Poena par sapientia
March 4, 2009 9:45 PM Subscribe
John C. Odom, the minor league baseball player made famous last year for being traded for ten bats, has met a tragic end.
K
posted by schyler523 at 9:55 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by schyler523 at 9:55 PM on March 4, 2009
Wow. That's really sad.
posted by brundlefly at 9:55 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by brundlefly at 9:55 PM on March 4, 2009
No kidding. It all sounds funny, and you're like "Where not actually selling him, just ending his contract."
But seriously, his contract was ended for 10 inanimate objects that could not replace him, and required more people. That's like any one cubical dweller being fired to bring on 10 new keyboards that have to be used by other people. Oh, but then that office firing makes the New York Times.
Dickheads.
posted by Science! at 9:57 PM on March 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
But seriously, his contract was ended for 10 inanimate objects that could not replace him, and required more people. That's like any one cubical dweller being fired to bring on 10 new keyboards that have to be used by other people. Oh, but then that office firing makes the New York Times.
Dickheads.
posted by Science! at 9:57 PM on March 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
Heartbreaking.
posted by ornate insect at 9:57 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by ornate insect at 9:57 PM on March 4, 2009
Sorry, I'm sucking at spelling and grammar. Point being this is stupid, cruel and needlessly public.
posted by Science! at 9:58 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by Science! at 9:58 PM on March 4, 2009
.
posted by joe lisboa at 10:00 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by joe lisboa at 10:00 PM on March 4, 2009
.
It probably would've been better if they'd just found a way to cut him.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:00 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
It probably would've been better if they'd just found a way to cut him.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:00 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Guy was a musician, too. Played the guitar well, according to the article in the last link.
Life is fucking cruel sometimes, ain't it?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:03 PM on March 4, 2009 [7 favorites]
Life is fucking cruel sometimes, ain't it?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:03 PM on March 4, 2009 [7 favorites]
I'd bet this smug-looking guy is feeling pretty shitty about now.
posted by MegoSteve at 10:06 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by MegoSteve at 10:06 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
and needlessly public. again I suck. The trade, however they justified it was a shitty thing to make public.
posted by Science! at 10:08 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by Science! at 10:08 PM on March 4, 2009
I would chastise him for being a pro-athlete, but it turns out I am a human, and this is sad.
posted by IvoShandor at 10:16 PM on March 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by IvoShandor at 10:16 PM on March 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
Jesus, poor kid.
I'd bet this smug-looking guy is feeling pretty shitty about now.
Hunh, he used to be the TV sportsguy in my neck of the woods long ago. Always seemed like a shitheel - between this bit and some comments about his minor league dealings on this message board, it appears that 9 year old me's assessment wasn't too far off.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:21 PM on March 4, 2009
I'd bet this smug-looking guy is feeling pretty shitty about now.
Hunh, he used to be the TV sportsguy in my neck of the woods long ago. Always seemed like a shitheel - between this bit and some comments about his minor league dealings on this message board, it appears that 9 year old me's assessment wasn't too far off.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:21 PM on March 4, 2009
"I was shocked," he said. "Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me."
Well, um, then you weren't shocked, were you?
People are insanely insensitive towards other human beings sometimes. That trade really was one of those times.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:25 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, um, then you weren't shocked, were you?
People are insanely insensitive towards other human beings sometimes. That trade really was one of those times.
posted by miss lynnster at 10:25 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't blame this on life being cruel.
This was not done as a publicity stunt, said Peter Young, who arranged the Odom-for-bats trade.
Of course it was a publicity stunt. We could have forgiven you if you'd just said you thought it seemed funny at the time. Don't lie about the dead.
"I talked to John several times and told him this wasn't done to embarrass him."
Of course not. It was done with callous indifference to the embarrassment it caused him. Notice in the article that the poor kid couldn't get work elsewhere as a ballplayer. It was either become batboy or quit.
It sounds as though Odom had been suffering from depression for a long time -- I suppose that much is life being cruel. Kudos to his manager for noticing that he was falling apart and trying to protect him, although it's a pity that help came much too late.
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posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:31 PM on March 4, 2009
This was not done as a publicity stunt, said Peter Young, who arranged the Odom-for-bats trade.
Of course it was a publicity stunt. We could have forgiven you if you'd just said you thought it seemed funny at the time. Don't lie about the dead.
"I talked to John several times and told him this wasn't done to embarrass him."
Of course not. It was done with callous indifference to the embarrassment it caused him. Notice in the article that the poor kid couldn't get work elsewhere as a ballplayer. It was either become batboy or quit.
It sounds as though Odom had been suffering from depression for a long time -- I suppose that much is life being cruel. Kudos to his manager for noticing that he was falling apart and trying to protect him, although it's a pity that help came much too late.
.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:31 PM on March 4, 2009
Yeah, this is messed up. If you wanted to pull a publicity stunt like this you need to get the right person for it, a willing volunteer.
Someone who would relish the pop culture value of such a thing and use it to grab 15 minutes of fame and a book deal or something.
You can't just pick some guy who is trying to live his dream and play baseball.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:46 PM on March 4, 2009
Someone who would relish the pop culture value of such a thing and use it to grab 15 minutes of fame and a book deal or something.
