This is just too weird for words.
August 2, 2001 3:48 AM Subscribe
This is just too weird for words. *stunned*
Oh. My.
posted by nedrichards at 4:24 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by nedrichards at 4:24 AM on August 2, 2001
Yes. Weird. Now, if I can get a hold of those pills, I think I can solve the race problem in America. Maybe.
posted by Rastafari at 5:16 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by Rastafari at 5:16 AM on August 2, 2001
I very much doubt you could solve the race problem by making everyone look the same. as this article demonstrates, they would still feel different.
posted by rabi at 5:44 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by rabi at 5:44 AM on August 2, 2001
they would still feel different
No, rabi, I think it's just him. Don't you remember the Eddie Murphy sketch from SNL! I think many non-whites would love to get away with it, if they can! Besides, unlike this poor guy, everyone here would do this *voluntarily*. So therefore, no question of how they feel!
posted by Rastafari at 6:01 AM on August 2, 2001
No, rabi, I think it's just him. Don't you remember the Eddie Murphy sketch from SNL! I think many non-whites would love to get away with it, if they can! Besides, unlike this poor guy, everyone here would do this *voluntarily*. So therefore, no question of how they feel!
posted by Rastafari at 6:01 AM on August 2, 2001
Why can't I get the starbellied sneeches out of my head?
posted by ColdChef at 6:05 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by ColdChef at 6:05 AM on August 2, 2001
That SNL skit was hilarious. Eddie walking down the street like he had a stick up his ass.
posted by emoeby at 6:41 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by emoeby at 6:41 AM on August 2, 2001
he'd have at least a few hundred thousand, no?
Try a few million!
posted by internal at 6:59 AM on August 2, 2001
Try a few million!
posted by internal at 6:59 AM on August 2, 2001
Ordinarily I would have dismissed this out of hand because it's an Ananova article, but the picture is intriguing.
It's still possible that it's a complete hoax -- the Weekly World News seems to be able to come up with some pretty unique photographs on a regular basis.
posted by briank at 7:04 AM on August 2, 2001
It's still possible that it's a complete hoax -- the Weekly World News seems to be able to come up with some pretty unique photographs on a regular basis.
posted by briank at 7:04 AM on August 2, 2001
''I am a black man and will always be a black man but I don't know who I am. But I have learned a lot about intolerance towards people of another colour.''
Towards people of which color?
posted by jeb at 7:10 AM on August 2, 2001
Towards people of which color?
posted by jeb at 7:10 AM on August 2, 2001
a hoax, eh? Mebbe. It's kind of weird that they don't name the drug. Is The Mirror a reputable newspaper? My guess is "no" being that it has, as one of it's top three news headlines, an article about David Beckham's unfashionable taste in wine. There's no name for the Medical Tribunal, the factory, or any other details but his name and the countries in question. No one else involved is quoted, no comment from the drug company, doctors, nothing. If it's not a hoax, it's shite journalism.
posted by jeb at 7:17 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by jeb at 7:17 AM on August 2, 2001
The gods are playing horrible tricks on this poor man:
"Mr Kahsay was badly injured as he worked at a sawmill in Lidkoping. Blood tests revealed the first stages of liver disease which could have proved fatal."
And then they said, "Just look in here for deep insight into race," and handed him a big ViewMaster with melanin secretly rubbed on the eyepieces.
posted by pracowity at 7:22 AM on August 2, 2001
"Mr Kahsay was badly injured as he worked at a sawmill in Lidkoping. Blood tests revealed the first stages of liver disease which could have proved fatal."
And then they said, "Just look in here for deep insight into race," and handed him a big ViewMaster with melanin secretly rubbed on the eyepieces.
posted by pracowity at 7:22 AM on August 2, 2001
Is this even possible? Sure, your skin cells are constantly renewed, but the production of melanin is genetically encoded. I can maybe believe that the cells containing melanin are renewed, and that a person's "race" could therefore be changed, but then shouldn't the effect go away as soon as he stops taking the drug?
And does anyone else think it's ridiculous that we seem to base 99% of race identity on skin color? He's not black because his skin is a different color, he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA. The fact that he would feel a lack of identity at all is proof of the perniciousness of this sort of racial identification...
posted by tweebiscuit at 7:38 AM on August 2, 2001
And does anyone else think it's ridiculous that we seem to base 99% of race identity on skin color? He's not black because his skin is a different color, he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA. The fact that he would feel a lack of identity at all is proof of the perniciousness of this sort of racial identification...
posted by tweebiscuit at 7:38 AM on August 2, 2001
he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA.
