Tanks for the memories...
February 20, 2010 4:31 PM Subscribe
His bank was threatening forclosure on his $350,000 home, so one Iowa man takes the next logical step: he bulldozes it to a pile of rubble. [embedded local news video]
Strange. He only owed $125k, so that meant his own equity was $250k. He'd also never missed a payment but the bank wanted to foreclose because it was "cross collateralized" somehow?
I assume that means he had mortgages on his other properties with the same bank, which had IRS leans.
I wonder what the legal ramifications of all this are.
posted by delmoi at 4:40 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I assume that means he had mortgages on his other properties with the same bank, which had IRS leans.
I wonder what the legal ramifications of all this are.
posted by delmoi at 4:40 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are those who will praise this guy as sticking it to the banks, etc etc...
But in reality this was probably one of the stupidest things he could have done. Think you had problems before man?
posted by deacon_blues at 4:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
But in reality this was probably one of the stupidest things he could have done. Think you had problems before man?
posted by deacon_blues at 4:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Someone should put this guy on the "never allowed to fly a plane" list.
posted by herodotus at 4:47 PM on February 20, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by herodotus at 4:47 PM on February 20, 2010 [13 favorites]
I HATE THIS FACE SO MUCH! I KNOW! LEMME GET THE KNIFE, I"LL REALLY SHOW STUPID FACE WHAT'S WHAT!
posted by The Whelk at 4:47 PM on February 20, 2010 [29 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:47 PM on February 20, 2010 [29 favorites]
Where is this? I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places. Here you'd get a dumpster with a portapotty attached.
posted by jokeefe at 4:51 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 4:51 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
I wonder if the bulldozer rental company knows that they'll never get paid.
posted by pokermonk at 4:53 PM on February 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by pokermonk at 4:53 PM on February 20, 2010 [10 favorites]
Can someone who understands this explain what will happen to him now? From my understanding he'd been sued by his brother (business partner) and the IRS had put liens on his property. As emotionally satisfying as his action was to him, I suppose, I'm wondering what the legal ramifications of his actions are.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:53 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:53 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Me too, all I could do was think about that aerial shot and wonder, "where can you buy a couple of acres of land with a big house and a pool for 350K
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:58 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:58 PM on February 20, 2010
Ohio. Not Iowa.
Moscow, Ohio!
Thank you, I thought I was going crazy because the local news had just covered this as...local.
And Moscow is far from bolshevik, FWIW.
posted by deacon_blues at 5:01 PM on February 20, 2010
Moscow, Ohio!
Thank you, I thought I was going crazy because the local news had just covered this as...local.
And Moscow is far from bolshevik, FWIW.
posted by deacon_blues at 5:01 PM on February 20, 2010
you can about get the Taj Mahal and somebody to clean the pool for 350k in ohio.
posted by toodleydoodley at 5:03 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by toodleydoodley at 5:03 PM on February 20, 2010
I don't understand how
brother suing him
leads to
IRS liens on his business
which leads to
Bank foreclosing on his home.
Can somebody connect these dots for me?
posted by edheil at 5:04 PM on February 20, 2010
brother suing him
leads to
IRS liens on his business
which leads to
Bank foreclosing on his home.
Can somebody connect these dots for me?
posted by edheil at 5:04 PM on February 20, 2010
Where is this? I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places.
This is Iowa. Find Iowa on a map, pick a place at random. That is where $350,000 buys you a large house.
posted by Someday Bum at 5:05 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is Iowa. Find Iowa on a map, pick a place at random. That is where $350,000 buys you a large house.
posted by Someday Bum at 5:05 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
What an asshole.
posted by notsnot at 5:08 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by notsnot at 5:08 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Wow... this is what happens when stupid is allowed to walk around free unsupervised... that and the TEA PARTY.
posted by ExitPursuedByBear at 5:10 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by ExitPursuedByBear at 5:10 PM on February 20, 2010
As emotionally satisfying as his action was to him, I suppose, I'm wondering what the legal ramifications of his actions are.
If/when he's foreclosed on the bank will have nothing to sell except the land itself, so the deficiency judgment after the foreclosure sale will be much larger than it would have been otherwise. The court will probably garnish his wages to satisfy the judgment. Basically he just shot himself in the foot to the tune of about $250,000 in lost equity.
I believe that in Ohio the mortgagee (the bank) receives title to the property automatically upon default. He must have been in default when he bulldozed the house since the bank had initiated foreclosure proceedings. Thus he may also be criminally liable for destruction of property or the like.
I don't know much about bankruptcy law, so I don't know whether and to what extent he could discharge the deficiency judgment, IRS liens, etc in bankruptcy.
posted by jedicus at 5:11 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
If/when he's foreclosed on the bank will have nothing to sell except the land itself, so the deficiency judgment after the foreclosure sale will be much larger than it would have been otherwise. The court will probably garnish his wages to satisfy the judgment. Basically he just shot himself in the foot to the tune of about $250,000 in lost equity.
I believe that in Ohio the mortgagee (the bank) receives title to the property automatically upon default. He must have been in default when he bulldozed the house since the bank had initiated foreclosure proceedings. Thus he may also be criminally liable for destruction of property or the like.
I don't know much about bankruptcy law, so I don't know whether and to what extent he could discharge the deficiency judgment, IRS liens, etc in bankruptcy.
posted by jedicus at 5:11 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
He was above water on the house, and apparently he used it as collateral in business loans which were later defaulted on. More here.
posted by mek at 5:13 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by mek at 5:13 PM on February 20, 2010
Ohio. Not Iowa.
