The Tonight Show with?
January 8, 2010 8:14 AM Subscribe
The Late Shift was a 1996 HBO movie exploring the highly political world of how Jay Leno and secures the Tonight Show hosting job over David Letterman (played by a young John Michael Higgens) after Johnny Carson retires. Jay Leno stepped down for Conan O'Brian in 2009, for a new business model of a 10 pm talk show five times a week for NBC which some called the future of television. Leno's ratings have been abysmal, leading to major concerns among affiliates. It now seems the man who managed to beat out David Letterman may have done it yet again, as it is being rumored that Leno will get his old timeslot back after the Winter Olympics, leaving Conan's future uncertain.
This just proves that people use Leno to fall asleep and they don't actually want to watch him while awake.
posted by srboisvert at 8:23 AM on January 8, 2010 [19 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 8:23 AM on January 8, 2010 [19 favorites]
If Conan ever gets tired of this shit, I'm sure The Simpsons would be glad to have him back.
They probably don't pay as well though.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:24 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
They probably don't pay as well though.
posted by Joe Beese at 8:24 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
"how Jay Leno and secures". How did I miss that.
posted by dig_duggler at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2010
this FPP is incomplete without nikky finke's coverage: NBC ON THE HOT SEAT: Will It Be Jay AND Conan In Late Night? What's The Reason For Leno's Anti-NBC Monologue Tonight
posted by krautland at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by krautland at 8:26 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I rarely resort to internet memes to describe my feelings on things, but: Kill it with fire!
NBC and Leno (based on certain comments he has made regarding not wanting to leave The Tonight show, and not wanting to have been on at 10, etc --which were contradictory to the comments in interviews right before the program's debut.) come off as relative jackasses in the whole matter. Conan's ratings are lower than Lenos were by a lot, so Leno is just left with all this leverage, and they won't just let him go to another network.
All of which, naturally, leaves Conan the odd man out. He has a contract for 'Tonight', so obviously he isn't going anywhere, but his timeslot might get jerked around along with his goodwill. Having had to deal with Leno's public comments last year and now this. I know he's being well compensated and all, but he's being treated like the redheaded stepchild here.
But really, NBC, all this for someone who is rarely funny and often painfully unfunny? Also, it's not like your recent 10pm dramas were all bang-up hits either.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:27 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
NBC and Leno (based on certain comments he has made regarding not wanting to leave The Tonight show, and not wanting to have been on at 10, etc --which were contradictory to the comments in interviews right before the program's debut.) come off as relative jackasses in the whole matter. Conan's ratings are lower than Lenos were by a lot, so Leno is just left with all this leverage, and they won't just let him go to another network.
All of which, naturally, leaves Conan the odd man out. He has a contract for 'Tonight', so obviously he isn't going anywhere, but his timeslot might get jerked around along with his goodwill. Having had to deal with Leno's public comments last year and now this. I know he's being well compensated and all, but he's being treated like the redheaded stepchild here.
But really, NBC, all this for someone who is rarely funny and often painfully unfunny? Also, it's not like your recent 10pm dramas were all bang-up hits either.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:27 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Ugh. Leno is boring, lowest common denominator television. Seriously, I don't need Jay Leno to show me that a bunch of people he found on the street are ignorant of current events, American history and just about every other topic you can name ('Jaywalking,' 'Battle of the Jaywalk All-Stars'). Ask The Fruitcake Lady was about as funny as that show ever got.
Now Craig Ferguson, on the other hand...I've recently become a big ol' fan of that show, mostly due to staying up late during our post-Christmas vacation. He's hilarious, and if you're in the mood to read a really good autobiography, I recommend his.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:29 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Now Craig Ferguson, on the other hand...I've recently become a big ol' fan of that show, mostly due to staying up late during our post-Christmas vacation. He's hilarious, and if you're in the mood to read a really good autobiography, I recommend his.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:29 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I remember watching The Late Shift many years ago, and one of the big items in it was Letterman calling Carson to ask what he should do (i.e., move to CBS or stay in his followup slot at NBC), and Carson told him to go to CBS because NBC just wasn't going to give him the Tonight Show. Any confirmation of that, or was it fictional?
posted by fatbird at 8:31 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by fatbird at 8:31 AM on January 8, 2010
The real question is: how is NBC going to fill five primetime hours a week with something cheaper than Leno? Reruns? Infomercials? Test patterns?
posted by ColdChef at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2010 [7 favorites]
I find Conan really, really unfunny, so this news is fine with me. I like Letterman better, anyhow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:33 AM on January 8, 2010
Jeff Zucker really laid a big one here. Leno at 10 p.m. was a risk, and while it's true that if you don't take risks, you don't get anywhere, you also don't mess with something that works in television. Zucker messed with something that worked. Leno at 10 p.m. is like New Coke.
posted by Tin Man at 8:34 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Tin Man at 8:34 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
(Also, these days I'm generally ready to go to sleep by the time I finish The Daily Show. Once you get used to watching Jon Stewart's humor every night, it's really weird to watch the old-fashioned host-striding-out-and-doing-jokes-before-an-audience thing.)
posted by Tin Man at 8:35 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Tin Man at 8:35 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure why this is being painted as a victory for Leno -- yay, he goes back to 11.30 and gets a half-hour!!! -- when it's actually a monumental failure.
If Conan ever gets tired of this shit, I'm sure The Simpsons would be glad to have him back.
Given how bad that show has been this year, I doubt it.
posted by blucevalo at 8:36 AM on January 8, 2010
If Conan ever gets tired of this shit, I'm sure The Simpsons would be glad to have him back.
Given how bad that show has been this year, I doubt it.
posted by blucevalo at 8:36 AM on January 8, 2010
Why hasn't a premium network made a serious run at one of the slightly off-color late night hosts (ie Conan, Ferguson, Letterman to a certain extent)? I think Conan set free on HBO would be fantastic.
posted by jckll at 8:36 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jckll at 8:36 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes after the local news.
posted by Naberius at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
Krautland: That link was really concise and informative; is Finke usually that good?
posted by Ian A.T. at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by Ian A.T. at 8:37 AM on January 8, 2010
The network put him on at 10PM to save money two ways: no hour long drama to pay for 5 nights a week + they pay Leno chickenfeed, because he has no agent and always lowballs NBC when it's time to renew his contract (Leno's rationale being "as long as I make money for the company, they won't fire me).
You get what you pay for.
posted by Zambrano at 8:39 AM on January 8, 2010
You get what you pay for.
posted by Zambrano at 8:39 AM on January 8, 2010
is Finke usually that good?
she's wired in, which makes her site a great daily read, but word is she's unfair at times.
posted by krautland at 8:45 AM on January 8, 2010
she's wired in, which makes her site a great daily read, but word is she's unfair at times.
posted by krautland at 8:45 AM on January 8, 2010
Was it a given that Conan had to leave NYC for California to do The Tonight Show? I've always been a little pissy about that despite having no idea if it was his decision. This garbage with Leno makes me feel kinda sad for Conan, who in my tiny brain was forced across the country at gunpoint or some such.
My particular cocktail of coffee & energy drinks & lots to do means that if I have a few moments to check out late-night TV these days it's at midnight or so. I've found myself leaving the stupid box off until 12:30 and really, really enjoying Craig Ferguson's puppet show/monologue lately. So I agree with you, MetaFilter. >>smooches<<
(Seriously - No one watches Leno, right?)
posted by mintcake! at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2010
My particular cocktail of coffee & energy drinks & lots to do means that if I have a few moments to check out late-night TV these days it's at midnight or so. I've found myself leaving the stupid box off until 12:30 and really, really enjoying Craig Ferguson's puppet show/monologue lately. So I agree with you, MetaFilter. >>smooches<<
(Seriously - No one watches Leno, right?)
posted by mintcake! at 8:46 AM on January 8, 2010
In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes after the local news.
Like in the year 2000?
posted by dig_duggler at 8:47 AM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Like in the year 2000?
posted by dig_duggler at 8:47 AM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Why hasn't a premium network made a serious run at one of the slightly off-color late night hosts (ie Conan, Ferguson, Letterman to a certain extent)? I think Conan set free on HBO would be fantastic.
posted by jckll
Cost. These guys with their nightly shows get paid way, way more than the budget of the premium networks could likely handle.
If NBC does move Leno back I hope beyond hope that his ratings stay down, just so all involved can be punished for their idiocy. I don't watch Conan, but when I used to it was always worlds beyond what Leno does in terms of comedy.
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:48 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by jckll
Cost. These guys with their nightly shows get paid way, way more than the budget of the premium networks could likely handle.
If NBC does move Leno back I hope beyond hope that his ratings stay down, just so all involved can be punished for their idiocy. I don't watch Conan, but when I used to it was always worlds beyond what Leno does in terms of comedy.
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:48 AM on January 8, 2010
move to CBS or stay in his followup slot at NBC), and Carson told him to go to CBS because NBC just wasn't going to give him the Tonight Show. Any confirmation of that, or was it fictional?
There was a New Yorker article (I think) about the entire ordeal, it talks about this incident as well as Leno sneaking into NBC headquarters to eavesdrop on the NBC programming meetings
posted by Think_Long at 8:51 AM on January 8, 2010
There was a New Yorker article (I think) about the entire ordeal, it talks about this incident as well as Leno sneaking into NBC headquarters to eavesdrop on the NBC programming meetings
posted by Think_Long at 8:51 AM on January 8, 2010
Was it a given that Conan had to leave NYC for California to do The Tonight Show? I've always been a little pissy about that despite having no idea if it was his decision.
I think so. As far as I know Conan was the one who made the initial push for the move when his contract expired, it's a huge promotion for him - I have no citation at the moment, so someone may correct me
posted by Think_Long at 8:52 AM on January 8, 2010
I think so. As far as I know Conan was the one who made the initial push for the move when his contract expired, it's a huge promotion for him - I have no citation at the moment, so someone may correct me
posted by Think_Long at 8:52 AM on January 8, 2010
they pay Leno chickenfeed, because he has no agent and always lowballs NBC when it's time to renew his contract (Leno's rationale being "as long as I make money for the company, they won't fire me).
Is that true?
posted by shakespeherian at 8:55 AM on January 8, 2010
Is that true?
posted by shakespeherian at 8:55 AM on January 8, 2010
I'm a big Conan fan. He is doing 100% better on the Tonight show than Leno did. As an interviewer, he's second only to the great Letterman. But that said, if I were him, I think I'd bail go somewhere else, and do something different. Take the money and let NBC sink. They did it to themselves. Who wouldn't like to see Conan—who wrote Marge vs. The Monorail, for chrissake—given free run on cable?
Plus, who wants to work for Comcast? It's the worst company in America.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:57 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Plus, who wants to work for Comcast? It's the worst company in America.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:57 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
The real question is: how is NBC going to fill five primetime hours a week with something cheaper than Leno? Reruns? Infomercials? Test patterns?
Has anyone noticed that NBC has lately been running ads for old sitcoms (to watch on their website)? I've had this theory for awhile that they're about to unveil an "I Love the 80s" type format, rerunning old sitcoms with bumpers of comedians making snarky jokes about them.
posted by roll truck roll at 8:58 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Has anyone noticed that NBC has lately been running ads for old sitcoms (to watch on their website)? I've had this theory for awhile that they're about to unveil an "I Love the 80s" type format, rerunning old sitcoms with bumpers of comedians making snarky jokes about them.
posted by roll truck roll at 8:58 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I thought it was pretty stupid to try to fill the 10:00 hour every night with Leno. Insomniacs and drunks are a lot less picky than real people; and it left NBC no room to work in any potentially interesting programming they might stumble across.
posted by Mister_A at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2010
It seriously seems like a horrible, self-defeating move for NBC. Leno and Conan have very different audiences, and this sounds like a way to lose both.
For Jay's audience, it's sort of a return to his old Tonight Show, but not at half an hour. What would they do? Is it just going to be a monologue and a skit? Maybe a monologue and one guest? It just doesn't sound like it's going to have the right feel for those viewers.
And it will fucking kill the Tonight Show. People want to sleep eventually. Pushing the rest of the late night block back another thirty minutes will hurt everyone down the line, from Conan to Fallon to poor Carson Daly, who'll be down from twelve viewers to nine. (All vampires.)
And apart from the going to bed question, who's going to wait around another half hour for Conan when they could just watch Letterman now?
posted by Naberius at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
For Jay's audience, it's sort of a return to his old Tonight Show, but not at half an hour. What would they do? Is it just going to be a monologue and a skit? Maybe a monologue and one guest? It just doesn't sound like it's going to have the right feel for those viewers.
And it will fucking kill the Tonight Show. People want to sleep eventually. Pushing the rest of the late night block back another thirty minutes will hurt everyone down the line, from Conan to Fallon to poor Carson Daly, who'll be down from twelve viewers to nine. (All vampires.)
And apart from the going to bed question, who's going to wait around another half hour for Conan when they could just watch Letterman now?
posted by Naberius at 8:59 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Naberius, you're right, no one will see the Conan show. Most people don't watch the second half hour of the late-night shows anyway; the good guests and funny bits tend to be up front. Then at 12:20 you get to hear Adam Duritz caterwaul.
posted by Mister_A at 9:01 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by Mister_A at 9:01 AM on January 8, 2010
Is that true?
Leno doesn't actually spend the money he makes from NBC, so he doesn't have much incentive to haggle: "I had two jobs as a kid, one at a fast-food restaurant and one at a Ford dealership. And I'd put the money from one job in one pocket and spend it. And the other paycheck I'd save," he says. "I do that now. I have always banked my Tonight Show money and lived off the stand-up. I have one credit card, no mortgage, and I don't lease."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:07 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Leno doesn't actually spend the money he makes from NBC, so he doesn't have much incentive to haggle: "I had two jobs as a kid, one at a fast-food restaurant and one at a Ford dealership. And I'd put the money from one job in one pocket and spend it. And the other paycheck I'd save," he says. "I do that now. I have always banked my Tonight Show money and lived off the stand-up. I have one credit card, no mortgage, and I don't lease."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:07 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
The Late Shift was a 1996 HBO movie
Based on a book. Based on a book. Based on a book.
