Outsider Art
June 26, 2001 7:17 PM Subscribe
posted by techgnollogic at 8:15 PM on June 26, 2001
posted by Steven Den Beste at 8:21 PM on June 26, 2001
The American Visionary Art Museum, a museum of outsider art, showcases the work or artists with little or no formal training. Creator Rebecca Hoffberger has come up against a lot of criticism for her museum, much of it centered around the fact that she's, well, an outsider. [NY Times: rebeccas_pocket, password: pocket] - rcb
posted by rebeccablood at 8:33 PM on June 26, 2001
posted by SpecialK at 8:37 PM on June 26, 2001
I could read into Judith Scott's work that she's expressing what she feels. Perhaps deep down inside her there is a woman capable of emotion and warmth and sorrow, but her body refuses to allow her to properly convey who she is to the world. Like her soul is wrapped inside of a shell that she can't break through.
But she can get her body to do this. A cocoon on a branch?
Probably not. I could also choose to read nothing into Judith Scott's work. Maybe she is both retarded AND insane, and what we allegedly sane and "normal" people see in her work is what's at question. Maybe she's not capable of expressing anything, and these "works of art" are just remnants of some reflex impulse the woman has - like how some mental patients bang their head against the wall.
All I know is, I see hope in her work. That's not something I came to her work with, but it's something with which I leave, thankful that Judith Scott exists. And thanks to SpecialK for bringing her to the attention of this motley crew.
What you personally choose to bring to and/or leave with the experience of her work is entirely up to you.
posted by ZachsMind at 9:09 PM on June 26, 2001
ok, if she was an idiot savant --i.e., finger painting with skittles juice like picasso, or shaping oatmeal into michelangelo-esque sculptures-- then maybe there'd be something to talk about here.
but she's obviously not. i mean, what the hell are those things? are there bodies inside?
c'mon, i find stuff outside my dog has chewed up that looks just as interesting... and my kids' rolled-up kite string sure looks a lot like some of those... and even my cat, if left alone long enough, perhaps would create similar-looking things from her own hair and carpet fibers.
yes-- ok, i can be abrasive, but geez... this is the web, and *hello?* does anybody remember kaycee? hmm?
i sincerely hope ms scott, real or not, is reaping at least any benefits of being discovered by the "art crowd"... maybe they'll hide the garbage and yarn, and buy her some paint and brushes.
posted by blackholebrain at 11:19 PM on June 26, 2001
posted by suprfli at 11:39 PM on June 26, 2001
I think the key issue here is the question: do you consider self-expression alone art? I'm not too sure, but would tend lean in that direction.
posted by Bag Man at 11:50 PM on June 26, 2001
Another person who falls into this category is Wesley Willis. He does remarkably detailed drawings of cityscapes with posterboard and markers. Much of his work is drawn from his memory of different urban areas. Plus he sings! With hits such as Cut The Mullet and I Whupped Batman's Ass, he is a proven rock and roll master!
posted by the biscuit man at 12:01 AM on June 27, 2001
Like caraig and biscuit man said, art is completely subjective. There is no universally accepted definition of what makes good art.
posted by emc at 3:49 AM on June 27, 2001
posted by BT at 5:57 AM on June 27, 2001
However, I'm worried about the person who makes them - an environment that increses the intensity and with which she produces these things raises questions about the boundary between support and provocation...
(I think you can see some of this difference in the works shown - in the contrast between the work and the way it is presented. But maybe that's just me guessing she didn't make the stands.)
posted by andrew cooke at 6:35 AM on June 27, 2001
Every post in MeFi is art. Every webpage. Even, and especially, the bad ones. You may hate Ed Wood but I find his work entertaining - probably not in the way he intended, but I acknowledge his cinematic efforts as art. Further, I've seen movies that I personally found to be worse than Ed Wood's best work, but even though I may not like it, I have to admit it's art.
Psychologists disagree whether or not the Rorschach Ink Blot Test is useful for personality analysis, but each card is a work of art. As far as I'm concerned, a baby smearing poop from a diaper is a creation of a significant thing. It is an expression of the self, and as such, qualifies as art. However, would I pay millions of dollars to have that displayed in my house? Hell, I wouldn't pay ten bucks for the original of the Mona Lisa. I think it's boring. This is more like it.
When you look at any expression from a human being and say it's not art, that is like saying a person is not human. People are by definition human. Some might perform inhumane actions, but that doesn't change what they truly are.
posted by ZachsMind at 6:38 AM on June 27, 2001
posted by andrew cooke at 7:03 AM on June 27, 2001
It may be a ball of string. Seen free of the pedestal and the art therapist and the accompanying story, I wouldn't ever view this work as anything but a ball of string.
But then most art needs its accompanying story to come to public attention.