Sorry! Ohio is correct. The newscast said Des Moines which confused me, I guess. Mods, if you'd be so kind as to correct that?
posted by zardoz at 5:15 PM on February 20, 2010
Sorry! Ohio is correct. The newscast said Des Moines which confused me, I guess. Mods, if you'd be so kind as to correct that?
posted by zardoz at 5:15 PM on February 20, 2010
Cocaine is a helluva drug.
posted by The Whelk at 5:15 PM on February 20, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:15 PM on February 20, 2010 [6 favorites]
Pay attention, Bum! Ohio not Iowa. Ok, got me too. The link is to a Des Moines TV station's site. (I couldn't get the video to play, though, so I'm going to make excuses for myself.)
posted by Someday Bum at 5:18 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by Someday Bum at 5:18 PM on February 20, 2010
Some thought him a fool, but others called him a hero.
Those others are the ones you don't want to get stuck talking to on a long Greyhound bus ride.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:18 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Those others are the ones you don't want to get stuck talking to on a long Greyhound bus ride.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:18 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
brother suing him leads to IRS liens on his business which leads to Bank foreclosing on his home.
Well, the guy clearly has a very muddled view of things, but here's my guess as to the chronology.
Hoskins goes into business with his brother. In order to secure a loan for the business, Hoskins puts up the commercial buildings and his home as collateral for the loan (this is very common for small business owners who are undercapitalized).
Then, the IRS places liens on Hoskins's property. This could have happened because the business failed subsequent to an unrelated suit by his brother, so Hoskins failed to pay taxes, so the IRS placed liens on the property. Or it could be more complicated: something like Hoskins screwing his brother by not paying his fair share of business incomes taxes, then the brother suing for damages and the IRS placing liens on the property when Hoskins failed to pay the IRS.
In any event, the liens likely violated the terms of the mortgage, so the bank sought to foreclose on the properties. They foreclosed sooner rather than later because if the bank waited until Hoskins declared bankruptcy then the bankruptcy would stay the foreclosure action.
posted by jedicus at 5:24 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well, the guy clearly has a very muddled view of things, but here's my guess as to the chronology.
Hoskins goes into business with his brother. In order to secure a loan for the business, Hoskins puts up the commercial buildings and his home as collateral for the loan (this is very common for small business owners who are undercapitalized).
Then, the IRS places liens on Hoskins's property. This could have happened because the business failed subsequent to an unrelated suit by his brother, so Hoskins failed to pay taxes, so the IRS placed liens on the property. Or it could be more complicated: something like Hoskins screwing his brother by not paying his fair share of business incomes taxes, then the brother suing for damages and the IRS placing liens on the property when Hoskins failed to pay the IRS.
In any event, the liens likely violated the terms of the mortgage, so the bank sought to foreclose on the properties. They foreclosed sooner rather than later because if the bank waited until Hoskins declared bankruptcy then the bankruptcy would stay the foreclosure action.
posted by jedicus at 5:24 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
It sucks to learn that you've been paying rent on your house all this time. Then you die and learn you've just been leasing your soul.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:27 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:27 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
If he really wanted to show them, he should have used dynamite. Bulldozers are effete.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:29 PM on February 20, 2010 [9 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:29 PM on February 20, 2010 [9 favorites]
I was hoping the plans for the business would involve nuclear weapons.
posted by localroger at 5:38 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by localroger at 5:38 PM on February 20, 2010
From Mek's link:
posted by stbalbach at 5:39 PM on February 20, 2010
"[D]on't loan Hoskins any money. He will stiff you, destroy the collateral, and then go on the evening news and act like he's a hometown hero for not surrendering the collateral to you as he promised. Of course, in reality, he is an immoral person who has just raised the cost of doing business for other entrepreneurs. I'm just warning you in case you actually believe in this guy."I tend to agree. What happens next depends on the language in the original loan that put the house up as collateral. Hopefully the bank was smart enough to protect itself in some way in case the collateral was destroyed such as fire, flood, etc.. I also hope the bank makes him pay the legal fees (a typical provision) and also sues him.
posted by stbalbach at 5:39 PM on February 20, 2010
"...as for his business, he has plans for that too" said the reporter. What will the nutter do next?
posted by dabitch at 5:41 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by dabitch at 5:41 PM on February 20, 2010
Bulldozers are effete.
Construction workers are often seen in the company of police officers, bikers, and Indian chiefs.
posted by The Whelk at 5:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [24 favorites]
Construction workers are often seen in the company of police officers, bikers, and Indian chiefs.
posted by The Whelk at 5:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [24 favorites]
This reminds me of a case about two decades ago or so in Pensacola. Guy in the middle of a divorce was ticked, so he decided to blow up his house with his wife in it. She was supposed to come in with the authorities (IIRC she was supposed to take possession)meanwhile he was turning the gas on inside and lighting a match. Really stupid, since instead of killing his wife as he destroyed the property, he blew himself up in it.
(He had classic Mustang cars in the garage as well, which she had also won in court. That right there was just plain wrong. Blowing up CLASSIC MUSTANGS.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:42 PM on February 20, 2010
(He had classic Mustang cars in the garage as well, which she had also won in court. That right there was just plain wrong. Blowing up CLASSIC MUSTANGS.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:42 PM on February 20, 2010
> Where is this? I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places.