Give Bill Carter the credit he deserves for months of research into this shit. I would have clawed my eyes out in the first week.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:08 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Based on a book. Based on a book. Based on a book.
Give Bill Carter the credit he deserves for months of research into this shit. I would have clawed my eyes out in the first week.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:08 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
BRING BACK 90-MINUTE PAT SAJAK SHOW WITH OCCASIONAL GUEST HOST RUSH LIMBAUGH!!
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:09 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:09 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Please don't make Conan angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry.
posted by mazola at 9:10 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by mazola at 9:10 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I watch Conan on Hulu every afternoon during my lunch break. Let's be honest: he's not the funniest guy out there. Some of his new bits are painfully unfunny... take Twitter Tracker for instance (please kill that bit now). But he's rarely mean or spiteful on stage, and when a joke works I don't feel guilty for laughing at it. And he doesn't seem to take himself too seriously, or at least he's good at faking it. I think there's something to be said for that.
He's just pleasant to watch.
Plus, I love Andy Richter. I stopped watching Late Night when he left, and I doubt I'd still be watching the Tonight Show if Andy hadn't come back. Those two just work so well together. Anyone else notice how, since the New Year, Andy has moved more and more from announcer into the sidekick role?
So I'm disappointed that NBC isn't giving Conan a chance. Leno's had his opportunity, he's lived his life. There's no reason to sacrifice to give him more.
posted by sbutler at 9:15 AM on January 8, 2010
He's just pleasant to watch.
Plus, I love Andy Richter. I stopped watching Late Night when he left, and I doubt I'd still be watching the Tonight Show if Andy hadn't come back. Those two just work so well together. Anyone else notice how, since the New Year, Andy has moved more and more from announcer into the sidekick role?
So I'm disappointed that NBC isn't giving Conan a chance. Leno's had his opportunity, he's lived his life. There's no reason to sacrifice to give him more.
posted by sbutler at 9:15 AM on January 8, 2010
God damn it. I really like Conan and can't stand Leno. This makes me so mad.
posted by brundlefly at 9:21 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by brundlefly at 9:21 AM on January 8, 2010
If I'm going to watch a fictionalized version of the Late Show Wars, I'm going to watch The Larry Sanders Show.
posted by DU at 9:22 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by DU at 9:22 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Y'know, I just wanted to step in here and speak up against all the shit-talking others are doing about people who stay up till 3 in the morning. That we're all vampires and such. Department of Health and Human Services studies showed it was 35% of those folks, tops*. Get your numbers right, people.
* - Though an additional 28% of us are comsuming the flesh of the living, I'll admit.
posted by el_lupino at 9:30 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
* - Though an additional 28% of us are comsuming the flesh of the living, I'll admit.
posted by el_lupino at 9:30 AM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Conan's ratings are down because Leno's ratings suck. No one's watching Leno, which is pulling down ratings for the local news shows after him, which is then pulling down Conan's ratings. Leno's previously good ratings were following on the stronger lead-ins of shows like E.R. and Law & Order.
Leno's day is over. He's not funny anymore. NBC needs to dump him and get behind Conan more. Conan isn't always my cup of tea but I like him better than Leno.
Craig Ferguson is definitely my current favorite of the whole lot, though. The puppets and the dance number lead-ins are genius.
posted by dnash at 9:31 AM on January 8, 2010
Leno's day is over. He's not funny anymore. NBC needs to dump him and get behind Conan more. Conan isn't always my cup of tea but I like him better than Leno.
Craig Ferguson is definitely my current favorite of the whole lot, though. The puppets and the dance number lead-ins are genius.
posted by dnash at 9:31 AM on January 8, 2010
I'm with you hippybear. Fallon isn't nearly as bad as some make him out to be. He seems to have a manic desire to be liked that I can't help but appreciate.
As for Conan I think his weakest area is the interviews. In the last few years he seems to be slipping more and more into the schtick of talking about himself during interviews. After 10 years of watching him I get it: he's a tall, pasty, Irish-Catholic nerd with a mother he consistently leaves aghast.
Also, the show really lost something when it left NY and Joel Godard behind.
posted by Partario at 9:32 AM on January 8, 2010
As for Conan I think his weakest area is the interviews. In the last few years he seems to be slipping more and more into the schtick of talking about himself during interviews. After 10 years of watching him I get it: he's a tall, pasty, Irish-Catholic nerd with a mother he consistently leaves aghast.
Also, the show really lost something when it left NY and Joel Godard behind.
posted by Partario at 9:32 AM on January 8, 2010
I agree with whoever said that thing about how rad it is that The Roots are the house band on Jimmy Fallon's show.
posted by Mister_A at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I can remember when Chevy Chase was in the mix and had a similar TV show.
How long did that last before he got cancelled? A month, max?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010
How long did that last before he got cancelled? A month, max?
posted by uncanny hengeman at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010
Do you think there's a generation gap with Conan? All my friends love him; all my friends' parents can't stand him.
posted by drileynyc at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by drileynyc at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2010
The real question is: how is NBC going to fill five primetime hours a week with something cheaper than Leno? Reruns? Infomercials? Test patterns?
Arseniooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
posted by Kabanos at 9:42 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Arseniooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
posted by Kabanos at 9:42 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Leno is complete shit, COMPLETE SHIT, the definition of banality.
Did any of you hear Conan on Never Not Funny (Jimmy Pardo's podcast)? He is a genuinely seriously funny and decent guy.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:43 AM on January 8, 2010
Did any of you hear Conan on Never Not Funny (Jimmy Pardo's podcast)? He is a genuinely seriously funny and decent guy.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:43 AM on January 8, 2010
drileynyc: "Do you think there's a generation gap with Conan? All my friends love him; all my friends' parents can't stand him."
My father and I both love Conan, and quote bits from his show a lot. Of course, the plural of anecdote isn't data.
Divine_Wino: "Did any of you hear Conan on Never Not Funny (Jimmy Pardo's podcast)? He is a genuinely seriously funny and decent guy."
Yes I did, and holy shit. Very, very funny.
posted by brundlefly at 9:45 AM on January 8, 2010
My father and I both love Conan, and quote bits from his show a lot. Of course, the plural of anecdote isn't data.
Divine_Wino: "Did any of you hear Conan on Never Not Funny (Jimmy Pardo's podcast)? He is a genuinely seriously funny and decent guy."
Yes I did, and holy shit. Very, very funny.
posted by brundlefly at 9:45 AM on January 8, 2010
Heh. Years ago, I saw HBO show "The Late Shift" in the wee hours just before the end of whatever year that was -- this was weeks before it had "officially" premiered. At first I thought it was an extra-long preview, but as it went on and on I realized it was the film itself. Curious, I checked the listing and it read "To Be Announced." So I checked again a couple of (early) mornings later, and it was on again -- this time I taped it. I was posting on alt.fan.letterman at the time and mentioned it to my friend Don, who thought that perhaps it was being aired at that time for some sort of tax reason.
I sent the tape to Don, and he managed to get it into the hands of Bob Morton, then-executive producer for Letterman, who watched it (and I presume screened it for Letterman, but perhaps Letterman couldn't be assed to watch it himself). Morton made a blistering phone call to HBO about it -- the story got out to Entertainment Weekly, which mentioned that the Letterman folks had managed to see a "grade-Z copy" (which miffed me -- my parents' VCR wasn't state-at-the-art, but it wasn't that crappy, either).
Anyway, I felt sort of proud of providing a service unto Dave.
I remember Dave mocking Higgins' hairpiece in the movie for days and days. A bit later, when Spike Feresten (sp?) left the Late Show and started writing for Seinfeld, I noticed that John Michael Higgins had a part in an episode where he played a man who was completely bald, and I wondered if it was some sort of inside joke.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 9:48 AM on January 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
I sent the tape to Don, and he managed to get it into the hands of Bob Morton, then-executive producer for Letterman, who watched it (and I presume screened it for Letterman, but perhaps Letterman couldn't be assed to watch it himself). Morton made a blistering phone call to HBO about it -- the story got out to Entertainment Weekly, which mentioned that the Letterman folks had managed to see a "grade-Z copy" (which miffed me -- my parents' VCR wasn't state-at-the-art, but it wasn't that crappy, either).
Anyway, I felt sort of proud of providing a service unto Dave.
I remember Dave mocking Higgins' hairpiece in the movie for days and days. A bit later, when Spike Feresten (sp?) left the Late Show and started writing for Seinfeld, I noticed that John Michael Higgins had a part in an episode where he played a man who was completely bald, and I wondered if it was some sort of inside joke.
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 9:48 AM on January 8, 2010 [13 favorites]
I can remember when Chevy Chase was in the mix and had a similar TV show.
Wow. I remember watching 15 minutes of Chase's show. Fifteen minutes of him challenging an audience member to see who could get a rubber band off of their head faster just by using their facial muscles. It was so very painful to watch that I almost shot my TV out of pity.
posted by jeanmari at 9:48 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Wow. I remember watching 15 minutes of Chase's show. Fifteen minutes of him challenging an audience member to see who could get a rubber band off of their head faster just by using their facial muscles. It was so very painful to watch that I almost shot my TV out of pity.
posted by jeanmari at 9:48 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I knew this little experiment was going to bomb. There is no graceful way for NBC or Leno to gracefully survive the disaster. They're just going to have to man-up and admit the mistake and move on. The best thing for Leno to do is simply retire from the talk show gig completely. The half-hour-before-Conan idea just looks like what it is...face-saving triage. Too bad Conan has to be caught in the fallout of all this. If his show had been actually funny and entertaining, NBC may have had the muscle to just bid Leno adieu. As it is, now they're saddled with a sinking wreck at 10pm, and a listless hulk at 11:30 taking-on water fast.
The best answer is to just get rid of Leno and do whatever you can to get Conan going. Just clean up the wreckage and get back to work. The weak link there, of course, is Conan. He's just not that good.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on January 8, 2010
The best answer is to just get rid of Leno and do whatever you can to get Conan going. Just clean up the wreckage and get back to work. The weak link there, of course, is Conan. He's just not that good.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:49 AM on January 8, 2010
Plus, I'm amused watching someone who is basically in my generation working this format and trying to be current within the context. When he's on, I think he's right on.
I can't watch Fallon at all. I didn't like him on SNL, and I don't like him now. He seems like a decent guy and would probably enjoy hanging out with him, but he has the worst presence on camera, and his comic instincts are terrible.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:50 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I can't watch Fallon at all. I didn't like him on SNL, and I don't like him now. He seems like a decent guy and would probably enjoy hanging out with him, but he has the worst presence on camera, and his comic instincts are terrible.
posted by krinklyfig at 9:50 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Man, I love Conan. I think the problem is he's an 18-25 kind of guy, and we're apt to watch on Hulu rather than stay up late. School and work and whatnot.
That said, I might cope with a Conan-Leno Timeslot Swap. I always got the feeling late night shows were always meant for people who either worked nights or were retired.
I'm sure somebody, somewhere enjoys Leno. Although I'd be hard pressed to find one person.
posted by mccarty.tim at 9:52 AM on January 8, 2010
That said, I might cope with a Conan-Leno Timeslot Swap. I always got the feeling late night shows were always meant for people who either worked nights or were retired.
I'm sure somebody, somewhere enjoys Leno. Although I'd be hard pressed to find one person.
posted by mccarty.tim at 9:52 AM on January 8, 2010
Fallon isn't nearly as bad as some make him out to be. He seems to have a manic desire to be liked that I can't help but appreciate.
That's the problem! Man ...
posted by krinklyfig at 9:54 AM on January 8, 2010
That's the problem! Man ...
posted by krinklyfig at 9:54 AM on January 8, 2010
I think Conan should use this month to share his true unfiltered genius with the NBC viewers. Just go all out. And then he should walk away and let NBC go up in flames. I mean Conan's monologue background is Super Mario Bros. (or not, whatever, it's cool as hell that Conan went with it anyway).
And really, what did NBC think was going to happen when they left that huge gap between Late Night ending and the Tonight Show starting. People found alternatives. Conan deserves more time, but honestly he should just tell NBC to fuck off for treating him so badly. Plus, he might have more freedom elsewhere.
Jay Leno should move on already. He's not funny and he's in no way relevant. Go away Jay! I just hope that Jimmy Fallon gets to stay because his show has really grown on me and the Roots are the best Late Night band ever.
posted by wherever, whatever at 9:55 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
And really, what did NBC think was going to happen when they left that huge gap between Late Night ending and the Tonight Show starting. People found alternatives. Conan deserves more time, but honestly he should just tell NBC to fuck off for treating him so badly. Plus, he might have more freedom elsewhere.
Jay Leno should move on already. He's not funny and he's in no way relevant. Go away Jay! I just hope that Jimmy Fallon gets to stay because his show has really grown on me and the Roots are the best Late Night band ever.
posted by wherever, whatever at 9:55 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I used to be in a band with Conan's cousin Ed who played trumpet. He looked like him too.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate
posted by wheelieman at 9:57 AM on January 8, 2010
We now return you to your regularly scheduled debate
posted by wheelieman at 9:57 AM on January 8, 2010
Man, I love Conan. I think the problem is he's an 18-25 kind of guy
I find this mystifying. I went to college with Conan and my assumption is that the only people who find people our age funny are other people our age, mas o menos a decade.
But it's the same thing with The Daily Show, which 18-25-year-old folks also seem to love.
When I was 18-25, nobody I knew would have dreamed of watching some 47-year-old guy's talk show on TV. We were all about the punk and the zines or whatever.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:57 AM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
I find this mystifying. I went to college with Conan and my assumption is that the only people who find people our age funny are other people our age, mas o menos a decade.
But it's the same thing with The Daily Show, which 18-25-year-old folks also seem to love.
When I was 18-25, nobody I knew would have dreamed of watching some 47-year-old guy's talk show on TV. We were all about the punk and the zines or whatever.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:57 AM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Wow, that came of as an "off my lawn" comment, but what I meant to say was "thank you younger people for not rejecting my age cohort as boring and unfunny."
