Spiked Tea

April 13, 2010 1:34 PM

"Our plan is not to shout them down, but to infiltrate them and push them farther from the mainstream." Inspired by San Francisco's counter-protest to the Westboro Baptist Church protest at Twitter headquarters, Jason Levin is organizing groups to dress like Tea Partiers, talk like Tea Partiers, and carry signs like Tea Partiers. In fact, according to Levin, his Tea Partiers will be completely indistinguishable from Tea Partiers, except for one thing--they won't be out-crazied by anyone.
posted by mattdidthat (234 comments total)

Maybe it's me, but I don't think this is a race anyone should be trying to win.
posted by tommasz at 1:35 PM on April 13, 2010 [13 favorites]

So, his plan is to give the Tea Partiers a perfect excuse to disavow association with anyone who acts like an asshole at any of their rallies? Do I have that right?
posted by EarBucket at 1:38 PM on April 13, 2010 [72 favorites]

Agents provocateurs, essentially?
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:39 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Anyone trying this will quickly run into Poe's Law issues. Trust me, you can be out crazied by serious folks.

Kind of a lame tactic, really, if you want to counter protest just do it honestly. Would you want someone trying to make anti-war protests look bad?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:39 PM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

Now that these guys are getting media attention, there must be groups forming to infiltrate them, in turn. We must get our people on the inside of these groups! Argh, but who can we trust?!
posted by gurple at 1:42 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

they won't be out-crazied by anyone.

Don't challenge these people, because they will rise to it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:42 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

"Ok here is the plan, I'm going to start a fire in my house and then blame it on the crazy people."
posted by nola at 1:42 PM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

Agents provocateurs

If they speak French people are gonna be on to them tout de suite. BAD IDEA.
posted by everichon at 1:43 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

This is a horrible idea, times twelve. Now whenever something happens (and it will without help) the wingnuts can say, "not us, them". Don't do it.
posted by Some1 at 1:43 PM on April 13, 2010 [22 favorites]

Obviously it's a clever ploy by the Tea Party leadership to disavow the crazypants wing of the group. Never thought I'd put "Tea Party" and "clever" in the same sentence.
posted by Standeck at 1:43 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Interesting idea. I'll be saving my protest points for Fred Phelps' demise, whereupon I plan to locate a cooperative guy, hopefully with a beard and some gas money, drive straight to Topeka, then begin making out noisily at the funeral. Maybe get an impromptu dance party started with "Y.M.C.A.," just so his family truly groks the warm and fuzzy feeling of putting a loved one underground while insaniacs do their obnoxious performance art for Jeebus.

Should be a good plan, assuming that while packing, Phelps doesn't emerge from behind a dimly lit hotel door later that night, point at me, and say "Boyyyyyyyy!"
posted by adipocere at 1:44 PM on April 13, 2010 [11 favorites]

He's just given them the perfect "it wasn't us" excuse. A fantastically bad idea.
posted by longdaysjourney at 1:44 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

That "Guns Tomorrow" sign makes me want to bring two signs: "Tragedy Tomorrow" and "Comedy Tonight."

Zero Mostel was the original teabagger

I don't know what that means but it made me laugh anyway
posted by davejay at 1:45 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

I love when the police and the FBI use this tactic.
posted by grobstein at 1:46 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

Also: maybe they could just dress opposite the teabaggers, and carry signs that are mirror images, so that they cancel each other out like sound waves.

disclaimer: my grasp of physics resembles a teabagger's grasp of politics
posted by davejay at 1:46 PM on April 13, 2010 [35 favorites]

Or they could dress in mascot-sized scrotum costumes. That would be cool.
posted by everichon at 1:48 PM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

I was having weird Deja Vu reading this before I realized that it's the plot of Mean Girls.
posted by schmod at 1:48 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Any minute now Sylvester McMonkey McBean is going to drive up and introduce these people to his Star-on machine.
posted by bondcliff at 1:49 PM on April 13, 2010 [18 favorites]

False flag ops can be incredibly effective but they are generally carried out in a clandestine manner. So blabbing it to the internet is not recommended. Maybe there's a COINTEL for Dummies book we can send this guy?
posted by doctor_negative at 1:51 PM on April 13, 2010 [15 favorites]

Presumably the real plan is to not infiltrate the rallies at all, and stay home to watch the Tea Party nutters on the telly beat up their fellow nutters for being slightly too nutty.
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 1:52 PM on April 13, 2010 [47 favorites]

"Our goal is that whenever a tea partier says 'Barack Obama was not born in America,' we're going be right right there next to them saying, 'yeah, in fact he wasn't born on Earth! He's an alien!"

Because the real Tea Partiers will not notice this, just like Robert Erickson slipped under their radar.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:52 PM on April 13, 2010

EarBucket: So, his plan is to give the Tea Partiers a perfect excuse to disavow association with anyone who acts like an asshole at any of their rallies? Do I have that right?

There are many sound reasons to disapprove of a plan like this, but honestly, I don't think the Teabaggers require any assistance in the areas of convenient disavowal, cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy, or intellectual dishonesty. They'll manage all that just fine either way.
posted by Western Infidels at 1:52 PM on April 13, 2010

My friend is organizing a much more polite counter-protest.
posted by mkb at 1:53 PM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

Another bad reason: it's dishonest and sleazy. I disagree with the Tea Partiers, but let them have their (stupid) say. If someone was doing this to an organization that I was in, I would consider this to be way beyond fair play.
posted by Edgewise at 1:54 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

I am super-confused by the Tea Party people. Is there anything more to the movement than a perception that things have changed and an incoherent reaction magnifying whatever grim suspicions they might have? I am not getting any central tenets other than "we're angry and scared and we are fairly sure we're being victimized by someone." I know the Obama-Kenya thing seems to be a talking point and I have heard a lot of talking points, but nothing that says "This is our thesis statement." Mostly, what I have seen seems to be the same old gripes, now brought back to life.

Are they just some spooked cattle without a point to the stampede, or even a specific direction to run in, freaked out by someone with just a tad more melanin in his skin being in office? Or have I just not been listening closely enough?
posted by adipocere at 1:54 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

schmod: I was having weird Deja Vu reading this before I realized that it's the plot of Mean Girls.

Thanks to this link, I just read the entire imdb entry on the continuity errors in this movie. Finished, I thought to myself, "Well, that was a...use of my time."

That's kinda what I think of this tea-party-mocking idea. Seems great at first, but the more it sits with me, the more I think that talents should be spent elsewhere and what seems harmless could really end badly.

(Parallels to Lindsey Lohan's career/life are totally accidental.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:55 PM on April 13, 2010

I love when the police and the FBI use this tactic.

Except the police and FBI don't try to poison the message, they try to find the groups doing more nefarious things. It would be nice to think someone was keeping an eye on The Lynchburg Tea Party, and maybe they are, but I doubt they're carrying wacky signs.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:55 PM on April 13, 2010

The teabaggers are stupid enough on their own, they really don't need outside help.
posted by octothorpe at 1:55 PM on April 13, 2010

Strange bedfellows.
posted by nestor_makhno at 1:56 PM on April 13, 2010

Imagine how frustrating it would be if you're a genuine Teabagger at one of these events and the organizers pick you out as a pretending-to-be-crazy infiltrator.
posted by Stylus Happenstance at 1:56 PM on April 13, 2010 [17 favorites]

How Machiavellian...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 2:00 PM on April 13, 2010

Yeah, this will be a good excuse for 'baggers to crack down on the crazy, which they are allegedly trying to do.
posted by delmoi at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh God this is such a bad idea. Its only going to elevate the level of distrust and paranoia. The tension in the air keeps intensifying and feels like something is gonna have to give sooner or later. I don't like it at all.
posted by charred husk at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2010

Oh, man that's genius, Stylus. You say that you're going to infiltrate and act nutty to make the teabaggers look bad...but then you just stay home and watch them turn on themselves!

Shh, no one tell!
posted by JoanArkham at 2:02 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

adipocere, perhaps you missed the part about there being a black president??111!
posted by contessa at 2:02 PM on April 13, 2010

I don't think this works for the simple fact that the infiltrators will, presumably, be far under the teabagger median age, which I think is 90.
posted by dantsea at 2:06 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Stylus Happenstance: "Imagine how frustrating it would be if you're a genuine Teabagger at one of these events and the organizers pick you out as a pretending-to-be-crazy infiltrator."

This. Perhaps this is the whole idea: make a lot of noise about your plans to infiltrate the group and behave in a crazy fashion, then do absolutely nothing and watch as the group turns on itself, frantically accusing each other of being agents provocateur. It's the Rosenhan experiment applied to politics!
posted by mullingitover at 2:07 PM on April 13, 2010 [13 favorites]

FLT:Except the police and FBI don't try to poison the message, they try to find the groups doing more nefarious things.

I don't know about that. This guy looks like he was the more nafarious guy, and he apparently was on the (FBI) payroll.

But I do agree that random folks shouldn't try to play agent provocateurs (what will the FBI do?).
posted by el io at 2:08 PM on April 13, 2010

Wouldn't it be easier to just send the Free Mumia people to the tea party rallies?
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 2:08 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

The forum seems to have some infiltrators of its own.
posted by i_cola at 2:09 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm reminded of one idea for the Clock of the Long Now - don't build it, just say you're going to (at great length). Build an idea, not a thing.

To be honest, as a piece of media hacking, I find this admirable. Good for him.
posted by Leon at 2:10 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Have these guys re-read The Man Who Was Thursday first.
posted by GuyZero at 2:10 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

I disavow this foolish idea, which I think will backfire by normalizing the median behavior of the tea party crowd.
posted by anigbrowl at 2:12 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

dress like Tea Partiers, talk like Tea Partiers, and carry signs like Tea Partiers.

And fuck like Tea Partiers?
posted by stormpooper at 2:14 PM on April 13, 2010

This reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson's plan when he was asked to cover a Hawaiian marathon in Curse of Lono: He was going to enter the race, and take off at as fast a clip as he could, presumably leaving everybody else in his dust, and discouraged. He was immediately corrected by a friend who had run marathons, who told him a lot of marathoners straight up run at a speed that Thompson, badly out of shape, couldn't hope to match.

In this instance, there is no way these pretenders are going to manage to out-crazy or out-ignorant people who have been working at it for years. They will immediately be lapped, and look foolish.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:15 PM on April 13, 2010 [10 favorites]

"Oh, man that's genius, Stylus. You say that you're going to infiltrate and act nutty to make the teabaggers look bad...but then you just stay home and watch them turn on themselves!"

