Hey you! Yeah you, "intolerant Yalie jerks", don't you know you've gotta show the president some respect?
June 10, 2001 12:34 PM Subscribe
Hey you! Yeah you, "intolerant Yalie jerks", don't you know you've gotta show the president some respect? Forget about freedom to dissent. This Christian author thinks you're "obnoxious" and a "jerk" for even considering political demonstration when it's not in lock-step with the powers that seek to control you.
that is rather obnoxious. go to your own graduation ceremony to boo and hiss? classy...
posted by techgnollogic at 12:49 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by techgnollogic at 12:49 PM on June 10, 2001
It was their ceremony after all. The author didn't seem too worked up that the grads were spoiling it for themselves. Rather, Bush deserved more respect.
posted by crasspastor at 12:58 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by crasspastor at 12:58 PM on June 10, 2001
I think the author is right. There's a difference between what you *can* do and what you *should* do. The author never suggests that you shouldn't be allowed to engage in political protest; only that it's rude to do it to someone who is taking time out of his scheduele to give your commencement speech. I'm not on the right by any stretch of the imagination, but there are times when social protest is acceptable and there are times when it is rude. End story.
posted by Kevs at 1:11 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by Kevs at 1:11 PM on June 10, 2001
George Bush pere spoke at my Commencement, during his 1992 campaign. I've always regretted that I didn't have the nerve to join those who turned their back during his speech.
only that it's rude to do it to someone who is taking time out of his scheduele to give your commencement speech.
As we've discussed, George doesn't do much on the weekends anyway. Besides, a commencement speech is nothing more than a photo-op (in cap and gown, even: "gee maw, hee don't look that dumb") and a chance to get sound bytes without having to answer questions afterward. A president's motives for making such appearances are far from selfless.
there are times when social protest is acceptable and there are times when it is rude
More often than not, no matter the venue, social protest is rude. That's kinda the point. Democracy ain't pretty.
posted by jpoulos at 1:22 PM on June 10, 2001
only that it's rude to do it to someone who is taking time out of his scheduele to give your commencement speech.
As we've discussed, George doesn't do much on the weekends anyway. Besides, a commencement speech is nothing more than a photo-op (in cap and gown, even: "gee maw, hee don't look that dumb") and a chance to get sound bytes without having to answer questions afterward. A president's motives for making such appearances are far from selfless.
there are times when social protest is acceptable and there are times when it is rude
More often than not, no matter the venue, social protest is rude. That's kinda the point. Democracy ain't pretty.
posted by jpoulos at 1:22 PM on June 10, 2001
Did GWB have to receive his doctoral diploma in the college canteen?
posted by holgate at 1:25 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by holgate at 1:25 PM on June 10, 2001
On a more serious note, I recall the way in which Oxford's academics voted against the honorary degree for Margaret Thatcher (an Oxford graduate, in fact) given that she'd cut higher education funding.
The whole commencement thing amuses me a little, given that you get some very odd choices, which have precious little to do with the guiding principles of the academy: my girlfriend recalls a particularly bizarre and embarrassing one given by Ted Turner at the UGA graduation ceremony a few years ago. And if I'd spent four years clocking up decent grades, I'd actually want some kind of say in who gives the speech on my big day, and if not, I'd like the chance to show my disapproval. I'm still jealous of my mate at Durham who received his degree certificate from Peter Ustinov...
posted by holgate at 1:34 PM on June 10, 2001
The whole commencement thing amuses me a little, given that you get some very odd choices, which have precious little to do with the guiding principles of the academy: my girlfriend recalls a particularly bizarre and embarrassing one given by Ted Turner at the UGA graduation ceremony a few years ago. And if I'd spent four years clocking up decent grades, I'd actually want some kind of say in who gives the speech on my big day, and if not, I'd like the chance to show my disapproval. I'm still jealous of my mate at Durham who received his degree certificate from Peter Ustinov...
posted by holgate at 1:34 PM on June 10, 2001
And were Tony Blair or David Blunkett to speak at a British university, I'd imagine they'd get the same reception for their introduction of tuition fees.
posted by holgate at 1:35 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by holgate at 1:35 PM on June 10, 2001
I don't know that the shrub has done anything to warrant respect. Merely getting elected to office under dubious (only follow that link if you want a rehash) circumstances isn't really enough. Bush using a graduation ceremony as a photo-op is a much worse sin than protesting the event. Bush will have thousands of photo ops, you only graduate from Yale once.
