How you like them apples?
September 2, 2010 11:05 AM Subscribe
"DateHarvardSQ is a unique online dating platform matching discerning women with Harvard University educated men determined to make a difference in the world as foremost doctors, lawyers, businessmen, academics and professionals. DateHarvardSQ is owned and operated by a dedicated team of Harvard University graduates, whose goal is to help their community of peers find meaningful relationships across the globe." Ladies, be sure to check out to Preview the Harvard Men waiting for your Smile.
Eugenics for the 21st century baby!
posted by norabarnacl3 at 11:12 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by norabarnacl3 at 11:12 AM on September 2, 2010
*Vom*
posted by schmod at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by schmod at 11:13 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
People like this definitely need to stick together. Makes 'em easier to avoid.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
From Malte's preview profile:
What you like to spend money on:
Good times
I’m most drawn to charities that:
enable people to help themselves.
Wow, that's...yeah.
Marc-Kwesi is pretty damn good-looking, though.
posted by quadrilaterals at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010
What you like to spend money on:
Good times
I’m most drawn to charities that:
enable people to help themselves.
Wow, that's...yeah.
Marc-Kwesi is pretty damn good-looking, though.
posted by quadrilaterals at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010
haha, I think I might enjoy this thread.. they have dating sites for everything now, why not this?
posted by ReeMonster at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by ReeMonster at 11:15 AM on September 2, 2010
Compare and contrast:
Because women are guaranteed to receive five matches per week, they pay a small subscription fee to join DateHarvardSQ.Under "Harvard Men Learn More":
DateHarvardSQ is free of charge, and strictly exclusive to men who are Harvard University educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, academics and professionalsposted by djgh at 11:16 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Why I remain a stalwart, unrepentant face(meat)book holdout.
female, class of '83
P.S. Does the "sq" stand for "squire," or am I still reading too much into things?
posted by emhutchinson at 11:16 AM on September 2, 2010
female, class of '83
P.S. Does the "sq" stand for "squire," or am I still reading too much into things?
posted by emhutchinson at 11:16 AM on September 2, 2010
This actually reminds me of the Bluff the Listener segment about an "exclusive" Facebook like site but only for super rich people.
posted by kmz at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by kmz at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
"DateHarvardSQ provides a seamless platform enabling discerning women and poised Harvard men to explore meaningful relationships. Our matching mechanism formulates which profiles are sent to our members based on their background information, and our communications system allows for members to contact each other with speed and comfort."Let's see. Seamless platform. Discerning women. Poised Harvard men. Matching mechanism. Communications system. Really?
Stop using the buzzword generator and hire a copywriter.
posted by ericb at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
This will be replacing the previous Harvard dating service, known as the "Hampton Jitney" which only operated on the weekends and during the summer.
posted by geoff. at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by geoff. at 11:17 AM on September 2, 2010 [5 favorites]
Harvard Alumni Magazine has a personals section that I always found to be the most depressing thing ever. Particularly bad were the widows looking for exact replacements.
posted by fermezporte at 11:18 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by fermezporte at 11:18 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
emhutchison, I think the SQ stands for "Business School." I don't understand it either, but I didn't go to Harvard.
posted by grouse at 11:18 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by grouse at 11:18 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
P.S. Does the "sq" stand for "squire," or am I still reading too much into things?
It stands for Harvard Square.
posted by ericb at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
It stands for Harvard Square.
"Our name, DateHarvardSQ, is inspired by the dating scene in Harvard Square (SQ for short), where many Harvard students and graduates find lasting romantic relationships."Gotta wonder how many hook-ups happen in The Pit.
posted by ericb at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Out of curiosity I signed up with a fake (female) name and email, and got this: "Thank you for registering. We are excited to welcome you to DateHarvardSQ, and we will let you know as soon as we begin accepting women subscribers. We appreciate your interest, and cannot wait to provide you with exceptional matches very soon!" So it's not actually operational yet.
posted by Gator at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Gator at 11:19 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
...matching discerning women with Harvard University educated men determined to make a difference in the world shitloads of money...
posted by rocket88 at 11:20 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by rocket88 at 11:20 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's a good thing Chad was on the fencing team because he's about to have the hounds of merciless snark and derision released upon him in a baying pack.
posted by The Straightener at 11:21 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by The Straightener at 11:21 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, aren't these guys a bit young to be HBS graduates? Did they go to business school from undergrad? I thought the 3-4 year real big person experience thing was still around. Going from undergrad to business school without any concept of life outside of academia seems like an exercise in futility.
posted by geoff. at 11:21 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by geoff. at 11:21 AM on September 2, 2010
Date Harvard Men Without Streetwalking Down Mass Ave.
posted by ericb at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Pardon my ignorance. I just clicked on the "about" and learned the genus/genius of "Sq".