Hmm, The Monsters are Due on Teabagger Street?
posted by mkhall at 2:15 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Oh, man that's genius, Stylus

Am I invisible in this headband or something? ;-)
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 2:20 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think mullingitover has an accurate prediction of what will happen. The teabaggers (at least the ones I've run into) are paranoid and suspicious, and they're already starting to fight amongst themselves. In practice, this infiltration will probably be a handful of people doing what amounts to performance art a few times for giggles, but fostering an atmosphere of hostility and distrust of any 'bagger newcomers, which of course does wonders for any growing political movement.
posted by dantsea at 2:20 PM on April 13, 2010

Hint, guys:

If you're going to infiltrate teabagger rallies to make them look bad, DON'T EVER TELL ANYONE YOU'RE DOING IT.

Otherwise you're essentially giving them license to go batshit crazy and say it was you.
posted by dunkadunc at 2:22 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Instead of providing the Tea Party bigots a handy alibi, this guy's energies would be better spent highlighting what the Tea baggers actually say. Damn them with their own words, don't put words in their mouths. Of course, if the guy is a Tea bagger operative, then I take my hat off for an effective disinformation campaign. Or, you know, this guy is just a fool.
posted by VikingSword at 2:23 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I am super-confused by the Tea Party people. Is there anything more to the movement than a perception that things have changed and an incoherent reaction magnifying whatever grim suspicions they might have?

Well, it started out as an anti-TARP/anti-stimulus type of thing.
As happens with any protest movement, however, the crazies rapidly took over and now you are just as likely to see a birther sign as a TARP sign.

Which is kind of a shame really.
posted by madajb at 2:25 PM on April 13, 2010

Oops, sorry Mr./Ms. Headband. Or maybe...I've been sent by the teabaggers to sow dissent!
posted by JoanArkham at 2:26 PM on April 13, 2010

You know who else was originally going to infiltrate a bunch of extremists?

second paragraph down
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:27 PM on April 13, 2010

I do think it would be interesting to show up at one of these rallies with, say, a sign that simply says 'I hate black people,' and see if anyone objects.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:31 PM on April 13, 2010

I agree, bad idea.....very bad idea....
posted by HuronBob at 2:32 PM on April 13, 2010

Hahaha oh man, this news sent me scrambling for my copy of The Art of War to search for an appropriate quotation. This will exacerbate the Teahadis naturally paranoid disposition and will either impede their organization by accusations flying everywhere, or will force them to spend a lot of effort to organize an inefficient hierarchy to vet people, issue orders, collect taxes (er, dues), etc. The really brilliant part is that nobody actually has to show up to do this, merely announce that they will be doing this, to sow distrust and paranoia in the ranks.
posted by indubitable at 2:33 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

This is really bad idea on many levels. There are already people who believe Obama is a reptilian alien. There is a continuum of insanity that goes way past those who are still coherent enough to get themselves to a rally.

Mr. Levin is doing this for the attention, and to amuse himself. He's a smug jerk.
posted by longsleeves at 2:34 PM on April 13, 2010

i think it would be better to have a big group of drag queens show up and hold an actual tea party and throw fun insults at them.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 2:37 PM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]

You know, this guy says he was inspired by the San Fransisco counter-protesters , but what they did to the Phelps nutters is a lot more clever and creative than what he's proposing. If he wants to be effective, then copy the counter-protesters for real, by showing up at Tea Party rallies as an absurdist group. Don't infiltrate the Tea Party - upstage them by making the whole event seem ridiculous.

I'm picturing a bunch of people dressed as fish waving around signs that say "Free Abalone!" Or maybe people in togas with a "More Circuses, Less Bread" message or aliens who want Obama to save Mars, anything that's fun and ridiculous enough to draw the media attention away from the dour old Tea Partiers.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:44 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Instead of providing the Tea Party bigots a handy alibi, this guy's energies would be better spent highlighting what the Tea baggers actually say. Damn them with their own words, don't put words in their mouths.

At some point, a dispute at the University of Chicago between students and the administration devolved to the point that each side began simply repoducing the other side's arguments without comment, believing them to be so self-evidently absurd that they could be refuted merely by repeating them.

In an ideal world, I think this tactic would work on the Tea Partiers. Seriously "don't steal from Medicare to pay for socialized medicine" is pretty much self refuting. Obviously, it's not an ideal world, so some comment might be necessary, but muddying their message just makes it harder to bash them for the things they do say.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:45 PM on April 13, 2010

I think it's ok for people to disagree with each other, even when the positions taken seem objectively nutty. However, sneaking into protests to try and be more extreme than the folks involved actually are seems to be less protesting, and more a form of trolling. It's clearly intended to delegitimize people's opinions by making them seem more racist and crazy. They may indeed be that way, but is this kind of behavior going to help?

If Nixon did this kind of crap (and I think there's pretty compelling evidence that he did), we'd denounce it as despicable manipulation. It's still shitty behavior when people who you agree with do it.

I'm also struck by how easily otherwise progressive people resort to the sexual slur "teabagger" when discussing people they disagree with. Seems like the right way to protest things that you disagree with is to reason with them, and to act with maturity, poise, and grace. This is the kind of crap I expect from XBox live, not supposed adults- and certainly not middle school teachers.
posted by jenkinsEar at 2:52 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Have these guys re-read The Man Who Was Thursday first.

Or, for that matter, Mother Night.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:54 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

jenkinsEar, "Teabagger" is their name for themselves. The fact that it's a sexual slur seems to have escaped them entirely.
posted by restless_nomad at 2:54 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

Or maybe...I've been sent by the teabaggers to sow dissent!

Dear God, no! I remember when MetaFilter only had imaginary infiltrators.

Actually, I'm in the UK, so I'm watching all this Tea Party stuff with amused detachment. Until I remember that 943,598 of my fellow countrymen voted for the BNP in the last European election. (The BNP would probably make a Tea Partier's head explode - on the one hand they are terrible racists in favour of sending non-white immigrants 'home', on the other hand they favour returning the telecoms, power and transport to government ownership.)
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2010

Effectiveness of such tactics aside, I must admit I've kind of been hoping for the past year now to see a children's choir singing "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" on the platform at a Sarah Palin rally, as led by their music director who bears a passing resemblance to Sacha Baron Cohen in a vaguely old-fashioned brown suit.
posted by scody at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

restless_nomad, I suspect that is not true. But even if it were, you're basically calling them derogatory names based on sexual preference- which I would not expect to see in an otherwise enlightened community.

Do you use the N word when discussing rappers? As a white guy, I suspect the "They use that name" defense wouldn't fly for me.
posted by jenkinsEar at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2010

I saw an image where teabaggers brag that if they're teabaggers then their "opponents" must be teabag-ees so I guess they're getting past their homophobia at least.
posted by GuyZero at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2010

maybe they could just dress opposite the teabaggers, and carry signs that are mirror images, so that they cancel each other out like sound waves.

Actually, all you need to do is trick one into saying "Reggabaet" and they will be forced to return to the 5th Dimension.
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:01 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Also, if they can create as much offensive fun and art as the COE, then good on them. If they can't, they should probably not try.
posted by el io at 3:02 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think its brilliant, but then I was part of the WBC SF counter-protest and I love me some subversive street theater. You all thought it was funny when Kevin Smith did it.


Would you want someone trying to make anti-war protests look bad?
I have yet to see an anti-war protest that didn't call for a face palm
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 3:04 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Sarah Palin and the Tea-Partiers will be in Boston (home of the original Boston Tea Party -- December 16, 1773 protest. Taxation without Representation, anyone?) tomorrow.

Newly-elected Massachusetts U.S. Senator Scott Brown (whom the Tea Party movement takes credit for electing) will not be joining them on Boston Common.

Other featured guests/speakers include former "SNL cast member Victoria Jackson and some guy who had a small role on Home Improvement." *

'Crash The Party' will also be there.
posted by ericb at 3:05 PM on April 13, 2010

I'm on my way out the door but it appears that the term has been the subject of some debate among conservatives. I'm not quite sure what the verdict is among actual members of the Tea Party, but at least at this point they acknowledge that it's... problematic.

But they totally started it.
posted by restless_nomad at 3:09 PM on April 13, 2010

I suspect that is not true. But even if it were, you're basically calling them derogatory names based on sexual preference- which I would not expect to see in an otherwise enlightened community.

Do you use the N word when discussing rappers? As a white guy, I suspect the "They use that name" defense wouldn't fly for me.
posted by jenkinsEar at 2:56 PM on April 13

so basically you're saying that "teabagger" is the same as "nigger" hmm yes that line of reasoning makes a lot of sense
posted by Optimus Chyme at 3:13 PM on April 13, 2010

Sarah Palin and the Tea-Partiers

Man, I remember seeing them open for the Box Tops in '68.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:18 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Bulgaroktonos:

I would love to hear more about that dispute, do you have any more info?
posted by Carillon at 3:19 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

I guess, then, we should call them "teabaggars". Fair enough.
posted by everichon at 3:21 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

In fact, according to Levin, his Tea Partiers will be completely indistinguishable from Tea Partiers, except for one thing -- they won't be out-crazied by anyone they will not all be white.
posted by benzenedream at 3:32 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

So off the topic but on the topic: I'm going to counter-protest one of the Tax Day rallies, and I'd love to have some input from the braintrust here as to what a truly kickass counter-protest sign should say. I've been torn between the "I HATE ROADS" approach, the "Keep your socialist hands of my socialist Medicare" approach, and a few others.

I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'll be changing any minds, so I'm taking more of the "make sane bypassers think and/or laugh" approach. Thoughts?
posted by rollbiz at 3:35 PM on April 13, 2010

Well, it started out as an anti-TARP/anti-stimulus type of thing.
As happens with any protest movement, however, the crazies rapidly took over and now you are just as likely to see a birther sign as a TARP sign.

Took over? I thought the whole Teabagger thing was diluted because any conservative rally with home-made signs full of spelling errors or factual failures were considered Teabagger rallies.

'Crash The Party' will also be there.

That site was a mess from the beginning.