Pretty much anywhere that's more than a couple hours' drive from the nearest airport hub which you're only familiar with because it's where you change planes to go somewhere else entirely. Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's, the nearest grocery is the Super Wal-Mart, and where the local newspapers are covering yet another factory closing, and where the residents can go for food assistance and low-cost children's health exams.
You just have to be willing to give up some of the amenities available where you are now.
posted by ardgedee at 5:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [20 favorites]
Pretty much anywhere that's more than a couple hours' drive from the nearest airport hub which you're only familiar with because it's where you change planes to go somewhere else entirely. Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's, the nearest grocery is the Super Wal-Mart, and where the local newspapers are covering yet another factory closing, and where the residents can go for food assistance and low-cost children's health exams.
You just have to be willing to give up some of the amenities available where you are now.
posted by ardgedee at 5:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [20 favorites]
From the article zardos linked:
posted by dabitch at 5:48 PM on February 20, 2010
Hoskins said he'd gotten a $170,000 offer from someone to pay off the house, but the bank refused, saying they could get more from selling it in foreclosure.The bank refused? Can they do that?
posted by dabitch at 5:48 PM on February 20, 2010
Can they do that?
Sure they can, and it makes sense that they would, given that you're dealing with "a giant warehouse where underlings paid minimum wage simply parrot a written script, crunching numbers in a giant database in which a thousand tubes and wires cross and intersect one another but ultimately lead nowhere."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:02 PM on February 20, 2010 [13 favorites]
Sure they can, and it makes sense that they would, given that you're dealing with "a giant warehouse where underlings paid minimum wage simply parrot a written script, crunching numbers in a giant database in which a thousand tubes and wires cross and intersect one another but ultimately lead nowhere."
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:02 PM on February 20, 2010 [13 favorites]
The bank refused? Can they do that?
Absolutely. In a short sale the borrower and lender must agree to the sale. If the bank thinks they can get more money by refusing the offer, they'll refuse it. This is why short sales are such pains in the rear.
posted by dw at 6:04 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. In a short sale the borrower and lender must agree to the sale. If the bank thinks they can get more money by refusing the offer, they'll refuse it. This is why short sales are such pains in the rear.
posted by dw at 6:04 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
So what, the bank is entitled to more than they're owed? If he owes them 125K and he's got an offer for 170K, why does the bank even get a say in the matter?
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:06 PM on February 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:06 PM on February 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
^ Sounds like a scene out of Terry Gilliam's Brazil.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:08 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by dunkadunc at 6:08 PM on February 20, 2010
If he builds a baseball field on it, people will come. People wil most definitely come.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 6:18 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 6:18 PM on February 20, 2010
Some thought him a fool, but others called him a hero.
Those others are the ones you don't want to get stuck talking to on a long Greyhound bus ride.
well, actually you do. otherwise you'd be confronted with the possibility of having to fall asleep on a Greyhound bus, which is a no-no, what with the other guy roaming the aisle with a bleach bottle of home-brewed hooch. you definitely need to stay alert, if only to keep an eye on him.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:36 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Those others are the ones you don't want to get stuck talking to on a long Greyhound bus ride.
well, actually you do. otherwise you'd be confronted with the possibility of having to fall asleep on a Greyhound bus, which is a no-no, what with the other guy roaming the aisle with a bleach bottle of home-brewed hooch. you definitely need to stay alert, if only to keep an eye on him.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:36 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
If he builds a baseball field on it, people will come. People wil most definitely come.
and they'll be all be on steroids
posted by pyramid termite at 6:39 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
and they'll be all be on steroids
posted by pyramid termite at 6:39 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's, the nearest grocery is the Super Wal-Mart, and where the local newspapers are covering yet another factory closing, and where the residents can go for food assistance and low-cost children's health exams.
Dude, Moscow is half an hour outside Cincinatti, a historically and culturally rich city of over 2 million people. It may have a few Wal-marts and some closed factories, but this isn't freakin' Iowa.
Iowa, contrary to popular belief, also has some great cities...
posted by miyabo at 6:40 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Dude, Moscow is half an hour outside Cincinatti, a historically and culturally rich city of over 2 million people. It may have a few Wal-marts and some closed factories, but this isn't freakin' Iowa.
Iowa, contrary to popular belief, also has some great cities...
posted by miyabo at 6:40 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Isn't this how The Grapes of Wrath starts out? It's in the first episode of Carnivale, too. I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons to believe we're not in another Great Depression.
posted by mattbucher at 6:41 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by mattbucher at 6:41 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places. Here you'd get a dumpster with a portapotty attached.
Here in suburban western New York, you could buy our four bedroom house, and the neighbor's three or four bedroom house, and the other neighbor's three or four bedroom house. And have some left over.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here in suburban western New York, you could buy our four bedroom house, and the neighbor's three or four bedroom house, and the other neighbor's three or four bedroom house. And have some left over.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Coulda been worse. Coulda been the Killdozer.
posted by hangashore at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by hangashore at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now I finally understand the ending of Zabriskie Point! It was about foreclosure!
posted by crazylegs at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by crazylegs at 6:42 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
So what, the bank is entitled to more than they're owed? If he owes them 125K and he's got an offer for 170K, why does the bank even get a say in the matter?