Actually, I know many white people from Africa. They're called Afrikaaners and were involved in some nonsense in South Africa.
posted by haqspan at 7:46 AM on August 2, 2001
Actually, I know many white people from Africa. They're called Afrikaaners and were involved in some nonsense in South Africa.
posted by haqspan at 7:46 AM on August 2, 2001
what was that 80's movie where the white guy took a massive dose of tanning pills to pass for black, so he could get into Harvard on the affirmative action program? damn what is the name of that movie?
Soul Man!!! hey, Amazon says it is out of stock? WTF?
posted by adampsyche at 7:47 AM on August 2, 2001
Soul Man!!! hey, Amazon says it is out of stock? WTF?
posted by adampsyche at 7:47 AM on August 2, 2001
The article mentions that he is from Eritrea, and there is an article (or something) from that area at News Asmarino by a Tekeste Kahsay. And you can email him.
posted by bison at 7:49 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by bison at 7:49 AM on August 2, 2001
Dave Matthews likes to point out that his entire band, himself included, is African-American. Though it should be noted that Afrikaaners are a specific group of white Africans, descendents of a specific set of emigres who colonised South Africa. The title does not apply and should not be applied to anyone white from Africa.
That aside, in any case, I don't see why it is so hard to believe that a medication could interact with the body to produce an advanced case of vitiligo, which in essence, this is. A person I knew in college developed a differently manifested but equally serious case of the skin disorder following treatment for hepatitis, another liver disease. It would be nice if the story had better details, but the basic premise is very believable, and very unfortunate
posted by Dreama at 7:54 AM on August 2, 2001
That aside, in any case, I don't see why it is so hard to believe that a medication could interact with the body to produce an advanced case of vitiligo, which in essence, this is. A person I knew in college developed a differently manifested but equally serious case of the skin disorder following treatment for hepatitis, another liver disease. It would be nice if the story had better details, but the basic premise is very believable, and very unfortunate
posted by Dreama at 7:54 AM on August 2, 2001
Bison, I saw that in the Google too, but I can't read that at all, so I have no idea what it's about. Also, if you search that name unquoted in Google, you get all sorts of hits for people named "X Kahsay" and "Tekeste X", so I think that they could be common names in Eritrea, possibly. I call post not emailing.
PS - tweebiscuit I don't think it's ridiculous to base 99% of race identity on skin color at all. What else should it be based on?
posted by jeb at 7:54 AM on August 2, 2001
PS - tweebiscuit I don't think it's ridiculous to base 99% of race identity on skin color at all. What else should it be based on?
posted by jeb at 7:54 AM on August 2, 2001
He was prescribed a drug which saved his liver but had astonishing side effects.
So assuming that this story is true--this is Ananova, after all, the short bus of journalism--let me get this straight. He was going to die from a fatal liver disease, took a drug which cured him, but then got recompense after a side effect changed his skin color. Charming. There are bald chemotherapy patients probably wondering where their checks are. Didn't this guy sign an Informed Consent document for this mystery drug or what?
posted by Skot at 8:01 AM on August 2, 2001
So assuming that this story is true--this is Ananova, after all, the short bus of journalism--let me get this straight. He was going to die from a fatal liver disease, took a drug which cured him, but then got recompense after a side effect changed his skin color. Charming. There are bald chemotherapy patients probably wondering where their checks are. Didn't this guy sign an Informed Consent document for this mystery drug or what?
posted by Skot at 8:01 AM on August 2, 2001
Er. Why does it surprise anyone that most people base the declaration of someone as "Black" on whether they're Black or not?
posted by Marquis at 8:08 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by Marquis at 8:08 AM on August 2, 2001
what else should it be based on?
Oh, I dunno, maybe people shouldn't bother with it in the first place? After all, race identity and cultural identity are two different things, and frankly race identity is just tiresome.
For one thing: race identity is highly exclusionary, and cultural identity is not (this is not to say it can't be exclusionary, but it's nowhere near as bad).
Race identity gets into genetics, and then everything turns nasty -- what degree of "blackness" qualifies a person to be black? If I have ancestors from four different racial groups, what does that make me? Do I care? Does anyone care? How many gradations of racial category will I need?
posted by aramaic at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2001
Oh, I dunno, maybe people shouldn't bother with it in the first place? After all, race identity and cultural identity are two different things, and frankly race identity is just tiresome.