Still I do read way too much into things.
Party on fellow Harvardians (you know who you are). Can't you guys ever just pick up girls on the bus like, you know, real people?
posted by emhutchinson at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Still I do read way too much into things.
Party on fellow Harvardians (you know who you are). Can't you guys ever just pick up girls on the bus like, you know, real people?
posted by emhutchinson at 11:22 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
From ericb's link: The site features Harvard Business School grads.
So ladies, you too can find your own George W. Bush!
posted by lukemeister at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
So ladies, you too can find your own George W. Bush!
posted by lukemeister at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Can't you guys ever just pick up girls on the bus like, you know, real people?
I believe Harvard men prefer to be carted about in gilded litters.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I believe Harvard men prefer to be carted about in gilded litters.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 11:24 AM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I really hope that this will eventually be revealed to be one of OKCupid's social experiments...
posted by schmod at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by schmod at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Harvard: Raising the bar of douchebaggery since 1636.
posted by Aizkolari at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Aizkolari at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
How do they expect to compete with that other dating site out of Harvard?
posted by parudox at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by parudox at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010
I suspect they named it dateHarvardsq, so as to avoid trademark issues with Harvard University which is very serious about enforcing its trademarks: Harvard Trademark Program.
"Look, our website isn't named for the College or the University, but for the geographical location of Harvard Square. See -- there's HarvardSquare.com, etc."
posted by ericb at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010
"Look, our website isn't named for the College or the University, but for the geographical location of Harvard Square. See -- there's HarvardSquare.com, etc."
posted by ericb at 11:27 AM on September 2, 2010
Harvard: Raising the bar of douchebaggery since 1636.
Some Harvard HBS and HLS Graduates: Raising the bar of douchebaggery since 1636.
posted by ericb at 11:28 AM on September 2, 2010
Some Harvard HBS and HLS Graduates: Raising the bar of douchebaggery since 1636.
posted by ericb at 11:28 AM on September 2, 2010
I don't gave time to jeer at Harvard graduates just now. Does anyone know when the next jeering post is scheduled? I'll clear it on my calendar.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by Joe Beese at 11:30 AM on September 2, 2010
they have dating sites for everything now, why not this
There are some aspects of it that are weird, beyond the usual LOLNICHEDATINGSITE. For example on the one hand it is very old-fashioned (hetero-only, and the Harvard grads are exclusively men), while on the other hand it goes completely against the basic online and offline tendency for men to pursue women (female profiles are not public, and women are expected to make the initial contact). I would be interested to see if that approach actually works, or if it's just a bad idea that was based on the cliche that all women want to date rich doctors and whatnot.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
There are some aspects of it that are weird, beyond the usual LOLNICHEDATINGSITE. For example on the one hand it is very old-fashioned (hetero-only, and the Harvard grads are exclusively men), while on the other hand it goes completely against the basic online and offline tendency for men to pursue women (female profiles are not public, and women are expected to make the initial contact). I would be interested to see if that approach actually works, or if it's just a bad idea that was based on the cliche that all women want to date rich doctors and whatnot.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
How can these guys find the time to be part of such an online dating community when they have to be at the gym in 26 minutes?
posted by dhens at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by dhens at 11:31 AM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Eugenics for the 21st century baby!
Brings to mind the Nobel Sperm Bank.
posted by ericb at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2010
Brings to mind the Nobel Sperm Bank.
posted by ericb at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2010
I don't understand why everyone keeps starting these snob-appeal dating sites when no one's gone for the much bigger market — a high-school-diploma, night school, and state-college dating site, no overachieving Ivy Leaguers or snooty liberal arts college types allowed. To paraphrase the late Senator Hruska, there are a lot of mediocre single people out there — aren't we entitled to a little algorithmic matchmaking, too?
posted by enn at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by enn at 11:32 AM on September 2, 2010
C'mon, ericb, back in the day it was just a little ol' divinity school. Shucks, I thought we all knew that.
(And no divine dating services either, so there.)
posted by emhutchinson at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2010
(And no divine dating services either, so there.)
posted by emhutchinson at 11:33 AM on September 2, 2010
Their expansion plans: "We will soon provide additional services specifically targeted to Harvard University educated women."
posted by ericb at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by ericb at 11:36 AM on September 2, 2010
I liked it better rolled my eyes at it already when it was called The Right Stuff.
posted by Madamina at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by Madamina at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010
Guys on this service are those who really relish in 'dropping the H bomb.'
posted by ericb at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh Harvard. Must you always take elitism to another level?
posted by GrooveJedi at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by GrooveJedi at 11:42 AM on September 2, 2010
I thought the 3-4 year real big person experience thing was still around. Going from undergrad to business school without any concept of life outside of academia seems like an exercise in futility.