From what I can piece together, he needed to take out loans on commercial property. He used his home's equity to extend his credit. The agreement being that if he defaults on the commercial loans the bank gets the house. Without putting his house up for collateral he would have had to pay a much higher interest rate or more likely, never had gotten the loans in the first place. He defaults on the commercial loans and now the bank takes the house. He owes only $125k and someone offers to pay the bank $170k. No dice says the bank, as $350k-125k = $225k. I bet if he offered around $225k the bank would have taken it, banks aren't real estate agents and generally don't like dealing with this unless the profit is obvious.
So this guy is a real piece of shit. I can't stop imagining him hitting on girls at some shitty Moscow, Ohio bar telling them he's into "commercial real estate" and bragging about his new Chevy Suburban (the LT package he reminds them as he drives home more than a little buzzed).
posted by geoff. at 6:43 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
From what I can piece together, he needed to take out loans on commercial property. He used his home's equity to extend his credit. The agreement being that if he defaults on the commercial loans the bank gets the house. Without putting his house up for collateral he would have had to pay a much higher interest rate or more likely, never had gotten the loans in the first place. He defaults on the commercial loans and now the bank takes the house. He owes only $125k and someone offers to pay the bank $170k. No dice says the bank, as $350k-125k = $225k. I bet if he offered around $225k the bank would have taken it, banks aren't real estate agents and generally don't like dealing with this unless the profit is obvious.
So this guy is a real piece of shit. I can't stop imagining him hitting on girls at some shitty Moscow, Ohio bar telling them he's into "commercial real estate" and bragging about his new Chevy Suburban (the LT package he reminds them as he drives home more than a little buzzed).
posted by geoff. at 6:43 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
It sucks to learn that you've been paying rent on your house all this time. Then you die and learn you've just been leasing your soul.
Man, you are like totally right and shit. Trying to own your house is, like, trying to own a rainbow. They're both pretty and they both end up in the back window of gay people's cars. Wait, that's not right. Is this about sticking it to The Man but asking his permission to paint and get a cat?
posted by Mayor Peace Love and Unity at 6:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Man, you are like totally right and shit. Trying to own your house is, like, trying to own a rainbow. They're both pretty and they both end up in the back window of gay people's cars. Wait, that's not right. Is this about sticking it to The Man but asking his permission to paint and get a cat?
posted by Mayor Peace Love and Unity at 6:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
Alia, something just like that happened in New York a few years back. Guy blew up his own building by filling it with gas.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:57 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:57 PM on February 20, 2010
...and bragging about his new Chevy Suburban (the LT package he reminds them as he drives home more than a little buzzed).
I bet he litters, too.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 7:02 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
I bet he litters, too.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 7:02 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Life gives you lemons? Paint that shit bull-dozed.
posted by localhuman at 7:03 PM on February 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by localhuman at 7:03 PM on February 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
Many years ago I was home visiting my parents in rural Wisconsin and I was talking to an old classmate of mine. He had a car sitting in his backyard that didn't run. Someone had offered him $500 for it for parts, but he had paid $800 for it and he wanted to at least break even. I said "Well are you getting any other offers?" He told me "No, but I'll let that fucker rust away to nothing first!"
I never understood that either.
People are fucked up.
posted by Bonzai at 7:20 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
I never understood that either.
People are fucked up.
posted by Bonzai at 7:20 PM on February 20, 2010 [8 favorites]
So what, the bank is entitled to more than they're owed? If he owes them 125K and he's got an offer for 170K, why does the bank even get a say in the matter?
I think he'd actually been making the payments on the 125K loan; it was the other (business) loans, for which the house was also collateral, that he defaulted on. So in other words, he owed a lot more than 125K. And he promised to hand over the house if he defaulted. And then he bulldozed it instead of handing it over, which, yeah, sorta makes him a jer -- a hometown hero!
posted by palliser at 7:22 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think he'd actually been making the payments on the 125K loan; it was the other (business) loans, for which the house was also collateral, that he defaulted on. So in other words, he owed a lot more than 125K. And he promised to hand over the house if he defaulted. And then he bulldozed it instead of handing it over, which, yeah, sorta makes him a jer -- a hometown hero!
posted by palliser at 7:22 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
At least he didn't fly a plane into the bank.
posted by Jumpin Jack Flash at 7:28 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Jumpin Jack Flash at 7:28 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
At least he didn't fly a plane into the bank.
True, but if I were the bank I'd be looking at getting some bulldozer-proof Jersey barriers set up ASAP.
posted by dw at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
True, but if I were the bank I'd be looking at getting some bulldozer-proof Jersey barriers set up ASAP.
posted by dw at 7:39 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
> Where is this? I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places.
Pretty much anywhere that'smore than a couple hours' drive from the nearest airport hub which you're only familiar with because it's where you change planes to go somewhere else entirely. Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's, the nearest grocery is the Super Wal-Mart, and where the local newspapers are covering yet another factory closing, and where the residents can go for food assistance and low-cost children's health exams.
You just have to be willing to give up some of the amenities available where you are now. not NYC or California.
It needed just a bit of editing.
posted by MikeMc at 7:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [24 favorites]
Pretty much anywhere that's
You just have to be willing to give up some of the amenities available where you are now.
It needed just a bit of editing.
posted by MikeMc at 7:44 PM on February 20, 2010 [24 favorites]
It's not like he's going to get out from under the IRS, his bank, or anyone else by destroying his house. What a stupid stupid man.
posted by ged at 7:51 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ged at 7:51 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's not like he's going to get out from under the IRS, his bank, or anyone else by destroying his house.