Maybe it'll all devolve on it's own, with too many divergent forces striving to shape the over-all efforts.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:36 PM on April 13, 2010

rollbiz, "you got your socialism on my medicare!". With a friend holding a sign saying, "You got your medicare all over my socialism!". And another friend with a sign saying, "two great tastes that taste great together."
posted by stavrogin at 3:40 PM on April 13, 2010 [4 favorites]

I'm on my way out the door...
posted by restless_nomad

Heh. Ha.
posted by marxchivist at 3:46 PM on April 13, 2010

Except the police and FBI don't try to poison the message

Isn't a relatively common tactic to place agents in a peaceful protest, who then attempt to urge the protesters into illegal/violent behavior, so that they can be legally arrested?
posted by davejay at 3:46 PM on April 13, 2010

there is no way these pretenders are going to manage to out-crazy or out-ignorant people who have been working at it for years

HST also said, "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." This is what we really need. We need OUR MAN INSIDE. But you're absolutely right: to infiltrate with cold efficiency, you don't out crazy with pretenders, you out crazy with actual world-class crazy. Somebody filthy enough to lead these Nazi fuckers right off of a cliff. This is why I think we ought to release Charles Manson - right after we go all Manchurian Candidate on his ass. Then we just sit back and watch the hilarity ensue. It's basically the same plan we've been using in the Middle East for the last 30 years, so you know we've just about got the kinks worked out by now. What could go wrong?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:53 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

You've got the right idea there, rollbiz. Just push it a little further so your message is obvious to everyone, even if people aren't paying much attention. Maybe "ROADS AND SCHOOLS SUCK!"
posted by Kevin Street at 4:07 PM on April 13, 2010

These sign suggestions are too coherent. You want crazy, right?

"Never do 5/21 the European socism - Fight the Interatal of GUNs NOW!"

"Is that rain, or KENYA WITCH Obama has now control whether?? STEAL HIS UMBRELLA no thank you!!"

"This reason of COnstitution USA FOREVER - not with OBAMA DENTISTRY are you ready?"
posted by Meatbomb at 4:42 PM on April 13, 2010 [56 favorites]

False flag ops can be incredibly effective but they are generally carried out in a clandestine manner.

But the kind of people who can do false flag ops have a budget to PAY the actors. The only reason we know of False Flag Operations is some have failed to be clandestine.

The 'go be crazy' people don't. But they can toss out the idea and "independent operators" can copy the stunt and then they can amplify the effect. Just more grist for the John Robb Global Guerrillas idea.

Somebody filthy enough to lead these Nazi fuckers right off of a cliff.

Considering the start was "lets have a we think taxes suck" with a historic "anti tax" branding and now has Sarah Palin getting paid to talk - the idea of a tax protest did go off the cliff.

And the upside - the GOP is rid of Sarah Palin for the moment. How much would *YOU* pay and how downright nasty would *YOU* be to be rid of Sarah the Entertainer if you were the GOP? As an added bonus you can trash an anti-tax movement so that way the system you know and love keeps going.
posted by rough ashlar at 4:43 PM on April 13, 2010

"Marmot knows SECRET OBAMA PLAN of new KILL you sytem:
HANDS off Marmot democratics, AS YOU DO"
posted by Meatbomb at 4:47 PM on April 13, 2010 [9 favorites]

Isn't a relatively common tactic to place agents in a peaceful protest, who then attempt to urge the protesters into illegal/violent behavior, so that they can be legally arrested?

Not to mention deep infiltration of protest groups by the security services - Anti-Fascist Action/Class War types I know used to joke that they sometimes wondered whether they were fighting alongside MI5 against MI5.
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 5:03 PM on April 13, 2010

Well, it started out as an anti-TARP/anti-stimulus type of thing.

If you can find a telling of the tale of how it was born that has a start date before the below events do post it. Your version is correct under 'we don't like the way tax money is being spent' but ignores the tax-day tie in.

Donny Ferguson, Director of Communications, Libertarian National Committee
[e-mail] claims"
"The Libertarian Party of Illinois got the idea to hold an April 15, 2009 anti-tax “Boston Tea Party” in Chicago way back in December of 2008. On February 10, 2009 they started a Facebook page and began promoting the website throughout the Illinois media."

(and when you "do your part by supporting your local Libertarian Party, attending your local Tea Party and welcoming home the vast, untapped libertarian electorate." be sure to ask the Libertarians there how their court watching program is coming along. When they counter "what program?" point out if the courthouses are made of crooked timber, how can their Libertarian vision come to pass with no "justice for all")
posted by rough ashlar at 5:10 PM on April 13, 2010

Meatbomb: I think you need to include a bit more awkward unintended sexuality in order for it to be a true teabagger sign.

"Obmacare shoved deep down my throt? YES GOD YES plese moar NOT"
posted by Think_Long at 5:14 PM on April 13, 2010

This guy COULD be an actual teabagger double agent pretending to be a liberal who is pretending to be a teabagger in order to discredit the liberal's cause.
posted by lalochezia at 5:19 PM on April 13, 2010 [5 favorites]

This idea backfire? Unpossible!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:28 PM on April 13, 2010

Horrible idea. Do we want them doing this sort of thing to us? No. Hunter S Thompson alleged in Fear and Loathing on the Campaing Trail '72 that Nixon's people were driving around with "McGovern for President" bumber stickers and cutting people off, etc. Let's take the high road and beat them with our better ideas, not channel G. Gordon Liddy.
posted by Daddy-O at 5:30 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

Alex Jones coverage
posted by thescientificmethhead at 6:01 PM on April 13, 2010

I would just like to mention that my husband has been to more than one Tea Party event, and has even in the past been contacted by NPR re the movement.

I'm kinda offended at the lazy and prejudicial characterisation of the people who are participating in these protests. Yes, they do have their share of nuts and kooks; but guess what-EVERY PROTEST GROUP DOES. To include your favorite cause.

So quit calling my husband and his compatriots ignorant names, please. It doesn't reflect well on the namecallers.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:22 PM on April 13, 2010

Lots of nice people are members of nasty extremist groups.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:36 PM on April 13, 2010 [9 favorites]

Personally, I advocate dressing up as Native Americans and simply smashing boxes of tea all over the place. Remind them what a real tea party is supposed to look like. For reference, look at the label on an old Snapple bottle.
posted by Hactar at 6:45 PM on April 13, 2010

Every group is extremist to SOMEBODY.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:50 PM on April 13, 2010

So quit calling my husband and his compatriots ignorant names, please. It doesn't reflect well on the namecallers.

Wow.
For a movement that seems to be completely based on name calling, this is rich.
posted by ofthestrait at 6:50 PM on April 13, 2010 [19 favorites]

Lying Lefties. What else is new.
posted by HTuttle at 6:57 PM on April 13, 2010

I prefer this kind of tea party.
posted by Kevin Street at 6:58 PM on April 13, 2010

...you're basically calling them derogatory names based on sexual preference- which I would not expect to see in an otherwise enlightened community.


Hey, since when is teabagging strictly a gay thing? Is it still gay if you do it with a woman?
posted by Mister_A at 7:06 PM on April 13, 2010

Tea Partiers are racists pretending to be economic populists. It's that simple.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:23 PM on April 13, 2010 [8 favorites]

If you can find a telling of the tale of how it was born that has a start date before the below events do post it. Your version is correct under 'we don't like the way tax money is being spent' but ignores the tax-day tie in.

Donny Ferguson, Director of Communications, Libertarian National Committee
[e-mail] claims"
"The Libertarian Party of Illinois got the idea to hold an April 15, 2009 anti-tax “Boston Tea Party” in Chicago way back in December of 2008. On February 10, 2009 they started a Facebook page and began promoting the website throughout the Illinois media."

According to the eXile, the chicagoteaparty.com domain was registered back in August 2008 by Milt Rosenberg, a right-wing talk radio host in Chicago. So that predates whatever this Libertarian Party fellow is claiming.

be sure to ask the Libertarians there how their court watching program is coming along. When they counter "what program?" point out if the courthouses are made of crooked timber, how can their Libertarian vision come to pass with no "justice for all"

Well, that's a bit lengthy to write on a protest sign, but you're definitely on the right track.
posted by indubitable at 7:27 PM on April 13, 2010

>: Lying Lefties. What else is new.

HTuttle, you're browsin' for a spousin'.
posted by dunkadunc at 7:42 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

they will not all be white.

There was that one guy with the AK-47 ...
posted by krinklyfig at 7:44 PM on April 13, 2010

What? An AK-47?

Sounds like a Commie Gun to me!
posted by dunkadunc at 7:46 PM on April 13, 2010

Hey, since when is teabagging strictly a gay thing? Is it still gay if you do it with a woman?

I guess if it's gay or not is really a state of mind. We're talking about sex, right?

If you're talking about the protests, then, yes, it's always gay. And, by gay, I mean homosexual.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:47 PM on April 13, 2010

Ha, ha.

YOUR HUSBAND AND HIS COMPATRIOTS ARE IGNORANT NAMES!!!!!
posted by yhbc at 7:48 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Tea Partiers are racists pretending to be economic populists. It's that simple

Okay, if it's that simple, how about supporting that remark? You are lumping a whole group of people together that are concerned about the rising deficit and about the longterm economic health of this nation (whether they can intelligently articulate their points or not) and accusing them of racial prejudice?

You are aware there are some African Americans in this movement too, right? Are they racists? And are you saying that the subset of people who are, say, economically conservative has to automatically correlate with the subset of people who are racist?

Sorry, your statement is the moral equivalent of saying that all people of race x are shiftless and lazy. Not to mention intellectually lazy.

Just because you don't care for the people who participate in these protests and just because you don't like their views does not give you the right to paint an entire group as racist. Because if you do then you are no better than you think they are.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:48 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

Sounds like a Commie Gun to me!

Yeah, didn't those Hottentots or whatever that group called themselves have Soviet guns?
posted by krinklyfig at 7:49 PM on April 13, 2010

Every group is extremist to SOMEBODY.

Yeah, esp. groups that call high-ranking politicians faggots and niggers. That's pretty extremist to, well, SOMEBODY.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:50 PM on April 13, 2010 [7 favorites]

Just because you don't care for the people who participate in these protests and just because you don't like their views does not give you the right to paint an entire group as racist. Because if you do then you are no better than you think they are.

Well, nobody seems willing to purge this element from the group. In fact, they seem to be a feature of the movement. I'm sure that not everyone involved is racist, but it sure seems like they're comfortable with that sort of thing.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:57 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Ah, so wait - in some magnificent post-modern protest tactic and mocking satirical commentary they're actually going to just end up moving the Overton window further to the right? So they're ultimately going to make the Tea Partiers look like the sane ones?

*groans*
posted by symbioid at 8:00 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

St. Alia said: You are lumping a whole group of people together that are concerned about the rising deficit and about the longterm economic health of this nation (whether they can intelligently articulate their points or not) and accusing them of racial prejudice?

If their true concern is the nation's economic health, why weren't they protesting when there was a white president ruining the economy?
posted by amyms at 8:04 PM on April 13, 2010 [36 favorites]

And yet, reading the TPM comments, realizing that we could have our own form of paranoid inducing COINTELPRO (without all that nasty spying) to get the tea party movement to further tear itself asunder is certainly an interesting proposition. Hmm...
posted by symbioid at 8:05 PM on April 13, 2010

If their true concern is the nation's economic health, why weren't they protesting when there was a white president ruining the economy?