For better or for worse, I know a lot of folks who went right from undergrad into BS (pun intended), some of them right into HBS.
This is how I see it: not all Harvard folks are douchebags, though many are. Only the douchebags would actually use this website. Therefore it's simply matching doucebags with other douchebags and thereby passively weeding out the douchebags from the broader dating pool, making it easier for the rest of us. I just *hate* it when I'm out at a bar, buying a seemingly nice woman drinks, only to have her say after a couple rounds, "oh, you didn't go to Harvard? Sorry, I'm only interested in Harvard men." Happens all the time.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
For better or for worse, I know a lot of folks who went right from undergrad into BS (pun intended), some of them right into HBS.
This is how I see it: not all Harvard folks are douchebags, though many are. Only the douchebags would actually use this website. Therefore it's simply matching doucebags with other douchebags and thereby passively weeding out the douchebags from the broader dating pool, making it easier for the rest of us. I just *hate* it when I'm out at a bar, buying a seemingly nice woman drinks, only to have her say after a couple rounds, "oh, you didn't go to Harvard? Sorry, I'm only interested in Harvard men." Happens all the time.
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Satire. Gotta be satire.
posted by MarshallPoe at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by MarshallPoe at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
Isn't that (at least in part) okcupid, enn?
posted by Alterscape at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by Alterscape at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
Huh, who knew Harvard was a men's only university now again?
posted by rtha at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by rtha at 11:46 AM on September 2, 2010
Oh Harvard. Must you always take elitism to another level?
Harvard University is not at all involved in this embarrassing endeavor.
posted by ericb at 11:47 AM on September 2, 2010
Harvard University is not at all involved in this embarrassing endeavor.
posted by ericb at 11:47 AM on September 2, 2010
...hetero-only...
"We will soon provide services dedicated to serving Harvard Men interested in dating discerning men, and Harvard Women interested in dating discerning men and women. We understand this can be frustrating in the interim, and we truly appreciate your patience."posted by ericb at 11:49 AM on September 2, 2010
I grew up outside Boston and attended school nearby, so Harvard has been in my ken quite awhile. And my uncle, one of the world's snootiest and coldest men, went to Harvard. My mom went to Radcliffe, and was almost as upset by its later absorption by Harvard as she was by the way her school and its brilliant students were treated as Harvard accessories until then. My dad could not stand the Harvard vibe and instead chose to be in the first graduating class of a then-unknown school, Brandeis.
I'm as big a fan of Harvard Square and Cambridge as anyone, and I have dear friends who attended Harvard. But this self-congratulatory (and sexist) attitude has been part of Harvard's atmosphere for as long as I can remember. That's why I went to school elsewhere myself, and why this post still puts my teeth on edge, many years later, and from thousands of miles away.
posted by bearwife at 11:50 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm as big a fan of Harvard Square and Cambridge as anyone, and I have dear friends who attended Harvard. But this self-congratulatory (and sexist) attitude has been part of Harvard's atmosphere for as long as I can remember. That's why I went to school elsewhere myself, and why this post still puts my teeth on edge, many years later, and from thousands of miles away.
posted by bearwife at 11:50 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
This reminds me of that stupid Ivy League dating service which is advertised in my alum magazine. Ivy League somehow suddenly includes Amherst and the like, and the Seven Sisters schools.
posted by anniecat at 11:51 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by anniecat at 11:51 AM on September 2, 2010
I'm supposed to be picking up girls on the bus?
posted by adamdschneider at 11:52 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by adamdschneider at 11:52 AM on September 2, 2010
...hetero-only...
Well, yeah, if you want something else you have to be into the whole Yale thing.
[NOT YALE-IST]
posted by djgh at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, yeah, if you want something else you have to be into the whole Yale thing.
[NOT YALE-IST]
posted by djgh at 11:53 AM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Harvard Alumni Magazine has a personals section that I always found to be the most depressing thing ever.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I suppose, most of those ads are ghost-written by the same firm. They're still depressing, but they're just not as funny anymore.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:55 AM on September 2, 2010
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I suppose, most of those ads are ghost-written by the same firm. They're still depressing, but they're just not as funny anymore.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:55 AM on September 2, 2010
The real question is: which feminine hygiene products do these Harvard Men recommend? Can they compete with a date with Brad?
posted by sonika at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2010
posted by sonika at 11:57 AM on September 2, 2010
"make a difference as foremost doctors..." Wow - that's not felicitous English.