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:59 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:59 AM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
The best answer is to just get rid of Leno and do whatever you can to get Conan going. Just clean up the wreckage and get back to work. The weak link there, of course, is Conan. He's just not that good.
No, I think he's fine. It took Letterman years to get established in his NBC timeslot, and after he moved to CBS he consistently trailed Leno in ratings, but his show is a juggernaut all the same. Give Conan time to get used to the new digs and tell him to be a bit more demure in the meantime, definitely keep Richter and give him McMahon's role, and find the best writers possible and retain them as long as possible. He'll get it going if they do this. Letterman isn't going to be doing this forever, and before too long Conan will have the timeslot to himself. Although, the whole idea of a late night talk show was predicated on few choices and predictable routines. Since then the number of channels has exploded, and owning a television isn't always a priority anymore. Not sure how much longer they can milk this format on this scale anyway, but there will always be late night talk shows.
But, someone, please make Leno retire.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:01 AM on January 8, 2010
No, I think he's fine. It took Letterman years to get established in his NBC timeslot, and after he moved to CBS he consistently trailed Leno in ratings, but his show is a juggernaut all the same. Give Conan time to get used to the new digs and tell him to be a bit more demure in the meantime, definitely keep Richter and give him McMahon's role, and find the best writers possible and retain them as long as possible. He'll get it going if they do this. Letterman isn't going to be doing this forever, and before too long Conan will have the timeslot to himself. Although, the whole idea of a late night talk show was predicated on few choices and predictable routines. Since then the number of channels has exploded, and owning a television isn't always a priority anymore. Not sure how much longer they can milk this format on this scale anyway, but there will always be late night talk shows.
But, someone, please make Leno retire.
posted by krinklyfig at 10:01 AM on January 8, 2010
I like Conan and don't have much love for Leno, but I have to admit that I hardly ever watch Conan anymore after he moved to 11:30. Used to watch him at 12:30 all the time. I guess I'm part of the problem.
Still, splitting the time slot is a stupid idea and will essentially destroy the Tonight Show as a brand and institution, so I find it very hard to believe that's the way this will end. The right thing to do is for Leno to go away like he said he would, and for NBC to give Conan enough time to find his audience, just as they did when he first started at 12:30.
posted by spilon at 10:10 AM on January 8, 2010
Still, splitting the time slot is a stupid idea and will essentially destroy the Tonight Show as a brand and institution, so I find it very hard to believe that's the way this will end. The right thing to do is for Leno to go away like he said he would, and for NBC to give Conan enough time to find his audience, just as they did when he first started at 12:30.
posted by spilon at 10:10 AM on January 8, 2010
If I was head of NBC I would just cancel all the shows after 10 and make one new show that ran from 10 to 1 called prize hunt: the hunt for the prize. People would travel the world and compete in challenges in search of the prize. There would also be interviews with celebs and musical acts. And topical jokes. One of the contestents would be in a wheel chair. His catch phrase would be "I don't need your help, I can do it by myself." After the show would be a recap show called Re-Prize hosted by Jimmy Fallon. At the end of the season one of the contestents wins the prize which is a gift certificate for one hug. He has to pretend not to be disappointed. Also it will have two and a half men (cops). Burt Reynolds. The kid from cop and a half. And some other cop. Thank you.
posted by I Foody at 10:14 AM on January 8, 2010 [17 favorites]
posted by I Foody at 10:14 AM on January 8, 2010 [17 favorites]
Incidentally, if anyone is desperate to get their hands on a copy of The Late Shift, I can direct you to a Walgreens in Chicago that had 50 VHS copies of it, or at least did from 2002 to 2007. I can't imagine they've gone anywhere.
posted by Copronymus at 10:18 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by Copronymus at 10:18 AM on January 8, 2010
@shakespherian: I don't know about the negotiations but Leno makes $20-30 million a year. NBC gets ~200 episodes for that money. The rest of his show is very cheap to produce, so NBC can get an hour of programming for $250,000 (?) versus $2 million (The Wire) and up for a scripted hour long drama (ER at it's peak cost $13 million per episode.)
posted by theclaw at 10:20 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by theclaw at 10:20 AM on January 8, 2010
The Roots outclass Jimmy Fallon so hard, it's painful to watch. The reason I can't watch Jimmy Fallon—besides the fact that he's not funny—is because I feel so embarrassed for him.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:21 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by vibrotronica at 10:21 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
But that said, if I were him, I think I'd bail go somewhere else, and do something different.
I'd bet he's contractually prevented from doing something like that. I'm really curious what the new Conaco (?) company that gets credit at the end of the show actually owns.
Conan in LA has just never felt right to me. I'm not at all sure WHY this is true. I like Andy, I love Conan's humor. But the most of the 'bits' have felt wrong on the left coast. With the notable exception of some of the getting to know the neighborhood, and voiceover bits. I still watch them all, timeshifted to the weekend, but I generally laugh more at the nightly bit on Jimmy Fallon. (Yes, I know, that makes me uncool)
posted by DigDoug at 10:26 AM on January 8, 2010
I'd bet he's contractually prevented from doing something like that. I'm really curious what the new Conaco (?) company that gets credit at the end of the show actually owns.
Conan in LA has just never felt right to me. I'm not at all sure WHY this is true. I like Andy, I love Conan's humor. But the most of the 'bits' have felt wrong on the left coast. With the notable exception of some of the getting to know the neighborhood, and voiceover bits. I still watch them all, timeshifted to the weekend, but I generally laugh more at the nightly bit on Jimmy Fallon. (Yes, I know, that makes me uncool)
posted by DigDoug at 10:26 AM on January 8, 2010
I vote that we replace Leno with Zack Galifianakis' show, "Between Two Ferns"!.
Oh! Look! Here's Conan and Andy on the show!
/derail, OFF
posted by willmize at 10:31 AM on January 8, 2010 [8 favorites]
Oh! Look! Here's Conan and Andy on the show!
/derail, OFF
posted by willmize at 10:31 AM on January 8, 2010 [8 favorites]
willmize, I was just about to post that video. I was introduced to Between Two Ferns last week and it's great.
I've always been a fan of Conan, but I don't really enjoy the Tonight Show much. The humor is a bit generic and bland for my taste.
Never watched Leno, don't find him funny, could care less what he does.
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 10:41 AM on January 8, 2010
I've always been a fan of Conan, but I don't really enjoy the Tonight Show much. The humor is a bit generic and bland for my taste.
Never watched Leno, don't find him funny, could care less what he does.
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 10:41 AM on January 8, 2010
Galifianakis actually had a sortof latenight talkshowish VH1 show for a short time (just checked and VH1 still has their website for it up Late World with Zach). At the time I used to watch it, I remember the most hilarious episode being the one after they'd told him it was cancelled. Must try to track these down again.
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:45 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:45 AM on January 8, 2010
willmize, that made my day. And my day doesn't usually start until at least noon so whoa.
posted by wherever, whatever at 11:03 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by wherever, whatever at 11:03 AM on January 8, 2010
I couldn't stand Fallon on SNL because in every. single. sketch. he was blatantly looking straight into the camera out of the corner of his eye and stifling a giggle like he'd just smoked a huge blunt in his mom's room.
Now that he has a talk show I see that that's actually just the way his face looks.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:08 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now that he has a talk show I see that that's actually just the way his face looks.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:08 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Go to commercial...The Late Shift is available on Netflix if anyone is interested.
posted by arcticseal at 11:11 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by arcticseal at 11:11 AM on January 8, 2010
I only watch Leno talk about cars. That's what he should stick to.
posted by Eideteker at 11:14 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Eideteker at 11:14 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I had the opportunity to be in the audience for Conan's then-new Tonight Show last year (his second show, June 2) and came away totally entertained and kind of sore from laughing so hard. There was so much excitement and positive energy in that studio. However, I left with the eerie feeling that NBC wouldn't be able to let Conan do his thing and find his 11:30 legs. Sometimes I hate being right.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:20 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by Servo5678 at 11:20 AM on January 8, 2010
I've got to throw my hat in with the Pro Conan crowd. I have never thought that Leno was that funny at all and it really galled me at the time that he got the show instead of Conan, who--at the time--was way funnier. He still is funny, but he's not nearly as good as he was. It's great to see Andy back, though.
I haven't once watched Craig Ferguson, but based on some of the comments here I'll have to give him a shot. The only thing I can actually remember him doing was The Drew Carey Show.
I'll be the first to admit that he's had a few problems finding his sea legs, but I think Jimmy Fallon does the interview segments in late night better than anyone else on right now. Sure he has had more than a few stupid segments, but his audience participation things can be amusing (when they're not totally horrible), he really does nail the guest interaction bits, and he has THE ROOTS!
Plus, I'm amused watching someone who is basically in my generation working this format and trying to be current within the context. When he's on, I think he's right on.
It is shocking--SHOCKING--to me that I'm going to say this, given how much I absolutely hated him on SNL, but I agree 100% with this. Jimmy Fallon, in the late night talk show format--is great. His skits are funny, he gets cool guests and does great interviews, the audience sections are fun . . . and the MFing ROOTS! Also agreeing that it's nice to see someone in my age bracket hosting a late night talk show as well.
posted by kaiseki at 11:39 AM on January 8, 2010
I haven't once watched Craig Ferguson, but based on some of the comments here I'll have to give him a shot. The only thing I can actually remember him doing was The Drew Carey Show.
I'll be the first to admit that he's had a few problems finding his sea legs, but I think Jimmy Fallon does the interview segments in late night better than anyone else on right now. Sure he has had more than a few stupid segments, but his audience participation things can be amusing (when they're not totally horrible), he really does nail the guest interaction bits, and he has THE ROOTS!
Plus, I'm amused watching someone who is basically in my generation working this format and trying to be current within the context. When he's on, I think he's right on.
It is shocking--SHOCKING--to me that I'm going to say this, given how much I absolutely hated him on SNL, but I agree 100% with this. Jimmy Fallon, in the late night talk show format--is great. His skits are funny, he gets cool guests and does great interviews, the audience sections are fun . . . and the MFing ROOTS! Also agreeing that it's nice to see someone in my age bracket hosting a late night talk show as well.
posted by kaiseki at 11:39 AM on January 8, 2010
Conan never updated his shtick when he moved to Late Night. It's the same "Isn't it amazing that people as goofy and incompetent as us have been given something liek this?" routine he did for years on his late show, and it wore thin quite quickly there -- his old show was mostly saved by some very inventive gag writers who concocted some ery, very funny bits.
But Conan's biggest problem is that he can't interview people. He's simply incapable of listening. An interview is just on opportunity for him to interrupt with jokes -- and he's not really quick enough on his feet to dazzle with his interruptions, like Groucho was. Letterman also interrupts, but it's because he's not interested in having his show used for crassly promotional reasons, especially when he doesn't like what's being promoted, and so won't put up with that shit, and has never been impressed or frightened enough by celebretydom to suck up to them. But, for Conan, it's a neurotic, reflexive need to constantly creack wise, and it really does an injustice when he has a genuinely awesome guest who can't get a word in edgewise. Conan is not good at asking follow up questions, or helping a guest to shape a story in any way, and I can't tell you how many stories I have seen fizzle on his show because Conan killed it with an interruption and it just never really got back on course. He's not an interviewer; he's closer to a heckler.
And fine, that was his show. But the Tonight Show is Johnny Carson's house. Screw Jay Leno -- I never watched him. It was Carson. And the one thing he was, above everything else, was a gracious host. When somebody was sitting opposite him at the desk, they were the most important person in the room, and, by virtue of that fact, the most important person in America. And Carson was very generous with that -- if somebody was interesting, be they a movie star or some weird old woman from Hoboken who happened to have a hobby, they got time in the chair. Sure, he would tease, although primcipally through his reactions -- Carson knew that sometimes the person who is being quiet is the strongest presence in the room. But he never pulled focus. His reactions were about the person in the chair. They were the subject. They were the star when they were on. And it's the opposite with Conon. He's constantly fighting for attention, and it just gets echausting to watch.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:41 AM on January 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
But Conan's biggest problem is that he can't interview people. He's simply incapable of listening. An interview is just on opportunity for him to interrupt with jokes -- and he's not really quick enough on his feet to dazzle with his interruptions, like Groucho was. Letterman also interrupts, but it's because he's not interested in having his show used for crassly promotional reasons, especially when he doesn't like what's being promoted, and so won't put up with that shit, and has never been impressed or frightened enough by celebretydom to suck up to them. But, for Conan, it's a neurotic, reflexive need to constantly creack wise, and it really does an injustice when he has a genuinely awesome guest who can't get a word in edgewise. Conan is not good at asking follow up questions, or helping a guest to shape a story in any way, and I can't tell you how many stories I have seen fizzle on his show because Conan killed it with an interruption and it just never really got back on course. He's not an interviewer; he's closer to a heckler.