You can't just pick some guy who is trying to live his dream and play baseball.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:46 PM on March 4, 2009
I expect very little from pro sports and it never disappoints me.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:46 PM on March 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:46 PM on March 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Don't blame this on life being cruel
In Buddhism, the four noble truths are:
a) there is suffering (i.e. life is, at its essence, cruel)
b) there is a cause to the suffering
c) there is an end to, or cessation of, suffering
d) there is a path to that end
In general, the Buddhist path is one of overcoming life's inherent and essential cruelty through meditative awakening and ethical self-discipline. Thus from this perspective everything that occurs in the world (all the becoming of being) is in some sense a manifestation of suffering. That we do not always experience this suffering directly does not negate that it is there.
posted by ornate insect at 10:54 PM on March 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
In Buddhism, the four noble truths are:
a) there is suffering (i.e. life is, at its essence, cruel)
b) there is a cause to the suffering
c) there is an end to, or cessation of, suffering
d) there is a path to that end
In general, the Buddhist path is one of overcoming life's inherent and essential cruelty through meditative awakening and ethical self-discipline. Thus from this perspective everything that occurs in the world (all the becoming of being) is in some sense a manifestation of suffering. That we do not always experience this suffering directly does not negate that it is there.
posted by ornate insect at 10:54 PM on March 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
Don't blame this on life being cruel.
I think it's generally understood that often, when we say "life is cruel", what we mean is that people in life are cruel, no? That they often act in a cruel manner to their fellow human beings. Anyway, that's what I often mean when I say "life is cruel".
It was done with callous indifference to the embarrassment it caused him.
Such callous indifference is something that I consider cruelty.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:59 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think it's generally understood that often, when we say "life is cruel", what we mean is that people in life are cruel, no? That they often act in a cruel manner to their fellow human beings. Anyway, that's what I often mean when I say "life is cruel".
It was done with callous indifference to the embarrassment it caused him.
Such callous indifference is something that I consider cruelty.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:59 PM on March 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
The funny thing is, had this been a cash deal, and the kid kills himself, it doesn't even make ESPN Ocho. You might argue that being traded for the bats is the reason he killed himself, but I don't think it was (nor do I think anyone can really say for certain why he did).
Major League Baseball is a system that is designed to break your spirit. For every guy who makes it to the bigs, there are 100 guys who languish in AAA, hoping to get that one more hit per week to get on some scout's radar. For every guy playing in AAA, there are 100 guys in AA who are either on their way up the ladder, or on the way down the ladder. For every guy in AA, there are 100 guys in high- and low-A ball who are either fresh out of college, or are playing ball just so they don't have to go work flipping burgers.
It is a hard, hard sport for both body and soul, and it is extremely quirky. That the Cy Young winner from last year crashed on this guy's couch in single-A tells you how odd this game can be sometimes.
posted by mark242 at 11:01 PM on March 4, 2009 [7 favorites]
Major League Baseball is a system that is designed to break your spirit. For every guy who makes it to the bigs, there are 100 guys who languish in AAA, hoping to get that one more hit per week to get on some scout's radar. For every guy playing in AAA, there are 100 guys in AA who are either on their way up the ladder, or on the way down the ladder. For every guy in AA, there are 100 guys in high- and low-A ball who are either fresh out of college, or are playing ball just so they don't have to go work flipping burgers.
It is a hard, hard sport for both body and soul, and it is extremely quirky. That the Cy Young winner from last year crashed on this guy's couch in single-A tells you how odd this game can be sometimes.
posted by mark242 at 11:01 PM on March 4, 2009 [7 favorites]
A life was destroyed, but a profit was made! Hooray for the American way!
posted by orthogonality at 11:42 PM on March 4, 2009
posted by orthogonality at 11:42 PM on March 4, 2009
Tragic is indeed the right word. Poor guy.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:04 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:04 AM on March 5, 2009
For every guy who makes it to the bigs,
At 30 teams with 40 man rosters, that's 1200 players.
there are 100 guys who languish in AAA, hoping to get that one more hit per week to get on some scout's radar.
For every one of those 1200 players there are 100 scrambling for time at bat on AAA teams. With 120000 players working across 30 AAA teams, that's 4000 players a team. With every one of these hungry, desperate men brandishing a bat, the stadium looks like a post-apocalyptic clown car.
For every guy playing in AAA, there are 100 guys in AA who are either on their way up the ladder, or on the way down the ladder.
Twelve million men at present are nominally hired to play baseball on farm teams but overcrowding in the ranks has turned the AA teams into slaughter houses. As layer after layer of player is dropped onto the field from close formation bomber aircraft, those brave and lucky few who escaped fatal trauma on impact or drowning in slippery crimson gore are tasked with clawing over the corpses of fallen teammates to ladders at the sides of the diamond. Here the real test of baseball mettle is to be found as entrail-slicked pinstriped gladiators dig their cleats into the flesh of comrade and nemesis alike to summit the ladders. The winners get to knock the ladders over and move on to the AAA, the the losers have their skin harvested for leather for mitts and balls, their flesh for hot dogs.
For every guy in AA, there are 100 guys in high- and low-A ball who are either fresh out of college, or are playing ball just so they don't have to go work flipping burgers.
1.2 billion people in the world hoping for 1200 spots?! Fuck, I don't blame them for taking steroids with that kind of competition.
posted by bunnytricks at 12:09 AM on March 5, 2009 [59 favorites]
At 30 teams with 40 man rosters, that's 1200 players.
there are 100 guys who languish in AAA, hoping to get that one more hit per week to get on some scout's radar.