For one thing: race identity is highly exclusionary, and cultural identity is not (this is not to say it can't be exclusionary, but it's nowhere near as bad).
Race identity gets into genetics, and then everything turns nasty -- what degree of "blackness" qualifies a person to be black? If I have ancestors from four different racial groups, what does that make me? Do I care? Does anyone care? How many gradations of racial category will I need?
posted by aramaic at 8:09 AM on August 2, 2001
Regarding Informed Consent: this case should not have been actionable. Bad things happen to nice people (and vice versa) -- that's the way life goes.
At least the medicine worked; there are lots of dead people that would have done anything for the chance to live, even with a new skin color. It's not like the doctors decided to play an elaborate practical joke...
posted by aramaic at 8:13 AM on August 2, 2001
At least the medicine worked; there are lots of dead people that would have done anything for the chance to live, even with a new skin color. It's not like the doctors decided to play an elaborate practical joke...
posted by aramaic at 8:13 AM on August 2, 2001
I'm wondering why people think that a lot of black people in America would jump all over the chance to take a pill to make them white.
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
posted by rich at 8:13 AM on August 2, 2001
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
posted by rich at 8:13 AM on August 2, 2001
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
betcha michael jackson would've....
(not that he constitutes a significant amount of people)
posted by netsirk at 8:30 AM on August 2, 2001
betcha michael jackson would've....
(not that he constitutes a significant amount of people)
posted by netsirk at 8:30 AM on August 2, 2001
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
betcha michael jackson would've....
(not that he constitutes a significant amount of people)
posted by netsirk at 8:31 AM on August 2, 2001
betcha michael jackson would've....
(not that he constitutes a significant amount of people)
posted by netsirk at 8:31 AM on August 2, 2001
for any doubters, i know someone in real life that looks like him. her entire arms and hands have turned white as has most of her face. she still has some brown spots on her neck and parts of her face, but even her scalp where her hair is parted has turned white.
there is that disease that michael jackson claims to have had that causes something like this to happen. i think maybe they found a real picture and made up a story to go with it.
posted by centrs at 8:40 AM on August 2, 2001
there is that disease that michael jackson claims to have had that causes something like this to happen. i think maybe they found a real picture and made up a story to go with it.
posted by centrs at 8:40 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by haqspan at 7:46 AM PST on August 2
what was that 80's movie where the white guy took a massive dose of tanning pills to pass for black, so he could get into Harvard on the affirmative action program?
heh. my boyfriend thought he could pass for a member of another race if he wanted to get into u of m, since his skin color isn't determined by his ethnicity at all, but rather by the fact that he's an albino (which has the unfortunate effect of making him look Dutch.)
posted by dagnyscott at 8:41 AM on August 2, 2001
what was that 80's movie where the white guy took a massive dose of tanning pills to pass for black, so he could get into Harvard on the affirmative action program?
heh. my boyfriend thought he could pass for a member of another race if he wanted to get into u of m, since his skin color isn't determined by his ethnicity at all, but rather by the fact that he's an albino (which has the unfortunate effect of making him look Dutch.)
posted by dagnyscott at 8:41 AM on August 2, 2001
There's a social idea that "Black" (in reference to skin color) = "African American." Having a lot of melanin in your skin is only a single physical manifestation of ethnic origin -- what about hair, bone structure, or just where your ancestors came from? Saying that a black person can be "turned white" by altering their skin color denies their entire heritage and reduces it to a denigrated physical feature. "Drug causes man to regrow foreskin, becomes Christian!"
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:49 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:49 AM on August 2, 2001
... his skin color isn't determined by his ethnicity at all, but rather by the fact that he's an albino (which has the unfortunate effect of making him look Dutch.)
Hey, I resemble that remark! :P
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:50 AM on August 2, 2001
Hey, I resemble that remark! :P
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:50 AM on August 2, 2001
tweebiscuit - no one can tell where your ancestors came from when they are following you around in a store or pulling you over on a highway.
posted by jeb at 8:51 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by jeb at 8:51 AM on August 2, 2001
jeb -- I agree. Again, it's another consequence of the terrible association we have between skin color and race. *sigh* Sure, it's a distinguishing feature, but I know I'd be insulted if that's what my ethinicity were reduced to. The fact of the matter is that this fellow was described as "turned white," which frankly just makes me want to cry.