And fine, that was his show. But the Tonight Show is Johnny Carson's house. Screw Jay Leno -- I never watched him. It was Carson. And the one thing he was, above everything else, was a gracious host. When somebody was sitting opposite him at the desk, they were the most important person in the room, and, by virtue of that fact, the most important person in America. And Carson was very generous with that -- if somebody was interesting, be they a movie star or some weird old woman from Hoboken who happened to have a hobby, they got time in the chair. Sure, he would tease, although primcipally through his reactions -- Carson knew that sometimes the person who is being quiet is the strongest presence in the room. But he never pulled focus. His reactions were about the person in the chair. They were the subject. They were the star when they were on. And it's the opposite with Conon. He's constantly fighting for attention, and it just gets echausting to watch.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:41 AM on January 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
they pay Leno chickenfeed,
false: "Estimates are that Leno 2.0 may only cost $2M a week and result in 46 weeks of original shows, compared to the average $3 million per episode pricetag of scripted primetime dramas that air on average 22 original weekly episodes." (nikki finke)
because he has no agent
false. that's di caprio.
and always lowballs NBC when it's time to renew his contract
$45 million due if they cancel leno says: false.
try some research first.
posted by krautland at 11:45 AM on January 8, 2010
false: "Estimates are that Leno 2.0 may only cost $2M a week and result in 46 weeks of original shows, compared to the average $3 million per episode pricetag of scripted primetime dramas that air on average 22 original weekly episodes." (nikki finke)
because he has no agent
false. that's di caprio.
and always lowballs NBC when it's time to renew his contract
$45 million due if they cancel leno says: false.
try some research first.
posted by krautland at 11:45 AM on January 8, 2010
Astro Zombie I disagree completely. I think the guests like Conan's silliness. I like that Conan doesn't put the celebrities on a pedestal and fawn over them. He makes them laugh by taking shots at himself. GOLD!
posted by wherever, whatever at 11:59 AM on January 8, 2010
posted by wherever, whatever at 11:59 AM on January 8, 2010
That doesn't sound like you're disagreeing. It sounds like you agree that he constantly interrupts his guests and doesn't know how to do an interview, but you like that.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:12 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:12 PM on January 8, 2010
they pay Leno chickenfeed,
false: "Estimates are that Leno 2.0 may only cost $2M a week and result in 46 weeks of original shows, compared to the average $3 million per episode pricetag of scripted primetime dramas that air on average 22 original weekly episodes." (nikki finke)
That's $2M a week for Leno versus $3M a night for scripted drama. Or $2M versus $15M a week. And Leno's show gives them 46 weeks of new shows a year as compared to 22 weeks of scripted shows, possibly with some mid-season or summer filler shows.
posted by stopgap at 12:15 PM on January 8, 2010
false: "Estimates are that Leno 2.0 may only cost $2M a week and result in 46 weeks of original shows, compared to the average $3 million per episode pricetag of scripted primetime dramas that air on average 22 original weekly episodes." (nikki finke)
That's $2M a week for Leno versus $3M a night for scripted drama. Or $2M versus $15M a week. And Leno's show gives them 46 weeks of new shows a year as compared to 22 weeks of scripted shows, possibly with some mid-season or summer filler shows.
posted by stopgap at 12:15 PM on January 8, 2010
There's no entertainment in fawning is all I'm saying.
posted by wherever, whatever at 12:17 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by wherever, whatever at 12:17 PM on January 8, 2010
You don't have to fawn to do a good interview.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:23 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:23 PM on January 8, 2010
I am very glad to see that happen. Not because I am such a Leno fan (though I do like Headlines). It is because I dislike Conan.
posted by Drasher at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by Drasher at 12:25 PM on January 8, 2010
Are people still honestly that interested in watching a host interview a movie star shilling? I mean, don't we all get our movie previews and pop culture coverage from other sources these days? Conan doesn't do great interviews but I've never cared because I'd generally rather dig out my eyes than watch anybody interview anyone. I almost enjoy that he's not great at it simply because I'd rather watch Conan act like a fool next to a celebrity than actually pretend they're interesting and talk seriously to them.
Also, I loathe Jay Leno. Not just his show, him. He sucks a notable quantity of funny out of the whole universe. But of course the real problem with the whole late night business is that changing audiences and viewer patterns means there's way fewer people for whom it makes sense to pencil in a dedicated hour (let alone from 10 till 1) at bedtime every night for a show when they can just get a good night's sleep and watch the funny bits online the next day, thus avoiding dreadful interviews and musical guests all together.
posted by mostlymartha at 12:36 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, I loathe Jay Leno. Not just his show, him. He sucks a notable quantity of funny out of the whole universe. But of course the real problem with the whole late night business is that changing audiences and viewer patterns means there's way fewer people for whom it makes sense to pencil in a dedicated hour (let alone from 10 till 1) at bedtime every night for a show when they can just get a good night's sleep and watch the funny bits online the next day, thus avoiding dreadful interviews and musical guests all together.
posted by mostlymartha at 12:36 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
NBC really screwed up on this one. The Leno Show needed a backup plan, just as every show you put on primetime needs a couple of replacement shows on the bench ready when that show's ratings tank midseason.
And they should have known that five nights of Leno in the 10pm slot risked the same sort of oversaturation that ABC had with Millionaire -- and for that matter, NBC had with Dateline in the first half of the 2000s. Just because a show is cheap to produce doesn't mean you fill your lineup with it.
And honestly they're way over a barrel on the Leno-Conan problem. It's probably cheaper to just outright dump Conan and reinstall Leno at the Tonight Show, but now you've just pissed off the 18-35 demo that is watching Conan and either driven them to Letterman, Colbert, or whatever gig Conan ends up with on Fox or cable. Or you cut the $45M check to Leno and Fox immediately signs him to do a late-night show for them, meaning now you're fighting Jimmy Kimmel for the crumbs that are left. Or you try this 30 minute Leno show knowing full well it's not going to work long-term. And while we're at it, can you get those five hours of primetime filled without resorting to a half-season of Dateline oversaturation or USA series reruns, both of which won't really help the affiliates bail out their hurting late newscasts?
NBC may be our first failed broadcast network. All their problems stem from sports, I think -- first losing the AFC package to CBS in '98, then re-upping the Notre Dame football package instead of trying to get the Big Ten/Big XII/Pac Ten/SEC away from ESPN, and finally so overinvesting in the Olympics that they're jettisoned all their other sports and left themselves with a couple of Triple Crown races, some random golf tournaments, a handful of NHL games, and I don't know what else because all the sports are on the other three big networks. As for scripted shows they stuck with Friends for far too long and had nothing developed to replace it. What they have now that's good remains on the air because they draw the coveted 18-35 audience... and also because they have nothing else to put on the air.
NBC doesn't have the money to fix the Leno-Conan mess, much less the money to bid for a sports package (or even just nurture the NHL along, which could really take off now that with HD you can actually see the puck) or the money to really cast the net wide and look for some scripted shows that could either be appointment TV (e.g. Lost) or just shows that the 35-54 audience will watch dependably (e.g. CSI). I wonder if Comcast is just going to make the broadcast network a subsidiary of the cable division and let them run Dexter reruns in the 10pm slot in order to promote USA. NBC's not even the Big Three anymore. It's just a hollowed out mess of a TV network.
posted by dw at 12:40 PM on January 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
And they should have known that five nights of Leno in the 10pm slot risked the same sort of oversaturation that ABC had with Millionaire -- and for that matter, NBC had with Dateline in the first half of the 2000s. Just because a show is cheap to produce doesn't mean you fill your lineup with it.
And honestly they're way over a barrel on the Leno-Conan problem. It's probably cheaper to just outright dump Conan and reinstall Leno at the Tonight Show, but now you've just pissed off the 18-35 demo that is watching Conan and either driven them to Letterman, Colbert, or whatever gig Conan ends up with on Fox or cable. Or you cut the $45M check to Leno and Fox immediately signs him to do a late-night show for them, meaning now you're fighting Jimmy Kimmel for the crumbs that are left. Or you try this 30 minute Leno show knowing full well it's not going to work long-term. And while we're at it, can you get those five hours of primetime filled without resorting to a half-season of Dateline oversaturation or USA series reruns, both of which won't really help the affiliates bail out their hurting late newscasts?
NBC may be our first failed broadcast network. All their problems stem from sports, I think -- first losing the AFC package to CBS in '98, then re-upping the Notre Dame football package instead of trying to get the Big Ten/Big XII/Pac Ten/SEC away from ESPN, and finally so overinvesting in the Olympics that they're jettisoned all their other sports and left themselves with a couple of Triple Crown races, some random golf tournaments, a handful of NHL games, and I don't know what else because all the sports are on the other three big networks. As for scripted shows they stuck with Friends for far too long and had nothing developed to replace it. What they have now that's good remains on the air because they draw the coveted 18-35 audience... and also because they have nothing else to put on the air.
NBC doesn't have the money to fix the Leno-Conan mess, much less the money to bid for a sports package (or even just nurture the NHL along, which could really take off now that with HD you can actually see the puck) or the money to really cast the net wide and look for some scripted shows that could either be appointment TV (e.g. Lost) or just shows that the 35-54 audience will watch dependably (e.g. CSI). I wonder if Comcast is just going to make the broadcast network a subsidiary of the cable division and let them run Dexter reruns in the 10pm slot in order to promote USA. NBC's not even the Big Three anymore. It's just a hollowed out mess of a TV network.
posted by dw at 12:40 PM on January 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
As for scripted shows they stuck with Friends for far too long and had nothing developed to replace it. What they have now that's good remains on the air because they draw the coveted 18-35 audience... and also because they have nothing else to put on the air.
As long as this forces them to keep 30 Rock on the air, good.
posted by graventy at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2010
As long as this forces them to keep 30 Rock on the air, good.
posted by graventy at 12:58 PM on January 8, 2010
How about this schedule:
11:35-12:05 Jay Leno
12:05-12:35: Conan
12:35-12:40: Magic Johnson
12:40-1:00: Joan Rivers
1:00-1:05: Chevy
1:05-1:35: Merv Griffin
posted by cell divide at 1:08 PM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
11:35-12:05 Jay Leno
12:05-12:35: Conan
12:35-12:40: Magic Johnson
12:40-1:00: Joan Rivers
1:00-1:05: Chevy
1:05-1:35: Merv Griffin
posted by cell divide at 1:08 PM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Do I have to mention He Who Shall Not Be Named again?
I want to see Mike Bullard as the new Chris Elliott on Letterman. But with abusive skits and ritual humiliation.
Leno is shit, but c'mon, an Anyone? Bueller? on the blue is not going to scratch his fanbase. Mefites are nowhere close to his demographic.
He has fans. And they're fond of him. That seems to be about the extent of his appeal.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:09 PM on January 8, 2010
I want to see Mike Bullard as the new Chris Elliott on Letterman. But with abusive skits and ritual humiliation.
Leno is shit, but c'mon, an Anyone? Bueller? on the blue is not going to scratch his fanbase. Mefites are nowhere close to his demographic.
He has fans. And they're fond of him. That seems to be about the extent of his appeal.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:09 PM on January 8, 2010
Astro Zombie I know what you are saying regarding Carson and guests, but let's also look at who the guests were and are.
Guests back then came prepared. They were funny, interesting, and had prepared material. They were personalities who were on because they were good guests, not just because they had a movie or project (actually, often they didn't) to promote.
Today's starlets don't have any life experience, Conan is doing his best to make them bearable.
posted by cell divide at 1:11 PM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Guests back then came prepared. They were funny, interesting, and had prepared material. They were personalities who were on because they were good guests, not just because they had a movie or project (actually, often they didn't) to promote.
Today's starlets don't have any life experience, Conan is doing his best to make them bearable.
posted by cell divide at 1:11 PM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I've watched both Conan and Leno try to demonstrate genuine interest in young starlets with nothing interesting or intelligent to say. They don't pull it off, and it's painful to watch. Letterman doesn't bother, and that's at least entertaining.
How about some Steve Allen on your schedule? It's surprising how little the craft has changed.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:29 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
How about some Steve Allen on your schedule? It's surprising how little the craft has changed.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:29 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Several truths:
1) The opinions of the average mefite and the opinions of the general public do not necessarily overlap. Especially viz. Leno vs. Conan. The blogosphere in general is off base on this one.
2) Not all of broadcast television is destroyed equally. Had NBC kept Leno and Conan where they were, this debacle would never have occurred. "The Tonight Show" is indeed a relic of broadcast television, but it managed to make broadcast television relevant to at least the portion of people who were still watching Leno since 1992. Habit cannot be discounted.
3) Jay Leno is important to NBC because the network is realizing it is not simply a matter of capturing a demographic anymore, it is a matter of recognizing disparities in the means by which various demographics consume media. Jay Leno may not be big among any sexy demographic groups, but he is probably fairly popular among precisely the people who are most likely to be limited to traditional broadcast television. Not everyone in America has cable, hulu, or DVR. The people who are most likely to have no access to the choice provided by cable or internet are probably also the people most likely to prefer Leno to Conan at 11:35. Leno is softball, passive entertainment. The same active engagement required to "get" Conan is apt to propel someone to actively seek out Conan.
4) Is there anyone on earth who does not think that Jeff Zucker is the worst thing to happen to television ever? One catastrophic failure after another. Does anyone remember the glory days of my adolescence when Seinfeld, Friends, etc were the best shows on television? Why has Zucker not been fired?
posted by jefficator at 1:37 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
1) The opinions of the average mefite and the opinions of the general public do not necessarily overlap. Especially viz. Leno vs. Conan. The blogosphere in general is off base on this one.
2) Not all of broadcast television is destroyed equally. Had NBC kept Leno and Conan where they were, this debacle would never have occurred. "The Tonight Show" is indeed a relic of broadcast television, but it managed to make broadcast television relevant to at least the portion of people who were still watching Leno since 1992. Habit cannot be discounted.
3) Jay Leno is important to NBC because the network is realizing it is not simply a matter of capturing a demographic anymore, it is a matter of recognizing disparities in the means by which various demographics consume media. Jay Leno may not be big among any sexy demographic groups, but he is probably fairly popular among precisely the people who are most likely to be limited to traditional broadcast television. Not everyone in America has cable, hulu, or DVR. The people who are most likely to have no access to the choice provided by cable or internet are probably also the people most likely to prefer Leno to Conan at 11:35. Leno is softball, passive entertainment. The same active engagement required to "get" Conan is apt to propel someone to actively seek out Conan.
4) Is there anyone on earth who does not think that Jeff Zucker is the worst thing to happen to television ever? One catastrophic failure after another. Does anyone remember the glory days of my adolescence when Seinfeld, Friends, etc were the best shows on television? Why has Zucker not been fired?
posted by jefficator at 1:37 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Leno sux as a host. He should never have left stand-up (he was great in the 80s). Conan and Craig are consistently funny and are great hosts. Letterman is a religion.
posted by HyperBlue at 1:52 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by HyperBlue at 1:52 PM on January 8, 2010
Ahhh yes, The Fruitcake Lady was the best thing Jay ever had on his version of the Tonight Show.