For every one of those 1200 players there are 100 scrambling for time at bat on AAA teams. With 120000 players working across 30 AAA teams, that's 4000 players a team. With every one of these hungry, desperate men brandishing a bat, the stadium looks like a post-apocalyptic clown car.
For every guy playing in AAA, there are 100 guys in AA who are either on their way up the ladder, or on the way down the ladder.
Twelve million men at present are nominally hired to play baseball on farm teams but overcrowding in the ranks has turned the AA teams into slaughter houses. As layer after layer of player is dropped onto the field from close formation bomber aircraft, those brave and lucky few who escaped fatal trauma on impact or drowning in slippery crimson gore are tasked with clawing over the corpses of fallen teammates to ladders at the sides of the diamond. Here the real test of baseball mettle is to be found as entrail-slicked pinstriped gladiators dig their cleats into the flesh of comrade and nemesis alike to summit the ladders. The winners get to knock the ladders over and move on to the AAA, the the losers have their skin harvested for leather for mitts and balls, their flesh for hot dogs.
For every guy in AA, there are 100 guys in high- and low-A ball who are either fresh out of college, or are playing ball just so they don't have to go work flipping burgers.
1.2 billion people in the world hoping for 1200 spots?! Fuck, I don't blame them for taking steroids with that kind of competition.
posted by bunnytricks at 12:09 AM on March 5, 2009 [59 favorites]
A life was destroyed, but a profit was made! Hooray for the American way!
The team that traded him was in Calgary.
posted by maledictory at 12:20 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The team that traded him was in Calgary.
posted by maledictory at 12:20 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Odom is not an unknown name in pro sports. John "Blue Moon" Odom was a big league pitcher perhaps most notably with the Oakland A's in the late 1960s. Lamar Odom is currently a Los Angeles Laker. Did anyone ask if the late John C. Odom is related?
posted by Cranberry at 12:23 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by Cranberry at 12:23 AM on March 5, 2009
The Vipers planned to auction them for charity. When Ripley's Believe it or Not! heard about the trade, it offered $10,000 to the team's children's charity.
So the bats are now stored away at a warehouse in Orlando, Fla.
"We're still hoping to create an exhibit around them," said Tim O'Brien of Ripley's. "It would still attract a lot of interest."
Now that's just not cool.
posted by Xere at 12:33 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
So the bats are now stored away at a warehouse in Orlando, Fla.
"We're still hoping to create an exhibit around them," said Tim O'Brien of Ripley's. "It would still attract a lot of interest."
Now that's just not cool.
posted by Xere at 12:33 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
People using this as a way to trash sports, the people involved, etc., Didja read the NYT link? Do you have any knowledge of minor-league baseball, especially the low-levels?
The guy had said he was okay with it, appreciated the exposure, etc. I saw another article that touched on his more recently having alcohol problems "again."
As people have noted, minor-league ball is often a severe grind, the guy had a couple serious operations, faced a dim future in the sport and darn sure comes across as having had nasty demons before this happened.
Fair enough that people involved may--may--have known that the guy was a mess, very likely to not respond well to the bat-related publicity, but it's not clear if that was the case. If people did know, sure, they shoulda done the deal for the $$ equivalent of the bats.
By the way, this has happened before--and minor-league teams are especially hungry for/creative in generating publicity.
A local team traded a player for 100 pounds of catfish. I wrote about this for the local newspaper. I saw the catfish. I ate some of it. They brought along someone in a catfish suit.
The player involved said it was one of the funniest experiences of his life (and came across like he meant it), wanted copies of the article to share with friends and family.
posted by ambient2 at 1:51 AM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
The guy had said he was okay with it, appreciated the exposure, etc. I saw another article that touched on his more recently having alcohol problems "again."
As people have noted, minor-league ball is often a severe grind, the guy had a couple serious operations, faced a dim future in the sport and darn sure comes across as having had nasty demons before this happened.
Fair enough that people involved may--may--have known that the guy was a mess, very likely to not respond well to the bat-related publicity, but it's not clear if that was the case. If people did know, sure, they shoulda done the deal for the $$ equivalent of the bats.
By the way, this has happened before--and minor-league teams are especially hungry for/creative in generating publicity.
A local team traded a player for 100 pounds of catfish. I wrote about this for the local newspaper. I saw the catfish. I ate some of it. They brought along someone in a catfish suit.
The player involved said it was one of the funniest experiences of his life (and came across like he meant it), wanted copies of the article to share with friends and family.
posted by ambient2 at 1:51 AM on March 5, 2009 [3 favorites]
I dunno. This guy's story is sad, but my impression is that a lot of jocks who don't make it to the big leagues land on their feet by getting jobs with former jock buddies. Usually in real estate or a car dealership. And they do just fine. It's probably a tough transition, but it doesn't have to be horrible.
posted by bardic at 1:52 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by bardic at 1:52 AM on March 5, 2009
Shoot the cockface umps who would taunt him.
If you're an ump or ref or judge of any sort you have no business messing with competitor's headspaces...
plus they're all fat fucks anyways...
sorry for all the cursing, but this story made me really mad, then really sad.