Because most of them were busy trying to make a living and not paying attention to the economic news and not believing those who said the sky was falling. I personally don't think it would have mattered WHO was in the White House once the merde hit the fan. Look, I have one of those subprime mortgages myself...as long as people were able to get mortgages and buy houses and get credit, they weren't caring about what economists might be saying.

(Mind you I was privy to quite a few discussions while Bush was in office where Republicans-yes, Republican party members-were bitching about his policies. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:13 PM on April 13, 2010

PS what a wonderful thing to try to intimidate people into shutting up by throwing the word "racist" at them. Well, it won't work with me, I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:15 PM on April 13, 2010

(forgot my cynicism tag.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 8:15 PM on April 13, 2010

You are lumping a whole group of people together that are concerned about the rising deficit and about the longterm economic health of this nation (whether they can intelligently articulate their points or not) and accusing them of racial prejudice?

not to pile on here, but seriously, is your husband that oblivious to how the tea party is representing itself? if he chooses to be part of it with what we know about it--which is, basically, that it is or has become a catch-all group for multiple brands of ill-defined rage and xenophobia--then criticism comes with the territory.

and, as anyms mentioned, i would like to know where all this concern over our economic health was directed before 1/20/2009.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 8:22 PM on April 13, 2010

PS what a wonderful thing to try to intimidate people into shutting up by throwing the word "racist" at them. Well, it won't work with me, I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them.

My best friend is biracial.

Actually, that's not fair. But I think denying the ugly stream of racism and bigotry at the core of Teabagger Party "policy" requires denying reality. Sorry, but simply saying that you're not racist doesn't let your political sympathies off the hook.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:23 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]

St. Alia said: I personally don't think it would have mattered WHO was in the White House once the merde hit the fan.

Bush was in the White House when "the merde hit the fan" but the teabaggers conveniently ignore that. Instead, they're devoting all their energy to demonizing Obama, who is actually taking positive steps to heal the economic mess (and they're doing so with tactics that just happen to highlight the fact that he's a black man).
posted by amyms at 8:35 PM on April 13, 2010 [11 favorites]

wrt infiltration, i don't think it is necessary. the teabaggers are doing fine on their own at showing us crazy, along with the likes of bachmann and palin. my hope is that with crazy staring America in the face, we'll back away from it; but if for some reason that's the direction voters head--knowing what we know about them now, and buying into their overstated paranoia and willful stupidity--well, then, we're pretty much lost already, and deservedly so.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 8:37 PM on April 13, 2010

I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them.

Showing your biracial grandchildren to us isn't the problem. Showing them to the people in your movement who make racist remarks about the biracial president and scream "NIGGER" at John Lewis? Now that ought to give you pause.
posted by scody at 8:43 PM on April 13, 2010 [13 favorites]

People,

Don't laugh at Palin. She's still a political force.

I foresee her being used as a figurehead by sinister forces, with the expectation that they can just get rid of her when she's served her purpose. What's really scary, though, is that she might run out of control- that she might stop acting like a figurehead and just do whatever the fuck she wants, to the point where they can't get rid of her.

That's scary.
posted by dunkadunc at 8:46 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Actually, St. Alia, I regret my joking comparison of the Tea Bag partiers to Nazis. At least the modern day Nazis have the courage of their convictions. I'm sure there are some really nice Nazis. It's not fair to paint them all with one brush, after all. Just because some of them may get a little carried away from time to time is no reason to assume that a given Nazi is full of hate. Maybe they just joined because they prefer the Nazi position on fashion. So, yeah. Same thing with the Tea Bag party, I guess. They're really just the party of fiscal responsibility. That's why they have all the rallies with signs supporting famous economists and bank regulation. Who wouldn't want to join a movement so full of positivism and clarity.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:50 PM on April 13, 2010 [16 favorites]

Oh my god, meatbomb. Those are some pure nuggets of Time Cube caliber crazy. I commend you for them.
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:03 PM on April 13, 2010

Mod note: comments removed - go to metatalk if you need to have this discussion, it's not happening here, thanks
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:13 PM on April 13, 2010

I love the Tea Party/birther spectacle because it's so difficult to tell if it's performance art, or if it truly is a movement of white heterosexual males who feel threatened and impotent because their white heterosexual male privilege is slowly being eroded away by social changes, and the only way they know how to react to that is by waving their guns around and scrawling incomprehensible slogans on signs. If this jerk goes ahead and explicitly makes it performance art, it'll ruin the entertainment value.
posted by cmonkey at 9:17 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

Speaking of John Lewis: N-Word Feud Still Rages After Video Discredited
posted by homunculus at 9:37 PM on April 13, 2010

St. Alia, while I don't think all tea partiers are racists (if I may throw out my own I-know-a-black-teabagger reference -- well, I did, but he no longer associates himself with the movement, preferring now just to categorize himself as "conservative"), I do think that there are more than just a smattering of people who are using the rallies as an opportunity to categorize Obama as an "other" -- debating his citizenship (birthers) or religious affiliation. Basically, to set him firmly outside what far right conservatives mean when they say "real American." Maybe they would never admit among themselves that it's his skin color that bothers them the most, but I think when it comes right down to it, they do fear a black president.

When they use slogans like "We want our America back," who do you think they mean by "we" and what definition of "America" is it that they believe has been lost? It's not just random rhetoric -- these words have punch and are loaded with meaning to the types of people who attend these rallies. I think among a fair number of them, the America that they want back is the kind of America with a white guy in charge again. I think the remaining tea partiers just loathe Democrats, period; they see conservatives as the only type of legitimate leadership at the top of the government.

With regard to the stated aims of the Tea Party (small government, no more bailouts) -- the weak link in all of it is that they are addressing the symptoms, not the causes. A whole other discussion could be had about the roots of the credit crisis, the mortgage crisis, the banks and insurance companies failing, and the domino effect that created. And the fact is, that it was the type of conservative policies (deregulation of the banking industry, cutting taxes for the wealthy when we were $1trillion in the hole for Iraq) that are equally, if not chiefly, to blame for where we stand right now economically. I reject this notion that they were too distracted to notice before, or they would have protested Bush too. If they were distracted at all, it was because they were feeding off of - or at least attempting to feed off - the fatted calf that 8 years of their ideology was preparing for us.
posted by contessa at 9:54 PM on April 13, 2010 [13 favorites]

I personally don't think it would have mattered WHO was in the White House once the merde hit the fan.

When President Clinton left office there was an all-time record $128 billion surplus. President Bush turned that into an all-time record $482 billion deficit. When exactly did these people "that are concerned about the rising deficit" start to get concerned?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:56 PM on April 13, 2010 [50 favorites]

kirkaracha: "When exactly did these people "that are concerned about the rising deficit" start to get concerned?"


January 20, 2009
posted by Some1 at 10:31 PM on April 13, 2010 [3 favorites]

dress like Tea Partiers, talk like Tea Partiers, and carry signs like Tea Partiers.

I must admit that this sounds marginally more interesting than "Talk Like A Pirate Day".
posted by KokuRyu at 10:33 PM on April 13, 2010

Perhaps the word should be written "teaba**er", for reasons that should be obvious, especially to the "ni**ers" and the "fa**ots" whom the teaba**ers so often disrespect.

To the finger-waggers (or should that be "finger-wa**ers") among us: if ignorant, racist assholes must not be taken advantage of for comedic purposes, perhaps because it is cruel, perhaps because it might stir them to worse excess ... I ask: then what use to humanity are they at all? Some people's purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others. Teaba**ers are eager volunteers for this duty. Let them carry it out.

As others have pointed out, the sheer brilliance of publicly and loudly stating the intention to do this, to uber-teabag, is that you don't have to ever actually do it. Indeed it would be counterproductive to actually do it, because that would spoil the hilarious spectacle of genuine teaba**ers accusing each other of being planted liberal seditionists out to make the whole lot of them look like idiots. And it doesn't matter if they know this, because, if they were capable of getting the joke they wouldn't be teaba**ers in the first place.

This is the funniest prank I have heard of in ages. Ten points to Ravenclaw.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:53 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

Charles Mudede calls them 'Tea People'. I like the sound of that.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 11:27 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]

PS what a wonderful thing to try to intimidate people into shutting up by throwing the word "racist" at them. Well, it won't work with me, I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them.

I don't want to sound condescending, but one thing you need to learn about protesting is that it's political. I understand that politics is nasty, but you have to account for that and deal with it. Believe me, it's nasty all around. People wouldn't be calling out racism if it weren't there, and it's way past time for the conservative wing of the political US to finally reject it once and for all. Because you have not done that. Not yet.

Having biracial grandchildren and a party chairman who's black doesn't count. The problem is the remnants of the Southern Strategy and a complete disregard for any needs minority groups express. This doesn't work as a political strategy to appeal to minorities in general, but it betrays that the group as a whole is not really interested in what real people really need. The attack on ACORN was one of many examples. All that gets you is more poor minorities disenfranchised. And the Tea Party protests have people with overtly racist signs, and nobody's kicking them out or shouting them down. So, what do you expect people are going to think? If you want to change their minds, politically speaking, you have to start with the idea that it's not their fault they don't understand you. It's your fault for failing to communicate. If you don't want the party to communicate the message that you're racists, you have a lot of work to do.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:57 PM on April 13, 2010 [6 favorites]

PS what a wonderful thing to try to intimidate people into shutting up by throwing the word "racist" at them.

Nobody wants to intimidate you, they just want to save valuable mental space by ignoring you. When you associate yourself with morons, crazy people and racists, it makes it easy to do.

Yay for conservatives getting to see what a pointless waste of time that protest rallies are.
posted by empath at 12:13 AM on April 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

One of the things that seems to really characterize the Tea Party is what Fred Clark calls "the cult of offendedness" [third link]. It's a dishonest rhetorical technique that seeks to claim the moral high ground by "taking offense" at some slight, manufactured or real. The umbrage taken is essentially an end to itself, so there's never any possibility of "un-offending" the person who is deploying it.
posted by breath at 12:47 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

My best friend is biracial.

Hey, Blazecock, I think you don't understand what St. Alia is saying.

Let me tell about my father. He grew up in Texas, he has a thing for Harry "Lighthorse" Lee, Willie Nelson, John Mosby, and Sarah Palin (in that order). I grew up with him regularly using the terms "gook," "nigger," "towel head," "camel jockey," and "wet back" in casual conversation.

For the record, my dad isn't some ditch digger, welder, or diesel mechanic; he flew Huey gunships in Vietnam and earned a bronze star and two purple hearts. The GI Bill let him get a degree in accounting. He taught himself how to program in his spare time between raising four kids. Now, he's one of the bearded guru's that manage the domain name system that keeps the internet running. He designed and manages a little sliver of the software that makes the internet possible. If it wasn't for him, we might not be having this conversation.

