classical music timbre and rhythm are often notably monotonous or injudiciously used. My theory is that listening to any style of music is a separate skill from listening to any other kind. Like with languages, the more you pick up the easier it is to pick up new ones, but the wrong set of criteria will make any music seem worthless, just like listening to Portuguese and expecting French gets you gibberish.
Also, aside, I find the relativity of affect in musical performance amusing. A folk song from the seventeenth century can sing about malice and revenge and torture in the sweetest tone, while newer music growls and roars like a psychopath foaming at the mouth in rage while getting his hand smashed with a sledgehammer while screaming about having a crush on a barrista.
posted by idiopath at 2:21 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
There is no need to take offense at art you don't want, unless someone is demanding you experience it instead of the kind you do want
I am a huge Merzbow fan myself, and I guess I know enough about him to make a good fpp, but I am guessing 2% of the people visiting the site would be able to listen to one of his tracks beginning to end at a normal volume. Masami Akita and Julie Fowlis each come from a culture that evolved over time and gives context and a vantage point for giving meaning to their work. It just so happens that her frame of reference is better known and more widely appreciated than his.
on preview: kid ichorous, I would consider every music to have its own list of "gray on gray" qualities. In rock this can include the metric variation, often the tonal content, and more and more often the dynamics. As another example, in classical music timbre and rhythm are often notably monotonous or injudiciously used. My theory is that listening to any style of music is a separate skill from listening to any other kind. Like with languages, the more you pick up the easier it is to pick up new ones, but the wrong set of criteria will make any music seem worthless, just like listening to Portuguese and expecting French gets you gibberish.
Also, aside, I find the relativity of affect in musical performance amusing. A folk song from the seventeenth century can sing about malice and revenge and torture in the sweetest tone, while newer music growls and roars like a psychopath foaming at the mouth in rage while getting his hand smashed with a sledgehammer while screaming about having a crush on a barrista.
posted by idiopath at 2:21 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've been to several Julie Fowlis gigs. They were fantastic. The musicianship and lovely singing combined to give a really tight, enjoyable performance.
her spoke gaelic is because of some self-conscious wish to be trendy and "novel"
Gaelic is her first language. She doesn't sing fashionable, angst-ridden indie shite. The songs she sings (apart from Blackbird, which she was requested to sing by a music magazine to go on a disc of Beatles covers) are all songs passed down in her native Uist in the oral tradition. She is ensuring the songs continue to be heard, rather than lost forever.
So yeah, your favourite band is shit, too.
posted by idiomatika at 4:29 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
her spoke gaelic is because of some self-conscious wish to be trendy and "novel"
Gaelic is her first language. She doesn't sing fashionable, angst-ridden indie shite. The songs she sings (apart from Blackbird, which she was requested to sing by a music magazine to go on a disc of Beatles covers) are all songs passed down in her native Uist in the oral tradition. She is ensuring the songs continue to be heard, rather than lost forever.
So yeah, your favourite band is shit, too.
posted by idiomatika at 4:29 AM on December 28, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sweet Jesus there are some self-important music shits in here. "Pleasant music sucks! Frank Sinatra is shit! Art needs to be a meaningful comment on the human experience all the time!"
Are you people this way about food? "Things that taste nice are bad! I only eat wasabi sorbet and thousand year eggs! Hot chocolate is shit!"
Art serves a lot of different purposes, and no art can be all things to all people, nor should it. Sometimes it's just carrying on a particular tradition, even if it's not particularity "innovative," which is an overrated quantity anyway.
posted by Snyder at 7:31 AM on December 28, 2008 [4 favorites]
Are you people this way about food? "Things that taste nice are bad! I only eat wasabi sorbet and thousand year eggs! Hot chocolate is shit!"
Art serves a lot of different purposes, and no art can be all things to all people, nor should it. Sometimes it's just carrying on a particular tradition, even if it's not particularity "innovative," which is an overrated quantity anyway.
posted by Snyder at 7:31 AM on December 28, 2008 [4 favorites]
Some of you know it's ok to like music like this and face-melty music right? I worked in record stores for nearly 10 years before I was forced to get a real job, and that in tandem with the internet, file sharing, and posts like this helped me to round out my rather FANTASTIC music taste. Which means I can love Julie Fowlis and still enjoy Tool or MSI or whatever.
I do enjoy the flameouts though.
posted by Bageena at 7:56 AM on December 28, 2008
I do enjoy the flameouts though.
posted by Bageena at 7:56 AM on December 28, 2008
pyramid termite, just so you know, I started ignoring your comments completely about two weeks ago
i suppose i'd better acknowledge this, otherwise you'll have to keep telling me, won't you?
---
Sweet Jesus there are some self-important music shits in here.
sure are - one of them even thinks she's just like julie, except for little things like having a recording contract, winning awards and getting people world wide to listen to songs in a language only 60,000 people speak - now that's arrogance
eventually they'll figure out that they have to define their view of art by what they like, not what they dislike - maybe ...