RIP bro.
posted by dawdle at 2:08 AM on March 5, 2009
If you're an ump or ref or judge of any sort you have no business messing with competitor's headspaces...
plus they're all fat fucks anyways...
sorry for all the cursing, but this story made me really mad, then really sad.
RIP bro.
posted by dawdle at 2:08 AM on March 5, 2009
A life was destroyed, but a profit was made! Hooray for the American way!
The team that traded him was in Calgary.
Like he said, the American way!
[CALGARY-IST]
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:15 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
The team that traded him was in Calgary.
Like he said, the American way!
[CALGARY-IST]
posted by Lemurrhea at 2:15 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Am i the only one thinking he probably went through his entire school life being called "John Condom" and that this might have had a tiny bit to do with his substance abuse problems?
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:33 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:33 AM on March 5, 2009
bunnytricks: For every one of those 1200 players there are 100 scrambling for time at bat on AAA teams. With 120000 players working across 30 AAA teams, that's 4000 players a team. With every one of these hungry, desperate men brandishing a bat, the stadium looks like a post-apocalyptic clown car.
Well, I don't think most people actually did the math, they just figured he was trying to make a point. Your point is a valid one. The numbers were not strictly correct, but the "Yeah, and one guy-in-a-hundred is trying to..." is a fairly common use of the language. Your point stands, but every time some guy says his girl is "one-in-a-million" I don't pitch a fit and tell him that it really means that only has maybe 30 girls to choose from given the population of wherever he lives.
ambient2: People using this as a way to trash sports, the people involved, etc.
I agree. Not that I'm not one not to indulge in knee-jerk trashing of professional sports when things like this come up, but they did seem to do what I would expect from people who run sports teams. From all reports, the guy did seem to be going down hill a bit. I don't blame them for letting him go. -- The way they did it is a little wrong. Tragic? Yes. Cruel? I dunno. -- They had a guy on their hands, spiraling downward, by all appearances. -- I really can't blame them for trying to get rid of him. (That list of drugs he was apparently doing when he offed himself? W.T.F?) That said, I'm guessing by the articles that this guy had major aptitude, a history of depression, and a pretty major drug/alcohol habit. Tragic? Sure. But not enough that I would blame some guy's boss for wanting him fired the umpteenth time he shows up unable to perform after some bender.
And this is competitive sports. Isn't that the nature of the game? If you can't hack it, leave. Tragic? Yes. The very nature of competitive sports? No.
posted by Avelwood at 2:54 AM on March 5, 2009
Well, I don't think most people actually did the math, they just figured he was trying to make a point. Your point is a valid one. The numbers were not strictly correct, but the "Yeah, and one guy-in-a-hundred is trying to..." is a fairly common use of the language. Your point stands, but every time some guy says his girl is "one-in-a-million" I don't pitch a fit and tell him that it really means that only has maybe 30 girls to choose from given the population of wherever he lives.
ambient2: People using this as a way to trash sports, the people involved, etc.
I agree. Not that I'm not one not to indulge in knee-jerk trashing of professional sports when things like this come up, but they did seem to do what I would expect from people who run sports teams. From all reports, the guy did seem to be going down hill a bit. I don't blame them for letting him go. -- The way they did it is a little wrong. Tragic? Yes. Cruel? I dunno. -- They had a guy on their hands, spiraling downward, by all appearances. -- I really can't blame them for trying to get rid of him. (That list of drugs he was apparently doing when he offed himself? W.T.F?) That said, I'm guessing by the articles that this guy had major aptitude, a history of depression, and a pretty major drug/alcohol habit. Tragic? Sure. But not enough that I would blame some guy's boss for wanting him fired the umpteenth time he shows up unable to perform after some bender.
And this is competitive sports. Isn't that the nature of the game? If you can't hack it, leave. Tragic? Yes. The very nature of competitive sports? No.
posted by Avelwood at 2:54 AM on March 5, 2009
(That list of drugs he was apparently doing when he offed himself? W.T.F?)
Who said he committed suicide? I'd be more inclined to think he took some uppers, then took some downers to deal with the comedown, but combining heroin with alcohol increases the risk of OD by about ten million percent. No strong reason to second-guess the medical examiner's ruling that it was accidental.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:05 AM on March 5, 2009
Who said he committed suicide? I'd be more inclined to think he took some uppers, then took some downers to deal with the comedown, but combining heroin with alcohol increases the risk of OD by about ten million percent. No strong reason to second-guess the medical examiner's ruling that it was accidental.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:05 AM on March 5, 2009
Who said he committed suicide? I'd be more inclined to think he took some uppers, then took some downers to deal with the comedown, but combining heroin with alcohol increases the risk of OD by about ten million percent. No strong reason to second-guess the medical examiner's ruling that it was accidental.
Okay, fair point. To clarify, I wasn't implying by "suicide" that there was some intention to the action; only that he was largely to blame. No on else offed the guy. I don't know, and doubt that he did, stuff a needle in his his arm and down a bunch of pills with the intention of dying; not many people do.
I only meant to say that this was a path he put himself onto. Tragic as that is... (And I can really can appreciate how tragic that is... Don't misunderstand me. I can't say I don't feel for what he went through.)
posted by Avelwood at 3:19 AM on March 5, 2009
Okay, fair point. To clarify, I wasn't implying by "suicide" that there was some intention to the action; only that he was largely to blame. No on else offed the guy. I don't know, and doubt that he did, stuff a needle in his his arm and down a bunch of pills with the intention of dying; not many people do.