But he feels better and can you really put a price on that?
posted by MikeMc at 7:56 PM on February 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
But he feels better and can you really put a price on that?
posted by MikeMc at 7:56 PM on February 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think he'd actually been making the payments on the 125K loan;
Er yes, my wording was bad. The bank still has a $125k mortgage on a $350k house they (the bank) owns. He apparently offered them $170k which is less than the bank could make by selling the house at appraised value and paying off the mortgage. The other loans and how much he is in debt is really irrelevant.
posted by geoff. at 7:59 PM on February 20, 2010
Er yes, my wording was bad. The bank still has a $125k mortgage on a $350k house they (the bank) owns. He apparently offered them $170k which is less than the bank could make by selling the house at appraised value and paying off the mortgage. The other loans and how much he is in debt is really irrelevant.
posted by geoff. at 7:59 PM on February 20, 2010
I have nothing to add concerning this story. But I kid you not, earlier today I watched an episode of The Adventures of Brisco County Jr with the Chapter 2 title "Tanks For The Memories". Stop spying on me.
posted by Green With You at 8:04 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Green With You at 8:04 PM on February 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Upon further review: I can see why owning a home can in certain situations be monetarily as well as psychologically beneficial, but I can't see myself having that much debt just so I could theoretically own something in 30 years. If nothing else I won't be put into the situation where bulldozing my house seems like the best choice.
posted by Green With You at 8:23 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by Green With You at 8:23 PM on February 20, 2010
Wow... this is what happens when stupid is allowed to walk around free unsupervised... that and the TEA PARTY.
I thought you were going to say NEW JERSEY
posted by zombieApoc at 8:25 PM on February 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm finding fewer and fewer reasons to believe we're not in another Great Depression.
We would have much better music by now.
posted by The Whelk at 8:52 PM on February 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
We would have much better music by now.
posted by The Whelk at 8:52 PM on February 20, 2010 [7 favorites]
The other loans and how much he is in debt is really irrelevant.
I think it is relevant in this case, as they're all cross-collateralized (according to the articles linked by others), which means that if he defaults on one, the collateral for all can be taken.
posted by palliser at 8:54 PM on February 20, 2010
I think it is relevant in this case, as they're all cross-collateralized (according to the articles linked by others), which means that if he defaults on one, the collateral for all can be taken.
posted by palliser at 8:54 PM on February 20, 2010
Lady Gaga is our Woodie Guthrie.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:24 PM on February 20, 2010 [21 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:24 PM on February 20, 2010 [21 favorites]
If he builds a baseball field on it, people will come.
Field of Dreams is in Iowa.
posted by Someday Bum at 9:44 PM on February 20, 2010
Field of Dreams is in Iowa.
posted by Someday Bum at 9:44 PM on February 20, 2010
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:19 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:19 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think you really have to be in a state of mind where you have over-personalized your dealings with the financial institutions in order to be able to do something like this. It's like he thinks that the bank wanted his house so much that he's denying them that pleasure of taking it from him, where in reality the bank couldn't care less about him, his house, or the taking of his house from him. They just want their money and now they have even more reason than before to go after him in court.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:19 PM on February 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 10:19 PM on February 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Dude, Moscow is half an hour outside Cincinatti,
Dude, 3 Ns, 1 T
Cincinnati
at least you didn't spell it with a Y
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:28 PM on February 20, 2010
Dude, 3 Ns, 1 T
Cincinnati
at least you didn't spell it with a Y
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:28 PM on February 20, 2010
If he had an offer for $170k, even if the bank wouldn't take it, why not structure the deal to get the money up front, pay off the balance of the mortgage, then deed the house to the purchaser? He clearly owed much more than the balance of the house and would probably have to declare bankruptcy anyway - so why bulldoze?
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:48 PM on February 20, 2010
posted by allen.spaulding at 10:48 PM on February 20, 2010
This reminds me of the final Little House on the Prairie movie, the Last Farewell. Basically a railroad company shows up in Walnut Grove claiming they own the land the whole town (and outlying farms) is built on. They were never supposed to have been allowed to build there and now they want everyone to pick up their stuff and clear out. The same is true of several nearby towns and the railroad wants to clear them all out.
The railroad company is portrayed as supergreedy and eager to take over all the houses and farms and the buildings in town. The townspeople all get together and decide that while the railroad company may own the land, they (townspeaple) built and own the buildings and they're not giving them up. So they blow up the whole town.
Of course, seeing them do this all the other towns vow to do the same and the railroad caves and promises not to take over the other towns.
Maybe this guy saw that movie, too!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:18 PM on February 20, 2010
The railroad company is portrayed as supergreedy and eager to take over all the houses and farms and the buildings in town. The townspeople all get together and decide that while the railroad company may own the land, they (townspeaple) built and own the buildings and they're not giving them up. So they blow up the whole town.
Of course, seeing them do this all the other towns vow to do the same and the railroad caves and promises not to take over the other towns.
Maybe this guy saw that movie, too!
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:18 PM on February 20, 2010
I'm glad it wasn't a child custody dispute.
posted by pracowity at 11:59 PM on February 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 11:59 PM on February 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
What he should have done is damage the house beyond repair. That way, the costs of removing the ruins of a standing structure would detract from the cost of the land even further.
posted by Pseudology at 2:59 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Pseudology at 2:59 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Where is this? I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in some places. Here you'd get a dumpster with a portapotty attached.
Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us round the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
posted by fairmettle at 3:19 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us round the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
posted by fairmettle at 3:19 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Lady Gaga is our Woodie Guthrie.
This disco stick is my disco stick, this disco stick is your disco stick.
posted by drezdn at 4:37 AM on February 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Horace Rumpole, that's a crazy story.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:46 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 4:46 AM on February 21, 2010
This is just like Tank, with James Garner and C Thomas Howell.
Actually, it isn't. But Ima link to it anyway.
posted by dirtdirt at 5:22 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Actually, it isn't. But Ima link to it anyway.
posted by dirtdirt at 5:22 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in somemost places. HereIn overvalued, overcrowded, trendy locations you'd get a dumpster with a portapotty attached.
FTFY
posted by DU at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
FTFY
posted by DU at 6:15 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Remember when Fox News mislabeled the disgraced Republican governor "Mark Sanford (D)"? I'm from Iowa and I feel the same now as I did then.
posted by rlk at 6:32 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by rlk at 6:32 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
It sucks to learn that you've been paying rent on your house all this time. Then you die and learn you've just been leasing your soul.
Huh? Its a mortgage. Everyone knows what they are. I'm no raging capitalist, but when a bank suddenly gives you $200,000 you didn't have before in order to buy the house, there is a catch.
These are non-recourse loans, generally good for the qualified buyer. Its when giant banks stop analyzing the facts and make loans to people they never should have while being the most informed party in the transaction that shit hits the fan.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Huh? Its a mortgage. Everyone knows what they are. I'm no raging capitalist, but when a bank suddenly gives you $200,000 you didn't have before in order to buy the house, there is a catch.
These are non-recourse loans, generally good for the qualified buyer. Its when giant banks stop analyzing the facts and make loans to people they never should have while being the most informed party in the transaction that shit hits the fan.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us round the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:56 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Will his next step be to put a bullet through his head?
posted by Vindaloo at 9:14 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by Vindaloo at 9:14 AM on February 21, 2010
I'm recalling reading Stud Terkel's Hard Times: an Oral History of the Great Depression and one of the recurring themes of the being that people didn't connect their personal economic problems with the larger macroeconomic issues the country faced, so they tended to internalize all their failure. This lead to some mental health issues, and also meant that there was far less popular discontent than their might have been.
Have we swung too much in the other direction?
posted by ropeladder at 12:03 PM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Have we swung too much in the other direction?
posted by ropeladder at 12:03 PM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Luxury! We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us round the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
'Ot gravel! We used to dream about hot gravel! We had cold gravel, then we had to work at the mill for 26 hours and day and pay them!
Okay, sorry for gawking at real estate values in Places That Are Not Here, but Vancouver is in this never-ending kind of weird housing bubble thing where prices are through the roof, and it's not really logical-- I mean, San Francisco prices are one thing in San Francisco, but Vancouver? There's not really that much here, you know? Unless you're laundering 10 billion dollars a year worth of pot money, of course.
posted by jokeefe at 12:31 PM on February 21, 2010
'Ot gravel! We used to dream about hot gravel! We had cold gravel, then we had to work at the mill for 26 hours and day and pay them!
Okay, sorry for gawking at real estate values in Places That Are Not Here, but Vancouver is in this never-ending kind of weird housing bubble thing where prices are through the roof, and it's not really logical-- I mean, San Francisco prices are one thing in San Francisco, but Vancouver? There's not really that much here, you know? Unless you're laundering 10 billion dollars a year worth of pot money, of course.
posted by jokeefe at 12:31 PM on February 21, 2010
one of the recurring themes of the being that people didn't connect their personal economic problems with the larger macroeconomic issues the country faced, so they tended to internalize all their failure.
The primary motive of a ruling class is to get the other classes to fight amongst themselves, either by blaming themselves or an Other for their financial problems and use that hatred as a tool of control. Ideally, you want the ruled class to identify with the ruling class not with people who are in a similar situation as them.
Then again this is the kind of commie talk that makes not welcome at dinner parties.
posted by The Whelk at 12:40 PM on February 21, 2010
The primary motive of a ruling class is to get the other classes to fight amongst themselves, either by blaming themselves or an Other for their financial problems and use that hatred as a tool of control. Ideally, you want the ruled class to identify with the ruling class not with people who are in a similar situation as them.
Then again this is the kind of commie talk that makes not welcome at dinner parties.
posted by The Whelk at 12:40 PM on February 21, 2010
ardgedee:
"Pretty much anywhere that's more than a couple hours' drive from the nearest airport hub which you're only familiar with because it's where you change planes to go somewhere else entirely. Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's"
My four bedroom house on five acres of land 15 minutes from excellent sushi and 30 minutes from an international airport would like to disagree with this assessment.
I grew up in LA; my friends ask me when I plan on coming back to stay. I tell them that when a vehicle in my town is going 10 miles an hour, it's not because it's on the 405 at 5:15, it's because it's being piloted by an Amish, and I pretty much prefer it that way.
That said, and to get to the topic at hand here, bulldozing one's house seems a little wacky.
posted by jscalzi at 1:25 PM on February 21, 2010
"Pretty much anywhere that's more than a couple hours' drive from the nearest airport hub which you're only familiar with because it's where you change planes to go somewhere else entirely. Anywhere that the locals' favorite restaurant is Applebee's"
My four bedroom house on five acres of land 15 minutes from excellent sushi and 30 minutes from an international airport would like to disagree with this assessment.