My dad was a loud-mouth racist a-hole. An amazing transformation took place when my sister married a black man. Then she had two kids--really, really cute kids. They are smart, curious, talented, athletic and outgoing kids. My father's only grands are half black and, to my delight, it doesn't matter one bit to him. He loves them, without any reservations. All of a sudden the issue of race is not an issue to him.

In the past couple years, I have had the pleasure of watching my father's angry racist heart melt.

The racist anger died out fast. He's past the easy and predictable racist sarcasm and the eager recriminations. There's no more casual hate towards the guys working at 7-11, or the guys driving a cab, or the ladies at the dry cleaners. The established repertoire of hate just disappeared. POOF. All of a sudden he wants to know more about the Dominican culture and his son-in-law's people. He wants to know more about clusters of family in the Boston and NYC immigrant communities. He wants to know more about the story of his family's roots, on both sides: the white bootlegging, Confederate side, and the black, enslaved, sugar cane rumrunning side. The amazing thing is that he's open and curious and trying to get the rest of the family to face a few uncomfortable truths about our past.

Blazecock, I know you're being glib, but I wanted to point out that you have no clue what is feels like to be a proud grandparent and it's pretty low for you to snark on St. Alia like that. She has every right to be proud of her grands and hold them up as an example of something wonderful. I imagine that they opened up her eyes and her heart a little, like what I got to see happen to my dad.

And to scody, if she can be proud of them to a bunch of strangers on the interwebs, why doubt that she's be proud to show them off to her friends, her neighbors, and her community.

I'm pretty put off that a few of you can make such a negative smear out of something so positive. I've seen the pictures, St. Alia's grandkids are almost as cute as my nephew and niece. Almost.

Getting over racism (casual or not) is done deal when it's in the family.
posted by peeedro at 12:58 AM on April 14, 2010 [8 favorites]

I'm kinda surprised that ImprovEverywhere hasn't done some sort of Ghosts of Pasha thing yet with the teabaggers. Maybe they don't get that far out of NYC...
posted by blueberry at 1:51 AM on April 14, 2010

Getting over racism (casual or not) is done deal when it's in the family.

I'm glad that your dad has had a change of heart, but I don't agree that this is true for every family. My cousin is biracial (half-white and half-black) and my grandfather, who was a horrible racist before she was born, was still a horrible racist after. Yeah he loved my cousin to death, she was his grandchild, but it didn't seem to have put much of a dent in his bigotry. Prejudiced people seem to have an limitless ability to compartmentalize to justify their own small-mindedness.

As an aside, I'm not sure what was being implied by this comment:

my dad isn't some ditch digger, welder, or diesel mechanic

My grandfather was a mechanic and he was racist as shit. His son (my dad) is also a mechanic and doesn't have a racist bone in his body. What does someone's profession have to do with it?
posted by supercrayon at 1:56 AM on April 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

Getting over racism (casual or not) is done deal when it's in the family.

Sadly in my experience, this isn't true at all. Those I know just seem to make an exception for those they love and carry on as usual with everyone else.
posted by ukdanae at 2:31 AM on April 14, 2010 [4 favorites]

the chicagoteaparty.com domain was registered back in August 2008 by Milt Rosenberg, a right-wing talk radio host in Chicago. So that predates whatever this Libertarian Party fellow is claiming.

If you read the comments on various web sites, they mention a group called Boston Tea Party as a political party, and over the years plenty of people have advocated sending tea bags to elected officials. Going back to the late 1970's it seems. So the idea is not new. What seems to be "new" is the coverage of the idea.

The tie that is trying to be made is back to rhe wall street "reporter", Santellii was it?, who on national TV called for a "tea party protest". Is he on record claiming where he got the idea anyplace?
posted by rough ashlar at 5:44 AM on April 14, 2010

PS what a wonderful thing to try to intimidate people into shutting up by throwing the word "racist" at them. Well, it won't work with me, I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them.

Would you or your husband take the grandkids with you to a Tea Party event? (Leaving aside the various other problems with taking young kids on protest marches at all.)

Honest question. Because - admittedly from the other side of the Atlantic and way off to the other side of the political spectrum - from what I've seen of the Tea Party protests, they involve a lot of thinly-veiled racism, which on one occasion (that I know of) has spilled over into people spitting on a black man while calling him a nigger.

If I happened to turn run into one of these protests with my mixed race nieces, I'm pretty sure I'd get them the hell out of there.
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 5:46 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

Sure, why not? They'd have adorable little signs too.

(and because I am their grandmother the signs would have correct spelling and be gramatically correct!)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:49 AM on April 14, 2010

Well, nobody seems willing to purge this element from the group.

Go hang out on Move On or DU or wherever represents "the left" and their political protest organizing efforts.

You'll see "people in leadership" complain about the 'legalize it' or 'free mumbi' or even the black bloc protesters showing up at "their rally".

Perhaps when "they" can get rid of "their crazies" your chastisement would have meaning verses the hollow ring it is.
posted by rough ashlar at 5:50 AM on April 14, 2010

I personally don't think it would have mattered WHO was in the White House once the merde hit the fan.

All that would have changed is what press outlet pushed the "message". For some reason a group of people think that 'borrow, tax and spend' is a better plan than 'tax and spend'. Odds are if the leadership was "the other guys" here on the blue you'd have gotten more posts about out of control spending and the Libertarian 'boston tea party' protest would have never gotten any national exposure.

Oh there would be the typical tax day protests, but no one would be covering a bus load of people going to that protest. Instead the tax day protest would feature "stop the war" and talk about the amounts of money being poured down that rat hole.

When President Clinton left office there was an all-time record $128 billion surplus.

Keep in mind that President Bill also signed off on the deregulation of banking. And most of the blue seems to lay a whole heap of blame at the feet of banks.

What does someone's profession have to do with it?

That is an 'ism that dare not be spoken of - classism. The same way no one will talk about the Koran and its "no interest" policy - the money system in America is based on interest and to say "you can't do that" is the REAL threat to "the american way of life".

Think about it. How often could you replace a 'racist' screed with one about 'classism' instead? Its not 100%, but classism threatens the American Myth about working hard.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:08 AM on April 14, 2010

Well, that's a bit lengthy to write on a protest sign

Its not as much fun as going up to anti-abortion protesters with a petition to demand government pay for the raising of the not-aborted to age 18 then the non aborted pay back the kindness of the government largess by becoming solders but you might want to consider creating a sign up sheet for a court watchers program and pushing that on the LPers.

For added fun, see if your local court allows people who are notaries to 'make official' what was said in the court. A tad cheaper than the court transcriptionists/lower barrier of entry.
posted by rough ashlar at 6:13 AM on April 14, 2010

You'll see "people in leadership" complain about the 'legalize it' or 'free mumbi' or even the black bloc protesters showing up at "their rally".

Perhaps when "they" can get rid of "their crazies" your chastisement would have meaning verses the hollow ring it is.

That's why I went to exactly one anti-war protest. A waste of time and energy, and far too many weirdos and grandstanders. It's a loser's tactic, it's desperate, and accomplishes very little except making people feel better about themselves for going.

All of that energy is better spent donating money and time to candidates instead of spending it annoying DC residents by tying up traffic for a few hours and as a bonus, you don't have to spend any time trying to figure out if your comrades are really that dumb or if they are plants from your political enemies.
posted by empath at 6:34 AM on April 14, 2010

St. Alia of the Bunnies: "120PS Well, it won't work with me, I have biracial grandchildren, let me show you them."

That sounds like something that my grandmother would say. And for the record, she was, is and probably always will be racist.
posted by anansi at 6:44 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

instead of spending it annoying DC residents by tying up traffic for a few hours and as a bonus

The tying up traffic and annoying the people of DC sound like a great reason to go!
posted by rough ashlar at 6:57 AM on April 14, 2010

The tying up traffic and annoying the people of DC sound like a great reason to go!

I live in DC, trust me, we're used to it.
posted by empath at 7:04 AM on April 14, 2010

Because most of them were busy trying to make a living and not paying attention to the economic news and not believing those who said the sky was falling.

Nah, they're definitely angry now because Obama is president. There's no way that there'd be the same vitriol if McCain had somehow won.

I think there are plenty of racist Tea Partiers, but there are also plenty of Tea Partiers who are simply earnest believers in a swath of traditional "conservative" values -- against spending on social welfare ("big government") but supportive of a strong national defense, against loosening of social morals, etc. Don't forget how hateful the Right was towards Bill Clinton (and treatment of Ms. Clinton was even worse) back in the day.

If anything, it's the commentators on Fox News et al who have racist motivations and Tea Partiers are just responding to the rhetoric. They're getting fired up. They're being told now to be angry at what the president is doing, and so they are.

Just like when Bush was president and I'd get inflamed by what he'd done. The choices he made angered me because of my core set of values, just like Obama's actions threaten the Tea Partiers' core set of values.

However, this is where it is different, in my opinion: most of the things that Tea Party is being told are untrue. In the same way that Fox News whitewashed everything Bush did during his presidency, they are now, erm, blackwashing Obama.

And then of course there is the awkwardness of the "reality has a liberal bias". I genuinely think that ultimately, the positions, ideals, and values of the Right are not based entirely on sound reasoning and logic. The dyslogia has a very specific source, I think -- an inability to recognize that people will never share core beliefs and behaviors. To wit: pretty much only conservatives believe that the "Just Say No" tactic will work with drugs. If only everyone agreed that they were bad and stopped using them the Drug War could finally be over. The same thing with gay marriage and rights for homosexuals -- if they would only stop being gay, this wouldn't be an issue (and honestly, this is the most generous way that I can think of their position. Otherwise, if you believe that homosexuality can't be "cured", it's basically that homosexuality is gross and therefore homosexuals have no right to love and happiness). Similarly, social welfare isn't needed because so-and-so example was able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and so everyone else should be able to do the same (again, I'm fairly sure this is the viewpoint; either that, or that poor people should just die).

There's also the oddity of the demographics. If you look at voters, below a certain threshold (poor and working class) they're overwhelming Democrats. If you look at people who are upper middle class (80k-150k or so), they're also fairly likely to be liberal. There are more Republicans in the group of people making around 35-70k a year and then it jumps to people making a whole lot of money. The people making a whole lot of money tend to be Republicans because the Republican party guards and protects their wealth (they could care less about the social policy, which is why I suspect you'd find relatively few dirt-poor Log Cabin Republicans). Those in the middle class, however, do not stand a chance of benefiting economically or socially from Republican policies (and I suppose this is my opinion here, certainly Republicans would argue that their fiscal policies are more beneficial across the board but I don't find that terribly compelling). Where they do benefit, however, is culturally: many of them are social conservatives and the Republican party supports their interests two ways: first, by upholding, defending, and praising those values; and two, by denigrating and criticizing those who threaten those values.

tldr: Tea Partiers are angry because Obama is president, not because they're only now realizing the economy is borked. Some tea partiers are racist, but maybe some of them simply hold conservative values and then racist political commentators fan the flames to make them angry.
posted by Deathalicious at 7:32 AM on April 14, 2010 [11 favorites]

There's no way that there'd be the same vitriol if McCain had somehow won.