The case can be made for Van Gogh being a visionary, that his work expresses a spirit and enthusiasm for the world that most people cannot feel. Then again, the way we view his work may be shaped by the story the publicity department put out many years ago.
I do see hope in this outsider art, in that it testifies to the human need for creation and expression. The idea that "outsider art" should be curated and placed in a museum with a $25 million endowment gives me a little less hope.
posted by TimTypeZed at 7:22 AM on June 27, 2001
Thanks, Zach.
We have to start with the existence of quality as inherent to the work of art, because so many people disregard that possibility out of hand - "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". What that sentence means to most people is, "if I like it, it's good." That isn't really what it means; rather, to me it means "I prefer that." That doesn't invalidate their opinion, it just renders it an opinion, instead of the fact that they'd like to take it for. The problem for me arises with the fact that if there is intrinsic value, that opinion can be wrong. People don't want to hear that, because they think it's their right to like what they want - and the trouble is, it is their right!
BUT!
It's their right to be wrong. And on, circularly.
posted by J. R. Hughto at 7:32 AM on June 27, 2001
maybe my mind is in the gutter, but she may be expressing some instinctual things the only way she can
posted by abosio at 7:53 AM on June 27, 2001
posted by solistrato at 9:02 AM on June 27, 2001
As for the string wrapping lady, I don't really know what to think. Her work seems expressive, but I get the feeling that it's only a result of randomness. She doesn't intend to use contrasting colors to evoke a response, she just grabs what she has lying around.
Which makes me think that someone might be aiding her "process" handing her certain colors and textures in order to produce a more desirable outcome.
I've a bad feeling about this . . .
posted by aladfar at 10:12 AM on June 27, 2001
Help! Somebody turn off the italics!
posted by witchstone at 11:19 AM on June 27, 2001
So . . . what exactly are you trying to say? Is it that since everyone has their own opinions about art that criticism is pointless? Or is it that art should somehow be more democratic? Or that we should? I'm having trouble following the meta-snark, but I do have one opinion: the refusal to judge anything is the weakest choice of all.
posted by Skot at 11:26 AM on June 27, 2001
posted by trox at 11:45 AM on June 27, 2001
posted by witchstone at 11:51 AM on June 27, 2001
And for the record, I'm afraid I don't see any art here (meaning the link)--it looks a bit more like neurological impairment and ticcing. Just one opinion (from an artist, if that bolsters anything, and I suspect it won't).
posted by Skot at 12:18 PM on June 27, 2001
To quote a friend:
If you like something for sentimental reasons or dislike a work for political reasons or because it challenges your preconceived notions, those are invalid measures. They will not stand the test of time because over time, the crap gets discarded and the appropriate measures for a given work remain (I assume basic truths, like physical laws, are the same for every generation). So, are those people wrong in failing to recognize an intrinsic goodness - the work has "it" - or are they wrong in failing to apply an objective, disciplined, and trained set of measures to assess the likely durability of the work's perceived quality? In this scenario, quality is an opinion, but some opinions are more informed than others and will be borne out over time by the agreement of other discerning viewers. But at base, quality is a statement about the perception of the work rather than an intrinsic aspect of the work itself. This seems a truism that results from the co-dependence of the viewer and the viewed. Quality is an assessment that springs from the mind of the viewer, but that doesn't mean some assessments are not better than others.
posted by J. R. Hughto at 2:23 PM on June 27, 2001
So what is it before all of society accepts it as art? What do we call it?
posted by ZachsMind at 6:58 PM on June 27, 2001
There are good reasons why 'stupid' bits of art are actually meaningful.
What about the drawings of flowers that a jailed murderer sends home to his mother? Without knowing the story, they'd just be scrappy pictures of flowers. But with the story, they are proof that beauty lives within even the most evil people.
So, what about objects wrapped in yarn? Without knowing the story, that's all they are.. objects in yarn. Wow.. not. But knowing that these are one of the few things that this poor person can create.. that makes them special.
posted by wackybrit at 7:32 PM on June 27, 2001
posted by andrew cooke at 2:23 AM on June 28, 2001
What this "context" does is something other than a purely aesthetic experience. Context may make something meaningful, or moving, or beautiful, but it does not make it art. Of course, because we are subjective beings we may never have "purely aesthetic experiences" - but that's why we are better able to see great art from the past, because the politics, fashion, etc., has largely been removed.
We don't have to know anything about Homer - we don't even need to know his name - we just need to be able to read it to determine its quality. That is a telling sign on the level of quality.
posted by J. R. Hughto at 6:48 AM on June 28, 2001
She is limited in abilities to express herself in any way other than this. The act of wrapping these found objects may or may not be automatic, it could simply be phsyical and not thought out.
Either way, I think it is a form of expression for her...so I do think it is art.
posted by soundslikequiet at 6:48 PM on June 28, 2001
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posted by caraig at 7:42 PM on June 26, 2001