Programming cats
September 3, 2010 10:17 AM Subscribe
"Have you ever wondered how many cats you would have if you started with just one female and left it alone with males for 5 years?"
via Forrst
Assuming an infinite supply of Fancy Feast and a very forgiving Homeowner's Association.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:23 AM on September 3, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:23 AM on September 3, 2010 [11 favorites]
Why bother with statistics when you have perl?
posted by boo_radley at 10:24 AM on September 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 10:24 AM on September 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
Savannah cats enjoy playing in the water too. As a bonus, they don't look like hairless freaks. Wikipedia notes that "Presenting a water bowl to a Savannah may also prove a challenge, as some will promptly begin to bat all the water out of the bowl until it is empty, using their front paws." Proving that even Savannah cats are jerks.
posted by Nelson at 10:24 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 10:24 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I didn't expect the answer to actually be "tens of thousands of inbred cats."
posted by 2bucksplus at 10:25 AM on September 3, 2010
posted by 2bucksplus at 10:25 AM on September 3, 2010
I don't think the cats will ever get airborne on that treadmill, though.
posted by Mister_A at 10:27 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 10:27 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's a billboard near my house announcing free cat adoption. When we adopted our second cat a few months ago, the woman doing the paperwork thanked us for our slight amelioration of what is apparently a crisis situation.
Please spay or neuter your pet.
posted by Joe Beese at 10:29 AM on September 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Please spay or neuter your pet.
posted by Joe Beese at 10:29 AM on September 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
ETOOMANYCATS.
posted by GuyZero at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Why bother with statistics when you have perl?
Why bother with perl when you have... cats?
posted by thejoshu at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
Why bother with perl when you have... cats?
posted by thejoshu at 10:30 AM on September 3, 2010 [7 favorites]
Another problem with the script - it assumes survival of all the kittens. Particularly young mother cats may not take good care of her kittens. (A very young cat at my sister's barn lost her entire litter, even when her own mother [who had also recently given birth] started caring for them. Both mother and teen-mother were spayed following this incident.)
posted by maryr at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
A: Pussy Galore
posted by LordSludge at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2010 [14 favorites]
posted by LordSludge at 10:34 AM on September 3, 2010 [14 favorites]
To be fair to the original writer of the factoid that prompted the script, I think the 700,000 figure might be closer approximated by counting the numbers of heads on the kittens, rather than on just kitten bodies. By F5, you're going to have hydrakittens.
posted by adipocere at 10:39 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by adipocere at 10:39 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
But, if you train the toms to pull out early...
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:40 AM on September 3, 2010
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:40 AM on September 3, 2010
god damn it, this is math shit. I thought this would be about fucking.
posted by shmegegge at 10:40 AM on September 3, 2010 [11 favorites]
posted by shmegegge at 10:40 AM on September 3, 2010 [11 favorites]
So if all these kittens were Savannah cats ... they would bat all of our lakes and rivers out of existence and we would all die of thirst?
A chilling scenario.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:42 AM on September 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
A chilling scenario.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:42 AM on September 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
This is basically Narayana's Cows. I should point out that I only really know about the numerical sequence from this piece of music -I'm not sure how well know it is otherwise.
posted by ob at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2010
posted by ob at 10:46 AM on September 3, 2010
The script ... calculated an average of 10400.693 cats.
The .693 is a Manx.
posted by Faze at 10:47 AM on September 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
The .693 is a Manx.
posted by Faze at 10:47 AM on September 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
"god damn it, this is math shit. I thought this would be about fucking."
I could swear some boy said that to me on a date sometime long ago, but of course I could be wrong.
On the topic of cats, this book says it all, for me anyway:Millions of Cats
posted by emhutchinson at 10:53 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I could swear some boy said that to me on a date sometime long ago, but of course I could be wrong.
On the topic of cats, this book says it all, for me anyway:Millions of Cats
posted by emhutchinson at 10:53 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Have you ever wondered how many cats you would have if you started with just one female and left it alone with males for 5 years?"
Actually, yes I have. For a long time.
Did you know that 1 female cat not spayed will produce in 5 years, through her offspring and their offspring and their offspring etc. etc. 700,000!