"Keep Miss Puss clean.." 2:44 Still makes me LOL.
posted by HyperBlue at 1:59 PM on January 8, 2010
"Keep Miss Puss clean.." 2:44 Still makes me LOL.
posted by HyperBlue at 1:59 PM on January 8, 2010
But Conan's biggest problem is that he can't interview people. He's simply incapable of listening. An interview is just on opportunity for him to interrupt with jokes -- and he's not really quick enough on his feet to dazzle with his interruptions, like Groucho was.
I agree with your point about him not being a good interviewer, but I don't think it's because he's not quick on his feet. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak at length outside the context of his talk show—for example, this podcast interview referred to upthread—it becomes immediately obvious just how razor sharp his wit really is. The problem is that the natural tenor of his wit is almost entirely negative, biting, and destructive, or in TV terms: not very nice. And while those attributes are essential to writing withering satirical pieces for the Harvard Lampoon, or a comedy sketch about a pair of self-hating losers painfully and repeatedly striking out with "the ladies", or a TV show episode in which a well-meaning college administrator is permanently crippled directly owing to the actions of the show's hero, they are antithetical to a good interviewing style for something as light-hearted and generally boosterish as a TV chat show.
I think Conan knows this, and tries to overcompensate by letting the other side of his comic personality—the class clown/dancing monkey—fully take over. And while I think that type of buffoonery goes over big with live studio audiences, on TV it sometimes reads as sweaty and desperate, which is an impression the old-time pros (Carson, Letterman, etc.) never put across.
All that being said, when he's really on (and I think his Tonight Show stint has dramatically improved over the last couple months) I think he's the best thing going in late night.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I agree with your point about him not being a good interviewer, but I don't think it's because he's not quick on his feet. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak at length outside the context of his talk show—for example, this podcast interview referred to upthread—it becomes immediately obvious just how razor sharp his wit really is. The problem is that the natural tenor of his wit is almost entirely negative, biting, and destructive, or in TV terms: not very nice. And while those attributes are essential to writing withering satirical pieces for the Harvard Lampoon, or a comedy sketch about a pair of self-hating losers painfully and repeatedly striking out with "the ladies", or a TV show episode in which a well-meaning college administrator is permanently crippled directly owing to the actions of the show's hero, they are antithetical to a good interviewing style for something as light-hearted and generally boosterish as a TV chat show.
I think Conan knows this, and tries to overcompensate by letting the other side of his comic personality—the class clown/dancing monkey—fully take over. And while I think that type of buffoonery goes over big with live studio audiences, on TV it sometimes reads as sweaty and desperate, which is an impression the old-time pros (Carson, Letterman, etc.) never put across.
All that being said, when he's really on (and I think his Tonight Show stint has dramatically improved over the last couple months) I think he's the best thing going in late night.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm not a big fan of Jimmy Fallon but he's not going anywhere and I'll tell you why: because he's the ultimate fanboy host and to the younger demographic that holds a lot of appeal.
posted by squeakyfromme at 2:09 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by squeakyfromme at 2:09 PM on January 8, 2010
Carson was a magician.
I mean that both figuratively and literally, of course. Nobody interviews idiots like Carson did. He would get some sweet young flavor-of-the-month actor (male or female) with nothing but air between the ears and somehow get three funny minutes out of them without mocking them relentlessly. Letterman takes the easy way out most of the time.
The interesting thing about the whole NBC flailing all over the map is that the person in charge of that, Jeff Zucker, also went to college with Conan O'Brien (and me). I believe this to be a complete coincidence--I don't think Zucker has some long-simmering schooldays vendetta against O'Brien--but it shows what a small world the US entertainment industry can be sometimes.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:31 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I mean that both figuratively and literally, of course. Nobody interviews idiots like Carson did. He would get some sweet young flavor-of-the-month actor (male or female) with nothing but air between the ears and somehow get three funny minutes out of them without mocking them relentlessly. Letterman takes the easy way out most of the time.
The interesting thing about the whole NBC flailing all over the map is that the person in charge of that, Jeff Zucker, also went to college with Conan O'Brien (and me). I believe this to be a complete coincidence--I don't think Zucker has some long-simmering schooldays vendetta against O'Brien--but it shows what a small world the US entertainment industry can be sometimes.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:31 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why has Zucker not been fired?
I've been wondering this for years. My guess: photos of Jack Welch with a prostitute.
posted by DigDoug at 3:00 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've been wondering this for years. My guess: photos of Jack Welch with a prostitute.
posted by DigDoug at 3:00 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, anyone saying Conan is missing something in the wit department, needs to watch the bits of him back during the writer's strike. Some of the funniest stuff ever on the show (sorry writers)
posted by DigDoug at 3:05 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by DigDoug at 3:05 PM on January 8, 2010
Remain perfectly still, only I may dance.
posted by The Whelk at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 3:14 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
NBC may be our first failed broadcast network.
*cough*
posted by evilcolonel at 3:54 PM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
*cough*
posted by evilcolonel at 3:54 PM on January 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Now I've had the Craig Ferguson theme song stuck in my head all day. THANKS, METAFILTER.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:37 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:37 PM on January 8, 2010
*cough*
Yes, though DuMont was more the victim of circumstance than incompetence. Had UHF been able to compete equally with VHF in the 1950s, DuMont would still be around.
NBC is just flushing itself down the toilet.
posted by dw at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2010
Yes, though DuMont was more the victim of circumstance than incompetence. Had UHF been able to compete equally with VHF in the 1950s, DuMont would still be around.
NBC is just flushing itself down the toilet.
posted by dw at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2010
OK, so what's the actual skinny on the digs Leno apparently gave NBC in his monologues? Can't find any transcripts or video.
posted by IAmBroom at 5:33 PM on January 8, 2010
posted by IAmBroom at 5:33 PM on January 8, 2010
OK, so what's the actual skinny on the digs Leno apparently gave NBC in his monologues? Can't find any transcripts or video.
I believe this is what you want. He's dusted off the old "NBC means 'Never Believe your Contract'" joke from 1993.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:49 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I believe this is what you want. He's dusted off the old "NBC means 'Never Believe your Contract'" joke from 1993.
posted by Servo5678 at 5:49 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I went to college with Conan and my assumption is that the only people who find people our age funny are other people our age, mas o menos a decade...
...The interesting thing about the whole NBC flailing all over the map is that the person in charge of that, Jeff Zucker, also went to college with Conan O'Brien (and me).
We get it, you went to Harvard.
posted by one_bean at 6:14 PM on January 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
...The interesting thing about the whole NBC flailing all over the map is that the person in charge of that, Jeff Zucker, also went to college with Conan O'Brien (and me).
We get it, you went to Harvard.
posted by one_bean at 6:14 PM on January 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
Letterman used to rib GE/NBC mercilessly when he was on after Carson. "Four-way bulb" was his favorite whipping boy. Also, I am old.
posted by Mister_A at 6:17 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 6:17 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
If I was head of NBC I would just cancel all the shows after 10 and make one new show that ran from 10 to 1 called prize hunt: the hunt for the prize.
Kenneth Ellen Parcell, is that you?!
posted by Spatch at 7:06 PM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Kenneth Ellen Parcell, is that you?!
posted by Spatch at 7:06 PM on January 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Also, anyone saying Conan is missing something in the wit department, needs to watch the bits of him back during the writer's strike. Some of the funniest stuff ever on the show (sorry writers)
Yeah, that's what I mean. If they give the Tonight show some time and let his personality come through, it will work. And give him great writers for the skits, etc., but he works well when he's not trying so hard and has space to be himself.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2010
Yeah, that's what I mean. If they give the Tonight show some time and let his personality come through, it will work. And give him great writers for the skits, etc., but he works well when he's not trying so hard and has space to be himself.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2010
If it was up to me I'd just cancel them both and start rerunning old episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I'd tune in to that every night.
posted by gfrobe at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by gfrobe at 7:44 PM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
In my fantasy world, NBC takes this opportunity to hire the 30 funniest comedy teams/improv troupes/lunatic-experimental-theater-comedy-writer-directors in America to produce 30 zero-budget half-hours up to Standards & Practices spec, fills six weeks of nightly half-hours with that shit, wins the title Only Avant-Garde Comedy Network, and locks the hungriest of those fuckers into multi-year contracts. Each episode of Mr. Show probably cost as much as a Wii (maybe with a couple of games thrown in); if ratings are already in the toilet, it's time to farm for some of that Storied Internet Comedy. Cheaper than $1.5M/week scripted drama, god knows.
Time to call the kids up from the minors, is what I'm saying.
But this is not my fantasy world.
posted by waxbanks at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
Time to call the kids up from the minors, is what I'm saying.
But this is not my fantasy world.
posted by waxbanks at 8:12 PM on January 8, 2010 [4 favorites]
NBC won't block Conan from walking - Fox reportedly happy to talk
The irony here is that the thing that is really motivating NBC to make this change is the Leno Show cannibalizing the affiliates' local newscasts, and yet when they fill in their 10pm slot with aging Law & Order episodes or Datelines or reruns it's very likely that the affiliates' ratings will stay low or continue to drop due to the poor lead-ins. But there's not much they can do about it now, they really are in a shitty situation of their own making.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:52 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
The irony here is that the thing that is really motivating NBC to make this change is the Leno Show cannibalizing the affiliates' local newscasts, and yet when they fill in their 10pm slot with aging Law & Order episodes or Datelines or reruns it's very likely that the affiliates' ratings will stay low or continue to drop due to the poor lead-ins. But there's not much they can do about it now, they really are in a shitty situation of their own making.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:52 PM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
That's $2M a week for Leno versus $3M a night for scripted drama.
which both isn't chickenfeed. the NYT just mentioned conan and jay make roughly $50mil annually from nbc.
Is there anyone on earth who does not think that Jeff Zucker is the worst thing to happen to television ever?
yes, here. ben silverman takes the pot.
posted by krautland at 4:37 AM on January 9, 2010
which both isn't chickenfeed. the NYT just mentioned conan and jay make roughly $50mil annually from nbc.
Is there anyone on earth who does not think that Jeff Zucker is the worst thing to happen to television ever?
yes, here. ben silverman takes the pot.
posted by krautland at 4:37 AM on January 9, 2010
Craig Ferguson has definitely become my favorite late night host. He is so dynamic and engaged in every part of his show, and the interviews are actual conversations, sometimes completely brilliant ones. He sometimes does the silly ba-dum-bum late-nite jokes, but flows through them easily and takes note of how bad they are on the way and makes random, much funnier comments as he goes, so that it never really feels stale.
But what makes it so good to me is the "anything goes" attitude - the interview is definitely not just a promo-fest - if they know each other you legitimately feel like you're listening to them hang out, and otherwise Craig will ask random questions and get them talking about something unexpected. It doesn't seem like a pre-planned "so tell us about that time that funny story happened..." or a boring "and what else will you be doing in the near future?" It's much more mutual interests and real life that come up.
I like Letterman, I really used to love his show, but I feel like he's gotten bored and a bit mean and would rather be hanging out with his son than these stupid starlets sometimes (plus 4 days a week Colbert cuts into half his show anyway... and that's a religion). But he's still funny, and also smart and informed, while never coming off as if he thinks so, even when he has more facts than the guests (he somehow acts like he just accidentally knows stuff). Conan was funnier when he didn't have the burden of the Tonight Show. He is more NY / sarcastic than he's allowed to be in that slot, and it just doesn't quite fit.
I haven't watched Fallon since the beginning, and I'm not sure anything could make me give him another chance. The memories are simply too painful...
posted by mdn at 9:02 AM on January 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
But what makes it so good to me is the "anything goes" attitude - the interview is definitely not just a promo-fest - if they know each other you legitimately feel like you're listening to them hang out, and otherwise Craig will ask random questions and get them talking about something unexpected. It doesn't seem like a pre-planned "so tell us about that time that funny story happened..." or a boring "and what else will you be doing in the near future?" It's much more mutual interests and real life that come up.
I like Letterman, I really used to love his show, but I feel like he's gotten bored and a bit mean and would rather be hanging out with his son than these stupid starlets sometimes (plus 4 days a week Colbert cuts into half his show anyway... and that's a religion). But he's still funny, and also smart and informed, while never coming off as if he thinks so, even when he has more facts than the guests (he somehow acts like he just accidentally knows stuff). Conan was funnier when he didn't have the burden of the Tonight Show. He is more NY / sarcastic than he's allowed to be in that slot, and it just doesn't quite fit.
I haven't watched Fallon since the beginning, and I'm not sure anything could make me give him another chance. The memories are simply too painful...
posted by mdn at 9:02 AM on January 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
he somehow acts like he just accidentally knows stuff
Sometimes when I'm making dinner I'll pretend to be David Letterman making dinner. "Hey honey, where did you put those... those green vegetables, you know? They're called zucchini, right? Zucchini?"
posted by roll truck roll at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Sometimes when I'm making dinner I'll pretend to be David Letterman making dinner. "Hey honey, where did you put those... those green vegetables, you know? They're called zucchini, right? Zucchini?"
posted by roll truck roll at 2:01 PM on January 9, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best part of this thread is the news in krautland's link that they're making a Rockford Files reboot. I haven't watched any late night shows in years, and I feel bad for Conan and Andy, but seriously...Jim Rockford, folks.
posted by ivey at 7:09 PM on January 9, 2010
posted by ivey at 7:09 PM on January 9, 2010
I'm a little late to the party, but I don't read the blue that much, other than when I want to find a post on a specific current event. Anyway......
I was bummed when they moved Conan to the Tonight Show because it meant 1) He was going to LA which I felt changed the mood a lot, and 2) I now have to decide between Letterman and Conan. Letterman was almost a personal hero of mine since I was 11 or so, but lately I've felt kind of let down by the whole sex scandal/an interview I read with a former female member (the only one) of his writing staff, so I've watched Conan.
I've been pretty impressed with Conan since they moved. They had to make things tamer, and the skits seem a little more dry, but still funny. The Thanksgiving episode where Conan and those guys go eat at the restaurant slayed me. It was hilarious. Then the Pee-Wee Herman pageant was so funny, too. However, I agree that Conan's manner and constant interruption are annoying.
