Oh, yes, they are very cute... but they are killers.
February 23, 2010 8:13 PM Subscribe
Intelligent, social animals commit murder. Chimps do it in Planet Earth too. It makes sense and makes me feel less bad about humanity.
posted by nathancaswell at 8:17 PM on February 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
posted by nathancaswell at 8:17 PM on February 23, 2010 [6 favorites]
Film taken of gangs of dolphins repeatedly ramming baby porpoises, tossing them in the air and pursuing them to the death
I see. Where can one view this film footage?
posted by MattMangels at 8:19 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I see. Where can one view this film footage?
posted by MattMangels at 8:19 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
I am against this.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:32 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 8:32 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Theories abound on the reason behind the mammal murders. These have included territorial clashes and feuds over food resources. But food is not in short supply and the victims are not just chased away but pursued to the death.
But if this is instinctive rather than considered, then whether food is in short supply is irrelevant.
Big cats in Africa do this. Leopards and lions will kill cheetah cubs when they find them, even though cheetahs don't hunt the same food as leopards and lions do and cheetahs are no threat to lion and/or leopard adults or cubs.
Lions will kill leopards, too, if they can. Equally, big cats and hunting dogs and hyenas will all kill one another if they can do so. (The dogs not so much, because they're smaller.)
Why should it be a surprise to learn that mammalian predators in the sea do exactly the same thing?
I think that what makes this so newsworthy is that it's another blow to the "noble savage" myth. People wish that somewhere, in nature, there should be creatures which are noble and gentle.
For a long time, they attached that prejudice to chimps. Then Jane Goodall documented violent murders and cannabilism among the chimps she was studying.
After other studies confirmed that primates in general are a violent and bloody lot, I think a lot of people transferred that dream image to cetaceans. Now that, too, is gone.
"Nature red in tooth and claw". That's how it is in the real world.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2010 [12 favorites]
But if this is instinctive rather than considered, then whether food is in short supply is irrelevant.
Big cats in Africa do this. Leopards and lions will kill cheetah cubs when they find them, even though cheetahs don't hunt the same food as leopards and lions do and cheetahs are no threat to lion and/or leopard adults or cubs.
Lions will kill leopards, too, if they can. Equally, big cats and hunting dogs and hyenas will all kill one another if they can do so. (The dogs not so much, because they're smaller.)
Why should it be a surprise to learn that mammalian predators in the sea do exactly the same thing?
I think that what makes this so newsworthy is that it's another blow to the "noble savage" myth. People wish that somewhere, in nature, there should be creatures which are noble and gentle.
For a long time, they attached that prejudice to chimps. Then Jane Goodall documented violent murders and cannabilism among the chimps she was studying.
After other studies confirmed that primates in general are a violent and bloody lot, I think a lot of people transferred that dream image to cetaceans. Now that, too, is gone.
"Nature red in tooth and claw". That's how it is in the real world.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2010 [12 favorites]
I'm put in mind of the story of a pilot whale who attacked a swimming woman. Everyone was all, "OMG this is so unusual! Pilot whales are peaceful, WTF!"
Some speculation at the time pointed out that one or more pilot whales which had been trained by the Navy had escaped in the area. I'm not sure whether that's apocryphal, or if the pilot whale was identified as a deserter, or what. I can't find anything useful on it now.
I can't help but wonder whether the same might be true of these dolphins. I believe there have been some military dolphin escapes in recent years. Maybe they're just rogue ex-military dolphin bullies?
posted by ErikaB at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2010
Some speculation at the time pointed out that one or more pilot whales which had been trained by the Navy had escaped in the area. I'm not sure whether that's apocryphal, or if the pilot whale was identified as a deserter, or what. I can't find anything useful on it now.
I can't help but wonder whether the same might be true of these dolphins. I believe there have been some military dolphin escapes in recent years. Maybe they're just rogue ex-military dolphin bullies?
posted by ErikaB at 8:34 PM on February 23, 2010
Armed dolphins, trained by the US military to shoot terrorists and pinpoint spies underwater, may be missing in the Gulf of Mexico.posted by Fiasco da Gama at 8:39 PM on February 23, 2010 [3 favorites]
Experts who have studied the US navy's cetacean training exercises claim the 36 mammals could be carrying 'toxic dart' guns. Divers and surfers risk attack, they claim, from a species considered to be among the planet's smartest. The US navy admits it has been training dolphins for military purposes, but has refused to confirm that any are missing.