700,000 sounds about right. I'd be more interested in the source for that claim that their own (half-assed) number crunching.
My thirst has not been quenched. :|
posted by mrgrimm at 10:53 AM on September 3, 2010
Actually, yes I have. For a long time.
Did you know that 1 female cat not spayed will produce in 5 years, through her offspring and their offspring and their offspring etc. etc. 700,000!
700,000 sounds about right. I'd be more interested in the source for that claim that their own (half-assed) number crunching.
My thirst has not been quenched. :|
posted by mrgrimm at 10:53 AM on September 3, 2010
The .693 is a Manx.
That's a lot of tail.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:54 AM on September 3, 2010
That's a lot of tail.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 10:54 AM on September 3, 2010
That's a lot of tail.
You haven't seen my cat Fifi. She is at least 35% tail.
posted by Mister_A at 10:55 AM on September 3, 2010
You haven't seen my cat Fifi. She is at least 35% tail.
posted by Mister_A at 10:55 AM on September 3, 2010
They only ended up with one cat on Red Dwarf, after 3,000,000 years.
posted by w0mbat at 11:08 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by w0mbat at 11:08 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
OK, now what about humans taking fertility drugs? Plug optimal octomom into that equation.
And assuming she's also a crazy cat lady, how many cats is that per crazy optimal octomom cat lady?
posted by pracowity at 11:09 AM on September 3, 2010
And assuming she's also a crazy cat lady, how many cats is that per crazy optimal octomom cat lady?
posted by pracowity at 11:09 AM on September 3, 2010
What? One cat? Was ALF involved?
Yeah I went there. I went ALF on this thread.
posted by Mister_A at 11:11 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yeah I went there. I went ALF on this thread.
posted by Mister_A at 11:11 AM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yo, Kate. Where do you keep your casserole dishes?
posted by mrgrimm at 11:48 AM on September 3, 2010
posted by mrgrimm at 11:48 AM on September 3, 2010
...how many cats you would have, etc....
This coding exercise completely misses a big part of the point of the "spay your cat" message - it's not just the quantity of cats, because, really, there'll be a lot of cats but not some foolish astronomically large number, and this is largely because the quality of most of these feral cats' lives will be miserable, the majority of kittens will not make breeding age, and the lifespan of the cats that survive more than a year will still be very short, particularly compared to that of your average spayed/neutered housecat. The guy's model would have to start accounting for abandoned litters, dogs, cars, flea infestation so bad it kills, and deadly respiratory disease, even to start to model harsh reality.
Yeah I went there. I went ALF on this thread.
Every so often I am reminded of how happy I am I never saw a single episode of this show.
posted by aught at 11:49 AM on September 3, 2010
This coding exercise completely misses a big part of the point of the "spay your cat" message - it's not just the quantity of cats, because, really, there'll be a lot of cats but not some foolish astronomically large number, and this is largely because the quality of most of these feral cats' lives will be miserable, the majority of kittens will not make breeding age, and the lifespan of the cats that survive more than a year will still be very short, particularly compared to that of your average spayed/neutered housecat. The guy's model would have to start accounting for abandoned litters, dogs, cars, flea infestation so bad it kills, and deadly respiratory disease, even to start to model harsh reality.
Yeah I went there. I went ALF on this thread.
Every so often I am reminded of how happy I am I never saw a single episode of this show.
posted by aught at 11:49 AM on September 3, 2010
Cats, the renewable fuel for the 21st century.
The new green.
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:01 PM on September 3, 2010
The new green.