But most importantly, what's going to happen to awful Carson Daly? Why does his show even exist? They would almost certainly have better ratings airing reruns of almost anything in his spot.
posted by ishotjr at 10:41 PM on January 9, 2010
I was bummed when they moved Conan to the Tonight Show because it meant 1) He was going to LA which I felt changed the mood a lot, and 2) I now have to decide between Letterman and Conan. Letterman was almost a personal hero of mine since I was 11 or so, but lately I've felt kind of let down by the whole sex scandal/an interview I read with a former female member (the only one) of his writing staff, so I've watched Conan.
I've been pretty impressed with Conan since they moved. They had to make things tamer, and the skits seem a little more dry, but still funny. The Thanksgiving episode where Conan and those guys go eat at the restaurant slayed me. It was hilarious. Then the Pee-Wee Herman pageant was so funny, too. However, I agree that Conan's manner and constant interruption are annoying.
But most importantly, what's going to happen to awful Carson Daly? Why does his show even exist? They would almost certainly have better ratings airing reruns of almost anything in his spot.
posted by ishotjr at 10:41 PM on January 9, 2010
NBC Officially Cancels Leno At 10PM: Nothing Else A Done Deal
BREAKING NEWS!
SESSION ONGOING BUT HERE'S JEFF GASPIN'S FIRST STATEMENT:
"Let me get right to it. The Jay Leno Show. On Feb.12, Jay Leno will no longer air at 10 p.m. While it was performing at acceptable levels for the network, it did not meet our affiliates needs, and we realized we had to make a change. My goal right now is to keep Jay, Conan and Jimmy as part of our late night line up. I have spoken to all of them and proposed that the JL show move to 11:35, Conan move to 12:05 and Jimmy to late night at 1:05. As much as I would like to tell you it’s a done deal, we know that’s not true, “ adds that the talks are ongoing.
posted by krautland at 10:23 AM on January 10, 2010
BREAKING NEWS!
SESSION ONGOING BUT HERE'S JEFF GASPIN'S FIRST STATEMENT:
"Let me get right to it. The Jay Leno Show. On Feb.12, Jay Leno will no longer air at 10 p.m. While it was performing at acceptable levels for the network, it did not meet our affiliates needs, and we realized we had to make a change. My goal right now is to keep Jay, Conan and Jimmy as part of our late night line up. I have spoken to all of them and proposed that the JL show move to 11:35, Conan move to 12:05 and Jimmy to late night at 1:05. As much as I would like to tell you it’s a done deal, we know that’s not true, “ adds that the talks are ongoing.
posted by krautland at 10:23 AM on January 10, 2010
I haven't watched Conan much since his move to The Tonight Show, because it runs against The Colbert Report. But if Conan does move to 12:05, that means I can once again fit him into my late-night viewing habits, after Stewart and Colbert.
I couldn't possibly be the only one either. I remember there being concerns last year that Conan's viewers and Colbert's overlapped, and that Conan's move would hurt one or the other. So, as insulting as this 12:05 change looks on the outside, maybe it'll actually help Conan's ratings?
posted by zerbinetta at 12:53 PM on January 10, 2010
I couldn't possibly be the only one either. I remember there being concerns last year that Conan's viewers and Colbert's overlapped, and that Conan's move would hurt one or the other. So, as insulting as this 12:05 change looks on the outside, maybe it'll actually help Conan's ratings?
posted by zerbinetta at 12:53 PM on January 10, 2010
But most importantly, what's going to happen to awful Carson Daly? Why does his show even exist? They would almost certainly have better ratings airing reruns of almost anything in his spot.
posted by ishotjr
Not certain if this is still the case, but I couple years ago I found on the L.A. craiglist, ads to make $8/an hour to be in the audience of Carson Daly's show. The entire thing must be a tax write off, THEY LITERALLY ARE PAYING PEOPLE TO WATCH!
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by ishotjr
Not certain if this is still the case, but I couple years ago I found on the L.A. craiglist, ads to make $8/an hour to be in the audience of Carson Daly's show. The entire thing must be a tax write off, THEY LITERALLY ARE PAYING PEOPLE TO WATCH!
posted by haveanicesummer at 8:23 AM on January 11, 2010
They've changed the format of Carson Daly's show. He tapes interviews on location or in a studio, and there's no audience, so he doesn't try as hard to be funny and doesn't bother doing comedy bits. It's actually a much better format for him...or at least a lot less painful to watch.
posted by zerbinetta at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2010
posted by zerbinetta at 9:09 AM on January 11, 2010
I feel really bad for Conan in all this. Even if he leaves for a bigger/better deal at Fox, it seems like he still ends up with this huge black mark on his career that he doesn't deserve. If they actually give Leno back the Tonight Show and his ratings swoop upwards again, then the narrative for years to come will be that Conan's Tonight Show was some kind of huge disaster, which really isn't true.
posted by anazgnos at 3:48 PM on January 11, 2010
posted by anazgnos at 3:48 PM on January 11, 2010
In a statement addressed to "People of Earth", Conan says he is not playing ball.
posted by vibrotronica at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by vibrotronica at 12:38 PM on January 12, 2010 [4 favorites]
GO CONAN!
posted by billysumday at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by billysumday at 1:18 PM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
It really is a great statement. Conan is a fabulous writer, and he is responding incredibly professionally:
posted by jabberjaw at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
In the last few days, I’ve been getting a lot of sympathy calls, and I want to start by making it clear that no one should waste a second feeling sorry for me. For 17 years, I’ve been getting paid to do what I love most and, in a world with real problems, I’ve been absurdly lucky. That said, I’ve been suddenly put in a very public predicament and my bosses are demanding an immediate decision.And he makes an excellent point, in my view:
For 60 years the Tonight Show has aired immediately following the late local news. I sincerely believe that delaying the Tonight Show into the next day to accommodate another comedy program will seriously damage what I consider to be the greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting. The Tonight Show at 12:05 simply isn’t the Tonight Show.He also says that "I currently have no other offer and honestly have no idea what happens next." All the more power to him.
posted by jabberjaw at 1:22 PM on January 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Conan O'Brien is a class act and he deserves better treatment than this.
posted by ColdChef at 1:24 PM on January 12, 2010
posted by ColdChef at 1:24 PM on January 12, 2010
Where's my Team Conan t-shirt?
posted by billysumday at 1:27 PM on January 12, 2010
posted by billysumday at 1:27 PM on January 12, 2010
So he's not moving and he's not staying. He's presenting this as being pushed out. Does this keep his contract (and compensation) intact?
posted by mazola at 2:00 PM on January 12, 2010
posted by mazola at 2:00 PM on January 12, 2010
That statement pretty much proves Conan is Carson's true heir.
So he's not moving and he's not staying. He's presenting this as being pushed out. Does this keep his contract (and compensation) intact?
At this point they'd have to fire him under the terms of his contract. I have no idea what they are, but my guess is there's a payout in the tens of millions for early termination without cause. They could try to terminate with cause, but they wouldn't last five seconds in court, and it'd be another goodwill disaster for NBC.
Ultimately, Leno is going to be back in late night. Question is whether it'll be on NBC or on Fox. How that comes about depends on whether NBC wants to stick with their original plan or whether they want to truly be the Never Believe your Contract company.
It's hard to believe NBC is actually making themselves look stupider than they did in putting Leno in prime time -- and that they've managed to make us all forget (for the moment) Letterman's sex scandals.
posted by dw at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2010
So he's not moving and he's not staying. He's presenting this as being pushed out. Does this keep his contract (and compensation) intact?
At this point they'd have to fire him under the terms of his contract. I have no idea what they are, but my guess is there's a payout in the tens of millions for early termination without cause. They could try to terminate with cause, but they wouldn't last five seconds in court, and it'd be another goodwill disaster for NBC.
Ultimately, Leno is going to be back in late night. Question is whether it'll be on NBC or on Fox. How that comes about depends on whether NBC wants to stick with their original plan or whether they want to truly be the Never Believe your Contract company.
It's hard to believe NBC is actually making themselves look stupider than they did in putting Leno in prime time -- and that they've managed to make us all forget (for the moment) Letterman's sex scandals.
posted by dw at 2:25 PM on January 12, 2010
http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/on-the-web-a-wave-of-support-for-conan-obrien/
posted by anazgnos at 3:14 PM on January 12, 2010
posted by anazgnos at 3:14 PM on January 12, 2010
Actually, the decision to move Leno to 11:35 makes NBC look not only stupid, but also cheap, out of touch, and kind of like a bully.
posted by jabberjaw at 5:04 PM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jabberjaw at 5:04 PM on January 12, 2010 [2 favorites]
According to TMZ, assuming Conan walks it will be The Tonight Show with Jay Leno at 11:35.
posted by Rhomboid at 5:46 PM on January 12, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 5:46 PM on January 12, 2010
billysumday: "Where's my Team Conan t-shirt?"
I'm sure there'll be one soon.
posted by subbes at 11:21 PM on January 12, 2010
I'm sure there'll be one soon.
posted by subbes at 11:21 PM on January 12, 2010
Anyone else think Conan do a show every night at 10p on Fox and beat the hell out of the ratings that Leno got at 10p on NBC?? That's a thought right there.
posted by dogwalker at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2010
posted by dogwalker at 12:54 PM on January 13, 2010
Hitler breaks his legendary silence about the NBC late night debacle.
posted by minifigs at 1:47 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by minifigs at 1:47 AM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
ZUCKER THREATENS TO ICE CONAN! "I'll Keep You Off The Air For 3 1/2 Years"
posted by dig_duggler at 9:58 AM on January 14, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 9:58 AM on January 14, 2010
Conan out, NBC and Leno reach deal for one hour Tonight Show.
posted by billysumday at 2:04 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by billysumday at 2:04 PM on January 14, 2010
Well, shit.
posted by brundlefly at 2:09 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by brundlefly at 2:09 PM on January 14, 2010
Considering how strong Conan's tv writing was, I always wanted to see him head a more scripted show, but that could be my general dislike of the chat show format coming through.
posted by The Whelk at 2:12 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 2:12 PM on January 14, 2010
Considering how strong Conan's tv writing was, I always wanted to see him head a more scripted show, but that could be my general dislike of the chat show format coming through.
Yeah, I agree, but if you were Conan I think it'd be pretty hard to give up 5 hours a week of being the producer/host/writer/everything to be a writer for a sitcom or something. But I do get what you're saying.
posted by billysumday at 2:15 PM on January 14, 2010
Yeah, I agree, but if you were Conan I think it'd be pretty hard to give up 5 hours a week of being the producer/host/writer/everything to be a writer for a sitcom or something. But I do get what you're saying.
posted by billysumday at 2:15 PM on January 14, 2010
His version of Late Night was always more of a mixture between chat and sketch show. It would be nice to see him move to another network and start something with a similar mix, but maybe tending towards the later.
posted by brundlefly at 2:17 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by brundlefly at 2:17 PM on January 14, 2010
Like a nightly, live version of 30 Rock. Without... you know... ripping off 30 Rock.
posted by brundlefly at 2:18 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by brundlefly at 2:18 PM on January 14, 2010
My brother and I were talking and the best thing that could happen is if Conan develops this amazing voice and then gets another show and then that show becomes the second coming of "The Dean Martin Variety Show."
posted by billysumday at 2:22 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by billysumday at 2:22 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Conan out, NBC and Leno reach deal for one hour Tonight Show.
If this is true, it makes both NBC and Leno look like huge assholes.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:25 PM on January 14, 2010
If this is true, it makes both NBC and Leno look like huge assholes.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:25 PM on January 14, 2010
While it might hold up, nobody but TMZ is reporting it.
posted by dig_duggler at 2:46 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 2:46 PM on January 14, 2010
Meanwhile, the Peacock peeps are also denying a TMZ report that the backstabbing and backlashed Jay Leno has signed a new contract with NBC reinstating him as the host of The Tonight Show at his old time slot of 11:35 p.m.
posted by dig_duggler at 2:48 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 2:48 PM on January 14, 2010
(not that I trust NBC)
posted by dig_duggler at 2:48 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 2:48 PM on January 14, 2010
Am I the only one who thinks the more this drags out Leno can't just go back? I'm not sure he doesn't come out of this pretty damaged to the point NBC's dreams about getting back the ratings they used to have are about as well thought out as the past week.
posted by dig_duggler at 2:51 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 2:51 PM on January 14, 2010
I just can't stop myself:
THURSDAY 2:15 PM, 5TH UPDATE: NBC isn't confirming Internet reports of a done deal that Jay is in, Conan is out, as host of The Tonight Show at 11:35 PM. According to my insiders, Team Conan is denying the reports. But O'Brien's reps acknowledge: "It's a very fluid situation". Meanwhile, I've learned Team Conan didn't know NBC had just put out that press release boasting about Conan's heated-up ratings. "He's been killing in recent weeks. NBC can see that."
posted by dig_duggler at 3:05 PM on January 14, 2010
THURSDAY 2:15 PM, 5TH UPDATE: NBC isn't confirming Internet reports of a done deal that Jay is in, Conan is out, as host of The Tonight Show at 11:35 PM. According to my insiders, Team Conan is denying the reports. But O'Brien's reps acknowledge: "It's a very fluid situation". Meanwhile, I've learned Team Conan didn't know NBC had just put out that press release boasting about Conan's heated-up ratings. "He's been killing in recent weeks. NBC can see that."
posted by dig_duggler at 3:05 PM on January 14, 2010
I hope he comes out of this with a lot of money or a reduction/removal of his non-compete clause.
posted by subbes at 3:33 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by subbes at 3:33 PM on January 14, 2010
That's brilliant, Artw.
posted by brundlefly at 4:36 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by brundlefly at 4:36 PM on January 14, 2010
From billysumday's link:
The rivalry dates back to the 1980s when both were enrolled at Harvard. In an eerie parallel, Zucker edited the Crimson daily newspaper while O'Brien ran Lampoon, a humor magazine.