I only meant to say that this was a path he put himself onto. Tragic as that is... (And I can really can appreciate how tragic that is... Don't misunderstand me. I can't say I don't feel for what he went through.)
posted by Avelwood at 3:19 AM on March 5, 2009
Fair points, Avelwood; the world and the sports world could do with at least a little more human decency, awareness, knowledge, willingness to reduce profits by .01 percent to treat people a bit better.
For good or ill, potentially as points to illuminate broader issues, the nature of these stories will generate more attention than someone struggling professionally and personally at Target--as a cashier or a mgr. in their corporate office--and being treated like a piece of Kleenex. Oh by the way, the "treated like a piece of Kleenex" line stuck in my head after a Sr. HR person at Netflix related the most common frustration expressed in exit interviews there.
One potential difference 'tween the Netflixes, Target HQ jobs of this world and smaller operations, and between major-league teams and the tiny ones: health insurance (much as a lotta people say a lotta insurance companies have gutted coverage for mental-health problems and substance-abuse programs), employee-assistance programs, etc.
These things aside, seems we don't know what help if any some person or people tried to provide to this guy, as part of what could be argued is their job or as an act of personal caring and kindness, as he was coming apart.
Maybe the realities are such that the moral of the story is, realistically, some people are beyond hope or close. (Seems like there's a not-trivial number of situations where people have received a vast measure of diverse kinds of help and still cratered.)
Maybe it's that there is a need and value for greater programs that amount to hospitalization for people with serious mental and/or substance-abuse problems.
Maybe it's just a matter of people thinking, "When in doubt, reach out at least a little and try to help someone you know who's having a hard time."
Said someone who had to walk away after trying a lot to help a friend of many years who reached a point of drinking 3.5 liters of scotch per week.
posted by ambient2 at 3:37 AM on March 5, 2009
For good or ill, potentially as points to illuminate broader issues, the nature of these stories will generate more attention than someone struggling professionally and personally at Target--as a cashier or a mgr. in their corporate office--and being treated like a piece of Kleenex. Oh by the way, the "treated like a piece of Kleenex" line stuck in my head after a Sr. HR person at Netflix related the most common frustration expressed in exit interviews there.
One potential difference 'tween the Netflixes, Target HQ jobs of this world and smaller operations, and between major-league teams and the tiny ones: health insurance (much as a lotta people say a lotta insurance companies have gutted coverage for mental-health problems and substance-abuse programs), employee-assistance programs, etc.
These things aside, seems we don't know what help if any some person or people tried to provide to this guy, as part of what could be argued is their job or as an act of personal caring and kindness, as he was coming apart.
Maybe the realities are such that the moral of the story is, realistically, some people are beyond hope or close. (Seems like there's a not-trivial number of situations where people have received a vast measure of diverse kinds of help and still cratered.)
Maybe it's that there is a need and value for greater programs that amount to hospitalization for people with serious mental and/or substance-abuse problems.
Maybe it's just a matter of people thinking, "When in doubt, reach out at least a little and try to help someone you know who's having a hard time."
Said someone who had to walk away after trying a lot to help a friend of many years who reached a point of drinking 3.5 liters of scotch per week.
posted by ambient2 at 3:37 AM on March 5, 2009
gotta say - the dude had a freakin' sweet tattoo.
some of us learn from our pain. and a few? pain pulls under, like a dark wave.
posted by lapolla at 3:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
some of us learn from our pain. and a few? pain pulls under, like a dark wave.
posted by lapolla at 3:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Weird. He and I went to the same college at the same time. I might've had a class with the guy. Hrm.
posted by grubi at 4:06 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by grubi at 4:06 AM on March 5, 2009
Fair points, Avelwood; the world and the sports world could do with at least a little more human decency, awareness, knowledge, willingness to reduce profits by .01 percent to treat people a bit better.
No, I agree. I support the point you made wholly.The very competitive world of competitive sports, that we fund, that we support, pays to see people with amazing talents perform.
I wouldn't hold McDonald's too responsible for firing the Down's Syndrome guy who showed up every day and tried to throw hamburger patties everywhere after he kept doing it for months. But I would think it an act of kindness (and appreciate the fact that a gigantic corporate empire like McDonald's did so) if they tried to transfer him to another store or find him a new job; instead of outright showing him the the door; even if it came out in the press that one manager did this as a favor to another manager. (And this is largely what happened with this case it seems.) As cruel as firing them may seem, it would still be a finding-an-act-of-kindness type event. This seems to be (as far as I know, which isn't a lot) what happened.
Some jobs hire you on with the assumption you can do the job. Some jobs hire you on because you can do the job. I'm not arguing against good treatment to good people. I'm not even arguing against good treatment to all people, but if you can't do the high-level jobs in your field (be it baseball or particle physics or driving a taxi) then people who are trying to find good people have a right to tell you they don't want you.
Some people fall into a hell of a funk during their lives. Some people crawl back out; some don't. Coming at it from wholly his boss's perspective it seems a little wrong to cast blame in entirely one spot.
Said someone who had to walk away after trying a lot to help a friend of many years who reached a point of drinking 3.5 liters of scotch per week.
Exactly! (been there, was there) I understand how tragic his downfall must have looked to everyone around him.
posted by Avelwood at 4:26 AM on March 5, 2009
No, I agree. I support the point you made wholly.The very competitive world of competitive sports, that we fund, that we support, pays to see people with amazing talents perform.