Protest happens when something is wrong, otherwise, it wouldn't be a protest.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:43 PM on June 10, 2001
Protest happens when something is wrong, otherwise, it wouldn't be a protest.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:43 PM on June 10, 2001
I'm not sure why a university such as Yale would want to toot their horn too loudly about the fact that one of their alum's is such a dim-wit. That said, he probably deserved more respect. Although, if I were presented with the opportunity to shout something within earshot of the shrub, I'm not sure I could contain myself.
posted by bicyclingfool at 1:47 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by bicyclingfool at 1:47 PM on June 10, 2001
About "the powers that seek to control you":
This article is quintessential conservatism. It aligns great with other going conservative stereotypes that it is the ideology of censorship, devaluing people's assemblying power by chiding, misrepresenting or illegalizing it, never question those who wield power over you, otherwise you'll upset the natural order of lords and peasantry. For those, like the author who would rather chastise democracy working on it's feet, I ask when would there be, for most of those in attendance, another opportunity to be part of a large group of people assembled with like progressive ideals and have governor Bush auspiciously in attendance as well? That's how these things happen.
posted by crasspastor at 2:15 PM on June 10, 2001
This article is quintessential conservatism. It aligns great with other going conservative stereotypes that it is the ideology of censorship, devaluing people's assemblying power by chiding, misrepresenting or illegalizing it, never question those who wield power over you, otherwise you'll upset the natural order of lords and peasantry. For those, like the author who would rather chastise democracy working on it's feet, I ask when would there be, for most of those in attendance, another opportunity to be part of a large group of people assembled with like progressive ideals and have governor Bush auspiciously in attendance as well? That's how these things happen.
posted by crasspastor at 2:15 PM on June 10, 2001
You'd think Kent State would've taught kids to better respect authoritah.
posted by jpoulos at 2:23 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by jpoulos at 2:23 PM on June 10, 2001
This article is quintessential conservatism. It aligns great with other going conservative stereotypes that it is the ideology of censorship, devaluing people's assemblying power by chiding, misrepresenting or illegalizing it, never question those who wield power over you, otherwise you'll upset the natural order of lords and peasantry. For those, like the author who would rather chastise democracy working on it's feet, I ask when would there be, for most of those in attendance, another opportunity to be part of a large group of people assembled with like progressive ideals and have governor Bush auspiciously in attendance as well? That's how these things happen.
Again, the author never stated anything about censoring those in attendance, he was merely pointing out the childishness of booing a president with whom you disagree politically during a commencement. This isn't political protest, it's buffoonery. I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
posted by ljromanoff at 2:36 PM on June 10, 2001
Again, the author never stated anything about censoring those in attendance, he was merely pointing out the childishness of booing a president with whom you disagree politically during a commencement. This isn't political protest, it's buffoonery. I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
posted by ljromanoff at 2:36 PM on June 10, 2001
"I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans..."
Thats just it..they weren't invited to the white house. George W. was invited to **thier** event. And if this is the same commencement I've read about where George W. made several "silly" jokes about his C average, and just how damn priveledged he is, then good for them. If it is the same address he insulted every single graduating student, not the other way around.
pP
posted by darkpony at 2:52 PM on June 10, 2001
Thats just it..they weren't invited to the white house. George W. was invited to **thier** event. And if this is the same commencement I've read about where George W. made several "silly" jokes about his C average, and just how damn priveledged he is, then good for them. If it is the same address he insulted every single graduating student, not the other way around.
pP
posted by darkpony at 2:52 PM on June 10, 2001
Thats just it..they weren't invited to the white house. George W. was invited to **thier** event. And if this is the same commencement I've read about where George W. made several "silly" jokes about his C average, and just how damn priveledged he is, then good for them. If it is the same address he insulted every single graduating student, not the other way around.
I fail to see how GWB insulted anyone by making fun of himself. And the point is that merely because you are in the presence of the president, regardless of who invited whom, childish antics don't immediately become 'political protests.'
posted by ljromanoff at 3:25 PM on June 10, 2001
I fail to see how GWB insulted anyone by making fun of himself. And the point is that merely because you are in the presence of the president, regardless of who invited whom, childish antics don't immediately become 'political protests.'
posted by ljromanoff at 3:25 PM on June 10, 2001
Close italics
posted by Steven Den Beste at 4:06 PM on June 10, 2001 [1 favorite]
posted by Steven Den Beste at 4:06 PM on June 10, 2001 [1 favorite]
What William F. Buckley Jr. said about Yale students wanting to protest Hillary Clinton giving a commencement speech:
"So my vote would be to go with it, tolerate her appearance, and be civil to the guest of one's alma mater."
posted by gyc at 5:23 PM on June 10, 2001
"So my vote would be to go with it, tolerate her appearance, and be civil to the guest of one's alma mater."
posted by gyc at 5:23 PM on June 10, 2001
But then, conservatives have never really gotten the hang of public protest, have they?
posted by jpoulos at 7:48 PM on June 10, 2001
posted by jpoulos at 7:48 PM on June 10, 2001
Do it the Oxford way: separate the honorary doctorate ceremonies from the general graduations. That way, no one's left guessing who is actually being honoured on the day, particularly when the political interests of the institution may not play well with the sympathies of their students.
It reminds me of the stories told to me (by Americans, invariably) of the scary clowns who turned up as the entertainment at birthday parties when they were little. "Be nice to the clown," the parents would say, and the kids would wail all the louder.
posted by holgate at 8:28 PM on June 10, 2001
It reminds me of the stories told to me (by Americans, invariably) of the scary clowns who turned up as the entertainment at birthday parties when they were little. "Be nice to the clown," the parents would say, and the kids would wail all the louder.
posted by holgate at 8:28 PM on June 10, 2001
But then, conservatives have never really gotten the hang of public protest, have they?