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:56 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by tweebiscuit at 8:56 AM on August 2, 2001
there is that disease that michael jackson claims to have had that causes something like this to happen.
That would be vitiligo.
posted by lia at 9:06 AM on August 2, 2001
That would be vitiligo.
posted by lia at 9:06 AM on August 2, 2001
Imagine if an enhanced version of this mysterious drug found its way into the world's water supplies, turning people everywhere from one random color to the next...
posted by Tubes at 9:10 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by Tubes at 9:10 AM on August 2, 2001
Some info on vitiligo. The effects are a lot like those that the guy in the story is suffering from, though I don't think it's normally as extensive as that. I seem to recall that a friend of my mother's suffered from similar effects while undergoing heavy treatment with steriods.
posted by pascal at 9:13 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by pascal at 9:13 AM on August 2, 2001
He's not black because his skin is a different color, he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA. The fact that he would feel a lack of identity at all is proof of the perniciousness of this sort of racial identification...
Perniciousness in Eritrea, as well, where having discolored skin marks one as a leper, according to the article.
Tweebiscuit, you have a point when you say that identity should rest on more than skin color. However, it sounds to me that skin color itself is not the issue; the issue the concept of race.
Racial thinking, perhaps best formulated in W.E.B. DuBois's concept of the "color line," is the pernicious idea that people of different origins and superficial physiologies are somehow immutably different and totally opposed. To say "he's black because he's from Africa" is to suggest that race is geographically, not biologically linked. You hold race out as a real objetive fact, but shift the definition around. Imagine if I say, "he's a leper because he's from Sweden." Nonsense, right?
The fact that there is a "color line" of sorts in two cultures--Eritrea and Sweden--should give one pause. It is not evidence that "race" is real, rather the opposite. It demonstrates that people will seize upon whatever is available to create polarized identities.
posted by rschram at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2001
Perniciousness in Eritrea, as well, where having discolored skin marks one as a leper, according to the article.
Tweebiscuit, you have a point when you say that identity should rest on more than skin color. However, it sounds to me that skin color itself is not the issue; the issue the concept of race.
Racial thinking, perhaps best formulated in W.E.B. DuBois's concept of the "color line," is the pernicious idea that people of different origins and superficial physiologies are somehow immutably different and totally opposed. To say "he's black because he's from Africa" is to suggest that race is geographically, not biologically linked. You hold race out as a real objetive fact, but shift the definition around. Imagine if I say, "he's a leper because he's from Sweden." Nonsense, right?
The fact that there is a "color line" of sorts in two cultures--Eritrea and Sweden--should give one pause. It is not evidence that "race" is real, rather the opposite. It demonstrates that people will seize upon whatever is available to create polarized identities.
posted by rschram at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2001
turning people everywhere one random color to the next...
I would completely support any such action, provided that the range of colors was large enough. I'd like to try being green, or maybe a nice deep midnight blue.
posted by aramaic at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2001
I would completely support any such action, provided that the range of colors was large enough. I'd like to try being green, or maybe a nice deep midnight blue.
posted by aramaic at 9:23 AM on August 2, 2001
A few points:
1) Vitiligo, the disease that Michael Jackson has, does exist, and he does have it. It does leave patches of different colored skin though, which would have made him look very strange without additional cosmetic surgery.
2) This looks just like a black person with vitiligo looks. It's pretty common, I don't understand all the shocked reactions?
3) In White culture, skin color is the basis of what race is. A very dark Dhasa person would most likely be treated the same as a Nigerian, despite the fact that none of their features besides skin and eye color and hair texture would be similar... and that geographically, they're as akin to a West African as a white Spanish person would be. ditto Australian Aborigines... Africa is a huge continent, and people from various parts of it look nothing alike. An Ethiopian looks nothing like a "Bushman" of the Kalahari, who looks nothing like.... Just like an ethnic Korean looks very different from a Japanese person. So yes, skin color is the basis of race for a non-white person living in America or Europe.
sorry if any of this sounded arrogant or something, I just woke up and can't really think clearly... so if it does, just filter that out please :)
posted by kidsplate at 9:24 AM on August 2, 2001
1) Vitiligo, the disease that Michael Jackson has, does exist, and he does have it. It does leave patches of different colored skin though, which would have made him look very strange without additional cosmetic surgery.