I'm put in mind of the story of a pilot whale who attacked a swimming woman. Everyone was all, "OMG this is so unusual! Pilot whales are peaceful, WTF!"
There is footage of a Pilot whale "playing" with a woman who decided it would be neat to swim up and pet it. I believe her husband was filming while she was snorkling and swam up to pet it (seriously) then the whale grabbed her by the ankle and pulled her forty feet downwards twice before she could surface. I think they came to the conclusion that it was just being playful.
Sapolsky do a whole talk about this type of behavior. He went through about eight or so myths of behavior that supposedly humans only show. One of the myths was murder. He showed the gory remains of a baboon picture and said the only thing he did wrong was upset the pecking order. (The Uniqueness of Humans)
posted by P.o.B. at 8:54 PM on February 23, 2010 [8 favorites]
There is footage of a Pilot whale "playing" with a woman who decided it would be neat to swim up and pet it. I believe her husband was filming while she was snorkling and swam up to pet it (seriously) then the whale grabbed her by the ankle and pulled her forty feet downwards twice before she could surface. I think they came to the conclusion that it was just being playful.
Sapolsky do a whole talk about this type of behavior. He went through about eight or so myths of behavior that supposedly humans only show. One of the myths was murder. He showed the gory remains of a baboon picture and said the only thing he did wrong was upset the pecking order. (The Uniqueness of Humans)
posted by P.o.B. at 8:54 PM on February 23, 2010 [8 favorites]
Boredom, lack of jobs and those damn fake Burberry hats... wait, is this dolphins or Chavs?
posted by GuyZero at 8:55 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 8:55 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
exterminate the brutes
posted by philip-random at 9:13 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by philip-random at 9:13 PM on February 23, 2010
Dolphins: Just as evil as humans, but thankfully lack opposable thumbs.
It's just matter of time.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:19 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's just matter of time.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:19 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Kattullus: Wrong post... or right one? Either way works for me.
posted by Maxson at 9:26 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by Maxson at 9:26 PM on February 23, 2010
P.o.B. -- I don't really want to watch that video, but I would be curious as to what 8 myths he's referring to. Could you summarize?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:28 PM on February 23, 2010
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 9:28 PM on February 23, 2010
"Nature red in tooth and claw". That's how it is in the real world.
Except most of "nature" has neither teeth nor claws.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 9:29 PM on February 23, 2010
Except most of "nature" has neither teeth nor claws.
posted by HP LaserJet P10006 at 9:29 PM on February 23, 2010
Metatalk in case these turn out to be Christian dolphins
posted by nicwolff at 9:44 PM on February 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by nicwolff at 9:44 PM on February 23, 2010 [5 favorites]
Man, her last work, who seem'd so fair,-- In Memoriam A.H.H., Alfred Lord Tennyson
Such splendid purpose in his eyes,
Who roll'd the psalm to wintry skies,
Who built him fanes of fruitless prayer,
Who trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation's final law?
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:30 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Ha! I am thinking of a woman who used to live in the building where I used to live. One time she, who once described herself as a withered old hippie, regaled me about her trip to the Caribbean where she swam with dolphins and had such a feeling of oneness with them. She took great offence when I suggested that the human equivalent of the dolphins possibly might be someone wearing satin hot pants and net hose, standing on a street curb most lasciviously licking his or her lips while beckoning the men driving slowly by his or her corner.
She also claimed to be in telepathic communication with her cat, who, thanks to this and other of her airy fairy concepts of how to be a companion animal's companion human, was a leading contender for the most.screwed.up.cat.ever. She will be so disappointed to hear about the dolphin killer elite.
posted by y2karl at 11:24 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
She also claimed to be in telepathic communication with her cat, who, thanks to this and other of her airy fairy concepts of how to be a companion animal's companion human, was a leading contender for the most.screwed.up.cat.ever. She will be so disappointed to hear about the dolphin killer elite.
posted by y2karl at 11:24 PM on February 23, 2010 [1 favorite]
Better than the sea otter rapist/killer who targeted baby seals.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:10 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:10 AM on February 24, 2010
P.o.B. -- I don't really want to watch that video, but I would be curious as to what 8 myths he's referring to. Could you summarize?