I wouldn't hold McDonald's too responsible for firing the Down's Syndrome guy who showed up every day and tried to throw hamburger patties everywhere after he kept doing it for months. But I would think it an act of kindness (and appreciate the fact that a gigantic corporate empire like McDonald's did so) if they tried to transfer him to another store or find him a new job; instead of outright showing him the the door; even if it came out in the press that one manager did this as a favor to another manager. (And this is largely what happened with this case it seems.) As cruel as firing them may seem, it would still be a finding-an-act-of-kindness type event. This seems to be (as far as I know, which isn't a lot) what happened.
Some jobs hire you on with the assumption you can do the job. Some jobs hire you on because you can do the job. I'm not arguing against good treatment to good people. I'm not even arguing against good treatment to all people, but if you can't do the high-level jobs in your field (be it baseball or particle physics or driving a taxi) then people who are trying to find good people have a right to tell you they don't want you.
Some people fall into a hell of a funk during their lives. Some people crawl back out; some don't. Coming at it from wholly his boss's perspective it seems a little wrong to cast blame in entirely one spot.
Said someone who had to walk away after trying a lot to help a friend of many years who reached a point of drinking 3.5 liters of scotch per week.
Exactly! (been there, was there) I understand how tragic his downfall must have looked to everyone around him.
posted by Avelwood at 4:26 AM on March 5, 2009
This guy's story is sad, but my impression is that a lot of jocks who don't make it to the big leagues land on their feet...
Therefore, it's OK to treat all athletes - or at least those who don't seem to quite have it together - as interchangeable with pieces of equipment.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:27 AM on March 5, 2009
Therefore, it's OK to treat all athletes - or at least those who don't seem to quite have it together - as interchangeable with pieces of equipment.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:27 AM on March 5, 2009
I think it's generally understood that often, when we say "life is cruel", what we mean is that people in life are cruel, no?
No, I've never understood it to mean that. I've understood it to mean "the inanimate universe doesn't care if you prosper, or even exist, and in many ways will act as if it means to destroy you".
posted by DU at 4:29 AM on March 5, 2009
No, I've never understood it to mean that. I've understood it to mean "the inanimate universe doesn't care if you prosper, or even exist, and in many ways will act as if it means to destroy you".
posted by DU at 4:29 AM on March 5, 2009
It is obvious that Odom suffered from the Black Dog.
Perhaps he and David Foster Wallace could have used some help before they offed themselves. Perhaps nothing would have made a difference, but one can always hope.
posted by rdone at 5:37 AM on March 5, 2009
Perhaps he and David Foster Wallace could have used some help before they offed themselves. Perhaps nothing would have made a difference, but one can always hope.
posted by rdone at 5:37 AM on March 5, 2009
.
posted by mediareport at 5:43 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by mediareport at 5:43 AM on March 5, 2009
.
posted by limeonaire at 6:10 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by limeonaire at 6:10 AM on March 5, 2009
No, I've never understood it to mean that.
This doesn't surprise me in the least, as we don't seem to agree on much of anything, Mr. DU. I'm sure if you could've found cites to demonstrate or prove that my understanding and interpretation is incorrect, you would've done so. Therefore, I'm sure we can agree to disagree, once again.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:16 AM on March 5, 2009
This doesn't surprise me in the least, as we don't seem to agree on much of anything, Mr. DU. I'm sure if you could've found cites to demonstrate or prove that my understanding and interpretation is incorrect, you would've done so. Therefore, I'm sure we can agree to disagree, once again.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:16 AM on March 5, 2009
For what it's worth, I'm with flapjax on the meaning of the phrase (as on much else, since he's one of the real mensches around here). And this is a goddam sad story.
Note: Everybody needs a hug.
posted by languagehat at 6:26 AM on March 5, 2009
Note: Everybody needs a hug.
posted by languagehat at 6:26 AM on March 5, 2009
This is undeniably awful. There is an sick, poetic inevitability to this story that makes me angry. But it is, I think, the looking back at this path that makes it seem so predestined. I mean, trading the guy for bats is fairly insulting, but getting released or traded down is insulting too. And it happens to (using the math above) 1.2 billion people every year, so it isn't the trade - it's the poetry of it that is so cruel.
It's not like he was cruising along and they blindsided him. He signed with a distant low-A team after being released from spring training. Never even plays for the low A club because he couldn't get across the border, because of his (seemingly) undisclosed criminal record. So he calls them from a hotel across the border, says he needs to be traded. They were forced to trade and, well, that's the trade they made. They got publicity value out of him, even though they never got him to play for them. In retrospect I have no doubt that they would take it back, but can you really blame them? You figure low A, unaffiliated Canadian baseball teams are rolling in dough? I expect they do anything they can to wring any money they can out of anything they have.
To be sure, it's not like he was the most stable sounding kid. If the owners had known more about him, maybe even been in the same room with him (conjecture, but who knows?) maybe they'd have chosen somebody else for their stunt, but they didn't know him - he was never with the team.