When you're trading on your intellectual skills, it might be a good idea to have a copyeditor look over your deathless prose.
posted by Miko at 11:58 AM on September 2, 2010
When you're trading on your intellectual skills, it might be a good idea to have a copyeditor look over your deathless prose.
posted by Miko at 11:58 AM on September 2, 2010
Stanford grads' wanna-be elitism is child's play compared to this stuff.
posted by blucevalo at 12:00 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by blucevalo at 12:00 PM on September 2, 2010
"make a difference as foremost doctors..." Wow - that's not felicitous English.
When you're trading on your intellectual skills, it might be a good idea to have a copyeditor look over your deathless prose.
Don't kids today, even Ivy grads, consider good writing to be a very 20th c. hangup?
posted by aught at 12:25 PM on September 2, 2010
When you're trading on your intellectual skills, it might be a good idea to have a copyeditor look over your deathless prose.
Don't kids today, even Ivy grads, consider good writing to be a very 20th c. hangup?
posted by aught at 12:25 PM on September 2, 2010
It's not the size of their brains their selling, its their status in the elite of society. Which clearly doesn't require much intelligence
posted by delmoi at 12:26 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 12:26 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
Fortunately, or unfortunately, I suppose, most of those ads are ghost-written by the same firm. They're still depressing, but they're just not as funny anymore.
Hmm. I was wondering why the ads consitently used such oddly stiff language. Does anyone really describe themselves as "stunningly X" or "strikingly Y"? Ghostwriting eliminates the personal voice of the searchers, which apparently is not important to the readers of these ads. How bizarre.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:28 PM on September 2, 2010
Hmm. I was wondering why the ads consitently used such oddly stiff language. Does anyone really describe themselves as "stunningly X" or "strikingly Y"? Ghostwriting eliminates the personal voice of the searchers, which apparently is not important to the readers of these ads. How bizarre.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:28 PM on September 2, 2010
I dated Harvard Square for a while in the 90s. Totally punk.
posted by xod at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by xod at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2010
Oh, and then I read the article and it says this :"A classic Harvard MBA type is sort of focused and there's not a lot of human element to it."
Well, ick. Trophy spouses for everyone!
posted by oneirodynia at 12:31 PM on September 2, 2010
Well, ick. Trophy spouses for everyone!
posted by oneirodynia at 12:31 PM on September 2, 2010
Alterscape: okcupid was started by Harvard students. It's the one good thing I know of to come out of that school.1 Seriously, though, okcupid manages to be different things to different people pretty well. It shows me lots of people who seem interesting to me but if I start asking it for random profiles I want to run away.
1. I went to the trade school down the street, so I'm basically required by law to make fun of them.
posted by madcaptenor at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
1. I went to the trade school down the street, so I'm basically required by law to make fun of them.
posted by madcaptenor at 12:40 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Guys on this service are those who really relish in 'dropping the H bomb.'
Well, it is nothing like DateSchoolNearBoston where everyone clamors to see who can bring up their status in the most subtle way possible.
posted by geoff. at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Well, it is nothing like DateSchoolNearBoston where everyone clamors to see who can bring up their status in the most subtle way possible.
posted by geoff. at 12:42 PM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
Joe Beese: I don't gave [sic] time to jeer at Harvard graduates just now. Does anyone know when the next jeering post is scheduled? I'll clear it on my calendar.
Don't worry about it, they're like city buses - miss one, the next one'll be along in just a few minutes.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:43 PM on September 2, 2010
Don't worry about it, they're like city buses - miss one, the next one'll be along in just a few minutes.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:43 PM on September 2, 2010
Excerpt from a sample profile:
"I like to dissect girls. Did you know that I'm utterly insane?"
posted by Eideteker at 12:59 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I like to dissect girls. Did you know that I'm utterly insane?"
posted by Eideteker at 12:59 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
I sell fake Rolexes out of a duffle bag in the Bowery that I bought with someone else's money. Does that make me an entrepreneur based out of New York City with an interest in private equity?
posted by vorpal bunny at 1:15 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by vorpal bunny at 1:15 PM on September 2, 2010 [2 favorites]
sorry, I probably woke up on the grumpy side of the bed this morning.
posted by oonh at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by oonh at 1:27 PM on September 2, 2010
Hah-vahd? Don't make me go all Thurston Howell the Third on your ass.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:40 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:40 PM on September 2, 2010
madcaptenor: Fair distinction. I actually hadn't looked into it far enough to realize it was started by Harvard students, even though I did have an account there. That's actually kind of nifty. Open-Harvard vs. Closed-Harvard?
posted by Alterscape at 2:20 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by Alterscape at 2:20 PM on September 2, 2010
And this is why Tufts has a cannon pointed at these guys. Pew pew pew.
posted by lydhre at 2:24 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lydhre at 2:24 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Our name, DateHarvardSQ, is inspired by the dating scene in Harvard Square (SQ for short), where many Harvard students and graduates find lasting romantic relationships.