And now you know ... the rest of the story.
posted by jabberjaw at 6:01 PM on January 14, 2010
The rivalry dates back to the 1980s when both were enrolled at Harvard. In an eerie parallel, Zucker edited the Crimson daily newspaper while O'Brien ran Lampoon, a humor magazine.
And now you know ... the rest of the story.
posted by jabberjaw at 6:01 PM on January 14, 2010
Jimmy Kimmel basically tells Leno "FUCK YOU." On Leno's own show.
Some choice quotes, courtesy Kimmel:
[Asked by Leno what the best prank he ever pulled was] "The best prank I ever pulled was I told a guy that—five years from now—I'm gonna give you my show. And then when the five years came, I gave it to him, and then I took it back almost instantly."
[Asked by Leno if he ever orders anything off of the TV] "Like NBC ordered your show off the TV?"
[Asked by Leno what the record is for number of lap dances he's received in one night] "Strippers, I don't like in general. Because you have this phony relationship with them for money, similar to that of when you and Conan were on The Tonight Show together, passing the torch... you know what I'm saying."
[Asked by Leno what he hasn't yet hosted, but would like to] "Oh, this is a trick, right? Where you get me to host The Tonight Show and then take it back from me?"
[Asked why he came on to do the segment] "Listen, Jay, Conan and I have children—all you have to take care of is cars. I mean, we have lives to lead here. You've got $800 million, for God's sakes—leave our shows alone."
posted by ColdChef at 8:44 PM on January 14, 2010 [8 favorites]
Some choice quotes, courtesy Kimmel:
[Asked by Leno what the best prank he ever pulled was] "The best prank I ever pulled was I told a guy that—five years from now—I'm gonna give you my show. And then when the five years came, I gave it to him, and then I took it back almost instantly."
[Asked by Leno if he ever orders anything off of the TV] "Like NBC ordered your show off the TV?"
[Asked by Leno what the record is for number of lap dances he's received in one night] "Strippers, I don't like in general. Because you have this phony relationship with them for money, similar to that of when you and Conan were on The Tonight Show together, passing the torch... you know what I'm saying."
[Asked by Leno what he hasn't yet hosted, but would like to] "Oh, this is a trick, right? Where you get me to host The Tonight Show and then take it back from me?"
[Asked why he came on to do the segment] "Listen, Jay, Conan and I have children—all you have to take care of is cars. I mean, we have lives to lead here. You've got $800 million, for God's sakes—leave our shows alone."
posted by ColdChef at 8:44 PM on January 14, 2010 [8 favorites]
Notwithstanding the unconfirmed shuffling news in the past couple of days, I don't see why Leno has any blame in this debacle.
AIUI, 5 years ago, Conan's contract was set to expire in a couple of years hence & NBC thought Leno would start to fade soon, so they offered Conan 11:35 from 2009 and asked Leno to move out, but that this wasn't Leno's idea. As it starts to get to 2009, NBC sees that Leno's ratings are still good, and they don't want to lose him to another network, AND their primetime dramas aren't doing too well either, so they go the cheap route and offer Leno his current show. NBC has a fairly good idea of what audience to expect (cf. Leno's joke couple of days ago that he was doing as well as expected and he's being cancelled), but don't account/care for the lower lead-in & its cascade into Conan. So Conan's ratings suffer (not helped by his fans not watching the broadcast), affiliates go beserk, the current hoop-la occurs.
I don't see what Leno's fault is in this. I don't see that he was ethically obligated to retire from talk-show television, as many seem to imply, simply because his NBC 11:35 contract expired. And he wasn't supposed to achieve primetime ratings aimilar to dramas; clearly NBC knew that and was comfortable with it. So what's Leno fault in this?
posted by Gyan at 9:51 PM on January 14, 2010
AIUI, 5 years ago, Conan's contract was set to expire in a couple of years hence & NBC thought Leno would start to fade soon, so they offered Conan 11:35 from 2009 and asked Leno to move out, but that this wasn't Leno's idea. As it starts to get to 2009, NBC sees that Leno's ratings are still good, and they don't want to lose him to another network, AND their primetime dramas aren't doing too well either, so they go the cheap route and offer Leno his current show. NBC has a fairly good idea of what audience to expect (cf. Leno's joke couple of days ago that he was doing as well as expected and he's being cancelled), but don't account/care for the lower lead-in & its cascade into Conan. So Conan's ratings suffer (not helped by his fans not watching the broadcast), affiliates go beserk, the current hoop-la occurs.
I don't see what Leno's fault is in this. I don't see that he was ethically obligated to retire from talk-show television, as many seem to imply, simply because his NBC 11:35 contract expired. And he wasn't supposed to achieve primetime ratings aimilar to dramas; clearly NBC knew that and was comfortable with it. So what's Leno fault in this?
posted by Gyan at 9:51 PM on January 14, 2010
See: Jay Leno: The Self-Styled Forrest Gump of Late Night?
posted by mazola at 10:00 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 10:00 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't see why Leno has any blame in this debacle.
Much as I hate Leno, I have to agree. NBC screwed this up royally. Leno's ratings were strong and likely would have stayed strong for quite a few years to come. At the same time, Conan was doing pretty well against Ferguson. But Conan had hit the ceiling at Late Night, and Leno probably had 10 years in the tank. Leno didn't want to leave, but NBC felt obliged to push him off lest they lose Conan, and it was made easier by giving Leno the 10pm show. All this wrangling is about NBC avoiding the $80M breach of contract payment to Leno and the $50M one to Conan.
What should have happened in 2008 was NBC should have told Conan, "Look, Leno's not leaving any time soon, and his ratings are great. So, we're not giving you the Tonight Show right now. You can either stay at 12:30 another five years and see whether he's still around then, or you can walk. We don't want you to walk, we'll give you a pay raise to try and keep you from walking, but we'll understand if you do." And then Conan would have jumped to Fox or ABC, leaving NBC with Leno and Fallon and in better shape than they are at this moment.
This is all about Zucker and NBC being cheap. It's what drove them to slash their sports contracts, what drove them to fill the slate with reality shows, and what drove them to put Leno at 10. They're trying to be the Yankees at an A's budget, but they're running the team like the Mets instead of like a Moneyball team. Lots of really stupid, splashy signings that ultimately get pilloried in the media with the drama playing out in the public sphere, but because they're running the place so cheaply they don't have the money to cut their losses nor to fix the problems they have. And just like the Mets, they finished in fourth place.
posted by dw at 10:39 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Much as I hate Leno, I have to agree. NBC screwed this up royally. Leno's ratings were strong and likely would have stayed strong for quite a few years to come. At the same time, Conan was doing pretty well against Ferguson. But Conan had hit the ceiling at Late Night, and Leno probably had 10 years in the tank. Leno didn't want to leave, but NBC felt obliged to push him off lest they lose Conan, and it was made easier by giving Leno the 10pm show. All this wrangling is about NBC avoiding the $80M breach of contract payment to Leno and the $50M one to Conan.
What should have happened in 2008 was NBC should have told Conan, "Look, Leno's not leaving any time soon, and his ratings are great. So, we're not giving you the Tonight Show right now. You can either stay at 12:30 another five years and see whether he's still around then, or you can walk. We don't want you to walk, we'll give you a pay raise to try and keep you from walking, but we'll understand if you do." And then Conan would have jumped to Fox or ABC, leaving NBC with Leno and Fallon and in better shape than they are at this moment.
This is all about Zucker and NBC being cheap. It's what drove them to slash their sports contracts, what drove them to fill the slate with reality shows, and what drove them to put Leno at 10. They're trying to be the Yankees at an A's budget, but they're running the team like the Mets instead of like a Moneyball team. Lots of really stupid, splashy signings that ultimately get pilloried in the media with the drama playing out in the public sphere, but because they're running the place so cheaply they don't have the money to cut their losses nor to fix the problems they have. And just like the Mets, they finished in fourth place.
posted by dw at 10:39 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think people are blaming Leno because he made the decision in 2004 to give up the 11:35 seat, and signed a contract to that effect. When his 10:00 show didn't work out (not necessarily due to anything on his part) I think the expectation should have been for him to work on a different project or just retire entirely, not to renege on the deal and accept the 11:35 offer again after giving it up. Yeah yeah, he wasn't technically reneging because Conan would have still been the head of the Tonight Show but as his letter explained you can't really shuffle things around like that and still call it the Tonight Show.
I think people also blame Leno because there's this perception that he is old, stodgy, repetitive, and unfunny and has had his fair share of the limelight, and that Conan is fresher and newer and has been patiently waiting for his go all these years.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:50 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think people also blame Leno because there's this perception that he is old, stodgy, repetitive, and unfunny and has had his fair share of the limelight, and that Conan is fresher and newer and has been patiently waiting for his go all these years.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:50 PM on January 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, that first show after the Olympics with Leno back at 11:35 as the Tonight Show will be the most awkward moment in television history. You can practically feel the virtual tomatoes being readied to be thrown at the screen.
posted by Rhomboid at 11:02 PM on January 14, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 11:02 PM on January 14, 2010
Jimmy Kimmel is my new hero. That was brilliant television.
posted by minifigs at 1:26 AM on January 15, 2010
posted by minifigs at 1:26 AM on January 15, 2010
What Rombold said.
Leno knew the terms of the deal. Add in how he got the Tonight Show in the first place and it doesn't help. He isn't ethically bound to retire and let Conan have his day, but it would have been the classy thing to do. As far as Conan's numbers, Leno had crap numbers his first two years (until he lucked into his famous Hugh Grant interview). Conan also had a crap lead-in (the local news, whose numbers were decimated by Leno). It's impossible to say if Conan would have turned things around and reached Jay like numbers, but he was never given a chance. His numbers have been quite good the last two weeks. If NBC were smart, they'd milk this, get his numbers up and see what happens. But I think we know they aren't.
posted by dig_duggler at 4:11 AM on January 15, 2010
Leno knew the terms of the deal. Add in how he got the Tonight Show in the first place and it doesn't help. He isn't ethically bound to retire and let Conan have his day, but it would have been the classy thing to do. As far as Conan's numbers, Leno had crap numbers his first two years (until he lucked into his famous Hugh Grant interview). Conan also had a crap lead-in (the local news, whose numbers were decimated by Leno). It's impossible to say if Conan would have turned things around and reached Jay like numbers, but he was never given a chance. His numbers have been quite good the last two weeks. If NBC were smart, they'd milk this, get his numbers up and see what happens. But I think we know they aren't.
posted by dig_duggler at 4:11 AM on January 15, 2010
Yeah between this and the way Leno originally got the Tonight Show from under Letterman's nose, Leno seems like the least classy guy in television. And I'm including Carson Daly in that.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:02 AM on January 15, 2010
posted by shakespeherian at 7:02 AM on January 15, 2010
Poor Carson Daly, he's become an international figure of ridicule because of something he has no involvement with whatsoever.
posted by minifigs at 7:26 AM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by minifigs at 7:26 AM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I blame Carson Daly for all of this.
posted by haveanicesummer at 7:43 AM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by haveanicesummer at 7:43 AM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't see why Leno has any blame in this debacle.
I think a pretty good analysis of Leno's fault in the whole thing can be found in this piece by Andy Ihnatko: Jay Leno: The Self-Styled Forrest Gump of Late Night? He says a lot of what Rhomboid and dig_duggler have said and more. Leno has been going along with all this stuff in sort of a "Who, me?" kind of way, acting like he's just a pawn in NBC's scheme, that he has no say in it whatsoever, that he's being forced to kick Conan out of his spot by the big mean executives, that little old him doesn't have a conniving bone in his body.
Bull. Shit.
posted by Captain Cardanthian! at 8:55 AM on January 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think a pretty good analysis of Leno's fault in the whole thing can be found in this piece by Andy Ihnatko: Jay Leno: The Self-Styled Forrest Gump of Late Night? He says a lot of what Rhomboid and dig_duggler have said and more. Leno has been going along with all this stuff in sort of a "Who, me?" kind of way, acting like he's just a pawn in NBC's scheme, that he has no say in it whatsoever, that he's being forced to kick Conan out of his spot by the big mean executives, that little old him doesn't have a conniving bone in his body.
Bull. Shit.
posted by Captain Cardanthian! at 8:55 AM on January 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm outraged!
I much prefer not watching The Tonight Show w/Conan O'Brien to not watching The Tonight Show w/Jay Leno.
posted by mazola at 9:04 AM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I much prefer not watching The Tonight Show w/Conan O'Brien to not watching The Tonight Show w/Jay Leno.
posted by mazola at 9:04 AM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
NBC Executive Dick Ebersol Trashes Conan: 'Astounding Failure,' 'Chicken-Hearted And Gutless'. Here's the NY Times interview.
Maybe it's just a legend, but I've heard TV executives didn't believe that the public would watch football on Sundays, because that's when people go on picnics and ride horses. We're seeing this happen again: executives don't really understand anyone but the out-of-touch 10% they're still appealing to.
I mean, come on. I actually watched the beginning of the Jay Leno show last night because I was curious to see if he'd say anything about this. A video about a guy knocking down his garage? A gay yoga joke? This was supposed to be the Tivo-proof primetime killer? It feels so tired. NBC could do themselves a favor by hiring at least one person who knows that this stuff is garbage.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:46 AM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's just a legend, but I've heard TV executives didn't believe that the public would watch football on Sundays, because that's when people go on picnics and ride horses. We're seeing this happen again: executives don't really understand anyone but the out-of-touch 10% they're still appealing to.
I mean, come on. I actually watched the beginning of the Jay Leno show last night because I was curious to see if he'd say anything about this. A video about a guy knocking down his garage? A gay yoga joke? This was supposed to be the Tivo-proof primetime killer? It feels so tired. NBC could do themselves a favor by hiring at least one person who knows that this stuff is garbage.
posted by roll truck roll at 10:46 AM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
But won't someone think of Andy?