So, yes, again, I think this is terribly, terribly tragic, but I think the easy narrative of "kid traded for bats = dead kid" is dishonest. This is not a flamboyant cautionary tale about novelty trades - it's another staggeringly mundane cautionary tale about fucking drugs.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's not like he was cruising along and they blindsided him. He signed with a distant low-A team after being released from spring training. Never even plays for the low A club because he couldn't get across the border, because of his (seemingly) undisclosed criminal record. So he calls them from a hotel across the border, says he needs to be traded. They were forced to trade and, well, that's the trade they made. They got publicity value out of him, even though they never got him to play for them. In retrospect I have no doubt that they would take it back, but can you really blame them? You figure low A, unaffiliated Canadian baseball teams are rolling in dough? I expect they do anything they can to wring any money they can out of anything they have.
To be sure, it's not like he was the most stable sounding kid. If the owners had known more about him, maybe even been in the same room with him (conjecture, but who knows?) maybe they'd have chosen somebody else for their stunt, but they didn't know him - he was never with the team.
So, yes, again, I think this is terribly, terribly tragic, but I think the easy narrative of "kid traded for bats = dead kid" is dishonest. This is not a flamboyant cautionary tale about novelty trades - it's another staggeringly mundane cautionary tale about fucking drugs.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:58 AM on March 5, 2009 [2 favorites]
Human beings shouldn't be traded for anything less than some form of currency. Anything less than cold-hard cash is dehumanizing. I want to see money changing hands. That way, if their dignity is at stake we can throw in an extra $20, and everything is ok.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:10 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by blue_beetle at 7:10 AM on March 5, 2009
The medical examiner’s office figured out Odom’s fame when they saw a tattoo on his right elbow over suture marks that read “Poena Par Sapientia” — a rough Latin translation of “Pain equals wisdom” — and did a Google search.
There's just something creepy about that entire sentence.
posted by blucevalo at 7:25 AM on March 5, 2009
There's just something creepy about that entire sentence.
posted by blucevalo at 7:25 AM on March 5, 2009
I mean, trading the guy for bats is fairly insulting, but getting released or traded down is insulting too.
. . .
In retrospect I have no doubt that they would take it back, but can you really blame them?
Yes, I can, because there's a difference between "fairly insulting" and publicly humiliating for profit. They didn't just trade him for bats; they went on to use the trade as a way to generate publicity.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:27 AM on March 5, 2009
. . .
In retrospect I have no doubt that they would take it back, but can you really blame them?
Yes, I can, because there's a difference between "fairly insulting" and publicly humiliating for profit. They didn't just trade him for bats; they went on to use the trade as a way to generate publicity.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:27 AM on March 5, 2009
I started this comment thread wanting very much to take that bat and widen Peter Young's tooth gap by, say, four inches. Then I read bunnytricks' response and giggled a little, but I'm still sad (and still wouldn't piss on Peter Young if he was on fire). So, I guess all I got in the end is:
.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:33 AM on March 5, 2009
.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:33 AM on March 5, 2009
I would chastise him for being a pro-athlete...
Really? You must be awesome.
I don't really feel like taking sides, but I do agree with DU's interpretation of "life is cruel". I think life could still be cruel even if all the human beings in it were absolutely above cruelty.
posted by kingbenny at 8:03 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Really? You must be awesome.
I don't really feel like taking sides, but I do agree with DU's interpretation of "life is cruel". I think life could still be cruel even if all the human beings in it were absolutely above cruelty.
posted by kingbenny at 8:03 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
By the way, I think it was the dollar value ($665) of this guy's trade, not the 10 baseball bats, that killed him. Unlucky all around...
posted by limeonaire at 8:13 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by limeonaire at 8:13 AM on March 5, 2009
The more I read about this the more I'm convinced that the stunt trade had nothing at all to do with Odom's death.
posted by rocket88 at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by rocket88 at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2009
Yeah, it seems like he was pretty fucked up to begin with. Still, that's a hell of a push on a hell of a ledge.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:48 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:48 AM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
In soccer, there have been quite a few unusual transfer fees.
posted by Electric Dragon at 11:47 AM on March 5, 2009
posted by Electric Dragon at 11:47 AM on March 5, 2009
I read about this when it happened, and it seemed like less of a publicity stunt then. My memory may be faulty, but it seems to me it evolved like this:
The Calgary team didn't want cash, because it looks desperate and he didn't want the fanbase to think the team was struggling financially (the popularity of baseball in Canada is greatly in decline and minor league baseball in Calgary is always in a bit of a difficult situation, the Calgary fanbase has had to deal with some unstable teams and bad ownership before... this owner was trying to avoid that appearance) and that the bats received for the player would receive game action and be used as regular team equipment... at least as I understood it at the time. So the spin I received when I first heard about this was that the trade really wasn't that different from "cash considerations" or "future considerations" trades that appear fairly often and the owner wasn't really being mocking or cruel (which was a question raised even before this mans' tragic death)
I mean this could have been a legitimate business transaction - I get the impression a lot of people really don't understand the finances involved here, it would be wrong to think baseball is full of guys like A-Rod and Barry Bonds. Consider that Maple bats are expensive, and the economics of baseball at this level means $600-$700 dollars is a lot of money. My local independent minor league baseball team charges $10 for a ticket which includes a hot dog and a cap, and the players are usually billeted college kids on summer break who get paid a few hundred bucks to play baseball, so these aren't big money operations. When this happened, I took the ownership at face value saying they really needed the bats (I think there may have been an issue about not wanting to order a bunch of new bats from suppliers towards the end of the season), and the pitcher couldn't play in Canada anyway.