Some of it is the normal name-calling BS of politics. Remember Bush == Hitler? You'd have a different group spewing vitriol with the messages in that vitriol being different - but the choosing of 'harmful' words would be there. Using nigger happens to be the most hateful some can come up with is all.

Obama's actions threaten the Tea Partiers' core set of values.

What are the core set of values? The kind of values you could deliver on as a political party, not 'their core value is racism'.
posted by rough ashlar at 7:43 AM on April 14, 2010

Sure, why not? They'd have adorable little signs too.

(and because I am their grandmother the signs would have correct spelling and be gramatically correct!)

So if you and the grandkids saw a sign reading “Congress = Slaveowner, Taxpayer = Niggar”, you'd point out the spelling error? Or when you passed one featuring a crude racist caricature of a mixed race person like them you'd, I dunno, critique the artist's technique?

You're coming across like the Indian-born man who joined the BNP because he likes some of their policies.
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 7:58 AM on April 14, 2010 [6 favorites]

I tried to go down to the Common, but when I saw herd of people wearing American flag tablecloths meandering my way, I realized there was no way I could make it and stay sane.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:09 AM on April 14, 2010

Okay, if it's that simple, how about supporting that remark?

The connection between racism and the tea party movement isn't a matter of supposition or accusation. We know from survey evidence that people who support the tea party movement, at least in the surveyed states, are substantially more likely to be white, substantially more likely to harbor racial resentment against latinos and especially blacks, and substantially more likely to harbor intolerant attitudes towards immigrants and homosexuals.

While the accusations of racism are generalizations, and of course people should recognize that there will be individuals in the tea party movement who are not racist, the overwhelming correlation between supporting the tea party movement and being a white with racial resentments is a real, valid, empirically verified generalization. Not made up, not just because people on metafilter "don't care for" them or "don't like their views."

Further, this generalization is over a group that is entirely behavioral. Unlike race, nobody was born a tea party supporter beyond any hope of change. Unlike religion, support for the tea party movement was not inculcated at such a young age that supporters can claim that they have no effective choice in the matter. As a new movement, the only way an adult can be a tea party supporter is to make an affirmative choice as an adult to support the tea party movement. Examining the central tendencies of other attitudes and behaviors of such an entirely behavioral group is utterly nondiscriminatory.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:11 AM on April 14, 2010 [10 favorites]

The teabaggers are just Republican fringe types who can't handle the fact that America rejected the Cranky & Crazy show in order to elect a black guy.

The fact that they've succeeded in selling their self evident lies about concern for the economy to the media is an illustration of just how bad a job the media does of covering non-celebrity news.

In her book Get Opinionated Amanda Marcotte presents the most rational explanation of what the terms "big government" and "small government" really mean when they're tossed around by Republicans. "Big" and "small" refer not to the size of government, or the amount of money spent, but the size of the group getting the benefit.

The teabaggers/Republicans certainly don't hate government spending, or a government that is large in size, or a government that intrudes into the private lives of its citizens. If that were the case they'd have joined us dirty fucking hippies when we protested Bush's wars, his budget busting tax cuts for the uber-wealthy, and his shredding of the Constitution.

Video of Sean Hannity praising the teabaggers as "Tim McVeigh wannabes" and teabaggers cheering.

The teabaggers will, sooner or later, kill a lot of people. What really worries me is that by then they may be so far gone that, unlike in the 1990's when the right wing crazy fringe backed off following McVeigh's terrorist attack, the modern teabaggers will embrace the move to terrorism. We've already seen moves that direction with the teabagger lionizing of Joseph Stack and their continued defense Scott Roeder.

There was a time when people like St. Alia and her husband would have quit with the insane ranting when it started getting people killed. I fear that time may have passed. At least the current teabagger movement shows no signs of ending the sort of rhetoric that gets people killed.
posted by sotonohito at 8:19 AM on April 14, 2010 [5 favorites]

Go hang out on Move On or DU or wherever represents "the left" and their political protest organizing efforts.

Well, that's all well and good, but we're talking about the Tea Party here. I don't hang out in those groups, because I don't think it's very effective politically and only serves to make me more frustrated. In any event, I don't really identify with everything they want to do, either. But we're not talking about that, and I'm certainly not defending anyone.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:33 AM on April 14, 2010

Some of it is the normal name-calling BS of politics. Remember Bush == Hitler? You'd have a different group spewing vitriol with the messages in that vitriol being different - but the choosing of 'harmful' words would be there. Using nigger happens to be the most hateful some can come up with is all.

There is a long history of racism in the US going back to slavery. Calling Bush "Hitler" is polemical and not effective, but it's not a representation of a powerful group trying to maintain its position over a less powerful minority. I have zero sympathy for those who wish to maintain the racist legacy of the US, but I do have some sympathy for those who feel frustrated and do not know how to best direct their anger. The Tea Party is not a good outlet, because you tacitly endorse what's going on there by joining in.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:38 AM on April 14, 2010

Actually, all you need to do is trick one into saying "Reggabaet" and they will be forced to return to the 5th Dimension.

Read that as "Reggaebeat." Imagined Rastafarian musicians from space at a Tea Party rally. Started getting ideas for counterprotest costume. Thanks!
posted by albrecht at 8:40 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Perhaps when "they" can get rid of "their crazies" your chastisement would have meaning verses the hollow ring it is.

Problem is, the Tea Party is all crazy, or at least extreme. There is no moderate wing of that party, and they make no bones about letting people know.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:41 AM on April 14, 2010

sotonohito: Don't forget the warrantless wiretapping under the PATRIOT act. If I recall correctly, the right's reaction was barely a shrug, and at the most it would be explained away as "If you're not doing anything wrong you've got nothing to worry about." It really doesn't take much imagination to guess what the reaction would be if a Democratic congress or president had pushed through the same provisions in the name of national security.
posted by contessa at 8:43 AM on April 14, 2010

The old lady on page 2 holding the I'm Teabagging for Jesus sign is priceless.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 8:47 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Of the five Republican candidates for Indiana's US Senate seat, the one described as a "tea party activist," is, interestingly, the only one who thinks gays should be allowed to serve openly in the military (jump to the second page). Three want to keep DADT as is, and one thinks even DADT went too far.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2010

We know from survey evidence that people who support the tea party movement...

Meet The Tea Party

"Turns out that the 'tea party' movement sweeping the nation is disproportionately composed of individuals who have higher-than-average incomes. It’s also disproportionately composed of men. And disproportionately composed of white people. And disproportionately composed of self-identified conservatives. And disproportionately composed of self-identified Republicans."

Who are the Tea Party activists?

"Activists in the Tea Party movement tend to be male, rural, upscale, and overwhelmingly conservative, according to a new national poll.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey [PDF] released Wednesday also indicates that Tea Party activists would vote overwhelmingly Republican in a two-party race for Congress.

...According to the survey, roughly 11 percent of all Americans say they have actively supported the Tea Party movement, either by donating money, attending a rally, or taking some other active step to support the movement. Of this core group of Tea Party activists, 6 of 10 are male and half live in rural areas.

...The poll indicates that about 24 percent of the public generally favors the Tea Party movement but has not taken any actions such as donating money or attending a rally. Adding in the 11 percent who say they are active, a total of 35 percent could be described as Tea Party supporters. That larger group is also predominantly male, higher-income, and conservative."

Tea Party Demographics: White, Republican, Older Male with Money

"Bloomberg gives a bit more detail in its more current analysis and observes more than 90 percent of Tea Party backers say the U.S. is moving more toward socialism than capitalism, while 70% want more government involvement in job creation. In other words, they don't want the government interfering except in certain designated areas, as they also were found by majorities to want Social Security to remain under government control and didn't see the Veterans Administration as socialism.

...What Bloomberg observes from the poll is this: 'Tea Party supporters are likely to be older, white and male. Forty percent are age 55 and over, compared with 32 percent of all poll respondents; just 22 percent are under the age of 35, 79 percent are white, and 61 percent are men. Many are also Christian fundamentalists, with 44 percent identifying themselves as 'born-again,' compared with 33 percent of all respondents.'"

Video: Keith Olbermann questions Tea Party for lack of racial diversity.
posted by ericb at 9:00 AM on April 14, 2010

Too much tea party racism.

In related news this week: Tea Party NY Gov Candidate's E-Mails Exposed: Racism, Porn, Bestiality.
posted by ericb at 9:03 AM on April 14, 2010

Tea Party supporters aren't racist, they just don't particularly think fondly of black people, or hispanics, or immigrants, and they really hate gay people.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:31 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh hey, looks like they're going to be in DC tomorrow. As amusing as it might be to mock them, I think I'll bring my lunch and stay inside.
posted by JoanArkham at 9:53 AM on April 14, 2010

You'll see "people in leadership" complain about the 'legalize it' or 'free mumbi' or even the black bloc protesters showing up at "their rally".

Perhaps when "they" can get rid of "their crazies" your chastisement would have meaning verses the hollow ring it is.

Sorry, no dice. Someone showing up to an anti-war rally with a "Legalize!" poster is diluting the message. Irritating, but significantly different than showing up to an anti-...whatever they think their message is protest with a blatantly racist sign. Not only is the signholder openly racist, but everyone else standing around him who doesn't immediately say "Shut that racist shit down and get the fuck out, assbag!" is also complicit. The two are not comparable at all unless you somehow think being a pro-legalization enabler is the same as being a pro-white-power enabler.
posted by FatherDagon at 10:20 AM on April 14, 2010 [5 favorites]

At this afternoon's Boston Tea Party event:

"Mark Williams, chairman of the Tea Party Express, the group that organized the event, said, 'Political correctness led to 9/11. Political correctness led to Barack Hussein Obama. We have a full blown case of AIDS and we're the cure.'"

No coded language there. No way.
posted by ericb at 11:00 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

Teabagger. Man, that word's star is bright this day. I have no qualms using that word to describe the people going to these protests, and I'll tell you why. To start with, though, you've got to understand that Teabagger isn't a homophobic slur. At all. It's not like cocksucker or dicklicker. Teabagging is simply the act of dipping one's balls into another person's mouth. It just describes a certain practice, and it knows no sexual orientation (although two women will need some apparatus in order to pull it off).