2) This looks just like a black person with vitiligo looks. It's pretty common, I don't understand all the shocked reactions?
3) In White culture, skin color is the basis of what race is. A very dark Dhasa person would most likely be treated the same as a Nigerian, despite the fact that none of their features besides skin and eye color and hair texture would be similar... and that geographically, they're as akin to a West African as a white Spanish person would be. ditto Australian Aborigines... Africa is a huge continent, and people from various parts of it look nothing alike. An Ethiopian looks nothing like a "Bushman" of the Kalahari, who looks nothing like.... Just like an ethnic Korean looks very different from a Japanese person. So yes, skin color is the basis of race for a non-white person living in America or Europe.
sorry if any of this sounded arrogant or something, I just woke up and can't really think clearly... so if it does, just filter that out please :)
posted by kidsplate at 9:24 AM on August 2, 2001
kidsplate - I was always very skeptical about MJ's claim to have vitiligo, but you seem to be convinced that he does. So what makes you sure? Didn't he at the same time (the Oprah interview) claim never to have had plastic surgery?
posted by pascal at 9:32 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by pascal at 9:32 AM on August 2, 2001
Ahh. Ananova. The grocery store check-out line newspaper of the web.
posted by borgle at 9:44 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by borgle at 9:44 AM on August 2, 2001
He was going to die from a fatal liver disease, took a drug which cured him, but then got recompense after a side effect changed his skin color. Charming. There are bald chemotherapy patients probably wondering where their checks are. Didn't this guy sign an Informed Consent document for this mystery drug or what?
When you take chemotherapy, it is common knowledge that your hair will fall out. Is it even possible to go into chemotherapy and not lose your hair? This man would have died without the pills, but remember that the side effect wasn't expected. It was probably one in a million that it happened, but the doctor should have calculated that one in a million and told him the risks. THAT is why he sued.
posted by starduck at 9:56 AM on August 2, 2001
When you take chemotherapy, it is common knowledge that your hair will fall out. Is it even possible to go into chemotherapy and not lose your hair? This man would have died without the pills, but remember that the side effect wasn't expected. It was probably one in a million that it happened, but the doctor should have calculated that one in a million and told him the risks. THAT is why he sued.
posted by starduck at 9:56 AM on August 2, 2001
Reportedly, he's still "hung like a black man". That ought to be some kind of consolation...
posted by ceibo at 10:07 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by ceibo at 10:07 AM on August 2, 2001
. It was probably one in a million that it happened, but the doctor should have calculated that one in a million and told him the risks
That's insane. If your doctor had to explain to you (and all his other patients) the million different things that could happen to you on any given medication, you'd die right there in his office while he droned on. Informed consent specifies (a) things that will very likely happen to you, (b) things that are less likely to happen to you, and (c) other bizarre things that we don't know about yet that may happen to you. The fact that it saved his life and now he's giving us the boo-hoos because he underwent painless dermatologic changes doesn't buy my sympathy.
And speaking as someone who works in cancer research, yes, it is not only possible but quite commonplace to go into chemo and not lose your hair. There are no guarantees, of course, but it happens all the time. Everyone responds differently to treatment--some people sail through the same regimens that render other people bald, bleeding from their hands and feet, and puking their guts out.
posted by Skot at 10:09 AM on August 2, 2001
That's insane. If your doctor had to explain to you (and all his other patients) the million different things that could happen to you on any given medication, you'd die right there in his office while he droned on. Informed consent specifies (a) things that will very likely happen to you, (b) things that are less likely to happen to you, and (c) other bizarre things that we don't know about yet that may happen to you. The fact that it saved his life and now he's giving us the boo-hoos because he underwent painless dermatologic changes doesn't buy my sympathy.
And speaking as someone who works in cancer research, yes, it is not only possible but quite commonplace to go into chemo and not lose your hair. There are no guarantees, of course, but it happens all the time. Everyone responds differently to treatment--some people sail through the same regimens that render other people bald, bleeding from their hands and feet, and puking their guts out.
posted by Skot at 10:09 AM on August 2, 2001
i always thought michael jackson was faking it because he was so very fortunate to have faded perfectly with no spots. i wasn't aware that he had had any kind of cosmetic work done or that there was a procedure for that.
posted by centrs at 10:12 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by centrs at 10:12 AM on August 2, 2001
99% of what's on ananova is not only too weird for words, but too weird to be bothered paying attention to...
posted by DiplomaticImmunity at 10:47 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by DiplomaticImmunity at 10:47 AM on August 2, 2001
centrs -- there is no evidence that Michael Jackson "faded evenly" with "no spots" but there is plenty of evidence that he consistently wears clothing that covers most of his body and covers his face with a combination of hair, hats, sunglasses, the occasional surgical mask and layers of heavy pancake makeup. I don't think that anyone who isn't an ex-wife, an LAPD photographer or MJ's doctor could definitively state anything about the status of MJ's vitiligo.