It was posted three months ago and it's about thirty seven minutes. It's a really good watch so I perused through it again. It was six instead of eight and he lists them as such:
Same basic design, novel use
-Aggression
-Theory of Mind
-Golden Rule
-Empathy
-Pleasure in anticipation and gratification postponement
-Culture
He is showing how humans are unique, just not unique in the way people commonly think. He gives examples for each.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:25 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
It was posted three months ago and it's about thirty seven minutes. It's a really good watch so I perused through it again. It was six instead of eight and he lists them as such:
Same basic design, novel use
-Aggression
-Theory of Mind
-Golden Rule
-Empathy
-Pleasure in anticipation and gratification postponement
-Culture
He is showing how humans are unique, just not unique in the way people commonly think. He gives examples for each.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:25 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly.
Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
posted by Davenhill at 12:43 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
posted by Davenhill at 12:43 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Armed dolphins, trained by the US military to shoot terrorists and pinpoint spies underwater, may be missing in the Gulf of Mexico.
Experts who have studied the US navy's cetacean training exercises claim the 36 mammals could be carrying 'toxic dart' guns. Divers and surfers risk attack, they claim, from a species considered to be among the planet's smartest. The US navy admits it has been training dolphins for military purposes, but has refused to confirm that any are missing.
I think I saw a documentary about this. Except they were ill-tempered, mutant sea bass, with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:49 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
Experts who have studied the US navy's cetacean training exercises claim the 36 mammals could be carrying 'toxic dart' guns. Divers and surfers risk attack, they claim, from a species considered to be among the planet's smartest. The US navy admits it has been training dolphins for military purposes, but has refused to confirm that any are missing.
I think I saw a documentary about this. Except they were ill-tempered, mutant sea bass, with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:49 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
So what are we supposed to call this: Dolphanticide? Porpoiscide?
I guess now that those wishing to be reincarnated as dolphins will think twice about that choice; if you kill another species as a dolphin, do you get reincarnated again lower on the food chain?
posted by bwg at 12:57 AM on February 24, 2010
I guess now that those wishing to be reincarnated as dolphins will think twice about that choice; if you kill another species as a dolphin, do you get reincarnated again lower on the food chain?
posted by bwg at 12:57 AM on February 24, 2010
So, the guy on this video says they "aren't killing the little ones, or the big ones". It seems to be the ones 'in between.'
Teenagers.
hmmm ...
posted by Surfurrus at 1:14 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Teenagers.
hmmm ...
posted by Surfurrus at 1:14 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Does this mean we can eat them now?
posted by flippant at 2:27 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by flippant at 2:27 AM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
They do this on porpoise?
The bastards.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:44 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
The bastards.
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:44 AM on February 24, 2010 [1 favorite]
BrotherCaine: Better than the sea otter rapist/killer who targeted baby seals.
Morgan the serial killing sea otter was caught and removed from Elkhorn Slough
posted by Kattullus at 6:46 AM on February 24, 2010
Morgan the serial killing sea otter was caught and removed from Elkhorn Slough
posted by Kattullus at 6:46 AM on February 24, 2010
Well, I still think Adam Savage is noble.
posted by lukemeister at 7:17 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by lukemeister at 7:17 AM on February 24, 2010
P.o.B - fascinating video, thanks for posting it.
posted by sandraregina at 7:31 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by sandraregina at 7:31 AM on February 24, 2010
Wow, dolphins are assholes.
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 8:34 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by mr_crash_davis mark II: Jazz Odyssey at 8:34 AM on February 24, 2010
Clearly, the octopuses are experimenting on the dolphins with their new mind control technology. I think about now is the time to panic.
posted by digitalprimate at 9:06 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by digitalprimate at 9:06 AM on February 24, 2010
Film taken of gangs of dolphins repeatedly ramming baby porpoises, tossing them in the air and pursuing them to the death has solved a long-term mystery of what causes the death of so many of these harmless mammals - but has left animal experts baffled as to the motive.