Now then, my experience with tea being associated with the post-Obama conservative movement began with Rick Santelli's bizzare rant about the "losers." (Note to St. Alia: Rick is calling you a loser in this clip). He talks about having a Chicago tea party and whatnot. He becomes some weird populist hero for a while even though he was basically insulting the very people who rallied to his support. Eventually these tea parties start happening all over the place, and they decide to use actual tea bags as emblems of their movement. I linked to Wonkette there because the New American Tea Party site appears to be no more.

The money quote:

Please bring cameras, especially ones with video, American flags, and tea bags if you can find any to swing around the air.

The tea bagging jokes wrote themselves. Tea bags are, by their very nature, wrinkly dangley things. When you combine that with the obvious pun you've got yourself a juvenile dick joke that was likely to go over the heads of the people who picked the symbol in the first place. That's part of the reason why it was so funny.

It's not just that the tea party picked the word "tea," it's that they decided to use tea bags (things that look like scrotums) as a symbol for their movement, and completely missed the obvious joke that everyone was going to make. If they had decided to make their logo a picture of a guy punching a donkey (because they're so mad at the Democrats) they'd be in a similar situation. Or if they picked a rusty trombone that symbolized the dreams they had to abandon to pay for their neighbor's defaulted mortgage. They picked the dick joke that would eventually be used to mock them all on their own. It wasn't mean ol' liberals like me who forced it on them.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 11:20 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

There was a time when people like St. Alia and her husband would have quit with the insane ranting when it started getting people killed.

you're thinking back to the days when republicans recognized the concept of shame.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 11:26 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

ericb, thanks. Now I know what Tea Party Jesus will say tomorrow.
posted by EarBucket at 11:26 AM on April 14, 2010

So if you and the grandkids saw a sign reading “Congress = Slaveowner, Taxpayer = Niggar”, you'd point out the spelling error? Or when you passed one featuring a crude racist caricature of a mixed race person like them you'd, I dunno, critique the artist's technique?

During the election season, I had plenty of experience getting in the face of ignorant hotheads on "my side" and telling them to shut their pieholes. I have no problem confronting idiots in person, believe me.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 11:51 AM on April 14, 2010

I'm kinda offended at the lazy and prejudicial characterisation of the people who are participating in these protests. Yes, they do have their share of nuts and kooks; but guess what-EVERY PROTEST GROUP DOES. To include your favorite cause.

I want to thank you for your insight into who the Teap Party people are-- people like your husband, run-of-the-mill right-wing Republican activists throwing a temper tantrum because the Democrats tossed them out of power after 30 years of deluding themselves that Republicans were somehow the "natural" ruling party that representing "real America" in this country. Insofar as that attitude and the attitude of Republicans in general is downright crazy, I think it's reasonable to call them out for their kooky temper tantrums right now.

Because most of them were busy trying to make a living and not paying attention to the economic news and not believing those who said the sky was falling.

That, however, is not true. The people who are now "tea partiers" were the same people engaging in a relentless campaign of hate and rage against Democratic candidates like Gore and Kerry who were advocating more fiscally responsible paths than Bush were and were simultaneously too cowardly or morally ignorant to call out the abuse of government power, wiretapping, politicization, and use of torture by the Bush administration.

Tea Partiers are partisan Republicans, and their behavior should be regarded as simply outbursts by partisan Republicans who are just acting like a bunch of sore losers and bankrolled by the same corrupt group of Republican activists that have always been involved in these things.
posted by deanc at 12:09 PM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

During the election season, I had plenty of experience getting in the face of ignorant hotheads on "my side" and telling them to shut their pieholes. I have no problem confronting idiots in person, believe me.

And yet, in all that experience gathering you did, you never stopped to wonder why all the 'ignorant hotheads' (the words you're looking for are 'racists' and 'bigots') ended up on your side of the fence? There's a difference between trying to act the lifeguard and kick out troublemakers, and trying to use a pool skimmer to go tidy up a septic tank.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:11 PM on April 14, 2010

Every group is extremist to SOMEBODY.

Really? Even my wife's knitting circle? Damn, things really are getting bad in this country.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:17 PM on April 14, 2010

mme defarge, buddy
posted by fallacy of the beard at 12:31 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Echoing deanc's comment on a slightly tangential but related note, apparently even the oh-so-authentically-crazy-seeming "birther movement" is just chock-a-block with disgruntled Republican party operatives.

My suspicion: Republicans honestly believe that the grassroots groundswell of opposition to Bush and company was all part of an elaborate, contrived Democratic political strategy, and they honestly believe that in questioning the legitimacy of Obama's presidency through the birther nonsense and making all the hyperbolic comparisons to fascism, etc., they're just giving back a little of what they got when Bush was in office.

The reality that popular rejection of the Bush administration truly was spontaneous and grass roots in its origins, and that the Democrats were initially caught off guard and have consistently remained a few steps behind where the popular political consensus has actually moved never even enters into their considerations. The Republicans actually think they're doing nothing worse than orchestrating the same kind of political theater the Democrats did, oblivious to the fact that the Democrats didn't orchestrate the popular revolt against the Republicans, but only exploited it.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:36 PM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

mme defarge, buddy

Touché.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:37 PM on April 14, 2010

I don't understand why everyone acts like the Teabaggers are a new thing. Right-wing, conspiracy-theorizing tax dodgers are a flu that has infected the body-politic since the founding of the Republic. We're in the middle of a seasonal outbreak, but it will burn itself out like it always does.
posted by empath at 12:44 PM on April 14, 2010

My prediction for 2012: The GOP nominating convention will be held in an open air stadium complete with elaborate set dressing. It stands to reason that they made such hay about the spectacle of the 2008 Democratic convention finale (which was totally awesome), so their big riposte can only be to copy it four years later. Mark my words.
posted by contessa at 12:46 PM on April 14, 2010

Republicans honestly believe that the grassroots groundswell of opposition to Bush and company was all part of an elaborate, contrived Democratic political strategy,

My dad honestly believes it was a communist plot funded by George Soros.
posted by empath at 12:47 PM on April 14, 2010

The GOP nominating convention will be held in an open air stadium complete with elaborate set dressing.

I bet.
posted by empath at 12:50 PM on April 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

During the election season, I had plenty of experience getting in the face of ignorant hotheads on "my side" and telling them to shut their pieholes. I have no problem confronting idiots in person, believe me.

I don't doubt it! I guess someone like yourself might at least change a few minds by attending these rallies and speaking out against the racist element; I just find the idea of aligning oneself, as a non-racist, with a crypto-racist organisation a bit weird, no matter how much one might like the rest of their platform.
posted by a little headband I put around my throat at 12:51 PM on April 14, 2010

I just need to mention somewhere that I desperate hope that Tea Partiers get this whole "no taxation without representation" thing driven into and through Congress because I, as a resident alien in the US who pays taxes but is not allowed to vote, would love to stop paying taxes. So party on, teabaggers!
posted by GuyZero at 12:55 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Not only is the signholder openly racist, but everyone else standing around him who doesn't immediately say "Shut that racist shit down and get the fuck out, assbag!" is also complicit. The two are not comparable at all unless you somehow think being a pro-legalization enabler is the same as being a pro-white-power enabler.

This is it right here. If someone showed up at any of the anti war rallies I went to with a sign that dropped an n-bomb on Condi Rice you can bet your ass that person would have had the sign yanked out of their hands and broken over someone's knee. That person's day would take a very unpleasant turn very quickly.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 1:03 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Here's the thing St. Alia, you were here back during the build up to the budget busting Iraq war and you were on the side of the war.

You were here back when us liberal types were up in arms about the illegal wiretapping and you were on the side of the illegal wiretapping.

You were here back when us liberal types complained about Bush spending the surplus on tax cuts for the rich, and you weren't opposed to that either.

IIRC you were also vocally supportive of Prop 8, think DOMA is fantastic, and oppose homosexuals serving in the military.

I would hope you can see why I'd think that you are not even remotely concerned about the economy, about liberty, about the Constitution, or about big government intruding into people's lives? Why I'd think you were lying to me when you claimed you were? Why I'd think this is just sore loserism filled with people lying about their motives?

I'll be honest, a lot of my animosity towards the teabaggers is due to the perception that they are not only lying to me, but telling such blatant and transparent lies that it seems like a deliberate insult to my intelligence.

I believe you when you say that you aren't personally racist. What I have trouble believing is that you don't understand why others think the movement, as a whole, is filled with racists. I know for a stone cold fact that racism was open and welcome at my local gatherings, I went to one and saw it myself. I'm sure not everyone there was racist, but not one single person told the racist "jokers" to stop, and everyone in earshot laughed and cheered at the "jokes".

So please, enlighten me.
posted by sotonohito at 1:07 PM on April 14, 2010 [11 favorites]

Really? Even my wife's knitting circle? Damn, things really are getting bad in this country.

Eh, bitter feuds in the fiber arts community predate this Tea Party stuff.
posted by asperity at 1:08 PM on April 14, 2010

Tea Party supporters aren't racist, they just don't particularly think fondly of black people, or hispanics, or immigrants, and they really hate gay people.

Yep.

From the University of Washington Institute for the Study of Ethnicity, Race & Sexuality's 2010 Multi-state Survey on Race & Politics.
posted by ericb at 1:18 PM on April 14, 2010

Republicans honestly believe that the grassroots groundswell of opposition to Bush and company was all part of an elaborate, contrived Democratic political strategy.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat." -- Will Rogers
posted by kirkaracha at 1:23 PM on April 14, 2010

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002487-503544.html

Most tea party supporters say their taxes are fair.

WHICH LEADS ME TO QUESTION WHAT EXACTLY THEY ARE PROTESTING. A BLACK PRESIDENT???????????? HMMMMMMMMMMM???????????????????????????????????????????
posted by Damn That Television at 1:23 PM on April 14, 2010

Is it really true that Barack Obama's only characteristic is that he's black?
posted by shakespeherian at 1:26 PM on April 14, 2010

He is also ignorant of the US Constitution. Obviously, as most of the things he does are denounced as unconstitutional. I mean, what possible proof could there be that Obama knows anything about the US Constitution?
posted by GuyZero at 1:29 PM on April 14, 2010

Is it really true that Barack Obama's only characteristic is that he's black?

Well he's also left-handed but I was trying to keep this conversation civil.
posted by Damn That Television at 1:35 PM on April 14, 2010 [3 favorites]

GuyZero Actually, GuyZero, he seems perfectly content to ignore his training WRT the Constitution, and his earlier speeches, points, and positions WRT Constitutional issues. He just directly violated the 5th Amendment by ordering the CIA to assassinate an American citizen. And then there's his ongoing support for putting people in cages, forever, without trials.