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the racist, baiting idiots on MeFi, for future reference.
posted by Dreama at 11:13 AM on August 2, 2001
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the racist, baiting idiots on MeFi, for future reference.
posted by Dreama at 11:13 AM on August 2, 2001
Black No More, by George Schuyler, is a satirical novel from the Harlem Renaissance about the social and political effects in America of a medical treatment that turns black people white. Definitely worth a look in the context of this thread.
posted by Rebis at 11:16 AM on August 2, 2001
posted by Rebis at 11:16 AM on August 2, 2001
re: ananova
i know for fact that at least the stories in ananova's hong kong section are accurate - because they were reported in the newspapers here as well.
i'm not saying ananova is good journalism, but to dismiss everything there summarily (because sometimes they do post some really interesting things) is narrow minded.
so you don't believe everything you read - that's cool, i respect that.
i'm just getting sick of hearing about how crappy ananova is.
posted by bwg at 11:32 AM on August 2, 2001
i know for fact that at least the stories in ananova's hong kong section are accurate - because they were reported in the newspapers here as well.
i'm not saying ananova is good journalism, but to dismiss everything there summarily (because sometimes they do post some really interesting things) is narrow minded.
so you don't believe everything you read - that's cool, i respect that.
i'm just getting sick of hearing about how crappy ananova is.
posted by bwg at 11:32 AM on August 2, 2001
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the racist, baiting idiots on MeFi, for future reference.
I don't see how this is helpful, interesting, or even accurate. Perhaps you would like to expound upon your thought a bit?
posted by rushmc at 11:36 AM on August 2, 2001
I don't see how this is helpful, interesting, or even accurate. Perhaps you would like to expound upon your thought a bit?
posted by rushmc at 11:36 AM on August 2, 2001
I don't think that anyone who isn't an ex-wife, an LAPD photographer or MJ's doctor could definitively state anything about the status of MJ's vitiligo.
I bet Macaulay Caulkin could.
(Yep, I'm going to Hell for that one.)
posted by Dirjy at 11:53 AM on August 2, 2001
I bet Macaulay Caulkin could.
(Yep, I'm going to Hell for that one.)
posted by Dirjy at 11:53 AM on August 2, 2001
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the racist, baiting idiots on MeFi, for future reference.
I don't see how this is helpful, interesting, or even accurate. Perhaps you would like to expound upon your thought a bit?
posted by rushmc at 11:58 AM on August 2, 2001
I don't see how this is helpful, interesting, or even accurate. Perhaps you would like to expound upon your thought a bit?
posted by rushmc at 11:58 AM on August 2, 2001
Ananova is owned by France Telecom/Orange I believe and used to be the online portal of the Press Association. I don't think that they're that bad really :-]
Also, with that background I'm not sure if they cvould get away with it.
posted by nedrichards at 12:21 PM on August 2, 2001
Also, with that background I'm not sure if they cvould get away with it.
posted by nedrichards at 12:21 PM on August 2, 2001
Sorry to be so late to the party. The most amazing thing about this for me (I've never seen anything like it, despite the existence of vitiligo) is that Mr. Kahsay looks like he could be my (white) grandfather with baaad liverspots. (no pun intended)
The images on the vitiligo site aren't nearly as dramatic. I think this picture in particular exposes the "skin color is race" issue for what it is -- a big misdirection.
I think it's true that the color of people's skin influences their perceptions of themselves and others. (This is why people with dark skin from Africa get pulled over more frequently than people with pale skin from Africa).
I think this photo is an especially stunning example of what complete hogwash that attitude is. The fact that people shun him (it doesn't specify Sweden or Africa) shows how deep it goes in observers, the fact that his self confidence is effected by this shows how deep it goes in the observed.
I also feel for the guy. In a world where much of your identity is created out of how you appear, being the counter-example just ain't gonna be fun.
posted by daver at 12:37 PM on August 2, 2001
The images on the vitiligo site aren't nearly as dramatic. I think this picture in particular exposes the "skin color is race" issue for what it is -- a big misdirection.