That is without a doubt the most outrageously stupid thing I have seen in the past 24 hours.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:37 PM on September 2, 2010
That is without a doubt the most outrageously stupid thing I have seen in the past 24 hours.
- The dating "scene" in Harvard Square is mostly loser teenage runaways begging for change and/or skateboarding. With particular emphasis on loser. Students have much, much better places to hang.
- So why in the fuck didn't you just call yourselves DateHarvardSquare? Or DateHarvard² ? Or DateHarvard [ ] (that's supposed to be a square)?
- CamelCase? ThatIsSoFuckingStupidIHaveNoSpacesToExpressMyOutrage.
- Why would I want to date a square? Either figuratively or literally? DateADork? DateAParallelogram? Both are FuckingStupidRhombus.
- What about all the other places Harvard folk like to find lasting romantic relationships? DateHarvardLibrary? DateHarvardWorldWideWeb? DateAshmolean?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:37 PM on September 2, 2010
I thought one of the chief purposes of university was to open your mind.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:25 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:25 PM on September 2, 2010
Mod note: few comments removed thanks to early threadshitting and GRAR response to same, carry on. people who are not threadshitters, please feel free to repost your comments without calling threadshitters names, thanks
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:25 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:25 PM on September 2, 2010
Harvard University is not at all involved in this embarrassing endeavor.
Well who churned out the people who created this... thing?
posted by Behemoth at 3:34 PM on September 2, 2010
Well who churned out the people who created this... thing?
posted by Behemoth at 3:34 PM on September 2, 2010
I thought one of the chief purposes of university was to open your mind.
In which century and on which continent were you raised? Universities are businesses run, like most other institutions, by defenders of the status-quo for the purpose of defending the status-quo. This is apparent even to my friends who have graduated from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. Let's not be so naive as to pretend that what these parents are paying for (and 98+% of the time...it's parents paying) is to introduce their spawn to basic critical thinking and self-education. They're paying so that their heirs might assume their position as the owners and governors of the world. John Jay got it right.
posted by inoculatedcities at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2010
In which century and on which continent were you raised? Universities are businesses run, like most other institutions, by defenders of the status-quo for the purpose of defending the status-quo. This is apparent even to my friends who have graduated from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. Let's not be so naive as to pretend that what these parents are paying for (and 98+% of the time...it's parents paying) is to introduce their spawn to basic critical thinking and self-education. They're paying so that their heirs might assume their position as the owners and governors of the world. John Jay got it right.
posted by inoculatedcities at 3:59 PM on September 2, 2010
98+% of the time...it's parents paying
I'm in favor of class war as much as the next internet armchair pundit, but Harvard is actually fairly progressive in terms of who it accepts and how much they expect them and their parents to pay.
I'm in favor of class war as much as the next internet armchair pundit, but Harvard is actually fairly progressive in terms of who it accepts and how much they expect them and their parents to pay.
-Over half of all undergraduates receive need-based Harvard Scholarship aid, totaling over $145 million.posted by jessamyn at 4:05 PM on September 2, 2010 [9 favorites]
- One-fifth of families qualify for the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, where parents with total incomes less than $60,000 are expected to pay nothing.
- Parents with total incomes between $60,000 and $180,000, and typical assets, are now asked to pay an average of up to 10 percent of their income.
- Foreign students have the same access to financial aid funding as U.S. citizens, including the Initiative outlined above.
- Two-thirds of students work during the academic year.
- Typical Package for Freshman Scholarship Holders 2009-2010 Total Budget $53,000
- Parents' Contribution $11,000 (20%)
- Student Assets & Summer Savings $1,250 ( 3%)
- Harvard, Federal & Outside Scholarships $39,200 (74%)
- Job Offer $1,550 ( 3%)
Thanks for calling me an "internet armchair pundit" on the basis of one comment you didn't like, administrator of Metafilter. For some silly reason I am surprised.