I grew up in LA; my friends ask me when I plan on coming back to stay. I tell them that when a vehicle in my town is going 10 miles an hour, it's not because it's on the 405 at 5:15, it's because it's being piloted by an Amish, and I pretty much prefer it that way.
That said, and to get to the topic at hand here, bulldozing one's house seems a little wacky.
posted by jscalzi at 1:25 PM on February 21, 2010
This is why short sales are such pains in the rear.
Banks also fear short sale fraud, e.g. from "non-arms-length parties", like a cousin or client. Essentially they're being asked to help the buyer by writing off part of their interest in the property -- as good as giving the buyer upfront cash.
posted by dhartung at 1:29 PM on February 21, 2010
Banks also fear short sale fraud, e.g. from "non-arms-length parties", like a cousin or client. Essentially they're being asked to help the buyer by writing off part of their interest in the property -- as good as giving the buyer upfront cash.
posted by dhartung at 1:29 PM on February 21, 2010
And when you are on Wall Street with a label of 'too big to fail' and you threaten to bulldoze the economy unless you get bailed out - you get bailed out.
Upping the risks of a loan will mean less loans - less loans should mean lower real estate pricing. So go, gadget bulldozers all over!
posted by rough ashlar at 1:32 PM on February 21, 2010
Upping the risks of a loan will mean less loans - less loans should mean lower real estate pricing. So go, gadget bulldozers all over!
posted by rough ashlar at 1:32 PM on February 21, 2010
Okay, sorry for gawking at real estate values in Places That Are Not Here
I actually didn't get why anyone was snarking in your direction, jokeefe; you were acknowledging the advantage of living somewhere that real estate is not so fiercely competitive. I think you were unfairly tarred with the dickish brush of the Applebee's remark that responded to yours.
Sincerely,
An Outlander (who lives in a five-BR house built in 1906 with great restaurants, bars, a public library, a supermarket, bicycle shops, import shops, and several boutique clothing stores within about 10 blocks' walking distance and would therefore like to add "nyah nyah," but not at you, because you are nice)
posted by palliser at 1:39 PM on February 21, 2010
I actually didn't get why anyone was snarking in your direction, jokeefe; you were acknowledging the advantage of living somewhere that real estate is not so fiercely competitive. I think you were unfairly tarred with the dickish brush of the Applebee's remark that responded to yours.
Sincerely,
An Outlander (who lives in a five-BR house built in 1906 with great restaurants, bars, a public library, a supermarket, bicycle shops, import shops, and several boutique clothing stores within about 10 blocks' walking distance and would therefore like to add "nyah nyah," but not at you, because you are nice)
posted by palliser at 1:39 PM on February 21, 2010
So, everyone is claiming the bank is going to come after him, but foreclosure had only been initiated, not completed, right? Does a mortgage recipient have some kind of duty to maintain the house? What if he had just, say, not bothered to fix a leaky roof and let the house fall apart that way, and the house was subsequently foreclosed upon — could the bank recover anything then?
posted by enn at 2:47 PM on February 21, 2010
posted by enn at 2:47 PM on February 21, 2010
More details re. Mr. Hoskins' foreclosure here. In response to enn's question, it appears from the clerk's link above that the foreclosure action is pretty far along, as a sheriff's sale of the house has been ordered. There's also another entry indicating that the automatic stay order in a related bankruptcy case recently ended. Reading between the lines, I would venture a guess that the sale was moving forward quickly after the bankruptcy stay ended, thus precipitating the end result. Just my opinion and educated guess as I'm from Iowa, NOT Ohio.
FWIW, I've never been in an Applebee's, I read the NYT and WSJ daily, don't shop at WalMart, and live on a beautiful 5 acre piece of land 20 miles (that's 20 a minute drive around here) from my downtown office, and generally try to vacation at places that require a passport. Oh, and I drive a Volvo, so here's to you, argedee. (Yes, my lifetstyle stereotype is completely at odds with the stereotype based upon my physical location, which I guess just goes to show how inaccurate stereotyping is).
posted by webhund at 3:34 PM on February 21, 2010
FWIW, I've never been in an Applebee's, I read the NYT and WSJ daily, don't shop at WalMart, and live on a beautiful 5 acre piece of land 20 miles (that's 20 a minute drive around here) from my downtown office, and generally try to vacation at places that require a passport. Oh, and I drive a Volvo, so here's to you, argedee. (Yes, my lifetstyle stereotype is completely at odds with the stereotype based upon my physical location, which I guess just goes to show how inaccurate stereotyping is).
posted by webhund at 3:34 PM on February 21, 2010
This reminds me of the final Little House on the Prairie movie, the Last Farewell... The townspeople all get together and decide that while the railroad company may own the land, they (townspeaple) built and own the buildings and they're not giving them up. So they blow up the whole town.
Upon reflection, Little House on the Prairie is one weird cultural artifact.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2010
Upon reflection, Little House on the Prairie is one weird cultural artifact.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:48 PM on February 21, 2010
I'm in awe of what 350K can buy in somemost places. HereIn overvalued, overcrowded, trendy locations you'd get a dumpster with a portapotty attached.