I think it's true that the color of people's skin influences their perceptions of themselves and others. (This is why people with dark skin from Africa get pulled over more frequently than people with pale skin from Africa).
I think this photo is an especially stunning example of what complete hogwash that attitude is. The fact that people shun him (it doesn't specify Sweden or Africa) shows how deep it goes in observers, the fact that his self confidence is effected by this shows how deep it goes in the observed.
I also feel for the guy. In a world where much of your identity is created out of how you appear, being the counter-example just ain't gonna be fun.
posted by daver at 12:37 PM on August 2, 2001
I don't see how this is helpful, interesting, or even accurate. Perhaps you would like to expound upon your thought a bit?
No, I wouldn't, because those to whom I was referring don't deserve any more time or attention paid to their inane and offensive comments. And if you can't figure out what I'm talking about by reading through this thread for yourself, then maybe you need to check your perceptions, too.
posted by Dreama at 12:40 PM on August 2, 2001
No, I wouldn't, because those to whom I was referring don't deserve any more time or attention paid to their inane and offensive comments. And if you can't figure out what I'm talking about by reading through this thread for yourself, then maybe you need to check your perceptions, too.
posted by Dreama at 12:40 PM on August 2, 2001
I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt, basically for the same reasons that Dreama mentioned. What reason would he have to change his skin color in the first place, given he was one of the first pop stars to have universal appeal, across color lines?
posted by kidsplate at 12:42 PM on August 2, 2001
posted by kidsplate at 12:42 PM on August 2, 2001
hmmm. i have just found michael jackson particularly fascinating because of his eccentricity. it has nothing to do with his color. because of his numerous plastic surgeries, strange costumes and habits, i find it highly likely that he would do something like "bleach" his skin. (if that's even possible). then, to blame it on a disease which has affected someone i know kind of irritates me. heck, it's possible he has vitiligo, he just doesn't look like it to me.
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the gun jumping, hypersensitive freaks on MeFi, for future reference.
posted by centrs at 2:02 PM on August 2, 2001
That said, it's nice to be able to place names with the gun jumping, hypersensitive freaks on MeFi, for future reference.
posted by centrs at 2:02 PM on August 2, 2001
posted by centrs at 2:05 PM on August 2, 2001
(sarcasm) so very fortunate to have faded perfectly with no spots (end sarcasm) sheesh.
posted by centrs at 2:07 PM on August 2, 2001
posted by centrs at 2:07 PM on August 2, 2001
I've seen Michael Jackson up close. His skin, the parts not covered by a surgical mask, just seemed lighter-- still brown, just less brown. Whereas the people i have met who have vitiligo have noticably pink patches of skin. Such as this man in the picture.
The melanin in their skin just didn't lighten, it washed out. Okay, now that I think about it, I knew someone who had vitiligo and his skin was a lighter brown, but it was splotchy and not even.
Anyway, that's what I saw. It may just be a combination of vitiligo and bleaching so he didn't look so strange. Er, if that's possible.
The story about *why* I was so close to Michael Jackson will remain a mystery.
posted by perplexed at 2:33 PM on August 2, 2001
The melanin in their skin just didn't lighten, it washed out. Okay, now that I think about it, I knew someone who had vitiligo and his skin was a lighter brown, but it was splotchy and not even.
Anyway, that's what I saw. It may just be a combination of vitiligo and bleaching so he didn't look so strange. Er, if that's possible.
The story about *why* I was so close to Michael Jackson will remain a mystery.
posted by perplexed at 2:33 PM on August 2, 2001
bwg: no its not being narrowminded, it's being logical. If you see crap appear over and over again from the same source, it's logical to assume falsehood rather than truth. The enquirer, the star, and other supermarket tabloids also occasionally print the odd true story (or even the true odd story), but the fact that they print MOSTLY crap means they can't be trusted and shouldn't be bothered with. If something's true and appears somewhere else, cite it from somewhere else.
posted by DiplomaticImmunity at 4:11 PM on August 2, 2001
posted by DiplomaticImmunity at 4:11 PM on August 2, 2001
tsk. i can't beleive how shocked everybody is. when i was a kid, black like me was required reading in high school...
posted by quonsar at 6:03 PM on August 2, 2001
posted by quonsar at 6:03 PM on August 2, 2001
I'm wondering why people think that a lot of black people in America would jump all over the chance to take a pill to make them white.