Pointing to the fact that perhaps what is the most elite private university on earth allocates an enormous percentage of its budget to helping its selected students pay for the fees the private institution itself sets does not in any way change the relationship of these institutions to the society they are borne of, exist in, and perpetuate. Claiming that most Harvard students receive financial aid, have outside scholarships, work during the school-year, etc. doesn't convincingly make the case that such institutions are beacons of egalitarianism and consummate meritocracies where the log-cabin-to-white-house dream lives on. Let's not be so naive as to believe our own mythology.
posted by inoculatedcities at 4:24 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Pointing to the fact that perhaps what is the most elite private university on earth allocates an enormous percentage of its budget to helping its selected students pay for the fees the private institution itself sets does not in any way change the relationship of these institutions to the society they are borne of, exist in, and perpetuate. Claiming that most Harvard students receive financial aid, have outside scholarships, work during the school-year, etc. doesn't convincingly make the case that such institutions are beacons of egalitarianism and consummate meritocracies where the log-cabin-to-white-house dream lives on. Let's not be so naive as to believe our own mythology.
posted by inoculatedcities at 4:24 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
My point is that I'm not arguing with your essential claims, just thought Harvard wasn't the best example of your larger point. Feel free to take it up with me in email if you want to, comrade, I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.
posted by jessamyn at 4:27 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by jessamyn at 4:27 PM on September 2, 2010
Let's not be so naive as to believe our own mythology.
While it's true that a non-zero percentage of the student population comprises the blue-blooded, silver-spooned legacy-admissions stereotypes, Harvard is a fairly terrible example of exclusionary elitism in American academia.
Pointing to the fact that perhaps what is the most elite private university on earth allocates an enormous percentage of its budget to helping its selected students pay for the fees the private institution itself sets does not in any way change the relationship of these institutions to the society they are borne of, exist in, and perpetuate.
I fail to see how Harvard footing the bill for some poor, disadvantaged kid's education doesn't "in any way" change things. Seems to me like it would change things a whole shit-ton for the individual being handed the golden ticket. In fact, the greater the disparities where Harvard "is borne of, exists in, and perpetuates", the greater the affect it has on that individual.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:26 PM on September 2, 2010
While it's true that a non-zero percentage of the student population comprises the blue-blooded, silver-spooned legacy-admissions stereotypes, Harvard is a fairly terrible example of exclusionary elitism in American academia.
Pointing to the fact that perhaps what is the most elite private university on earth allocates an enormous percentage of its budget to helping its selected students pay for the fees the private institution itself sets does not in any way change the relationship of these institutions to the society they are borne of, exist in, and perpetuate.
I fail to see how Harvard footing the bill for some poor, disadvantaged kid's education doesn't "in any way" change things. Seems to me like it would change things a whole shit-ton for the individual being handed the golden ticket. In fact, the greater the disparities where Harvard "is borne of, exists in, and perpetuates", the greater the affect it has on that individual.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:26 PM on September 2, 2010
As jessamyn points out, Harvard has been progressive in providing aid to a majority of students, particularly with its "Zero to 10 Percent Standard" Financial Aid Program.
BTW -- Over the past few years there has been an ongoing discussion at Harvard about potentially adopting a "tuition-free model" for all students: Why Can't Harvard Be Free?
posted by ericb at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2010
BTW -- Over the past few years there has been an ongoing discussion at Harvard about potentially adopting a "tuition-free model" for all students: Why Can't Harvard Be Free?
posted by ericb at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2010
Let's not be so naive as to pretend that what these parents are paying for (and 98+% of the time...it's parents paying)
I think part of Jessamyn's point is that you've got your stats wrong.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 5:36 PM on September 2, 2010
I think part of Jessamyn's point is that you've got your stats wrong.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 5:36 PM on September 2, 2010
August 2010: Harvard Financial Aid Helps 70% of Students.
Continue your generalizations and stereotypes. Such, as always, comes across as a bigoted and prejudiced view based on classicism. I'm tired of such happening here on MeFi.
posted by ericb at 5:43 PM on September 2, 2010
"... many [of the] students [who] get accepted into Harvard every year ... are qualified due to plain old academic talent. It's a good thing, too, because most of these students could not afford ... the Harvard tuition. With combined tuition, room and board, and miscellaneous fees costing $53,950-$56,750 for 2010-11 school year, Harvard financial aid is a must for students who want to get an education at a university known for breeding success.But, go on and rail about Harvard as a bastion protecting the elite, the upper class.
Fortunately, the average Harvard financial aid package is close to $41,000.00. In addition, about 70% of Harvard students receive some form of aid, with nearly 60% receiving need–based scholarships. This means that for those students who cannot afford the Harvard price tag, the cost of attending the university is not more than that of a low-cost state college.
In fact, thanks to the March 2004 Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, students in households earning less than $60,000 per year pay nothing toward room and board. This goes for both International and U.S. citizens."