This is what happens when you train dolphins to play GTA IV.
posted by MikeMc at 9:54 AM on February 24, 2010
This is what happens when you train dolphins to play GTA IV.
posted by MikeMc at 9:54 AM on February 24, 2010
See? I was right all along. Assholes are everywhere.
posted by toekneebullard at 11:50 AM on February 24, 2010
posted by toekneebullard at 11:50 AM on February 24, 2010
I hope this doesn't come as a real surprise to anyone; they are intelligent high level predators and one of the characteristics that almost always goes along with that is a built in capacity for cruelty.
Beside, look at the smug little bastards, anything with a grin like that has gotta have a mean streak.
posted by quin at 12:29 PM on February 24, 2010
Beside, look at the smug little bastards, anything with a grin like that has gotta have a mean streak.
posted by quin at 12:29 PM on February 24, 2010
How screwed up is that? Before I made my last comment, I was going to point out how weird it was that there were no known killer whale attacks on humans, but a quick googling revealed that was only true in the wild, apparently it happens with their trainers every now and again.
What I didn't realize is that there might be a pretty good chance that it was, in fact, happening right then...
posted by quin at 1:50 PM on February 24, 2010
What I didn't realize is that there might be a pretty good chance that it was, in fact, happening right then...
posted by quin at 1:50 PM on February 24, 2010
I keep telling you guys that dolphins are total douches but nobody ever believes me...
posted by porpoise at 7:09 PM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 7:09 PM on February 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
Interesting.
I think the response to the story is more interesting, though. Why is it that some people so crave confirmation that everybody else is just as screwed up as they are? The "noble savage" gets debunked so much that it seems a bit pathological after a while - and now, here we go with dolphins. I can't wait for the killer bonobo expose.
I think the reason why people are so eager to hear that, say, Indians wiped out virtually all megafauna in the Americas is that it absolves us of our guilt. I saw a lot of this coming out of conservative circles years ago, but it's just as common elsewhere - Africans did things that we disapprove of (they had slaves too!), therefore the moral standing of African Americans is reduced and affirmative action is baaaaaaaaad.
I suspect there's more than a bit of that here. We so want to absolve ourselves of our consumption of fossil fuels, our destruction of habitat (and other cultures), our waste, our selfishness, that we dearly, dearly want to find examples that we are not uniquely bad. We want absolution, and we get it with stories like this. I shouldn't feel so bad about dolphins being driven to extinction in places or their habitat being poisoned or about their being caught in nets that catch the fish that end up on our menus - they're killers!
Nyah-nyah-nyah.
posted by jhandey at 3:56 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the response to the story is more interesting, though. Why is it that some people so crave confirmation that everybody else is just as screwed up as they are? The "noble savage" gets debunked so much that it seems a bit pathological after a while - and now, here we go with dolphins. I can't wait for the killer bonobo expose.
I think the reason why people are so eager to hear that, say, Indians wiped out virtually all megafauna in the Americas is that it absolves us of our guilt. I saw a lot of this coming out of conservative circles years ago, but it's just as common elsewhere - Africans did things that we disapprove of (they had slaves too!), therefore the moral standing of African Americans is reduced and affirmative action is baaaaaaaaad.
I suspect there's more than a bit of that here. We so want to absolve ourselves of our consumption of fossil fuels, our destruction of habitat (and other cultures), our waste, our selfishness, that we dearly, dearly want to find examples that we are not uniquely bad. We want absolution, and we get it with stories like this. I shouldn't feel so bad about dolphins being driven to extinction in places or their habitat being poisoned or about their being caught in nets that catch the fish that end up on our menus - they're killers!
Nyah-nyah-nyah.
posted by jhandey at 3:56 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, and as to the "nature red in tooth and claw" thing, that isn't the whole story. I'd point people to Frans de Waal's books as a good introduction.
posted by jhandey at 4:01 AM on February 26, 2010
posted by jhandey at 4:01 AM on February 26, 2010
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posted by Kattullus at 8:17 PM on February 23, 2010 [6 favorites]