Of course, Joe Teabagger thinks that's peachy keen fine and dandy. I honestly have no clue what has them upset. I'd like to know one day.
posted by sotonohito at 1:47 PM on April 14, 2010

Here's the thing St. Alia, you were here back during the build up to the budget busting Iraq war and you were on the side of the war.

Look, St. Alia is a single-issue abortion voter. She has said so here on several occasions. She's going to support any movement that is anti-democrat for as long as the Democrats are pro choice.

Don't bother making any other argument, because it won't matter.
posted by empath at 2:11 PM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]

He just directly violated the 5th Amendment by ordering the CIA to assassinate an American citizen.

Actually, sotonhito, if targeted assassinations were unconstitutional, Gerald Ford wouldn't have had to sign an executive order banning them. Like it or not, under current American law, we are legally at war with Al-Qaeda. Whether he's a citizen or not, if he's legitimately affiliated with Al-Qaeda (and involved in carrying out attacks on the US), he's a fair target under the law as it stands today.

This might stink to high heaven, and I might not agree with it, but it's not unconstitutional.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:13 PM on April 14, 2010

saulgoodman I'm not a lawyer, but I think the 5th Amendment is pretty direct here:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

If ordering the assassination of a citizen isn't depriving him of life without the due process of law then what is? During his campaign Obama, who is a lawyer and a Constitutional scholar, repeatedly said that Bush's mere wiretapping of citizens without due process was a violation of the Constitution. If wiretapping someone without due process is unconstitutional how can killing them without due process be anything but?
posted by sotonohito at 2:29 PM on April 14, 2010

Meant to add: Looking at the 5th Amendment it specifically addresses war, and the only thing it grants is an exception to the requirement for a Grand Jury, and the part about "when in actual service in time of War" seems to mean it only applies to soldiers, not civilians.
posted by sotonohito at 2:31 PM on April 14, 2010

sotonohito, if your reading were correct, the Constitution would have required that the federal government try and convict each individual Confederate soldier in a formation before federal troops could fire on them.

The bit you're reading about military service is about needing a grand jury for serious offenses, not about due process. It says basically that military forces actively deployed can be held to answer for a serious crime without first being indicted by a grand jury.

You can tell, roughly, which parts go together by looking for the semicolons.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:39 PM on April 14, 2010

...the part about "when in actual service in time of War" seems to mean it only applies to soldiers, not civilians.

If the civilian were treasonous and fighting as a soldier for the other side, would you think it still unconstitutional for him to be killed in war?
posted by mdn at 2:40 PM on April 14, 2010

If ordering the assassination of a citizen isn't depriving him of life without the due process of law then what is?

He's wanted dead or alive. This is nothing new in american jurisprudence. If he turns himself in, he'll get a trial like everyone else.
posted by empath at 2:41 PM on April 14, 2010

Followed by a first-class hangin'.
/silverado
posted by kirkaracha at 4:09 PM on April 14, 2010

Getting over racism (casual or not) is done deal when it's in the family.

Not everywhere. I had cousins shunned for marrying "out of our race".

I've always used TeaB*gger, but I don't know how to pronounce it.

I don't think this guy's going to get much traction, the earnest/honest conservatives are starting to identify and cull the losers. RedState got rid of the birthers, you know about LGF, and I only know one honest to dog TeaB*gger, though she gets riled up about the name still.

Most of the folks around here are clinging more bitterly to their gun religion and calling themselves "constitutionalist" or "10th amendmenters" or that old standby 'libertarian'.
posted by lysdexic at 4:14 PM on April 14, 2010

Most tea party supporters say their taxes are fair.

Americans see lower tax bills this year -- "You wouldn't know it by the rhetoric, but many are paying less, even with increases passed by states to balance their budgets."
posted by ericb at 4:15 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

This will back fire.

Dissent is something, that even if you firmly and vehemently disagree, should be respected. These people have a right to stage whatever it is they want to without childish interference, and if you disagree with their cause, it should be noted that childish interference will do nothing more than grow the movement.

The more ridicule the tea party gets, the more traction it seems to gain. That shouldn't be surprising at it seems true of any example of wide spread dissent. The anti-war protests during the last administration worked the same. I'm watching it happen down here in Florida right now. All this talk of racism falls flat when people see Rubio, a minority, on TV carrying the tea party flag and beating our governor like a drum in the polls. All that does is make people tune out the criticism.
posted by rulethirty at 4:29 PM on April 14, 2010

Getting over racism (casual or not) is done deal when it's in the family.

Strom Thurmond had a daughter with his black maid, but that didn't stop him from being the most famous segregationist of the 20th century. Perhaps he just pretended to be a racist because it was good politics?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Polling the Tea Party

Supporters surveyed on Obama, Congress, Economy, Government, Race, Social Issues, and the TP itself.
posted by contessa at 5:52 PM on April 14, 2010

Well, nobody seems willing to purge this element from the group. In fact, they seem to be a feature of the movement.

Political purges! That always goes well. Can I pick which group goes first? They get purged as long as I call them racist, right?
posted by _cave at 6:25 PM on April 14, 2010

Political purges! That always goes well. Can I pick which group goes first? They get purged as long as I call them racist, right?

They're getting shunned, not executed. You have a right not to associate.
posted by mkb at 6:47 PM on April 14, 2010

I didn't say anything about execution, and was being facetious. Sure, you have a right not to associate. Should the Tea Partiers have an ideology test or something to make sure that they aren't admitting the wrong type? Just like other political groups do?

Not a fan of the Tea Party either, but let's be honest: they aren't the only political group out there that is filled with nutty stereotyping reactionaries. Shunning is a pretty gentle and passive sort of disenfranchisement, but I don't think that it has much place in the political process.
posted by _cave at 7:24 PM on April 14, 2010

From the NY Times poll: Do Barack Obama’s policies are moving the country more toward socialism?

I for am are towards socialism.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:35 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Shunning is a pretty gentle and passive sort of disenfranchisement, but I don't think that it has much place in the political process.

No, I think it very much does. And I don't think you know what 'disenfranchisement' means.
posted by empath at 7:38 PM on April 14, 2010

Here are a few of my favorites picked out of the NYT poll results:

18% described themselves as being "upper class" or "upper middle class." 31% have incomes $75,000 per year or more. 78% consider their current financial situation to be "Very Good" or "Fairly Good."

32% are retired.

5% blame Bush for the current economic crisis; 10% blame Obama.

6% blame Bush for the budget deficit; 24% blame Obama.

Interestingly, 65% said they believe Obama's policies treat black and white Americans the same.

Falling into the "this is my surprised face" category:

84% believe the Tea Party ideals reflect most Americans' views. 92% believe Obama is moving the country toward Socialism. 82% think illegal immigration is a "very serious" problem. 80% think it is a bad idea to raise taxes on households with incomes over $250k/year.

89% of tea party respondents were white. 75% were aged 45 or older. And, while the press is describing tea party activists as "educated," 59% have only either a HS Diploma or some college. 23% have education up to a college degree and 14% have post graduate degrees.
posted by contessa at 8:01 PM on April 14, 2010

At what point do you think that, effectively, a person loses access to the political process? Just when their right to vote is revoked, or when they are excluded from participating in a protest or (quasi) political party? I'm not sure that I know a better word than disenfranchisement for what I'm trying to convey. Political marginalization?

And again, it seems a little disingenuous to think that the Tea Party should somehow have a higher standard in enforcing ideological purity than any other group.

Seriously, shunning? No room for a conversation?
posted by _cave at 8:01 PM on April 14, 2010

Polling the Tea Party...

Poll: Tea Party backers wealthier, educated -- "And they're driven by ideology, not economic anxiety, survey shows."
posted by ericb at 8:45 PM on April 14, 2010

The Tea Party's Racist Roots Are Showing
posted by homunculus at 9:30 PM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]

Political marginalization?

Marginalization of fringe ideas is part of how democracy works. You can spout whatever crazy, hateful shit that you want, but no one is obligated to listen to you or associate with you.
posted by empath at 9:36 PM on April 14, 2010

Sorry, your statement is the moral equivalent of saying that all people of race x are shiftless and lazy. Not to mention intellectually lazy.

No it's not. Tea partiers choose their affiliation. And the proof is abundant if you aren't blind.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:25 AM on April 15, 2010

An unsolicited statement from Koch industries (discussed previously here on the blue) on their role in funding the Tea Party movement:

We Don't Fund Tea Parties (Except For The Tea Parties We Fund)
posted by saulgoodman at 7:19 AM on April 15, 2010

IRT yesterday's Boston Common tea party:

Tea parties are SO MUCH FUN!
posted by cereselle at 10:38 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

KTea is on here, but I'll wait for her to make herself known!
posted by mkb at 10:54 AM on April 15, 2010

Thanks for that, cereselle. It cheered me up a bit. Green shoots of actual discourse...?
posted by GrammarMoses at 10:54 AM on April 15, 2010

School Investigates Teacher Who Created Tea Party Crasher Site

I kind of wondered how wise it was for the guy to use his real name, as well as his occupation, his workplace, where he lives...
posted by KokuRyu at 11:37 AM on April 15, 2010

KTea is on here, but I'll wait for her to make herself known!

She already did in this cool AskMe question prior to the event.
posted by amyms at 11:47 AM on April 15, 2010

Photos: The Best Fake Teabagger Signs at the Boston Common Tea Party.
posted by ericb at 11:50 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]

IRT yesterday's Boston Common tea party:Tea parties are SO MUCH FUN!

Facebook page: The REAL Boston Tea Party.

Website and Filckr sets from the event.
posted by ericb at 12:19 PM on April 15, 2010

From the REAL Boston Tea Party website:

"Wow, RedMassGroup and Michelle McPhee were apparently so angry about our small, polite counterprotest that yesterday they actually checked on our permit and then told people to contact inspectional services on us because we’d be serving homemade sandwiches. That’s just hilarious and sad."

posted by ericb at 12:26 PM on April 15, 2010

Marginalization of fringe ideas is part of how democracy works.

I actually think that you have a good point, here. Although ideally I'd like to imagine that democracy works more by searching for consensus. I think where I differ is that I'm confused about whether you distinguish between the marginalization of ideas and the marginalization of people. A reasonable member of the Tea Party (if such a creature exists) would object to racist images by another party member, but to my mind that doesn't translate into completely rejecting that person from party membership as long as they aren't actually doing anything illegal. To me, this is a meaningful distinction.
posted by _cave at 3:55 PM on April 15, 2010

Real fake signs.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:33 PM on April 15, 2010 [3 favorites]

Tea Party counterprotesters at the University of Michigan yesterday. Mmmm waffles!
posted by ardgedee at 11:57 AM on April 16, 2010 [2 favorites]