Continue your generalizations and stereotypes. Such, as always, comes across as a bigoted and prejudiced view based on classicism. I'm tired of such happening here on MeFi.
posted by ericb at 5:43 PM on September 2, 2010
Finally, douchebags and golddiggers can find one another!
posted by jefficator at 6:14 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by jefficator at 6:14 PM on September 2, 2010
Continue your generalizations and stereotypes. Such, as always, comes across as a bigoted and prejudiced view based on classicism. I'm tired of such happening here on MeFi.
Look, I know many people who went to Harvard who are genuinely great people, this is not a dig on them, but the idea that Harvard is a meritocracy sent to preserve the ideals of the Enlightenment is a bit of a joke. This classic Gladwell article points out the obvious: the Ivy League (and, ugh "New Ivy") cares just as much as finding "Ivy League" types as it does with turning your average smart kid into some deep intellectual. This is why there's an essay and reference section and everything isn't simply determined on test scores.
Besides, 70% receive some sort of financial aid? Full room and board starts at $60k and below, and I'm sure if they were giving a 100% aid package to 70% of the student population. Where does aid cut off at? $150k I think I heard once? I don't think it would be throwing around numbers to say that 30% of the population of Harvard composes somewhere of the top 5% of earners in the United States.
The Ivy League schools aren't the problem in themselves, it is the fact that they've managed to suck the entire first tier of school into world. Look at all the perfectly good regional schools (Washington University, Northwestern, NYU) that now charge like Ivy League and require the same ridiculous admission requirements, and definitely don't offer such generous aid packages as Harvard. Not long ago if you were middle class or working class you could get into these schools without making the entire family bear the burden and then some, but no more.
This might not be a solvable problem, as I hear the grandes écoles and other top flight European universities are basically the same. It is my understanding that some Indian and Chinese top engineering schools are a lot more meritocratic, but I have a feeling that's due to their newness than to anything else.
posted by geoff. at 6:26 PM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Look, I know many people who went to Harvard who are genuinely great people, this is not a dig on them, but the idea that Harvard is a meritocracy sent to preserve the ideals of the Enlightenment is a bit of a joke. This classic Gladwell article points out the obvious: the Ivy League (and, ugh "New Ivy") cares just as much as finding "Ivy League" types as it does with turning your average smart kid into some deep intellectual. This is why there's an essay and reference section and everything isn't simply determined on test scores.
Besides, 70% receive some sort of financial aid? Full room and board starts at $60k and below, and I'm sure if they were giving a 100% aid package to 70% of the student population. Where does aid cut off at? $150k I think I heard once? I don't think it would be throwing around numbers to say that 30% of the population of Harvard composes somewhere of the top 5% of earners in the United States.
The Ivy League schools aren't the problem in themselves, it is the fact that they've managed to suck the entire first tier of school into world. Look at all the perfectly good regional schools (Washington University, Northwestern, NYU) that now charge like Ivy League and require the same ridiculous admission requirements, and definitely don't offer such generous aid packages as Harvard. Not long ago if you were middle class or working class you could get into these schools without making the entire family bear the burden and then some, but no more.
This might not be a solvable problem, as I hear the grandes écoles and other top flight European universities are basically the same. It is my understanding that some Indian and Chinese top engineering schools are a lot more meritocratic, but I have a feeling that's due to their newness than to anything else.
posted by geoff. at 6:26 PM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm not above dropping the H-bomb on occasion, like with the girlfriend's father, but at least I'm not "poised." Those Young Republicans were not at all interesting, anyone with half a mind will beat a trail to the abutting MIT.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:47 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:47 PM on September 2, 2010
From Jessamyn's link:
Over half of all undergraduates receive need-based Harvard Scholarship aid, totaling over $145 million.
...
Parents with total incomes between $60,000 and $180,000, and typical assets, are now asked to pay an average of up to 10 percent of their income.
They're being coy about the numbers, but this implies a bit under half of Harvard student's families earn at least $180K+ annually. <5% of the US population falls into that camp. It's not unreasonable to point out that there's a culture of privilege in that environment.
posted by phooky at 8:49 PM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
Over half of all undergraduates receive need-based Harvard Scholarship aid, totaling over $145 million.
...
Parents with total incomes between $60,000 and $180,000, and typical assets, are now asked to pay an average of up to 10 percent of their income.
They're being coy about the numbers, but this implies a bit under half of Harvard student's families earn at least $180K+ annually. <5% of the US population falls into that camp. It's not unreasonable to point out that there's a culture of privilege in that environment.
posted by phooky at 8:49 PM on September 2, 2010 [3 favorites]
This classic Gladwell article points out the obvious: the Ivy League (and, ugh "New Ivy") cares just as much as finding "Ivy League" types as it does with turning your average smart kid into some deep intellectual. This is why there's an essay and reference section and everything isn't simply determined on test scores.