It looks like at some point the bats became inscribed with "batman" or something similarily insulting and the players' teams started to use this as a stunt for mockery and publicity. My version of the story tends to downplay the appearance that this was some tragic, pre-destined event, but otherwise the whole situation serves as an example of why good people will never "kick a man when he is down".
posted by Deep Dish at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2009
The Calgary team didn't want cash, because it looks desperate and he didn't want the fanbase to think the team was struggling financially (the popularity of baseball in Canada is greatly in decline and minor league baseball in Calgary is always in a bit of a difficult situation, the Calgary fanbase has had to deal with some unstable teams and bad ownership before... this owner was trying to avoid that appearance) and that the bats received for the player would receive game action and be used as regular team equipment... at least as I understood it at the time. So the spin I received when I first heard about this was that the trade really wasn't that different from "cash considerations" or "future considerations" trades that appear fairly often and the owner wasn't really being mocking or cruel (which was a question raised even before this mans' tragic death)
I mean this could have been a legitimate business transaction - I get the impression a lot of people really don't understand the finances involved here, it would be wrong to think baseball is full of guys like A-Rod and Barry Bonds. Consider that Maple bats are expensive, and the economics of baseball at this level means $600-$700 dollars is a lot of money. My local independent minor league baseball team charges $10 for a ticket which includes a hot dog and a cap, and the players are usually billeted college kids on summer break who get paid a few hundred bucks to play baseball, so these aren't big money operations. When this happened, I took the ownership at face value saying they really needed the bats (I think there may have been an issue about not wanting to order a bunch of new bats from suppliers towards the end of the season), and the pitcher couldn't play in Canada anyway.
It looks like at some point the bats became inscribed with "batman" or something similarily insulting and the players' teams started to use this as a stunt for mockery and publicity. My version of the story tends to downplay the appearance that this was some tragic, pre-destined event, but otherwise the whole situation serves as an example of why good people will never "kick a man when he is down".
posted by Deep Dish at 12:05 PM on March 5, 2009
This made me cry. I've read it several times and every time it makes me cry. When did we stop treating people like human beings. I don't care if he was a drug addict or whatever, we should at least respect each other because we are all just trying to make it thru every day. Nobody has to like him, but at least treat him humanely like we would all want to be treated if we were down and out.
posted by brneyedgrl at 12:32 PM on March 5, 2009
posted by brneyedgrl at 12:32 PM on March 5, 2009
brneyedgrl
Take heart, stop crying. Listen, shsssssh, listen. Every day, players are released for nothing. This trade didn't even indirectly lead to his death. Its routine in concept, and there is NOT any big money involved. These teams have almost 0 money - $700 in bats is a big help for the rights to a player that can't pitch for you. It was a bit different, sensationalized by the media - all out of proportion to anyone in the game. Were people insensitive after the fact? Yes, absolutely. It didn't kill him - you think someone that sensitive would be playing 4 years in pro baseball? Its a business/sport that trains you from little league about how to deal with failure.
posted by sfts2 at 2:47 PM on March 5, 2009
Take heart, stop crying. Listen, shsssssh, listen. Every day, players are released for nothing. This trade didn't even indirectly lead to his death. Its routine in concept, and there is NOT any big money involved. These teams have almost 0 money - $700 in bats is a big help for the rights to a player that can't pitch for you. It was a bit different, sensationalized by the media - all out of proportion to anyone in the game. Were people insensitive after the fact? Yes, absolutely. It didn't kill him - you think someone that sensitive would be playing 4 years in pro baseball? Its a business/sport that trains you from little league about how to deal with failure.
posted by sfts2 at 2:47 PM on March 5, 2009
Three things:
I had never heard of Odom before today.
I am sorry for his family.
It took until the sixth paragraph for a story (third link) about reaction to his death to mention that he had actually died. I wonder how the fuck you get to be a "Baseball Writer" for the AP when you bury the lead like that.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:53 PM on March 5, 2009
I had never heard of Odom before today.
I am sorry for his family.
It took until the sixth paragraph for a story (third link) about reaction to his death to mention that he had actually died. I wonder how the fuck you get to be a "Baseball Writer" for the AP when you bury the lead like that.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:53 PM on March 5, 2009
At 30 teams with 40 man rosters, that's 1200 players.
Pffff. 40 man rosters include 15 in the minors, available to be called up in case of injury. That means there are only 750,000,000 minor league players, you numbers dummy.
posted by one_bean at 6:36 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
Pffff. 40 man rosters include 15 in the minors, available to be called up in case of injury. That means there are only 750,000,000 minor league players, you numbers dummy.
posted by one_bean at 6:36 PM on March 5, 2009 [1 favorite]
What's really sad is they didn't even use the bats.
At least they could have had the team use them in a memorial game or something. Every single gets a donation to a charity, every double doubles that amount, and so on. And all the money should have gone to the Suicide Prevention outreach programs in the city the team played for.
This is a sad, sad story.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:57 AM on March 6, 2009
At least they could have had the team use them in a memorial game or something. Every single gets a donation to a charity, every double doubles that amount, and so on. And all the money should have gone to the Suicide Prevention outreach programs in the city the team played for.
This is a sad, sad story.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:57 AM on March 6, 2009
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posted by middleclasstool at 9:50 PM on March 4, 2009