---
My theory is that listening to any style of music is a separate skill from listening to any other kind.
very much so and i think the current dramatic, highly overwrought styles of music have desensitized some to the point where they aren't able to appreciate something subtle that demands some effort on the part of the listener
---
She is ensuring the songs continue to be heard, rather than lost forever.
that alone is a great service to art - but that's not egotistical enough - excuse me, i mean original enough to suit some people
it's fascinating to me to hear waulking songs right after i finished looking through carmichael's carmina gadelica last week
"Tall Hugh, son of Archibald the Clerk,
Where thou liest down, arise not whole!
May the news of thy death reach the women of Sleat,
May thy entrails be in the tail of thy shirt,
And may I have my share in it!"
that's a sample for those who seem to have the odd idea that this is a tame tradition full of "pleasant" music
posted by pyramid termite at 8:07 AM on December 28, 2008
i suppose i'd better acknowledge this, otherwise you'll have to keep telling me, won't you?
---
Sweet Jesus there are some self-important music shits in here.
sure are - one of them even thinks she's just like julie, except for little things like having a recording contract, winning awards and getting people world wide to listen to songs in a language only 60,000 people speak - now that's arrogance
eventually they'll figure out that they have to define their view of art by what they like, not what they dislike - maybe ...
---
My theory is that listening to any style of music is a separate skill from listening to any other kind.
very much so and i think the current dramatic, highly overwrought styles of music have desensitized some to the point where they aren't able to appreciate something subtle that demands some effort on the part of the listener
---
She is ensuring the songs continue to be heard, rather than lost forever.
that alone is a great service to art - but that's not egotistical enough - excuse me, i mean original enough to suit some people
it's fascinating to me to hear waulking songs right after i finished looking through carmichael's carmina gadelica last week
"Tall Hugh, son of Archibald the Clerk,
Where thou liest down, arise not whole!
May the news of thy death reach the women of Sleat,
May thy entrails be in the tail of thy shirt,
And may I have my share in it!"
that's a sample for those who seem to have the odd idea that this is a tame tradition full of "pleasant" music
posted by pyramid termite at 8:07 AM on December 28, 2008
...If you contend that people who make music with instruments other than those of which you approve aren't actually musicians, you're a tool. (They scorned the piano as soulless mechanism when it was first invented, too.) If you think that all electronic music consists of wannabe superstar DJs cranking out loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats with their pirated copies of Acid, then you don't know the first thing about electronic music....
Yes, I find that electronic music sounds a lot like "loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats" but that's only in the pieces that bother with a beat.
But that wasn't my point.
I find magic in music that someone could walk into my house and play, without a turntable, or a computer, or 16 miles of cable. I admit I'm more moved by notes and rhythms than by electronic beeps.
That said, I do realize that it's just my taste, which brings me to this request.
Somewhere in Metafilter land, perhaps on the green, or the sidebar, or and answer on the blue, some music scholar Metafite posted the a wonderful, insightful comment about all music being valid. I failed to favorite it, but it reverberates in my head. I needs to be reposted or referenced here. If anyone can direct me to that post I'll hush up about loops and such and slink back into mt wooden music cave.
posted by cccorlew at 9:01 AM on December 28, 2008
Yes, I find that electronic music sounds a lot like "loop-based cookie-cutter block-rockin' beats" but that's only in the pieces that bother with a beat.
But that wasn't my point.
I find magic in music that someone could walk into my house and play, without a turntable, or a computer, or 16 miles of cable. I admit I'm more moved by notes and rhythms than by electronic beeps.
That said, I do realize that it's just my taste, which brings me to this request.
Somewhere in Metafilter land, perhaps on the green, or the sidebar, or and answer on the blue, some music scholar Metafite posted the a wonderful, insightful comment about all music being valid. I failed to favorite it, but it reverberates in my head. I needs to be reposted or referenced here. If anyone can direct me to that post I'll hush up about loops and such and slink back into mt wooden music cave.
posted by cccorlew at 9:01 AM on December 28, 2008
I want my ears to bleed
I want my face to melt
I want fear and apprehension
I want the sound coming off the stage to bend me over, send it home and not leave a phone number.
Personally, I find the universe of music to be larger than that of mere violence, rape and terror.
posted by DU at 4:52 AM on December 29, 2008
I want my face to melt
I want fear and apprehension
I want the sound coming off the stage to bend me over, send it home and not leave a phone number.
Personally, I find the universe of music to be larger than that of mere violence, rape and terror.
posted by DU at 4:52 AM on December 29, 2008
White people sure do make shitty music.
Yeah, they sure do.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:28 AM on December 29, 2008
Yeah, they sure do.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:28 AM on December 29, 2008
That last one has megaliters of hat.
posted by kid ichorous at 5:38 AM on December 29, 2008
posted by kid ichorous at 5:38 AM on December 29, 2008
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posted by fire&wings at 2:18 PM on December 27, 2008 [1 favorite]