Gladwell is specifically talking about places like Harvard College not Harvard University. It is easy to conflate the two. Most class ire is directed actually at the former not the latter.
To get into Harvard Law, for example, you need to have high LSAT scores. It is difficult to argue that people who went to Harvard Medical school or Harvard Law didn't earn their way in. In fact, there is a mini-divide at Harvard University where the Law and Med and HBS people - many of whom went to non-Harvard colleges - sort of regard the College students with a mix of awe, fear and scorn.
I bring all this up because the DateHarvardSQ site is open to men of Harvard University. But most of the ire and generalizations here pertain exclusively to Harvard College.
posted by vacapinta at 2:55 AM on September 3, 2010
Gladwell is specifically talking about places like Harvard College not Harvard University. It is easy to conflate the two. Most class ire is directed actually at the former not the latter.
To get into Harvard Law, for example, you need to have high LSAT scores. It is difficult to argue that people who went to Harvard Medical school or Harvard Law didn't earn their way in. In fact, there is a mini-divide at Harvard University where the Law and Med and HBS people - many of whom went to non-Harvard colleges - sort of regard the College students with a mix of awe, fear and scorn.
I bring all this up because the DateHarvardSQ site is open to men of Harvard University. But most of the ire and generalizations here pertain exclusively to Harvard College.
posted by vacapinta at 2:55 AM on September 3, 2010
Parents' Contribution $11,000 (20%)
Student Assets & Summer Savings $1,250 ( 3%)
Harvard, Federal & Outside Scholarships $39,200 (74%)
Job Offer $1,550 ( 3%)
My education, at a Russell Group institution, cost me a total of £336 in fees. Hooray for the socialist British way!
There was a British version of this, Ivory Towers, which on inception only took Russell Group universities plus Ivy League. Joining it seemed to say to me 'I am a snob'.
posted by mippy at 4:38 AM on September 3, 2010
Student Assets & Summer Savings $1,250 ( 3%)
Harvard, Federal & Outside Scholarships $39,200 (74%)
Job Offer $1,550 ( 3%)
My education, at a Russell Group institution, cost me a total of £336 in fees. Hooray for the socialist British way!
There was a British version of this, Ivory Towers, which on inception only took Russell Group universities plus Ivy League. Joining it seemed to say to me 'I am a snob'.
posted by mippy at 4:38 AM on September 3, 2010
Phooky how dare you! You aren't obeying the rules of the blue at all. Don't you realize that Harvard is basically a charity for thoughtful poor people, Jay-Z is the same as Shakespeare, Harry Potter is literature, etc.?
I'm so tired of the prejudice here against the extremely rich and successful! They always need more defenders!
posted by inoculatedcities at 6:36 AM on September 3, 2010
I'm so tired of the prejudice here against the extremely rich and successful! They always need more defenders!
posted by inoculatedcities at 6:36 AM on September 3, 2010
They're being coy about the numbers, but this implies a bit under half of Harvard student's families earn at least $180K+ annually. <5>
How does that compare to other Universities?
posted by vacapinta at 6:51 AM on September 3, 2010
How does that compare to other Universities?
posted by vacapinta at 6:51 AM on September 3, 2010
The sad thing is that I heard about this site first not through MeFi, but through a friend's Gmail status. She was upset they aren't accepting women's profiles yet. She's a Stanford EE and HLS grad. So... it's not all straight-up gold-diggers.
posted by maryr at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2010
posted by maryr at 8:58 AM on September 3, 2010
She's a Stanford EE and HLS grad. So... it's not all straight-up gold-diggers...
...it's also other people from the same extremely tiny universe! Great!
But let's keep on pretending that such relations have nothing whatsoever to do with socioeconomic class and nearly everything to do with personal, and especially intellectual, worth and achievement. This way we can continue to believe the lie that we'll all be multi-millionaires in a few years since we're all so devastatingly handsome and, not to mention, have the best brand-name degrees money can buy!
posted by inoculatedcities at 2:14 PM on September 11, 2010
...it's also other people from the same extremely tiny universe! Great!
But let's keep on pretending that such relations have nothing whatsoever to do with socioeconomic class and nearly everything to do with personal, and especially intellectual, worth and achievement. This way we can continue to believe the lie that we'll all be multi-millionaires in a few years since we're all so devastatingly handsome and, not to mention, have the best brand-name degrees money can buy!
posted by inoculatedcities at 2:14 PM on September 11, 2010
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posted by kmz at 11:10 AM on September 2, 2010 [7 favorites]