Heh. FWIW I'm enjoying all of this in a way I've never enjoyed The Tonight Show before.
posted by mazola at 11:30 AM on January 15, 2010
Heh. FWIW I'm enjoying all of this in a way I've never enjoyed The Tonight Show before.
posted by mazola at 11:30 AM on January 15, 2010
From the Ebersol story-- He added that “what this is really all about is an astounding failure by Conan.”
I know it's his job to trash Conan, or perhaps he's GOING ROGUE! But that's hilarious. NBC is now pretending that they always expected these kind of ratings from Leno, but they obviously intended for his ratings to remain as high as the premier, not to keep sinking every week. Their experiment failed in that too much hinged on it. Did Conan fail? Leno said back in August that he went through the same thing.
NBC could come out of this looking even worse than before, and letting people like Ebersol say stupid things to the media will just make them look even worse. He claims to "like Conan enormously personally" but do you slag off people to the NYTimes that you enormously like? What an idiot.
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:06 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I know it's his job to trash Conan, or perhaps he's GOING ROGUE! But that's hilarious. NBC is now pretending that they always expected these kind of ratings from Leno, but they obviously intended for his ratings to remain as high as the premier, not to keep sinking every week. Their experiment failed in that too much hinged on it. Did Conan fail? Leno said back in August that he went through the same thing.
NBC could come out of this looking even worse than before, and letting people like Ebersol say stupid things to the media will just make them look even worse. He claims to "like Conan enormously personally" but do you slag off people to the NYTimes that you enormously like? What an idiot.
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:06 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, regardless of what happens on NBC, we know Craig Ferguson will keep winning the only poll that matters.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:37 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:37 PM on January 15, 2010
Response to the Ebersol story:
"This is the essence of NBC's problems," the Conan insider told TV MoJoe. "Conan O'Brien is losing his job because he didn't take the comedy notes of a 62-year-old sports producer."
Ha. Nice.
posted by rewil at 12:48 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
"This is the essence of NBC's problems," the Conan insider told TV MoJoe. "Conan O'Brien is losing his job because he didn't take the comedy notes of a 62-year-old sports producer."
Ha. Nice.
posted by rewil at 12:48 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Do these people not have bosses that should be firing them around about now?
posted by Artw at 1:04 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:04 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: Do these people not have bosses that should be firing them around about now?
posted by mazola at 1:51 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 1:51 PM on January 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Artw, I can't favorite your comment hard enough. As a longstanding fan of Conan's, I must say that I don't know if hosting The Tonight Show is the best use of his talents. But one thing I have learned from this whole debacle: Zucker has no business running a frozen banana stand, much less a broadcast network. Maybe the reason that Conan's press release struck such a nerve with people is that we have seen this same dynamic played out over and over again during the financial collapse of the last couple of years: A bunch of executives fuck things up beyond all recognition while enriching themselves, then go on to respond to the mess they created by firing the competent people in the company, and then pat themselves on the back for "making the tough decisions" while the product, and the company, goes down the tubes. The story of the last few years has been the story of the utter failure of the business class.
Also, Ebersol can eat a bag of syphilitic horse dicks.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:08 PM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, Ebersol can eat a bag of syphilitic horse dicks.
posted by vibrotronica at 2:08 PM on January 15, 2010 [2 favorites]
Now, when people say it'll take Conan six, or nine or twelve months to get back on the air with a new show (assuming the non-compete clause is a non-issue)...
I looked it up and was surprised to see that Letterman's CBS debut was just two months after his last episode on NBC. Maybe he was already developing the CBS show while finishing up the NBC gig, which Conan won't have the luxury of doing, but still, that's a quick turnaround. Why would it take Conan so much longer?
posted by anazgnos at 3:25 PM on January 15, 2010
I looked it up and was surprised to see that Letterman's CBS debut was just two months after his last episode on NBC. Maybe he was already developing the CBS show while finishing up the NBC gig, which Conan won't have the luxury of doing, but still, that's a quick turnaround. Why would it take Conan so much longer?
posted by anazgnos at 3:25 PM on January 15, 2010
I believe Letterman's contract ran out and he was free to do what he wanted, whereas Conan will have to negotiate the terms of ending his contract (and NBC will certainly want to squelch any momentum Conan has).
posted by dig_duggler at 3:32 PM on January 15, 2010
posted by dig_duggler at 3:32 PM on January 15, 2010
Who the hell is NBC going to stick on the air when Leno actually does retire? Carson Daly?
If the Tonight Show still exists after that, they will likely have someone who has an even steeper hill to climb than Conan did. If I were a Comcast exec right now, I'd be writing Zucker and everyone else involved in this a nice big You're Fired Special of Celebrity Apprentice. These people have zero longterm thinking as to their network, as evidenced by just about everything they've done with it Post-Friends/Seinfeld.
posted by haveanicesummer at 9:22 AM on January 16, 2010
If the Tonight Show still exists after that, they will likely have someone who has an even steeper hill to climb than Conan did. If I were a Comcast exec right now, I'd be writing Zucker and everyone else involved in this a nice big You're Fired Special of Celebrity Apprentice. These people have zero longterm thinking as to their network, as evidenced by just about everything they've done with it Post-Friends/Seinfeld.
posted by haveanicesummer at 9:22 AM on January 16, 2010
Who the hell is NBC going to stick on the air when Leno actually does retire? Carson Daly?
That's assuming they can get anyone to take the job at all. Whoever the poor schmuck is should insist on advance payment, in cash.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:25 AM on January 16, 2010
That's assuming they can get anyone to take the job at all. Whoever the poor schmuck is should insist on advance payment, in cash.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:25 AM on January 16, 2010
$30M
Hey Conan, C-Man, Paleforce Five, what up? So I heard you got some money recently but you ost your show. Suxors I know but hear me out I can fix like both those problems in three words.
Absurd. Midnight. Show.
You all the cool stuff you wanted to do but couldn't or the things you wanted to say to people during interviews or the crazy shit formed in the back of your mind while making another joke about politics? DO THAT. No format, no continuity, just a series of increasingly disconnected and strange clips about various genres of television, from Sketch Show to Chat Show to cartoon to, hell children's educational TV. Sandbox TV, it's perfect for the youtubes. trust me.
I am willing to help you bring this idea to the table - I will take a cut from my normal fee and only ask for 350,000 a year as Creative Director. Lets talk Cnote.
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 AM on January 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
Hey Conan, C-Man, Paleforce Five, what up? So I heard you got some money recently but you ost your show. Suxors I know but hear me out I can fix like both those problems in three words.
Absurd. Midnight. Show.
You all the cool stuff you wanted to do but couldn't or the things you wanted to say to people during interviews or the crazy shit formed in the back of your mind while making another joke about politics? DO THAT. No format, no continuity, just a series of increasingly disconnected and strange clips about various genres of television, from Sketch Show to Chat Show to cartoon to, hell children's educational TV. Sandbox TV, it's perfect for the youtubes. trust me.
I am willing to help you bring this idea to the table - I will take a cut from my normal fee and only ask for 350,000 a year as Creative Director. Lets talk Cnote.
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 AM on January 16, 2010 [4 favorites]
Who the hell is NBC going to stick on the air when Leno actually does retire? Carson Daly?
Notice how little Jimmy Fallon has said about this whole fiasco? He knows with Conan out of the way he's now next in line to the throne. Well, if he can survive as Late Night host, which is the other reason he's taking the high road -- no one's looking at him right now.
posted by dw at 9:50 AM on January 16, 2010
Notice how little Jimmy Fallon has said about this whole fiasco? He knows with Conan out of the way he's now next in line to the throne. Well, if he can survive as Late Night host, which is the other reason he's taking the high road -- no one's looking at him right now.
posted by dw at 9:50 AM on January 16, 2010
dw: "Notice how little Jimmy Fallon has said about this whole fiasco? He knows with Conan out of the way he's now next in line to the throne."
Oh, sweet Jesus, no. I'm not saying you're wrong, but... but... my god.
posted by brundlefly at 10:20 AM on January 16, 2010
Oh, sweet Jesus, no. I'm not saying you're wrong, but... but... my god.
posted by brundlefly at 10:20 AM on January 16, 2010
Oh, sweet Jesus, no. I'm not saying you're wrong, but... but... my god.
Oh, it could be much worse. NBC could decide that neither Leno nor Conan deserve the job, and they would want a young, controllable company man in the job, one who has talk show and comedy experience.
They'd have Fallon on the next plane to LA.
(That said, I don't think Fallon is that bad; he's Carson without the bite, yes, but he has potential than Leno squandered the last 20 years.)
posted by dw at 11:45 AM on January 16, 2010
Oh, it could be much worse. NBC could decide that neither Leno nor Conan deserve the job, and they would want a young, controllable company man in the job, one who has talk show and comedy experience.
They'd have Fallon on the next plane to LA.
(That said, I don't think Fallon is that bad; he's Carson without the bite, yes, but he has potential than Leno squandered the last 20 years.)
posted by dw at 11:45 AM on January 16, 2010
(He has MORE potential than Leno squandered the last 20 years.)
posted by dw at 11:46 AM on January 16, 2010
posted by dw at 11:46 AM on January 16, 2010
To add to this tragedy it appears that NBC will retain the rights to many of Conan's characters. While Conan may return on another network, the Masturbating Bear, vomiting Kermit, Pimpbot 5000 and many, many other beloved characters will never be seen again.
So fuck you, Zucker. You didn't just kill a show, you've quashed about twenty years worth of some of the most unique and interesting characters in comedy. What does Leno have? The dancing Itos? Some lame-ass Bush impersonator? Gilbert fucking Godfrey? Jesus.
While I'm here, does anyone remember a character/sketch Conan introduced years ago that consisted of a fish on a chair or a table? That was it as I recall: just a melancholy fish out of water.
posted by Partario at 1:45 PM on January 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
So fuck you, Zucker. You didn't just kill a show, you've quashed about twenty years worth of some of the most unique and interesting characters in comedy. What does Leno have? The dancing Itos? Some lame-ass Bush impersonator? Gilbert fucking Godfrey? Jesus.
While I'm here, does anyone remember a character/sketch Conan introduced years ago that consisted of a fish on a chair or a table? That was it as I recall: just a melancholy fish out of water.
posted by Partario at 1:45 PM on January 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
(That said, I don't think Fallon is that bad; he's Carson without the bite, yes, but he has potential than Leno squandered the last 20 years.)
posted by dw
I'm going to pretend you were referring to Mr. Daly by his first name, rather than Johnny because it's funnier that way.
posted by haveanicesummer at 1:49 PM on January 16, 2010
posted by dw
I'm going to pretend you were referring to Mr. Daly by his first name, rather than Johnny because it's funnier that way.
posted by haveanicesummer at 1:49 PM on January 16, 2010
So, the end is in sight, and you can't take 'em with you. There's only one thing to do.
Let the bear masturbate, CoCo.
Let the bear masturbate!
posted by vibrotronica at 3:00 PM on January 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Let the bear masturbate, CoCo.
Let the bear masturbate!
posted by vibrotronica at 3:00 PM on January 16, 2010 [1 favorite]
Only when the bear masturbates shall my people be free.
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on January 17, 2010
posted by The Whelk at 8:03 AM on January 17, 2010
Partario: "While Conan may return on another network, the Masturbating Bear, vomiting Kermit, Pimpbot 5000 and many, many other beloved characters will never be seen again."
I would love it if Leno were forced to do those characters. He wouldn't know what to do with them, and it would be its own excruciatingly awkward meta-comedy.
posted by brundlefly at 9:35 AM on January 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would love it if Leno were forced to do those characters. He wouldn't know what to do with them, and it would be its own excruciatingly awkward meta-comedy.
posted by brundlefly at 9:35 AM on January 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
"This show is like a dynasty, you hold it and then you hand it off to the next person. And I don't want to see all the fighting and all the who's better and nasty things back and forth in the press, so right now, here it is, Conan it's yours. See you in 5 years buddy."
- Jay Leno, 2004 (bout 2:18 in)
posted by dig_duggler at 5:17 PM on January 17, 2010
- Jay Leno, 2004 (bout 2:18 in)
posted by dig_duggler at 5:17 PM on January 17, 2010
TALL, SLENDER REDHEAD AVAILABLE FOR NIGHTTIME RECREATION - m4ww - 30 (Universal Studios)
posted by rigby51 at 8:54 PM on January 18, 2010
posted by rigby51 at 8:54 PM on January 18, 2010
They've signed a deal.
Conan gets about $32 million and can return to TV in 8 months.
His last show will be on Friday with Tom Hanks, Will Ferrell and Neil Young.
posted by marsha56 at 9:51 AM on January 21, 2010
Conan gets about $32 million and can return to TV in 8 months.
His last show will be on Friday with Tom Hanks, Will Ferrell and Neil Young.
posted by marsha56 at 9:51 AM on January 21, 2010
anyone know a torrent for the latest shows? hulu blocks me.
posted by krautland at 9:40 PM on January 21, 2010
posted by krautland at 9:40 PM on January 21, 2010
Gawker has a bunch of clips from Conan's most recent show, along with clips from Jay's, Dave's and Jimmy's latest too.
posted by marsha56 at 10:43 PM on January 21, 2010
posted by marsha56 at 10:43 PM on January 21, 2010
Ken Burns Presents: The Late Night War.
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 3:33 PM on January 22, 2010
posted by The Lurkers Support Me in Email at 3:33 PM on January 22, 2010
yeah, I watched gawker's pretty great recaps over the last few days but I just can't get complete shows and it's killing me.
posted by krautland at 11:31 PM on January 22, 2010
posted by krautland at 11:31 PM on January 22, 2010
"Tonight, I can say anything I want. And what I want to say is this..." (complete show, but particularly see the sixth video)
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:53 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:53 AM on January 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
sadly not the complete show, just the exact same link once more.
posted by krautland at 10:33 AM on January 23, 2010
posted by krautland at 10:33 AM on January 23, 2010
It's in pieces, krautland, but I believe it's the entirety of Conan's last show.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:41 AM on January 23, 2010
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:41 AM on January 23, 2010
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posted by dig_duggler at 8:16 AM on January 8, 2010 [9 favorites]