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:01 PM on September 3, 2010
This is terrible. My calculations clearly concluded that the number of cats would be seventeen catjillion by the fourth year. His amateurish mistake is simple to identify. He did not take into account the Feline Destructiveness Potential (FDP). In line with his calculations, I also presumed that all the cats live to breeding age and that there was an infinite supply of food for the cats. But in contrast with his work, I took into account the FDP of the collection of cats. And as most students of thermodynamics and cat owners intuitively understand, FDP increases exponentially as the distance between cats decrease, and the total number of cats increase. After a mere two years of breeding the collection of cats would have an unimaginable destructiveness. In my own calculation the cats were enclosed in thirty feet of solid diamond, but within only two short years the FDP of the population was too great. Diamond was not my first choice, but as I soon discovered it did not matter what materials were used. The collection of cats inevitably burst forth into the greater world every time. With the container breached, the infinite cat food exposed to the outside world, and the world cat population at 82 million, the growth rapidly increased until stabilizing at seventeen catjillion. A quantity which is, not coincidentally, the total number of cats that can fit within the universe at a given moment. As we can all tell, seventeen catjillion is a great deal more than a mere ten thousand and change, but I suppose he could have implicitly presumed the cats were contained in a vessel infinitely large.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:35 PM on September 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:35 PM on September 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
boo_radley: "Why bother with statistics when you have perl?"
And why bother with perl when you have classic math?
posted by pwnguin at 1:20 PM on September 3, 2010
And why bother with perl when you have classic math?
posted by pwnguin at 1:20 PM on September 3, 2010
A link to "Damn lies and cat statistics" seems fitting.
posted by Long Way To Go at 2:00 PM on September 3, 2010
posted by Long Way To Go at 2:00 PM on September 3, 2010
Why bother with statistics when you have perl?
This "perl" you speak of, it's easier to use than SAS?
posted by Panjandrum at 2:02 PM on September 3, 2010
This "perl" you speak of, it's easier to use than SAS?
posted by Panjandrum at 2:02 PM on September 3, 2010
This really sucks, I was expecting, y'know, actual cats.
posted by Joe Chip at 3:07 PM on September 3, 2010
posted by Joe Chip at 3:07 PM on September 3, 2010
The problem with SAS is that they want to charge you $16,000 for SAS/FELINE. Sure, PROC CATMATH is fully customizable, but why go through all that trouble if you can just 'import catsplosion' in Python?
posted by Jugwine at 4:04 PM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Jugwine at 4:04 PM on September 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
At what point do we skin them and feed the carcasses to the rats across the street, again?
posted by jtron at 4:18 PM on September 3, 2010
posted by jtron at 4:18 PM on September 3, 2010
At what point do we skin them and feed the carcasses to the rats across the street, again?
When the republicans are in office again.
posted by TwelveTwo at 4:46 PM on September 3, 2010
I am obligated to say that the results would be... catastrophic.
posted by Menthol at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2010
posted by Menthol at 9:19 PM on September 3, 2010
A recent cautionary tale... relayed to me by my father who is a weirdo and has most of my seven younger siblings (age range 12-22ish) still living under his roof.
Sister #1 gave Sister #3 a female kitten as a surprise birthday present a few years ago, without consulting with the parental units. Dad said "OK, you can keep her, but you're in charge of all of her care. Step one: get her spayed."
Sister #3, never being the most responsible sister (this award goes to Sister #2), neglected to get kitty spayed. A few months later kitty escaped from the house and spent a week "lost" out in the neighborhood. Eventually, kitty returned, and it became clear that she was preggers. She ended up giving birth to a few kittens shortly thereafter.
Dad was mad, and said "Grr, I'm angry! As soon as the new kittens are old enough, you need to get them all fixed, including the mother, and find homes for all of the new kittens".
Sister #3 gave away one or two of the kittens, and smoked a few bowls and forgot to make a vet appointment.
A few months later and one of the boy kittens had knocked up his mom. Then some awesome sibling cat incest took place, so there were multiple pregnant females in the house.
This, in addition to a bad attitude about the whole situation, plus some other bad behavior, got Sister #3 and her cats kicked out of the house. She got her first "big girl" apartment a few miles away from the family home, where she'd be free to smoke pot, keep a completely vegan kitchen, and be a crazy cat lady at age 20.
A few months later my dad got a frantic call from Sister #3. "Something's wrong with the new litter!", she said. He goes over there and found the place reeking of cat piss and cheap pot. She admitted that she never got any of them fixed, and now some of the kittens in the newest litter had some pretty horrible birth defects... organs on the outside of the body, and whatnot.