FTFY
jokeefe is from Canada... There is no market here where you can buy a 4-bedroom house on an acreage with a pool, etc., for $350K. Vancouver real estate prices are especially high, but it's not like there is any other place in the country (except in places where there are no remaining industries) where houses are affordable.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:52 PM on February 21, 2010
FTFY
jokeefe is from Canada... There is no market here where you can buy a 4-bedroom house on an acreage with a pool, etc., for $350K. Vancouver real estate prices are especially high, but it's not like there is any other place in the country (except in places where there are no remaining industries) where houses are affordable.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:52 PM on February 21, 2010
I'm still trying to figure out why a Des Moines, Iowa CBS-affiliated station that is displaying content from a Cincinnati, Ohio NBC-affiliated station was the video that was chosen to be linked.
Ohio, Iowa, Idaho, whatever, right?
posted by mikeh at 7:56 AM on February 22, 2010
Ohio, Iowa, Idaho, whatever, right?
posted by mikeh at 7:56 AM on February 22, 2010
> Oh, and I drive a Volvo, so here's to you, argedee.
I live in Michigan now, and have spent almost my whole life within fifty miles of Lake Erie. I'm describing the environment I grew up in and spend much of my time in even now; if there are exceptions to what I described (and there are; I live in one), they are exceptions.
I'm also pretty sick of people who dismiss the conditions here out-of-hand as being an unlivable outback populated by inbred survivalist racist mouthbreathers who only know the world through Fox News and freeper boards. I have bicycle-friendly access to good groceries and restaurants, fine art and music, and so on. If I had kids, they could attend some of the best public schools in the country. Life is pretty good in this little oasis in the rust belt, even as the unemployment rate around it is appalling, and the industries that laid all those people off will probably never hire them back. Those are the people selling off massive four-bedroom houses on multi-acre estates for under $350,000. In my town, where things are more stable, the prices are still a bit north of that.
posted by ardgedee at 8:55 AM on February 22, 2010
I live in Michigan now, and have spent almost my whole life within fifty miles of Lake Erie. I'm describing the environment I grew up in and spend much of my time in even now; if there are exceptions to what I described (and there are; I live in one), they are exceptions.
I'm also pretty sick of people who dismiss the conditions here out-of-hand as being an unlivable outback populated by inbred survivalist racist mouthbreathers who only know the world through Fox News and freeper boards. I have bicycle-friendly access to good groceries and restaurants, fine art and music, and so on. If I had kids, they could attend some of the best public schools in the country. Life is pretty good in this little oasis in the rust belt, even as the unemployment rate around it is appalling, and the industries that laid all those people off will probably never hire them back. Those are the people selling off massive four-bedroom houses on multi-acre estates for under $350,000. In my town, where things are more stable, the prices are still a bit north of that.
posted by ardgedee at 8:55 AM on February 22, 2010
"I'm still trying to figure out why a Des Moines, Iowa CBS-affiliated station that is displaying content from a Cincinnati, Ohio NBC-affiliated station was the video that was chosen to be linked."
Because they're all subscribing/contracting with Internet Broadcasting, Inc for web content. I've noticed this frequently over past few years - Ohio stories get posted on KCCI's website (an Iowa CBS affiliate). My suspicion is that somebody sitting somewhere in a dark room all day with a bunch of monitors in front of him/her mistakenly confuses Iowa for Ohio and uploads the story to the KCCI site. They (IBSYS) sell this same site template to lots of local media outlets around the country, so it's probably a pretty easy mistake to make now and then. Most of the time they're totally local stories of no broader significance and get taken down/moved to the correct affiliate's site pretty quickly; I suspect this one stayed up because it isn't entirely local-news only.
posted by webhund at 11:19 AM on February 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Because they're all subscribing/contracting with Internet Broadcasting, Inc for web content. I've noticed this frequently over past few years - Ohio stories get posted on KCCI's website (an Iowa CBS affiliate). My suspicion is that somebody sitting somewhere in a dark room all day with a bunch of monitors in front of him/her mistakenly confuses Iowa for Ohio and uploads the story to the KCCI site. They (IBSYS) sell this same site template to lots of local media outlets around the country, so it's probably a pretty easy mistake to make now and then. Most of the time they're totally local stories of no broader significance and get taken down/moved to the correct affiliate's site pretty quickly; I suspect this one stayed up because it isn't entirely local-news only.
posted by webhund at 11:19 AM on February 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
I am from Moscow, Iowa, and I can assure you there are no below-ground swimming pools. There are, however, many fine frontyard cars on blocks for kids to play in when they get back from possum hunting.
posted by Foam Pants at 1:22 PM on February 22, 2010
posted by Foam Pants at 1:22 PM on February 22, 2010
"where can you buy a couple of acres of land with a big house and a pool for 350K
I'm 20 minutes from Milwaukee and about an hour and a half from Chicago, and for $350K I could buy any number of absurdly large houses. If I were willing to put myself into the less populated areas between the two cities, I could buy a mansion made of hookers, diamonds and cocaine.
Speaking of, does anyone have $350K I could have? I'm thinking of getting a second place a little closer to the Illinois border...
posted by quin at 2:07 PM on February 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm 20 minutes from Milwaukee and about an hour and a half from Chicago, and for $350K I could buy any number of absurdly large houses. If I were willing to put myself into the less populated areas between the two cities, I could buy a mansion made of hookers, diamonds and cocaine.
Speaking of, does anyone have $350K I could have? I'm thinking of getting a second place a little closer to the Illinois border...
posted by quin at 2:07 PM on February 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
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posted by pencroft at 4:40 PM on February 20, 2010 [3 favorites]