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
I read that in Japan, one of the most frequently requested operations is a removal of a section of the large intestine in the belief that it makes the skin lighter - haven't the faintest idea if it does or not though.
If, instead of putting a multi color drug in the water, we put in something that made us all go blind - we'd still find something that made us different - accents being the obvious thing.
posted by bregdan at 6:39 PM on August 2, 2001
I highly doubt that any significant amount of people would even consider it.
I read that in Japan, one of the most frequently requested operations is a removal of a section of the large intestine in the belief that it makes the skin lighter - haven't the faintest idea if it does or not though.
If, instead of putting a multi color drug in the water, we put in something that made us all go blind - we'd still find something that made us different - accents being the obvious thing.
posted by bregdan at 6:39 PM on August 2, 2001
Because nobody asked, here's sudama's handy reference to the racist remarks in this thread:
Do these pills affect his ability to dance too?
or ability to jump?
Reportedly, he's still "hung like a black man". That ought to be some kind of consolation...
hypersensitive freaks
Addendum: remarks either ignorant or ill-conceived:
He's not black because his skin is a different color, he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA.
Why does it surprise anyone that most people base the declaration of someone as "Black" on whether they're Black or not?
i wasn't aware that he had had any kind of cosmetic work done
posted by sudama at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2001
Do these pills affect his ability to dance too?
or ability to jump?
Reportedly, he's still "hung like a black man". That ought to be some kind of consolation...
hypersensitive freaks
Addendum: remarks either ignorant or ill-conceived:
He's not black because his skin is a different color, he's black because HE'S FROM AFRICA.
Why does it surprise anyone that most people base the declaration of someone as "Black" on whether they're Black or not?
i wasn't aware that he had had any kind of cosmetic work done
posted by sudama at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2001
hypersensitive freaks
Actually, I had asked. And I totally disagree with this one, as well as the ones in your Addendum. The others seem more tired than racist.
posted by rushmc at 8:55 PM on August 2, 2001
Actually, I had asked. And I totally disagree with this one, as well as the ones in your Addendum. The others seem more tired than racist.
posted by rushmc at 8:55 PM on August 2, 2001
Me, off on a tangent again...
Just like an ethnic Korean looks very different from a Japanese person.
Uhh, well, no. There are some Koreans who look very Japanese, and vice versa. The same applies with China. There are also a lot of Korean people who look unmistakably Korean.
That's all pretty much what you'd expect, though, given the history and location of the Korean peninsula.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:11 PM on August 2, 2001
Just like an ethnic Korean looks very different from a Japanese person.
Uhh, well, no. There are some Koreans who look very Japanese, and vice versa. The same applies with China. There are also a lot of Korean people who look unmistakably Korean.
That's all pretty much what you'd expect, though, given the history and location of the Korean peninsula.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:11 PM on August 2, 2001
Very briefly: marginalizing perceptions of racism as "hypersensitive" serves to maintain the status quo.
A movie about a racist stereotype, no matter how subversive, does not eliminate that stereotype's tendency to further racist thinking. No I have not seen it, is it good?
posted by sudama at 9:22 AM on August 3, 2001
A movie about a racist stereotype, no matter how subversive, does not eliminate that stereotype's tendency to further racist thinking. No I have not seen it, is it good?
posted by sudama at 9:22 AM on August 3, 2001
marginalizing perceptions of racism as "hypersensitive" serves to maintain the status quo.
Wrong. Not all perceptions of racism are accurate. Calling attention to the questionable or inaccurate perceptions challenges the current climate of fuzzy, imprecise thinking, thus disrupting the status quo.
posted by rushmc at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2001
Wrong. Not all perceptions of racism are accurate. Calling attention to the questionable or inaccurate perceptions challenges the current climate of fuzzy, imprecise thinking, thus disrupting the status quo.
posted by rushmc at 10:30 AM on August 3, 2001
i have no idea what color or sex dreama is. i meant "hypersensitive" in the context that this person made a judgement of me as a "racist idiot" based on one sentence that was totally misinterpreted.
posted by centrs at 11:04 AM on August 3, 2001
posted by centrs at 11:04 AM on August 3, 2001
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The damage awarded is pretty low; had this happened in the US, he'd have at least a few hundred thousand, no?
posted by lia at 4:15 AM on August 2, 2001