He made Sister #3 finally involve a vet, and most of the new litter were euthanized on the spot. Finally realizing that cat incest wasn't all fun and games with playful new kittens, Sister #3 got her shit together... at least in the cat department.
She's down to a "reasonable" number of fixed animals (although probably more than her lease allows), but she's still finds plenty of other ways to mess up.
posted by adamk at 11:02 PM on September 3, 2010
Sister #1 gave Sister #3 a female kitten as a surprise birthday present a few years ago, without consulting with the parental units. Dad said "OK, you can keep her, but you're in charge of all of her care. Step one: get her spayed."
Sister #3, never being the most responsible sister (this award goes to Sister #2), neglected to get kitty spayed. A few months later kitty escaped from the house and spent a week "lost" out in the neighborhood. Eventually, kitty returned, and it became clear that she was preggers. She ended up giving birth to a few kittens shortly thereafter.
Dad was mad, and said "Grr, I'm angry! As soon as the new kittens are old enough, you need to get them all fixed, including the mother, and find homes for all of the new kittens".
Sister #3 gave away one or two of the kittens, and smoked a few bowls and forgot to make a vet appointment.
A few months later and one of the boy kittens had knocked up his mom. Then some awesome sibling cat incest took place, so there were multiple pregnant females in the house.
This, in addition to a bad attitude about the whole situation, plus some other bad behavior, got Sister #3 and her cats kicked out of the house. She got her first "big girl" apartment a few miles away from the family home, where she'd be free to smoke pot, keep a completely vegan kitchen, and be a crazy cat lady at age 20.
A few months later my dad got a frantic call from Sister #3. "Something's wrong with the new litter!", she said. He goes over there and found the place reeking of cat piss and cheap pot. She admitted that she never got any of them fixed, and now some of the kittens in the newest litter had some pretty horrible birth defects... organs on the outside of the body, and whatnot.
He made Sister #3 finally involve a vet, and most of the new litter were euthanized on the spot. Finally realizing that cat incest wasn't all fun and games with playful new kittens, Sister #3 got her shit together... at least in the cat department.
She's down to a "reasonable" number of fixed animals (although probably more than her lease allows), but she's still finds plenty of other ways to mess up.
posted by adamk at 11:02 PM on September 3, 2010
Two (and a half) points, one already partially made, but without numbers.
First, feral cats have an observed kitten mortality rate of around 75% in the best of conditions (plentiful food, few predators). Animals don't tend to waste energy on larger litters unless they need that many to guarantee replacement over time.
Second, feral cats have an average lifespan under two years. So a feral female may realistically only manage to pop out three or four litters in her life, even though she could theoretically have quadruple that.
And finally, I've seen nothing, ever, to support 60% females. I'd like to see where this "zach" obtained that number, because it makes a world of difference in the population growth (in practice, people can and do control the size of semi-feral colonies, such as barn-cats, by trapping, spaying, and releasing just a handful of females a year).
Now, if you start with one fertile male and one fertile female cat in your house, take care to minimize kitten mortality, and never spay or neuter (and Zeus help you get rid of the smell from that many Toms), you could actually see something approaching TFA's numbers.
posted by pla at 7:28 AM on September 4, 2010
First, feral cats have an observed kitten mortality rate of around 75% in the best of conditions (plentiful food, few predators). Animals don't tend to waste energy on larger litters unless they need that many to guarantee replacement over time.
Second, feral cats have an average lifespan under two years. So a feral female may realistically only manage to pop out three or four litters in her life, even though she could theoretically have quadruple that.
And finally, I've seen nothing, ever, to support 60% females. I'd like to see where this "zach" obtained that number, because it makes a world of difference in the population growth (in practice, people can and do control the size of semi-feral colonies, such as barn-cats, by trapping, spaying, and releasing just a handful of females a year).
Now, if you start with one fertile male and one fertile female cat in your house, take care to minimize kitten mortality, and never spay or neuter (and Zeus help you get rid of the smell from that many Toms), you could actually see something approaching TFA's numbers.
posted by pla at 7:28 AM on September 4, 2010
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posted by graventy at 10:23 AM on September 3, 2010 [7 favorites]