Hahahaha! I suppose I've been trying to intimate the same sentiment. Jpoulos you are the man! That's precisely my above long winded point (those who control you. . .).
LJ:
Again, the author never stated anything about censoring those in attendance, he was merely pointing out the childishness of booing a president with whom you disagree politically during a commencement. This isn't political protest, it's buffoonery. I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
You parroted my exact argument. You cut and pasted it yourself, yet failed to notice what I wrote:
devaluing people's assemblying power by chiding, misrepresenting or illegalizing it,
Yet in pure LJR form you didn't address the argument at all but threw your own erroneous facade on what in fact was written, staying true to your obvious party line.
I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
You could only wish your able liberal opponents were as caricaturized as you happily portray yourself their enemy online.
posted by crasspastor at 2:06 AM on June 11, 2001
Hahahaha! I suppose I've been trying to intimate the same sentiment. Jpoulos you are the man! That's precisely my above long winded point (those who control you. . .).
LJ:
Again, the author never stated anything about censoring those in attendance, he was merely pointing out the childishness of booing a president with whom you disagree politically during a commencement. This isn't political protest, it's buffoonery. I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
You parroted my exact argument. You cut and pasted it yourself, yet failed to notice what I wrote:
devaluing people's assemblying power by chiding, misrepresenting or illegalizing it,
Yet in pure LJR form you didn't address the argument at all but threw your own erroneous facade on what in fact was written, staying true to your obvious party line.
I suppose if you were ever invited to some White House ceremony you'd run around with your pants off, piss in the punch bowl, and shout silly slogans all the while considering yourself a great protester in the Martin Luther King vein, huh?
You could only wish your able liberal opponents were as caricaturized as you happily portray yourself their enemy online.
posted by crasspastor at 2:06 AM on June 11, 2001
You could only wish your able liberal opponents were as caricaturized as you happily portray yourself their enemy online.
In this case, liberals are not my opponents, rude little children are. If the guest were a left winger like anyone with the last name Clinton, I wouldn't think it appropriate for the conservative members of the Yale student body to boo and shout either.
posted by ljromanoff at 6:09 AM on June 11, 2001
In this case, liberals are not my opponents, rude little children are. If the guest were a left winger like anyone with the last name Clinton, I wouldn't think it appropriate for the conservative members of the Yale student body to boo and shout either.
posted by ljromanoff at 6:09 AM on June 11, 2001
I wouldn't think it appropriate for the conservative members of the Yale student body to boo and shout either.
Would you find it appropriate for, say, US Senators to talk about his semen stains and "distinguishing characteristics" of his penis? Claiming you're not being partisan here is less than believable.
posted by jpoulos at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2001
Would you find it appropriate for, say, US Senators to talk about his semen stains and "distinguishing characteristics" of his penis? Claiming you're not being partisan here is less than believable.
posted by jpoulos at 1:14 PM on June 11, 2001
Well, maybe in retaliation for the booing of the crowd, the graduates should have had their degrees withheld. It works in midwest high schools, why not at Yale? That's about their mentality level.
posted by Dreama at 1:36 PM on June 11, 2001
posted by Dreama at 1:36 PM on June 11, 2001
I wouldn't think it appropriate for the conservative members of the Yale student body to boo and shout either.
Would you find it appropriate for, say, US Senators to talk about his semen stains and "distinguishing characteristics" of his penis? Claiming you're not being partisan here is less than believable.
That's completely different and you know it.
posted by ljromanoff at 1:37 PM on June 11, 2001
Would you find it appropriate for, say, US Senators to talk about his semen stains and "distinguishing characteristics" of his penis? Claiming you're not being partisan here is less than believable.
That's completely different and you know it.
posted by ljromanoff at 1:37 PM on June 11, 2001
More often than not, no matter the venue, social protest is rude. That's kinda the point.
like the guy said. the whole point is to break from the normal course of things, to grab attention. whether the students' actions were appropriate or not is irrelevant. protest is never appropriate.
personally tho, i'd rather peacefully enjoy my commencement. i can stomach an afternoon with someone i dislike. perhaps that's what's riling you all up? the thought that maybe these kids did what they did just because they're ill-mannered and have no self-control? i doubt it. this is yale, people.
posted by zerolucid at 4:00 PM on June 13, 2001
like the guy said. the whole point is to break from the normal course of things, to grab attention. whether the students' actions were appropriate or not is irrelevant. protest is never appropriate.
personally tho, i'd rather peacefully enjoy my commencement. i can stomach an afternoon with someone i dislike. perhaps that's what's riling you all up? the thought that maybe these kids did what they did just because they're ill-mannered and have no self-control? i doubt it. this is yale, people.
posted by zerolucid at 4:00 PM on June 13, 2001
That's about their mentality level.
I know you are, Dreama. The question is: What am I?
:-)
posted by jpoulos at 1:14 PM on June 15, 2001
I know you are, Dreama. The question is: What am I?
:-)
posted by jpoulos at 1:14 PM on June 15, 2001
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posted by Ezrael at 12:42 PM on June 10, 2001